It will go to any height, it's because there's a maximum flow rate for waterfalls, so more water flowing in than the number of waterfalls means the water goes up.
@@TheClearwall There is. Although he could have dug out the map to get the full height potention. You start at 0 but you could also start at -16 or whatever the real value is.
It actually is, there is nothing rendered out of map bounds. The same for the sides. That's why if you put dam or floodgate right on the edge - you won't see any water, though it is flowing. Earlier there was a bug, that if you put them on the edge - they will not stop the flow at any level, but even now I'm not building them on the edge, because it is easier to tell what's going on when you can see if water flows through them.
@@zamboughnuts I'm also pretty sure that the surge probably doesn't happen in the map editor, only the normal game (and it happens _before_ the badtide).
With the dying on commute thing, I'd bet it works like: dying is a task that needs to be put in the queue like any other task, so, if a beaver is on a really long task such as walking across the entire map, dying sits in the queue until that other task is done.
@@BreCheese000 ah, so infinite water pump! simply get a bever inn there and start working then block off the door, now hes stuck at work.. working forever! he cannot die as he cant leave work
For the infinite power myth, it's nothing to do with friction. When you don't have pumps, there's nothing stopping the water level from reaching equilibrium where it stops flowing. The pumps lower the water at the end and raise it at the start, keeping the water level at a gradient and making it flow to try to even out.
Yup, the sluice is unidirectional, but that doesn't mean it's going to flow from a lower pressure to a higher one, it just won't flow from the higher one to the lower of the sluice gate is round the right way.
@@bewe3mc I did some work with sluices when they became available in experimental, so it may or may not still work like this, but from what I found sluices are very weird and not really like floodgates. For instance sluices can actually drain a reservoir faster than a floodgate. I assume this is because floodgates open and close a waterfall while a sluice acts more like a water teleporter. There was also strange behavior when I made a megadam with sluices at the bottom and top. When trying to set automatic opening and closing for the different water levels, the top sluices gained the ability to drain water when open as long as the bottom sluices were submerged, even when the bottom sluices were supposed to be closed. Note that I have not checked to see if this still works in the actual release.
I have now gone back to my save to test the sluices again. It looks line the devs probably fixed the bug of sluices in the same column influencing each other when they shouldn't, but sluices still seem to drain extremely fast. Opening one sluice at the base of my reservoir fed by four water sources caused turbulence and the water level began going down
The geyser has nothing to do with water pressure, but with the limitation in water flow over a single edge, which is 2.2 cms. On your first pyramid, the top was 4x4 blocks, meaning 16 edges that the water can flow off, so a total of 35.2 cms. If the source block output more than that, the water will have no where else to go but up. This also explains why making the hole smaller had no effect, you still had a 4x4 top, with 16 small waterfalls.
Agreed on the abbreviation, but I learned to characterize such a measurement as "volumetric flowrate" rather than throughput (which to me sounds like factory production, e.g. widgets per week or whatever). Are there regions where volume per unit of time measures are commonly called throughput?
The youtuber Pravus did a look-see into the new features with dev commands, and make a city ON a giant bridge. You need to give it a bridge review. Or at the very least, make living on a giant bridge the megaproject for your next timberborn series.
it's amazing that the silly little beaver early access game not only became a amazing city builder, but just casually added the best water simulation in a game ever.
Well waterworks is kind of the main point of the game, beavers build dams, and literally the only threats in the game are the water drying up/going bad.
The thing is you can use even less materials by using the 3x1 overhangs (covered with impermeable floors of course) in the bad water trough facing backwards towards the bad water source and have the trough capped with levees. Rather instead of the layout shown in the video.
Regarding the "covered water will evaporate" thing, I suspect that the "evaporation" mechanic is also used to cover water seeping into the ground, which is why covered water seems to evaporate. After all, you see water seeping into the ground all the time as it greens up the map (or spreads contamination for badwater), but mechanically it's just easier to have that be the same mechanic as evaporation (i.e. less work for the devs).
the shallow water evaporating faster is slightly misleading, as each tile evaporates at an equal rate regardless of the amount in it, but when you are 2 tiles deep only the top tile is evaporating. So if you had a 2x1 compared to a 2x2, instead of 2x1 vs 1x2, you would see them evaporate at the same rate.
Except the water level in the deep pool actually dropped faster. When the shallow pool had some left, the water level in the deep pool was significantly below the levie, which probably means that water drains into the soil aswell. Interesting that nobody seemed to notice
Some notes/questions: Reservoirs at the ends of pipes myth: You talked about how it didn't used to equalize above the height of the pipe, and then apparently tested with water levels that didn't end up above the height of the pipe. Covered water: Do impermeable floors make any difference in this, rather than covering with levees? 100 myths: What base is that in?
Regarding that base of 100 in "100 myths" : just count the total number of myths busted, take the square root, and if that is a positive integer then that's the base, if it isn't then the claim "100 myths busted" was a lie.
While that test was crap, it was actually already confirmed in the Creedy Cup one, there we already saw that waterlevels are the same for reservoirs that are connected below surface level.
A full hour of Timberborn testing the new water simulation physics and busting myths? And on a Thirsty Thursday, no less? My hydrologic simulator soul is deeply pleased The geyser demonstration alone has already convinced me that I need to spin up a new colony and see if I can build an aesthetically pleasing geyser-- I can see what they've done to feign the water pressure release, and I need to test whether it's source-dependant only or surface-area (as in flat surface atop geyser spout) dependant as well. Now Devs, HEAR MY PLEA: A specifically hydrophilic beaver clan with water-dependent breeding mechanics and unique underwater/water-adjacent tech. I'd happily buy a DLC clan of water-logged (get it?) beavers.
Anyone else think its weird that the industry-focused IronTeeth only get the Badwater Discharge, but the FolkTails get that AND the Badwater Rig? Also, the geyser height is limited by the builf height, Matt.
Folktails don't get a discharge, they get a dome which can only shut off the badwater completely. The iron teeth's discharge can keep badwater flowing during a drought, while the FT's rig can give very large amounts of badwater-per-beaver at the cost of not being able to get any power at all from the badwater source anymore. Basically folktails are setup to want to seal badwater off, while iron teeth are setup to want to keep it running at all times.
I’m still surprised the industry focused iron teeth don’t have a power plant that runs on Badwater. Although I guess that’s what water wheels in the perpetually open badwater is.
water evaporation works based off the surface area, how deep or shallow it is does not matter one bit. So the reason your shallow water evaporated 2x faster is because it had 2x the surface area...
Basically a 1x1 hole 1 deep and 1x1 hole 2 deep will have the top 1x1 water evaporated at the same time. It's not that the 1 deep hole will be empty while the 2 deep hole has more than half left. Which would indeed bust the myth and your explanation is why that is (and why it, like with Matt's setup seems it would be confirmed).
The devs also tweaked evaporation to reduce it based on number of tiles on the sides that is also water. ( so 9 isolated 1x1 tiles evaporate much faster than one 3x3 pond ). The 3x3 pond also irrigates a vastly larger area than a 1x1 tile ( new mechanic in 0.5 O think ).
The siphon didn’t have water ALL the way full, which means it wouldn’t work anyway. Unfortuantely I’m not sure if it’s possible to have full block of water with a drain under it, but more (or stronger) water sources might do it
I only used that once and that was because I had to irrigate an aquatic farm from a river with a higher water level and prevent it from overflowing, but at the same time I needed to water from the river to continuously supply the farm during a drought so I used the pipes from the old water mod to regulate water in and output and regularly checked if the water level in the farm was rising or falling. But now that we can put levies on top of platforms and pressure doesn't seem to be a thing (siphon doesn't work), it should be possible to limit the water level using a drop pipe
The unlimited power is awesome, anyone who does it just need to have some way of refilling the water lost to evaporation, otherwise it would run dry eventually. sluices would help keep the "start" of the channel at a set level always, if there was a basin behind it to refill with. quick tip :)
9:00 the reducing of the hole of the geyser from 4 to 1 with the same output, proved that the game is capping the max amount of pressure. So there is a chance that the geyser will still work with less water sources and a smaller pyramid, but still the same output!
25:00 as you saw earlier, waterwheels only check the water in the center. To properly test this, you wo need overhangs pouring water directly on the center of the wheel.
57:40 but you can put a whole layer of windmills and gravity batteries high up and have all the space below to play... and you can now just have vertical shafts drop power to any space on the map.
Regarding that beaver that died after the commute, you said maybe they can't die on paths that seems like an interesting test. Build walls to stop them from going off paths and then don't feed them.
8:15 getting serious creeper world vibes here. Maybe you could make those pyramids with bad water sources to simulate emitters, and then use water pumps like anti-creep dispensers. The beavers could then act as the energy with paths as power lines.
I think the first myth is related to fresh water and badwater flowing from normal sources. At one point (and I think it's still the case, but not sure) water flow increased during badtides, resulting in increased power.
31:36 That's interesting, the evaporation happens per surface area, but if you look closely, they didn't actually evaporate at the same rate. The water level in the deep pool actually fell faster, you can see that in reference to the horizontal lines. Now you have to test if Water on soil "evaporates" faster than on levies, or rather, if soil drains additional water, because I think that is the case here
The water pumps and wheels reminds me of a hydro project here in California that makes unlimited power. Water from courtright dam is used to make power in day time, then at night water from wishon is pumped back up to courtright to be used in the day.
57:35 Btw. Wind like Sunlight at the time are not impacted by any buildings, so you can make underground powerplants. I do however feel like we probably gonna see that get implemented at some point, hopefully with farm lamps, that let us still grow stuff underground at the cost of resources and energy (I mean we do already have the algae and fungi growing buildings).
on the unlimited power - yes, but you have to take evaporation into account. excellent video, saved me figuring a load of this out so thankyou very much indeed
Shallow water doesn't evaporate faster per-say, water with more surface area exposed to the air will evaporate faster, which is actually acurate to real life. It just so happens that an effect of this in game is that; Water that is deeper, as well as the same physical volume, will last longer against evaporation due to the diminished surface area exposed to the air. For example: If you had a 2x2x2 vs a 1x1x1, the 2x2x2 water would of lost 4 cubic tiles of water in the same time the 1x1 lost 1 cubic tile, even though the 2x2x2 is deeper. It's all about surface area, and not depth. It just looks like depth is effecting it because of how it works out when you have the same physical amount of water with different amounts of surface area interfacing with the air, like in your 1x1x2 in two different orentations example. However it's really just the 1x1x2 layed flat has twice the surface area exposed to air, so it evaporates twice as fast. ;)
Was going to make the same point. A fairer test to see if depth actually affected it would be to have holes of same surface area but different depth and see how long each takes to evaporate one "layers" worth of water.
Your comment is true, but I think the game is coded differently. If you follow SkyeStrome he explains it in his recent Timberborn season because he had a lot of problems with evaporation. Water tile evaporation is measured by the surrounding tiles. A 1x1 water tile surrounded by normal tiles, like the deep one in the video, has a 100% evaporation rate. From there, each water tile surrounding that water tile subtracts from that 100%, I don't know how much though. But that is the main reason why the 1x1 tile evaporates faster in the video than the 2x2. Skye had to really think of a solution and experimented a lot. That experiment should be done again with the same-sized holes. I think shallow water evaporates at the same rate as deep ones, except when it's really low levels.
@@kilianatra9772This effect did show up in this video, when the shallow water pool dried out, the deep water one had evaporated more than 1 tile, so the evaporate rate is smaller for bigger surface area, but the total water evaporated become more as well
@@kilianatra9772 Interesting. My comment was more to say thst there was an error is his testing methodology, rather than to difinitively say whether or nor the myth is actually true. I'd deffo be interested in seing rce do some more indepth testing, this time with sound methodology.
46:13 the reason it doesn’t work with the sluice, is simply because it at max will equalize the water, where the pumps will raise the water level on the other side. Creating a water level difference -> Flow
RCE I totally saw what you saw when you said "That can't just be me". I 100% saw an equal sign. So funny LOL. It totally was an equal sign. Or did you see something else? Maybe something you are completely obsessed with. Something you want desperately in your life? Seems like you really like a certain object more than most. Maybe you should come out and just be yourself because clearly you really enjoy this particular object very much. Don't worry we will all still watch you and support you no matter who you love.
I think the evaporation myth is based on surface to air more than depth. So each cube evaporates in the same time, like you showed, watter gets to one level down at the same time. More interesting would be if you have a tank with only one hole to the surface, does it evaporate just as fast as a completely open one without a roof.
Skye Storme has a great large scale demonstration of the perpetual motion energy machine in his last series on the Mountain Range map. I would highly recommend any Timberborn player check out the videos where he builds it. It might be overkill, but it sure is a fail-safe power solution.
56:14 They use "Direct Pathfinding" meaning they'll use the shortest route possible, directly to their target. Building targeta require a pathway which they'll follow the shortest one possible to the target using the pathway which is why they don't use shortcuts to get to work, eat, drink, rest etc.
Evapourtion: Is by surface area - i.e. the same area evaporates at the same time, if you double the surface area but keep the same volume, then it'll evaporate faster.
44:48 You could make something like that in real life, although it wouldn't be perpetual motion as you would need to put more energy into the pumps than you would get out.
The looping power arrays generate a ton of power when built right as they can take a constant source like capped badwater and blow them out to much higher flow using pumps. Hundreds of thousands of horsepower is possible :D
My thoughts: 8:34 That isn't an equilibrium, that is as high as the world goes. But I think it is a bug/engine limit that it stops spreading further. 30:40 It is neither faster nor slower. Water evaporates based on surface area. 44:55 It works because the Wheels produce more power than the pumps consume. They aren't using the same water flow/power conversion. 46:17 Water just flows from higher to lower elevation. No elevation difference, no flow. 56:00 Their pathfinding score is A Star!
Just started playing Timberbrone and i cant play it without hearing Matt's voice narrating the Beavers in my head. Oi what are you doing, you just sat on your arse
To ensure that the beavers don’t drown, you would need to: Block the map edges: Make sure there are barriers at the map edges to prevent water from flowing out, which would simulate water containment. Monitor water height: Track the water level to ensure it's not too high for the beavers. You could set a maximum height that they can safely swim in before drowning occurs. By controlling these two factors, you'd have a more accurate environment for observing whether beavers could drown based on water levels in that specific situation.
To test shallow vs. deep water evaporation, I would use something that has the same surface area, but one is deeper than the other. So a 2x1 1 deep vs a 2x1 2 deep. Probably will still get the same results with evaporation being per exposed tile, but....
8:53 A a tile can allow a max flow of 2.2 over the edge downwards per edge A 2x2 levee square (8 edges) with water dropped on top would allow 8.8 flow without accumulation At the top there’s 16 edge tiles allowing 35.2 flow The 8x8 source tiles generate more than 35.2 resulting in the same geyser regardless of the hole size at the top Ps.theres no max flow rate on a tile edge going upwards only downwards is restricted
hey RCE, I'm actually streaming Timberborn right now on my other channel. I appreciate you doing this. It'll give me a few fun things to try tonight. :)
I love infinite power. I have created a power station with every build since I discovered it. You just need to make sure it auto fills to combat evaporation. takes a bit of room though. you could do this ever since pumps were introduced.
There's a mod called Dam Extensions that has 3x1 levees. An interesting thing about them is that the build point is on one side rather than in the center, so you can use those to cover up a badwater source in the same way. In fact, if you have a line of water sources, you can put sluices on both sides, set one to open for clean water and the other to open for badwater, then cover up the water sources with the 3x1 levees, you can make it fill up higher than the water source, allowing you to make big ol' reservoirs that are completely badwater free.
I do hope they find a way to combat cheaper blockages of bad water sources. Maybe by not allowing building on top of it, until you block it with the respective buildings from both factions or something?
Suggested Myth: Can you increase the contamination or decrease the contamination of a pool of water? So you have two identical pools of water each at exactly 50% contamination. If you have have regular pumps on one and bad water pumps on the other will that increase or decrease the contamination respectively.
So, the infinite power is doable. it works best with a badwater source. make a snaking path of water wheels leading to lower resevoirs being pumped back to the upper resevoir, and you can calculate how much power it will generare in equilibrium with evaporation.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
matt creating his own world and we're just living in it 🌍
5 likes in 8 hours, what?
Second Reply?
As long as I’m not Labradog I’ll have a chance.
This is like the Boss appreciating the works of their colleague!
Shut the hell up, youtube. You're hosting and PAYING people who make bomb threats to children's hospitals. You should be ashamed of yourself.
The geysers hit the height limit, and go off the map. That's why they cut off at the top.
It will go to any height, it's because there's a maximum flow rate for waterfalls, so more water flowing in than the number of waterfalls means the water goes up.
@@LunaliBrighteyes Currently in this case, it's simply hitting the top of the map and stops rendering.
Now I wonder what would happen if you put a pipe at the top of the geyser
That's what I was thinking too. There must be an upper limit.
@@TheClearwall There is. Although he could have dug out the map to get the full height potention. You start at 0 but you could also start at -16 or whatever the real value is.
09:15 there is a huge chance that, that height is the maximum that anything can go in the game
It actually is, there is nothing rendered out of map bounds. The same for the sides. That's why if you put dam or floodgate right on the edge - you won't see any water, though it is flowing.
Earlier there was a bug, that if you put them on the edge - they will not stop the flow at any level, but even now I'm not building them on the edge, because it is easier to tell what's going on when you can see if water flows through them.
There's not a "huge chance" as that is exactly what is happening. Anyone who's used the map editor would know.
Creeper World made their fluid levels logarithmic. It allowed them to display huge quantities while compressing the upper layers.
Also the limit to falling water off edges is why it goes up with the pressure and also why it keeps the shape as with the single hole
Myth, Matt refuses to learn of the Stream Gauge despite many times doing experiments regarding flow or depth.
Confirmed 😂
17:20 was huge for this.
My engineer heart cries when I see him not using gauges. I think he may be an architect.
@@zamboughnuts I'm also pretty sure that the surge probably doesn't happen in the map editor, only the normal game (and it happens _before_ the badtide).
Thank you, I was coming here to point out how you can precisely measure flow on game!
With the dying on commute thing, I'd bet it works like: dying is a task that needs to be put in the queue like any other task, so, if a beaver is on a really long task such as walking across the entire map, dying sits in the queue until that other task is done.
You are probably right, but he should also test the myth that beavers will not die if they are working
@@BreCheese000 They probably can't die while working but they will stop working if they have urgent needs so how do you keep them working?
@@BreCheese000 ah, so infinite water pump! simply get a bever inn there and start working then block off the door, now hes stuck at work.. working forever! he cannot die as he cant leave work
@@g00gleminus Please keep your zombie workforce in your paradox games, this game is supposed to be cozy.
lol now I’m picturing a Beaver checking it’s schedule and being like “OK I’ve finished carrying wood what’s next? Oh time to die 💀.”
For the infinite power myth, it's nothing to do with friction. When you don't have pumps, there's nothing stopping the water level from reaching equilibrium where it stops flowing. The pumps lower the water at the end and raise it at the start, keeping the water level at a gradient and making it flow to try to even out.
Yup, the sluice is unidirectional, but that doesn't mean it's going to flow from a lower pressure to a higher one, it just won't flow from the higher one to the lower of the sluice gate is round the right way.
The sluice also isn't unidirectional, it's just an automated floodgate, so the water equalizes itself there
@BryanWeltonIII it's description literally starts: "a UNIDIRECTIONAL, automated water discharge..."
It has an arrow when placing it for a reason too
@@bewe3mc I did some work with sluices when they became available in experimental, so it may or may not still work like this, but from what I found sluices are very weird and not really like floodgates. For instance sluices can actually drain a reservoir faster than a floodgate. I assume this is because floodgates open and close a waterfall while a sluice acts more like a water teleporter. There was also strange behavior when I made a megadam with sluices at the bottom and top. When trying to set automatic opening and closing for the different water levels, the top sluices gained the ability to drain water when open as long as the bottom sluices were submerged, even when the bottom sluices were supposed to be closed. Note that I have not checked to see if this still works in the actual release.
I have now gone back to my save to test the sluices again. It looks line the devs probably fixed the bug of sluices in the same column influencing each other when they shouldn't, but sluices still seem to drain extremely fast. Opening one sluice at the base of my reservoir fed by four water sources caused turbulence and the water level began going down
The geyser has nothing to do with water pressure, but with the limitation in water flow over a single edge, which is 2.2 cms. On your first pyramid, the top was 4x4 blocks, meaning 16 edges that the water can flow off, so a total of 35.2 cms. If the source block output more than that, the water will have no where else to go but up.
This also explains why making the hole smaller had no effect, you still had a 4x4 top, with 16 small waterfalls.
16:03 Matt finally learns how to use the view layers!
New myth: Matt is never gonna use stream gauges, so he does not need to eyeball water levels
@@-SaKage Glad I am not the only one facepalming everytime he eyeballs water levels.
CMS is probably cubic metres per second, a measure of throughput
I came here to say this but you beat me to it!
it definitely is
Agreed on the abbreviation, but I learned to characterize such a measurement as "volumetric flowrate" rather than throughput (which to me sounds like factory production, e.g. widgets per week or whatever). Are there regions where volume per unit of time measures are commonly called throughput?
I argue that the proper unit should be m³/s, but Americans love to make abbreviations for everything.
@@matt.604 it should also be CFS or CF(oF)S (cubic feet (Of Freedom) per second)...because 'Murica
The youtuber Pravus did a look-see into the new features with dev commands, and make a city ON a giant bridge. You need to give it a bridge review. Or at the very least, make living on a giant bridge the megaproject for your next timberborn series.
Is a beaver immortal while commuting? Old age? Disease? Can you juggle a beaver on a commute so it lives forever?
it's amazing that the silly little beaver early access game not only became a amazing city builder, but just casually added the best water simulation in a game ever.
Well waterworks is kind of the main point of the game, beavers build dams, and literally the only threats in the game are the water drying up/going bad.
Well, it's really only got cities skylines for competition afaik.
The thing is you can use even less materials by using the 3x1 overhangs (covered with impermeable floors of course) in the bad water trough facing backwards towards the bad water source and have the trough capped with levees. Rather instead of the layout shown in the video.
Regarding the "covered water will evaporate" thing, I suspect that the "evaporation" mechanic is also used to cover water seeping into the ground, which is why covered water seems to evaporate.
After all, you see water seeping into the ground all the time as it greens up the map (or spreads contamination for badwater), but mechanically it's just easier to have that be the same mechanic as evaporation (i.e. less work for the devs).
This is actually a great sponsorship, teaching everyone the new updates entertainingly
the shallow water evaporating faster is slightly misleading, as each tile evaporates at an equal rate regardless of the amount in it, but when you are 2 tiles deep only the top tile is evaporating. So if you had a 2x1 compared to a 2x2, instead of 2x1 vs 1x2, you would see them evaporate at the same rate.
Yea! Evaporation is calculated on surface area and not depth.
Except the water level in the deep pool actually dropped faster. When the shallow pool had some left, the water level in the deep pool was significantly below the levie, which probably means that water drains into the soil aswell. Interesting that nobody seemed to notice
Some notes/questions:
Reservoirs at the ends of pipes myth: You talked about how it didn't used to equalize above the height of the pipe, and then apparently tested with water levels that didn't end up above the height of the pipe.
Covered water: Do impermeable floors make any difference in this, rather than covering with levees?
100 myths: What base is that in?
Regarding that base of 100 in "100 myths" : just count the total number of myths busted, take the square root, and if that is a positive integer then that's the base, if it isn't then the claim "100 myths busted" was a lie.
I agree with the reservoir one, the water evaporated so both tanks wound up below the pipe so the test was botched
While that test was crap, it was actually already confirmed in the Creedy Cup one, there we already saw that waterlevels are the same for reservoirs that are connected below surface level.
Imagine if the capping would make the wood explode causing a massive storm of poo or the poo would spurt out the top like a geyser 5:54
A full hour of Timberborn testing the new water simulation physics and busting myths? And on a Thirsty Thursday, no less? My hydrologic simulator soul is deeply pleased
The geyser demonstration alone has already convinced me that I need to spin up a new colony and see if I can build an aesthetically pleasing geyser-- I can see what they've done to feign the water pressure release, and I need to test whether it's source-dependant only or surface-area (as in flat surface atop geyser spout) dependant as well.
Now Devs, HEAR MY PLEA: A specifically hydrophilic beaver clan with water-dependent breeding mechanics and unique underwater/water-adjacent tech. I'd happily buy a DLC clan of water-logged (get it?) beavers.
A water dependent clan would be awesome, we have a wood based and a metal based one
Thrusting Thursday*
Anyone else think its weird that the industry-focused IronTeeth only get the Badwater Discharge, but the FolkTails get that AND the Badwater Rig?
Also, the geyser height is limited by the builf height, Matt.
the it discharge is more powerful though, since it also allows for emitting during the dry season (which is useful for continuous power).
Oh, and; the water DOES go into the ground. "Evaporation" in the game is more like leaking.
"builf height"
Keep your kinks out of this.
Folktails don't get a discharge, they get a dome which can only shut off the badwater completely. The iron teeth's discharge can keep badwater flowing during a drought, while the FT's rig can give very large amounts of badwater-per-beaver at the cost of not being able to get any power at all from the badwater source anymore.
Basically folktails are setup to want to seal badwater off, while iron teeth are setup to want to keep it running at all times.
I’m still surprised the industry focused iron teeth don’t have a power plant that runs on Badwater. Although I guess that’s what water wheels in the perpetually open badwater is.
25:30 i love how he thinks it's centimeters squared instead of cubid meters per second
He must actually be an architect
I actually hate that. I don't understand why they would use the american system, when the developer is not from the US
you can change the water and poo water sources output by clicking on it and changing the number from 1 to 8
53:30
This reminds me of that one beaver working in the train
It never died because it never stopped working
49:10
Hey! It's Mat, and welcome back to Let's Engineer It Out.
water evaporation works based off the surface area, how deep or shallow it is does not matter one bit. So the reason your shallow water evaporated 2x faster is because it had 2x the surface area...
Basically a 1x1 hole 1 deep and 1x1 hole 2 deep will have the top 1x1 water evaporated at the same time. It's not that the 1 deep hole will be empty while the 2 deep hole has more than half left.
Which would indeed bust the myth and your explanation is why that is (and why it, like with Matt's setup seems it would be confirmed).
The devs also tweaked evaporation to reduce it based on number of tiles on the sides that is also water. ( so 9 isolated 1x1 tiles evaporate much faster than one 3x3 pond ). The 3x3 pond also irrigates a vastly larger area than a 1x1 tile ( new mechanic in 0.5 O think ).
@@familhagaudir8561 If adjacent water was a factor, the 1x2 shouldn't have been gone at the same time as the top half of the 1x1 though. ....
@@dkSilo 31:20 Look carefully, the 1x1 tile is evaporating faster.
@@familhagaudir8561 Yeah, I think that's because it's on soil with no levie underneath. This trial was totally skewed
18:52 why are you apologizing. We love Paddy
Never apologize for paddy barking
The siphon didn’t have water ALL the way full, which means it wouldn’t work anyway. Unfortuantely I’m not sure if it’s possible to have full block of water with a drain under it, but more (or stronger) water sources might do it
Maybe if the flow rate was more than 2.2cms?
If he plugged the bottom exit hole, wouldn't that have worked to fill up the end part?
Timber-Thursday! Yay.
Excited for more Update 6 gameplay
I really LOVE the editing of this video... Your editor did a great job. The cuts, the animations, the sounds... perfect! 🙂
Myth. Water will drain off the map if it goes above build hight. That's why your poocano didn't geyser as high.
I think there’s a cap on how high water can flow, hence why the water and badwater geysers had a consistent height.
there's just a height limit on the maps, you can't build above that height either. there's probably a mod for that somewhere though
35:00 I like the interaction between RCE and the editors
30:27 I have a myth, will RCE ever use that water level measuring thingmaging ?
I only used that once and that was because I had to irrigate an aquatic farm from a river with a higher water level and prevent it from overflowing, but at the same time I needed to water from the river to continuously supply the farm during a drought so I used the pipes from the old water mod to regulate water in and output and regularly checked if the water level in the farm was rising or falling. But now that we can put levies on top of platforms and pressure doesn't seem to be a thing (siphon doesn't work), it should be possible to limit the water level using a drop pipe
Anyone else feel like this was just a way to get Matt to do their QA work and test possible fixes/bugs?
The unlimited power is awesome, anyone who does it just need to have some way of refilling the water lost to evaporation, otherwise it would run dry eventually. sluices would help keep the "start" of the channel at a set level always, if there was a basin behind it to refill with. quick tip :)
9:00 the reducing of the hole of the geyser from 4 to 1 with the same output, proved that the game is capping the max amount of pressure. So there is a chance that the geyser will still work with less water sources and a smaller pyramid, but still the same output!
I Love Walking walked for EIGHT YEARS without drinking, eating or sleeping. That beaver really did love walking!
25:00 as you saw earlier, waterwheels only check the water in the center.
To properly test this, you wo need overhangs pouring water directly on the center of the wheel.
57:40
but you can put a whole layer of windmills and gravity batteries high up and have all the space below to play... and you can now just have vertical shafts drop power to any space on the map.
Regarding that beaver that died after the commute, you said maybe they can't die on paths that seems like an interesting test. Build walls to stop them from going off paths and then don't feed them.
8:15 getting serious creeper world vibes here. Maybe you could make those pyramids with bad water sources to simulate emitters, and then use water pumps like anti-creep dispensers. The beavers could then act as the energy with paths as power lines.
I think the first myth is related to fresh water and badwater flowing from normal sources. At one point (and I think it's still the case, but not sure) water flow increased during badtides, resulting in increased power.
31:36 That's interesting, the evaporation happens per surface area, but if you look closely, they didn't actually evaporate at the same rate. The water level in the deep pool actually fell faster, you can see that in reference to the horizontal lines. Now you have to test if Water on soil "evaporates" faster than on levies, or rather, if soil drains additional water, because I think that is the case here
The water pumps and wheels reminds me of a hydro project here in California that makes unlimited power. Water from courtright dam is used to make power in day time, then at night water from wishon is pumped back up to courtright to be used in the day.
57:35 Btw. Wind like Sunlight at the time are not impacted by any buildings, so you can make underground powerplants.
I do however feel like we probably gonna see that get implemented at some point, hopefully with farm lamps, that let us still grow stuff underground at the cost of resources and energy (I mean we do already have the algae and fungi growing buildings).
Since the water source can have different water preasure settings (at least when you turn on dev mode) it can be different per map.
2:31 it actually did that before update 6 already! I tried it out and it was a great find for my colony
You should try playing lift lands! Only the demo is available right now but i think youll enjoy it
on the unlimited power - yes, but you have to take evaporation into account. excellent video, saved me figuring a load of this out so thankyou very much indeed
Timberborners is on sale until October 24th
Shallow water doesn't evaporate faster per-say, water with more surface area exposed to the air will evaporate faster, which is actually acurate to real life. It just so happens that an effect of this in game is that; Water that is deeper, as well as the same physical volume, will last longer against evaporation due to the diminished surface area exposed to the air.
For example: If you had a 2x2x2 vs a 1x1x1, the 2x2x2 water would of lost 4 cubic tiles of water in the same time the 1x1 lost 1 cubic tile, even though the 2x2x2 is deeper. It's all about surface area, and not depth. It just looks like depth is effecting it because of how it works out when you have the same physical amount of water with different amounts of surface area interfacing with the air, like in your 1x1x2 in two different orentations example. However it's really just the 1x1x2 layed flat has twice the surface area exposed to air, so it evaporates twice as fast. ;)
Was going to make the same point.
A fairer test to see if depth actually affected it would be to have holes of same surface area but different depth and see how long each takes to evaporate one "layers" worth of water.
Your comment is true, but I think the game is coded differently. If you follow SkyeStrome he explains it in his recent Timberborn season because he had a lot of problems with evaporation. Water tile evaporation is measured by the surrounding tiles. A 1x1 water tile surrounded by normal tiles, like the deep one in the video, has a 100% evaporation rate. From there, each water tile surrounding that water tile subtracts from that 100%, I don't know how much though. But that is the main reason why the 1x1 tile evaporates faster in the video than the 2x2. Skye had to really think of a solution and experimented a lot. That experiment should be done again with the same-sized holes. I think shallow water evaporates at the same rate as deep ones, except when it's really low levels.
@@kilianatra9772 To add to that, a really shallow (like 0.2 tile) water has something like 10,000% evaporation rate
@@kilianatra9772This effect did show up in this video, when the shallow water pool dried out, the deep water one had evaporated more than 1 tile, so the evaporate rate is smaller for bigger surface area, but the total water evaporated become more as well
@@kilianatra9772 Interesting. My comment was more to say thst there was an error is his testing methodology, rather than to difinitively say whether or nor the myth is actually true. I'd deffo be interested in seing rce do some more indepth testing, this time with sound methodology.
46:18
there isnt friction, but sluices arent pumps, once the water is the same height on both sides it cant do anything
They’re a check valve so that checks out.
I’ll show myself out
46:13 the reason it doesn’t work with the sluice, is simply because it at max will equalize the water, where the pumps will raise the water level on the other side. Creating a water level difference -> Flow
9:32 definitely missed an opportunity to say Scheiße
He did multiple times
RCE I totally saw what you saw when you said "That can't just be me". I 100% saw an equal sign. So funny LOL. It totally was an equal sign. Or did you see something else? Maybe something you are completely obsessed with. Something you want desperately in your life? Seems like you really like a certain object more than most. Maybe you should come out and just be yourself because clearly you really enjoy this particular object very much. Don't worry we will all still watch you and support you no matter who you love.
Really? 🤦🏻♂️
I think the evaporation myth is based on surface to air more than depth. So each cube evaporates in the same time, like you showed, watter gets to one level down at the same time. More interesting would be if you have a tank with only one hole to the surface, does it evaporate just as fast as a completely open one without a roof.
Skye Storme has a great large scale demonstration of the perpetual motion energy machine in his last series on the Mountain Range map. I would highly recommend any Timberborn player check out the videos where he builds it. It might be overkill, but it sure is a fail-safe power solution.
56:14 They use "Direct Pathfinding" meaning they'll use the shortest route possible, directly to their target. Building targeta require a pathway which they'll follow the shortest one possible to the target using the pathway which is why they don't use shortcuts to get to work, eat, drink, rest etc.
Yeah but putting a road in makes it the normal way instead of a shortcut. Shortcuts in real life are typically places you shouldn’t be
35:22 - Your call for help has been heard. Care package is being coordinated now. Waiting for RCE to take Paddy for a walk.
Agree - much help needed, limited time to resolve at 35:23
Matt channelling his inner Josh, though what he does is to orderly.
24:00 the devs casually adding adwanced Air pressure physics
For shallow water you need to have a 1x1 and a 1x2 deep. The 2x1 has higher surface area so of course evaporates faster because it’s based on area
7:52 I wonder how much pressure would've build-up if it was only 1x1 hole.
'Strongest shoot ever. '🎉🎉🎉
Evapourtion: Is by surface area - i.e. the same area evaporates at the same time, if you double the surface area but keep the same volume, then it'll evaporate faster.
10:32 This dedication deservers a like 👍
27:15 I think they were talking about picking it up to bring it to a building to use it, that might work
57:27 it also doesn't care about obstructions. You can put them under the ground or in a tower - it will be the same
What is your opinion on architect beavers?
They will be shamed and provide power for the engineering beavers
@@RealCivilEngineerGaming Sounds productive and renewable, you could use their tears as hydropower!
@@RealCivilEngineerGamingso you’ll have them pump and discharge a perpetual energy badwater dam?
44:48 You could make something like that in real life, although it wouldn't be perpetual motion as you would need to put more energy into the pumps than you would get out.
The looping power arrays generate a ton of power when built right as they can take a constant source like capped badwater and blow them out to much higher flow using pumps. Hundreds of thousands of horsepower is possible :D
My thoughts:
8:34 That isn't an equilibrium, that is as high as the world goes.
But I think it is a bug/engine limit that it stops spreading further.
30:40 It is neither faster nor slower.
Water evaporates based on surface area.
44:55 It works because the Wheels produce more power than the pumps consume.
They aren't using the same water flow/power conversion.
46:17 Water just flows from higher to lower elevation. No elevation difference, no flow.
56:00 Their pathfinding score is A Star!
Just started playing Timberbrone and i cant play it without hearing Matt's voice narrating the Beavers in my head. Oi what are you doing, you just sat on your arse
To ensure that the beavers don’t drown, you would need to:
Block the map edges: Make sure there are barriers at the map edges to prevent water from flowing out, which would simulate water containment.
Monitor water height: Track the water level to ensure it's not too high for the beavers. You could set a maximum height that they can safely swim in before drowning occurs.
By controlling these two factors, you'd have a more accurate environment for observing whether beavers could drown based on water levels in that specific situation.
To test shallow vs. deep water evaporation, I would use something that has the same surface area, but one is deeper than the other. So a 2x1 1 deep vs a 2x1 2 deep. Probably will still get the same results with evaporation being per exposed tile, but....
"I love walking" we will always remember the journey you took for us 🤧
The feels!!! 😭
I thought it was a special compilation But NO WAW matt is always working extra hard for us, truly unmatchable
25:33 it is not about the height of the water but the flow rate. cm / s is not centimeter squared --> cm / s is cubic meter per second
We need more Patty cameos in these videos. Instantly makes the video 100x better.
I think its not going higher because its the build limit
8:53
A a tile can allow a max flow of 2.2 over the edge downwards per edge
A 2x2 levee square (8 edges) with water dropped on top would allow 8.8 flow without accumulation
At the top there’s 16 edge tiles allowing 35.2 flow
The 8x8 source tiles generate more than 35.2 resulting in the same geyser regardless of the hole size at the top
Ps.theres no max flow rate on a tile edge going upwards only downwards is restricted
hey RCE, I'm actually streaming Timberborn right now on my other channel. I appreciate you doing this. It'll give me a few fun things to try tonight. :)
I love infinite power. I have created a power station with every build since I discovered it. You just need to make sure it auto fills to combat evaporation. takes a bit of room though. you could do this ever since pumps were introduced.
11:25 " aaaah balls"😂😂
MATT!! You should do time lapse for the building could be satisfying
17:46 you could have seen if they made more power to figure that out lol
There's a mod called Dam Extensions that has 3x1 levees. An interesting thing about them is that the build point is on one side rather than in the center, so you can use those to cover up a badwater source in the same way. In fact, if you have a line of water sources, you can put sluices on both sides, set one to open for clean water and the other to open for badwater, then cover up the water sources with the 3x1 levees, you can make it fill up higher than the water source, allowing you to make big ol' reservoirs that are completely badwater free.
That just means it’s a poorly made mod.
@@dylanzrim3635 Or extremely useful, but sure. The mod works perfectly fine for me, but hey, if you want to be a negative nancy, by all means.
thank you for getting me into this game, it's so relaxing
isn't just the build limit? that's why it didn't go as high as it should
This kind of content is why I subscribed to your channel... I especially loved the greedy cup section.
oh water pumps are actually really good. I struggle to conceptualize the use for the really late stuff
The water and badwater stops at max build hight
16:39 surely the water isngoing into the ground which is how land is fertile for plants in the game?
Honestly this just makes me more and more impressed with Timberborn as a whole.
Matt, there's a building in game that records flow rate. Use that!
Rce, you should use a Stream Gauge for water high at 30:57
Forest gump would be proud of i love walking. you wont be forgotten
I do hope they find a way to combat cheaper blockages of bad water sources. Maybe by not allowing building on top of it, until you block it with the respective buildings from both factions or something?
Suggested Myth:
Can you increase the contamination or decrease the contamination of a pool of water?
So you have two identical pools of water each at exactly 50% contamination. If you have have regular pumps on one and bad water pumps on the other will that increase or decrease the contamination respectively.
Remember I Love Walking. He walked the path no one else could take (due to using shortcuts)
So, the infinite power is doable.
it works best with a badwater source.
make a snaking path of water wheels leading to lower resevoirs being pumped back to the upper resevoir, and you can calculate how much power it will generare in equilibrium with evaporation.