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Who Is Star Trek's Most Honorable Klingon?
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
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I did like the idea that Worf was the textbook Klingon because as a kid, all he learned about Klingon culture was actually from literal textbooks. That's why practically no other Klingons were as honourable as he was.
Excuse me, but we've talked about this - Martok is the bestest Klingon.
I'd say it's not even textbooks - it's more like...imagine if Jidaigeki films somehow existed in Edo period Japan, or Western films somehow existed during the late 19th century, and a transracial adoptee only had those as a reference point for the cultural heritage of their biological parents. He only had idealised fiction for reference.
@@Talisguy, I would say it was like all the eastern city folks during post civil war period imagined how the cowboys and native Americans were in west based on reading pop fiction and Buffalo Bill's Wild West show.
Yeah, you really get the sense that Worf is an honor geek to the point that it annoys other klingons.
Martok and General Chang are top dogs in my book. Erm, top targs? Whatever.
My favorite bit with Martok as it comes to Nog- after the loitering on the promenade incident? He never calls him Ferengi again- he always acknowledges him with a smile and calls him by his rank. Every time. The kid earned his respect with that little bit of being “very brave and very stupid.”
Nog was standing up to him just as Quark was standing up in the Great Hall before the High Council. And standing up to a superior foe with no chance of victory is honorable. At this moment Nog showed to Martok that Ferengi can be just as honorable as any Klingon.
A ripoff of Barney 5 standing up to the hillbillies selling fruit and veggies along the roadway. Wouldn't be surprised if Sisko was hiding behind something ready to save him.
I think Martok is made more honourable than Kor specially in Once More Unto the Breach where we learn that Kor denied Martok of becoming an officer because he was from the "Ketha lowlands" and that always stuck with me. Martok worked hard for everything he had
Yes! IIRC, Martok is the only non-aristocratic major Klingon character we get. Working class hero for the ultimate win.
Good point. We learned that Klingon commissioned officers had to have noble blood to gain acceptance into their military academy. Martok was perhaps one of the few, if only himself, who had this exception. These noble class Klingons are treated well from the time of birth and get special training and opportunities not available to the working class peons. I have a feeling many grow up as drunken party animals simply because they can... ship captaincy was essentially guaranteed to them regardless of their hard work. As an example, look at Martok's son Drex (he would be noble because of Sirella as the mother), he is a classic example.
shocked that Worf's abandonment of Alexander didn't knock him out of the running for most honorable, or even get a mention.
His behavior on Risa in "Let He Who is Without Sin" is pretty fucked up, too.
Oh, and how about the way he treats Ezri?
He also purposefully abandoned his mission to save the Cardassian informant who had valuable information that could've saved millions of Federation lives from the ongoing Dominion war. While I respected his choice to save his wife, true honor would have made him submit a letter of resignation from Starfleet after that deed was done and it was clear Starfleet was not his priority. Instead, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too... to me that disqualifies him entirely from further consideration of most honorable.
What about lobotomizing his brother without consent?
Resign while other Klingons are fighting for the Empire and risking their lives? That would be even more dishonorable to a Klingon
@@clarenceclayborne8943 total Nixon move.
No mention of Worf’s brother Kern? Seems to me that every action, every decision, every piece of advice he ever gave was from a place of honor foremost. From deferring to Worf as the older brother, even when he knew Worf’s decisions may not be the best, all the way to his asking Worf to kill him to restore his honor after being dishonored with his expulsion from the council due to Worf’s decisions. Kern oozed Klingon honor more than any other Klingon I can recall.
I don't know if I would call Kurn the most honorable, he is in the running though. But what I do know is he is absolutely on my short list of favorites.
Kern was great.
Props to Tony Todd
What about Korok Steve! The man took over an entire Borg vessel by himself in Unimatrix Zero. WHAT ABOUT KOROK! JUSTICE FOR KOROK!
Also he totally forgot that lawyer from Enterprise! I don't recall his name, but how was that man not honourable to the extreme!
@@tyrongkojy hell yes. He even refused to escape from Rura Penthe because he knew he couldn’t try and influence their culture if he was an outlaw. Sadly it seems he died in there because he didn’t manage to restore his society to valuing academia…
Yahaha! You found me!
Klingon Lawyer-Man (coming this fall to Paramount+) was still played by JG Hertzler. So I'm adding him to my vote for Martok.
@@tyrongkojy I totally agree. I was actually rly upset when he wouldn’t leave Rura Penthe with them
I gotta personally give it to Martok. I love Martok. We spent an entire season thinking we knew him; and HATING him. Then we get to meet the REAL Martok, and he's (as Klingons go) soft-spoken, humble and kind. He's one of the least toxic Klingons around.
Edited to add: HOLY JEEZUS THAT WHO'S ON FIRST BIT IS THE NERDIEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN
Martok Martok!
Let's give an honorable mention to the Klingon who acted as Captain Archer's advocate in Enterprise's season 2, episode 19: Judgment. Kolos, who allowed Archer to try and defend himself, even objecting to the dishonorable sentence and wound up in Rura-Penthe for a year as a result of his outburst.
Imagine if he had left the prison and joined the crew, how much more interesting that series would have been. Another missed opportunity!
I came down into the comments specifically to look for this. Glad I didn't have to scroll far. I'm so glad that Kolos essentially reminds the audience that personal Honor isn't only found in martial pursuits but also other fields like law and academia. The other Klingon lawyer we see Advocate Ch'pok from DS9 dishonors himself working to help frame worf for a crime he didn't commit but Kolos is willing to suffer and possibly die in Rura Penthe not for the sake of his own Honor because his very standing up for Archer is what does that already but to try and restore the Honor of the Klingon legal system and to make sure no other Klingons face the dishonorable treatment that they put onto him and Archer. It's sad to know though that Advocate Ch'pok proves (at least not 100%) Kolos does not succeed in his goal
One redeeming moment of Worf and his Romulan racism comes from Nemesis where he says simply "the Romulans fought with honour" and Riker replies "yes they did, Mr. Worf."
A fair point for Worf in Nemesis, saying the Romulans fought with honor when they were obliterated in about 0.68 seconds. Depsite the writers of Nemesis not knowing what to do with Worf, giving him throw away jokes and using catch phrases like "Fought with Honor...", it's a nice small character moment in an otherwise disappointing Trek movie.
A decent character moment, even if Nemesis is a disappointing movie.
@@ustrekkie92 The Scimitar was on a whole different league than the Sovereign class or the pair of Warbirds, they did what they could.
I can't believe you missed Dax!
Jadzia is so honourable, she fulfills the blood oaths and honour obligations of a decreased previous incarnation of herself.
Despite multiple times being offered the chance to avoid a presumed suicide mission, she kicks ass to prove she has enough of a warrior's heart to be permitted to throw her life away on a fools errand of vengeance.
Oh and she marries Worf. She has citizenship now right?
I think it’s insulting Worf doubted her place in Stovokor. Jadzia fulfilled a blood oath in the company of like 4 Dahar masters and found the sword of Kahless. If she were Klingon she’d be considered one of the most honorable women in the alpha quadrant.
Of all the souls I have known, hers was the most...Klingon... * *chokes back tears* *
She was a great Klingon, but kind of a horrible Trill host. I mean, was she trying to get Dax killed or what?
@@Everilid She died reaching for her phasor to fight Dukat, which to me means she died in honorable combat and earned her spot in Stovokor right there. I think the writers just threw that episode together to make everyone's grieving arcs more visually interesting.
@@coletteb.8889 I mean she got wounded in that fight but died on a operating table, I'm not sure that really counts towards Klingon Heaven. I feel like we've heard of that being not honorable before.
Steve has good taste in Klingons. However, Martok is most honorable given the ratio of honorable things he does realtive to his screen time. Also, Worf's failure as a parent reduces his stature by both Klingon and human standards.
It’s Martok. He came from very humble beginnings scratch and clawed his way to where he was. Nothing was given to him everything he got he earned. Meanwhile retaining his honor. Yes he had a few setbacks but still I think is Martok. K’Plaa!!
Martok. He endured his identity being defiled by a Changeling, to being a p.o.w. sustaining a grievous and shaming wound, to an ally and mentor to Worf, to eventually due to his bravery and honor become Klingon Chancellor.
Yes he stood in a field of corpses, however the battle was fierce, in that control center were Cardassians who sided with the Dominion. They would have killed them. A strong enemy defeated is honorable.
Yeah, I'll accept that its a bit callous and heartless, but that aint the question of the day. No dishonour here, he is celibrating victory not shaming the dead... Besides, what is the point of fictional races of non-human people if we can't let the war obsessed fighty dudes enjoy beating the power obbsessed evil dudes, thats just a tease!
I think they forgot that drinking and laughter is how Klingons show respect for the dead.
Humans bow their heads and show solemnity, the Klingons tell jokes and drink, but both are respecting the dead in their own way.
Eh.. he raised a pos son. He lied on more than one occasion. I say Gowran was a Klingons Klingon. Even as head of the council he was instantly willing to jump up and fight any challenger to the death on the spot.
@@joshythehand2960 How Is purposely sabotaging a war of survival over quite literally petty jealously honorable?
@@DoctorProph3tYou forgot (or didn't know) that many Irish celebrate their dead at a wake by drinking and telling stories about them, so in that way, the Irish are more like Klingons than the rest of us humans.
Note that I'm not Irish, but I've had Irish-American friends, so I know a little about their customs.
TOS Klingons - sneaky, underhanded and dishonourable.
TOS Romulans - proud, direct and honourable.
They kinda got swapped around by the movies.
The TOS Klingons were very capitalistic, too. Roddenberry's idea that the Ferengi were the "new Klingons" makes a bit more sense now.
Outside of Worf my 'vote' would go for Gorkon for most honorable Klingon. Simply because we see that his desire for peace was not that of some sleazy politician doing what he thought was the most politically useful thing at that moment, but a genuine philosophy that he held. I imagine a big part of 'honor' would be standing for one's own convictions, even in the face of massive pressure to give in. A good example of this being when Nog stood up for himself to Martok and from then on, Martok had a lot more respect for him. We see the same thing in Gorkon, especially in various expanded universe materials. He really did hold true to what he believed in and never really wavered, even dying for his beliefs, and with his final breath, asking Kirk, a man who he could see hated his very guts, not to 'let it end this way'.
It also helps that he was played by the great David Warner.
Steve, would you consider doing a sequel to this great video about "Who is the Most Honorable Romulan?" Ever since "Balance of Terror", the Romulans were shown to have truly noble members in their ranks despite their treacherous reputation. Episodes like TNG's "The Defector" or VGR's "Eye of the Needle" have also shown that as well. (P.S. great work as always, sir!)
@Liver Success -- Sure, he's "honourable" in the sense he sacrificed himself supporting a clandestine mass-defection operation. But in that same episode it's noted that Romulans already have a tendency to take bold, suicidal action in desperate situations.
In my opinion, "the most honorable Romulan" is someone who lives to the end of the episode and accepts the full consequences of their actions. And that kinda thins the field a bit.
I'm going with T'Rul from the DS9 2-parter "The Search". She's probably a Tal Shiar spy, but she's also a capable technical officer, defends the Defiant from a Jem Hadar boarding party and speaks up for Romulan interests during what turns out to be a fake peace treaty negotiation.
Then we never see her again. As far as we know, she might still be down there maintaining her lonely vigil over the cloaking device to this very day...
I was born in Argentina, but my family had to escape to Italy during the military dictatorship in the 70s.
Since it was a traumathic event (mostly for my parents, I was 7), I grew up with histories of how Argentina was a beautifull country, and when I was 25 I returned to live here.
I discovered that the it was a regular country, like every other.
I always identified with Worf, because I think that he grew up in a similar way, with an idealized version of his people and develped an idealized version of their qualities.
When he had to interact again with other klingons, I think the show presents that nobody follows the code of honor it at his level.
Kolos from the Enterprise episode Judgement deserves an honorable mention. He won over two hundred cases as a Klingon public defendant. He had a dry spell when the military took over the courts, but after a Jonathan Archer pep talk he was willing to go to prison for a year so he could keep defending people.
"Kahless wept and the seas swelled with his tears"? But, Klingons have no tear ducts...
Also they have red blood. Sometimes.
@@sarahscott5305 Just for funsies
Literally "took a leak" it didn't say it came specifically from his eyes
Answer: Azetbur (from Star Trek VI) - daughter of Gorkon, and the new chancellor of the Klingon Empire.
Gorkon opened the peace talks between the Klingons and the Federation, but in the wake of his assassination, it was Azetbur who had to do the extremely difficult work of pushing that peace treaty across the finish line.
In the immediate aftermath of her own father being killed by Starfleet officers, it would have been easy for her (or any other person thrust into the Chancellor's position) to stall or end the process altogether. She had the wisdom and courage to not only set aside her own intense feelings of loss and anger over her father's murder to continue the pursuit of peace, but to face down and dismiss the now vehement opposition to such a treaty from all of her own closest advisors......including some of whom were actively working to assassinate her father and overthrow her for this course.
She was (understandably) furious with Kirk for his role of responsibility in the death of her father......and yet, although it is not explicitly said, I believe she is the one who pushed to have Kirk & McCoy's death sentence commuted at their trial. She set aside her own desire for vengeance/justice against the person she believed responsible for her father's death so she could extend an olive branch to the Federation.
And when the truth of the plot to destroy the peace process was revealed, she looked right in the eyes of the person whom she had previously believed was responsible for her father's murder, accepted the new information readily, and made peace with both Kirk and the Federation.
She stood tough against opposition forces on all sides, stared down all challenges to her rule from within her own government, and took the peace process her father had started with her people's major political rival--people who had assassinated her father--and made it her own and built an alliance that lasted over 70 years. THAT is some fucking honor.
I stan DS9 Kor, but let’s not forget he was a bougie fuck and denied Martock a military career because of Martock’s low birth. Also, for more honour points, Martock’s struggle against a rigged system, perseverance and ultimate success makes him a working class hero of whom Sean O’Brien would be proud.
I think like almost all Star Trek fans, I love Worf. But my favorite Klingon is Martok, the non shape shifter one of course. He immediately shows Nog and Quark the respect they deserve when they show they deserve it. He never took the good day to die thing to throw away lives of people he commands. He says he's not a politician but he's a great one, showing modesty you never really see of Klingons. He's a great character
My partner and I love the Klingon space opera episodes, and whenever Gowron would come up I would always belt out in my best Worf baritone, “GOWRON HAS *NO* HONOR!” Never fails to make her laugh.
I just absolutely love Kor completely and unequivocally accepting his old friend Curzon is now his old friend Jadzia.
Even 90's Era Klingons have more decency and honor than so many on earth today.
Martok is the total package imo. He's deeply honorable but also a practical/sensible guy, proud of his people yet acknowledges the strengths of non-Klingons, fights for the Empire but isn't a fanatic, and loves a good fight but disdains picking on the weak. And to top it off, like all the best Klingons, he's just incredibly fun to watch.
What sells me from the other Klingons is that he was not high-born, had not a drop of noble blood. The way he grew up was tough as he could not associate himself with the ruling class that everyone else is talking about. Had to work around that through difficult times.
Dorf: Worf's abnormally short, golf - playing Klingon uncle
Ezri straight up calls Worf "The most honorable and decent man that I have ever met." And that's eight lifetimes of meeting people!
I wouldn't take it as a literal. This took place still early on for Ezri and was way before when they shacked up during the Breen capture. There was likely an intent upon Ezri to butter up Worf so he would have feelings for her.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Ezri saying that is in the Gowron killing episode which is after the imprisonment on Cardassia
I don't think it was on screen in Sons & Daughters, but I remember a speech from the novelisation where Martok is giving Worf advice about Alexander. I'll just find the book and post the passage here.
"Marry your woman and train your son. Embrace them both as part of your private world. Let them know they are part of each other through you. Pull down the fences between you. A wedding is just a wedding, Worf, not a state occasion. You fret too much about details. You embrace tradition franticly, but you forget why we have traditions. Not for the sake of having tradition, certainly. Even if all tradition is thrown into the warp core, when all is over, you will be married and Jadzia will be one of my house. And your son, if he wishes, will be one of my house too. He will grow up, Worf. He will change. Time works on a young man. You want him to change in the next ten minutes. Forget that! You did not grow up in a day. I did not grow up in a day. Why do you expect your son to come here and grow up today?"
Worf glared at him for several seconds. "Is that what I do?"
Martok leaned forward with his elbows on the desk. "My friend, you are a manufactured Klingon. You were raised by humans who tried to give you an idea of being Klingon, but it was a human idea of what Klingons are. They tried, I never deny that they tried, but they were still humans looking inward from afar. This is why you struggle and why you cling to details of tradition too much. There is no mold for behaviour that comes in a bottle and has 'Klingon' stamped upon the label and which will sour if not refrigerated. Alexander was raised the same way. Among humans, with a sense of unbidden guilt that he is not Klingon enough. Perhaps it is not you he resents, but being too much like you. I don't know... I'm no ship's counsellor"
(there's a bit more where he explains that Alexander had transferred from one ship after another to be closer to Worf, and tells Worf to bond with Alexander while teaching him, but the important part for this video was the difference between what Worf thinks being a Klingon means and what those raised as Klingons think it means)
Incredibly good speech!
The entire Klingon race is the greatest antihero in SF history.
That Dan Crenshaw bit is a real zinger.
I love Steve's impressions of the characters in these videos; his characters are so petty and fun.
Worf saving Dax was a starfleet fail. Why would they send a husband and wife on such an important mission where there is a high chance of injury.?
Good point. Didn't like that episode.
Yeah, that should be the second line in the Space HR manual, right after "No facsimiles of your coworkers in the Holodeck ffs!"
With the pessimistic understanding that honor in a warrior context refers to upholding established power systems, my vote goes to Martok. He tows the line without complaint. He is popular among the warrior class. He continues to obey Gowron even knowing Gowron is squandering troops and resources in a vendetta against him, because Gowron is privileged, and it is the duty of the warrior class to make sure he stays that way.
Steve, I can't believe you skipped Ch'Pok, Kilngon Lawyer.
Fighting for his clients,
wearing sexy miniskirts
and being self-realint
Single Klingon Lawyer!
I disqualify Warf for choosing to abandon his son. He only redeems that relationship because Martok insists and Jadzia pushes him that way. To me Martok was the most honorable.
Agree. Martok hands down.
While not directly related to the topic there is one thing about Kor I really loved. Especially in the last few years as topic of transgender individuals has been increasingly public. When he meets Jadiza the first time.
Kor: "Kurzon, my old friend!"
Dax: "I'm Jadzia now."
Kor: "Jadzia, my old friend!"
Having a friend who dealt with dead-naming a lot in the last few years this was a heartwarming moment.
If we're going Berman-era, then working-class hero Martok would probably be my vote. He has the advantage of age, experience, and wisdom over Worf's idealized version of Klingoness and his naive frustration with Alexander and Dax. Worf would have benefitted from having Martok around more to help him navigate marriage and fatherhood.
If we're including current-era, then Voq and L'Rell would be contenders in competition with Martok, considering they have in common with Martok that they were both highly underestimated by most every other Klingon and made ultimate sacrifices for their cause.
If we're looking at aggregate honor then Tony Todd might be the most honorable Klingon(s) having played a number of different guest characters throughout the years
Who else did he play besides old Jake?
Yes. Kurn should have made the list.
I'm glad you brought up Chancellor Gorkon. As I was watching this, I recalled how awesome he was in ST6; there is nothing more honorable than setting aside hate to work together in saving your people.
Side note - regarding "Barge of the Dead", I completely believe that Neelix would be the tour guide in Hell (or Grethor in this case, if they existed).
Gorkon's daughter kept it together too, didn't she?
I've always been intrigued by the ST-VI character Brigadier Kerla, Military Advisor to Chancellor Gorkon. He had some great dialogue in that show, and always struck me as quite the honorable warrior, being very passionate and protective of the Chancellor, but not so blinded by the Klingon "Kill All Enemies" ethos that he was able to recognize that Dr. McCoy and Cpt Kirk beamed aboard Kronos One to try and help the situation. I wish we could have seen more of that character...(Kerla could have been an outstanding reoccurring presence in "Star Trek: Excelsior" had the powers that be had the sense to green light that show!)
Kerla is also the first Klingon we see in ST VI; after Praxis explodes and USS Excelsor is trying to ride out and recover from its energy wave, he's the one who sends out the rmessage from the Klingon High Command to decline assistance and to remind Starfleet to hold to their side of the Neutral Zone.
Captain Sulu - so much better thean TNG!
Dude, the Patty Duke homage killed me! With honor! 😂🤣😂🤣
"Experience Beej".
Weirdly enough that boardgame was probably my first experience with Star Trek, outside of pop culture references. I was at a camp, and got a chance to play the game.
That same camp I saw an episode of Deep Space 9, where Julian is tested by Section 31, and remembered it over a decade later when I watched the whole series on DVD.
11:39 thank goodness! I was starting to think I'd imagined that game. It used some ancient technology called veehaychess, whatever that is.
A relic of ancient times. I think i still have mine packed away somewhere.
Pouring one out for fallen enemy is the most honorable , but you do it down your throat for them, you do it on the ground for your alies.
I misread the title of this video and deadass didn't realize until 15 minutes in that you weren't talking about the most horrible Klingon.
Martok is my favourite klingon, probably. He is compassionate, honouable, intelligent, passionate and weary. A complex character with a smoldering fire in his heart and refusing to go out.
He is interesting like few klingons are allowed to be. And more interesting than Worf ever was.
"Does anyone else remember when the Romulans were the honourable ones obsessed with fair play even in the most dire of circumstances and the Klingons were the sneaky bastards you couldn't turn your backs on? I do and I really fucking miss those days"- Captain Mac Calhoun- USS Excalibur re-launch party.
How could you not mention K'Ehleyr? She called out Duras and lost her life over it. She didn’t give a crap about Worf’s discommendation, trying to take the marital oath with him anyway because she wants her son to know his father.
Btw, we almost named our cat after her, cuz she has a long ridge of fur down her back that looks like Klingon ridges. I was outvoted, she is named Cosette. I love Les Mis and that name so it’s all good 🥰
I wish I could remember the name of the novel that suggested that the dagger the clerics on Boreth used to get Kahless' DNA actually belonged to a friend of his.
They should have had the Kahless clone show up on DS9.
It's actually called Kahless written by Jan Michael Friedman. One of my favorite novels period.
Grilka? the Duras sisters? Sirella? Mara? -can't help noticing a theme as to the notable characters in your list ;P
Personally, I honored Grilka by naming my refrigerator after her.
Grilka for the simple fact that she's ex wife goals, She's super nice to Quark and she doesn't bleed him dry on alimoney if that's not honorable then shit I don't know what is?
Respectfully disagree. Martok is the most honorable and basically the perfect Klingon.
Worf is basically a Klingon cosplayer. He is very human in a lot of the ways he thinks and acts and he only understands Klingon honor as a subject of outsider study. It is like a person who was raised Christian in the USA reading some books about Buddhism and starting to practice it. Yes they might have a good understanding of the tenants of Buddhism but they will never have all the cultural aspects of Buddhism. In many ways they won't ever be seen as a "real"Buddhist in a similar way to how Worf is often not seen as a "real" Klingon.
Martok is a product of the culture and still rose above the dishonorable aspects of the culture to epitomize Klingon honor.
Great video :)
Whats interesting is James Avery, aka Uncle Phil from The Fresh Prince Of Bel Air, was the runner up to play Worf if MIchale Dorn had declined. Still fun he got to play a Klingon in Enterprise's klingon augment arc.
The question is already answered in Star Trek...
Ezri Dax: "Worf, you are the most honorable and decent man I have ever met and if you're willing to accept men like Gowron, then what hope is there for the Empire?"
Came to say just that. Dax understood Klingons as best as any starfleet officers through Kurzon and Jadzia. And she found Worf to be the most honorable. Certainly that may not make Worf the most honorable Klingon ever, but he has to be up there!
Not that he's even in the running for most honorable, but how could you have omitted Commander Kruge!? Such glorious ham-to-ham combat with Captain Kirk in "The Search for Spock" cannot and should not be overlooked.
Commander Worf is by far the most "honorable" Klingon. Honor is what this vid is all about and like Steve has mentioned Kahlas was talked about alot but Worf is the one we saw was most honorable. In DS9 when Ezri woke him up about the Klingon Empire dying, mainly because it had no honor, he challenges Chancellor Gowron and kills him but does not accept his right to become Chancellor of the Empire. He honorable gave the Chancellorship to Martok and at the end of the DS9 series Worf agrees to be at Martok's side because of honor.
@@jakecook2375 I suspect you missed the point of my comment. I am not suggesting or even outright saying that Kruge is more honorable than Worf; I will even go so far as to say he was completely lacking in honor.
I simply felt that omitting him from the video was a "crime", given how wonderful the character is.
@@mkang8782 I can see why Steve gave a brief reference to Chang, but not to Kruge, given the subject of the video; in that twisted Klingon way, I'm sure that Chang felt that he was being honorable in his actions in assassinating Gorkon to keep Starfleet-Klingon relations adversarial, whereas Kruge was a right bastard more interested in obtaining Genesis for his own power and killing those who stood in his way.
@@talon262 my take on Steve's inclusion of Chang wasn't that he was honorable, but that he was his favorite Klingon.
Let's face it, Plummer was to the scenery as the Doomsday Machine was to planets. I mean that as a compliment. The others mentioned in the video are wonderful, to be sure, but Plummer/Chang was magnificent.
I misread it as 'most ADORABLE Klingon'
Sir... The fortune cookie bit was the chef's kiss. Well done!
My only hope for Picard season three is that we see Worf as Captain of the Enterprise.
My favorite moment of Worf being honorable is also my favorite moment for Ezri Dax (a character who had an impossible task of replacing Jadzia and was never written all that well).
"Ezri Dax: I think that the situation with Gowron is a symptom of a bigger problem. The Klingon Empire is dying. And I think it deserves to die.
Worf: You are right. I do not like it.
Ezri Dax: Don’t get me wrong, I’m very touched that you still consider me to be a member of the House of Martok, but I tend to look at the Empire with a little more scepticism than Curzon or Jadzia did. I see a society that is in deep denial about itself. We’re talking about a warrior culture that prides itself on maintaining centuries old traditions of honour and integrity, but in reality it’s willing to accept corruption at the highest levels.
Worf: You are overstating your case.
Ezri Dax: Am I? Who was the last leader of the High Council that you respected? Has there even been one? And how many times have you had to cover up the crimes of Klingon leaders because you were told it was for the good of the Empire? I know this sounds harsh, but the truth is, you have been willing to accept a government that you know is corrupt. Gowron’s just the latest example. Worf, you are the most honourable and decent man I’ve ever met, and if you’re willing to tolerate men like Gowron, then what hope is there for the Empire?"
Worf grew up idolizing Klingon culture. Being the only Klingon kid, he faced racism and prejudice from his peers (really also love the speech he gives explaining his childhood to Jadzia). He felt that he had to embrace being Klingon. For him to put that aside and listen to Ezri is a moment where he puts honor above his own beliefs.
Martok is by far my favorite Klingon. I love that guy.
I'd always assumed the Klingon tyrant was a tyrant in the Classical Greek sense, not necessarily a terrible oppressive ruler just one who took over outside of the constitutional means of acquiring power.
There is obviously still an argument for overthrowing someone who does that being inherently good but not the same uncontroversial argument.
Worf’s actions in “Let he who is without sin” complete negate his honor.
Worf: That is a prejudiced, xenophobic view.
Martok: We are Klingons, Worf!
Another point for Martok: He was able to drink to the heroic death of Kor despite having a deep personal hatred of the man.
Finally made it early to one of these! Love your stuff Steve!
omfg the callout to the VHS Board Game. I thought I couldn't love this channel more.
Worf is the ultimate klingon! He represents what a klingon should be and is. No other is like him.
That little Simpsons reference toward the end of the video was perfection.
Martok knew Gowron was sending him on suicide missions and he went anyway. He also survived and took Gowron's place. And not by force, either.
I dunno, Worf saves his wife by sacrificing that spy’s life. Not saying I wouldn’t have done the exact same thing, but it complicates the honorable-ness of it a bit, no?
Worf on TNG. He was a paragon of virtue and and extoller of wisdom. He's extremely quotable with his takes on what a warrior is and isn't. ("A true warrior does such and such." "Warriors do not do such and such...") He's not ego driven. He walks his talk when it comes to honor. He's loyal even when he's angry enough to kill you where you stand (maybe that only works for Captain Picard). He's generally a good guy. So I'm going with TNG-Worf. A lot of those good things about Worf are jettisoned in DS9 to make him more "edgy". (Hello, "Sword of Kahless", "Looking par'Mach in All the Wrong Places", "Change of Heart" and a lot of other episodes.) So, TNG-Worf all the way with Martok a hair behind him.
He's all about honor and family and death before dishonor...but struggles to even badly parent. Relatable
Word could be a serious asshole like when he was Data’s first officer. I did like that episode because it showed how friends could disagree and stay friends. Also Worf was so unyielding. He always had to be forced to see the bigger picture. Was he a good person? Yes, definitely. Did he feel like he was holding on to a romanticized image of being a Klingon? Also yes. Now please understand after Sisko, Worf is my all time favorite character. It took my a long while to be a little more objective about him.
Is it really jettisoned? They kept his unflinching pursuit of honor and preserved and extended a lot of the fun little moments for his character. I don't think he got more edgy as much as he just got more.
@@Oonagh72
Worf is adorable, and an existential hero into the bargain.
Kor, Kang and Kololf will always be a tripple threat. It was great to see them in DS9
One of your best videos. The excellent comedic sensibility made me howl with laughter on a few occasions. And a bunch of fine points, well made. As usual.
The Most Honorable Klingon would be the one who could have shown up in TNG's S1 episode "Code of Honor", but didn't; WORF! Because that episode was total horrible, and Worf deciding he wasn't going to show up at all in that episode was probably the most honorable thing he could have done, because... *points at the episode*
Once the Romulan says he wants to refuse treatment... that's it. It's out of Worf's hands sure. It's out of Crusher's hands as well, unless she's going to break that oath, again... oh, well I guess she doesn't really care about her patient's autonomy.
If you could, best lawyer/trial episodes...Drumhead, Measure of A Man, the one where Worf fires on the ship without identifying it correctly.
Rules Of Engagement.
One of my favourites from season four and the best trial episode in the franchise!
(Suck it, Measure Of A Man)
You forgot the most honorable klingon of all.... the guy that runs the klingon restaurant on ds9!
"Can't be dishonorable if you've lost an eye in battle"
LOL 😆
I don't think we ever found out if it was Duras or Gowron who poisoned K'mpec...
Yeah, Duras PROBABLY did it based on his shady Romulan contacts, and Ronald D Moore said as much. But Gowron was always described as a politician, and schemed to have Martok killed. It's in-character, both actions are patient and sly, and Gowron had much to gain by playing on K'mpec and Picard's distrust of Duras in order for Picard to make Gowron chancellor. Unless I credit Gowron with greater foresight than he deserves?
God I love the Klingon politicking episodes.
A species who combine the out and out warrior aspects of vikings, right down to their concepts of what the afterlife will be for them based on how they lived and died, with
the personal and family honour systems of the samurai is extremely fascinating.
For some reason STNG and DS-9 portray Klingons akin to samurais, when Klingon culture is closer to Vikings. However my favorite Klingon has to be General Martok and Chancellor Gowron. Worf would be at the bottom of the list along with the TOS klingons.
Hey, Steve, I think you left someone out: K'ehleyr. Though she only has two appearances, we know a lot of things about her that make her mentionable in this topic. She didn't buy into the dogmatic sense of Klingon honor, yet still lived in an honorable way in spite cultural pressures (namely Worf). She was an impartial and fair ambassador between the Empire and the Federation. She went full single mom, because she didn't need no baby-daddy messing in her business (namely Worf). She even sleuthed out Duras' scheme and was willing to stand and die instead lying about what she knew was true and right, showing more honor in those few scenes than the entire Klingon council throughout TNG altogether. She stood up for herself and the people she cared about even if it meant her end. Her last breath and final act was to put her son's hand into his fathers, so they can unite in her passing. Even though that last part didn't work out because Worf dropped the ball down a well a sealed the opening with concrete, but that's not on K'ehleyr. She honored herself and those around her without sticking to a rigid Klingon idea of honor, and I think that's pretty cool. I'd call her worthy of Sto-vo-kor any day.
What, no mention of the line "The Romulans fought with Honor"?I was kinda waiting for that!
I remember in TNG it was said that being captured in general was one of the greatest dishonor for a Klingon however in DS9 it was said not if they can still fight & escape. is that a retcon or what?
It is a retcon, but by way of “you Federation types have been slightly misinformed”. Just like the “you can kill your superior whenever to rank up” to “you can only _challenge_ your superior to a duel for certain infractions, and only your _direct_ superior. A navy wouldn’t work otherwise!” retcon.
Another small but great Worf moment is when in Star Trek Nemesis he said, "The Romulus fought with honor." That was a huge deal if you know his history.
K’Ehleyr!!! Going against the grain until the end.
I love how Star Trek has such wildly different humanoid races from very different planets across the galaxy, and all the important ones are able to produce children together.
I'm a huge fan of Kurn. He might not have been completely honourable but he backed down when Worf asked him not to kill Toral. And he's an excellent captain.
I haven't seen a lot of TOS media, but is Grokon bleeding neon pink? It would be funny if the whole reason Klingons became super serious warriors is because the Hur'q used to tease them about their silly clown blood.
I read somewhere that they made Klingon blood pink in Star Trek 6 - The Undiscovered Country to avoid the film being given too high an age rating
Only in one episode, originally, but Kang seemed like a stand up guy in the end.
Since it's never stated outright, in my headcanon, Gowron is the one who poisoned K'mpec. I think it makes the situation a bit more interesting.
I dunno. Say what you want about him, but that never seemed his way.
Yes, I am in agreement. Gowron poisoned K'mpec but it was Duras that planted the bomb. The idea is that Gowron was an outsider and yet had relevance to advance forward. He could not afford to sit around and wait for K'mpec's natural death which easily could be decades. As an outsider, he had to constantly validate to the Klingon public why he was worthy. He couldn't wait decades to have the same momentum. It was now or never. Hence, he schemed and plotted to figure this out. Duras had no reason to eliminate K'mpec... his family had a full seat on the council and the Worf conspiracy was backed by K'mpec... hence, Duras could get much of his way through to K'mpec. The bomb, on the other hand, was planted by Duras to kill Gowron as Duras knew he had little chance in honorable combat to win against Gowron.
Whenever I look at Klingon foreheads I can’t not see Turtle Shells.
You miss when Worf gives Picard the out "If you were to make it an order." for saving the Romulan. It's not just 'screw him', it's 'I can't be judged as not wanting them screwed'.
Video unseen: Martok, because he treated my Real-Life community well, while serving as a Councilman. I'm sure there are other honorable Klingons, but Martok was a real boon to my community, at the time. Video seen: As usual, I come away believing that you should just be allowed to write Start Trek dialogue. You didn't change my mind about Martok, though.
I appreciate the random tangent diving into the VCR board game. I played the shit out of that back in the 90s, and just recently reacquired a complete copy to subject my friends to.
You open a fortune cookie on a Trek-themed video, it had better say "The higher, the fewer!"
Worf should have challenged Duras to combat instead of discommendation. If he had won then no Klingon could argue about it and everything would have been sorted.
I feel like Gowron's thing with Martok in the final Deep Space Nine was kind of a disservice to his character...
Gowron is my favorite Klingon, Chancellor Crazy Eyes is the best
I would agree with this except for Let He Who Is Without Sin (where he and Jadzia visit Risa), because I cannot stand him in that episode. He's close-minded and uptight, and caps that off with joining a domestic terrorism group focused on forcing their ethical framework on an entire planet, in service to forcing that framework on the whole Federation. He's also really mean and disrespectful to Jadzia for much of the episode. I don't think it makes him a bad person, it makes him a complicated one. And that's not super compatible with the single focus of putting honor above all else.
I think in the end of “Once More unto the Breach” makes Kor very honorable!!!
“ long love the empire”