Love the mad men videos! Also I said this a few years ago and I respect the fact that you don’t wanna do a whole lot of Mad Men content, but I would donate a bunch to Patreon to get a Lane Pryce analysis. Name your price man😂
Also just to be clear I’m not specifically gunning for a huge analysis, even just a super short video analyzing one of his great scenes (him and don at the theatre, him trying to kiss Joan, his attempted suicide by car). And if you aren’t into the idea I totally understand and will continue to watch your content every new upload🤟
I was always terribly unsatisfied with Ginsberg's arc. He was a brilliant threat, there was tension growing between him and Don... and then he just went crazy and went away. Huh? That really felt like a punt from the writing team. Did I miss something? Was there something deeper and more thematic about his cutting his nipple of and getting out Don's hair that I missed?
Don is also infuriated by Ginsberg's self-assuredness. Ginsberg doesn't make any attempt to hide his Jewishness, his eccentricities, the things that society says he should be ashamed of. Don hides everything about himself and his past in order to live the American dream. And it bothers him that someone like Ginsberg can be successful without playing the same game he did.
Good point about Don's shame re: his past, and also interesting that today's fame-oriented generation, for whom appearances and 'winning' is everything (but now for different reasons), simply sees Don's parting shot as just another opportunity for 'one-upmanship'.
You left out the smoking gun -- in a prior scene (I haven't seen this in years) Don is shown alone in his office going through past accounts and notices that virtually all of them are from Ginsberg.
The scene foreshadows the Season 7 Burger Chef situation where Don suggests a different approach to the strategy, and Peggy runs with it, trashing her old idea and coming up with something new based on Don's contribution. Don's spark is back and Peggy doesn't have his ego and goes with the better idea when she could have "pulled a Don" and rejected his input, proving that the student has outgrown the master by being dedicated to the best work, not petty jealousy.
@@sebeckley Actually Peggy is the one with petty jealousy and abuse of colleagues, while Don never treated her like that and had the reputation to be incredible loyal and supportive to his team. Peggy was the polar opposite as a boss. Maybe she learned in the end but she never had the actual character qualities of Don. It was incredible that basically a CEO still had the ability to perform on the level of their most talented copy writer.
I know you had to keep this video to a reasonable length but I think the more critical set up to this whole thing of "not thinking about him at all" is the night he spent peeking at Ginsbergs ideas ahead of time and developing his own idea which he pretends was off-the-cuff in their meeting, it shows how deeply he thinks of Ginsberg
Another ironic thing about Ginsberg is how that initially Ted viewed Don as this incredible enigma and titanic talent who made him really insecure of his own talents. However when he started working with Don he sort of dropped all that but then when Cutler wanted to fire Ginsberg Ted told him how crazy he was for that based on the fact that Ginsberg was immensely talented. It was like his admiration toward Don had shifted to Ginsberg because of his incredibly creative mind. I love Ginsberg as well.
This was part of the reason I hated my marketing job, it was more about the ego of the company over actual good ideas. Whatever presents itself and makes the ego of superiors satisfied. As long as the idea or concept is acceptable and the bosses idea that is all that mattered. Especially as the older generation begins to exit the workforce. Great video.
I used to work in advertising. I drew their ideas up for the client, because the art directors and copyrighted couldn't. Their smugness hiding their lack of talent combined with their oversized egos and insecurities sickened me. I grew to hate the business. I've been forced into a semi-retirement now, but my talent will always be mine.
@@sevirz13 I ended up going into a welding program after leaving the marketing job and then after getting my journeyman's ticket and having 6 years experience under my belt I signed up for the undersea welding course that was a lot of training and money, but honestly in this market and the crazy prices on housing I needed this job so I could get myself a house. I made a downpaynent for it within the first year, but yeah its a very dangerous work, you legally only can do it for 10 years and then you have to stop because of the toll it takes on your body. And I am in my 3rd year of doing it. No complaints so far.
One of the many things I love about Mad Men is that on its surface, at least early on, it seems aspirational. Don is just so cool, so suave, so much of what I, growing up in the 80s, was told I should want to be. However, as soon as you start paying attention, you realize it's anything but aspirational. Don is profoundly sad, lost, and frankly a depressing to watch human. Peggy is deeply weird and sort of pathetic, in spite of her skill and grit. Betty is a shell of 1950s WASP Fantasy. Joan is thwarted by the machine of society at every turn. Pete, in a lot of ways is the male version of Betty, the empty and soulless horror of the post-War American Dream. He gets everything he wants, but is incapable of being happy. Love it.
I agree, I think Madmen shows us how we are sold the illusion of the "American Dream." But also, how we WANT to be sold the illusion, and how we can't get enough of it, regardless of whether we recognize it as a hollow pursuit or not
Yes it is a somewhat dystopian reality but I disagree with most of your character evaluations. Don is a narcissistic fraud living a lie he stole his name from someone else in the war and can't be honest with anyone I certainly would not compare Pete to Betty Betty doesn't have everything she wants she wants her husband to love her not to cheat and lie that's why she's unhappy on the shrinks couch he gaslights her screws around Pete cheats on his wife also and you think Peggy is weird well she had Pete's bastard baby and then just had to pretend that never happened either Joan is a voluptuous women so she doesn't get the respect she deserves but she likes the other attention she gets sometimes too anyway she makes more effort than Peggy in the sex appeal department but Peggy hopes being more drab will get her more respect and it doesn't. I have more sympathy for Betty than Pete he's extremely disappointing a weasel and not even very attractive.
Thank you! The common interpretation of that scene bugs me. Although I'll argue I think the misunderstanding of the scene reflects a deeper issue in our society. Namely that internal confidence, coherence and identity is de-emphasized in favor of dunking on people and making yourself look good. The goal isn't to be confident, it's to knock everyone else down and look confident yourself. The inner reality doesn't matter.
I just adore the character of Ginsberg, especially with the Snoball arc, whereas Don (as most of the suits in Mad Men) are attempting to be suave and duplicitous, Ginsberg is an unfiltered colorful mind, his Snoball pitch worked better because it's a drink for children! Ginsberg's visual is hilarious, while Don's piece is trying to lean more on looking cool and clever through an unmentioned pun.
The power dynamics, where the contrast between the establish vs young turks in the group. Protocol and position that can be more important than, and the latter subject to being dismissed.
Once Don left Ginsberg's ad in the cab, how could anyone think that Don is a confident badass when he says that line to Ginsberg in the elevator? The only reason Ginsburg is second guessing himself with that facial expression at the end of the encounter is because Don gaslit the shit out of him. Also, if you watch the series up to this episode, it is clear that Don is deeply insecure - I mean just the fact that he adopted an entirely new identity to live what he thinks is his best life, says it all.
@@0_Katt_0 I agree, the only thing I liked about him was the fact that he didn't call all the women in the office condescending and inappropriate names like "Honey" and "Sweetheart" like all the other men. He was pretty smooth, though.
@Mkat He is deeply, deeply flawed and definitely shouldn’t be looked up to as a person. However, he has a lot of surface level qualities that are easy to admire. He’s articulate and well-dressed; he’s way ahead of his time in his tolerance of race, sex, and sexuality; and he’s incredibly charismatic. Definitely a lot wrong on the inside, but it’s easy to admire the outside.
@@0_Katt_0they idolize Don Draper the idea. A handsome smooth talking ladies man they can talk any woman’s panties into a puddle with ease. But it’s all a front
Very well done examination. It's all the more interesting because it tells you exactly why the show is popular. Some folks watch Mad Men and instantly pick up on the subtext, that Don's image of success and confidence is all smoke and mirrors. That's clear from episode 1, and it only deepens throughout the series. It's emphasized again and again as the entire statement of the show, on both a microcosmic and macrocosmic level. But there's a huge audience out there that just wants the image. It's not that they don't know it's an image. But for many, many people, presenting an image of strength is the same as being strong, presenting an image of confidence and success IS confidence and success. The image is the substance. What's beneath doesn't matter. It's weakness. And the goal of life is to hide it, to bury it. So they see Don's story as the struggle to find the strength to maintain the image, to bury his weaknesses. Just as Don himself sees it. So when he puts Ginsberg in his place, to these viewers, it doesn't matter that Don is lying when. It only matters that the stone-cold line is the ultimate shut-down. The true horror of humanity is that a huge portion of people aren't looking for truth, or self-acceptance, or healing. They're looking for strength, confidence, and success. And the parts of themselves that get in the way of that are to be repressed, or blamed on someone else. So when they watch Mad Men, or Breaking Bad for that matter, they see a very different show. And the thing is, we're all guilty of enjoying the power of Don Draper's image-making. The thrill of seeing Don prevail through self-delusion and seductive lies is undeniable. But when Don makes an ad that tells us that whatever we're doing is okay, we all know it'll end in cancer. But some of us just want to hear that we're okay, even though we're not.
God thank you!! I have been so vexed by how people just don't understand this scene. People interpret it as some badass Mike drop moment but really it is one of Don's pathetic and petty moments!
I think most people who watch the entire show know it’s one of Don’s petty moments. Sure, it’s a great meme if you just take it at face value, but in the show you know Don is threatened by him.
There are some losers irl who idolize don. Which is funny to me, since Dons character just comes across as extremely insecure and miserable the entire show. Not “cool” or likable at all
They're not wrong. Draper showed that he doesn't respect Ginsburg and that point came across to Ginsburg. To Ginsburg's point, he should take this as a teaching moment and learn what he can about the environment he works in knowing that one day he'll surpass Draper.
The “I don’t think about you at all” is a reference to a conversation between the protagonist and antagonist of The Fountainhead. It’s a truly epic shutdown of a self described megalomaniac. Here it appears to be twisted around to a false bravado.
Mad Men is a great show, but Don Draper is a character that left me feeling enormously sad almost every episode. He was such a flawed man. Yes, very "cool" and brilliant in many ways, but someone whose weaknesses and self-destructive tendencies took almost everything he loved away from him. Jon Hamm and of course the whole creative team behind the show did incredible work.
Thats the point. Stories are based on conflict. External and internal ones. And if the character you created is perfect in every way - you only get to use external conflicts but also your protagonist will be stagnant and boring. You will have 7 seasons of shit happening to him but since he is already perfect - nothing of that have any affect on him. Both uninteresting and unrealistic.
I was so disappointed with how the show handled his character. There wasn't at arc at all. He abruptly goes all loopy and then just kind of vanishes from the show. wtf? I was hoping the show was going to further develop his rivalry with Don.
Ginsberg is one of my favorite Mad Men characters. So much so that I wrote a short story about him. Тhis scene is pretty straightforward, I think the only people who misunderstand it are those who don't watch the series. Don Draper is a typical "literally me" character and you'd have to be pretty dim to miss all of his antagonistic traits. There is this new childishness in movies and series that prevails in the last decade which is indulged by big studios out of unsurprising desire for profits, but one of the key ingredients to a great story still is a flawed protagonist. You can't have the story progress if the character is perfect, but especially on the internet and in the media we see a huge trend of viewers who seem to be missing this point. The thing is Mad Men is so well made and unlike movies with antagonistic leads has much more runtime to delve into the meat of the characters, you really have to be stupid to miss the context that makes this scene much more meaningful than a simple "sick burn" moment... Especially the scene where he leaves Ginsberg's idea in the car is such a bad look for Draper and shows his true colors. The elevator scene just seals the deal as in "oh yeah, Draper is an absolute tosser". And it's not like there aren't beautiful scenes that really help you relate to the character either, he's just not two-dimensional and black-and-white, he is a complex character. All of the Mad Men characters are really... even the most charming ones have their 15 minutes of shame moments.
I love how they repeatedly cut to Peggy's face during the feedback meeting. She clearly thinks Don's idea is awful and is in shock that everyone is humoring him.
Peggy was more caught off guard because Don thought of an idea from scratch Instead of building on one of the copywriters ideas, like Creative Directors do. Peggy for her faults is brutally honest and if she thought the idea stunk, she'd said so IMO. Especially considering the relationship Don and Peggy have, she is one who Don is most honest with in the whole show. It's never been said on camera but IMO Don told her at some point about his false identity. This is laid out in the last episode when he calls her and says :I took another man's name and made nothing of it". And Peggy didn't bat an eye or take a gasp. She knew what he was talking about. With that said, she like MGs idea better, but also thought Don's was good.
@@pyropulseIXXI--Because it was pitched to adults BY an adult. Ginsburg’s idea was aimed at kids, even hitting a pig was funny. In a way it’s appealing to the adults that buy the product, kids might actually be frightened by that devil.
@@davidmascio1896 I don't think he would have told her, but I think she definitely knew there was something going on there. Can't remember specific examples but I think Pete or somebody might have given her some clues along the way
Its funny how when I first watched the episode, I understood it. The show makes it quite clear that Don cares about this a lot, and that Ginsberg's words were true. But when I watched the scene randomly on youtube, it felt totally different. It really seems like Don "owned him"
I always thought Don was speaking the truth in the way that he wasn't thinking about Ginsberg as a person, but more the work he's able to put in, like Don is thinking about his skill and talent, but not actually considering Ginsberg's feelings outside of that. Thanks for the video though, I appreciate the clarification!
That's exactly how I viewed it as well. When he said, "I don't think about you at all", I took it as, "I don't [care] about you at all".. He meant it as an emotional jab, and it worked. He doesn't care about his feelings, but he does care about how Ginsburg is full of never-ending great ideas and how he is becoming stagnant and he feels threatened by that.
It was a true representation of poor leadership. A leader doesn’t have to have all the ideas, they have to know how to manage their teams and leverage their creativity and talents.
Don does the same thing in "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword" when a New York Times reporter quotes Ted Chaough, saying "Every time Don Draper looks in his rearview mirror, he sees me," and Don replies, "I’ve never heard of him,".
That was different because Ted spent the entire 4th season being a horse's ass, and he certainly didn't pose some kind of existential crisis to Don the way Ginsburg did (or was at least contributing to)
It's very similar to the case of Peggy and Don arguing of her idea that made him win an award, and she just wants from him to recognize her while Don was falling into a complete downard spiral. Taking out of context people assume Peggy is only a snowflake while Don "says facts" about she will have her moment and that's why she was paid for (while their whole relationship wasn't never impersonal). He tried so hard to convince her and himself that he still had control, and splits their relationship in half because she knows he is at the verge and only authority is what keeps him afloat and not his creativity prowess. This series is just brilliant.
I agree to the things said in the video. But there is an additional layer after all that, where Don came out on top. Layer 1. Where viewers only see the cool one liner. Layer 2. That is explained in the video, where Don is actually taken back and Ginsberg really hot under his skin. Level 3. ...is that Don - in the elevator - actually showed an example why he is the best of the two. As someone that has worked against advertising agencies since the 90s, i can assure you that Ginsbefg would have been burned in less than a year no matter where he worked. Just coming up,with good ideas isn't enough. Even coming up with brilliant amazing ideas isn't enough if you cant work them. And that goes for every creative craft - You can be the worlds most brilliant ad man, sculptor, painter, pastry chef... whatever - if you can't promote your idea, sell your idea, and bring your idea from start to finish... Then you haven't got all that it takes. Ginsberg spits out ideas like a machine gun ("I've got a thousand of them!") . But he hasn't got the skill or the personality to land them. Don does. He has the manners, and the rhetoric, the timing and the skill to know exactly where to strike home when he wants to make a point. And in the same way, Ginsberg spits out half accusations and half insults at Don in a frantic rate in the elevator. But that doesn't give Ginsberg a win, because he isn't good at that. He isn't selling it... Don is. Even if it is an act, he casualty delivers his "one liner" that crushes Ginsberg, and walks away a winner. At least in his opponents eye. That is a needed skill in advertising. Call it Fake it till you make it, or whatever. But if you can't drive home your creations, you realy arent the entire package. Don does all and more, and that's why he is sitting in the corner office.
Corrrect! Don wanted to only go in with one pitch, he thought he could pitch his idea better. It's that simple! Don showed no signs of being threatened by Ginsberg's talent!
I havent watched a single episode of mad men, i just watch the video to see your interpretation of any scene. There always something to reflectionate about
Yep, it'a a savage line by Don, but I always thought him saying that was an L. Like you said, of course Don thinks about him. So it was just a deflection because what was said hurt him. Also, I always felt the "one who knocks" scene was also clearly an indication of Walt's solidified villanism. I feel like people who think it was a "cool" or "savage" moment from Walt also can identify that it was not a good one too
Don clearly wanted to prove himself as still top dog after looking thru ginsberg's folder on a weekend before. He saw it and laughed, then instead of going home, he stayed and came up with the devil bit. However, Don was still going back and forth in the cab. Looking at both and deciding even as they pulled up to the meeting. So although it was clear Don wanted to use his idea, he was still thinking if MG's was the one to use.
Michael was one of my favorite characters. He was funny, interesting, and a great foil to both Don and Peggy. Was very sad they ended his story in the way they did.
Out of context, the line is a slam dunk comeback. Which is why people love it. But you're right, anyone who knows the show knows Don is lying in this moment.
Roger had a similar moment with Pete, only Roger seemingly did the opposite of what Don did by letting go. The scene with him giving Pete those skis demonstrated it all....
The real shame was that the two campaigns could've worked in sequence. Start with people being hit by snowballs from a mysterious thrower. Then, when the public has been hooked wondering who is throwing the snowballs, reveal that it's the Devil just having a little fun.
@@andrewdunn8778 in such a way he had to transfer? That's bad. But he seems like the kind of frat boy bully he looks. I really hope he had become a better human since, one can only hope....
MY COMMENTS WILL CONTAIN SPOILER FOR THE WHOLE SHOW This is kinda off-topic, but I just wanted to say that Michael Ginsberg is one of my favorite characters on the show and I think that the reason for that is how neat his whole arc is. Almost every little piece of information that is presented during the show come full circle and leads to his tragic end. For example, there is the whole awkward conversation that he had with Peggy about being adopted and being born on a concentration camp. Before he reveals that, he says that he is from Mars. While some people thought that was weird, when I first watched the episode, I thought that he was joking in his awkward way because he was uncomfortable talking about his family. Anyway, what impacted me the most in the confrontation between Don and Ginsberg was his line about how he got a million of ideas. That is one of the reasons his ending is so tragic to me. Oh, and I would like to thank you. It was your video about The Wheel episode that made me watch this show. I’m also watching Attack on Titan partially because of you, although the main reason is the controversial ending that made me curious.
I didn't Iike what they did to his character. Seemed like a stunt by the writers. I wanted him to end up with his blind date. She was a good actress and would have made a good addition to the show and to Ginsberg's life.
It's a great dramatic choice in movies or TV to say the opposite of what you're truly feeling inside. I actually use it in real life on occasion when somebody says something to me and I'm not quite sure what to make of it and so I go with the most dramatic opposite choice in knowing what somebody is truly feeling internally.
I was thinking the most quoted/known line was THAT’S WHAT THE MONEY IS FOR! Lol. There’s a yt video of Don just saying What too….after I saw that I couldn’t get out if my head how much he does say What? Great analysis!
Thanks for this video. That elevator line from Don was such a wonderful use of irony and why I loved that show so much. It was frustrating to see the meme of it saying the opposite.
DD was bothered which is why it was such a great line. It was a brushback pitch and it was delivered perfectly. The point was to get in Ginsburg's head and to remind him who was in charge without losing his cool. That way he left Ginsburg with enough self respect for him to continue to work productively with DD.
Peggy told Don once when she was comparing him and Ted that basically Ted was interested in "the" idea but Don was only interested in "his" idea. I know most consider Don the protagonist of this show but honestly the only person on this show that I personally consider a protagonist is actually Ken Cosgrove. He seems to be the only one with a true moral compass of all the main characters. He never cheats on his wife. He is always honest. He always tries to do what is right and expects it of others. He never tries to prop himself up and even uses a "pen name" to write sci-fi stories that are actually quite good. Compare that to all the other characters and their infidelities and moral shadiness and he's about the only one that comes out at the end with his conscience still clean. I'm not meaning this to sound judgmental or anything of all the other characters. Just an observation. I love the show and honestly I don't even know if the writers themselves wanted us to think of the characters in terms of "good guys and bad guys". There is tons of ambiguity in the vast majority of the series.
Interesting how the devil in Don’s ad looks as if he’s riding in the back of car, just as Don was when he left Ginsberg’s idea behind… “THis Could Change Everything.” Indeed it did.
Draper was a ball of insecurity wrapped in a cloak of cool smugness (and some real ethical/values challenges as well ) it took the back of the fridge guy to help put things in perspective and balance him out.
I agree with you 100%, however in Don's favor one must say Ginsberg was clearly not the kind of person thinking for the group; he clearly was a menace to DOn because he wanted his job, he was just as selfish as Don was. So, basically my point, is that it was about a wolf biting the wolf that wants to get him out
Lmaooo wanted his job? No Ginsberg is just too honest and didn’t understand business. But there was no way he thought he would get his job i mean dons name is literally on the company. He just did something the corporate world hates. An underlying rightly calling out his boss
One piece that aligns with what you're saying - Matt Weiner said that he always envisioned Don dead by the early '80s, a victim of hard living and stress.
Great stuff. I always thought the writers really screwed it up by deciding to just make Ginsberg have a psychotic break for no particular reason. If I was writing the show I would have had a longer arc where he gets fed up with the WASPs and advertising and takes a job working for the Eugene McCarthy campaign or starts doing art full time for the Moratorium to End the War in Vietnam or something like that.
At a creative agency the best ideas have to win. Don is insecure, and not caring about junior creative’s input is just bad management and bad business - people will leave if their ideas aren’t even given a chance.
I’m thoroughly convinced that this scene is inspired but The Fountainhead where Ellsworth Toowey asks Howard Roark to tell him what he thinks about him. To which Roark replies “but I don’t think of you”. There is one instance in the series where Ayn Rand, the author of The Fountainhead is referenced. Leading me to believe the writes where aware of this scene.
This wasn't the clip I was looking for, but you got my view because the description cited 13 Sentinels tracks and I was curious how a Mad Men video would be using them.
I think you're missing another angle. Don may have chosen his for another reason- sellability. He understands and can articulate it better than Ginsberg's idea.
I think it stands out, with or without context, because the insult attacks that which his adversaries hold most dear; their ego. This isn’t the only time he chooses this line of attack either. I seem to recall him doing the same thing when a reporter asked him to comment on a rival. “On the record? Never heard of him.”
I loved the episodes where Don would journal his thoughts. really gave a good insight into his way of thinking more, which I think the whole show could benefitted from if it was tastefully added throughout the seasons
Nice analysis. Mad Men is a show deep enough so that it pays to revisit/analyse it. And this was thoughtful and made a clear point, well argued. You've got a new subscriber.
If I were Ginsberg, I wouldn't let Draper get away with that. I would have worked up a rough sketch of my idea and I'd have taken it to the client and presented it to them in person. I've been in similar situations and I know that what I'm suggesting would be a risk but I'd have taken it.
And he would have been insta-fired and probably blackballed. This was not something anyone would do in the 1960s advertising industry, or the 1960s anything industry really.
I mean whoever thought that Don was the “alpha” in that situation and that he was that confident and powerful man didn’t understand anything about Mad Men.
It really is the absolute best. I love me some Sopranos and The Wire and all that good stuff, but nothing comes close to Mad Men. It's like reading a huge novel.
that ginsberg was a creative guy and would have rose very high if his mental health didn't deteriorate but honestly don's idea on this account was so much better
I also like choice of words used in this scene used by each character. This may be nit-picky but notice how Ginsburg says "I FEEL bad for you" and Don immediately and defensively responds "I don"t THINK about you at all". Ginsburg had only mentioned that he had felt bad for him not mentioning at all whether he thinks about him or not.
The scene from Breaking Bad where Walter White tells Skyler, "I am the one who knocks" to assert his dominance, the scene from The Sopranos where Tony Soprano confronts Perry, and the elevator with Ginsberg scene all explore the inner vulnerabilities of the main characters.
As someone who's been a copywriter in advertising, I've always been shocked by how the best idea doesn't always win. It's infuriating to have a creative director sabotage an idea before the client even has time to do it. We always went in with at least three campaigns. I know there's at least 100 different schools of thought on the idea of how many ideas to bring to the client. But to bring in just one idea is risky as hell. IMHO, Don leaving Ginsberg's ideas in the cab was one of the biggest betrayals in the whole series.
Excellent analysis, and spot on. This happens in the corporate world all of the time. Once people get in a position of power they don't want to lose it.
The first thing I noticed in the office at 2:30, is that the men are dressed in various colors, while Peggy's dress blends in completely with the sofa. Very subtle, but deliberate.
Everyone walked around that office as if they were the saviors, that’s what Mad Men is all about. Maybe you have something personal against Ginsberg, but he’s just like anyone else: thirsty of recognition and power.
It’s funny exactly what you said we don’t understand is EXACTLY what we understand. It’s Bad Ass because it’s a zinger in the moment. Everyone in the type of situation is lying about not thinking of the threat, but if delivered right, the line gets thoroughly under the skin of the upstart.
@dellwright1407 except the dude bros who admire Don Draper and the the puritans who abhor him are equally objectively shallow. The complex traumas of almost all the characters on the show are too painful for most to willfully grasp. The popularity of the show creates a reductive narrative for the casual viewer
I think the momentum of Ginsberg is being overplayed in the analysis - he wasn't anywhere near close to being a threat to Don. But in some ways, that SUPPORTS your argument about Don's pettiness. That even a guy as low in the totem pole as Ginsberg can make him feel insecure. Don never really achieves freedom until the Coca Cola commercial...
This line, “I don’t think of you at all,” is directly lifted from Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead when Howard Roark tells Toohey, “But I don’t think of you.”
Although common issue and reflective in the real world (ie. ego, authoritarian, etc), Ginsberg had a great idea but executed poorly. He should blame himself for not committing all the way and see that his idea and service come to fruition. If he ever became a great salesman, the idea would be conceived and implanted into Don's mind...
Ginsberg then goes a bit loopy and is taken away for treatment. He was no Don as the first few life hurdles caused him to crash to the ground in a heap and that was that. Assuming that if things went better he would not end up in a similar fashion is just totally incorrect as getting some setbacks at work is just Monday-Friday for most people. All roads lead to Rome sometimes.
In Don and the rest of creative defense…. Ginsberg was a prick the whole episode, you can see him mocking Don saying things like “wow that’s actually good” in a surprise way while presenting his idea to the group and you can see Peggy and Stan faces like they just had enough with Ginsberg attitude. I believe that Don was trying to teach him a lesson that he is not the only genius on the team, that is why he left his creative idea in the cab.
Ginsberg was tactless but correct. Don was washed up. And he was out of line in how he communicated it, this is true, but Don’s motive wasn’t “I need him to learn his lesson,” it was “I feel threatened”
@@Aleczandxr Could be both, I mean we know that Don always tries to shoot two birds with one bullet. Like he did when promoting Peggy to a Junior Copywriter.
@@Aleczandxr That’s true, there are still some deep developments that come up, I’ve watched the whole series like 20+ times and still learning new meanings to several scenes.
Regardless of Don’s true feelings, it’s a great comeback to “I feel sorry for you,” which is what Ginsburg says to him. And even more impressive given that it is the opposite of how Don feels.
Very good point, though I would add that Don isn't completely lying here. Although Don clearly thought about this specific case a lot, it does seem like it impacted his career and general state a lot less than it impacted Ginsberg, but he wanted to keep his cool and say it didn't matter at all. I would also add that Don seems to be mostly thinking about 'work' instead of thinking of Ginsberg personally, hence that statement.
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Of course, not EVERYONE misunderstands it. Probably just a sizeable portion. But you know, RUclips titles and all that.
the youtube title got me so it's working
Love the mad men videos! Also I said this a few years ago and I respect the fact that you don’t wanna do a whole lot of Mad Men content, but I would donate a bunch to Patreon to get a Lane Pryce analysis. Name your price man😂
Also just to be clear I’m not specifically gunning for a huge analysis, even just a super short video analyzing one of his great scenes (him and don at the theatre, him trying to kiss Joan, his attempted suicide by car). And if you aren’t into the idea I totally understand and will continue to watch your content every new upload🤟
I was always terribly unsatisfied with Ginsberg's arc. He was a brilliant threat, there was tension growing between him and Don... and then he just went crazy and went away. Huh? That really felt like a punt from the writing team. Did I miss something? Was there something deeper and more thematic about his cutting his nipple of and getting out Don's hair that I missed?
Isn't that line from Ayn Rand the Fountainhead?? I think so.
Don is also infuriated by Ginsberg's self-assuredness. Ginsberg doesn't make any attempt to hide his Jewishness, his eccentricities, the things that society says he should be ashamed of. Don hides everything about himself and his past in order to live the American dream. And it bothers him that someone like Ginsberg can be successful without playing the same game he did.
Yes absolutely, but it’s worth noting that Ginsberg is not Jewish; he’s a Martian.
Good point about Don's shame re: his past, and also interesting that today's fame-oriented generation, for whom appearances and 'winning' is everything (but now for different reasons), simply sees Don's parting shot as just another opportunity for 'one-upmanship'.
! B
Especially considering they come from similar economic backgrounds, albeit rural and urban social backgrounds for Don and Ginsburg respectively.
WRONG
You left out the smoking gun -- in a prior scene (I haven't seen this in years) Don is shown alone in his office going through past accounts and notices that virtually all of them are from Ginsberg.
The scene foreshadows the Season 7 Burger Chef situation where Don suggests a different approach to the strategy, and Peggy runs with it, trashing her old idea and coming up with something new based on Don's contribution. Don's spark is back and Peggy doesn't have his ego and goes with the better idea when she could have "pulled a Don" and rejected his input, proving that the student has outgrown the master by being dedicated to the best work, not petty jealousy.
Also, didn't Don go the (empty) office on a Sunday afternoon and start looking thru Ginsbergs ideas folder? And in there was the cartoon devil idea?
Exactly. Which is why it is so disappointing what the writers did with Ginsberg. He should have thrived.
@@ApoloniaJones1976absolutely!
@@sebeckley Actually Peggy is the one with petty jealousy and abuse of colleagues, while Don never treated her like that and had the reputation to be incredible loyal and supportive to his team. Peggy was the polar opposite as a boss. Maybe she learned in the end but she never had the actual character qualities of Don.
It was incredible that basically a CEO still had the ability to perform on the level of their most talented copy writer.
Don is the lie. That’s what makes the show so great. You seldom see the real man behind the mask. I love the explanation of this scene.
I think the viewer consistently sees the real man, he doesn't.
I know you had to keep this video to a reasonable length but I think the more critical set up to this whole thing of "not thinking about him at all" is the night he spent peeking at Ginsbergs ideas ahead of time and developing his own idea which he pretends was off-the-cuff in their meeting, it shows how deeply he thinks of Ginsberg
Another ironic thing about Ginsberg is how that initially Ted viewed Don as this incredible enigma and titanic talent who made him really insecure of his own talents. However when he started working with Don he sort of dropped all that but then when Cutler wanted to fire Ginsberg Ted told him how crazy he was for that based on the fact that Ginsberg was immensely talented. It was like his admiration toward Don had shifted to Ginsberg because of his incredibly creative mind. I love Ginsberg as well.
The thing is it seems to me Don was thinking about "work" more than he was thinking of Ginsberg personally
This was part of the reason I hated my marketing job, it was more about the ego of the company over actual good ideas. Whatever presents itself and makes the ego of superiors satisfied. As long as the idea or concept is acceptable and the bosses idea that is all that mattered. Especially as the older generation begins to exit the workforce. Great video.
I hope you're working in a better place now.
@@calcelmoanayru5870 I ended up switching careers tbh. I found my white collar job to be very mundane and tedious. Now Im an undersea welder.
@@Ashguy733 one of the highest fatility rate jobs. But mad money. You go to school for that or what?
I used to work in advertising. I drew their ideas up for the client, because the art directors and copyrighted couldn't. Their smugness hiding their lack of talent combined with their oversized egos and insecurities sickened me. I grew to hate the business. I've been forced into a semi-retirement now, but my talent will always be mine.
@@sevirz13 I ended up going into a welding program after leaving the marketing job and then after getting my journeyman's ticket and having 6 years experience under my belt I signed up for the undersea welding course that was a lot of training and money, but honestly in this market and the crazy prices on housing I needed this job so I could get myself a house. I made a downpaynent for it within the first year, but yeah its a very dangerous work, you legally only can do it for 10 years and then you have to stop because of the toll it takes on your body. And I am in my 3rd year of doing it. No complaints so far.
One of the many things I love about Mad Men is that on its surface, at least early on, it seems aspirational. Don is just so cool, so suave, so much of what I, growing up in the 80s, was told I should want to be. However, as soon as you start paying attention, you realize it's anything but aspirational. Don is profoundly sad, lost, and frankly a depressing to watch human. Peggy is deeply weird and sort of pathetic, in spite of her skill and grit. Betty is a shell of 1950s WASP Fantasy. Joan is thwarted by the machine of society at every turn. Pete, in a lot of ways is the male version of Betty, the empty and soulless horror of the post-War American Dream. He gets everything he wants, but is incapable of being happy.
Love it.
Are you Jewish by any chance?
I agree, I think Madmen shows us how we are sold the illusion of the "American Dream." But also, how we WANT to be sold the illusion, and how we can't get enough of it, regardless of whether we recognize it as a hollow pursuit or not
@@joecruz03 Are you Jewish?
Yes it is a somewhat dystopian reality but I disagree with most of your character evaluations. Don is a narcissistic fraud living a lie he stole his name from someone else in the war and can't be honest with anyone I certainly would not compare Pete to Betty Betty doesn't have everything she wants she wants her husband to love her not to cheat and lie that's why she's unhappy on the shrinks couch he gaslights her screws around Pete cheats on his wife also and you think Peggy is weird well she had Pete's bastard baby and then just had to pretend that never happened either Joan is a voluptuous women so she doesn't get the respect she deserves but she likes the other attention she gets sometimes too anyway she makes more effort than Peggy in the sex appeal department but Peggy hopes being more drab will get her more respect and it doesn't. I have more sympathy for Betty than Pete he's extremely disappointing a weasel and not even very attractive.
@@marty2090 Are you Jewish?
Thank you! The common interpretation of that scene bugs me.
Although I'll argue I think the misunderstanding of the scene reflects a deeper issue in our society. Namely that internal confidence, coherence and identity is de-emphasized in favor of dunking on people and making yourself look good. The goal isn't to be confident, it's to knock everyone else down and look confident yourself. The inner reality doesn't matter.
Almost like using the advertising industry to examine modern society is an especially effective tool, when "inner reality doesn't matter."
I just adore the character of Ginsberg, especially with the Snoball arc, whereas Don (as most of the suits in Mad Men) are attempting to be suave and duplicitous, Ginsberg is an unfiltered colorful mind, his Snoball pitch worked better because it's a drink for children! Ginsberg's visual is hilarious, while Don's piece is trying to lean more on looking cool and clever through an unmentioned pun.
The power dynamics, where the contrast between the establish vs young turks in the group. Protocol
and position that can be more important than, and the latter subject to being dismissed.
Add in Peggy’s pitch, and you have 3 contrasting demographics
And as we ultimately find out, a very unhinged mind
@@harrisfleming7431 Not uncommon for a true artist such as Ginsberg.
Dons idea was, in other words, silly and desperate.
Once Don left Ginsberg's ad in the cab, how could anyone think that Don is a confident badass when he says that line to Ginsberg in the elevator? The only reason Ginsburg is second guessing himself with that facial expression at the end of the encounter is because Don gaslit the shit out of him. Also, if you watch the series up to this episode, it is clear that Don is deeply insecure - I mean just the fact that he adopted an entirely new identity to live what he thinks is his best life, says it all.
Dons character is extremely insecure and seeks approval the entire show. Idk how people idolize him? He just comes across as insecure and miserable
@@0_Katt_0 I agree, the only thing I liked about him was the fact that he didn't call all the women in the office condescending and inappropriate names like "Honey" and "Sweetheart" like all the other men. He was pretty smooth, though.
@Mkat He is deeply, deeply flawed and definitely shouldn’t be looked up to as a person. However, he has a lot of surface level qualities that are easy to admire. He’s articulate and well-dressed; he’s way ahead of his time in his tolerance of race, sex, and sexuality; and he’s incredibly charismatic. Definitely a lot wrong on the inside, but it’s easy to admire the outside.
@@0_Katt_0they idolize Don Draper the idea. A handsome smooth talking ladies man they can talk any woman’s panties into a puddle with ease. But it’s all a front
@@michaelh9649 lots of people are flawed but don is still a man who is great at his job and is good with women to a certain degree
Very well done examination. It's all the more interesting because it tells you exactly why the show is popular. Some folks watch Mad Men and instantly pick up on the subtext, that Don's image of success and confidence is all smoke and mirrors. That's clear from episode 1, and it only deepens throughout the series. It's emphasized again and again as the entire statement of the show, on both a microcosmic and macrocosmic level.
But there's a huge audience out there that just wants the image. It's not that they don't know it's an image. But for many, many people, presenting an image of strength is the same as being strong, presenting an image of confidence and success IS confidence and success. The image is the substance. What's beneath doesn't matter. It's weakness. And the goal of life is to hide it, to bury it. So they see Don's story as the struggle to find the strength to maintain the image, to bury his weaknesses. Just as Don himself sees it. So when he puts Ginsberg in his place, to these viewers, it doesn't matter that Don is lying when. It only matters that the stone-cold line is the ultimate shut-down.
The true horror of humanity is that a huge portion of people aren't looking for truth, or self-acceptance, or healing. They're looking for strength, confidence, and success. And the parts of themselves that get in the way of that are to be repressed, or blamed on someone else. So when they watch Mad Men, or Breaking Bad for that matter, they see a very different show. And the thing is, we're all guilty of enjoying the power of Don Draper's image-making. The thrill of seeing Don prevail through self-delusion and seductive lies is undeniable. But when Don makes an ad that tells us that whatever we're doing is okay, we all know it'll end in cancer. But some of us just want to hear that we're okay, even though we're not.
Beautiful breakdown.
God thank you!! I have been so vexed by how people just don't understand this scene. People interpret it as some badass Mike drop moment but really it is one of Don's pathetic and petty moments!
I think most people who watch the entire show know it’s one of Don’s petty moments. Sure, it’s a great meme if you just take it at face value, but in the show you know Don is threatened by him.
There are some losers irl who idolize don. Which is funny to me, since Dons character just comes across as extremely insecure and miserable the entire show. Not “cool” or likable at all
They're not wrong. Draper showed that he doesn't respect Ginsburg and that point came across to Ginsburg. To Ginsburg's point, he should take this as a teaching moment and learn what he can about the environment he works in knowing that one day he'll surpass Draper.
The “I don’t think about you at all” is a reference to a conversation between the protagonist and antagonist of The Fountainhead. It’s a truly epic shutdown of a self described megalomaniac. Here it appears to be twisted around to a false bravado.
Thank you! I feel like hardly anyone makes this connection, despite all the Ayn Rand references in Mad Men.
Spot on! I just posted same notation.
It's still a great comeback lol
Haha I see I had the same thing to say.
I came here to say the exact same thing. It always made me think of Howard Roark's reply to Toohey.
Mad Men is a great show, but Don Draper is a character that left me feeling enormously sad almost every episode. He was such a flawed man. Yes, very "cool" and brilliant in many ways, but someone whose weaknesses and self-destructive tendencies took almost everything he loved away from him. Jon Hamm and of course the whole creative team behind the show did incredible work.
Reminds you a little bit of yourself?
Thats the point. Stories are based on conflict. External and internal ones. And if the character you created is perfect in every way - you only get to use external conflicts but also your protagonist will be stagnant and boring. You will have 7 seasons of shit happening to him but since he is already perfect - nothing of that have any affect on him. Both uninteresting and unrealistic.
Ginsberg is wonderful. His arc really made me feel sad.
I was so disappointed with how the show handled his character. There wasn't at arc at all. He abruptly goes all loopy and then just kind of vanishes from the show. wtf? I was hoping the show was going to further develop his rivalry with Don.
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 I read that the actor got a main role in another series and wanted to leave, so they had to take him out of the show
@@s.9899Superstore?
@@adamsteele6148 yes, I think so
Ginsberg is one of my favorite Mad Men characters. So much so that I wrote a short story about him. Тhis scene is pretty straightforward, I think the only people who misunderstand it are those who don't watch the series. Don Draper is a typical "literally me" character and you'd have to be pretty dim to miss all of his antagonistic traits.
There is this new childishness in movies and series that prevails in the last decade which is indulged by big studios out of unsurprising desire for profits, but one of the key ingredients to a great story still is a flawed protagonist. You can't have the story progress if the character is perfect, but especially on the internet and in the media we see a huge trend of viewers who seem to be missing this point. The thing is Mad Men is so well made and unlike movies with antagonistic leads has much more runtime to delve into the meat of the characters, you really have to be stupid to miss the context that makes this scene much more meaningful than a simple "sick burn" moment...
Especially the scene where he leaves Ginsberg's idea in the car is such a bad look for Draper and shows his true colors. The elevator scene just seals the deal as in "oh yeah, Draper is an absolute tosser". And it's not like there aren't beautiful scenes that really help you relate to the character either, he's just not two-dimensional and black-and-white, he is a complex character. All of the Mad Men characters are really... even the most charming ones have their 15 minutes of shame moments.
I love how they repeatedly cut to Peggy's face during the feedback meeting. She clearly thinks Don's idea is awful and is in shock that everyone is humoring him.
Peggy was more caught off guard because Don thought of an idea from scratch Instead of building on one of the copywriters ideas, like Creative Directors do.
Peggy for her faults is brutally honest and if she thought the idea stunk, she'd said so IMO. Especially considering the relationship Don and Peggy have, she is one who Don is most honest with in the whole show.
It's never been said on camera but IMO Don told her at some point about his false identity. This is laid out in the last episode when he calls her and says :I took another man's name and made nothing of it". And Peggy didn't bat an eye or take a gasp. She knew what he was talking about.
With that said, she like MGs idea better, but also thought Don's was good.
Then why did the account accept it?
@@pyropulseIXXI--Because it was pitched to adults BY an adult. Ginsburg’s idea was aimed at kids, even hitting a pig was funny. In a way it’s appealing to the adults that buy the product, kids might actually be frightened by that devil.
@@davidmascio1896 I don't think he would have told her, but I think she definitely knew there was something going on there. Can't remember specific examples but I think Pete or somebody might have given her some clues along the way
YES!!! Another mad men video, so excited you’re doing this.
Its funny how when I first watched the episode, I understood it. The show makes it quite clear that Don cares about this a lot, and that Ginsberg's words were true.
But when I watched the scene randomly on youtube, it felt totally different. It really seems like Don "owned him"
I always thought Don was speaking the truth in the way that he wasn't thinking about Ginsberg as a person, but more the work he's able to put in, like Don is thinking about his skill and talent, but not actually considering Ginsberg's feelings outside of that. Thanks for the video though, I appreciate the clarification!
Best analysis on the whole board .. correct answer
That's exactly how I viewed it as well. When he said, "I don't think about you at all", I took it as, "I don't [care] about you at all".. He meant it as an emotional jab, and it worked. He doesn't care about his feelings, but he does care about how Ginsburg is full of never-ending great ideas and how he is becoming stagnant and he feels threatened by that.
It was a true representation of poor leadership. A leader doesn’t have to have all the ideas, they have to know how to manage their teams and leverage their creativity and talents.
Don does the same thing in "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword" when a New York Times reporter quotes Ted Chaough, saying "Every time Don Draper looks in his rearview mirror, he sees me," and Don replies, "I’ve never heard of him,".
That was different because Ted spent the entire 4th season being a horse's ass, and he certainly didn't pose some kind of existential crisis to Don the way Ginsburg did (or was at least contributing to)
This show has a special place in my heart.
It's very similar to the case of Peggy and Don arguing of her idea that made him win an award, and she just wants from him to recognize her while Don was falling into a complete downard spiral. Taking out of context people assume Peggy is only a snowflake while Don "says facts" about she will have her moment and that's why she was paid for (while their whole relationship wasn't never impersonal). He tried so hard to convince her and himself that he still had control, and splits their relationship in half because she knows he is at the verge and only authority is what keeps him afloat and not his creativity prowess. This series is just brilliant.
I agree to the things said in the video.
But there is an additional layer after all that, where Don came out on top.
Layer 1. Where viewers only see the cool one liner.
Layer 2. That is explained in the video, where Don is actually taken back and Ginsberg really hot under his skin.
Level 3. ...is that Don - in the elevator - actually showed an example why he is the best of the two.
As someone that has worked against advertising agencies since the 90s, i can assure you that Ginsbefg would have been burned in less than a year no matter where he worked. Just coming up,with good ideas isn't enough. Even coming up with brilliant amazing ideas isn't enough if you cant work them.
And that goes for every creative craft - You can be the worlds most brilliant ad man, sculptor, painter, pastry chef... whatever - if you can't promote your idea, sell your idea, and bring your idea from start to finish... Then you haven't got all that it takes.
Ginsberg spits out ideas like a machine gun ("I've got a thousand of them!") . But he hasn't got the skill or the personality to land them.
Don does. He has the manners, and the rhetoric, the timing and the skill to know exactly where to strike home when he wants to make a point.
And in the same way, Ginsberg spits out half accusations and half insults at Don in a frantic rate in the elevator. But that doesn't give Ginsberg a win, because he isn't good at that. He isn't selling it...
Don is. Even if it is an act, he casualty delivers his "one liner" that crushes Ginsberg, and walks away a winner. At least in his opponents eye.
That is a needed skill in advertising. Call it Fake it till you make it, or whatever. But if you can't drive home your creations, you realy arent the entire package.
Don does all and more, and that's why he is sitting in the corner office.
Corrrect! Don wanted to only go in with one pitch, he thought he could pitch his idea better. It's that simple! Don showed no signs of being threatened by Ginsberg's talent!
I havent watched a single episode of mad men, i just watch the video to see your interpretation of any scene. There always something to reflectionate about
I thought the most quoted line was "Not great, Bob!"
Yep, it'a a savage line by Don, but I always thought him saying that was an L. Like you said, of course Don thinks about him. So it was just a deflection because what was said hurt him.
Also, I always felt the "one who knocks" scene was also clearly an indication of Walt's solidified villanism. I feel like people who think it was a "cool" or "savage" moment from Walt also can identify that it was not a good one too
Don clearly wanted to prove himself as still top dog after looking thru ginsberg's folder on a weekend before. He saw it and laughed, then instead of going home, he stayed and came up with the devil bit.
However, Don was still going back and forth in the cab. Looking at both and deciding even as they pulled up to the meeting.
So although it was clear Don wanted to use his idea, he was still thinking if MG's was the one to use.
Michael was one of my favorite characters. He was funny, interesting, and a great foil to both Don and Peggy. Was very sad they ended his story in the way they did.
Out of context, the line is a slam dunk comeback. Which is why people love it. But you're right, anyone who knows the show knows Don is lying in this moment.
Roger had a similar moment with Pete, only Roger seemingly did the opposite of what Don did by letting go. The scene with him giving Pete those skis demonstrated it all....
The real shame was that the two campaigns could've worked in sequence. Start with people being hit by snowballs from a mysterious thrower. Then, when the public has been hooked wondering who is throwing the snowballs, reveal that it's the Devil just having a little fun.
Never ask a woman her age
A man, his salary
Or *Jon Hamm why he transferred from the University of Texas to the University of Missouri*
Ok, you sold me on this pitch. Now tell me the rest of the story, please?
@@ingvarhallstrom2306 hospitalized a guy with frat hazing shenanigans to the genitals I believe
@@andrewdunn8778 in such a way he had to transfer? That's bad. But he seems like the kind of frat boy bully he looks. I really hope he had become a better human since, one can only hope....
MY COMMENTS WILL CONTAIN SPOILER FOR THE WHOLE SHOW
This is kinda off-topic, but I just wanted to say that Michael Ginsberg is one of my favorite characters on the show and I think that the reason for that is how neat his whole arc is. Almost every little piece of information that is presented during the show come full circle and leads to his tragic end.
For example, there is the whole awkward conversation that he had with Peggy about being adopted and being born on a concentration camp. Before he reveals that, he says that he is from Mars. While some people thought that was weird, when I first watched the episode, I thought that he was joking in his awkward way because he was uncomfortable talking about his family.
Anyway, what impacted me the most in the confrontation between Don and Ginsberg was his line about how he got a million of ideas. That is one of the reasons his ending is so tragic to me.
Oh, and I would like to thank you. It was your video about The Wheel episode that made me watch this show. I’m also watching Attack on Titan partially because of you, although the main reason is the controversial ending that made me curious.
I didn't Iike what they did to his character. Seemed like a stunt by the writers. I wanted him to end up with his blind date. She was a good actress and would have made a good addition to the show and to Ginsberg's life.
It's a great dramatic choice in movies or TV to say the opposite of what you're truly feeling inside. I actually use it in real life on occasion when somebody says something to me and I'm not quite sure what to make of it and so I go with the most dramatic opposite choice in knowing what somebody is truly feeling internally.
I was thinking the most quoted/known line was THAT’S WHAT THE MONEY IS FOR! Lol. There’s a yt video of Don just saying What too….after I saw that I couldn’t get out if my head how much he does say What? Great analysis!
I think people confuse the tone with Casablanca's ‘I suppose if I gave you any thought at all I wouldn’t like you'
Keep the Mad Men content coming!!!
Thanks for this video. That elevator line from Don was such a wonderful use of irony and why I loved that show so much. It was frustrating to see the meme of it saying the opposite.
The lone “I dont think of you at all” is from the book The Fountainhead.
Yeeeeees!!!!
Please, PLEASE do more prestige TV content, I've loved every one of these so far.
Glad you enjoyed, though this will be the last Mad Men one. There will be some more Breaking Bad though!
@@Aleczandxr :(
DD was bothered which is why it was such a great line. It was a brushback pitch and it was delivered perfectly. The point was to get in Ginsburg's head and to remind him who was in charge without losing his cool. That way he left Ginsburg with enough self respect for him to continue to work productively with DD.
Peggy told Don once when she was comparing him and Ted that basically Ted was interested in "the" idea but Don was only interested in "his" idea. I know most consider Don the protagonist of this show but honestly the only person on this show that I personally consider a protagonist is actually Ken Cosgrove. He seems to be the only one with a true moral compass of all the main characters. He never cheats on his wife. He is always honest. He always tries to do what is right and expects it of others. He never tries to prop himself up and even uses a "pen name" to write sci-fi stories that are actually quite good. Compare that to all the other characters and their infidelities and moral shadiness and he's about the only one that comes out at the end with his conscience still clean. I'm not meaning this to sound judgmental or anything of all the other characters. Just an observation. I love the show and honestly I don't even know if the writers themselves wanted us to think of the characters in terms of "good guys and bad guys". There is tons of ambiguity in the vast majority of the series.
Interesting how the devil in Don’s ad looks as if he’s riding in the back of car, just as Don was when he left Ginsberg’s idea behind…
“THis Could Change Everything.”
Indeed it did.
Draper was a ball of insecurity wrapped in a cloak of cool smugness (and some real ethical/values challenges as well ) it took the back of the fridge guy to help put things in perspective and balance him out.
I agree with you 100%, however in Don's favor one must say Ginsberg was clearly not the kind of person thinking for the group; he clearly was a menace to DOn because he wanted his job, he was just as selfish as Don was. So, basically my point, is that it was about a wolf biting the wolf that wants to get him out
Well of course, like I said Ginsberg was definitely being too much of an upstart.
Lmaooo wanted his job? No Ginsberg is just too honest and didn’t understand business. But there was no way he thought he would get his job i mean dons name is literally on the company. He just did something the corporate world hates. An underlying rightly calling out his boss
I’ve watched it 4 times too, and still find new things. Little thing, big things. It’s the perfect show
You could watch it purely for the visual pleasure.
One piece that aligns with what you're saying - Matt Weiner said that he always envisioned Don dead by the early '80s, a victim of hard living and stress.
All it took was a war in ukraine to get us a second mad men video.
Great stuff. I always thought the writers really screwed it up by deciding to just make Ginsberg have a psychotic break for no particular reason. If I was writing the show I would have had a longer arc where he gets fed up with the WASPs and advertising and takes a job working for the Eugene McCarthy campaign or starts doing art full time for the Moratorium to End the War in Vietnam or something like that.
At a creative agency the best ideas have to win. Don is insecure, and not caring about junior creative’s input is just bad management and bad business - people will leave if their ideas aren’t even given a chance.
I mean I have to watch it now, right? Great video AJ.
It's funny how the ads are framed in the meeting at SCDP. The one they vote for is bigger and Don's noticeably smaller.
Draper made the right decision.
Had he thought of Ginsberg’s feelings, they would not have gotten the account
The Lion in Winter (1968) - Geoffrey : You don't think of me much. Henry II : Much? I don't think of you at all.
I’m thoroughly convinced that this scene is inspired but The Fountainhead where Ellsworth Toowey asks Howard Roark to tell him what he thinks about him. To which Roark replies “but I don’t think of you”. There is one instance in the series where Ayn Rand, the author of The Fountainhead is referenced. Leading me to believe the writes where aware of this scene.
Pete while being a weasel was right about Don too.
This wasn't the clip I was looking for, but you got my view because the description cited 13 Sentinels tracks and I was curious how a Mad Men video would be using them.
Isn't it great that we have these fictions that generate thought and comment, opening doors to ideas that challenge . long live Art in all its forms.
I think you're missing another angle. Don may have chosen his for another reason- sellability. He understands and can articulate it better than Ginsberg's idea.
He didn’t choose it because of that, the show makes it clear that it was purely because of his pride and ego and to put Ginsberg in his place.
I think it stands out, with or without context, because the insult attacks that which his adversaries hold most dear; their ego. This isn’t the only time he chooses this line of attack either. I seem to recall him doing the same thing when a reporter asked him to comment on a rival. “On the record? Never heard of him.”
This context matters a lot, thanks
I loved the episodes where Don would journal his thoughts. really gave a good insight into his way of thinking more, which I think the whole show could benefitted from if it was tastefully added throughout the seasons
Nice analysis. Mad Men is a show deep enough so that it pays to revisit/analyse it. And this was thoughtful and made a clear point, well argued.
You've got a new subscriber.
As the saying goes “you don’t have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the person next to you” - Don is running faster but feeling slower.
If I were Ginsberg, I wouldn't let Draper get away with that. I would have worked up a rough sketch of my idea and I'd have taken it to the client and presented it to them in person. I've been in similar situations and I know that what I'm suggesting would be a risk but I'd have taken it.
And he would have been insta-fired and probably blackballed. This was not something anyone would do in the 1960s advertising industry, or the 1960s anything industry really.
@@untexan ..or today. It's a terrible idea and the client would almost certainly hate it
I mean whoever thought that Don was the “alpha” in that situation and that he was that confident and powerful man didn’t understand anything about Mad Men.
It really is the absolute best. I love me some Sopranos and The Wire and all that good stuff, but nothing comes close to Mad Men. It's like reading a huge novel.
that ginsberg was a creative guy and would have rose very high if his mental health didn't deteriorate but honestly don's idea on this account was so much better
I also like choice of words used in this scene used by each character. This may be nit-picky but notice how Ginsburg says "I FEEL bad for you" and Don immediately and defensively responds "I don"t THINK about you at all". Ginsburg had only mentioned that he had felt bad for him not mentioning at all whether he thinks about him or not.
That line was used in "The Fountainhead". Roark to the hack, Peter Keating when he asks "What do you think of me?"
Excellent analysis of an important scene from my second favorite show of all time, now taken over by Succession.
Loved every bit of the video. Especially the ending.
The scene from Breaking Bad where Walter White tells Skyler, "I am the one who knocks" to assert his dominance, the scene from The Sopranos where Tony Soprano confronts Perry, and the elevator with Ginsberg scene all explore the inner vulnerabilities of the main characters.
As someone who's been a copywriter in advertising, I've always been shocked by how the best idea doesn't always win. It's infuriating to have a creative director sabotage an idea before the client even has time to do it. We always went in with at least three campaigns. I know there's at least 100 different schools of thought on the idea of how many ideas to bring to the client. But to bring in just one idea is risky as hell. IMHO, Don leaving Ginsberg's ideas in the cab was one of the biggest betrayals in the whole series.
LETS FUCKING GO BEEN HOPING FOR ONE FOR LIKE A YEAR !! And thanks cus ur video made me watch mad men initially 👍👌👌🤩
Excellent analysis, and spot on. This happens in the corporate world all of the time. Once people get in a position of power they don't want to lose it.
Thanks!
I could relate to Ginsberg a lot in my last job. Had good ideas but they didn't reward me.
The first thing I noticed in the office at 2:30, is that the men are dressed in various colors, while Peggy's dress blends in completely with the sofa. Very subtle, but deliberate.
I had a similar thought for this and the "I am the one who knocks" scene. The context changes the read so completely.
Ginsberg totally needed to be put in his place. He was starting to walk around that place like he was their savior
Everyone walked around that office as if they were the saviors, that’s what Mad Men is all about. Maybe you have something personal against Ginsberg, but he’s just like anyone else: thirsty of recognition and power.
It’s funny exactly what you said we don’t understand is EXACTLY what we understand. It’s Bad Ass because it’s a zinger in the moment. Everyone in the type of situation is lying about not thinking of the threat, but if delivered right, the line gets thoroughly under the skin of the upstart.
Almost every scene in madmen is misunderstood by most people
@dellwright1407 except the dude bros who admire Don Draper and the the puritans who abhor him are equally objectively shallow. The complex traumas of almost all the characters on the show are too painful for most to willfully grasp.
The popularity of the show creates a reductive narrative for the casual viewer
Bravo !!! Good point I would love more Mad Men Analysis
Honestly that scene was good enough that you could come up with the context without having seen the show
I think the momentum of Ginsberg is being overplayed in the analysis - he wasn't anywhere near close to being a threat to Don. But in some ways, that SUPPORTS your argument about Don's pettiness. That even a guy as low in the totem pole as Ginsberg can make him feel insecure. Don never really achieves freedom until the Coca Cola commercial...
That Coca-Cola commercial was stolen from a real (black) “creative”. The perfect ending for the series.
This line, “I don’t think of you at all,” is directly lifted from Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead when Howard Roark tells Toohey, “But I don’t think of you.”
Although common issue and reflective in the real world (ie. ego, authoritarian, etc), Ginsberg had a great idea but executed poorly. He should blame himself for not committing all the way and see that his idea and service come to fruition. If he ever became a great salesman, the idea would be conceived and implanted into Don's mind...
Ok, so Don's insecurity comes shining through, in that scene. Thank you so much for the explanation!
Ginsburg eventually leveled out and became much happier and more well adjusted
Happier? Maybe... Well adjusted? 💀💀💀
Every boss, ever.
THE MOST BRILLIANT SHOW TO EVER EXIST! i MISS IT SOOOOOOO MUCH!
Ginsberg then goes a bit loopy and is taken away for treatment. He was no Don as the first few life hurdles caused him to crash to the ground in a heap and that was that. Assuming that if things went better he would not end up in a similar fashion is just totally incorrect as getting some setbacks at work is just Monday-Friday for most people. All roads lead to Rome sometimes.
In Don and the rest of creative defense…. Ginsberg was a prick the whole episode, you can see him mocking Don saying things like “wow that’s actually good” in a surprise way while presenting his idea to the group and you can see Peggy and Stan faces like they just had enough with Ginsberg attitude. I believe that Don was trying to teach him a lesson that he is not the only genius on the team, that is why he left his creative idea in the cab.
Ginsberg was tactless but correct. Don was washed up. And he was out of line in how he communicated it, this is true, but Don’s motive wasn’t “I need him to learn his lesson,” it was “I feel threatened”
@@Aleczandxr Could be both, I mean we know that Don always tries to shoot two birds with one bullet. Like he did when promoting Peggy to a Junior Copywriter.
I’m just not convinced that Don cared about anything that would help the firm at this point in the story, is all.
@@Aleczandxr That’s true, there are still some deep developments that come up, I’ve watched the whole series like 20+ times and still learning new meanings to several scenes.
La mejor serie de todos los tiempos, el personaje principal (Don Draper) es el mejor escrito, desarrollado y actuado que he visto en toda mi vida.
Regardless of Don’s true feelings, it’s a great comeback to “I feel sorry for you,” which is what Ginsburg says to him. And even more impressive given that it is the opposite of how Don feels.
Welcome to every ad agency I’ve ever worked at ever.
I always thought this as well. The moment he purposefully left the other idea in the cab it was obvious.
So why the later scene when Ginsburg has a bizarre psychotic break? It only makes Don look wise in keeping Ginsburg at arm’s length.
It doesn’t make Don look wise at all if you consider the reason he did what he did. He had no clue, really.
Very good point, though I would add that Don isn't completely lying here. Although Don clearly thought about this specific case a lot, it does seem like it impacted his career and general state a lot less than it impacted Ginsberg, but he wanted to keep his cool and say it didn't matter at all. I would also add that Don seems to be mostly thinking about 'work' instead of thinking of Ginsberg personally, hence that statement.