Classical Record Collector Asks - Are The DG Original Source Reissues Worth Buying?
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- Опубликовано: 7 май 2024
- A video looking at the DG reissues.
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I really like DG. They were the label that ignited my passion for classical music with their mega selling Adagio Karajan compilation. A few years after hearing it I was in University taking a degree in musicology. I think they're one of the few big classical labels that has managed to stay relevant by their expansion into less conservative areas of the classical music domain. Their cover art design template is fabulous, and their cover art has been consistently good for decades unlike so many classical labels that have abysmal cover art.
But of course, it's the music that counts, and it can be approached in many different ways. I am not an audiophile, but I do appreciate a quality vinyl pressing as those pops and crackles are especially annoying when listening to classical music, hence 99% of my collection are CDs. But if I find splendid vinyl, I cherish it like nothing else. I'm sure many of these collectible records have better sounding and better performed versions of many great works, but on vinyl these recordings are out of my price range. Luckily I am able to get immense enjoyment from £1 classical records found in my local charity shop. Where I live those 50s and 60s vinyl pressings aren't available, but from the 70s and onwards there's plenty of EMI, Decca, Archiv and DG to be found. Rarely do I find those labels to release mediocre performances, although they might not always be the "greatest". But usually they're a lot better than many lifeless and straight forward recordings released on budget labels like Naxos.
I might also be in the minority as I prefer chamber music and piano music to symphonic works. If I listen to the latter it is usually concertos, or post-romantic works which I often find a lot more interesting musically.
You're right about DG's cover art. They've given us many many perfectly beautiful album covers from the early 1970s onwards. Truly works of art.
Based in Germany, he is in the marketing profession if I recall correctly... He is also a record dealer now, an extension of Acoustic Sounds for Europe as shipping from USA to Europe by Acoustic Sounds was super expensive. He is fascinating to listen to though....
Yeah if you like pretentious Germans with too much discretionary funds who say "Wow." and "Fantastic" about everything. I think he is seen as a "vinyl influencer" more than a true authority like Fremer or others.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and thoughts.
I might be misinterpreting, but I thought Michael 45 meant that the Ma Vlast comes in a gatefold as all of the DG Original Source Series titles do, not as previous issues of Ma Vlast do. Also, Michael 45 reviews lots and lots of jazz titles, pretty much all small group jazz from the '50s to '70s.
In most of his reviews, Michael 45 talks about the packaging, the quality of the jacket, whether there are any pack-ins such as booklets with essays about the music or composer, or photos from the recording sessions, and so on. Yes, he cares about collectors' paraphenalia as you call it.
Personally, I care about the packaging and the extras. Of course, the quality of the music is by far the most important thing, with sound quality very important, too. But for me, part of the experience and enjoyment of vinyl over CDs and hi-res streaming is the tactile experience of handling the record, holding the jacket and enjoying the full-size photos and artwork, and any essays that have interesting information about the music. I love that stuff.
The one area in which Michael's reviews fall short for me is that many of his reviews are predictable and lacking in details (other than obvious details). He reviews a lot of AP/QRP and other audiophile or near-audiophile pressings, and he says exactly what you're expecting--they sound great. He is often sparse on specifics, which sometimes makes me wonder how much he really knows about the music he's reviewing. He clearly doesn't understand that orchestral recordings are just as popular as chamber music and also sound great on a good system, as you say. For example, I have about 4 dozen RCA Living Stereo classical titles, most pressed by QRP, most orchestral, and they sound absolutely wonderful on my system. Nothing is muddy or incoherent. Chamber music sounds great, too, if it was well-recorded, mastered, and pressed. Where is he getting these ideas from?
In contrast, Scott Wilson on his channel The Pressing Matters does research on researches the recording session, the history of the recording or the artists or the context in which the record was made; he uncovers fascinating information and shares it with us, which to me really adds to my enjoyment of and appreciation for the records. He does very detailed and helpful comparisons of all the pressings he can obtain of a given recording. He is very specific about the particular strengths or weaknesses of the various pressings.
Michael 45 could learn a thing or two from studying Scott's reviews. But Michael won't bother. He's rich, he's having fun with his channel, he's surely getting lots of free stuff from Chad Kassem, he has no incentive to take the time to hone his reviewing skills.
I still like Michael 45 and enjoy many of his videos, I just think The Pressing Matters and other channels provide more specific, useful info.
This is the first video of yours I've seen and I enjoyed it very much. I'm happy to subscribe and I will check out more of your videos.
Best wishes,
Ron
Thanks for your detailed comment. I will be commenting on specifics when I do my comparisons - not just saying "the difference is obvious". I don't fully trust his reviews of classical music. A pressing can be full of detail and clarity - but still not sound as good as another pressing that has a sweeter top end and smooth brass presentation. A lot is subjective and all any of us can do is offer our own perception.
I agree about Michael. He's entertaining and it's fun to see what you can get your hands on when budget conditions are favourable. Scott at The Pressing Matters is a cut above though, as you suggest. You can tell he LOVES the music he's discussing, to the point that even talking about some pieces bring a tear to his eye. Seems a lovely, humble fella.
I have an original pressing of Kleiber/Vienna/Beethoven 7 in NM condition and the Original Source reissue. As much as I love the older record, the Original Source version is vastly superior. I listen exclusively to classical and have a 1400 album collection. I think you’d find the history of these recordings and the methodology of the reissue process used extremely interesting. I’d recommend that you seek out the videos posted on the channel “Music on Record” concerning the Original Source project.
From what I’ve seen online, reviews are somewhat mixed about these DG releases, some records being seen as truly excellent and others disappointing. On Amazon now, Brahms: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 is priced at £45.99 and comments from purchasers are also rather mixed.
Interesting take, look forward to more when you get your hands on a copy. It's worth noting for your context that M45 is now a well-established record seller, rather than a hobbyist. He mainly now sells (and thus favours) the sound of original records which he sources from a big wholesaler in Denmark and, actually, a classical specialist based in London. The exception being the reissue titles he resells from Acoustic Sounds. His reviews have always tended to mirror his commercial interests.
The DG Original Source series has been well-reviewed, in general and with exceptions, by independent sources such The Tracking Angle and Audiophilia.
"A man's library is a sort of harem," said Emerson, and I'm thinking the same may apply to record collections.
This is an odd dialogue. You are familiar with the piece and the recording, so it seems to me you have the means to answer two or three questions:
1. Is this recording of Ma Vlast worth the kind of expense it would take to acquire the most recent release? You and your pals may have shunned it in your youth, but it is one of the reference recordings, and both Kubelik and the orchestra have excellent credentials for idiomatic virtuosity. The BSO was led by Steinberg at this time, and he was a great orchestra builder and leader. All the DG recordings done with the orchestra at this time are excellent. So there are a lot of things going for this release. But the music- is it worth it? You decide!
2. The second question is whether the changes being made to these recordings in the current mastering process make the release worth buying instead of a vintage release? Obviously, this can only be answered after making a purchase, and this is the main reason I bought the Abbado BSO Debussy/Ravel release. To my ears, it sounds like modern monitoring technology has made is possible for all phase issues with the tracks to be straightened out, so the charming ambiance of the hall (that has a left-to-right travel to the anbiance in the original LP) has been brought into keen focus (and the weird acoustic fingerprint of America's finest orchestra venue, eliminated). Is it different? Yes. Does it sound good? Certainly. Is it better than the original? I don't know- I like the original release just fine- and the CD.
3. Speaking of CDs, why bother with the LP at all? What's wrong with the CD/HD releases of it? I realize that a lot of people are completely allergic to this question, but anyone who believes that digital is inherently inferior to any LP has embraced dogma over evidence. All you can do is check it yourself.
Our charming German reviewer is just not an expert on classical music or any particular aspect of this work, conductor, orchestra, recording venue, etc. and the value of his very superficial comments are negligible.
Speaking for myself am I buying this release? No. But I did buy the Steinberg box, as he's a favorite of mine, and you only live once.
Nobody is claiming vinyl is objectively superior to other formats. It is purely a subjective preference. I and many others enjoy the sound more than cd or streaming despite the measureable technical disadvantages.
If you prefer digital streaming and cd I wonder what you are doing here on this channel. I think you could have stated point 3 first and saved yourself the trouble of the remainder of your post.
Some of the classical music lovers online do indeed think that many but not all of the Orginal Source Series do sound significantly better than the originals. They were all remastered from the original four track tapes. I have one, Beethoven Seventh Symphony and it sounds wonderful but I don’t have the original to compare. Michael Johnson who’s an oboist in a US orchestra has done reviews of many. His knowledge of classical works is very comprehensive. I don’t want to give the name of the website as RUclips would remove my comment. But if you google his name and classical reviews, you should find it.
In terms of chamber vs. orchestral listening, I do find chamber easier on my ears. Some orchestral recordings have a huge dynamic range and I find that when I adjust the volume to satisfying levels, many passages are just too loud and I have to lower the volume. With chamber music, not so much. Of course, as good as vinyl records are, they really cannot be compared to listening in a concert hall.
The DG Original Source reissues are unique. These records were four channel quad recordings. These reissues are remixed using all four channels mixed down to two channels with zero compression or rolling of the bass and highs. Night and day difference from the originals.
what about cutting close to the label and end of side distortion many buyers are complaining about - even those with top end systems.
I'm surprised that you, as an experienced classical music buyer/seller, don't seem to know this series was around. It's been going wonderfully for months!! And you need to read up on the whole story with this series.. it's not necessarily about "best performances".. it's that they are taking specific four-track recordings from the 70s which never had the best transfers to ordinary stereo, and re-mixing them live to two track with state of the art equipment and pressing.
For one, I do have an original German pressing of Klieber conducting Beethoven 7. The new Original Source completely blows it out of the water! Whether or not you love that performance the sonic difference is clear.
I have been out of the business a long time.
I have rather a lot of DG from the 70s, although I thought the RCA living stereo records had a better sound
I have the original issue. and comes in a box set , and the OG is very good !
Help me out. What does OG mean? Original or the recent reissues?
@@LPCLASSICAL original
OK. I just read a review on Tracking Angle and Michael Johnson says he has the box set and he says about the OG : " It’s thin, harsh, and lacks any type of expansive orchestral image. Percussion is dull, strings are one-dimensional, and the cellos and double basses might as well be nonexistent. So much of this music requires pastorale “bloom”, and the original cut just doesn’t have it."
I have the privilege reissue on 2 LPs so will have a listen. I am very wary of snake oil salesman and prefer to sample for myself. I certainly will not be investing £60+ on this new issue.
@@LPCLASSICAL I don’t wish to get into a pissing match with Michael but his system isn’t my system let’s say ;)
@@Andrew_from_Oz_Vinyl_Landscape I found an LP transfer from the set you have on YT and I am going to compare the end of Sarka with my reissue. Johnson says on the DG new reissue Sarka cuts near the label yet on my reissue it is well over an inch from the label. If I can find a YT recording of the new record I will compare that too.
Why ask the question if you can't give an answer because you haven't heard one?
One has to make buying decisions often without trying the product. There are factors to consider. Price for example and technical information by which one can decide if it is likely to be worth it. My question is also inviting those who have heard the product to comment.
My understanding is that critics rate this Ma Vlast version very highly as a performance. It's Dave Hurwitz's top pick:
ruclips.net/video/lZrMh-KFn_I/видео.html&ab_channel=TheUltimateClassicalMusicGuidebyDaveHurwitz:
I've got no idea about its 'collectability' as a piece of vinyl, however.