All this being said, I hope it doesn't dissuade anyone from following their dreams if that's what they really want to do. There's a reason I still do it even after all these years. Can't forget about all the people I've met, all the great music I get to play, all the smiles, good times, experiences, and timeless memories. This video is really just a reality check for anyone who thinks you're gonna get rich quick playing live music. I think reality checks are important now and then. ;)
While it's been MANY years since I played in a band, and even longer since I played any live gigs, it's sad that they are still paying around $100 per band member per night. Anyway, wanted to weigh in on this and say thank you for posting this. Often times, people look at what you do from the outside and think you are rich because of it, but don't realize all the hidden costs. I run a small computer shop, and people think I make a killing charging $100 per hour for on-site work. Then I run thru a quick list - I have to pay my front desk girl, my insurance, I don't charge for travel time, building expenses (electric, loan payment, credit card bills associated with purchasing equipment, sales tax, etc.), and when you break it all down, my front desk girl makes more per hour. That being said, I don't regret it, I choose it, because I love what I do, and am very grateful for it. Edit : Typo corrections.
I love this video! My last gig - I made -93 and that was just drinks for me and my friends and gas. We didn't realize there was a 5 finger death punch concert in Tampa that night so nobody was at the club (The Brass Mug). I wouldn't have traded it for the world though because it turned out to be the last time I got to play with my bandmate "Doc" before he passed away.. That night I figured out that I'll never get rich doing this, but the friendships and the fun still make it worth it! Keep on Rockin' man! I love what you do here!
This was an "epiphany" for me about 10-15yrs ago. I started to phase out band gigs in favor of acoustic solo. While I'll still do a band gig every once in a blue moon to scratch the itch, all I do now is 3-4hr acoustic solo gigs (usually with two 20-30 minute breaks depending on the venue). I get paid a guarantee from the venues ranging from $150 (minimum I'll play for on a weekday), up to $300 per 3-4hr show. My setup/teardown is comfortably 20 minutes, I'm almost always home by 11pm, and I no longer have a day job… I do this full time. I average 2-5 gigs a week but I could easily do as many as I could handle (14?) if I were so motivated. If I were young and still playing all originals and still had like… dreams and stuff? Yeah, I'd probably laugh at me.
This. I've been gigging with bands for decades. Sporadic solo work. But just today I booked a gig, solo, at a winery for tomorrow. $300 for 3 hours.! I'm going to phase out my band work and get the solo work going.
I've been in an acoustic duo for years after playing in a ton of bands and this is easily the most money for the least heavy lifting. Low gear requirements, early set times (6pm-9pm most days), and short distances to travel. Money from wine bars, restaurants, and especially private gigs are light years ahead of my full band gigs. Also helps if you can learn to sing a few on your own and provide some harmony as that makes you more valuable than just playing leads.
This is a great video. I just retired from doing gigs after 50 years of solid weekend gigs in a number of bands over decades. I did it because I loved playing to an audience. Sitting at home playing for my own amusement never worked for me. Your calculations are correct. Most nights in my neck of woods, $100 a person is about right for a four piece band. $125 dollars apiece for a trio. Play because you love to do it but these days it's extremely tough to do it as a full time job. We all have bills to pay.
Time is money. Thanks for the intimate peek behind the curtain of your life as a professional musician. The love of performing makes that $2.08 an hour bearable as it's really about getting to perform live.
In my youth I played gigs with a string-quartet and when we told potential customers, what we are charging for a playing time of 30 minutes they were often shocked. But what they all forget is the rehearsal time of the ensemble, the practicing time alone at home and so much more. I remember one saying "Why you are charging money to play? Music is fun, so you get enough from the fun to play live"
I play the bagpipes and people often ask me to play at weddings or ceremonies and when I say its $150, their mouth just hangs open in shock because for some reason, they thought I was going to get dressed up like an idiot and spent my Saturday afternoon at someone's wedding that I dont know and perform for free. Then I ask them how the DJ is charging. Nobody expects the DJ to come for free.
I LOVE the honesty and transparency of this - in some scenarios, $82 for each member is actually a lot. I personally find it absurd that clubs get away with hiring TALENT and a job they can't do themselves and take a piss on us whenever possible. This is playing the Philly "live" scene in general, especially if you are in an original band. It's so fucking depressing - almost feels not worth it and you end up playing to possible 5 people depending on the crowd. I also find ridiculous that venues expect you to do all the marketing when THEY are the venue and have all that power! They are basically asking and getting practically free entertainment - it's such a crapshoot. Real talent float through those stages and scenarios too that will never get heard by the masses. Meanwhile, the music industry gatekeepers are creating the next W.A.P. and elevating celebrities with microphones....
It is amazing and highly depressing that that happens in the U.S. Portuguese reality is very similar! But this is a very small country... A GREAT video and very usefull to all the ones that want to embrace music! Greetings from Portugal!🤘🤩
With the bands, I play with we've basically come up with a minimum price to do a show. If we can't hit that number we just pass. The only exception is if there's an exposure aspect that will help land a bigger gig. It's good to do the math like you just did sometimes as a reality check. ✌🏻
Great video! I’m in two local bands and we throw all our earnings into a band fund. That way each band stays self sufficient and we’re never coming out of pocket for things like merch and recording.
Thanks for your very realistic picture of how much club gigging pays. It is amazing that the pay for a club gig hasn’t changed in 50 years. I’m an old guy who has been playing gigs for the past 50 years. Each member of my 3 piece band makes between $80 and $100 when playing a club, which doesn’t include tips. Private gigs pay a lot more. I also do a single and charge $100-$150. Needless to say, I got a day time job years ago when I realized how difficult it would be for me to live off of playing alone. Now that I’m retired, I try to play as much as possible and love it just as much as when I picked up my first guitar at 13.
I’m Brazil it’s very common to play in weddings, I’ve played a lot in churchs. Private events etc. never for less than 200. The most common is 400 per gig. Here in the USA. I’ve never played for less than 100. I had a gig in Ohio for 400. I live in Florida.
I played live shows for many years with different bands.And the thing is, money was never the priority, money was nice to get, because it meant that i could possibly get even with the money i spent on gear and such (I'm a drummer btw and i use a lot of cymbals, and they are like 300 each on average) Then at one point i got asked to join a ffdp tribute band, with this band we had management and we played quite some shows. During this time we actually got paid pretty decently compared to what i was used to. We were getting 125 per band member/per show to play around a 1 hour show. When i was in bands that did original material we almost never got paid, or we barely got paid. If you love music, and love playing live shows, then it's an amazing experience, it's very satisfying and a lot of fun to do. But it really isn't easy to make money, because if you're starting out you'll be playing smaller venues that depend on local bands and they pay them like 50 euros for a show or something, or they provide you with diner and some free drinks and that's pretty much it. So if you're just in it for the money then teaching or doing studio sessions might be a better route to take for you. If you're in it because you love playing live, then just don't expect to get rich from it and enjoy the experience instead. I was always happy to play shows, even if i didn't make any money doing it. It was already rewarding enough to see people have fun during the gig and have people come to you after the show to tell you they loved it and most importantly the playing itself feels really awesome to me, especially on a stage with good sound. At the end of the day when you're on your deathbed money doesn't mean a thing, but the experiences you had will be with you forever, and no one can take those away from you.
I am so glad you posted this video. You are spot on on every topic. Especially the $100. I am 71 years old I will play for $150 tonight tomorrow night and $75 on Saturday. I have over 4,000 songs in my repertoire probably 2000 in my head. How long do you think it took me to learn all of that. How long do you think it took me to build pedal board? But the most incredible part about it is how long do you think it took me to deal with audiences, club owners, and fastidious wedding planners? We don't do this for the money. But we have to make money somehow to do it. Bravo fellow musician bravo
Cool video. Mike's story time's are always good value - makes me live vicariously as if I had stuck with guitar and socialising, and interacting with the world - and NOT became an alcoholic hermit! 😌
$82!! Damn,I need to stop playing punk music. (I've made way more of selling our t-shirts than from my music.) Thanks for the video, love your channel.
Congrats on 798k Subscribers! Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. Such a good book, i'm only part way into it but it's mind blowing. This is great, a real breakdown of what goes into playing a gig from a financial side of it, a little depressing for sure but definitely educating.
The math works out much worse also if you play in an original band, at least for the vast majority of us. Sure, the ceiling is higher, but most of us are putting money into our bands constantly with the long term goal of the band funding itself, and that in and of itself is a level of success that most original bands do not ever reach. As an original band, to make money you have to play shows and sell merch. Some genres you can enough attention purely from the internet to generate a meaningful amount of income, but many you can't. So, you have to get out on the road, tour, play festival shows. Early on, you're incredibly lucky if you break even. The more people in your band, the more difficult this becomes, as you have more people to feed. Meanwhile, this isn't your source of income, and when you go on tour you aren't working your normal job. This continues just on a larger and larger scale as your band grows until maybe, hopefully, you start breaking even, and then much farther after that maybe you can start paying yourselves. Basically, being in an original band from the early stages HAS to be a labor of love, because that is really the only incentive to do it. To illustrate, my band is flying across the country this summer for a festival. We're a 4 piece, but are looking for a 5th. Flights are $650 each, we'll be there for 4 days, we'll have to rent a car, probably pay for extra carry on bags or checked bags on the flight for our instruments and merch. We'll be fed the day we play, but aside from that we're on our own. We have to pay for accommodations or find someone to stay with. All told, we're probably looking at ~$1000 in costs per person, if not more. The gig pays $300, so we get that and whatever we make on merch. The fest is sold out, but it's small and focuses on our little niche. It's a great opportunity for us to network, play with more established bands and get in front of an engaged and receptive audience. But, all told we're likely collectively paying upwards of $2500 for the privilege.
Toured with a signed band. Sponsored by Jager as well. Don't forget the mechanic fees! At some points, you might waste all your nights sales on your vehicle and have nothing left for gas. So yep. That's that. Thankfully for the guys we did meet, did offer us to crash on their buses. Local gigs to us was more of a hassle than touring. Just due to the fact that there's too much waiting. Touring you pull up, play, walk out, next city. It's not all bad though! Bigger opportunities to hang with your fans more
Some advice from a touring musician: 1. buy a big box of good quality strings. Same for any other stuff that doesn't last long, a box of picks, etc. In my case I use Fender Bullets -- they don't suffer from the ball end coming off like other strings. I change my strings once per every 4 shows. Some people swear by coated strings, they are really nice, but still have that ball end, which I don't recommend... plus they feel unfamiliar. 2. Invest in locking tuners -- strings are easier to change and no need to stretch them / break them in as much as with traditional tuners. I can safely change my strings the night before a show, and the strings will be sufficiently stretched in time for a sound check. 3. Pedalboards are nice, but a processor is more convenient -- less stuff to worry about regarding cables going bad. Have a backup processor, just in case, something like an HX Stomp or Pod Go. Also with a processor, you have less things to bring to the gig, saving your back. Leave your tube amp at home, and just bring a powered speaker or a power amp + speaker cab.... Or simply use whatever amp they have at the venue: either run into the effects loop or use it as a glorified speaker cab. So in short, I can get to a local gig with 2 guitars, 2 processors and use whatever amp they have at the gig for stage volume. No need for a truck to get my stuff to the gig: if I get some help from my band members, I can easily take a train with an extra person to bring all my other things. Have lots of spare cables/strings at all times, so you don't need to order them on such a short notice. And if you have good strings, as I mentioned, you don't need to change them before every show. If you are worried about breaking strings, address where strings typically break: saddles / ball end. So if you don't have a ball end, the bullet already solves 90% of the string breakages for you... now make sure your saddles are smooth, and apply Nut Sauce to them so there is even less friction.
That's without factoring all the time learning as well. Even when it's not the song material at hand, you're still practicing and keeping your muscles in shape.
Im in a 6 piece band, not fun splitting money 6 ways! 😅 Weddings are the only real way for us to make decent money per gig, and in the rare event we get decently paid bar gigs (£350+) it usually goes back into the band in the form of lighting equipment etc... oh and some bars make you pay for a sound engineer (£100) and weekly rehearsal room (£35) ... Still it's good craic... most of the time!
I’m in a band with a guy almost 20 years older than me. He told me that he made MORE back in the 90s from a typical bar gig than today - NOT adjusting for inflation but in actual dollars.
My experience as well. I've been gigging since the mid 90s. Pay then was about $500-600 for a full gig (10 pm to 2 am). That peaked around 2003 when my band would make $900-$1,200 per gig. I quit for several years to have a family. When I came back in 2012, the pay was back to $500 per gig and hasn't increased hardly at all in a decade.
Yeah that’s what an old roommate of mine also said(and my current drummer who has been playing since the 90s). The bar scene has largely turned into smaller acts(paying between $150-300 for a full band). One of my band’s recently got a raise in pay(big surprised honestly) to $900 for a 5pc band. I have a regular Tuesday gig that pays $100, another guy who pays well($200) but isn’t consistent work. All in all, I play in about half a dozen bands just to stay working. And that’s on top of my full time day job.
Crazy how the live music economy really hasn't recovered since 2008. Before then I did 3hr solo acoustic shows with 2 20 min breaks, drank and sometimes are for free, and was paid $150-300. Took a 2 year break and in 2008 lost my job. Needed $ so I called an agent who said no one is taking solo clients and suggested I join a band. Said the pay was the same but divided among the players. What I didn't expect was to learn that in 15 years the pay hasn't gone up. So if you are playing for the love of the music, God bless you and keep it up 🤘😝🤘
When I was gigging 2004 through 2019 with my last cover band any expenses the band was going to incur were added to the amount we charged. Thing's like mileage, parking, ferry fees, and OT were always planned for. We did mainly private performances and the money was good. AND we always used contracts and riders.
Great video! Being in an original band back in the late 80's early 90's we never got paid. For us, we had day jobs and never quit them lol. That being said, the reason we never were paid any money was really our choice. It is very difficult to get venues being an all original band so it was our way of getting in the door. Besides, it wasn't about the money for us, it was the exposure, the love of music and of coarse, there is nothing like the feeling of rocking out a crowd and their reaction to the music you just poured out to them. Loved it, will never forget it and was blessed to be able to be a part of something so fulfilling on so many levels.
You can make way more on RUclips playing guitar. Playing gigs helps support your channel and gives you content. An 8 minute video with about 60K views might make about 300 to 350 but that can vary wildly depending on watch time, available commercials, content, etc. But then you have to figure the hours in on RUclips which can also get very extensive. Put the two together and then your gig costs come down because you need the strings for RUclips videos and your practice is for RUclips. Lol. The gigs have to be just for fun though. Just think of all the content you could come up with from your gigs.
Playing music, just like any other art form, is an act of love when it comes to final tuning of it. There are literally 2.5 musicians to every 1 person out there (🙃)..but realistically there are so many phenomenally talented people playing on youtube, bars, eateries , the street corner, etc... be sober minded when it comes to "fame" and "fortune" from this endeavor. If it is a true passion you love and enjoy first... and can fund it (either by playing income or primary job), then you are a success. Many people want to become famous and hit the "big time".. do not envy those people in that position for you don't know their struggles, what they had to do to get there, and what parts of their soul and free thinking they had to outsource to achieve it . Everyone has differing motivations for performance , but, if you want to know if it is a true passion regardless... what your goal with it is, ask yourself: if you were stranded alone for the rest of your life on a deserted island with your instrument of choice, would you still play/sing with it despite no one ever hearing it? I've heard some say that art and music is useless unless "other people" see/hear it ... external validation is the goal. Though external validation feels great, I think it misses a critical motivating factor.. namely, your love for the thing. Having said that, everyone is free to pursue the goal they are trying to achieve aside from what I've mentioned... to get some attention, sex, highs etc...that is your business, I just believe music and true love for it is bigger than those things and will, ultimately, keep one more fulfilled mentally. If accolades come your way, then consider them branches on the tree rooted in your love . If you enjoy performing, I highly encourage you, in between trying to be a bar star, going to your local nursing home/assisted living facility and vibrating your craft in the direction of therapy towards the the ears of often forgotten portion of our senior population. Be true to yourself .. Live it and love it 🤘🙂✌.
I always advocate for merch, beyond T shirts. Lighters, stickers, water bottles, phone cases, any kind of common use item. They're usually pretty cheap in bulk and how many times have people gone to a show and lost a lighter, had it stolen, or just needed one? They were my bands biggest seller by far. We always joked that we were lighter salesmen who played music.
I had a friend in his 40s who ran some Open Mics from 7-10 PM, and at 10PM, he started breaking down and packing to go. He would rush to get the cheque from the bar, take a picture of it and deposit it in his bank whilst his GF would wrap up the microphones, and of course I helped too. About a month later, there was an Open Mic 7-10 run by some amazing younger (mid twenties) musicians who had so much fun, and even let me play bass. They started packing up around 10:15, and just as they finished, a crowd of people from out of state who were staying in a hotel behind the bar showed up, and were sad they missed it. These guys brought there acoustics and microphones back out and played for at least another hour for free. I go to see them whenever I can and brag about how great they are to everyone I talk to!
It’s great that you’re able to keep doing what you love doing. Unless musicians make it big, it’s a struggle to make a living. I recommend Dave Grohl’s new autobiography. It’s an eye opener.
Terrific Topic. Thanks. One can make a million dollars and be unfulfilled - another can do side gigs and feel they hold the world in their hands... Mindset is indeed everything.
cannot trade money for memories. i miss touring every day and our bank was always in the negative, but wouldnt trade it for anything. and thank you bro for bringing this to the attention of the younger generation. especially nowadays.
That's more or less the math i did when I was learning guitar being seventeen years old. I really wanted to be a musician not only because I love it but also because I have moderate natural talents (good ear and good sense of musicality) but i also knew I wanted to have a family and having " MY" minimum living standards. I made the decision to go the visual effects route where I managed to have a decent and stable income to support my family and still being involved in a creative and artistic field so every time I think about the road non taken and how good of a musician I could have been, I see how tough is to be a musician and it makes me come to peace regarding just being a guy who plays a bit of electric guitar for fun. Good luck to all musicians out there
Where I live, most of the small handful of venues don’t have live music period if not a DJ. The few that do are mostly dives that have an “open band mic night” unless you drive 2 hours each way. There is a local casino that occasionally has larger acts like “Daughtry” or “Slash feat. Miles Kennedy”, but never any local openers. The only other bands are one piece acts and duos that play near the casinos bar on weekends, but there is no pay, it’s a 4 hour set for exposure or for the sake of being able to play, and I’ve heard some mention that they drive 3 hours each way for it. Oh, and they’re NOT allowed to have a tip jar out. Casino management will ban them.
I’ve done it before in 2006 as a 5 string bassist for a jazz fusion band. It’s a was a great side gig, free drinks, food, good pay, and parking but I realized physically it was demanding, did it for a year but it was fun. A great topic for people who wants to go pro on the road🤙🏼
I love this channel and that’s a great story that, as a member of a working band years ago, resonates as very accurate. Except for ONE thing . . . if you are playing live at a bar and paying for your own drinks, something is very, very WRONG! We would consistently get offers to buy us drinks during breaks (although if you only played for an hour you obviously didn’t take a break) or someone in the audience would send drinks up to us on the stage. Moral of the story: find a place to play with a more appreciative audience, and DON’T accept gigs that only pay you to play for one hour. Your overall expenses would have been the same and your income would have quadrupled if you (or your friends) would have stuck to booking the typical 4 set gig.
I suggest you get an FM9 and for simplicity, get an external looper like the RC500- RC has drums too. That's it. Done. You can now set up SET LISTS inside the FM9. It is very versatile. Each preset can have numerous Scenes. The tone will beat what you have now as well.
You speak the total truth about bar gigs payouts. I’ve played 400+ gigs over 25-30 yrs…300 of them being bar/club level stuff….$75-150/gig. Spend usually 6-7 hrs of my time…commute, load in/out, set up/break down (drums), hours leading up to showtime. Since I hit my 40’s in 2010, I play less often but fortunate enough to get $350-$1000/gig in one band but only 3-5 shows/year and still doing bar gigs for $100-$150/gig with my other band. Do it for the fun and hanging with friends n playing drums with hopes to entertain folks and help them enjoy their night. All about the experiences…
I really love your takes on things. And your knowledge are awesome to listen to. Im in no position to ask you anything. But please make some more takes on the 72 Seasons album. Love and respect ✌️
Many years ago now we asked for a pay rise in a club. When the bar staff found out how much we got per hour they also wanted a large increase. We asked the questions “how many barkeeps take taps home to practice”, “how many bring their own taps”, “how long does it take to set up”, “how much did they have invested in gear”. We got our rise without further complaint. Years later when I said I wanted as much per night as my day job paid per day folks thought I was joking. Why is this not appropriate? Some musos play for absolute peanuts and wander why they are struggling to eat. It seems adjusting for inflation a lot of folk are making way less than in the 1960s. Just a thought.
Thanks for this, I was honestly super curious. Another thing I am curious about is how to make a pedal board. I am acquiring quite a few now and they're just kinda everywhere lol
I would encourage anyone with the abilities and connections to go on tour. When you're 80 years old sitting in a rocking chair thinking about your life, you likely won't be glad you decided to stay home rather than go on an adventure.
I barely play out because my back is bad and I have asthma, degenerative disc disease and spinal stenosis. I'm only 50, but it's too much on my body unless I can get some help.
In the 1970's I played in the house band of a bar just outside the gates of Fort Jackson in Columbia SC. This was a unique situation as we played request all night and never had a set list or practiced. Our drummer was an old blues player from Chicago and seemed to know every song ever written. He would start singing and set the beat and the rest of us jumped on it. In the beginning we didn't always have a quality product but over time we got really good at faking songs. We played 4 nights a week for about 4 hours a night. At the end of of the night between the tip jar and pay from the bar we made $160 to $200 each. There were weeks when I made over a grand. I got married in 1973 and had to quit because my wife didn't want to live backwards, ie. Staying up all night and sleeping all day. I got a real job and made an honest living of $125 a week for 40 hours. After I raised a family and felt financially secure I got with some guys and tried to do the bar thing again. Times had changed. In the late 1990's there were a hundred bands competing for the same gig plus none of the bars wanted a house band. We were lucky to get $100 each for a 4 hour gig. We played every Friday and Saturday night at different bars for about 10 years. It was now a date night for my wife and I and the gig basically paid the tab at the end of the night. I still loved it. At present I'm too old to play the 4 hour gigs and have retired from the day job but I have found a new way to play the music I love and it's far more rewarding. Some of the same guys I played with in the 90' s and early 2000's are now playing twice a week in nursing homes for about an hour each gig. We have simplified our set up to a small PA system and everything goes through the PA. Setup and break down are really quick. We recently set ourselves up as a nonprofit and have solicited sponsors. Now we actually make a little money doing this. We play usually from 10 am to 11am then enjoy a leisurely lunch with our fellow musicians. I would suggest any older musicians still wanting to play music do the same. If you add a benediction and some gospel music to your show it becomes a tax write off. We never charge the nursing home for what we do but do play fund raisers for our group. RUclips.com/joyfulnoiz
For me, I’ve been in various rock bands for over 30 years. I look on music as a hobby; just like my tennis, basketball, soccer, softball, surfing, travelling and my obsession with science. When you’re a musician “don’t quit your day job!”
I gigged 1-4 nights per week in the LA area back in the 90s. Typically made about $50-$100 per night. I’ll never forget seeing another band, and the bassist sat down and pulled out his lunch box with PB&Js. Taught me a lesson. I also took advantage of tax write-offs as I could (not financial, or tax advice).
For most local musicians i know it's a self-financing hobby. I play once a month an get decent pay to buy some gear from it. My tip for some nice income boost: get good at singing or get a good singer for weddings (not the wedding parties) You can easily make 200 each as a wedding duo with an acoustic and if you find the right contacts at a wedding location, you might get to play 2 or even 3 on the same day. (The local castle here has 3 weddings each saturday in the summer). That's some serious buck for a saturday afternoon.
Don't forget the cost of capital on the equipment you have to keep. Like what is the interest and depreciation carried on the guitar, amp, pedalboard, cables etc not to mention the vehicle depreciation for the miles.
Truer words have never been spoken. My band prefers playing benefit shows, ie Ronald McDonald House, Toys 4 Tots etc. What the bars pay is an insult to all the talented musicians. I wish you all the best, especially for your RUclips channel to make you tons of money! Rock on 😀
hey, love your content! i'm really curious about those banners (?) on either side of that flying V in the background... what are those? the designs are right up my alley...
I did plenty of gigs where the band members had to pay the sound and lighting guys out of their own pockets , and there wasn't enough money left to pay the band . Fun days .
One thing you can do is busking as a dayjob. I get about 40€ an hour. I dont need any time to prepare except maybe 30min to the spot and 30min back. And you can practice the stuff you want to play on your gigs at the same time (and get paid to do so). So maybe try it. Its an alternative to teaching (and I really dont wanna teach.)
It's like in The Blues Brothers movie when they go play at the honky tonk and at the end of the night the owner gives them a bill for all the beer they drink that far exceeded their earnings.
Not sure I agree with how you calculated all this- I don't think it's as bad as you're saying, or it doesn't have to be anyway- but it's not good. I made a giving gigging for over 15 years- the key is to have multiple gigs lined up and learn to be as efficient as possible about executing them. It took me a few years but In finally figured it out- I played on Beale Street in Memphis, where I also lived. Not on Beale Street- but I lived in Memphis. I certainly didn't become wealthy, but I made as good of a living as my friends who were all working normal jobs in construction, carpentry, etc. But I had t really discipline myself and not get those drinks, or anything else- and make sure I was using every minute of my time as wisely as possible. If I did find myself with no gig to play and it wasn't Sunday- I would go setup in the sidewalk on Beale Street- outside the Speedy Pig. I knew all the street performers and they were happy for me to join in usually. I will say that it helped that I was working in a genre specific area- everyone was doing the same blues standards for the most part so- if you knew those old standards and the theory they were based on- you could join in. I miss it- if you can't tell- I'm an old man now- I live on a ranch in the App. mountains and run a business designing, building, and maintaining hydraulic trash compactors for industrial applications. Jesus freaking Christ- my life is so boring- it's even sounds dull. Oh well- the money aint bad- rock on brothers!
That's why I explain at the end how I could make it more profitable. I have an interesting situation being a sub for a few bands. I get the freedom of not playing when I don't want to but when I do agree to a show it means much more time preparing. Notice I never complained and said it was unfair or that I think venues should be paying more. I wish they did but after being in the scene for over 3 decades I know better by now. I'm just calculating this more for myself knowing I have the option to just never play if I don't want to.
I've quit playing gigs a long time ago, i'm now a studio session musician and i make around 50,- an hour depending on the artist i was hired to play for. I had some sessions that i was making a 100,- by the hour, sometimes i made a 1000,- a day! Here's a tip for you youngsters out there, if you want to become a professional i.e. and make a living from music, stop dreaming about becoming a famous rock star, chances you're gonna make it in this business is close to 0,01 percent. I do have to mention one important thing though, i have a music degree, and yes, it is important to have a music education to make it happen. Good luck!
It's tough to make a living playing out for sure. But you made some great points, it's not the big money grab that everyone thinks it is. If I could only cash in on the exposure bucks I made over the years hahaha. Great video Dude!
Since you’re in the Twin Cities, you may know Jeff Loven. Like you, he made a living teaching, doing studio work and gigging. He eventually developed a one-man-band show where he played and sang to programmed backing tracks; he is a talented showman and was able to make that work. But that is what he had to do in order to be able to drop the teaching and jingle work, and focus on full time performance.
I play in an all original metal band and most of the money that we make goes back in to more merchandise t-shirt stickers etc. However that doesn't cover the practice time or rent at the rehearsal space. Btw I have that same Creep show t-shirt
I can't tell ya at the times I have played basically for free drinks lol... Got a house band gig one time and we were payed 400 a night between 4 of us as well as free beer the whole night. Needless to say by the 4th set our timing was impaired to say the least but by then the crowd was three sheets to the wind right along with us. I personally got em for 1 case a night lol... Those were fun times. I don't drink anymore but only play out every great now and then but as you said the pay has stayed pretty consistent throughout the years.
Great insight as always. Well..the key is NOT THINKING ABOUT IT:) I have a cover band as a hobby, and actually it's kinda stressful, because always hustling thanks to lack of time. Just have to do a revision of my gear for upcoming gigs, and always doing it in a fly late evenings/nights in a crowded space. I'm actually jelaous of my bass player, he comes, flip a switch and he's ready, and I did not even plug single cable yet..huge pedalboard because sound must be right for certain song, so much to think about. Not to mention lack of time for practicing. That is all bearable, until there are some kindergarden disaggrement and stress in a band, or my f*** drummer is out of focus..then I want to burn all my gear along with my self:P But hey, I still really love to play and chasing the sound, so I guess you have to pay the price for every joy in life. Painting or writing a book i think is much more relaxed hobby:P
Being a pro musician was never in the cards for me as I have zero practice discipline. But even if it had been, I would rather work a well paying day job and play guitar for fun on my time off.
Same here! In my band days, it was too tough getting four people together once a week. I was the only one who drove and had a car, so it added on about an hour and a half total to get people to the session, as two lived in opposite directions of the drummer's house where we played! Also, it was virtually impossible top get everyone to agree on what songs we would play!
My friends in Mexico make good money as musicians. It’s completely different there, people are just willing to pay more for music and almost every party has a 1-3 bands playing at it. I’ve seen my cousin make $150 for three songs in the parking lot of a bar after his gig was done. They are crazy though, they spend every cent they make partying, and chasing women .
It’s interesting listening to someone at your level talk about this. I spent around 20 years playing on an amateur basis, and I encountered the same thing. I had numerous people say that the extra money must have come in handy. And I had to laugh. I remember many 3:30 AM check writing sessions in the booth of a crappy bar in the middle of nowhere. Here’s your $70. At the time, bass strings were 40 bucks is set. Couple that with mileage, and I was usually in the hole financially.
Or…play regularly in wedding/corporate bands and actually make decent money (minimum $300 per band member, sometimes waaay more depending on the time of the year, etc). Club/Bar gig are the worst paying gigs. Actually, I take it back. It’s some church gigs (Not all though. Some Mega churches actually pay decent) and/or “exposure” gigs that pay the worst (if anything).
I got handed a $5 bill one time after a show. I initially got nothing but just as I was in my car about to pull out of the parking spot a guy from the venue comes up to my window and says "Sorry man." and handed me the 5 bucks. Talk about a Spinal Tap moment; we were booked at a legitimate venue (south of Seattle) and when we walked in the front door (myself & drummer were the first ones there) I see guys up on scaffoling repairing the ceiling/painting etc. and I was like WTF is this? So I asked them whats up and he said "Yeah, we have about 2 weeks worth of work here so you guys are playing at the end of the block at the ice cream parlor." Uhhhh, what? Next thing you know is I'm carting in my bass gear going right by the coolers that have the tubs of ice cream in it - typical ice cream shop. There was a "stage" that was about a 3" riser that we had to set up our gear on in the corner of the shop up against their big ceiling to floor windows (so you can see the sidewalk/cars going by etc.). So we got the idea to set up our gear backwards facing the sidewalk. When it was our turn to play my singers (two of them) had long enough mic cables to be out on the sidewalk. There were a lot of kids there but they didn't pay to get in as they were piled against the glass windows and were thrashing around with the singers. It was highly embarrassing & fun at the same time. Nobody told us that the real venue was under repair and that we would be playing an ice cream shop. I guess that's why I only warranted getting $5 and that was out of mercy. Everyone else left with no money & was pissed and when I got the $5 I just handed it to my guitar player since he was the most infuriated. True story that happened in the late 90's.
This is so true!!!!!!! Epecially when you open up for nationals! Just an example, opening for Quiet Riot.$50 each. 4 hours of time inlcuding performance! Fun times though! :)
I remember the first time I played CBGB’s and they gave us $50. There were 5 of us in the band so it was $10 each. We had to drive into the city, pay the GWB toll, gas etc. So obviously you weren’t making anything. A month later at another gig I was talking to someone from another band and he thought I was lying that they “paid us.” 😂
I was guessing $4 but $2 is ouch. My brother got hooked up with a local Folk Band, the woman had a name and is mid 70s but, the can play every weekend and he will bring home 150 minimum. Not bad but, he still has a 9 to5. It's almost impossible not too.
Weddings/Corporates is really the only way to gain a living wage from playing covers live. Bar gigs are actually more fun to play in my experience though and an alternative perspective is getting that £60 is more then you'd earn then sitting at home not playing. I think the users saying to adjust prices are perhaps underestimating the budgets that bars/pubs have for live music. In my area it's around £300-£350 and so if you set your pricing up to something like £500 (£100ea for a 5 piece band), then you won't get a gig. Country and region specific of course..
It’s funny having done both covers and originals it’s such a trade off. You can make in my area of Canada 60-100ish bucks a person in my four person cover band but the downside is you have to play some lame bar music. The other end of it I’ve played motorhead style hard rock and toured when I was younger and literally spent money to play every show. At this point in my life with a day job and kids I’ve realized I’m never gonna make it from music but I will play for the rest of my life because I love it.
I’m just a million bucks short of being a millionaire! My friends have a sweet gig as a house band on a cruise boat, just a 2 piece drums/keyboard and get $500 a night (250 each) plus tips! But sadly they do the same exact set/jokes/everything the same every night and that would drive me crazy.
So my band and I usually make about $75 at a show (as we’ve been opening for a couple local tribute bands, our next show is with a KISS tribute this June) but the last show I played was a few weeks ago on April 1 (yes, April Fools Day and it was our first headlining gig and we had a few of our friends’ bands open for us, the show went well save for some technical difficulties (which oddly lined up well for what day it was). Anyways, my band ended up making $300 from ticket sales and also had to pay the sound guy $210 (which is how it works at the venue I normally play at) so as a result of that there were $90 left over and we gave each band an equal share so at the end of the show we ended up getting paid $30. Granted we didn’t really do the best planning since this was our first big headlining performance so we didn’t fully know what we were doing and there was a big dispute about money but thankfully we got it solved fairly quickly and we all vowed never to do the way we sold tickets (which was with physical copies) again because of how difficult it was
All this being said, I hope it doesn't dissuade anyone from following their dreams if that's what they really want to do. There's a reason I still do it even after all these years. Can't forget about all the people I've met, all the great music I get to play, all the smiles, good times, experiences, and timeless memories. This video is really just a reality check for anyone who thinks you're gonna get rich quick playing live music. I think reality checks are important now and then. ;)
i lov ur videoss!
I don't drive or use private vehicles in any way. My strings last me 2+ years of playing 4+ hours per day. I think a lot of expenses are avoidable.
@@figtheoryvlog
If you play live shows and travel you'll know how unrealistic your comment is.
Yeah, doesn’t cost any money to sit in your room playing guitar. Great way to work on your chops.
While it's been MANY years since I played in a band, and even longer since I played any live gigs, it's sad that they are still paying around $100 per band member per night.
Anyway, wanted to weigh in on this and say thank you for posting this. Often times, people look at what you do from the outside and think you are rich because of it, but don't realize all the hidden costs. I run a small computer shop, and people think I make a killing charging $100 per hour for on-site work. Then I run thru a quick list - I have to pay my front desk girl, my insurance, I don't charge for travel time, building expenses (electric, loan payment, credit card bills associated with purchasing equipment, sales tax, etc.), and when you break it all down, my front desk girl makes more per hour. That being said, I don't regret it, I choose it, because I love what I do, and am very grateful for it.
Edit : Typo corrections.
I love this video! My last gig - I made -93 and that was just drinks for me and my friends and gas. We didn't realize there was a 5 finger death punch concert in Tampa that night so nobody was at the club (The Brass Mug). I wouldn't have traded it for the world though because it turned out to be the last time I got to play with my bandmate "Doc" before he passed away.. That night I figured out that I'll never get rich doing this, but the friendships and the fun still make it worth it! Keep on Rockin' man! I love what you do here!
Doc liked men anyways
@@a.nelprober-rl5cf brother what
@@a.nelprober-rl5cf …?
@@a.nelprober-rl5cfWhat the fuck is your issue?
What is your band name? I live in Clearwater and love live music. Also love guitar, but not good enough to play live :)
"It's a long way to the top of you wanna rock and roll."
Gospel.
This was an "epiphany" for me about 10-15yrs ago. I started to phase out band gigs in favor of acoustic solo. While I'll still do a band gig every once in a blue moon to scratch the itch, all I do now is 3-4hr acoustic solo gigs (usually with two 20-30 minute breaks depending on the venue). I get paid a guarantee from the venues ranging from $150 (minimum I'll play for on a weekday), up to $300 per 3-4hr show. My setup/teardown is comfortably 20 minutes, I'm almost always home by 11pm, and I no longer have a day job… I do this full time. I average 2-5 gigs a week but I could easily do as many as I could handle (14?) if I were so motivated. If I were young and still playing all originals and still had like… dreams and stuff? Yeah, I'd probably laugh at me.
That’s because you are a professional! Anyone who’s sharing a one night gig with 3 other bands is kidding themselves and frankly giving it away. 🤔
This.
I've been gigging with bands for decades. Sporadic solo work. But just today I booked a gig, solo, at a winery for tomorrow. $300 for 3 hours.! I'm going to phase out my band work and get the solo work going.
39 toured playing originals for 5. if I'm younger than you, then yes: I am laughing at you. never surrender!!!
Just curious... where do you live? I dont think its possible to make a living like this in my city.
I've been in an acoustic duo for years after playing in a ton of bands and this is easily the most money for the least heavy lifting. Low gear requirements, early set times (6pm-9pm most days), and short distances to travel. Money from wine bars, restaurants, and especially private gigs are light years ahead of my full band gigs. Also helps if you can learn to sing a few on your own and provide some harmony as that makes you more valuable than just playing leads.
This is a great video. I just retired from doing gigs after 50 years of solid weekend gigs in a number of bands over decades. I did it because I loved playing to an audience. Sitting at home playing for my own amusement never worked for me. Your calculations are correct. Most nights in my neck of woods, $100 a person is about right for a four piece band. $125 dollars apiece for a trio. Play because you love to do it but these days it's extremely tough to do it as a full time job. We all have bills to pay.
Time is money.
Thanks for the intimate peek behind the curtain of your life as a professional musician. The love of performing makes that $2.08 an hour bearable as it's really about getting to perform live.
In my youth I played gigs with a string-quartet and when we told potential customers, what we are charging for a playing time of 30 minutes they were often shocked. But what they all forget is the rehearsal time of the ensemble, the practicing time alone at home and so much more. I remember one saying "Why you are charging money to play? Music is fun, so you get enough from the fun to play live"
“Because groceries, bills, and other expenses take cash or credit but not fun as a source of tender.”
Everyone wants musicians to play for free.
@@Nickshreds890AND Music is a LOT of WORK!Practice,Prep,Set-up,the gig/total concentration!,breakdown etc..
I play the bagpipes and people often ask me to play at weddings or ceremonies and when I say its $150, their mouth just hangs open in shock because for some reason, they thought I was going to get dressed up like an idiot and spent my Saturday afternoon at someone's wedding that I dont know and perform for free. Then I ask them how the DJ is charging. Nobody expects the DJ to come for free.
I get the same thing for filming trains. Other railfans hate the commercials in the videos and think I should film just for the fun of it.
I LOVE the honesty and transparency of this - in some scenarios, $82 for each member is actually a lot. I personally find it absurd that clubs get away with hiring TALENT and a job they can't do themselves and take a piss on us whenever possible. This is playing the Philly "live" scene in general, especially if you are in an original band. It's so fucking depressing - almost feels not worth it and you end up playing to possible 5 people depending on the crowd. I also find ridiculous that venues expect you to do all the marketing when THEY are the venue and have all that power! They are basically asking and getting practically free entertainment - it's such a crapshoot. Real talent float through those stages and scenarios too that will never get heard by the masses. Meanwhile, the music industry gatekeepers are creating the next W.A.P. and elevating celebrities with microphones....
I really appreciate you taking the time to break this down. There are so many misconceptions out there when it comes to being a musician.
It is amazing and highly depressing that that happens in the U.S. Portuguese reality is very similar! But this is a very small country... A GREAT video and very usefull to all the ones that want to embrace music! Greetings from Portugal!🤘🤩
With the bands, I play with we've basically come up with a minimum price to do a show. If we can't hit that number we just pass. The only exception is if there's an exposure aspect that will help land a bigger gig. It's good to do the math like you just did sometimes as a reality check. ✌🏻
Great video! I’m in two local bands and we throw all our earnings into a band fund. That way each band stays self sufficient and we’re never coming out of pocket for things like merch and recording.
Thanks for your very realistic picture of how much club gigging pays. It is amazing that the pay for a club gig hasn’t changed in 50 years. I’m an old guy who has been playing gigs for the past 50 years. Each member of my 3 piece band makes between $80 and $100 when playing a club, which doesn’t include tips. Private gigs pay a lot more. I also do a single and charge $100-$150. Needless to say, I got a day time job years ago when I realized how difficult it would be for me to live off of playing alone. Now that I’m retired, I try to play as much as possible and love it just as much as when I picked up my first guitar at 13.
I’m Brazil it’s very common to play in weddings, I’ve played a lot in churchs. Private events etc. never for less than 200. The most common is 400 per gig. Here in the USA. I’ve never played for less than 100. I had a gig in Ohio for 400. I live in Florida.
I guess it all comes down to the joy you brought to the crowd while listening to you play... that's priceless!
I played live shows for many years with different bands.And the thing is, money was never the priority, money was nice to get, because it meant that i could possibly get even with the money i spent on gear and such (I'm a drummer btw and i use a lot of cymbals, and they are like 300 each on average)
Then at one point i got asked to join a ffdp tribute band, with this band we had management and we played quite some shows. During this time we actually got paid pretty decently compared to what i was used to. We were getting 125 per band member/per show to play around a 1 hour show.
When i was in bands that did original material we almost never got paid, or we barely got paid.
If you love music, and love playing live shows, then it's an amazing experience, it's very satisfying and a lot of fun to do.
But it really isn't easy to make money, because if you're starting out you'll be playing smaller venues that depend on local bands and they pay them like 50 euros for a show or something, or they provide you with diner and some free drinks and that's pretty much it.
So if you're just in it for the money then teaching or doing studio sessions might be a better route to take for you.
If you're in it because you love playing live, then just don't expect to get rich from it and enjoy the experience instead.
I was always happy to play shows, even if i didn't make any money doing it. It was already rewarding enough to see people have fun during the gig and have people come to you after the show to tell you they loved it and most importantly the playing itself feels really awesome to me, especially on a stage with good sound.
At the end of the day when you're on your deathbed money doesn't mean a thing, but the experiences you had will be with you forever, and no one can take those away from you.
I am so glad you posted this video. You are spot on on every topic. Especially the $100. I am 71 years old I will play for $150 tonight tomorrow night and $75 on Saturday. I have over 4,000 songs in my repertoire probably 2000 in my head. How long do you think it took me to learn all of that. How long do you think it took me to build pedal board? But the most incredible part about it is how long do you think it took me to deal with audiences, club owners, and fastidious wedding planners? We don't do this for the money. But we have to make money somehow to do it. Bravo fellow musician bravo
Cool video. Mike's story time's are always good value - makes me live vicariously as if I had stuck with guitar and socialising, and interacting with the world - and NOT became an alcoholic hermit! 😌
$82!! Damn,I need to stop playing punk music. (I've made way more of selling our t-shirts than from my music.) Thanks for the video, love your channel.
Congrats on 798k Subscribers! Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. Such a good book, i'm only part way into it but it's mind blowing. This is great, a real breakdown of what goes into playing a gig from a financial side of it, a little depressing for sure but definitely educating.
Thank you for this very honest video about the game of playing live. Should be talked about, musicians deserve so much more for all that expense.
The math works out much worse also if you play in an original band, at least for the vast majority of us. Sure, the ceiling is higher, but most of us are putting money into our bands constantly with the long term goal of the band funding itself, and that in and of itself is a level of success that most original bands do not ever reach. As an original band, to make money you have to play shows and sell merch. Some genres you can enough attention purely from the internet to generate a meaningful amount of income, but many you can't. So, you have to get out on the road, tour, play festival shows. Early on, you're incredibly lucky if you break even. The more people in your band, the more difficult this becomes, as you have more people to feed. Meanwhile, this isn't your source of income, and when you go on tour you aren't working your normal job. This continues just on a larger and larger scale as your band grows until maybe, hopefully, you start breaking even, and then much farther after that maybe you can start paying yourselves. Basically, being in an original band from the early stages HAS to be a labor of love, because that is really the only incentive to do it.
To illustrate, my band is flying across the country this summer for a festival. We're a 4 piece, but are looking for a 5th. Flights are $650 each, we'll be there for 4 days, we'll have to rent a car, probably pay for extra carry on bags or checked bags on the flight for our instruments and merch. We'll be fed the day we play, but aside from that we're on our own. We have to pay for accommodations or find someone to stay with. All told, we're probably looking at ~$1000 in costs per person, if not more. The gig pays $300, so we get that and whatever we make on merch. The fest is sold out, but it's small and focuses on our little niche. It's a great opportunity for us to network, play with more established bands and get in front of an engaged and receptive audience. But, all told we're likely collectively paying upwards of $2500 for the privilege.
Toured with a signed band. Sponsored by Jager as well. Don't forget the mechanic fees! At some points, you might waste all your nights sales on your vehicle and have nothing left for gas. So yep. That's that. Thankfully for the guys we did meet, did offer us to crash on their buses.
Local gigs to us was more of a hassle than touring. Just due to the fact that there's too much waiting. Touring you pull up, play, walk out, next city. It's not all bad though! Bigger opportunities to hang with your fans more
Some advice from a touring musician:
1. buy a big box of good quality strings. Same for any other stuff that doesn't last long, a box of picks, etc. In my case I use Fender Bullets -- they don't suffer from the ball end coming off like other strings. I change my strings once per every 4 shows. Some people swear by coated strings, they are really nice, but still have that ball end, which I don't recommend... plus they feel unfamiliar.
2. Invest in locking tuners -- strings are easier to change and no need to stretch them / break them in as much as with traditional tuners. I can safely change my strings the night before a show, and the strings will be sufficiently stretched in time for a sound check.
3. Pedalboards are nice, but a processor is more convenient -- less stuff to worry about regarding cables going bad. Have a backup processor, just in case, something like an HX Stomp or Pod Go. Also with a processor, you have less things to bring to the gig, saving your back. Leave your tube amp at home, and just bring a powered speaker or a power amp + speaker cab.... Or simply use whatever amp they have at the venue: either run into the effects loop or use it as a glorified speaker cab.
So in short, I can get to a local gig with 2 guitars, 2 processors and use whatever amp they have at the gig for stage volume. No need for a truck to get my stuff to the gig: if I get some help from my band members, I can easily take a train with an extra person to bring all my other things. Have lots of spare cables/strings at all times, so you don't need to order them on such a short notice. And if you have good strings, as I mentioned, you don't need to change them before every show. If you are worried about breaking strings, address where strings typically break: saddles / ball end. So if you don't have a ball end, the bullet already solves 90% of the string breakages for you... now make sure your saddles are smooth, and apply Nut Sauce to them so there is even less friction.
That's without factoring all the time learning as well. Even when it's not the song material at hand, you're still practicing and keeping your muscles in shape.
Im in a 6 piece band, not fun splitting money 6 ways! 😅 Weddings are the only real way for us to make decent money per gig, and in the rare event we get decently paid bar gigs (£350+) it usually goes back into the band in the form of lighting equipment etc... oh and some bars make you pay for a sound engineer (£100) and weekly rehearsal room (£35) ... Still it's good craic... most of the time!
I’m in a band with a guy almost 20 years older than me. He told me that he made MORE back in the 90s from a typical bar gig than today - NOT adjusting for inflation but in actual dollars.
lol... yeah gen x is a wonderful group of people. its ok because rent was way cheaper back then.... oh wait.
My experience as well. I've been gigging since the mid 90s. Pay then was about $500-600 for a full gig (10 pm to 2 am). That peaked around 2003 when my band would make $900-$1,200 per gig. I quit for several years to have a family. When I came back in 2012, the pay was back to $500 per gig and hasn't increased hardly at all in a decade.
Yeah that’s what an old roommate of mine also said(and my current drummer who has been playing since the 90s). The bar scene has largely turned into smaller acts(paying between $150-300 for a full band). One of my band’s recently got a raise in pay(big surprised honestly) to $900 for a 5pc band. I have a regular Tuesday gig that pays $100, another guy who pays well($200) but isn’t consistent work. All in all, I play in about half a dozen bands just to stay working. And that’s on top of my full time day job.
It’s true mate. My first year of gigging in 94 I earned the same as in 2023. In actual pounds.
I used to make 300 dollars in the 90s for a full gig. That was a good money back then
Crazy how the live music economy really hasn't recovered since 2008. Before then I did 3hr solo acoustic shows with 2 20 min breaks, drank and sometimes are for free, and was paid $150-300. Took a 2 year break and in 2008 lost my job. Needed $ so I called an agent who said no one is taking solo clients and suggested I join a band. Said the pay was the same but divided among the players. What I didn't expect was to learn that in 15 years the pay hasn't gone up. So if you are playing for the love of the music, God bless you and keep it up 🤘😝🤘
When I was gigging 2004 through 2019 with my last cover band any expenses the band was going to incur were added to the amount we charged. Thing's like mileage, parking, ferry fees, and OT were always planned for. We did mainly private performances and the money was good. AND we always used contracts and riders.
Great video! Being in an original band back in the late 80's early 90's we never got paid. For us, we had day jobs and never quit them lol. That being said, the reason we never were paid any money was really our choice. It is very difficult to get venues being an all original band so it was our way of getting in the door. Besides, it wasn't about the money for us, it was the exposure, the love of music and of coarse, there is nothing like the feeling of rocking out a crowd and their reaction to the music you just poured out to them. Loved it, will never forget it and was blessed to be able to be a part of something so fulfilling on so many levels.
Everything you said is true for me too. It's a labor of love to play live.
You can make way more on RUclips playing guitar. Playing gigs helps support your channel and gives you content. An 8 minute video with about 60K views might make about 300 to 350 but that can vary wildly depending on watch time, available commercials, content, etc. But then you have to figure the hours in on RUclips which can also get very extensive. Put the two together and then your gig costs come down because you need the strings for RUclips videos and your practice is for RUclips. Lol. The gigs have to be just for fun though. Just think of all the content you could come up with from your gigs.
Playing music, just like any other art form, is an act of love when it comes to final tuning of it. There are literally 2.5 musicians to every 1 person out there (🙃)..but realistically there are so many phenomenally talented people playing on youtube, bars, eateries , the street corner, etc... be sober minded when it comes to "fame" and "fortune" from this endeavor. If it is a true passion you love and enjoy first... and can fund it (either by playing income or primary job), then you are a success. Many people want to become famous and hit the "big time".. do not envy those people in that position for you don't know their struggles, what they had to do to get there, and what parts of their soul and free thinking they had to outsource to achieve it . Everyone has differing motivations for performance , but, if you want to know if it is a true passion regardless... what your goal with it is, ask yourself: if you were stranded alone for the rest of your life on a deserted island with your instrument of choice, would you still play/sing with it despite no one ever hearing it? I've heard some say that art and music is useless unless "other people" see/hear it ... external validation is the goal. Though external validation feels great, I think it misses a critical motivating factor.. namely, your love for the thing. Having said that, everyone is free to pursue the goal they are trying to achieve aside from what I've mentioned... to get some attention, sex, highs etc...that is your business, I just believe music and true love for it is bigger than those things and will, ultimately, keep one more fulfilled mentally. If accolades come your way, then consider them branches on the tree rooted in your love . If you enjoy performing, I highly encourage you, in between trying to be a bar star, going to your local nursing home/assisted living facility and vibrating your craft in the direction of therapy towards the the ears of often forgotten portion of our senior population. Be true to yourself .. Live it and love it 🤘🙂✌.
This is a really great video... we appreciate your honesty so much! Thank so much again.
I played guitar live as well and it was fun but I find it to be very energy draining and the money wasn't great so I stopped. Great content as always.
I always advocate for merch, beyond T shirts. Lighters, stickers, water bottles, phone cases, any kind of common use item. They're usually pretty cheap in bulk and how many times have people gone to a show and lost a lighter, had it stolen, or just needed one? They were my bands biggest seller by far. We always joked that we were lighter salesmen who played music.
I had a friend in his 40s who ran some Open Mics from 7-10 PM, and at 10PM, he started breaking down and packing to go. He would rush to get the cheque from the bar, take a picture of it and deposit it in his bank whilst his GF would wrap up the microphones, and of course I helped too.
About a month later, there was an Open Mic 7-10 run by some amazing younger (mid twenties) musicians who had so much fun, and even let me play bass. They started packing up around 10:15, and just as they finished, a crowd of people from out of state who were staying in a hotel behind the bar showed up, and were sad they missed it. These guys brought there acoustics and microphones back out and played for at least another hour for free. I go to see them whenever I can and brag about how great they are to everyone I talk to!
It’s great that you’re able to keep doing what you love doing. Unless musicians make it big, it’s a struggle to make a living. I recommend Dave Grohl’s new autobiography. It’s an eye opener.
Terrific Topic. Thanks. One can make a million dollars and be unfulfilled - another can do side gigs and feel they hold the world in their hands... Mindset is indeed everything.
cannot trade money for memories. i miss touring every day and our bank was always in the negative, but wouldnt trade it for anything. and thank you bro for bringing this to the attention of the younger generation. especially nowadays.
i must also express that we were an all original band. no covers. the difference is staggering if you've had both shoes on
That's more or less the math i did when I was learning guitar being seventeen years old. I really wanted to be a musician not only because I love it but also because I have moderate natural talents (good ear and good sense of musicality) but i also knew I wanted to have a family and having " MY" minimum living standards. I made the decision to go the visual effects route where I managed to have a decent and stable income to support my family and still being involved in a creative and artistic field so every time I think about the road non taken and how good of a musician I could have been, I see how tough is to be a musician and it makes me come to peace regarding just being a guy who plays a bit of electric guitar for fun. Good luck to all musicians out there
Where I live, most of the small handful of venues don’t have live music period if not a DJ. The few that do are mostly dives that have an “open band mic night” unless you drive 2 hours each way. There is a local casino that occasionally has larger acts like “Daughtry” or “Slash feat. Miles Kennedy”, but never any local openers. The only other bands are one piece acts and duos that play near the casinos bar on weekends, but there is no pay, it’s a 4 hour set for exposure or for the sake of being able to play, and I’ve heard some mention that they drive 3 hours each way for it. Oh, and they’re NOT allowed to have a tip jar out. Casino management will ban them.
I’ve done it before in 2006 as a 5 string bassist for a jazz fusion band. It’s a was a great side gig, free drinks, food, good pay, and parking but I realized physically it was demanding, did it for a year but it was fun. A great topic for people who wants to go pro on the road🤙🏼
It is what it is as a musician!
I love this channel and that’s a great story that, as a member of a working band years ago, resonates as very accurate. Except for ONE thing . . . if you are playing live at a bar and paying for your own drinks, something is very, very WRONG!
We would consistently get offers to buy us drinks during breaks (although if you only played for an hour you obviously didn’t take a break) or someone in the audience would send drinks up to us on the stage.
Moral of the story: find a place to play with a more appreciative audience, and DON’T accept gigs that only pay you to play for one hour. Your overall expenses would have been the same and your income would have quadrupled if you (or your friends) would have stuck to booking the typical 4 set gig.
I suggest you get an FM9 and for simplicity, get an external looper like the RC500- RC has drums too. That's it. Done. You can now set up SET LISTS inside the FM9. It is very versatile. Each preset can have numerous Scenes. The tone will beat what you have now as well.
Packing up the drums at 2 am is so glamorous
this is so depressing that i cried the whole video
Thanks for the run down!
New strings before show??? I usually tune the strings for a week until they are good for a live.
You speak the total truth about bar gigs payouts. I’ve played 400+ gigs over 25-30 yrs…300 of them being bar/club level stuff….$75-150/gig. Spend usually 6-7 hrs of my time…commute, load in/out, set up/break down (drums), hours leading up to showtime.
Since I hit my 40’s in 2010, I play less often but fortunate enough to get $350-$1000/gig in one band but only 3-5 shows/year and still doing bar gigs for $100-$150/gig with my other band. Do it for the fun and hanging with friends n playing drums with hopes to entertain folks and help them enjoy their night. All about the experiences…
I really love your takes on things. And your knowledge are awesome to listen to. Im in no position to ask you anything. But please make some more takes on the 72 Seasons album. Love and respect ✌️
Many years ago now we asked for a pay rise in a club. When the bar staff found out how much we got per hour they also wanted a large increase. We asked the questions “how many barkeeps take taps home to practice”, “how many bring their own taps”, “how long does it take to set up”, “how much did they have invested in gear”. We got our rise without further complaint.
Years later when I said I wanted as much per night as my day job paid per day folks thought I was joking. Why is this not appropriate? Some musos play for absolute peanuts and wander why they are struggling to eat. It seems adjusting for inflation a lot of folk are making way less than in the 1960s. Just a thought.
rehearsal room also costs a lot if you don't have a place for free.
Thanks for this, I was honestly super curious.
Another thing I am curious about is how to make a pedal board. I am acquiring quite a few now and they're just kinda everywhere lol
You have to learn also the order to place them because it affect the sound apparently
I would encourage anyone with the abilities and connections to go on tour. When you're 80 years old sitting in a rocking chair thinking about your life, you likely won't be glad you decided to stay home rather than go on an adventure.
I barely play out because my back is bad and I have asthma, degenerative disc disease and spinal stenosis. I'm only 50, but it's too much on my body unless I can get some help.
In the 1970's I played in the house band of a bar just outside the gates of Fort Jackson in Columbia SC. This was a unique situation as we played request all night and never had a set list or practiced. Our drummer was an old blues player from Chicago and seemed to know every song ever written. He would start singing and set the beat and the rest of us jumped on it. In the beginning we didn't always have a quality product but over time we got really good at faking songs. We played 4 nights a week for about 4 hours a night. At the end of of the night between the tip jar and pay from the bar we made $160 to $200 each. There were weeks when I made over a grand. I got married in 1973 and had to quit because my wife didn't want to live backwards, ie. Staying up all night and sleeping all day. I got a real job and made an honest living of $125 a week for 40 hours. After I raised a family and felt financially secure I got with some guys and tried to do the bar thing again. Times had changed. In the late 1990's there were a hundred bands competing for the same gig plus none of the bars wanted a house band. We were lucky to get $100 each for a 4 hour gig. We played every Friday and Saturday night at different bars for about 10 years. It was now a date night for my wife and I and the gig basically paid the tab at the end of the night. I still loved it. At present I'm too old to play the 4 hour gigs and have retired from the day job but I have found a new way to play the music I love and it's far more rewarding. Some of the same guys I played with in the 90' s and early 2000's are now playing twice a week in nursing homes for about an hour each gig. We have simplified our set up to a small PA system and everything goes through the PA. Setup and break down are really quick. We recently set ourselves up as a nonprofit and have solicited sponsors. Now we actually make a little money doing this. We play usually from 10 am to 11am then enjoy a leisurely lunch with our fellow musicians. I would suggest any older musicians still wanting to play music do the same. If you add a benediction and some gospel music to your show it becomes a tax write off. We never charge the nursing home for what we do but do play fund raisers for our group.
RUclips.com/joyfulnoiz
Mike, you'd be a helluva session guitarist and drummer.
Isn't it what he actually does?
For me, I’ve been in various rock bands for over 30 years.
I look on music as a hobby; just like my tennis, basketball, soccer, softball, surfing, travelling and my obsession with science.
When you’re a musician “don’t quit your day job!”
I gigged 1-4 nights per week in the LA area back in the 90s. Typically made about $50-$100 per night. I’ll never forget seeing another band, and the bassist sat down and pulled out his lunch box with PB&Js. Taught me a lesson. I also took advantage of tax write-offs as I could (not financial, or tax advice).
Hello Mike, Steve Vai concert was really nice, and also got autograph on my guitar and took photos, with 3 band members. 🙂
Right on the money except the stage clothes part lol
I bet you prepare 1000x more than most local acts.
I feel like I’m the only guy in my town who actually uses new strings for every show. Most of my friends don’t change strings unless they break
For most local musicians i know it's a self-financing hobby. I play once a month an get decent pay to buy some gear from it. My tip for some nice income boost: get good at singing or get a good singer for weddings (not the wedding parties) You can easily make 200 each as a wedding duo with an acoustic and if you find the right contacts at a wedding location, you might get to play 2 or even 3 on the same day. (The local castle here has 3 weddings each saturday in the summer). That's some serious buck for a saturday afternoon.
Don't forget the cost of capital on the equipment you have to keep. Like what is the interest and depreciation carried on the guitar, amp, pedalboard, cables etc not to mention the vehicle depreciation for the miles.
Truer words have never been spoken. My band prefers playing benefit shows, ie Ronald McDonald House, Toys 4 Tots etc. What the bars pay is an insult to all the talented musicians. I wish you all the best, especially for your RUclips channel to make you tons of money! Rock on 😀
hey, love your content! i'm really curious about those banners (?) on either side of that flying V in the background... what are those? the designs are right up my alley...
I did plenty of gigs where the band members had to pay the sound and lighting guys out of their own pockets , and there wasn't enough money left to pay the band .
Fun days .
One thing you can do is busking as a dayjob. I get about 40€ an hour. I dont need any time to prepare except maybe 30min to the spot and 30min back. And you can practice the stuff you want to play on your gigs at the same time (and get paid to do so). So maybe try it. Its an alternative to teaching (and I really dont wanna teach.)
Nice video bro, thanks for sharing. Where do you live? Where was the gig? Is that the reality in all places in US?
It's like in The Blues Brothers movie when they go play at the honky tonk and at the end of the night the owner gives them a bill for all the beer they drink that far exceeded their earnings.
Not sure I agree with how you calculated all this- I don't think it's as bad as you're saying, or it doesn't have to be anyway- but it's not good. I made a giving gigging for over 15 years- the key is to have multiple gigs lined up and learn to be as efficient as possible about executing them. It took me a few years but In finally figured it out- I played on Beale Street in Memphis, where I also lived. Not on Beale Street- but I lived in Memphis. I certainly didn't become wealthy, but I made as good of a living as my friends who were all working normal jobs in construction, carpentry, etc. But I had t really discipline myself and not get those drinks, or anything else- and make sure I was using every minute of my time as wisely as possible. If I did find myself with no gig to play and it wasn't Sunday- I would go setup in the sidewalk on Beale Street- outside the Speedy Pig. I knew all the street performers and they were happy for me to join in usually. I will say that it helped that I was working in a genre specific area- everyone was doing the same blues standards for the most part so- if you knew those old standards and the theory they were based on- you could join in. I miss it- if you can't tell- I'm an old man now- I live on a ranch in the App. mountains and run a business designing, building, and maintaining hydraulic trash compactors for industrial applications. Jesus freaking Christ- my life is so boring- it's even sounds dull. Oh well- the money aint bad- rock on brothers!
That's why I explain at the end how I could make it more profitable. I have an interesting situation being a sub for a few bands. I get the freedom of not playing when I don't want to but when I do agree to a show it means much more time preparing. Notice I never complained and said it was unfair or that I think venues should be paying more. I wish they did but after being in the scene for over 3 decades I know better by now. I'm just calculating this more for myself knowing I have the option to just never play if I don't want to.
I've quit playing gigs a long time ago, i'm now a studio session musician and i make around 50,- an hour depending on the artist i was hired to play for. I had some sessions that i was making a 100,- by the hour, sometimes i made a 1000,- a day! Here's a tip for you youngsters out there, if you want to become a professional i.e. and make a living from music, stop dreaming about becoming a famous rock star, chances you're gonna make it in this business is close to 0,01 percent. I do have to mention one important thing though, i have a music degree, and yes, it is important to have a music education to make it happen. Good luck!
It's tough to make a living playing out for sure. But you made some great points, it's not the big money grab that everyone thinks it is. If I could only cash in on the exposure bucks I made over the years hahaha. Great video Dude!
Since you’re in the Twin Cities, you may know Jeff Loven. Like you, he made a living teaching, doing studio work and gigging. He eventually developed a one-man-band show where he played and sang to programmed backing tracks; he is a talented showman and was able to make that work. But that is what he had to do in order to be able to drop the teaching and jingle work, and focus on full time performance.
We've played the same stages as Jeff. Seemed like a cool dude who just had enough of the game so did it all himself. :)
Doing what you want, and what you love, makes it all worthwhile, does it not? No matter the difficulty, You'll be alright!
Very informative. Do you have any similar insight into performing a solo acoustic gig? Ex. 3 45 minute sets?
You make what youre worth, being a professional musician isnt a human right.
I play in an all original metal band and most of the money that we make goes back in to more merchandise t-shirt stickers etc. However that doesn't cover the practice time or rent at the rehearsal space. Btw I have that same Creep show t-shirt
I can't tell ya at the times I have played basically for free drinks lol... Got a house band gig one time and we were payed 400 a night between 4 of us as well as free beer the whole night. Needless to say by the 4th set our timing was impaired to say the least but by then the crowd was three sheets to the wind right along with us. I personally got em for 1 case a night lol... Those were fun times. I don't drink anymore but only play out every great now and then but as you said the pay has stayed pretty consistent throughout the years.
That borders on being cruel.
It would be interesting to hear about what you get for doing session work, and so that entails.
Great insight as always. Well..the key is NOT THINKING ABOUT IT:) I have a cover band as a hobby, and actually it's kinda stressful, because always hustling thanks to lack of time. Just have to do a revision of my gear for upcoming gigs, and always doing it in a fly late evenings/nights in a crowded space. I'm actually jelaous of my bass player, he comes, flip a switch and he's ready, and I did not even plug single cable yet..huge pedalboard because sound must be right for certain song, so much to think about. Not to mention lack of time for practicing. That is all bearable, until there are some kindergarden disaggrement and stress in a band, or my f*** drummer is out of focus..then I want to burn all my gear along with my self:P
But hey, I still really love to play and chasing the sound, so I guess you have to pay the price for every joy in life.
Painting or writing a book i think is much more relaxed hobby:P
this is why i always worked a normal 8-5 job , and considered music / gigs as a hobby , no pressure money wise .
You should also take into account a percentage of your gear cost, a very small % but it sure adds up!
Being a pro musician was never in the cards for me as I have zero practice discipline. But even if it had been, I would rather work a well paying day job and play guitar for fun on my time off.
Same here! In my band days, it was too tough getting four people together once a week. I was the only one who drove and had a car, so it added on about an hour and a half total to get people to the session, as two lived in opposite directions of the drummer's house where we played!
Also, it was virtually impossible top get everyone to agree on what songs we would play!
and...as soon as I start playing out I start shopping for gear that will improve my live act so I end up spending more than I make!
My friends in Mexico make good money as musicians. It’s completely different there, people are just willing to pay more for music and almost every party has a 1-3 bands playing at it. I’ve seen my cousin make $150 for three songs in the parking lot of a bar after his gig was done. They are crazy though, they spend every cent they make partying, and chasing women .
It’s interesting listening to someone at your level talk about this. I spent around 20 years playing on an amateur basis, and I encountered the same thing. I had numerous people say that the extra money must have come in handy. And I had to laugh. I remember many 3:30 AM check writing sessions in the booth of a crappy bar in the middle of nowhere. Here’s your $70. At the time, bass strings were 40 bucks is set. Couple that with mileage, and I was usually in the hole financially.
Or…play regularly in wedding/corporate bands and actually make decent money (minimum $300 per band member, sometimes waaay more depending on the time of the year, etc). Club/Bar gig are the worst paying gigs.
Actually, I take it back. It’s some church gigs (Not all though. Some Mega churches actually pay decent) and/or “exposure” gigs that pay the worst (if anything).
@@michaelpacinus242 if you wanna make money... yes
I got handed a $5 bill one time after a show. I initially got nothing but just as I was in my car about to pull out of the parking spot a guy from the venue comes up to my window and says "Sorry man." and handed me the 5 bucks. Talk about a Spinal Tap moment; we were booked at a legitimate venue (south of Seattle) and when we walked in the front door (myself & drummer were the first ones there) I see guys up on scaffoling repairing the ceiling/painting etc. and I was like WTF is this? So I asked them whats up and he said "Yeah, we have about 2 weeks worth of work here so you guys are playing at the end of the block at the ice cream parlor." Uhhhh, what? Next thing you know is I'm carting in my bass gear going right by the coolers that have the tubs of ice cream in it - typical ice cream shop. There was a "stage" that was about a 3" riser that we had to set up our gear on in the corner of the shop up against their big ceiling to floor windows (so you can see the sidewalk/cars going by etc.). So we got the idea to set up our gear backwards facing the sidewalk. When it was our turn to play my singers (two of them) had long enough mic cables to be out on the sidewalk. There were a lot of kids there but they didn't pay to get in as they were piled against the glass windows and were thrashing around with the singers.
It was highly embarrassing & fun at the same time. Nobody told us that the real venue was under repair and that we would be playing an ice cream shop. I guess that's why I only warranted getting $5 and that was out of mercy. Everyone else left with no money & was pissed and when I got the $5 I just handed it to my guitar player since he was the most infuriated. True story that happened in the late 90's.
Same here with bands in Caribbean...doin covers
This is so true!!!!!!! Epecially when you open up for nationals! Just an example, opening for Quiet Riot.$50 each. 4 hours of time inlcuding performance! Fun times though! :)
I remember the first time I played CBGB’s and they gave us $50. There were 5 of us in the band so it was $10 each. We had to drive into the city, pay the GWB toll, gas etc. So obviously you weren’t making anything. A month later at another gig I was talking to someone from another band and he thought I was lying that they “paid us.” 😂
I was guessing $4 but $2 is ouch. My brother got hooked up with a local Folk Band, the woman had a name and is mid 70s but, the can play every weekend and he will bring home 150 minimum. Not bad but, he still has a 9 to5. It's almost impossible not too.
Weddings/Corporates is really the only way to gain a living wage from playing covers live. Bar gigs are actually more fun to play in my experience though and an alternative perspective is getting that £60 is more then you'd earn then sitting at home not playing.
I think the users saying to adjust prices are perhaps underestimating the budgets that bars/pubs have for live music. In my area it's around £300-£350 and so if you set your pricing up to something like £500 (£100ea for a 5 piece band), then you won't get a gig.
Country and region specific of course..
It’s funny having done both covers and originals it’s such a trade off. You can make in my area of Canada 60-100ish bucks a person in my four person cover band but the downside is you have to play some lame bar music. The other end of it I’ve played motorhead style hard rock and toured when I was younger and literally spent money to play every show. At this point in my life with a day job and kids I’ve realized I’m never gonna make it from music but I will play for the rest of my life because I love it.
I’m just a million bucks short of being a millionaire! My friends have a sweet gig as a house band on a cruise boat, just a 2 piece drums/keyboard and get $500 a night (250 each) plus tips! But sadly they do the same exact set/jokes/everything the same every night and that would drive me crazy.
Yeah, its called a "working" band for a reason.
Fun is playing for friends and family at a barbeque 😂
It would beat doing the same work in a factory or office every day although it would take some of your passion for music away in your downtime
that def sounds like a "job". Probably better than constructor worker or MC donalds, but the mental side probably go to drain faster than there..
I guess at the end of the day the fun factor is also there to make it worthwhile
So my band and I usually make about $75 at a show (as we’ve been opening for a couple local tribute bands, our next show is with a KISS tribute this June) but the last show I played was a few weeks ago on April 1 (yes, April Fools Day and it was our first headlining gig and we had a few of our friends’ bands open for us, the show went well save for some technical difficulties (which oddly lined up well for what day it was). Anyways, my band ended up making $300 from ticket sales and also had to pay the sound guy $210 (which is how it works at the venue I normally play at) so as a result of that there were $90 left over and we gave each band an equal share so at the end of the show we ended up getting paid $30. Granted we didn’t really do the best planning since this was our first big headlining performance so we didn’t fully know what we were doing and there was a big dispute about money but thankfully we got it solved fairly quickly and we all vowed never to do the way we sold tickets (which was with physical copies) again because of how difficult it was
Right on point!