I think that it's just amazing that a guy like me in the south of Sweden can just by clicking on my computer be part of so many great teachers and spiritually awakened people all over the world. I'm really blessed to be born at this time in history. And for you to do this on your spare time Rick. Both you and your wife. I encourage all of you who read this to donate a sum to keep this going. I'm not a wealthy person but I've donated what I can afford. I believe that shows like these really helps to develop the human species. And again. For people like me, all over the world, to be able to absorb all these experiences. Just fantastic. Thanks a lot and namaste!
Thanks David. I'm moving in the direction of being able to do it full time, based on voluntary donations. From the outset, I've wanted to make it free for all, and grow it to the point where donations would enable me to devote my full time to it. I enjoy helping in my small way to usher in a more enlightened society.
Dear Stephan, I returned from India in 2010 to begin teaching Vipassana here in the West following some profound experiences in a year-long meditation study. I started 'Vipassana New World', sharing meditation with a western perspective (not knowing that Spirit Rock and all these other groups existed). While at first I had some bitterness in ways it was being taught and not taught around the world, I've come to embrace this tool in me heart, knowing what you so clearly share, "It's a wonderful tool; just don't get stuck there." These days I meditate considerably less, and achieve considerably more. I utilize meditation as my Spirit calls for it, practicing more how to listen and follow in each moment rather than teach and tell. It's working. I haven't known what the evolution for VNW has been or where it's going, but watching you video adds one more level of 'ok-ness' for me that where it's going "is as old as the hills" as Gandhi would say. Thank you for sharing your path, your beauty, and your inspiration for us all to Awaken. It doesn't take the amount of time that we are taught in Vipassana circles. Cleansing the Mind and/ or cleansing the Emotional Body is a very long path. Spirit Body is Fast. Awakening is Now; it's happening to us now, and it's been through the Heart of Great Spirit. She gives us life and she also takes it. Giving reverence to Her in each moment... Love Heals, and relationships heal and prosperity heals so quickly. Thank you for your interview. I will now finish listening :) with love, Jan {another ex-monk who has freed himself from old forms of conditioned training}
"you can find stillness in an active mind"... what a koan. there are a lot of gems in this video. hope everyone watches the whole interview when they are in the spiritual mood.
An excellent interview, thank you Rick. I love that Stephan didn't dwell on his personal history, which some interviewees seem to get very involved in recounting. I very much appreciate his direct teachings and wisdom
hi rich, thanks for everything you do! enlighted. this word fascinates me since many many years. I don't know why but while listening to this interview I had a kind of flash or intuition. here it is: we always think about light as something "external" like the light of the sun, or the light of a candle ect. What if enlightment is the path in which we realize that light doesn't only come "from outside" but also comes from within. So there is a light out there that makes for us to actually and simply see or perceive matter and there is a light emanating from our own being that encounters more and more the "wordly" light in all its forms. So the path of enlightment would be light connecting more and more with light through our human experience. And the more light meet light, the more it recognize itself (isn't that a love process?) and that's is how I feel enlightment now.. i don't know if you'll ever read this words I just know I had to write them down here. Riccardo
This interview started very well. Rick's initial questioning and inquiry was excellent. After about first 50-55 minutes, I felt the conversation fell into typical Rick's speak: 1. I, Rick am right. 2. If Adyashanti agrees with what I think, I am doubly absolutely right. 3. Adyashanti is the absolute, ultimate judge of everything (because he is popular, respected, influential and humble?). 4. If you aren't (yet) famous, if you aren't a "spiritual teacher" by professional, if you don't have many "disciples" or "followers" you are obviously quite wrong... just as people on the spiritual chat groups, spiritual message boards are. ( Fame = accuracy? Popularity = accuracy? Christianity = the most popular = the most accurate? Islam = the second most popular = the second most accurate? Islam = fastest growing = most modern = best suited for the modern world? ) 5. Those who think there are no "real" person(s) are wrong. 6. Those who think there are no "real" levels are wrong. 7. Awakening is a continuous journey, there are levels, grades, continuous refinement and continuous progression. (This statement is absolutely correct because Mahesh Yogi said it and Adyashanti agreed?). Those who don't agree are wrong. 8. People who chat on the spiritual chat groups and message boards are especially clueless, ignorant and stupid. They absolutely need to be ridiculed, made fun of and looked down upon in almost each and every interview. That is a great act of kindness, compassion, spiritual maturity, enlightenment, understanding and spiritual evolution. It shows how much I have really progressed. I, the twenty years TM practitioner am so much better than these stupid, ignorant, clueless nondual speak people on the chat group and I know how much better and how much better informed I am. Gosh, even Adyashanti agrees with my views. What more "proof" you can possibly ask for? 9. These "not famous" spiritual people talking nonduality on the chat group are one of the greatest threat facing the spirituality and even the humanity right now and that's why I have made it my "very conscious", "very spiritual", "fully examined", "well understood" mission to criticize and attack them and to make fun of them in almost each and every interview. 10. As for as my own views on Devas, Celestial Beings, Angeal, Celestial Realms, Soul, Reincarnation, Avatara... ...too bad if you don't agree with it. I, the twenty years TM practitioner, I, the one who really knows don't even want to talk to... ignorant, stupid folks like you. I hope and pray that one day you realize that those are absolutely real. Even my friend, Harry "sees"... ...these celestial being and it can't possibly be his "illusion" or "hallucination"... ...how dare you even suggest that?
TOA, something you said recently sparked me, 'the only sin'. Why is it that when I look out the window this moment I see a bird and tree that feel like a blessing? I see a mountain in the distance, it's majesty and beauty? I see a homeless person walk by in one of the most beautiful and affluential communities in the world and a tear comes to eye and an overwhelming desire to help, which I act on everyday? I look into my sweet lovers face and my heart swells with love? I hear the hub and scuffle of the city waking up around me and it sounds like music? I look in the mirror and somehow hold myself to some higher level of discrimination and truth than anything else? Maybe the only sins are shame and pride?
Kwistenbiebel200 Thanks! Rick is free to have his opinion and to express it. You are free to have your opinion and to express it. I shared the opinion that appeared to me at that time. I am aware of the harsh tone in my comments. I do find it puzzling that Rick's brings this issue "people on the chat groups talking Nonduality". I think I object to his tone of voice and his "smirk" more than what he says in that regard. It seems to me that he really looks down upon then. You can check that at 1:24:00 in this interview. It became quite irritating because he seems to talk about this in almost every interview. I don't know which chat group, which people and which comments he is talking about. I am not sure if most people have any idea about it. It is one thing to disagree about something or disagree with someone and it is another to make fun of them. From his tone of his voice and his "smirk" he seems to be making fun of them. It is an irony that he doesn't see how his own beliefs in celestial beings, devas and such can seem quite silly to many others. I thought it was good to point that out. I think Rick is smart, intelligent, mature and experienced person, who believes in continuous improvement. I think he can learn and improve if he notices an error in his own way or blind spots in his own thinking. Does that make sense to you?
I maybe lost but I like it here and everyone else and know it is by no mistake. I have few concerns this morning, how can I help and be a blessing? how can I bring something new of beauty today? where is The Beloved this moment? Delusion and duality is not all misery. Who would worship who? I'm maybe too simple minded. And I do feel drunk without drink. Life is smiling and dancing without my help, yet I help. I'm confused ;-) And often on my knees.
His disenchantment with Zen and subsequent encounter with Jean Klein parallels Ed Muzika's own disenchantment with Zen and later discovery of Robert Adams. With these latter discoveries there was the realization in the value of Self Inquiry.
I did leave a comment before but it seems to have been removed. Stephan makes some good points and for someone who has been meditating for a long time without Enlightenment,I found them helpful. For example,years of meditation requires discipline and spiritual effort and with it is usually a growth in spiritual ego.And then we wonder why we are not Enlightened.We are our own worst enemies. But eventually we may get tired of this and not worry about meditating so much,but become more mindful all the time... become open to what is rest in what is there is only what is you are that
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Yes,I found it helpful,but only up to a point.They help(''spiritual'' exercises like meditation) buttress the mind but they also inflate the ego.There comes a point when they are actually a barrier.They cloud that which is spiritual stopping us from seeing that everything is spiritual.For me the word spiritual has become a dirty word for the ego inveigles itself into the spiritual practice and soon the latter is just another vehicle for our ongoing ego trip. I prefer the word Reality.We seek reality,we are reality and the raft of spirituality has to be abandoned because it makes us feel so special,and with this specialness,separate.
glenemma1 I am not sure if I and you mean same thing by the word meditation, ego, true reality, all that is, spirituality and Awakened State. Is it OK if we begin by defining them? I am going to write my current definition of these terms. It would be interesting to know your definition of them: Mediation = Abiding as my True Reality right now. knowing who I really am... ...right now... underneath the thoughts, feelings, emotions, sensations occurring on the surface. Abiding as that underlying reality... ...right now. Ego = belief that I exist separately and independently from all that is. True Reality = that which exists independently, unconditionally, eternally. All that Is = True Reality + Current manifestations + Illusions + current thoughts, ideas, beliefs, understanding and feelings about the reality, manifestations and illusions Spirituality = Inquiry into who I really am Awakened State = the condition in which Abiding as the True Reality is the default, natural, automatic, effortless state that occurs on its own. IOW... ...Awakened State = natural, effortless, automatic, spontaneous ongoing meditation.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) I agree with your definitions.I certainly cannot improve on them. As I said before,Spirituality has become a bit of a dirty word for me.Some of the most egotistical people I have ever met have been''spiritual''.There is a lot of one- upmanship in this spiritual game,long time meditators who can't hide their smug feeling of superiority.As if meditating is any more spiritual than walking through the park eating an apple or playing a sport on the weekend. Most people on this ''spiritual'' journey'' had to drop a religion they may have been imbued with when young in order to be true to their search for truth.In the same way,I increasingly think that we reach a point when we might have drop the ''spiritual'' journey itself in order to be true to our original purpose.
glenemma1 I can see your point. Is your annoyance more with the "spiritual people" and "meditators" or is it more with the "spirituality" and "meditation"? You might have read the quote attributed to Albert Einstein: “I love Humanity but I hate humans” ~ Albert Einstein
I recognize to make oneself open to what is, the sky like nature of mind, Dzogchen, was a phase I went through for many years and still have great respect for those representing it like Surya Das and Sogyal Rinpoche. Then I realized its limitation at some point and was at the point of even quitting it as a formal practice but somehow got "resurrected" through Self Inquiry. I would have to credit Stephen Wolinsky and Ed Muzika for having "awakened" me to the underlying non dual Awareness. Yes, it was of course there at all times, yet I still had some issues in the Relative state that were as yet unresolved and which Self Inquiry has best addressed.
For the "divine" plan to unfold... ...the illusion of the "self will", "free will", "choice" is greatly helpful as it keeps the participants motivated and interested... ...even when things don't go... ..."according to their plan". However, if the participants really had real free will and self-determination and if they can truly decide independently... ...it can easily undermine the "divine" plan.
I know you're booked for years Rick, but if you get in touch with Jan Rigsby or anyone from The Pathwork, there is something profound there. Very interesting stuff.
Not one of the Bat Gap interviewees could touch her, in any area. Let's face it, what she was saying is true.....we settle for swill and think we are kings....Her pearls were not wasted on me....
Most people find it very difficult to ground themselves in the present moment and experience their true nature ~ The reason is there are to many distractions going on around them ~ Not to mention all of the mental objects being churned up in their mind as they meditate ~ If you want to abide in the present moment for long periods of time ~ Then you need to be mindful of and systematically remove all of those things that distract and disturb your mind ~ Once you remove these hindrances your mind will settle down and you will be able to experience your true nature ~
Maybe I'm being too harsh....but her basic point was that america's current non-dual craze is a watered down kool aid of ancient spiritual wisdom and that spiritual wisdom without the solid guidance of a real teacher......and solid, grounded daily practice....is a joke. And she made us look like fools. While I agree with her, at the same time I know that sometimes it is necessary to retrace our steps and look in the mirror with the kind of humor and affection, warmth and wisdom that she showed us. She is an amazing person and we were indeed blessed to have her here for a few weeks. I miss her already......Biggest hugs and blessings to all of us on our journey 'from here to here'.
The meditation rug :- I think a lot of "spirituality" has been about pushing the "rational" fears under the meditation rug and then pretending that they don't "really" exist because I can't see them anymore.
It's amazing and troubling that we go on as if we are too busy to really let life in. Something profound happened here. Do we keep playing with our phones and our hair? Is she an average Italian or European? I don't know. Are we Americans really as superficial as we seem? I'm not sure. There was more substance to her posts than most of the books on my bookshelf, probably yours too. She really let us into her world, she took each one of our posts as if there was actually a real person on the other end of the Internet somewhere. She showed us REAL concern, something I would challenge most of the 'teachers' here to do. She tried to gently lead us deeper into our own lives, with humor and kindness and concern and sometimes biting, cutting words. What really just happened here? Please don't miss this opportunity. Please don't let the mirror she held up to us just slip by like another Internet vid, and your heart along with it. I do not have the brains and wit to unpack what she was saying to us but I do have the heart to recognize that someone very, very alive just passed by, someone wickedly intelligent and funny and insightful and probably more profound than any of our cherished bat gap teachers. If there has been a wake up call among the bat gap vids, it was A.S. Or, maybe I should just mind my own business, shrug my shoulders and and let life slip by like another day at the office, American style.
I would like to see the interview technique rely more on what the " interview-ie" has to say rather than having, in this case Mr. Bodian, confirm or align his words to Mr. Archer's already held concepts. I've only watched a few of these so maybe it's not an overall trend but I will be pay attention to it. Also, if these interviews are going to be listener supported then maybe listeners familiar with a guest could submit questions in advance for consideration? However I do appreciate the material as it stands.ty.
51:06 I think he misunderstood the Dogen quote : Zazen is dancing on the heads of devils My interpretation is that in Zazen which is to rest in the ground of being without effort, then the devils of confusing thoughts, emotions and sensations are not blocked but when left as they are are seen to be inseparable from the ground of being and so are already liberated as they arise. Hence the use of the joyful word dancing. Dogen isn't giving an instruction on how to do Zazen, rather he is evoking a powerful image that illustrates the freedom that is found amidst all the stuff we usually want to somehow deal with and get rid of. Any other way of dealing with them, including psychotherapy, is the attempt to get rid of them or to neutralise them without recognising that they are the shine of life itself. When there is no preference for or against them and they are neither ignored or acknowledged (which would require a separation into the acknowledger)) then they are nothing other than freedom.
I think I am beginning to see why it might actually be good that gurus, especially "non-doer" gurus charge top dollars for the Satsang and retreats. I think such things might be only suitable for the people who can easily afford that time and money because of being fairly well-off. I think people who can't easily afford that money and time might benefit more by spending time and energy elsewhere, on the stuff that might really ail them - such as lack of money. As for "serving people" or "serving society" or "serving God", I think anyone can do that irrespective of his/her economic conditions. Some things in life like - best seats for the Super Bowl, tickets to the Oscar Night, tickets to the Grammy Night, Hermes, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Rolex, Ritz Carlton are meant for the rich only. It might be unwise and irresponsible for others to spend money on them. It might be irresponsible for others to even complain about their prices because one is not forced to buy them and these are not basic necessities. I am beginning to see that "non-doer" workshops and retreats too belong to the ultra-high-end-luxury category only and aren't really suitable for the middle class or poor. Just as millions watch the Super Bowl on TV and not in the Stadium with $10K ticket, not-rich people are better off reading $10 books and watching free RUclips videos. I think it is irresponsible and unwise for the middle class to spend money on these retreats.
It is the rich who (only) have "real" spiritual or psychological problems, middle-class and poor have many other "real" problems that are often more troubling, urgent, critical and "real".
How will you ever be a "perfect" person? Isn't "perfection" in the eyes of the beholder? Is Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi a "perfect" person in the eyes of a devout Christian? Is Sri Gautama Buddha a "perfect" person in the eyes of a devout Muslim? In whose "eyes" or "view" you are trying to be perfect? In your own? Isn't "being perfect in your own eyes"... ... simply... a matter of "full unconditional self acceptance"... ...right here... right now...?
A *1.5 on the new -3 to +3 scale. Disclaimers at the end of the comment.* Nice guy, nice interview. But would have liked to hear more about his realization and how he experienced his awakening. Why was there no discussion about that ? BTW, and for something completely different, I just commented on an interview way back, one of my favorites, *Paul Hedderman, here: **ruclips.net/video/stW9Qso-vZk/видео.html** Highly recommended !* _About the rating: anything below and including 0 means by and large a waste of time, and anything below 0 is not only worthless but damaging to the world. For comparison, on that scale, Francis Bennett would be a +2 or more and Harri Aalto would be roughly a tentative + 2 - 2.5. Not coming up with original, independent cosmological insights bans any interviewee from > 2.0 ratings as a matter of principle._ *General Disclaimer:* the rating _pertains to an interview, not to the interviewee_. If the rating is high it means merely and exclusively that I consider the interview to be of high value relative to the stated purpose of the channel, and that it is therefore no waste of time to listen to the interview. It would _not_ imply that whatever the interviewee speaks is the truth (as if I was the arbiter over that) or that you should follow him/her or accept whatever that person offers. _That is particularly in need of emphasis if that would be an expensive enterprise_ !
Thank God someone saved the Bat Joke, everything else she said is gone!! Please copy and save the Bat Joke, it's a work of art. A clear and surprising look in the mirror at a period of Americas current spiritual crisis and lack of substance. A brief window has closed....she will be missed.....a voice from nowhere....;-);-);-);-);-). ;-(;-(;-(;-(;-(;-(
This discussion mis-portrays mindfulness - setting up a straw man only to tear it down. for example at a certain point you talk about using mindfulness to avoid difficult emotions. Nonsense! The whole point of mindfulness is to be aware of and allow anything present, including difficult emotions. Suppressing difficult emotions is the opposite of mindfulness.
Could someone please 'splain this term 'spiritual bypassing' to me? Let me see if I've got this right. If I have 'issues', (who doesn't?) and I happen to meditate, then I am 'spiritual bypassing'? That is what everyone I've heard use this term is saying. But really they are being sneaky and manipulative. Why don't they just come out and say what they mean? You do not have to be spiritual to have issues....and if you have issues and pretend that you don't, that is lying or denial, whether you are 'spiritual' or not. (As far as I can tell, everyone and everything is spiritual whether they know it or care or not). So indulge me here for a moment, while I prove I'm a fool. (I'm not the only one ;-) Lets say I like to read, especially when I'm pissed off, does that mean I'm doing a literary bypass? Maybe I smoke a little to help with my frustration, is that an herbal bypass? Maybe I like to go for a drive to clear my mind and think, especially when I've got a problem to solve, is that an automotive bypass? Let's say I'm on a diet because I'm overweight, been medicating my feelings with food. But instead of eating, I look at magazines with big, beautiful pictures of food. Then, according to the geniuses logic who came up with this arrogant term, I would be doing a culinary periodical bypass. Does anyone out there still believe this shit? Let's keep going with their "logic'. (You know that people pay 'teachers' to insult them with this kinda shit, dontcha?) Maybe I like extreme sports. Instead of meditating, I've turned to skydiving and other stupid stuff to feel more alive. Let's see, what kind of bypass would that be? How's about an aviatory, athletical, chance at getting killed bypass? They must think I'm an idiot!! ;-) I don't need an overpaid 'teacher' to figure this one out. Now, if my 'teacher' still has issues (ha fucking ha, find me one who doesn't), what, is she doing? A spiritually educatory bypass? Yesterday I wanted to clear my mind, so I went for a run with an iPod on, but I don't like to run in the rain so I wore a poncho, and to keep from gritting my teeth with anger I chewed some gum, right after I took a bong hit of some medically prescribed marijuana, and just before using an enema because I'm constipated because I'm so uptight....go figure this one out, what kind of multiple bypass am I doing now? I swear, the only kind of bypass I'm seeing is people bypassing their God given smarts to fall for some of the lamest shit that passes for teaching. Face it, the term spiritual bypassing is used by arrogant a-holes who want to lord their spiritually superior state over some poor slob who cannot figure out that they are being bamboozled. Anyone who uses this term should be quickly bypassed and stayed away from. Permanently. Have a nice day....
BTW, I don't believe any of that crap. I am just following in the footsteps of my new favorite teacher, who is conspicuously and sadly absent from this forum, and George Carlin whose main message was 'don't take yourself so seriously'. I am like one of those particles of spit that flies from the mouth of God as he sneezes. Getsundheit. And to quote another favorite teacher, my spouse, 'Ain't life grand ;-)'
brazfan There is a book named "Spiritual Bypassing". I guess that book coined the term and made it popular. I haven't read it and don't what it means by that term. That said, I will give my take on the false escape. I think it is very simple. The False Escape ============= Say, a middle-class man has less than $5K in his bank account and he is worried and stressed about it. It causes him mental discomfort. To forget this mental discomfort, he buys and drinks ten dollars liquor and once drunk, he forgets his worries and thus, feels OK. That is very likely a false escape because once the effect of alcohol is over, his worries, stress and the resultant, mental discomfort are likely to return, because the root problem (lack of sustainable money) is still there. Replace alcohol with spiritual Satsang and you get the picture. Lack of money is only one such issue. There could be other issues too such as lack of partner, poor health, lack of love.
I just posted and it disappeared. Anyway, I have heard this term used as a club by teachers or others to keep the upper hand. One upsmanship and spiritual competition. I actually am not interested in whether anyone thinks I am bypassing or anything else as long as there is the slightest hint of self interest in their opinion. Any hint of wanting to be right or financial gain and their opinion is highly suspect. Of course any and all opinions, positions, perspectives, judgment, it is all questioned, especially my own. What others think of me is none of my business unless I want it to be. I address my issues on my schedule, not someone else's. And if I don't, life will eventually back me into a corner and force change and growth. I like exchange of ideas, in a spirit of goodwill and humor, something I was playfully doing with that post. Humor doesn't always translate well, my fun was probably stupid to someone else. I was having fun with an easy target. And TOA, your point about satsang being used as an escape is well taken. I have trouble with someone telling me that I'm the limitless space of awareness on one hand and then taking it away with the other when it suits them. And charging money for it too. I have a lot of thoughts about this stuff but I'm tired and spacey right now. I wish I could see your posts as I write but my screen is too small, it would make it easier to respond directly to your points, instead of just trying to remember what stood out to me.
I like the Sufi approach to this, and everything for that matter. How can we let life in as an invitation, rather than an assignment or challenge. THE GUEST HOUSE This being human is a guest house. Every morning a new arrival. A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all! Even if they are a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still, treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the malice. meet them at the door laughing and invite them in. Be grateful for whatever comes. because each has been sent as a guide from beyond. -- Jelaluddin Rumi, translation by Coleman Barks
Authentic, simple and genuine. Thank you Stephan ;-)
A delightful interview - much wisdom and reliable advice. Thanks guys.
I think that it's just amazing that a guy like me in the south of Sweden can just by clicking on my computer be part of so many great teachers and spiritually awakened people all over the world. I'm really blessed to be born at this time in history. And for you to do this on your spare time Rick. Both you and your wife. I encourage all of you who read this to donate a sum to keep this going. I'm not a wealthy person but I've donated what I can afford. I believe that shows like these really helps to develop the human species. And again. For people like me, all over the world, to be able to absorb all these experiences. Just fantastic. Thanks a lot and namaste!
Thanks David. I'm moving in the direction of being able to do it full time, based on voluntary donations. From the outset, I've wanted to make it free for all, and grow it to the point where donations would enable me to devote my full time to it. I enjoy helping in my small way to usher in a more enlightened society.
Great interview. Thanks!
Dear Stephan,
I returned from India in 2010 to begin teaching Vipassana here in the West following some profound experiences in a year-long meditation study. I started 'Vipassana New World', sharing meditation with a western perspective (not knowing that Spirit Rock and all these other groups existed). While at first I had some bitterness in ways it was being taught and not taught around the world, I've come to embrace this tool in me heart, knowing what you so clearly share, "It's a wonderful tool; just don't get stuck there."
These days I meditate considerably less, and achieve considerably more. I utilize meditation as my Spirit calls for it, practicing more how to listen and follow in each moment rather than teach and tell.
It's working.
I haven't known what the evolution for VNW has been or where it's going, but watching you video adds one more level of 'ok-ness' for me that where it's going "is as old as the hills" as Gandhi would say.
Thank you for sharing your path, your beauty, and your inspiration for us all to Awaken.
It doesn't take the amount of time that we are taught in Vipassana circles. Cleansing the Mind and/ or cleansing the Emotional Body is a very long path. Spirit Body is Fast.
Awakening is Now; it's happening to us now, and it's been through the Heart of Great Spirit. She gives us life and she also takes it. Giving reverence to Her in each moment... Love Heals, and relationships heal and prosperity heals so quickly.
Thank you for your interview. I will now finish listening :)
with love,
Jan
{another ex-monk who has freed himself from old forms of conditioned training}
"you can find stillness in an active mind"... what a koan. there are a lot of gems in this video. hope everyone watches the whole interview when they are in the spiritual mood.
An excellent interview, thank you Rick. I love that Stephan didn't dwell on his personal history, which some interviewees seem to get very involved in recounting. I very much appreciate his direct teachings and wisdom
I have watched 15 min so far and it is making a lot of sense.
hi rich,
thanks for everything you do!
enlighted. this word fascinates me since many many years. I don't know why but while listening to this interview I had a kind of flash or intuition. here it is:
we always think about light as something "external" like the light of the sun, or the light of a candle ect.
What if enlightment is the path in which we realize that light doesn't only come "from outside" but also comes from within. So there is a light out there that makes for us to actually and simply see or perceive matter and there is a light emanating from our own being that encounters more and more the "wordly" light in all its forms.
So the path of enlightment would be light connecting more and more with light through our human experience. And the more light meet light, the more it recognize itself (isn't that a love process?)
and that's is how I feel enlightment now..
i don't know if you'll ever read this words I just know I had to write them down here.
Riccardo
the conversation about witnessing is extremely important....
This interview started very well. Rick's initial questioning and inquiry was excellent. After about first 50-55 minutes, I felt the conversation fell into typical Rick's speak:
1. I, Rick am right.
2. If Adyashanti agrees with what I think, I am doubly absolutely right.
3. Adyashanti is the absolute, ultimate judge of everything (because he is popular, respected, influential and humble?).
4. If you aren't (yet) famous, if you aren't a "spiritual teacher" by professional, if you don't have many "disciples" or "followers" you are obviously quite wrong... just as people on the spiritual chat groups, spiritual message boards are.
(
Fame = accuracy?
Popularity = accuracy?
Christianity = the most popular = the most accurate?
Islam = the second most popular = the second most accurate?
Islam = fastest growing = most modern = best suited for the modern world?
)
5. Those who think there are no "real" person(s) are wrong.
6. Those who think there are no "real" levels are wrong.
7. Awakening is a continuous journey, there are levels, grades, continuous refinement and continuous progression.
(This statement is absolutely correct because Mahesh Yogi said it and Adyashanti agreed?).
Those who don't agree are wrong.
8. People who chat on the spiritual chat groups and message boards are especially clueless, ignorant and stupid. They absolutely need to be ridiculed, made fun of and looked down upon in almost each and every interview. That is a great act of kindness, compassion, spiritual maturity, enlightenment, understanding and spiritual evolution. It shows how much I have really progressed.
I, the twenty years TM practitioner am so much better than these stupid, ignorant, clueless nondual speak people on the chat group and I know how much better and how much better informed I am. Gosh, even Adyashanti agrees with my views. What more "proof" you can possibly ask for?
9. These "not famous" spiritual people talking nonduality on the chat group are one of the greatest threat facing the spirituality and even the humanity right now and that's why I have made it my "very conscious", "very spiritual", "fully examined", "well understood" mission to criticize and attack them and to make fun of them in almost each and every interview.
10. As for as my own views on Devas, Celestial Beings, Angeal, Celestial Realms, Soul, Reincarnation, Avatara... ...too bad if you don't agree with it.
I, the twenty years TM practitioner, I, the one who really knows don't even want to talk to... ignorant, stupid folks like you. I hope and pray that one day you realize that those are absolutely real.
Even my friend, Harry "sees"... ...these celestial being and it can't possibly be his "illusion" or "hallucination"... ...how dare you even suggest that?
TOA, something you said recently sparked me, 'the only sin'. Why is it that when I look out the window this moment I see a bird and tree that feel like a blessing? I see a mountain in the distance, it's majesty and beauty? I see a homeless person walk by in one of the most beautiful and affluential communities in the world and a tear comes to eye and an overwhelming desire to help, which I act on everyday? I look into my sweet lovers face and my heart swells with love? I hear the hub and scuffle of the city waking up around me and it sounds like music? I look in the mirror and somehow hold myself to some higher level of discrimination and truth than anything else? Maybe the only sins are shame and pride?
brazfan
In my view, shame and pride are the 'symptoms' and not the root cause. The root cause is the belief in the separate, independent existence.
Kwistenbiebel200
Thanks! Rick is free to have his opinion and to express it.
You are free to have your opinion and to express it.
I shared the opinion that appeared to me at that time. I am aware of the harsh tone in my comments.
I do find it puzzling that Rick's brings this issue "people on the chat groups talking Nonduality". I think I object to his tone of voice and his "smirk" more than what he says in that regard. It seems to me that he really looks down upon then. You can check that at 1:24:00 in this interview.
It became quite irritating because he seems to talk about this in almost every interview.
I don't know which chat group, which people and which comments he is talking about. I am not sure if most people have any idea about it.
It is one thing to disagree about something or disagree with someone and it is another to make fun of them. From his tone of his voice and his "smirk" he seems to be making fun of them. It is an irony that he doesn't see how his own beliefs in celestial beings, devas and such can seem quite silly to many others.
I thought it was good to point that out.
I think Rick is smart, intelligent, mature and experienced person, who believes in continuous improvement. I think he can learn and improve if he notices an error in his own way or blind spots in his own thinking.
Does that make sense to you?
I maybe lost but I like it here and everyone else and know it is by no mistake. I have few concerns this morning, how can I help and be a blessing? how can I bring something new of beauty today? where is The Beloved this moment? Delusion and duality is not all misery. Who would worship who? I'm maybe too simple minded. And I do feel drunk without drink. Life is smiling and dancing without my help, yet I help. I'm confused ;-) And often on my knees.
brazfan
Is there a question? :-) Or, are you just describing how happy you are right now :-)?
His disenchantment with Zen and subsequent encounter with Jean Klein parallels Ed Muzika's own disenchantment with Zen and later discovery of Robert Adams. With these latter discoveries there was the realization in the value of Self Inquiry.
I did leave a comment before but it seems to have been removed.
Stephan makes some good points and for someone who has been meditating for a long time without Enlightenment,I found them helpful.
For example,years of meditation requires discipline and spiritual effort and with it is usually a growth in spiritual ego.And then we wonder why we are not Enlightened.We are our own worst enemies.
But eventually we may get tired of this and not worry about meditating so much,but become more mindful all the time...
become open to what is
rest in what is
there is only what is
you are that
I see meditation as something else - it is like doing physical exercise to build muscles :-)
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Yes,I found it helpful,but only up to a point.They help(''spiritual'' exercises like meditation) buttress the mind but they also inflate the ego.There comes a point when they are actually a barrier.They cloud that which is spiritual stopping us from seeing that everything is spiritual.For me the word spiritual has become a dirty word for the ego inveigles itself into the spiritual practice and soon the latter is just another vehicle for our ongoing ego trip.
I prefer the word Reality.We seek reality,we are reality and the raft of spirituality has to be abandoned because it makes us feel so special,and with this specialness,separate.
glenemma1
I am not sure if I and you mean same thing by the word meditation, ego, true reality, all that is, spirituality and Awakened State. Is it OK if we begin by defining them? I am going to write my current definition of these terms. It would be interesting to know your definition of them:
Mediation = Abiding as my True Reality right now.
knowing who I really am... ...right now... underneath the thoughts, feelings, emotions, sensations occurring on the surface. Abiding as that underlying reality... ...right now.
Ego = belief that I exist separately and independently from all that is.
True Reality = that which exists independently, unconditionally, eternally.
All that Is = True Reality + Current manifestations + Illusions + current thoughts, ideas, beliefs, understanding and feelings about the reality, manifestations and illusions
Spirituality = Inquiry into who I really am
Awakened State = the condition in which Abiding as the True Reality is the default, natural, automatic, effortless state that occurs on its own. IOW... ...Awakened State = natural, effortless, automatic, spontaneous ongoing meditation.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) I agree with your definitions.I certainly cannot improve on them.
As I said before,Spirituality has become a bit of a dirty word for me.Some of the most egotistical people I have ever met have been''spiritual''.There is a lot of one- upmanship in this spiritual game,long time meditators who can't hide their smug feeling of superiority.As if meditating is any more spiritual than walking through the park eating an apple or playing a sport on the weekend.
Most people on this ''spiritual'' journey'' had to drop a religion they may have been imbued with when young in order to be true to their search for truth.In the same way,I increasingly think that we reach a point when we might have drop the ''spiritual'' journey itself in order to be true to our original purpose.
glenemma1
I can see your point.
Is your annoyance more with the "spiritual people" and "meditators" or is it more with the "spirituality" and "meditation"?
You might have read the quote attributed to Albert Einstein:
“I love Humanity but I hate humans”
~ Albert Einstein
I recognize to make oneself open to what is, the sky like nature of mind, Dzogchen, was a phase I went through for many years and still have great respect for those representing it like Surya Das and Sogyal Rinpoche. Then I realized its limitation at some point and was at the point of even quitting it as a formal practice but somehow got "resurrected" through Self Inquiry. I would have to credit Stephen Wolinsky and Ed Muzika for having "awakened" me to the underlying non dual Awareness. Yes, it was of course there at all times, yet I still had some issues in the Relative state that were as yet unresolved and which Self Inquiry has best addressed.
13:50. Don't "add another head on top of your own". That's great!
For the "divine" plan to unfold... ...the illusion of the "self will", "free will", "choice" is greatly helpful as it keeps the participants motivated and interested... ...even when things don't go... ..."according to their plan". However, if the participants really had real free will and self-determination and if they can truly decide independently... ...it can easily undermine the "divine" plan.
I know you're booked for years Rick, but if you get in touch with Jan Rigsby or anyone from The Pathwork, there is something profound there. Very interesting stuff.
Not one of the Bat Gap interviewees could touch her, in any area. Let's face it, what she was saying is true.....we settle for swill and think we are kings....Her pearls were not wasted on me....
Most people find it very difficult to ground themselves in the present moment and experience their true nature ~ The reason is there are to many distractions going on around them ~ Not to mention all of the mental objects being churned up in their mind as they meditate ~ If you want to abide in the present moment for long periods of time ~ Then you need to be mindful of and systematically remove all of those things that distract and disturb your mind ~ Once you remove these hindrances your mind will settle down and you will be able to experience your true nature ~
Maybe I'm being too harsh....but her basic point was that america's current non-dual craze is a watered down kool aid of ancient spiritual wisdom and that spiritual wisdom without the solid guidance of a real teacher......and solid, grounded daily practice....is a joke. And she made us look like fools. While I agree with her, at the same time I know that sometimes it is necessary to retrace our steps and look in the mirror with the kind of humor and affection, warmth and wisdom that she showed us. She is an amazing person and we were indeed blessed to have her here for a few weeks. I miss her already......Biggest hugs and blessings to all of us on our journey 'from here to here'.
The meditation rug :- I think a lot of "spirituality" has been about pushing the "rational" fears under the meditation rug and then pretending that they don't "really" exist because I can't see them anymore.
It's amazing and troubling that we go on as if we are too busy to really let life in. Something profound happened here. Do we keep playing with our phones and our hair? Is she an average Italian or European? I don't know. Are we Americans really as superficial as we seem? I'm not sure. There was more substance to her posts than most of the books on my bookshelf, probably yours too. She really let us into her world, she took each one of our posts as if there was actually a real person on the other end of the Internet somewhere. She showed us REAL concern, something I would challenge most of the 'teachers' here to do. She tried to gently lead us deeper into our own lives, with humor and kindness and concern and sometimes biting, cutting words. What really just happened here? Please don't miss this opportunity. Please don't let the mirror she held up to us just slip by like another Internet vid, and your heart along with it. I do not have the brains and wit to unpack what she was saying to us but I do have the heart to recognize that someone very, very alive just passed by, someone wickedly intelligent and funny and insightful and probably more profound than any of our cherished bat gap teachers. If there has been a wake up call among the bat gap vids, it was A.S. Or, maybe I should just mind my own business, shrug my shoulders and and let life slip by like another day at the office, American style.
Now, can you see and read me ???
Yes I can. Partially. I have to reread and ponder your remaining words here. It may take me awhile....;-)
brazfan
See you next interview and next week !
Big kiss of the phoenix girl (:-*
I would like to see the interview technique rely more on what the " interview-ie" has to say rather than having, in this case Mr. Bodian, confirm or align his words to Mr. Archer's already held concepts. I've only watched a few of these so maybe it's not an overall trend but I will be pay attention to it. Also, if these interviews are going to be listener supported then maybe listeners familiar with a guest could submit questions in advance for consideration? However I do appreciate the material as it stands.ty.
HI Michael Maitri,
RE: systematically remove all of those things that distract and disturb your mind
Do you have the tools to do it?
51:06 I think he misunderstood the Dogen quote : Zazen is dancing on the heads of devils
My interpretation is that in Zazen which is to rest in the ground of being without effort, then the devils of confusing thoughts, emotions and sensations are not blocked but when left as they are are seen to be inseparable from the ground of being and so are already liberated as they arise. Hence the use of the joyful word dancing.
Dogen isn't giving an instruction on how to do Zazen, rather he is evoking a powerful image that illustrates the freedom that is found amidst all the stuff we usually want to somehow deal with and get rid of.
Any other way of dealing with them, including psychotherapy, is the attempt to get rid of them or to neutralise them without recognising that they are the shine of life itself. When there is no preference for or against them and they are neither ignored or acknowledged (which would require a separation into the acknowledger)) then they are nothing other than freedom.
I think I am beginning to see why it might actually be good that gurus, especially "non-doer" gurus charge top dollars for the Satsang and retreats. I think such things might be only suitable for the people who can easily afford that time and money because of being fairly well-off. I think people who can't easily afford that money and time might benefit more by spending time and energy elsewhere, on the stuff that might really ail them - such as lack of money.
As for "serving people" or "serving society" or "serving God", I think anyone can do that irrespective of his/her economic conditions.
Some things in life like - best seats for the Super Bowl, tickets to the Oscar Night, tickets to the Grammy Night, Hermes, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Rolex, Ritz Carlton are meant for the rich only. It might be unwise and irresponsible for others to spend money on them. It might be irresponsible for others to even complain about their prices because one is not forced to buy them and these are not basic necessities.
I am beginning to see that "non-doer" workshops and retreats too belong to the ultra-high-end-luxury category only and aren't really suitable for the middle class or poor. Just as millions watch the Super Bowl on TV and not in the Stadium with $10K ticket, not-rich people are better off reading $10 books and watching free RUclips videos. I think it is irresponsible and unwise for the middle class to spend money on these retreats.
It is the rich who (only) have "real" spiritual or psychological problems, middle-class and poor have many other "real" problems that are often more troubling, urgent, critical and "real".
How will you ever be a "perfect" person? Isn't "perfection" in the eyes of the beholder?
Is Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi a "perfect" person in the eyes of a devout Christian?
Is Sri Gautama Buddha a "perfect" person in the eyes of a devout Muslim?
In whose "eyes" or "view" you are trying to be perfect? In your own? Isn't "being perfect in your own eyes"... ... simply... a matter of "full unconditional self acceptance"... ...right here... right now...?
A *1.5 on the new -3 to +3 scale. Disclaimers at the end of the comment.*
Nice guy, nice interview. But would have liked to hear more about his realization and how he experienced his awakening. Why was there no discussion about that ?
BTW, and for something completely different, I just commented on an interview way back, one of my favorites, *Paul Hedderman, here: **ruclips.net/video/stW9Qso-vZk/видео.html** Highly recommended !*
_About the rating: anything below and including 0 means by and large a waste of time, and anything below 0 is not only worthless but damaging to the world. For comparison, on that scale, Francis Bennett would be a +2 or more and Harri Aalto would be roughly a tentative + 2 - 2.5. Not coming up with original, independent cosmological insights bans any interviewee from > 2.0 ratings as a matter of principle._
*General Disclaimer:* the rating _pertains to an interview, not to the interviewee_. If the rating is high it means merely and exclusively that I consider the interview to be of high value relative to the stated purpose of the channel, and that it is therefore no waste of time to listen to the interview. It would _not_ imply that whatever the interviewee speaks is the truth (as if I was the arbiter over that) or that you should follow him/her or accept whatever that person offers. _That is particularly in need of emphasis if that would be an expensive enterprise_ !
I think Robert Augustus Masters could be a great guest.
robertmasters.com/
Thank God someone saved the Bat Joke, everything else she said is gone!! Please copy and save the Bat Joke, it's a work of art. A clear and surprising look in the mirror at a period of Americas current spiritual crisis and lack of substance. A brief window has closed....she will be missed.....a voice from nowhere....;-);-);-);-);-). ;-(;-(;-(;-(;-(;-(
*****
Where is that "reminder"?
This discussion mis-portrays mindfulness - setting up a straw man only to tear it down. for example at a certain point you talk about using mindfulness to avoid difficult emotions. Nonsense! The whole point of mindfulness is to be aware of and allow anything present, including difficult emotions. Suppressing difficult emotions is the opposite of mindfulness.
Could someone please 'splain this term 'spiritual bypassing' to me? Let me see if I've got this right. If I have 'issues', (who doesn't?) and I happen to meditate, then I am 'spiritual bypassing'? That is what everyone I've heard use this term is saying. But really they are being sneaky and manipulative. Why don't they just come out and say what they mean? You do not have to be spiritual to have issues....and if you have issues and pretend that you don't, that is lying or denial, whether you are 'spiritual' or not. (As far as I can tell, everyone and everything is spiritual whether they know it or care or not). So indulge me here for a moment, while I prove I'm a fool. (I'm not the only one ;-) Lets say I like to read, especially when I'm pissed off, does that mean I'm doing a literary bypass? Maybe I smoke a little to help with my frustration, is that an herbal bypass? Maybe I like to go for a drive to clear my mind and think, especially when I've got a problem to solve, is that an automotive bypass? Let's say I'm on a diet because I'm overweight, been medicating my feelings with food. But instead of eating, I look at magazines with big, beautiful pictures of food. Then, according to the geniuses logic who came up with this arrogant term, I would be doing a culinary periodical bypass. Does anyone out there still believe this shit? Let's keep going with their "logic'. (You know that people pay 'teachers' to insult them with this kinda shit, dontcha?) Maybe I like extreme sports. Instead of meditating, I've turned to skydiving and other stupid stuff to feel more alive. Let's see, what kind of bypass would that be? How's about an aviatory, athletical, chance at getting killed bypass? They must think I'm an idiot!! ;-) I don't need an overpaid 'teacher' to figure this one out. Now, if my 'teacher' still has issues (ha fucking ha, find me one who doesn't), what, is she doing? A spiritually educatory bypass? Yesterday I wanted to clear my mind, so I went for a run with an iPod on, but I don't like to run in the rain so I wore a poncho, and to keep from gritting my teeth with anger I chewed some gum, right after I took a bong hit of some medically prescribed marijuana, and just before using an enema because I'm constipated because I'm so uptight....go figure this one out, what kind of multiple bypass am I doing now? I swear, the only kind of bypass I'm seeing is people bypassing their God given smarts to fall for some of the lamest shit that passes for teaching. Face it, the term spiritual bypassing is used by arrogant a-holes who want to lord their spiritually superior state over some poor slob who cannot figure out that they are being bamboozled. Anyone who uses this term should be quickly bypassed and stayed away from. Permanently. Have a nice day....
BTW, I don't believe any of that crap. I am just following in the footsteps of my new favorite teacher, who is conspicuously and sadly absent from this forum, and George Carlin whose main message was 'don't take yourself so seriously'. I am like one of those particles of spit that flies from the mouth of God as he sneezes. Getsundheit. And to quote another favorite teacher, my spouse, 'Ain't life grand ;-)'
brazfan
There is a book named "Spiritual Bypassing". I guess that book coined the term and made it popular. I haven't read it and don't what it means by that term. That said, I will give my take on the false escape. I think it is very simple.
The False Escape
=============
Say, a middle-class man has less than $5K in his bank account and he is worried and stressed about it. It causes him mental discomfort. To forget this mental discomfort, he buys and drinks ten dollars liquor and once drunk, he forgets his worries and thus, feels OK. That is very likely a false escape because once the effect of alcohol is over, his worries, stress and the resultant, mental discomfort are likely to return, because the root problem (lack of sustainable money) is still there.
Replace alcohol with spiritual Satsang and you get the picture. Lack of money is only one such issue. There could be other issues too such as lack of partner, poor health, lack of love.
I just posted and it disappeared. Anyway, I have heard this term used as a club by teachers or others to keep the upper hand. One upsmanship and spiritual competition. I actually am not interested in whether anyone thinks I am bypassing or anything else as long as there is the slightest hint of self interest in their opinion. Any hint of wanting to be right or financial gain and their opinion is highly suspect. Of course any and all opinions, positions, perspectives, judgment, it is all questioned, especially my own. What others think of me is none of my business unless I want it to be. I address my issues on my schedule, not someone else's. And if I don't, life will eventually back me into a corner and force change and growth.
I like exchange of ideas, in a spirit of goodwill and humor, something I was playfully doing with that post. Humor doesn't always translate well, my fun was probably stupid to someone else. I was having fun with an easy target. And TOA, your point about satsang being used as an escape is well taken. I have trouble with someone telling me that I'm the limitless space of awareness on one hand and then taking it away with the other when it suits them. And charging money for it too. I have a lot of thoughts about this stuff but I'm tired and spacey right now. I wish I could see your posts as I write but my screen is too small, it would make it easier to respond directly to your points, instead of just trying to remember what stood out to me.
I like the Sufi approach to this, and everything for that matter. How can we let life in as an invitation, rather than an assignment or challenge. THE GUEST HOUSE
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
-- Jelaluddin Rumi,
translation by Coleman Barks
brazfan
Sounds like a fine approach :-)