Choose material that is at your level plus a bit. That way you reinforce what you know and can attempt to second guess the remainder. Then, as you say, interrogate the remainder and try to add them to your knowledge base. This is why personally I favour a 85/15 or better still 90/10 ratio. If you attempt anything harder than that you disillusion yourself and your enthusiasm to continue learning wains……
Thanks Mark! Practically speaking, I don't think I would know how to find materials that sit precisely at a 90/10 ratio for me, do you find that easy to do?
@@realfastspanish No you can’t be sure except by having a peruse. That’s not difficult, it’s a yes or no to being suitable. If not ditch rápido and try something different….
I absolutely agree. From my own experience, every time I've tried listening to a movie or something in spanish that involved words I did not know, it didn't matter how many times I listened to it... I didn't understand what is being said because I haven't studied and learned that new vocabulary yet. I am now going on 4 months of rigorous study and I can tell you I'm starting to understand what's being spoken a lot easier because the input I am listening to has been from vocabulary I've studied and listened to and spoken in sentences many times over. And the more new vocabulary I continue to learn, the better I become at understanding spanish sentences that are being spoken. While I have observed how far I've come in my spanish studies and my ability to speak and understand the spoken language, I realize now that I shouldn't have been so frustrated earlier in my early stages of learning- even just one month ago. Because at the time, I was feeling like I was still not where I wanted to be when it came to being able to speak and form spanish sentences in the way i wish to express myself and I was still having a hard time understanding the spanish language being spoken to me in general. But I see now that our ability to understand is based on how much of the spanish language/vocabulary we study. Just a month later, it's like my brain flipped a switch. I've made tremendous progress and it's understanding so much of what is being said to me in spanish so much easier. Learning a language takes time because you literally have to learn a completely new arsenal of words that are spelled differently, sound differently, and sometimes are structured in sentences differently. The more you study, and make sure to practice hearing and speaking those words in sentences, your brain will make the switch! It's going to happen. I've realized that!
This gives me hope, I study portuguese and i can speak, read and write at a good level but listening I still feel like a complete beginner. I have started writing dialogues for my teacher so that she can record her voice for me and because I know what is being said in her recordings the words and sentences are becoming familiar to me..
I can actually answer a lot your questions and doubts about comprehensible input! Firstly, what does "comprehensible input" mean exactly? Well to start by stating the obvious, it is _input_ that is _comprehensible_ . That is, language that you hear or read, rather than produce, and that you understand the meaning of. But like you said, a native English speaker watching your video is receiving input that is comprehensible and they're not learning anything. That's because there is an extra key piece that turns something from simply _input that is comprehensible_ into _comprehensible input_ that will help them improve. That is this: *You can **_comprehend_** input without necessarily understanding all of the words/grammar used.* This is THE MOST VITAL PART OF COMPREHENSIBLE INPUT, and yet it often goes unmentioned. It forms the basis of CI theory, which is that if you _understand_ input, but without fully understanding the words/grammar that was used to express it, you begin to learn (subconsciously, it should be mentioned) what that vocabulary/grammar means. So a precise definition of comprehensible input might be: "Input of which the meaning is understood, but of which the language used to express that meaning is not fully understood" _(Note: "Comprehensible input" is normally used to refer not only to this type of input, but rather input that is at the correct level of comprehensibility such that it contains this type of input. "2 hours of comprehensible input" means 2 hours of input where sometimes I understood the meaning and not the language, but including the parts where I understood both or neither.)_ This then answers your second question: How comprehensible should the input be? It should maximise the amount of input where you understand the meaning without understanding the language. So with a podcast, you'll need to listen to much easier language so that the language you don't understand has enough context for you to infer the meaning, whereas if you're watching Dreaming Spanish, or even better doing crosstalk, then the language can be much more complex because there are lots of other cues you can use to work out the meaning without knowing the language. Generally this will mean somewhere between 80% and 100% comprehensible. The larger the gap between the amount of meaning you comprehend and the amount of language you understand, the more language you will learn, which is why input with visual cues is so good. By this point I've already fully answered your 3rd question: If you understand the comprehensible parts of the input already, and you can't understand what the incomprehensible parts of the input mean, then how are you meant to learn anything from input? The answer is that you can in fact learn from the parts that you can comprehend, _presuming_ you don't fully understand the language used. To finish off I'd like to share my personal experience of switching to using purely CI to learn Spanish, which was so unbelievably successful to the point where I'm risking the credibility of my opinion by sharing it, but I'm going to anyway. Having learnt a very basic level of Spanish from secondary school and a bit of Duolingo, I found CI and promptly stopped listening in lessons and stopped Duolingo (tbph I stopped that a long time before). I started Dreaming Spanish and initially I had to watch his beginner videos or easy intermediate videos in order to comprehend them. The advanced ones were completely incomprehensible. After only 17 total hours of watching Dreaming Spanish (and a bit of other CI) spread out over a very long time, I can understand almost all of the advanced level videos! I have progressed from A2 to upper-B1 proficiency (European levels). The amount I improved was supposed to take 450 hours of input according to DS. Obviously my experience is extremely anomalous and calls into question the accuracy of my measurements, but even by my most conservative estimates, I've experienced an extremely fast rate of improvement using purely CI. At the very least, pure input has allowed me to improve significantly, learning new vocab and grammar, which contradicts your claims. I also used purely CI to learn a very low level of Vietnamese, which took a lot longer but the comprehensibility of the input was abysmally low since there are very few resources and no cognates. However I did indeed manage to learn some Vietnamese with no study WHATSOEVER. Sorry for such a long comment, I wanted to be thorough. I love the phrase you said about having "strong opinions, held lightly" and I will be stealing that frequently for the rest of my life, so thanks for that. It applies to my opinions here too. Please let me know if you have any disagreements. I feel like I quite definitively answered every doubt you expressed, so I really hope I managed to change your mind.
I have studied Spanish over 20 years both in the classroom and by myself. It appears to me it does on good to study things you don't understand. The progress comes when you continue to study what you do understand and then add to that as you go. It may take years before you grasp the whole language. But you can't advance what you are doing unless you understand what you are doing. Thank you
comprehensible input is a scam because its not comprehensible unless you look up the words and understand the grammer. do you know what acabo de darme cuenta means? Because thats taught in a beginner class (at least where i went to spanish grammer school). There is no way, i would ever , understand that frase, without having a teacher explain it to me. no amount of CI can do that.
@@AdamH-n3l acabo de darme cuenta or me di cuenta, shouldn't have been used in a beginner class. They have a grammar level at B1 - B2. No wonder you didn't understand them as a beginner. Try Dreaming Spanish for 100 hours and see if you still think CI is a scam.
In my experience, the quality of the input matters greatly. After struggling with traditional methods for years, I found that watching content that was 90% or more comprehensible was the fastest way for me to learn. It is not very helpful when I watch Spanish-language news clips or random Spanish-language TV content, but when I match the content to my level I see tremendous results. In particular, I found that the "Superbeginner" and "Beginner" videos on the Dreaming Spanish RUclips channel to be enormously helpful. They are entertaining and I have learned a significant amount of vocabulary and grammar simply from watching them. The Buene Gente web series on the Spanish Playground channel is also a great input resource. When I compare the words I have learned via comprehensible input versus those I have learned using Anki flashcards, my retention from the comprehensible input videos is noticeably better. After trying traditional techniques and failing, the comprehensible input technique is the one that works best for me.
Thanks for sharing Michael! I personally haven't had that experience but it's an interesting discussion. Usually, when I can understand 90% or more of what I'm listening to, there isn't a lot of new learning happening because I already understand 90%, which means it's mostly maintenance.
Retention for a rare word through CI is never going to be as high as through a SRS like Anki. You just won’t see it often enough. On the other hand, a top 100 frequency word will have no need to be in Anki because you will be seeing it all the time.
As a Super beginner Listening to my target language by playing music or listening to an audio book with ZERO comprehension really works for me. I totally agree that it does not improve my Spanish so studying is a Critical part of the process but when I listen to Spanish it calms my mind and prevents it from the frustration of trying to translate. I listen for sounds, rhythm and dialect which are things you can’t pick it in a book. I wouldn’t recommend doing what you did by listening to incomprehensibly language in the car on my way to work because it would be too distracting. I listen when I’m taking a walk or relaxing. To me this feels like poetry. You don’t have to comprehend music or art or the words of Shakespeare in order to feel a connection. I am learning Spanish to not only speak the language but to connect with people, culture and have meaningful experiences
I am a French teacher and I have learned several other languages. I use comprehensible input, but the way I make things comprehensible to my language learners is to provide a translation in English. Everything is bilingual. Comprehensible input has been closely associated with the Natural Approach, which only uses the target language. I have taught using only the target language but I find that you make some gesture or use a drawing to show the meaning of something and you waste a lot of time playing charades and the students only have a vague idea at best of what you are trying to say, and they guess the meaning in English. And you could have just given them the meaning in English in 2 seconds. But I think comprehensible input is a valuable way to learn a language. But I am not a purist and I also believe that interaction in the target language is essential. You can't learn to speak without ever speaking. Language is communication. Listening and reading are great but at some point, you need to use the language in real communication. But complete beginners are unable to do this, unless they use Google Translate or something. Many teachers use only grammar and output based teaching. I strongly disagree with this approach because the students do not develop sufficient listening or reading skills. They go to the country and cannot understand a word after studying the language for years. I do teach vocabulary and verb conjugations through translation and the vocabulary is in sentences, providing some inductive grammar acquisition. For more advanced learners, a target language only class works well. A lot of people confuse comprehensible input with the direct method of target language use only. I apply comprehensible input principles but use translation as a means of making things comprehensible. It works fine for beginning learners. For intermediate or advanced learners who are at a B1 level or higher, you can use target language for instruction if you speak slowly and use a drawing or gesture to show the meaning. But for beginners and novices, I find translation is very helpful. I do language exchanges and online lessons in Spanish using target language only. It was rough at the start because I was only at an A2 level. Now at a B1 level and it is ok. When you are forced to interact in the language one-on-one, you make great progress. I make mistakes all the time but I can communicate and get my point across and understand Spanish. But the native speakers are probably changing their speech a little so I understand. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing Ron!! Yes, this is really interesting. As I mentioned in video, I think a lot of people would say that comprehensible input is about using drawings and charades to avoid using translation to another language. And I find it so interesting that teachers describe the process so differently. By your definition, I think everything I'm doing on this channel is comprehensible input because I usually give an English sentence and then a Spanish sentence. But, others would say that it's not.
I was a French Immersion teacher for many years and what you have described was exactly my experience. You quickly get to a point where you can't use pictures or act out scenarios. The student has to learn to use bilingual dictionaries.
Thank you for this video, you’ve stimulated my thinking. I don’t teach language, but my specialties are in education technology, learning, and development. The reason “comprehensible input” is not well defined is because what is considered comprehensible is different for each individual as they approach the topic. Borrowing from Adult Learning Theory each person will be driven to learn because they have a reason to learn. Once that reason to learn is established they will look for how to acquire the knowledge. What is comprehensible is determined by life experience, level of literacy in one’s primary language, and one’s ability to think abstractly about those topics. The i+1 is an idea that comes from the idea of scaffolding. The 1 is very subjective and will be different from topic to topic. For example I’m an IT person, so learning new technology words will be more about vocabulary than comprehension once I’ve achieved enough Spanish. However I know almost nothing about cooking, so would have to learn cooking concepts at the same time. From an educators perspective, particularly in asynchronous learning (like learning from a video), you have to figure out what the common contexts are for most people viewing. I don’t have to teach you what a cow is, I just have to give you a word for it. I can simply show you a picture of a cow, write vaca underneath it, and have a vocalization for vaca. However, something abstract like “to want” would require some nouns like Yo, juga, carne, or ropa so that you can use the noun as i with +1 being quiero. Yo quiero juga. Because second language learners have a concept of verbs they don’t have to learn what a verb is. To sum up my thoughts: Adults need a reason to learn, goals for those reasons, an established level of comprehensibility, and flexible +1 based on their own broader context.
From what I've experienced regarding comprehensible input, it seems to mean learning a language the way a child learns a language - by interacting with language speakers who are trying to teach the language (like a parent teaching their child). It requires more than listening - it requires interacting with the person trying to teach the language naturally (again, the way a parent teaches a child). Check out Spanish Comprehensible Input | Online Learning; Spanish comprehensible input full course; Spanish After Hours if you haven't already. As always, thanks for your videos - they help a lot.
Thanks for sharing Jim!! Being forced to interact the way a child does definitely helps solve the motivation and distraction problem that we have to face as adults with lots of other commitments. 😊
They really require very specialized content. Even most children’s books will be far beyond the beginner. Yet the promise that is often sold is you just listen and watch or read native content for your target language. That doesn’t work because you don’t understand it. The Rosetta Stone was an important point in learning ancient Egyptian. We had Egyptian hieroglyphs all over the place. But no one could read them until the Rosetta Stone was found that had the same text in multiple languages. Then they could start to decipher it. And it was still a slow process. With modern language you have to have someone or something teach you the basics enough to figure it out. You can have a guy point to a picture in a class, a picture in a book or app, or a CI video drawing and showing a picture of a girl, either way, it is the same. Also, the CI crowd says you will instinctively learn grammar because of input. Yet you needed how many years of grammar in school for your primary language? You will be able to instantly know what is right and wrong because it doesn’t sound right? What if the materials don’t follow correct grammar? Many conversations, song lyrics, etc don’t follow proper grammar. I know native Spanish speakers that moved to the US and went to English speaking schools but spoke Spanish at home. They still struggle with the grammar because they never had grammar.
Agree 100%. Children make loads of grammar mistakes when they learn a language. But we get corrected by those around us over time. I think there's a strong distortion of reality by the more extreme CI/immersion crowd who insist you mainly just need to listen/watch people speaking a language for a few thousand hours. But it's not how children learn learn their native language at all. We learn through 100% spoken interaction with family and those around us. We don't sit just listening for a couple of years and then suddenly speak whole sentences! Listening/watching TV shows etc is what we do *after* we've learnt some words, with increasing complexity as we develop.
Hi ANDREW BARR at Real Fast Spanish, this was a really interesting video, as a distance learner and self taught student of Spanish- for the last 15 years or so. I’ve tried out many different strategies, an occasional live class with other students ( not really my thing..I tended to compre myself to other students too much), online courses, CD courses, Intercambios, immersion courses in Spain, podcasts, RUclips channels etc etc. So I am intrigued by this ‘comprehensible input’ idea. I’ve heard it defined as content that you understand 85% of. Now over the years it has occurred to me that, obviously we all learn at our own individual pace and that it’s pointless trying to compare your progress with someone else’s and that different strategies work for different people…there is no ‘one size strategy that fits all’ What I have found works FOR ME these days and is really helping my Spanish improve are things like:- * Everyday 25 mins of reading books in spanish that I’ve read and enjoyed in English..and what I do is have the both books in front of me - I read a few chapters in English and then I read the same chapters straightafter in Spanish, noting any curious sentence constructions, or unusual grammar or unfamiliar words that keep reoccurring * I do the same with Netflix films and series, although here it doesn’t matter that I don’t know the plot beforehand, so what I do here I watch the 15 mins of film/series first of all in English but with Spanish subtitles, then I watch the same 15 minutes but this time in Spanish with Spanish subtitles * During the week I watch a several RUclips videos and listen to several podcast where I am REALLY interested in the subject matter * Once a week I have a one hour italki lesson purely in Spanish where the teacher sets tasks for me, like watching un corto o lo que sea and we discuss those during the lesson. The teacher points out any mistakes or misunderstandings and writes down and texts me words and phrases that are new to me..and often sets up improvised rôle plays with me and the teacher to see how well I have learned the new material * I record this lesson and before the next week I go over it again noting my my errors in pronunciation and grammar and any misunderstandings * I have a few Spanish friends where I live in England that I help with their English if necessary but most of the time we just chat in Spanish every few weeks * I make sure I have AT THE VERY LEAST 1 hour of of connection with the Spanish language EVERY DAY Hope this wasn’t too long winded, but this IS WHAT WORKS FOR ME..and I have be using the above strategies over the last year and I truly believe that mi comprensión auditiva, mi comprensión lectura, mi habilidad de expresarme con claridad y pronunciación ha mejorado 100% por el menos en mi modesta opinión I hope this might be useful to you as a Spanish teacher and anyone else as a student of Spanish to hear of my personal Spanish learning journey.
Thanks for sharing Peter! Yes, this is great, it sounds like you have a process that is working for you. I quite like your approach to review recorded sessions of yourself to correct errors in pronunciation, grammar and misunderstandings. I think this is an incredibly powerful strategy!
Kudos for speaking up. It does not matter whether people agree or not. You have taken the time to put a comprehensive argument together, which is also not something most people do.
Hi! Very interesting video! I used to work in a lab doing work on speech technologies. For machines to understand human language they receive spoken text with transcriptions and develop an acoustic model of the language as well as modelling which sounds are associated with what text. Think of the acoustic model as being a collection of the language's phonemes and a model of how likely they are to occur in every possible combination. So when learning languages I tried doing this to myself to build my own acoustic model of Spanish. At home the radio would be tuned almost all the time to Spanish radio stations playing speech without trying to focus on it or understand it. At first it sounds like a load of high speed gibberish, and then something changed in my brain after a week or so, and it no longer sounded like random syllables, it sounded like a stream of words and it seemed to slow down, and I started to pick up words I'd learned, and after a few months, I was listening to radio phone in shows and understanding a lot of what they were saying, and starting to get a lot of my news from Spanish radio. Is this a sensible way to learn a language on its own? Obviously not, but in tandem with other study it helps get used to the sound of the language and be less fearful of hearing it at natural speed. And the thing is it might be helpful and if you already have an internet connection it costs effectively nothing. I don't know if what I describe counts for the CI aficionados but I found it helpful.
It is definitely important to get a lot of input. If you only study the grammar you won’t be able to understand someone when you talk to them. I went through a basic grammar book to start off and then based my entire learning off of listening to music, watching shows and reading books. It’s easy if you watch or read material meant for children or that you have already consumed in English and then work your way up as you get more comfortable.
In terms of CI in reading, I remember my linguistics teacher said if you open a book (I think in this case he meant printed books for advanced learners or native speakers) and find more than 5 new words on the first page, then this book might be too difficult for you. You might not enjoy the book as much because you might be struggling to understand it. In teaching, some teachers would use sign language, real objects, or pictures while talking to the students in class. I personally found it very helpful as a student.
Thank you for this video - very helpful. I do deliberately have 20 mins or so of incomprehensible input each day for one simple reason: I find Spanish speakers very fast, so incomprehensible input actually helps me to get to grips with the cadence and rhythm of the language. I begin to discern individual words and a feel for how it is spoken. I, of course, prioritise 90mins or so each day of comprehensible input and structured learning. But I do find that both inputs are useful. Peace, Steve 🙏
Great video and great discussion!! I am a native English speaker , I also speak German quite fluently I learned it quite rapidly as young man, simply by taking notes, studying them and speaking with native Germans every chance I got which was often because I lived in Germany as young Canadian soldier. And This is where I would agree with you on the "comprehensible input theory" and my doubts with it. I have been studying Spanish with great discipline for the last four years, following many Spanish tutors on RUclips, and listening to Spanish podcasts and Netflix almost everyday for the past three years. However not living in a Spanish speaking country or being able to speak Spanish with natives everyday puts me at a great disadvantage in comparison with how I learned German. I have fervently immersed myself in the "comprehensible input theory" the last couple years In Spanish and I have to say in general, I find it ineffective for the most part. My opinion is this, when learning a language , start speaking and practicing your target language by speaking it at every opportunity, as soon as possible. It's how our brain works by hearing ourselves talk, it engrains it into our memory. There is no greater reward then having an actual conversation with a native speaker of your target language and walking away knowing the person understood you, and you understood them. It is an incredible confidence booster, and you simply cannot get this kind of confidence through comprehensible input ;)
Thanks for sharing Tom 😊 Yes, I agree, speaking practice can really help with confidence. And I love your summary that what worked for you was taking notes, studying them and then practising them every chance you got!!!
Like Tom, I learned German as a young man (28 yrs old) by living in Germany for two years (and taking German lessons while there). I became rather fluent. Now I am trying to learn Spanish living in the US. It's not that it's harder, it's just that it takes a long time. There is nothing that compares to living in the country that speaks the target language, so that you are forced to learn in order to communicate. If my life circumstances were different, I would try to spend two years in Costa Rica.
From my experience, listening to complex Spanish input helps me because I already a lot of the words I am hearing, I am just not recognizing them a lot of the time. But I’ve noticed that the more I listen to Spanish, the more words I can understand because I already know them, it’s just hard to understand them when the words are put together and spoken quickly.
CI has helped me better understand the frequency, usage, and different senses of Spanish words. For example, like in any language common verbs have multiple senses that are not necessary related, 'dejar', 'llevar' etc. CI especially helps here, almost unconsciously I find myself selecting the best sense in context and discovering new senses. Whereas flashcards can freeze a single sense in your mind and obstruct the semantic flexibility you need to understand sentences. But some things I find problematic with CI: mixing CI from Mexico and Spain (and other countries of course) can lead you to think there are semantic differences where there are none - e.g., ordenador, computadora; also if you watch videos with translated captions the translations often lead you astray, you look for word correspondences that often aren't there - the translator used their freedom to come up with a different way to express something - i.e., often translations aren't vocabulary senses but quite different conceptualizations, which can confuse learning. Though the major thing I think CI gets right is you need to enjoy your involvement with the language! Unfortunately, lots of folks are turned off by grammar - and have a poor understanding of it even in their native tongue. All that said I personally have enjoyed and found useful both your videos and more CI-type content like Dreaming Spanish, Easy Languages, Extras, Destinos, etc.
Thanks Christopher. What is the different between CI and just using any general input as a study tool? My central question with this video is the term "comprehensible". I think it's great to use lots of Spanish content to use as a study tool.
@@realfastspanish I understand your concern for the vagueness of the concept but that may be a plus. For me practically it means (at 2 extremes):1. I can understand enough sentences to get the gist of what is being said and I enjoyed listening (if it is too much of a struggle, is boring or I need to really motivate myself to continue then it is a failure and not "comprehensible" for me) 2. I understand every word and enjoy the content. Here I'm happy when the understanding becomes more fluid (my mind does not have to think back, confirm guesses on certain words) and I can deal with faster input. Here I am internalizing the frequency and sense selection (or new senses or presence in a new phrase/chunk) of the words I already "know" within the topic area of the input. Of course, this means for me there are multiple "sweet spots" - which is great, it varies my learning! Personally I think the "input" part- recognizing the sounds, naturally and enjoyably - in contrast to applying a grammatical lesson or ... what I've heard as described vaguely as "studying" is most important - so yes, "general input as a study tool" as you put it is perhaps primary.
I am a retired French Immersion teacher. I learned by the traditional grammar-translation method and it worked for me. I looked up every unknown word, first in a bilingual dictionary and then, when my vocabulary had grown, in a monolingual dictionary. I also studied grammar books. Over time, I began to think in French. I no longer had to translate in my head. But it was a process. I don't believe that it can be rushed. As you have said, progress comes only by study.
I'm trying to learn Spanish and I agree with the method you mentioned at the beginning of the video - learning the literal meaning of what you're saying. When you're listening to a new language, from English to Spanish for example, you're expecting the words to be in a different order. But if you can become familiar with the different formats they use when forming sentences, I think this is a crucial part of learning (at least at the beginning). Thanks for your videos!
I agree with you. I have used your videos for years, but recently began exploring the claims made by these other sites. I wanted some background before trying to help my granddaughter (19 years old) how to speak Spanish. I experienced the usual frustration myself trying to watch or read material a little beyond my level. You're right... it takes very little "incomprehension" to lose comprehension. Thanks for helping clarify.
Good analysis! As an ageing cynic/realist, I think a lot of the immersion/comprehensible input hype is due to how easy it is to make YT videos promoting it. And people love to hear that there's some easy method to learn where you don't even need to get away from your screen! The part I don't get is: how can you be confident in your speaking, when all you do is listen and watch? For me, learning Spanish, my accent was appalling! It took many 1 to 1 lessons to correct my speaking errors. And pronounciation is vital for communicating. I've found that 9 times out of 10, when my bumbling Spanish is not understood, it's not that I'm saying the wrong words. It's my pronounciation. I repeat with more care in speaking, and it's fine, I'm understood. But as I said, it took 1 to 1 lessons practicing with a human tutor to understand that. I think for many, maybe especially as we age, we do need that active interraction. Comprehensible input is great for maintenance though, as you say.
As always, you break things down in a way that is easy to understand. This video is a great reminder that truly studying is the best option. Thank you! ☺️
I find this to be a serviceable definition: Comprehensible input is a technique for acquiring a second language in which input is provided at a level that allows the student to understand most, but not necessarily all, of the target language.
As a Super beginner Listening to my target language by playing music or listening to an audio book with ZERO comprehension really works for me. I totally agree that it does not improve my Spanish so studying is a Critical part of the process but when I listen to Spanish it calms my mind and prevents it from the frustration of trying to translate. I listen for sounds, rhythm and dialect which are things you can’t pick it in a book. I wouldn’t recommend doing what you did by listening to incomprehensibly language in the car on my way to work because it would be too distracting. I listen when I’m taking a walk or relaxing. To me this feels like poetry. You don’t have to comprehend music or art or the words of Shakespeare in order to feel a connection. I am learning Spanish to not only speak the language but to connect with people, culture and have meaningful experiences
I’d love to hear your thoughts on Dreaming Spanish. Pablo draws and repeats a lot (at the lower levels). Is that different than defining unknown words? Does this work?
Thanks Andrew useful and thought provoking. I agree. I enjoy watching Spanish language Netflix shows in Spanish and with Spanish subtitles and when I don't understand something I pause and look it up, and that is definitely helping my ability to understand the language. Watching it without studying it would add little or nothing to my Spanish skills
I am a lower intermediate Spanish learner. Comprehensible and incomprehensible are extremes, for me a lot of spoken Spanish falls in the middle, i know the words being said, but maybe I don't know the meaning of the grouping being used or maybe my ear has difficulty picking some words out in a sentance. Perhaps i knew a few of the words but not all of them. I find now that I understand maybe 50% of what's being said on a Spanish podcast a lot of times meanings can be picked up from the context of the conversation. I hear words that i know being grouped together into a phase that has a compound meaning i didn't know, but sometimes i get it because of the context. I hear a word here and there that pops out, that maybe was blending into other words previously, after that I'm more likely to hear that word again. I hear phases i had learned earlier but maybe I'd forgotten, and i hear them used in appropriate places. I make little connections about the patterns of speech for the vocabulary I've studied, and i feel these little connections are sticky because they are building on things my brain "kinda" knew already. So i disagree with you on this one. Love your videos thank you!
I learned Spanish phrases here and there as a kid, (I grew up in a Mex-Am family so a slight advantage) as a teenager got to a lower intermediate level or maybe a high beginning level. Going from intermediate to advanced was tough and have been using the input method (mostly reading and listening to podcasts)for a year now. First 6 months I saw very little improvement but once I got closer to a year i noticed a huge improvement in my Spanish. For many months i underestimated the input hypothesis but now understand how it works for me. I believe in making the input comprehensible to a point. The problem before was i would say things wrong or at the higher intermediate level still making small grammatical errors, basically sour notes in my output. The input helped that very much.
I agree! I used books on Kindle in Spanish and will spend and hours on break down the sentences and then switch to another book with similar Spanish, listen and follow along. For picking up new words. When practicing words I am familiar with, I like to read a section in a grammar book, and then either listen to a book following along or a tv show, to see if I can find the grammar rule. It has been working great, but it alot of work, and take patience and motivation to do this, but I love every single moment.
You nailed it. That’s also why romantic relationships work so well for learning the target language. Ones partner adds new words spontaneously and provided explanation while one is intently interested.
Comprehensible input for me has these qualities: - Speaking slowly - Pauses and clear breaks in-between sentences and ideas - Lots of visual communication - Repetition of new words in different contexts - Simple short sentences with one or two main verbs or nouns - Lots of non-verbal communication - Mostly common-use words and phrases I might recognize from other studies It's exactly the same as having a friend willing to teach me a thing or two. The best benefit is practicing what I have already learned. I like to have a little bit of casual CI when I can't study. It's better than nothing. It's like when I learn art or music, it can't be all study. I teach piano and I always recommend at least 10% lazy and loose study where you just have some fun. At least 10% to 20% should be hardcore drills and exercises. The remaining time should be normal study. It's about maintaining a realistic routine that you can keep up consistently. So, yes I definitely agree that CI should be more of an activity to do for fun or for practice, but should not be 100% of your time with the language. Or anything for that matter. People learn their native language in a combination of both ways. I think CI helps with consistency, memorization, and immersion.
Wow this video really helped me. Makes sense. I have a list on my phone of words I don’t know in that “25 percent” of incomprehensible input that I look up when I’m watching or listening to stuff to help increase my vocabulary. Over time it helps me progress in my target language. May the grace, peace, and salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ be with all who read this.
Hi, I appreciate a look into comprehensible input from your understanding thereof. I am a self-student of Koine Greek, and I must say, comprehensible input as practiced by students of Latin and Ancient Greek is widely attested as an effective means of acquiring those languages. Although I have seen very old books that employed either a similar or the same methodology, the much acclaimed book, Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata is the darling among Latin aficionados, and a project for Ancient Greek is mimicking its form and structure. Essentially, building from very basic vocabulary and grammatical structure and slowly adding new concepts that are ascertained intuitively. I have read through a few chapters of the Greek rendition and must say that although I was not perusing it from a blank slate scenario, it was rather refreshing with how it unfolds as one reads through it. I have also watched a brief lecture from a linguist whose name escapes me [Edit: Stephen Krashen] , he demonstrated comprehensible input through illustrations and bodily gestures, demonstrating how it could be employed in German. Personally, it seems a fantastic method if it refers to such aforementioned methods. Granted, I also am a strong fan of the interlinear method (provided it be carried out well), though there is strong prejudice against this method as a means of acquiring language. God bless you and have a great day!
This is the most engineer-brain video ever (and I say that with love). The way I think about comprehensible input is that it helps approximate immersion when (as is the case for most of us) we are not living in our target language. You're being a bit glib in saying that the 75% you already understand is useless, because of course hearing that 75% again falls under the category of repetition, which is key to making things stick in our brains. You're absolutely right though that the CI movement gives people an out from the hard work of sitting down, writing things out, looking up questions they have, etc., in favor of just watching a Netflix show.
Haha ❤️ Yes, I agree, if you understand something, hearing it over and over again helps with maintenance and reinforcement. The key is also to continue to expand your knowledge base, and hard work certainly plays an important role here! 😊
I'm a Spanish learner and I'm at an intermediate level, I agree with some what you're saying but I would say I have learned a lot of new words, grammar structures and phrases by listening to input which wasn't fully comprehensible. This is mostly because I have heard something that sounds familiar or something that is logical but there other instances in which I have had to go away and look up what I have heard but this definitely isn't always the case. And my feeling is that the further I get with my ability in Spanish the more useful comprehensible input is becoming.
Thanks for sharing Robert! It's interesting the term "not full comprehensible" and you mentioned that comprehensible input is becoming more useful. My starting point for this video is that these terms are not well defined. It sounds like as your Spanish is improving you are comprehending more complex materials which I think is the process that every student goes through as their skills improve.
I agree that a balanced regular study approach is important. I commenced learning Spanish six months ago with the primary focus on conversation. Everyday conversations and familier phrases. One of your videos on Ir stuck with me. Voy a ......... Another me gusta. Keep your approach, it works. Thanks.
I completely agree. I have been learning spanish with a spanish teacher (on skype) for 14 months and was 55 years old when I started. I had never learned any spanish at all before . At first, my teacher led the conversation and spoke in english to me for most of the time , then translated everything that I replied to him in to spanish ... that way the conversation was at beginners level and relevant to me, which kept me interested and willing to learn. I do put a lot of work in by listening to spanish language on youtube and reading as much as I can , but especially in the beginning, the whole thing would have been a complete non-starter if he hadn't spoken in english and I would have definitely given up.
In my opinion, comprehensible input is important, but only effective if you supplement it with other studies. It is a great tool to remind you of words and phrases that may be somewhat forgotten, or in the back of your mind. On the other hand, I have learned new words and phrases from my clients without asking the meaning. Many phrases just kept repeating, and I figured them out and clarified them (with additional studies, however). I would consider this a form of comprehensible input, so it depends on the content and how it is presented. I do agree though, that you have to have some grasp of the subject you are on and cannot not overstep your boundaries.
I agree with what you have said in the video, and further, I would add that listening to "comprehensible input" is a form of procrastination. You feel like you are putting in the time (passive listening) so then you don't need to study or address goals. Having said that, you do need the i+1 difficulty, but that is best done by a teacher that knows your "i".
Thanks Les, yes, this is exactly what I'm most worried about as a teacher!! I think there are a lot of students passively listening thinking that they are doing the right thing but their skills aren't improving because the activity is too passive.
Let me say first that I am not a teach and have only been learning Spanish for six months using comprehensible input. When I was in my 20s I attempted to learn German using mostly study and I failed miserably. I studied and studied and made no progress. Six months ago, at 34, I decided to give Spanish a try using this method I'd recently heard about. I popped earbuds in at work and listened to podcasts and audio books for 8hrs a day, every day, not having any clue at first what I was hearing. Along with this I used Busuu to do about a half hour of study a day. I didn't have time for any more than that. The difference was night and day. I am to the point now where I can form my own sentences, although I'm far from fluent, and I can understand a huge chunk of what I hear and almost all of what I read as long as it isn't overly technical. Comprehensible input is most definitely a valuable method for study as far as I'm concerned. This will sound a bit antagonistic but I also have never heard comprehensible input described the way you describe it. I've only ever heard that it's basically 90% listening and reading and 10% studying. The idea is to get your ears and eyes trained as you go. It's like one of those glass boxes they have you stand in and try to catch money as it's whipped through the air around you with fans. If you stay in for five minutes you're not going to catch much. but if they left you in there all day and kept adding money you'd probably master it. Anyway, again, I'm not a teacher nor am I yet fluent in a second language. If you'd like to check somebody out who uses this method I'd recommend Steve Kaufman.
I am similar to you. I started studying German and really only improved a lot once I started listening to the news in German .It was hard at first, but repeated exposure helped it become comprehensible.
Thanks for sharing Chuck!! I'm aware of Steve Kaufman and it's part of the reason I was nervous with this video because I'm disagreeing with some of the things he says. But, I still have a lot of respect for him as a person, language learner and teacher. How do you define comprehensible input? You said you would listen for 8 hours a day and not have a clue what you were hearing, that's INcomprehnsible input, isn't it?
@@realfastspanish I would define it as finding input you want to engage with and then listening, reading, or, preferably, both at the same time, and also doing about a half hour of studying. That's essentially it. If you hear something 50 times, even if you don't understand it, it will stick with you and become clearer as you study. It just feels more natural as though it's easing you into the language rather than thrusting you into it, which is how mostly studying felt to me. Maybe Comprehensible isn't the best word for it in the beginning when you literally can't comprehend anything. But the method itself is sound as far as I'm concerned. Now, this doesn't mean your method doesn't work. You speak a second language fluently. Obviously it works. I think it's just about what works best for each of us. it's a language, not math. I don't think there is one true best method that can be applied to everyone. But for me, comprehensible input/incomprehensible input, whatever you wanna call what I learned from Steve kaufman, is what has so far worked best.
Thanks Chuck! I'm still a little confused by what it means and your example demonstrates how people talk about it differently. But, if you know what it means and it is working for you, then that's all that matters!!! 😊
Thanks for some "Aha!" moments, Andrew. I had heard about CI, but had been unable to utilize the idea in my Spanish learning. Now I feel as though the fault was less mine than that of the vagueness of the term. Vague ideas do not make for improvement, but they do make great buzzwords!
Thank you for this thoughtful video. I completely agree. I am an adult repeat beginner and I could not understand the reason for all the enthusiasm over comprehensible input. It seemed far too nebulous to me. I much prefer the methodology of Real Fast Spanish and others that place emphasis on vocabulary and grammar. Keep up your great work.
I watch Spanish language news. This is after I have already seen the English language news. So lots of times I have some idea what they are talking about. I find I am able to pick out individual words and phrases. Also the headlines are printed on the screen. That way I can get new words and add them to my vocabulary list. Not sure if I will ever be fluent in Spanish. I am now 64 years old. I have a 600 day plus streak on duo lingo. I am experimenting with studying scripture in Spanish. That is a great way to find Spanish language speakers that want to practice with you. Maybe for me the goal should just be to keep my mind active by learning new things. I am learning something. I think things that are necessary for fluency but "necessary bit not sufficient" is the key thing here. Thought provoking message. So what about playing duo lingo every day, watching Spanish news, and studying scriptures with Spanish speakers in Spanish. Add to that going to a street food vender who has set up shop in my neighborhood. I keep trying!
Yes, you can definitely be fluent. One of the best students I have ever worked with was 78 and he started learning when he was 71. So it’s possible! I don’t think Duolingo is that helpful. It’s really important that you try different methods, this is critical!!!
I could not agree more. I’ve been a French teacher for over twenty years and am learning Spanish currently and apply the same rules and practices that I always encouraged my students to do. There are different learning styles from auditory to visual learners. Regardless it is still important to comprehend what you hear and see. Gracias
I think you are 100% correct with this. My wife's family almost speaks 100% Spanish. Now I have been married to her for 43 years and listen to Spanish every day. I can pronounce the words and completely understand certain phrases without thinking of English. But I still cannot hold a conversation in Spanish. We are planning to eventually move to Mexico. So I decided to put more effort into my Spanish. For the past two weeks I have been studding the construction/grammar of the language. In just two weeks of studding grammar and verbs tenses. I can say it has brought me light years closer to holding a conversation in Spanish. I think even if you knew many words and their meaning (As I do). If you don't know how to make a sentence you cant understand or communicate. It's just a bunch of disconnected words. My mother in law is the same way. She has lived in the US for probably more then 60 years (She speaks very little English). Now even with just my two weeks of study we can begin to have a conversation. Or at least way better than we use to. As a adult I think it would be very difficult (If not impossible) to just listen to a language and learn it.
edge! This is what i was looking for. I find that we have so much material for CI and studying, but no methods for structuring our conversations. i grew up hearing french. I can read and understand. I even speak with disconnected phrases as i have a hard time with conjugation. The advice I'm told is to "speak". That's great, but nobody provides structural guidance in how to strategize learning to speak. Yet, we have all these tools for comprehensible input like netflix, chrome extensions, linq, etc.
As with everything, it's probably a combination of things. For example, I learned English completely by watching, consuming content, and then speaking in the language. Of course it took years and countless hours so it wasn't fast by any means. I started learning Spanish and I listened to language transfer's audio course a few times which gave me good basics but what has actually helped was listening to Spanish twitch streamers. I think it's crucial to have visual input as well as listening to content, which I think you didn't mention in the video. My Spanish comprehension is at a fairly good level unless it's Andalucian. My speaking is awful because I don't really have anybody to speak to regularly. The example about trying to fill in the missing word in a sentence wasn't exactly fair because it assumed it would be the only time you would hear the missing word. It's likely that if you hear the same word in another sentence which gives more context and clues about what it might be, you'll figure out the meaning of it. But again, I do think only reading or listening is not as useful as listening and watching where you get a lot more context.
Comprehensible Input is for people who are just learning grammar without doing a language exchange or getting any prior exposure to the language they want to learn outside of school books and exercises. In my experience, Comprehensible Input is used to reinforce listening to the words, grammar, and conjugations you already know. It's done with audiobooks, series, and movies, so it's less boring than taking a course. It also helps you become familiar with the native pronunciation of the language you want to learn. It doesn't eliminate taking notes or researching grammar, but here you'll be learning the language by researching grammar as it's presented to you in what you're watching or reading, and not in a school order, which some of us find too boring or tedious to follow.
I’m brand new to learning a language, I didn’t have to take a language course in high school, I did take some in middle school but that was so long ago, I forgot most of what I was taught so I’m just speaking from personal experience here which isn’t much to go off of but I have to say context helps but like you’ve pointed out, it can only get you so far. An example I can use on context actually helping was over 10 years ago, I got into watching the series Detective Conan which was over 600 episodes at the time (over 1k now) & hearing all that Japanese within the span of 4 months helped me pick up on some stuff here & there, obviously I had English subtitles to use but like I didn’t know much. At one point when I was watching about a year after I caught up & was keeping with the show as it was airing, a moment happened where the screen froze for a second but the audio continued going so I missed the subtitles but due to knowing a few things said & generally knowing what’s happening on screen, I knew what was said like I didn’t need to rewind to catch it. If listening to something that’s pure audio without any visuals, I can see how context would be difficult to grasp if it was something very vague like the example given. It can help but isn’t good enough. I’ve been wanting to learn Spanish because there’s a lot of people in my area who speak Spanish, including my next door neighbor so I figure it would be helpful. Not too long ago, I had to wait behind someone in line at a store to do something that would take me about 5 minutes & it took her about a half hour to do her transaction with the only employee working in the store because she couldn’t speak English & he couldn’t speak Spanish, she had to get her friend on the phone to translate stuff & there was even a bit of an issue with the translating, the person translating misunderstood something the employee said & it caused them to have to redo the transaction all over again, the translator was giving the guy the person trying to buy the thing her email address & home address by spelling out every letter & number slowly because it was something they didn’t have in stock & was going to ship to her place. If I better knew what was going on in the conversation, I could of probably stepped in & help it go by faster. Actually, it’s almost normal seeing people on the phone with it on speaker as they’re in stores where I’m at, just the other day I was picking up some groceries & someone on the phone was talking on speaker with someone in Spanish that seemed like the person on the phone was helping her with some labels or something, I’m unsure. Just seems like it’d be useful for me to learn Spanish so I could better communicate if I need to. Everyone was saying that comprehensible input helps & while reading the stories on Duolingo has me feeling proud that I understood them enough, when I’m watching something in Spanish, I’m so lost without subtitles because I’m like super beginner level & if I don’t know what they’re saying, how am I supposed to learn?
Creo que tanto el estudio como el input son buenas herramientas. Estoy muy de acuerdo con la necesidad de estudiar para aprender. Con respecto al input comprensible, siento que es bueno para acostumbrarse a las formas naturales en que suena el lenguaje y cómo usar ciertas expresiones. Se puede estudiar por unos instantes y luego cambiar al input para descansar un poco del estudio.
My observation is that people that have a good grasp of how grammar works in their native language tend to do better with comprehensible input, I have seen English teachers, or young people in high school still studying grammar praising this method. For me, as an adult studying my third language it didn’t work, now that I’m studying grammar, trying to understand how my own language works, and reading short stories out loud, now I’m truly making progress. Before I memorized all these words and phrases, I was able to pick them up on tv, radio, etc but I couldn’t make my own phrases.
I think comprehensible input functions similarly to how children acquire language: by hearing a word (or reading it) and understanding its meaning through context or visuals etc. vocabulary grows and language is acquired, especially when the process is repeated in more contexts
It's good to question things. Comprehensible input is self-describing to me, and it does not require accessing a sweet spot if you put some effort into acquiring new vocabulary. Its efficacy depends on the student's effort. You are correct that we need to learn, not just passively absorb whatever comes easily. Learning can continue even in our native language, but it requires the same effort to pursue the new words that we encounter. That said, there are definitely pieces of literature, etc. that can be non-comprehensible in comparison to other works. It doesn't do a novice or intermediate level learner to read Borges or Shakespeare, for instance. Pick something accessible, even if not perfectly comprehensible without study.
I am in agreement like I think that learning a language is meant to be learned traditionally however it is not bad to listen to Spanish or listen to your target language. I think that both are necessary
I was briefly a fan of comprehensible input but my view has evolved to be close to what yours is. However, the marketing of CI from many quarters is strong and carefully crafted. In my case, the confusion stemmed frommy relatively weak listening comprehension skills when I first started the transition from a text-heavy university education to one more focused on listening/speaking. 4 months of private tutoring did wonders for restoring that balance so that following the CI principle mindlessly or even principally now seems obviously inefficient. I still like listening to "comprehensible" and diverse podcasts for enjoyment and for improving my listening skills but without any illusion that it should comprise most of my learning diet.
I appreciate the video and generally share your take on comprehensible input however you seem to be judging it based on how much is learned through input. For me, the benefit of this type of input is more to improve my listening skills. Did I learn new vocabulary? No, but it reinforces previously learned vocabulary and helps my listening ability. Thanks and keep up the good work!!
Thanks for the feedback Brad! Yes, absolutely, if you find a resource that is improving your knowledge of the sounds of Spanish as well as maintaining your vocabulary then keep it up!!
I spend the vast majority of my time drilling phrases on flash cards and make incredible progress this way.. I can learn 2500 words a month when I'm pushing it hard.. but I feel it's important to expose my self to some things I can't quite understand yet just to get used to sounds
I live in Mexico and moved here 13 years ago with no Spanish skills at all. I went to classes of different modalities ( dance , history, ecology, circus arts, Temezcals) usually there is at least one person who can explain something to you if needed. I also traveled on buses where no one speaks English. This forces comprehension because you are living it. Study per se was never fun for me but I love people and participating intuitively. I even stay with a family every once in awhile who does not speak much Spanish ( they speak an indigeousness tribal language) and we manage to laugh and have a great time. I think of necessity as a wonderful way to get more comprehension and I LOVE your videos to improve my skills in small bits. LOVE both ideas. suggest making friends who DO NOT speak your first language.
I agree 100%! You have to take the time to study by increasing your vocabulary and learning grammar. I think the people that are using "comprehensible input" have a technique that works for them but to me it seems synonymous to studying in the dark. Why make things hard for yourself when you can take one day to study basic things like the alphabet and numbers 1-10.
I also am someone who never had Spanish in school . I had 4 years of French and can't remember much of anything because I never used it . Playing baseball and living in Hartford Connecticut in the south end for three years I learned more Spanish in the years 18-21 but unfortunately as for learning Spanish I moved to Vermont where I didn't hear anyone speak Spanish and when I bought a home in mass where there are a lot of Spanish speaking people my home is in the woods in a small town so living in a city or urban area gives someone a better opportunity . However with all the apps on line now there is no excuse if you're motivated . That said when I had about 3 years studying and using apps I found I could read decent and actually speak ok although I make a lot of errors . But you have to speak and not be afraid to make mistakes to improve. The hardest thing for myself as most people I hear is understanding native speakers . So I started listening to music in Spanish and watching shows . However I found it difficult to watch a movie or show I didn't have any idea about. So then I stepped back and watched " los tres cerditos" the three little pigs and understood a lot more because I knew what the story was about however I still struggled even with a kids story. But it takes time . Maybe there's some polyglot geniuses, however I think any app or person that says you can learn Spanish in 3, 6 , or 9 months is not being honest . It takes years learning a second language well. Less time if immersed in the language by living somewhere that English is rarely used . Subtitles also help however I suggest using subtitles in the language your learning vs English if that's your native language . I never had any formal classes and am no teacher but only saying what is helping me to be at a b2 level without school nor paying a dime to tutors . There's exchanges and plenty of resources . If you can afford one on one with a tutor I would imagine it's worth it and helps . Even better is a friend that is fluent in the language so you feel comfortable . And it helps a bit if the person can speak your native language to explain some things your really frustrated and struggling with. Good luck . Never quit and spend an hour a day or more every day and we all can learn Ingles and español with time practice and pacience . Don't be frustrated if after a year You still arent at intermediate level. Everyone learns at different rate and there is no certain time to be fluent as at 56 i'm still learning words in My native language .
We learn when we understand messages. Where input is not comprehensible it can be made comprehensible. By context, an attached translation, repeating something, pictures, a video. Extensive reading posits an understanding of at least 98%, preferably 99%. This allows for a speed of reading and absorption of new vocab. One also learns grammar by implicit exposure. In any case, a reader will acquire new vocab and good grammar. The key is to identify available comprehensible input. That is a separate challenge.
I find this a very good summary of the topic. I personally find the best "comprehensive" practice is to read/listen to things that I am already familiar with in my own language. E.g. look at series that I have seen already, reread books in my target language and so on.
My experience (very limited) is reading beginning Spanish stories. I have redid some stories where there were many words that I didn’t recall. Many of those words I could understand from context. Actually when I read English I understand what I’m reading by context, so it’s not much different. Thank you for your Videos!!!
¡Que interesante es este video! Es genial escuchar a alguien haciendo un argumento considerado contra la sabiduría común del Internet. Me disculpe mi español débil, pero intentaré hacer estos comentarios en español. He llevado cinco años estudiando español por mi cuenta, y mi modo primario de aprendizaje ha sido leer libros y escuchar podcasts, es decir, input comprensible. En general, estoy muy contento con mi habilidad de leer y también de escuchar cosas como las noticias o los podcasts para nativos. Sin embargo, mi habilidad de entender conversaciones en la calle es mucho peor, y mi habilidad de hablar es casi cero. La razón de esta situación es que no practico con frecuencia las conversaciones y cada una de estas habilidades necesita una práctica específica: el input comprensible no es suficiente por sí mismo. En eso estamos de acuerdo. Pero creo que tú subestimas el valor de input comprensible para aprender vocabulario y gramática. Como dice el políglota, Steve Kaufmann, muchas, si no la mayoría, de las palabras que se aprenden, se olvidan y luego se aprende otra vez. Esta es también mi experiencia. Leer es la manera más natural, y para mi la más placente, para recordarme el significado de las palabras que he olvidado en un contexto memorable. Gracias otra vez por este video geniál.
Totally in agreement. Study is they key to understanding Spain. You miss under the verbs if you don't understand what content they are in, so you don't get the sense of what's been said. It's the first time someone agrees with my thoughts. Thank you
I think that input (in a language one is learning) that one fully understands and also enjoys and/or finds informative can help with motivation. And perhaps fluency. Also, there's the issue of different speakers, different accents, and different speaking speeds.
CI just means that your input should be at a level where you understand most of it but that a manageable part of it is challenging. Then the part you don't understand in the input is the bit you need to find out the meaning of, using any way or method available. What makes it CI, though, is that the rest of the input is comprehensible. In other words that the difficulty is at a level that is manageable for you. That's all that CI means. There's no big mystery. If you want a definition of CI then it's "ensure that your input is at a level such that most of it is comprehensible, but that a manageable part of it is just beyond your current knowledge so that you can learn something new" Where manageable is the key. There's no suggestion that anything magical happens or any kind of synergy takes place just by taking in something slightly incomprehensible. The comprehension gap always needs to be bridged. If you have a teacher they might draw pictures or show photos or use mime in order to encourage you to work it out yourself, but that's just a choice; just one way of doing things. They could equally just tell you the answer; or if you are learning by yourself then look it up or whatever. In other words your preferred 'solution' which you give at the end is pretty much what CI is in the first place.
I agree with you. The only "instant" comprehension I ever had was with cognates....which was like reconizable words from the get go. and the learn a language from reading tons of books method requires studying the same as if one was working with an excyclopedia.
Guessing from context works much better than I would have expected, plus there are a lot of cognates. But even if not, I suspect the exposure can help me remember the word's sound (whenI do learn it) and possibly some semantic association with surrounding words. I have definitely looked up words hours later from memory, usually if they were repeated several times and I couldn't pause to research while listening. Context is also much more useful for barely remembered words, and ones I tend to confuse. Most of all, listening to interesting content of which I understand 80 to 90 percent is way more enjoyable than anything that could reasonably be called studying, and is available a much larger fraction of the day. Even barely understanding half, most of the sentence structure might be clear, including parts of speech for many unknown words or phrases. So I agree that learning meanings is important, but it doesn't necessarily have to come first, and the motivational aspect, especially for adult learners, of just reading or listening is hard to overstate. I agree that as a "scientific" concept, the term needs a definition, but as a rule of thumb that has helped me more than 5 years of Spanish classes, I'd say you're being too picky.
I think what you said about having to study a language to improve it applies more so in the context of not being in an environment where the language is spoken (which is the case for most people learning a foreign language). I do believe, though, that you can dramatically improve your speaking skills with limited "study" if you're fully immersed in the language...but I think you'd need to have an outgoing, sociable personality with no fear of making mistakes to pull it off. These people do seem to be the minority though, and very few people have the luxury to just drop everything and do a true immersion....so yeah, I agree that what you said applies for the vast majority of language learners. Very insightful video!
Thanks for the feedback Chris! I know both Steve and Olly and have worked with them in the past, I'm sure both would be happy to have a discussion. But, I'm not sure if I want to go further with this topic, it's really divisive. And it seems that people have made up their mind one way or the other and I'm not sure if more content would result in a productive outcome.
Excellent video. I agree with your summary of CI’s value-or lack thereof-as a learning tool. I do want to revisit and emphasize one point you made about ways to learn language, and that is through practicing pronunciation. In my experience as a Spanish teacher, this is crucial. When learners pronounce words correctly, they get a double reinforcement of language acquisition-not only are they speaking it correctly, but they are hearing it, too. It’s a two-for-one payback. I spend a lot of time working on proper pronunciation and ensuring student learn to pronounce every new word they learn. The benefits have been demonstrated in my students’ remarkably improved proficiency in all modes. Thank you for this video!
Krashen defines it perfectly in his main video descibing it. So it is explained. Just not by the current crop of RUclipsrs. But that video is out there all over the place. All you have to do it watch it.
I agree with you. How is any progress made when you are befuddled with language you do not understand. I would also add, I can not count how so many 'instructors' seem to think a student is capable of understanding anything when they are speaking at a fluency speed.A student needs to crawl before they walk, walk before they run. I have been through alot of schooling and I am always amused with most instructors. Oh that is fantastic you know so much about this subject. Unfortunately , YOUR JOB is to facilitate the learning of this subject to those who are only learning. Lastly, and this is going to actually contradict what I just said, reading has been my salvation..I have been studying now for 4 years and finally, it has been regular reading which has really helped confirm the grammer I have learned. Going through textbooks and laying down the grammer and preliminary vocabulary is fine but it all seemed quite separate from a contihous thing. Use of the language. SO by reading, the many facets seem to have congealed if you will. It's like frankenstien has finally come alive. Thank you for your valuable training. Your work has been invaluable to me.
it seems you answered your own question- if we can’t intuit or deduce the chunks of meaning we are missing from a given piece of content, then it’s not yet comprehensible, is it? comprehensible input is either where we are already know or are able to intuit or deduce all or almost all of the chunks of meaning we don’t already know, or is material that we MAKE comprehensible through other additional means (like using repeated viewings, using captioning or subtitles, pausing playback as needed to think it through, doing vocab or grammar lookups, explicit study, making flashcards, sentence mining, using plot summaries or translations, adding context to written through pictures/video, etc.). if we can’t understand the underlying meaning of the content, or don’t do something to make it so that we understand the underlying meaning of the content, it just ain’t, by definition, comprehensible input. yanno?
I don't know how language RUclips is using "comprehensible input," but the term originally comes from language theorist Stephen Krashen who studied second language acquisition. One of his ideas was that we learn language when we receive language input that is one step above what we are capable of, or put another way, language you can understand but can't produce yourself. That's what n+1 refers to, n being the language you can produce. We all understand more than we are able to produce, whether in our first language or in languages we learn later in life. That's the sweet spot where language learning takes place. Input that is comprehensible but not producible (for now). I studied this concept in grad school courses for teaching English language learners. The point there was that as the teacher, you need to supply your students with English input that is comprehensible, that is something they can understand but that they wouldn't be able to produce independently. You can make content more comprehensible by explicitly teaching important vocabulary or grammar constructions that they'll encounter in a text, by incorporating visuals and gestures, and by using meaning negotiation tactics. But, if the text is too easy for them, if they're only seeing vocabulary and constructions they can already produce, they're not learning anything. So, by this theory and consistent with what you said in the video, listening to a podcast would do you no good unless you were able to understand something like 95% of what's going on and to fill in the rest through context. And listening to language that's too easy, that you already know and can produce on your own also does you no good. You need language you can understand but not yet produce independently. Studying helps you scoot that comprehensible input zone further and further forward as you learn more vocabulary and grammar constructions.
Thanks for a thought-provoking analysis! My first thought is that if something is comprehensible to me, it doesn't necessarily mean that I understand it, but that it is possible for me to understand it. So I would see 'comprehensible input' as language that I could reasonably be expected to understand in an overall sense, even if I didn't know all of the words. I see what you are saying with the sentence about casseroles on the floor, so wouldn't comprehensible input need to ensure that the vocabulary or grammar likely to be unknown could be inferred from context? I'm very dubious of the idea of being able to 'acquire' a language by using comprehensible input, but I do think it has value in one important area - becoming accustomed to the sounds and rhythms of a language. I've lived in Spain for almost 20 years, and haven't formally studied the language to a great extent, but I have reached a level of near-bilingual fluency by a combination of listening/reading and investigating words and structures that I didn't understand. Being surrounded by people speaking Spanish helped me to tune in to how the language sounds, and coupled with the rules of pronunciation that I knew, I was able to identify words even if I didn't know what they meant. I could then look them up later, and I had a relevant context for them that helped me to retain, and later retrieve, them. I know not all learners are proactive or independent, and perhaps for them comprehensible input could be a distraction. One thing I've realised over the years is that I am very lucky in that I seem to have a natural ability with languages (I'm pretty rubbish at a lot of other things, though!!) and an innate desire to learn and grow. My language-learning experience may therefore be far from typical. Overall, my view would be that comprehensible input is one of a range of tools available, and one that isn't necessarily going to suit all language learners. I wouldn't dismiss it, but I would say that it is most effective for learners who are very proactive in their approach and when used alongside study of other aspects of the language such as grammar and vocabulary. As a stand-alone language-learning strategy, I think it would have limited success. By the way, I'm not a linguistics expert or trained language instructor; these are just thoughts based on my experience of learning Spanish.
I think “comprehensible input” is a helpful heuristic to decide what material might be best to study. For instance, I’m not going to try and read “Cien Años de Soledad” because it would be mostly incomprehensible (and thus frustrating). However, a book like “Cajas de carton” or a graphic novel like “Dora” is understandable (with gaps) and positively reinforces my learning. In my mind, “comprehensible input” is a decison tool not a language learning method in and of itself.
Thanks for sharing TW! 😊 This is a very reasonable position, and I fully agree with the approach. I don't think everyone uses this logic when talking about comprehensible input. But, it is a very sensible viewpoint!!
I think you are spot on. However, I would define Comprehensible input / output as practicing your language skills much like a football or baseball player would practice to improve their skills. Although a baseball player can hit, throw and catch a ball it's done at different levels and I think this is the same with languages. There are some things that I understand in Spanish with no problem however, there are other things I can understand but it's really difficult for me to "keep up" with the conversation. Although it's "comprehensible input" I still need to practice before it's a natural translation in my mind. I think that is the "sweet spot" of language learning. I think we need to find a term for that area of language learning.
My first contact with the spanish language was when I was a lil boy, a mexican comic-mouse, which often said this: Andale, andaleeee y arriba y arriba y arribaaa y viva mexicoooo ! I loved this mouse and thus his language. No one explained to me what it means, but I found out by deduction from french, my mother's language and german, my father's language. Andale, andale was very similar to the french expression allez, allez. Three times arriba reminded me the german dreimal hoch or hoch, hoch, hoch ! And viva mexico was similar to Vive la France ! So my presumption is that lil kids learn languages more by deductible comprehension or let's say deductible input. Duolingo uses that method too, but combined with explanations and that works really well... 😅
Is it "comprehensible input" to watch a movie in Spanish, that I've seen in English? I found this helpful when I was learning Ukrainian - not so much for vocabulary (I studied that with flash cards) but for getting a feel of how the words are used.
I think that you have it spot on. The "sweet spot" for me, means that I remember or relearn something that I once knew. However, it does help me to practice the language structure, syntax, flow and a particular dialect that I want to speak in. Would that then be considered CI?
Thanks for sharing! The main thesis of my video is that I'm not exactly sure what CI is so it's hard to analyse and put into practice. I've heard lots of people talk about it differently. For me, if your knowledge of the language is improving, that's all that matters, and I think any method can get you there.
I have just begun teaching myself Spanish. I'm very old, but what the heck. Instead of trying to figure out the theoretical value of Comprehensible Language, I am trying to figure out how it can be of value to my process. I found a RUclips video of someone who just prattles away, but, here's the good thing, her vocabulary is somewhat controlled. It's not like listening to a Greek minister. [Thanks for the living metaphor.] Plus, she uses gestures, pictures, and props. Moreover, since it's in RUclips subtitles are available in either SPANISH or ENGLISH! Making the leap from "direct instruction" to listening to a native is difficult. This may be a useful crutch.
I hear so much theory as I am constantly attempting to learn how to learn Spanish as much as I am trying to learn Spanish. All of it leaves me with the question “ok what do I actually do”? I have only been studying for 5 months but I study several hours a day and am absolutely driven to learn… I’m just sort of one of those people who when the switch is flipped I come out as if in a horse race. So I scratch and claw every day trying to learn from numerous sources and study grammar and phrases but at the end of most every day I am left completely frustrated wondering how much did I actually learn today. The process seems Tedious and slow… I keep looking for this comprehensible method that would work best and improve the speed at which I’m learning. I found a native speaker and now friend who wants to help but his English is much better so most all the time we speak English because I can’t speak enough to carry on a decent conversation….again beyond frustrated wondering if in the end this is just too difficult for me to manage…I know it takes a long time to learn a language but at this rate maybe in two years I can order a number 3 meal at Taco Bell from a kid named Larry who only knows English… So I hear a lot about ideas but little about a practical plan. I would like to hear “what”people have done to make input comprehensible to learn at a rate that feels valuable. I would welcome your thoughts. Thank you… forgive my frustration. Scott
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Is comprehensible input the secret to language learning? Or is it a distraction? What is your opinion?
I think your last two questions sum it up. We will need to reflect on whether or not it has helped us to improve. I agree with your assessment.
Thanks for the feedback Yves!! 🙏
Choose material that is at your level plus a bit. That way you reinforce what you know and can attempt to second guess the remainder. Then, as you say, interrogate the remainder and try to add them to your knowledge base.
This is why personally I favour a 85/15 or better still 90/10 ratio. If you attempt anything harder than that you disillusion yourself and your enthusiasm to continue learning wains……
Thanks Mark! Practically speaking, I don't think I would know how to find materials that sit precisely at a 90/10 ratio for me, do you find that easy to do?
@@realfastspanish
No you can’t be sure except by having a peruse. That’s not difficult, it’s a yes or no to being suitable. If not ditch rápido and try something different….
I absolutely agree. From my own experience, every time I've tried listening to a movie or something in spanish that involved words I did not know, it didn't matter how many times I listened to it... I didn't understand what is being said because I haven't studied and learned that new vocabulary yet. I am now going on 4 months of rigorous study and I can tell you I'm starting to understand what's being spoken a lot easier because the input I am listening to has been from vocabulary I've studied and listened to and spoken in sentences many times over. And the more new vocabulary I continue to learn, the better I become at understanding spanish sentences that are being spoken. While I have observed how far I've come in my spanish studies and my ability to speak and understand the spoken language, I realize now that I shouldn't have been so frustrated earlier in my early stages of learning- even just one month ago. Because at the time, I was feeling like I was still not where I wanted to be when it came to being able to speak and form spanish sentences in the way i wish to express myself and I was still having a hard time understanding the spanish language being spoken to me in general. But I see now that our ability to understand is based on how much of the spanish language/vocabulary we study. Just a month later, it's like my brain flipped a switch. I've made tremendous progress and it's understanding so much of what is being said to me in spanish so much easier. Learning a language takes time because you literally have to learn a completely new arsenal of words that are spelled differently, sound differently, and sometimes are structured in sentences differently. The more you study, and make sure to practice hearing and speaking those words in sentences, your brain will make the switch! It's going to happen. I've realized that!
Thanks for sharing Kathleen, it sounds like you've made some wonderful progress (and 4 month is not a lot of time), so keep it up 💪
This gives me hope, I study portuguese and i can speak, read and write at a good level but listening I still feel like a complete beginner. I have started writing dialogues for my teacher so that she can record her voice for me and because I know what is being said in her recordings the words and sentences are becoming familiar to me..
I'm going through that now.
I love this! Thank you for the encouragement!
Enable close caption in Spanish.
I can actually answer a lot your questions and doubts about comprehensible input!
Firstly, what does "comprehensible input" mean exactly?
Well to start by stating the obvious, it is _input_ that is _comprehensible_ . That is, language that you hear or read, rather than produce, and that you understand the meaning of.
But like you said, a native English speaker watching your video is receiving input that is comprehensible and they're not learning anything. That's because there is an extra key piece that turns something from simply _input that is comprehensible_ into _comprehensible input_ that will help them improve. That is this:
*You can **_comprehend_** input without necessarily understanding all of the words/grammar used.*
This is THE MOST VITAL PART OF COMPREHENSIBLE INPUT, and yet it often goes unmentioned. It forms the basis of CI theory, which is that if you _understand_ input, but without fully understanding the words/grammar that was used to express it, you begin to learn (subconsciously, it should be mentioned) what that vocabulary/grammar means.
So a precise definition of comprehensible input might be: "Input of which the meaning is understood, but of which the language used to express that meaning is not fully understood"
_(Note: "Comprehensible input" is normally used to refer not only to this type of input, but rather input that is at the correct level of comprehensibility such that it contains this type of input. "2 hours of comprehensible input" means 2 hours of input where sometimes I understood the meaning and not the language, but including the parts where I understood both or neither.)_
This then answers your second question: How comprehensible should the input be?
It should maximise the amount of input where you understand the meaning without understanding the language.
So with a podcast, you'll need to listen to much easier language so that the language you don't understand has enough context for you to infer the meaning, whereas if you're watching Dreaming Spanish, or even better doing crosstalk, then the language can be much more complex because there are lots of other cues you can use to work out the meaning without knowing the language. Generally this will mean somewhere between 80% and 100% comprehensible. The larger the gap between the amount of meaning you comprehend and the amount of language you understand, the more language you will learn, which is why input with visual cues is so good.
By this point I've already fully answered your 3rd question: If you understand the comprehensible parts of the input already, and you can't understand what the incomprehensible parts of the input mean, then how are you meant to learn anything from input?
The answer is that you can in fact learn from the parts that you can comprehend, _presuming_ you don't fully understand the language used.
To finish off I'd like to share my personal experience of switching to using purely CI to learn Spanish, which was so unbelievably successful to the point where I'm risking the credibility of my opinion by sharing it, but I'm going to anyway.
Having learnt a very basic level of Spanish from secondary school and a bit of Duolingo, I found CI and promptly stopped listening in lessons and stopped Duolingo (tbph I stopped that a long time before). I started Dreaming Spanish and initially I had to watch his beginner videos or easy intermediate videos in order to comprehend them. The advanced ones were completely incomprehensible. After only 17 total hours of watching Dreaming Spanish (and a bit of other CI) spread out over a very long time, I can understand almost all of the advanced level videos! I have progressed from A2 to upper-B1 proficiency (European levels). The amount I improved was supposed to take 450 hours of input according to DS.
Obviously my experience is extremely anomalous and calls into question the accuracy of my measurements, but even by my most conservative estimates, I've experienced an extremely fast rate of improvement using purely CI. At the very least, pure input has allowed me to improve significantly, learning new vocab and grammar, which contradicts your claims.
I also used purely CI to learn a very low level of Vietnamese, which took a lot longer but the comprehensibility of the input was abysmally low since there are very few resources and no cognates. However I did indeed manage to learn some Vietnamese with no study WHATSOEVER.
Sorry for such a long comment, I wanted to be thorough. I love the phrase you said about having "strong opinions, held lightly" and I will be stealing that frequently for the rest of my life, so thanks for that. It applies to my opinions here too. Please let me know if you have any disagreements. I feel like I quite definitively answered every doubt you expressed, so I really hope I managed to change your mind.
I have studied Spanish over 20 years both in the classroom and by myself. It appears to me it does on good to study things you don't understand. The progress comes when you continue to study what you do understand and then add to that as you go. It may take years before you grasp the whole language. But you can't advance what you are doing unless you understand what you are doing. Thank you
comprehensible input is a scam because its not comprehensible unless you look up the words and understand the grammer. do you know what acabo de darme cuenta means? Because thats taught in a beginner class (at least where i went to spanish grammer school). There is no way, i would ever , understand that frase, without having a teacher explain it to me. no amount of CI can do that.
@@AdamH-n3l acabo de darme cuenta or me di cuenta, shouldn't have been used in a beginner class. They have a grammar level at B1 - B2. No wonder you didn't understand them as a beginner. Try Dreaming Spanish for 100 hours and see if you still think CI is a scam.
Excellent!! I am a 70 year old retired man who has studied Spanish for 5 years! This was a great explanation. Very helpful!!
In my experience, the quality of the input matters greatly. After struggling with traditional methods for years, I found that watching content that was 90% or more comprehensible was the fastest way for me to learn. It is not very helpful when I watch Spanish-language news clips or random Spanish-language TV content, but when I match the content to my level I see tremendous results. In particular, I found that the "Superbeginner" and "Beginner" videos on the Dreaming Spanish RUclips channel to be enormously helpful. They are entertaining and I have learned a significant amount of vocabulary and grammar simply from watching them. The Buene Gente web series on the Spanish Playground channel is also a great input resource. When I compare the words I have learned via comprehensible input versus those I have learned using Anki flashcards, my retention from the comprehensible input videos is noticeably better. After trying traditional techniques and failing, the comprehensible input technique is the one that works best for me.
Thanks for sharing Michael! I personally haven't had that experience but it's an interesting discussion. Usually, when I can understand 90% or more of what I'm listening to, there isn't a lot of new learning happening because I already understand 90%, which means it's mostly maintenance.
Retention for a rare word through CI is never going to be as high as through a SRS like Anki. You just won’t see it often enough.
On the other hand, a top 100 frequency word will have no need to be in Anki because you will be seeing it all the time.
As a Super beginner Listening to my target language by playing music or listening to an audio book with ZERO comprehension really works for me. I totally agree that it does not improve my Spanish so studying is a Critical part of the process but when I listen to Spanish it calms my mind and prevents it from the frustration of trying to translate. I listen for sounds, rhythm and dialect which are things you can’t pick it in a book. I wouldn’t recommend doing what you did by listening to incomprehensibly language in the car on my way to work because it would be too distracting. I listen when I’m taking a walk or relaxing. To me this feels like poetry. You don’t have to comprehend music or art or the words of Shakespeare in order to feel a connection. I am learning Spanish to not only speak the language but to connect with people, culture and have meaningful experiences
I am a French teacher and I have learned several other languages. I use comprehensible input, but the way I make things comprehensible to my language learners is to provide a translation in English. Everything is bilingual. Comprehensible input has been closely associated with the Natural Approach, which only uses the target language. I have taught using only the target language but I find that you make some gesture or use a drawing to show the meaning of something and you waste a lot of time playing charades and the students only have a vague idea at best of what you are trying to say, and they guess the meaning in English. And you could have just given them the meaning in English in 2 seconds.
But I think comprehensible input is a valuable way to learn a language. But I am not a purist and I also believe that interaction in the target language is essential. You can't learn to speak without ever speaking. Language is communication. Listening and reading are great but at some point, you need to use the language in real communication. But complete beginners are unable to do this, unless they use Google Translate or something. Many teachers use only grammar and output based teaching. I strongly disagree with this approach because the students do not develop sufficient listening or reading skills. They go to the country and cannot understand a word after studying the language for years. I do teach vocabulary and verb conjugations through translation and the vocabulary is in sentences, providing some inductive grammar acquisition.
For more advanced learners, a target language only class works well. A lot of people confuse comprehensible input with the direct method of target language use only. I apply comprehensible input principles but use translation as a means of making things comprehensible. It works fine for beginning learners. For intermediate or advanced learners who are at a B1 level or higher, you can use target language for instruction if you speak slowly and use a drawing or gesture to show the meaning. But for beginners and novices, I find translation is very helpful. I do language exchanges and online lessons in Spanish using target language only. It was rough at the start because I was only at an A2 level. Now at a B1 level and it is ok. When you are forced to interact in the language one-on-one, you make great progress. I make mistakes all the time but I can communicate and get my point across and understand Spanish. But the native speakers are probably changing their speech a little so I understand. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing Ron!! Yes, this is really interesting. As I mentioned in video, I think a lot of people would say that comprehensible input is about using drawings and charades to avoid using translation to another language. And I find it so interesting that teachers describe the process so differently. By your definition, I think everything I'm doing on this channel is comprehensible input because I usually give an English sentence and then a Spanish sentence. But, others would say that it's not.
I was a French Immersion teacher for many years and what you have described was exactly my experience. You quickly get to a point where you can't use pictures or act out scenarios. The student has to learn to use bilingual dictionaries.
Thank you for this video, you’ve stimulated my thinking.
I don’t teach language, but my specialties are in education technology, learning, and development.
The reason “comprehensible input” is not well defined is because what is considered comprehensible is different for each individual as they approach the topic.
Borrowing from Adult Learning Theory each person will be driven to learn because they have a reason to learn. Once that reason to learn is established they will look for how to acquire the knowledge.
What is comprehensible is determined by life experience, level of literacy in one’s primary language, and one’s ability to think abstractly about those topics.
The i+1 is an idea that comes from the idea of scaffolding. The 1 is very subjective and will be different from topic to topic. For example I’m an IT person, so learning new technology words will be more about vocabulary than comprehension once I’ve achieved enough Spanish. However I know almost nothing about cooking, so would have to learn cooking concepts at the same time.
From an educators perspective, particularly in asynchronous learning (like learning from a video), you have to figure out what the common contexts are for most people viewing. I don’t have to teach you what a cow is, I just have to give you a word for it. I can simply show you a picture of a cow, write vaca underneath it, and have a vocalization for vaca.
However, something abstract like “to want” would require some nouns like Yo, juga, carne, or ropa so that you can use the noun as i with +1 being quiero. Yo quiero juga. Because second language learners have a concept of verbs they don’t have to learn what a verb is.
To sum up my thoughts: Adults need a reason to learn, goals for those reasons, an established level of comprehensibility, and flexible +1 based on their own broader context.
From what I've experienced regarding comprehensible input, it seems to mean learning a language the way a child learns a language - by interacting with language speakers who are trying to teach the language (like a parent teaching their child). It requires more than listening - it requires interacting with the person trying to teach the language naturally (again, the way a parent teaches a child). Check out Spanish Comprehensible Input | Online Learning; Spanish comprehensible input full course; Spanish After Hours if you haven't already. As always, thanks for your videos - they help a lot.
Thanks for sharing Jim!! Being forced to interact the way a child does definitely helps solve the motivation and distraction problem that we have to face as adults with lots of other commitments. 😊
They really require very specialized content. Even most children’s books will be far beyond the beginner. Yet the promise that is often sold is you just listen and watch or read native content for your target language. That doesn’t work because you don’t understand it.
The Rosetta Stone was an important point in learning ancient Egyptian. We had Egyptian hieroglyphs all over the place. But no one could read them until the Rosetta Stone was found that had the same text in multiple languages. Then they could start to decipher it. And it was still a slow process.
With modern language you have to have someone or something teach you the basics enough to figure it out. You can have a guy point to a picture in a class, a picture in a book or app, or a CI video drawing and showing a picture of a girl, either way, it is the same.
Also, the CI crowd says you will instinctively learn grammar because of input. Yet you needed how many years of grammar in school for your primary language? You will be able to instantly know what is right and wrong because it doesn’t sound right? What if the materials don’t follow correct grammar? Many conversations, song lyrics, etc don’t follow proper grammar. I know native Spanish speakers that moved to the US and went to English speaking schools but spoke Spanish at home. They still struggle with the grammar because they never had grammar.
Agree 100%. Children make loads of grammar mistakes when they learn a language. But we get corrected by those around us over time. I think there's a strong distortion of reality by the more extreme CI/immersion crowd who insist you mainly just need to listen/watch people speaking a language for a few thousand hours.
But it's not how children learn learn their native language at all. We learn through 100% spoken interaction with family and those around us. We don't sit just listening for a couple of years and then suddenly speak whole sentences! Listening/watching TV shows etc is what we do *after* we've learnt some words, with increasing complexity as we develop.
Hi ANDREW BARR at Real Fast Spanish, this was a really interesting video, as a distance learner and self taught student of Spanish- for the last 15 years or so.
I’ve tried out many different strategies, an occasional live class with other students ( not really my thing..I tended to compre myself to other students too much), online courses, CD courses, Intercambios, immersion courses in Spain, podcasts, RUclips channels etc etc.
So I am intrigued by this ‘comprehensible input’ idea.
I’ve heard it defined as content that you understand 85% of.
Now over the years it has occurred to me that, obviously we all learn at our own individual pace and that it’s pointless trying to compare your progress with someone else’s and that different strategies work for different people…there is no ‘one size strategy that fits all’
What I have found works FOR ME these days and is really helping my Spanish improve are things like:-
* Everyday 25 mins of reading books in spanish that I’ve read and enjoyed in English..and what I do is have the both books in front of me - I read a few chapters in English and then I read the same chapters straightafter in Spanish, noting any curious sentence constructions, or unusual grammar or unfamiliar words that keep reoccurring
* I do the same with Netflix films and series, although here it doesn’t matter that I don’t know the plot beforehand, so what I do here I watch the 15 mins of film/series first of all in English but with Spanish subtitles, then I watch the same 15 minutes but this time in Spanish with Spanish subtitles
* During the week I watch a several RUclips videos and listen to several podcast where I am REALLY interested in the subject matter
* Once a week I have a one hour italki lesson purely in Spanish where the teacher sets tasks for me, like watching un corto o lo que sea and we discuss those during the lesson. The teacher points out any mistakes or misunderstandings and writes down and texts me words and phrases that are new to me..and often sets up improvised rôle plays with me and the teacher to see how well I have learned the new material
* I record this lesson and before the next week I go over it again noting my my errors in pronunciation and grammar and any misunderstandings
* I have a few Spanish friends where I live in England that I help with their English if necessary but most of the time we just chat in Spanish every few weeks
* I make sure I have AT THE VERY LEAST 1 hour of of connection with the Spanish language EVERY DAY
Hope this wasn’t too long winded, but this IS WHAT WORKS FOR ME..and I have be using the above strategies over the last year and I truly believe that mi comprensión auditiva, mi comprensión lectura, mi habilidad de expresarme con claridad y pronunciación ha mejorado 100% por el menos en mi modesta opinión
I hope this might be useful to you as a Spanish teacher and anyone else as a student of Spanish to hear of my personal Spanish learning journey.
Thanks for sharing Peter! Yes, this is great, it sounds like you have a process that is working for you. I quite like your approach to review recorded sessions of yourself to correct errors in pronunciation, grammar and misunderstandings. I think this is an incredibly powerful strategy!
Whom I help with their english if necessary...
@@janeflannery8757 ”that I help with their English” is not incorrect, and both are correct methods of saying the same thing.
Kudos for speaking up. It does not matter whether people agree or not. You have taken the time to put a comprehensive argument together, which is also not something most people do.
Hi! Very interesting video! I used to work in a lab doing work on speech technologies. For machines to understand human language they receive spoken text with transcriptions and develop an acoustic model of the language as well as modelling which sounds are associated with what text. Think of the acoustic model as being a collection of the language's phonemes and a model of how likely they are to occur in every possible combination. So when learning languages I tried doing this to myself to build my own acoustic model of Spanish. At home the radio would be tuned almost all the time to Spanish radio stations playing speech without trying to focus on it or understand it. At first it sounds like a load of high speed gibberish, and then something changed in my brain after a week or so, and it no longer sounded like random syllables, it sounded like a stream of words and it seemed to slow down, and I started to pick up words I'd learned, and after a few months, I was listening to radio phone in shows and understanding a lot of what they were saying, and starting to get a lot of my news from Spanish radio.
Is this a sensible way to learn a language on its own? Obviously not, but in tandem with other study it helps get used to the sound of the language and be less fearful of hearing it at natural speed. And the thing is it might be helpful and if you already have an internet connection it costs effectively nothing. I don't know if what I describe counts for the CI aficionados but I found it helpful.
It is definitely important to get a lot of input. If you only study the grammar you won’t be able to understand someone when you talk to them. I went through a basic grammar book to start off and then based my entire learning off of listening to music, watching shows and reading books. It’s easy if you watch or read material meant for children or that you have already consumed in English and then work your way up as you get more comfortable.
Thanks for sharing Jared! I agree input is important in the process :)
In terms of CI in reading, I remember my linguistics teacher said if you open a book (I think in this case he meant printed books for advanced learners or native speakers) and find more than 5 new words on the first page, then this book might be too difficult for you. You might not enjoy the book as much because you might be struggling to understand it.
In teaching, some teachers would use sign language, real objects, or pictures while talking to the students in class. I personally found it very helpful as a student.
Excellent comments-ultimately one has to learn something and be able to put it to use-your comments and observations are very accurate!!!!*gracias
Thank you for this video - very helpful. I do deliberately have 20 mins or so of incomprehensible input each day for one simple reason: I find Spanish speakers very fast, so incomprehensible input actually helps me to get to grips with the cadence and rhythm of the language. I begin to discern individual words and a feel for how it is spoken. I, of course, prioritise 90mins or so each day of comprehensible input and structured learning. But I do find that both inputs are useful. Peace, Steve 🙏
Great video and great discussion!! I am a native English speaker , I also speak German quite fluently I learned it quite rapidly as young man, simply by taking notes, studying them and speaking with native Germans every chance I got which was often because I lived in Germany as young Canadian soldier. And This is where I would agree with you on the "comprehensible input theory" and my doubts with it. I have been studying Spanish with great discipline for the last four years, following many Spanish tutors on RUclips, and listening to Spanish podcasts and Netflix almost everyday for the past three years. However not living in a Spanish speaking country or being able to speak Spanish with natives everyday puts me at a great disadvantage in comparison with how I learned German. I have fervently immersed myself in the "comprehensible input theory" the last couple years In Spanish and I have to say in general, I find it ineffective for the most part. My opinion is this, when learning a language , start speaking and practicing your target language by speaking it at every opportunity, as soon as possible. It's how our brain works by hearing ourselves talk, it engrains it into our memory. There is no greater reward then having an actual conversation with a native speaker of your target language and walking away knowing the person understood you, and you understood them. It is an incredible confidence booster, and you simply cannot get this kind of confidence through comprehensible input ;)
Thanks for sharing Tom 😊 Yes, I agree, speaking practice can really help with confidence. And I love your summary that what worked for you was taking notes, studying them and then practising them every chance you got!!!
Like Tom, I learned German as a young man (28 yrs old) by living in Germany for two years (and taking German lessons while there). I became rather fluent. Now I am trying to learn Spanish living in the US. It's not that it's harder, it's just that it takes a long time. There is nothing that compares to living in the country that speaks the target language, so that you are forced to learn in order to communicate. If my life circumstances were different, I would try to spend two years in Costa Rica.
From my experience, listening to complex Spanish input helps me because I already a lot of the words I am hearing, I am just not recognizing them a lot of the time. But I’ve noticed that the more I listen to Spanish, the more words I can understand because I already know them, it’s just hard to understand them when the words are put together and spoken quickly.
CI has helped me better understand the frequency, usage, and different senses of Spanish words. For example, like in any language common verbs have multiple senses that are not necessary related, 'dejar', 'llevar' etc. CI especially helps here, almost unconsciously I find myself selecting the best sense in context and discovering new senses. Whereas flashcards can freeze a single sense in your mind and obstruct the semantic flexibility you need to understand sentences. But some things I find problematic with CI: mixing CI from Mexico and Spain (and other countries of course) can lead you to think there are semantic differences where there are none - e.g., ordenador, computadora; also if you watch videos with translated captions the translations often lead you astray, you look for word correspondences that often aren't there - the translator used their freedom to come up with a different way to express something - i.e., often translations aren't vocabulary senses but quite different conceptualizations, which can confuse learning. Though the major thing I think CI gets right is you need to enjoy your involvement with the language! Unfortunately, lots of folks are turned off by grammar - and have a poor understanding of it even in their native tongue. All that said I personally have enjoyed and found useful both your videos and more CI-type content like Dreaming Spanish, Easy Languages, Extras, Destinos, etc.
Thanks Christopher. What is the different between CI and just using any general input as a study tool? My central question with this video is the term "comprehensible". I think it's great to use lots of Spanish content to use as a study tool.
@@realfastspanish I understand your concern for the vagueness of the concept but that may be a plus. For me practically it means (at 2 extremes):1. I can understand enough sentences to get the gist of what is being said and I enjoyed listening (if it is too much of a struggle, is boring or I need to really motivate myself to continue then it is a failure and not "comprehensible" for me) 2. I understand every word and enjoy the content. Here I'm happy when the understanding becomes more fluid (my mind does not have to think back, confirm guesses on certain words) and I can deal with faster input. Here I am internalizing the frequency and sense selection (or new senses or presence in a new phrase/chunk) of the words I already "know" within the topic area of the input. Of course, this means for me there are multiple "sweet spots" - which is great, it varies my learning! Personally I think the "input" part- recognizing the sounds, naturally and enjoyably - in contrast to applying a grammatical lesson or ... what I've heard as described vaguely as "studying" is most important - so yes, "general input as a study tool" as you put it is perhaps primary.
I am a retired French Immersion teacher. I learned by the traditional grammar-translation method and it worked for me. I looked up every unknown word, first in a bilingual dictionary and then, when my vocabulary had grown, in a monolingual dictionary. I also studied grammar books. Over time, I began to think in French. I no longer had to translate in my head. But it was a process. I don't believe that it can be rushed. As you have said, progress comes only by study.
I'm trying to learn Spanish and I agree with the method you mentioned at the beginning of the video - learning the literal meaning of what you're saying. When you're listening to a new language, from English to Spanish for example, you're expecting the words to be in a different order. But if you can become familiar with the different formats they use when forming sentences, I think this is a crucial part of learning (at least at the beginning). Thanks for your videos!
Thanks for sharing Erin! 😊
I agree with you. I have used your videos for years, but recently began exploring the claims made by these other sites. I wanted some background before trying to help my granddaughter (19 years old) how to speak Spanish. I experienced the usual frustration myself trying to watch or read material a little beyond my level. You're right... it takes very little "incomprehension" to lose comprehension. Thanks for helping clarify.
Excellent video. This makes so much sense. Thank you!
Yes you make a great point that will save people from wasting their time...listening to a strange language over time and getting no knowledge
Totally agree! Thank you so much for your videos! I've been really struggling with comprehen.
It is awesome that you are still making RUclips videos on Spanish! Thank you for your work!!
I think more to the point is the question of what your learning style is. I agree with your comments because I am a visual learner.
I agree completely! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video. Very helpful information.
Good analysis! As an ageing cynic/realist, I think a lot of the immersion/comprehensible input hype is due to how easy it is to make YT videos promoting it. And people love to hear that there's some easy method to learn where you don't even need to get away from your screen!
The part I don't get is: how can you be confident in your speaking, when all you do is listen and watch? For me, learning Spanish, my accent was appalling! It took many 1 to 1 lessons to correct my speaking errors. And pronounciation is vital for communicating. I've found that 9 times out of 10, when my bumbling Spanish is not understood, it's not that I'm saying the wrong words. It's my pronounciation. I repeat with more care in speaking, and it's fine, I'm understood. But as I said, it took 1 to 1 lessons practicing with a human tutor to understand that. I think for many, maybe especially as we age, we do need that active interraction. Comprehensible input is great for maintenance though, as you say.
As always, you break things down in a way that is easy to understand. This video is a great reminder that truly studying is the best option. Thank you! ☺️
This analysis of comprehensible input is spot on.
I find this to be a serviceable definition: Comprehensible input is a technique for acquiring a second language in which input is provided at a level that allows the student to understand most, but not necessarily all, of the target language.
As a Super beginner Listening to my target language by playing music or listening to an audio book with ZERO comprehension really works for me. I totally agree that it does not improve my Spanish so studying is a Critical part of the process but when I listen to Spanish it calms my mind and prevents it from the frustration of trying to translate. I listen for sounds, rhythm and dialect which are things you can’t pick it in a book. I wouldn’t recommend doing what you did by listening to incomprehensibly language in the car on my way to work because it would be too distracting. I listen when I’m taking a walk or relaxing. To me this feels like poetry. You don’t have to comprehend music or art or the words of Shakespeare in order to feel a connection. I am learning Spanish to not only speak the language but to connect with people, culture and have meaningful experiences
I’d love to hear your thoughts on Dreaming Spanish. Pablo draws and repeats a lot (at the lower levels). Is that different than defining unknown words? Does this work?
These are the steps, I am currently doing.
1. Listening
2. Reading
3. Writing
4. Speaking .
I AM doing my language Learning in that exact order.
Thanks Andrew useful and thought provoking. I agree. I enjoy watching Spanish language Netflix shows in Spanish and with Spanish subtitles and when I don't understand something I pause and look it up, and that is definitely helping my ability to understand the language. Watching it without studying it would add little or nothing to my Spanish skills
Thanks for the feedback. Well said!! You said in a few short sentences what it took me 10 minutes to say 😂
I am a lower intermediate Spanish learner. Comprehensible and incomprehensible are extremes, for me a lot of spoken Spanish falls in the middle, i know the words being said, but maybe I don't know the meaning of the grouping being used or maybe my ear has difficulty picking some words out in a sentance. Perhaps i knew a few of the words but not all of them. I find now that I understand maybe 50% of what's being said on a Spanish podcast a lot of times meanings can be picked up from the context of the conversation. I hear words that i know being grouped together into a phase that has a compound meaning i didn't know, but sometimes i get it because of the context. I hear a word here and there that pops out, that maybe was blending into other words previously, after that I'm more likely to hear that word again. I hear phases i had learned earlier but maybe I'd forgotten, and i hear them used in appropriate places. I make little connections about the patterns of speech for the vocabulary I've studied, and i feel these little connections are sticky because they are building on things my brain "kinda" knew already. So i disagree with you on this one. Love your videos thank you!
I learned Spanish phrases here and there as a kid, (I grew up in a Mex-Am family so a slight advantage) as a teenager got to a lower intermediate level or maybe a high beginning level. Going from intermediate to advanced was tough and have been using the input method (mostly reading and listening to podcasts)for a year now. First 6 months I saw very little improvement but once I got closer to a year i noticed a huge improvement in my Spanish. For many months i underestimated the input hypothesis but now understand how it works for me. I believe in making the input comprehensible to a point. The problem before was i would say things wrong or at the higher intermediate level still making small grammatical errors, basically sour notes in my output. The input helped that very much.
I agree! I used books on Kindle in Spanish and will spend and hours on break down the sentences and then switch to another book with similar Spanish, listen and follow along. For picking up new words. When practicing words I am familiar with, I like to read a section in a grammar book, and then either listen to a book following along or a tv show, to see if I can find the grammar rule. It has been working great, but it alot of work, and take patience and motivation to do this, but I love every single moment.
I am amazed at how many "videos" there are about about learning a language as you sleep. Obviously this is a pipe dream. (pun intended)
You nailed it. That’s also why romantic relationships work so well for learning the target language. Ones partner adds new words spontaneously and provided explanation while one is intently interested.
Haha 😂 Thanks for sharing!! The romantic relationship method would be hard to put into practice if a student was learning multiple languages.
@@realfastspanish to be sure jajaja. I sure have enjoyed learning Spanish ❤️. Your stuff is excellent all around too man. Cheers
Comprehensible input for me has these qualities:
- Speaking slowly
- Pauses and clear breaks in-between sentences and ideas
- Lots of visual communication
- Repetition of new words in different contexts
- Simple short sentences with one or two main verbs or nouns
- Lots of non-verbal communication
- Mostly common-use words and phrases I might recognize from other studies
It's exactly the same as having a friend willing to teach me a thing or two. The best benefit is practicing what I have already learned. I like to have a little bit of casual CI when I can't study. It's better than nothing. It's like when I learn art or music, it can't be all study. I teach piano and I always recommend at least 10% lazy and loose study where you just have some fun. At least 10% to 20% should be hardcore drills and exercises. The remaining time should be normal study. It's about maintaining a realistic routine that you can keep up consistently. So, yes I definitely agree that CI should be more of an activity to do for fun or for practice, but should not be 100% of your time with the language. Or anything for that matter. People learn their native language in a combination of both ways. I think CI helps with consistency, memorization, and immersion.
Wow this video really helped me. Makes sense. I have a list on my phone of words I don’t know in that “25 percent” of incomprehensible input that I look up when I’m watching or listening to stuff to help increase my vocabulary. Over time it helps me progress in my target language. May the grace, peace, and salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ be with all who read this.
Hi, I appreciate a look into comprehensible input from your understanding thereof. I am a self-student of Koine Greek, and I must say, comprehensible input as practiced by students of Latin and Ancient Greek is widely attested as an effective means of acquiring those languages. Although I have seen very old books that employed either a similar or the same methodology, the much acclaimed book, Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata is the darling among Latin aficionados, and a project for Ancient Greek is mimicking its form and structure. Essentially, building from very basic vocabulary and grammatical structure and slowly adding new concepts that are ascertained intuitively. I have read through a few chapters of the Greek rendition and must say that although I was not perusing it from a blank slate scenario, it was rather refreshing with how it unfolds as one reads through it. I have also watched a brief lecture from a linguist whose name escapes me [Edit: Stephen Krashen] , he demonstrated comprehensible input through illustrations and bodily gestures, demonstrating how it could be employed in German. Personally, it seems a fantastic method if it refers to such aforementioned methods. Granted, I also am a strong fan of the interlinear method (provided it be carried out well), though there is strong prejudice against this method as a means of acquiring language. God bless you and have a great day!
I agree with you/ I like your lessons very much and find them helpful. I know I must put in the effort to improve. Thx again
This is the most engineer-brain video ever (and I say that with love). The way I think about comprehensible input is that it helps approximate immersion when (as is the case for most of us) we are not living in our target language. You're being a bit glib in saying that the 75% you already understand is useless, because of course hearing that 75% again falls under the category of repetition, which is key to making things stick in our brains. You're absolutely right though that the CI movement gives people an out from the hard work of sitting down, writing things out, looking up questions they have, etc., in favor of just watching a Netflix show.
Haha ❤️ Yes, I agree, if you understand something, hearing it over and over again helps with maintenance and reinforcement. The key is also to continue to expand your knowledge base, and hard work certainly plays an important role here! 😊
I'm a Spanish learner and I'm at an intermediate level, I agree with some what you're saying but I would say I have learned a lot of new words, grammar structures and phrases by listening to input which wasn't fully comprehensible. This is mostly because I have heard something that sounds familiar or something that is logical but there other instances in which I have had to go away and look up what I have heard but this definitely isn't always the case. And my feeling is that the further I get with my ability in Spanish the more useful comprehensible input is becoming.
Exactly! It’s not what you it’s oh you do it.
Thanks for sharing Robert! It's interesting the term "not full comprehensible" and you mentioned that comprehensible input is becoming more useful. My starting point for this video is that these terms are not well defined. It sounds like as your Spanish is improving you are comprehending more complex materials which I think is the process that every student goes through as their skills improve.
I agree that a balanced regular study approach is important. I commenced learning Spanish six months ago with the primary focus on conversation. Everyday conversations and familier phrases. One of your videos on Ir stuck with me. Voy a ......... Another me gusta. Keep your approach, it works. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing Alan!! 😊
I completely agree. I have been learning spanish with a spanish teacher (on skype) for 14 months and was 55 years old when I started. I had never learned any spanish at all before . At first, my teacher led the conversation and spoke in english to me for most of the time , then translated everything that I replied to him in to spanish ... that way the conversation was at beginners level and relevant to me, which kept me interested and willing to learn. I do put a lot of work in by listening to spanish language on youtube and reading as much as I can , but especially in the beginning, the whole thing would have been a complete non-starter if he hadn't spoken in english and I would have definitely given up.
Thanks for sharing Kathryn!! 😊. I'm glad to hear that you got a solid start and that your Spanish is improving!
In my opinion, comprehensible input is important, but only effective if you supplement it with other studies. It is a great tool to remind you of words and phrases that may be somewhat forgotten, or in the back of your mind. On the other hand, I have learned new words and phrases from my clients without asking the meaning. Many phrases just kept repeating, and I figured them out and clarified them (with additional studies, however). I would consider this a form of comprehensible input, so it depends on the content and how it is presented. I do agree though, that you have to have some grasp of the subject you are on and cannot not overstep your boundaries.
Very thoughtful. Your videos are really insightful and enjoyable.
I agree with what you have said in the video, and further, I would add that listening to "comprehensible input" is a form of procrastination. You feel like you are putting in the time (passive listening) so then you don't need to study or address goals. Having said that, you do need the i+1 difficulty, but that is best done by a teacher that knows your "i".
Thanks Les, yes, this is exactly what I'm most worried about as a teacher!! I think there are a lot of students passively listening thinking that they are doing the right thing but their skills aren't improving because the activity is too passive.
Let me say first that I am not a teach and have only been learning Spanish for six months using comprehensible input.
When I was in my 20s I attempted to learn German using mostly study and I failed miserably. I studied and studied and made no progress. Six months ago, at 34, I decided to give Spanish a try using this method I'd recently heard about. I popped earbuds in at work and listened to podcasts and audio books for 8hrs a day, every day, not having any clue at first what I was hearing. Along with this I used Busuu to do about a half hour of study a day. I didn't have time for any more than that. The difference was night and day. I am to the point now where I can form my own sentences, although I'm far from fluent, and I can understand a huge chunk of what I hear and almost all of what I read as long as it isn't overly technical. Comprehensible input is most definitely a valuable method for study as far as I'm concerned.
This will sound a bit antagonistic but I also have never heard comprehensible input described the way you describe it. I've only ever heard that it's basically 90% listening and reading and 10% studying. The idea is to get your ears and eyes trained as you go. It's like one of those glass boxes they have you stand in and try to catch money as it's whipped through the air around you with fans. If you stay in for five minutes you're not going to catch much. but if they left you in there all day and kept adding money you'd probably master it.
Anyway, again, I'm not a teacher nor am I yet fluent in a second language. If you'd like to check somebody out who uses this method I'd recommend Steve Kaufman.
Great response! I am not really sure where he got the idea that there is no exact definition because there is. The creator of term did explain it.
I am similar to you. I started studying German and really only improved a lot once I started listening to the news in German .It was hard at first, but repeated exposure helped it become comprehensible.
Thanks for sharing Chuck!! I'm aware of Steve Kaufman and it's part of the reason I was nervous with this video because I'm disagreeing with some of the things he says. But, I still have a lot of respect for him as a person, language learner and teacher. How do you define comprehensible input? You said you would listen for 8 hours a day and not have a clue what you were hearing, that's INcomprehnsible input, isn't it?
@@realfastspanish I would define it as finding input you want to engage with and then listening, reading, or, preferably, both at the same time, and also doing about a half hour of studying. That's essentially it. If you hear something 50 times, even if you don't understand it, it will stick with you and become clearer as you study. It just feels more natural as though it's easing you into the language rather than thrusting you into it, which is how mostly studying felt to me. Maybe Comprehensible isn't the best word for it in the beginning when you literally can't comprehend anything. But the method itself is sound as far as I'm concerned.
Now, this doesn't mean your method doesn't work. You speak a second language fluently. Obviously it works. I think it's just about what works best for each of us. it's a language, not math. I don't think there is one true best method that can be applied to everyone. But for me, comprehensible input/incomprehensible input, whatever you wanna call what I learned from Steve kaufman, is what has so far worked best.
Thanks Chuck! I'm still a little confused by what it means and your example demonstrates how people talk about it differently. But, if you know what it means and it is working for you, then that's all that matters!!! 😊
Thanks for some "Aha!" moments, Andrew. I had heard about CI, but had been unable to utilize the idea in my Spanish learning. Now I feel as though the fault was less mine than that of the vagueness of the term. Vague ideas do not make for improvement, but they do make great buzzwords!
Thank you for this thoughtful video. I completely agree. I am an adult repeat beginner and I could not understand the reason for all the enthusiasm over comprehensible input. It seemed far too nebulous to me. I much prefer the methodology of Real Fast Spanish and others that place emphasis on vocabulary and grammar. Keep up your great work.
Thanks for the feedback Ann!! 😊
I watch Spanish language news. This is after I have already seen the English language news. So lots of times I have some idea what they are talking about.
I find I am able to pick out individual words and phrases. Also the headlines are printed on the screen. That way I can get new words and add them to my vocabulary list.
Not sure if I will ever be fluent in Spanish. I am now 64 years old. I have a 600 day plus streak on duo lingo. I am experimenting with studying scripture in Spanish. That is a great way to find Spanish language speakers that want to practice with you.
Maybe for me the goal should just be to keep my mind active by learning new things. I am learning something. I think things that are necessary for fluency but "necessary bit not sufficient" is the key thing here.
Thought provoking message. So what about playing duo lingo every day, watching Spanish news, and studying scriptures with Spanish speakers in Spanish. Add to that going to a street food vender who has set up shop in my neighborhood.
I keep trying!
Yes, you can definitely be fluent. One of the best students I have ever worked with was 78 and he started learning when he was 71. So it’s possible! I don’t think Duolingo is that helpful. It’s really important that you try different methods, this is critical!!!
I could not agree more. I’ve been a French teacher for over twenty years and am learning Spanish currently and apply the same rules and practices that I always encouraged my students to do. There are different learning styles from auditory to visual learners. Regardless it is still important to comprehend what you hear and see. Gracias
Thanks for your feedback Gilles! 😊
I think you are 100% correct with this. My wife's family almost speaks 100% Spanish. Now I have been married to her for 43 years and listen to Spanish every day. I can pronounce the words and completely understand certain phrases without thinking of English. But I still cannot hold a conversation in Spanish. We are planning to eventually move to Mexico. So I decided to put more effort into my Spanish. For the past two weeks I have been studding the construction/grammar of the language. In just two weeks of studding grammar and verbs tenses. I can say it has brought me light years closer to holding a conversation in Spanish. I think even if you knew many words and their meaning (As I do). If you don't know how to make a sentence you cant understand or communicate. It's just a bunch of disconnected words. My mother in law is the same way. She has lived in the US for probably more then 60 years (She speaks very little English). Now even with just my two weeks of study we can begin to have a conversation. Or at least way better than we use to. As a adult I think it would be very difficult (If not impossible) to just listen to a language and learn it.
Thanks for sharing your experience!! 😊
edge! This is what i was looking for. I find that we have so much material for CI and studying, but no methods for structuring our conversations. i grew up hearing french. I can read and understand. I even speak with disconnected phrases as i have a hard time with conjugation. The advice I'm told is to "speak". That's great, but nobody provides structural guidance in how to strategize learning to speak. Yet, we have all these tools for comprehensible input like netflix, chrome extensions, linq, etc.
As with everything, it's probably a combination of things. For example, I learned English completely by watching, consuming content, and then speaking in the language. Of course it took years and countless hours so it wasn't fast by any means. I started learning Spanish and I listened to language transfer's audio course a few times which gave me good basics but what has actually helped was listening to Spanish twitch streamers. I think it's crucial to have visual input as well as listening to content, which I think you didn't mention in the video. My Spanish comprehension is at a fairly good level unless it's Andalucian. My speaking is awful because I don't really have anybody to speak to regularly.
The example about trying to fill in the missing word in a sentence wasn't exactly fair because it assumed it would be the only time you would hear the missing word. It's likely that if you hear the same word in another sentence which gives more context and clues about what it might be, you'll figure out the meaning of it. But again, I do think only reading or listening is not as useful as listening and watching where you get a lot more context.
Comprehensible Input is for people who are just learning grammar without doing a language exchange or getting any prior exposure to the language they want to learn outside of school books and exercises.
In my experience, Comprehensible Input is used to reinforce listening to the words, grammar, and conjugations you already know. It's done with audiobooks, series, and movies, so it's less boring than taking a course.
It also helps you become familiar with the native pronunciation of the language you want to learn. It doesn't eliminate taking notes or researching grammar, but here you'll be learning the language by researching grammar as it's presented to you in what you're watching or reading, and not in a school order, which some of us find too boring or tedious to follow.
I’m brand new to learning a language, I didn’t have to take a language course in high school, I did take some in middle school but that was so long ago, I forgot most of what I was taught so I’m just speaking from personal experience here which isn’t much to go off of but I have to say context helps but like you’ve pointed out, it can only get you so far. An example I can use on context actually helping was over 10 years ago, I got into watching the series Detective Conan which was over 600 episodes at the time (over 1k now) & hearing all that Japanese within the span of 4 months helped me pick up on some stuff here & there, obviously I had English subtitles to use but like I didn’t know much. At one point when I was watching about a year after I caught up & was keeping with the show as it was airing, a moment happened where the screen froze for a second but the audio continued going so I missed the subtitles but due to knowing a few things said & generally knowing what’s happening on screen, I knew what was said like I didn’t need to rewind to catch it. If listening to something that’s pure audio without any visuals, I can see how context would be difficult to grasp if it was something very vague like the example given. It can help but isn’t good enough.
I’ve been wanting to learn Spanish because there’s a lot of people in my area who speak Spanish, including my next door neighbor so I figure it would be helpful. Not too long ago, I had to wait behind someone in line at a store to do something that would take me about 5 minutes & it took her about a half hour to do her transaction with the only employee working in the store because she couldn’t speak English & he couldn’t speak Spanish, she had to get her friend on the phone to translate stuff & there was even a bit of an issue with the translating, the person translating misunderstood something the employee said & it caused them to have to redo the transaction all over again, the translator was giving the guy the person trying to buy the thing her email address & home address by spelling out every letter & number slowly because it was something they didn’t have in stock & was going to ship to her place. If I better knew what was going on in the conversation, I could of probably stepped in & help it go by faster.
Actually, it’s almost normal seeing people on the phone with it on speaker as they’re in stores where I’m at, just the other day I was picking up some groceries & someone on the phone was talking on speaker with someone in Spanish that seemed like the person on the phone was helping her with some labels or something, I’m unsure. Just seems like it’d be useful for me to learn Spanish so I could better communicate if I need to.
Everyone was saying that comprehensible input helps & while reading the stories on Duolingo has me feeling proud that I understood them enough, when I’m watching something in Spanish, I’m so lost without subtitles because I’m like super beginner level & if I don’t know what they’re saying, how am I supposed to learn?
Creo que tanto el estudio como el input son buenas herramientas. Estoy muy de acuerdo con la necesidad de estudiar para aprender. Con respecto al input comprensible, siento que es bueno para acostumbrarse a las formas naturales en que suena el lenguaje y cómo usar ciertas expresiones. Se puede estudiar por unos instantes y luego cambiar al input para descansar un poco del estudio.
¡Gracias Dan por compartir! 😊
My observation is that people that have a good grasp of how grammar works in their native language tend to do better with comprehensible input, I have seen English teachers, or young people in high school still studying grammar praising this method. For me, as an adult studying my third language it didn’t work, now that I’m studying grammar, trying to understand how my own language works, and reading short stories out loud, now I’m truly making progress. Before I memorized all these words and phrases, I was able to pick them up on tv, radio, etc but I couldn’t make my own phrases.
I think comprehensible input functions similarly to how children acquire language: by hearing a word (or reading it) and understanding its meaning through context or visuals etc. vocabulary grows and language is acquired, especially when the process is repeated in more contexts
It's good to question things. Comprehensible input is self-describing to me, and it does not require accessing a sweet spot if you put some effort into acquiring new vocabulary. Its efficacy depends on the student's effort. You are correct that we need to learn, not just passively absorb whatever comes easily. Learning can continue even in our native language, but it requires the same effort to pursue the new words that we encounter. That said, there are definitely pieces of literature, etc. that can be non-comprehensible in comparison to other works. It doesn't do a novice or intermediate level learner to read Borges or Shakespeare, for instance. Pick something accessible, even if not perfectly comprehensible without study.
I am in agreement like I think that learning a language is meant to be learned traditionally however it is not bad to listen to Spanish or listen to your target language. I think that both are necessary
I was briefly a fan of comprehensible input but my view has evolved to be close to what yours is. However, the marketing of CI from many quarters is strong and carefully crafted. In my case, the confusion stemmed frommy relatively weak listening comprehension skills when I first started the transition from a text-heavy university education to one more focused on listening/speaking. 4 months of private tutoring did wonders for restoring that balance so that following the CI principle mindlessly or even principally now seems obviously inefficient. I still like listening to "comprehensible" and diverse podcasts for enjoyment and for improving my listening skills but without any illusion that it should comprise most of my learning diet.
I appreciate the video and generally share your take on comprehensible input however you seem to be judging it based on how much is learned through input. For me, the benefit of this type of input is more to improve my listening skills. Did I learn new vocabulary? No, but it reinforces previously learned vocabulary and helps my listening ability.
Thanks and keep up the good work!!
Thanks for the feedback Brad! Yes, absolutely, if you find a resource that is improving your knowledge of the sounds of Spanish as well as maintaining your vocabulary then keep it up!!
I spend the vast majority of my time drilling phrases on flash cards and make incredible progress this way.. I can learn 2500 words a month when I'm pushing it hard.. but I feel it's important to expose my self to some things I can't quite understand yet just to get used to sounds
I live in Mexico and moved here 13 years ago with no Spanish skills at all. I went to classes of different modalities ( dance , history, ecology, circus arts, Temezcals) usually there is at least one person who can explain something to you if needed. I also traveled on buses where no one speaks English. This forces comprehension because you are living it. Study per se was never fun for me but I love people and participating intuitively. I even stay with a family every once in awhile who does not speak much Spanish ( they speak an indigeousness tribal language) and we manage to laugh and have a great time. I think of necessity as a wonderful way to get more comprehension and I LOVE your videos to improve my skills in small bits. LOVE both ideas. suggest making friends who DO NOT speak your first language.
Thanks Mari, it's a good suggestion! I agree, "necessity is the mother of all invention" 😊
I agree 100%! You have to take the time to study by increasing your vocabulary and learning grammar. I think the people that are using "comprehensible input" have a technique that works for them but to me it seems synonymous to studying in the dark. Why make things hard for yourself when you can take one day to study basic things like the alphabet and numbers 1-10.
Thanks!! Great advice, I agree with you.
I also am someone who never had Spanish in school . I had 4 years of French and can't remember much of anything because I never used it . Playing baseball and living in Hartford Connecticut in the south end for three years I learned more Spanish in the years 18-21 but unfortunately as for learning Spanish I moved to Vermont where I didn't hear anyone speak Spanish and when I bought a home in mass where there are a lot of Spanish speaking people my home is in the woods in a small town so living in a city or urban area gives someone a better opportunity . However with all the apps on line now there is no excuse if you're motivated . That said when I had about 3 years studying and using apps I found I could read decent and actually speak ok although I make a lot of errors . But you have to speak and not be afraid to make mistakes to improve. The hardest thing for myself as most people I hear is understanding native speakers . So I started listening to music in Spanish and watching shows . However I found it difficult to watch a movie or show I didn't have any idea about. So then I stepped back and watched " los tres cerditos" the three little pigs and understood a lot more because I knew what the story was about however I still struggled even with a kids story. But it takes time . Maybe there's some polyglot geniuses, however I think any app or person that says you can learn Spanish in 3, 6 , or 9 months is not being honest . It takes years learning a second language well. Less time if immersed in the language by living somewhere that English is rarely used . Subtitles also help however I suggest using subtitles in the language your learning vs English if that's your native language . I never had any formal classes and am no teacher but only saying what is helping me to be at a b2 level without school nor paying a dime to tutors . There's exchanges and plenty of resources . If you can afford one on one with a tutor I would imagine it's worth it and helps . Even better is a friend that is fluent in the language so you feel comfortable . And it helps a bit if the person can speak your native language to explain some things your really frustrated and struggling with. Good luck . Never quit and spend an hour a day or more every day and we all can learn Ingles and español with time practice and pacience . Don't be frustrated if after a year You still arent at intermediate level. Everyone learns at different rate and there is no certain time to be fluent as at 56 i'm still learning words in My native language .
We learn when we understand messages. Where input is not comprehensible it can be made comprehensible. By context, an attached translation, repeating something, pictures, a video.
Extensive reading posits an understanding of at least 98%, preferably 99%. This allows for a speed of reading and absorption of new vocab. One also learns grammar by implicit exposure.
In any case, a reader will acquire new vocab and good grammar. The key is to identify available comprehensible input. That is a separate challenge.
I find this a very good summary of the topic. I personally find the best "comprehensive" practice is to read/listen to things that I am already familiar with in my own language. E.g. look at series that I have seen already, reread books in my target language and so on.
Thanks for sharing Andrea!! 🙏
My experience (very limited) is reading beginning Spanish stories. I have redid some stories where there were many words that I didn’t recall. Many of those words I could understand from context. Actually when I read English I understand what I’m reading by context, so it’s not much different. Thank you for your Videos!!!
¡Que interesante es este video! Es genial escuchar a alguien haciendo un argumento considerado contra la sabiduría común del Internet. Me disculpe mi español débil, pero intentaré hacer estos comentarios en español.
He llevado cinco años estudiando español por mi cuenta, y mi modo primario de aprendizaje ha sido leer libros y escuchar podcasts, es decir, input comprensible. En general, estoy muy contento con mi habilidad de leer y también de escuchar cosas como las noticias o los podcasts para nativos. Sin embargo, mi habilidad de entender conversaciones en la calle es mucho peor, y mi habilidad de hablar es casi cero.
La razón de esta situación es que no practico con frecuencia las conversaciones y cada una de estas habilidades necesita una práctica específica: el input comprensible no es suficiente por sí mismo. En eso estamos de acuerdo.
Pero creo que tú subestimas el valor de input comprensible para aprender vocabulario y gramática. Como dice el políglota, Steve Kaufmann, muchas, si no la mayoría, de las palabras que se aprenden, se olvidan y luego se aprende otra vez. Esta es también mi experiencia. Leer es la manera más natural, y para mi la más placente, para recordarme el significado de las palabras que he olvidado en un contexto memorable.
Gracias otra vez por este video geniál.
¡Gracias Stuart por las amables palabras! 😊
Soy hablante nativo del idioma y puedo decir que tu español está bastante decente.
Totally in agreement. Study is they key to understanding Spain. You miss under the verbs if you don't understand what content they are in, so you don't get the sense of what's been said. It's the first time someone agrees with my thoughts. Thank you
Thanks for sharing Shamim!! 😊
@@realfastspanish You're the best I've come across who explains with how I feel learning the language. Muy bien profesor
I think that input (in a language one is learning) that one fully understands and also enjoys and/or finds informative can help with motivation. And perhaps fluency. Also, there's the issue of different speakers, different accents, and different speaking speeds.
CI just means that your input should be at a level where you understand most of it but that a manageable part of it is challenging. Then the part you don't understand in the input is the bit you need to find out the meaning of, using any way or method available. What makes it CI, though, is that the rest of the input is comprehensible. In other words that the difficulty is at a level that is manageable for you. That's all that CI means. There's no big mystery.
If you want a definition of CI then it's "ensure that your input is at a level such that most of it is comprehensible, but that a manageable part of it is just beyond your current knowledge so that you can learn something new" Where manageable is the key.
There's no suggestion that anything magical happens or any kind of synergy takes place just by taking in something slightly incomprehensible. The comprehension gap always needs to be bridged. If you have a teacher they might draw pictures or show photos or use mime in order to encourage you to work it out yourself, but that's just a choice; just one way of doing things. They could equally just tell you the answer; or if you are learning by yourself then look it up or whatever.
In other words your preferred 'solution' which you give at the end is pretty much what CI is in the first place.
I agree with you. The only "instant" comprehension I ever had was with cognates....which was like reconizable words from the get go. and the learn a language from reading tons of books method requires studying the same as if one was working with an excyclopedia.
Guessing from context works much better than I would have expected, plus there are a lot of cognates. But even if not, I suspect the exposure can help me remember the word's sound (whenI do learn it) and possibly some semantic association with surrounding words. I have definitely looked up words hours later from memory, usually if they were repeated several times and I couldn't pause to research while listening. Context is also much more useful for barely remembered words, and ones I tend to confuse. Most of all, listening to interesting content of which I understand 80 to 90 percent is way more enjoyable than anything that could reasonably be called studying, and is available a much larger fraction of the day. Even barely understanding half, most of the sentence structure might be clear, including parts of speech for many unknown words or phrases. So I agree that learning meanings is important, but it doesn't necessarily have to come first, and the motivational aspect, especially for adult learners, of just reading or listening is hard to overstate. I agree that as a "scientific" concept, the term needs a definition, but as a rule of thumb that has helped me more than 5 years of Spanish classes, I'd say you're being too picky.
I think what you said about having to study a language to improve it applies more so in the context of not being in an environment where the language is spoken (which is the case for most people learning a foreign language). I do believe, though, that you can dramatically improve your speaking skills with limited "study" if you're fully immersed in the language...but I think you'd need to have an outgoing, sociable personality with no fear of making mistakes to pull it off. These people do seem to be the minority though, and very few people have the luxury to just drop everything and do a true immersion....so yeah, I agree that what you said applies for the vast majority of language learners. Very insightful video!
Thanks for sharing Andrew!! 😊
Wow fantastic explanation! 👌🏻 ¡Gracias!
I agree with you. I would love to see you in discussion with steve Kaufman and olly Richard's. The virus of comprehensible input.
Thanks for the feedback Chris! I know both Steve and Olly and have worked with them in the past, I'm sure both would be happy to have a discussion. But, I'm not sure if I want to go further with this topic, it's really divisive. And it seems that people have made up their mind one way or the other and I'm not sure if more content would result in a productive outcome.
Meant to say gurus not virus.
@@chriswilcocks8485 ;D two letters; a universe of difference
Excellent video. I agree with your summary of CI’s value-or lack thereof-as a learning tool. I do want to revisit and emphasize one point you made about ways to learn language, and that is through practicing pronunciation. In my experience as a Spanish teacher, this is crucial. When learners pronounce words correctly, they get a double reinforcement of language acquisition-not only are they speaking it correctly, but they are hearing it, too. It’s a two-for-one payback. I spend a lot of time working on proper pronunciation and ensuring student learn to pronounce every new word they learn. The benefits have been demonstrated in my students’ remarkably improved proficiency in all modes. Thank you for this video!
Krashen defines it perfectly in his main video descibing it. So it is explained. Just not by the current crop of RUclipsrs. But that video is out there all over the place. All you have to do it watch it.
Really really well put. Thanks for sharing. I completely agree.
Thanks for the feedback!! 🙏
I agree with you. How is any progress made when you are befuddled with language you do not understand. I would also add, I can not count how so many 'instructors' seem to think a student is capable of understanding anything when they are speaking at a fluency speed.A student needs to crawl before they walk, walk before they run. I have been through alot of schooling and I am always amused with most instructors. Oh that is fantastic you know so much about this subject. Unfortunately , YOUR JOB is to facilitate the learning of this subject to those who are only learning. Lastly, and this is going to actually contradict what I just said, reading has been my salvation..I have been studying now for 4 years and finally, it has been regular reading which has really helped confirm the grammer I have learned. Going through textbooks and laying down the grammer and preliminary vocabulary is fine but it all seemed quite separate from a contihous thing. Use of the language. SO by reading, the many facets seem to have congealed if you will. It's like frankenstien has finally come alive. Thank you for your valuable training. Your work has been invaluable to me.
it seems you answered your own question- if we can’t intuit or deduce the chunks of meaning we are missing from a given piece of content, then it’s not yet comprehensible, is it? comprehensible input is either where we are already know or are able to intuit or deduce all or almost all of the chunks of meaning we don’t already know, or is material that we MAKE comprehensible through other additional means (like using repeated viewings, using captioning or subtitles, pausing playback as needed to think it through, doing vocab or grammar lookups, explicit study, making flashcards, sentence mining, using plot summaries or translations, adding context to written through pictures/video, etc.).
if we can’t understand the underlying meaning of the content, or don’t do something to make it so that we understand the underlying meaning of the content, it just ain’t, by definition, comprehensible input. yanno?
I don't know how language RUclips is using "comprehensible input," but the term originally comes from language theorist Stephen Krashen who studied second language acquisition. One of his ideas was that we learn language when we receive language input that is one step above what we are capable of, or put another way, language you can understand but can't produce yourself. That's what n+1 refers to, n being the language you can produce. We all understand more than we are able to produce, whether in our first language or in languages we learn later in life. That's the sweet spot where language learning takes place. Input that is comprehensible but not producible (for now).
I studied this concept in grad school courses for teaching English language learners. The point there was that as the teacher, you need to supply your students with English input that is comprehensible, that is something they can understand but that they wouldn't be able to produce independently. You can make content more comprehensible by explicitly teaching important vocabulary or grammar constructions that they'll encounter in a text, by incorporating visuals and gestures, and by using meaning negotiation tactics. But, if the text is too easy for them, if they're only seeing vocabulary and constructions they can already produce, they're not learning anything.
So, by this theory and consistent with what you said in the video, listening to a podcast would do you no good unless you were able to understand something like 95% of what's going on and to fill in the rest through context. And listening to language that's too easy, that you already know and can produce on your own also does you no good. You need language you can understand but not yet produce independently. Studying helps you scoot that comprehensible input zone further and further forward as you learn more vocabulary and grammar constructions.
Thanks for a thought-provoking analysis! My first thought is that if something is comprehensible to me, it doesn't necessarily mean that I understand it, but that it is possible for me to understand it. So I would see 'comprehensible input' as language that I could reasonably be expected to understand in an overall sense, even if I didn't know all of the words. I see what you are saying with the sentence about casseroles on the floor, so wouldn't comprehensible input need to ensure that the vocabulary or grammar likely to be unknown could be inferred from context?
I'm very dubious of the idea of being able to 'acquire' a language by using comprehensible input, but I do think it has value in one important area - becoming accustomed to the sounds and rhythms of a language. I've lived in Spain for almost 20 years, and haven't formally studied the language to a great extent, but I have reached a level of near-bilingual fluency by a combination of listening/reading and investigating words and structures that I didn't understand. Being surrounded by people speaking Spanish helped me to tune in to how the language sounds, and coupled with the rules of pronunciation that I knew, I was able to identify words even if I didn't know what they meant. I could then look them up later, and I had a relevant context for them that helped me to retain, and later retrieve, them.
I know not all learners are proactive or independent, and perhaps for them comprehensible input could be a distraction. One thing I've realised over the years is that I am very lucky in that I seem to have a natural ability with languages (I'm pretty rubbish at a lot of other things, though!!) and an innate desire to learn and grow. My language-learning experience may therefore be far from typical.
Overall, my view would be that comprehensible input is one of a range of tools available, and one that isn't necessarily going to suit all language learners. I wouldn't dismiss it, but I would say that it is most effective for learners who are very proactive in their approach and when used alongside study of other aspects of the language such as grammar and vocabulary. As a stand-alone language-learning strategy, I think it would have limited success.
By the way, I'm not a linguistics expert or trained language instructor; these are just thoughts based on my experience of learning Spanish.
Thanks for sharing Rachel! 😊
I think “comprehensible input” is a helpful heuristic to decide what material might be best to study. For instance, I’m not going to try and read “Cien Años de Soledad” because it would be mostly incomprehensible (and thus frustrating). However, a book like “Cajas de carton” or a graphic novel like “Dora” is understandable (with gaps) and positively reinforces my learning. In my mind, “comprehensible input” is a decison tool not a language learning method in and of itself.
Thanks for sharing TW! 😊 This is a very reasonable position, and I fully agree with the approach. I don't think everyone uses this logic when talking about comprehensible input. But, it is a very sensible viewpoint!!
I think you are spot on. However, I would define Comprehensible input / output as practicing your language skills much like a football or baseball player would practice to improve their skills. Although a baseball player can hit, throw and catch a ball it's done at different levels and I think this is the same with languages. There are some things that I understand in Spanish with no problem however, there are other things I can understand but it's really difficult for me to "keep up" with the conversation. Although it's "comprehensible input" I still need to practice before it's a natural translation in my mind. I think that is the "sweet spot" of language learning. I think we need to find a term for that area of language learning.
Thanks for sharing Bail!! 😊
My first contact with the spanish language was when I was a lil boy, a mexican comic-mouse, which often said this: Andale, andaleeee y arriba y arriba y arribaaa y viva mexicoooo !
I loved this mouse and thus his language. No one explained to me what it means, but I found out by deduction from french, my mother's language and german, my father's language. Andale, andale was very similar to the french expression allez, allez. Three times arriba reminded me the german dreimal hoch or hoch, hoch, hoch ! And viva mexico was similar to Vive la France ! So my presumption is that lil kids learn languages more by deductible comprehension or let's say deductible input. Duolingo uses that method too, but combined with explanations and that works really well... 😅
Is it "comprehensible input" to watch a movie in Spanish, that I've seen in English? I found this helpful when I was learning Ukrainian - not so much for vocabulary (I studied that with flash cards) but for getting a feel of how the words are used.
I think a key learning here is to create comprehensible input from previously incomprehensible content.
Tienes razón, sin duda.
¡Gracias Theresa! 😊
I think that you have it spot on. The "sweet spot" for me, means that I remember or relearn something that I once knew. However, it does help me to practice the language structure, syntax, flow and a particular dialect that I want to speak in. Would that then be considered CI?
Thanks for sharing! The main thesis of my video is that I'm not exactly sure what CI is so it's hard to analyse and put into practice. I've heard lots of people talk about it differently. For me, if your knowledge of the language is improving, that's all that matters, and I think any method can get you there.
I have just begun teaching myself Spanish. I'm very old, but what the heck. Instead of trying to figure out the theoretical value of Comprehensible Language, I am trying to figure out how it can be of value to my process. I found a RUclips video of someone who just prattles away, but, here's the good thing, her vocabulary is somewhat controlled. It's not like listening to a Greek minister. [Thanks for the living metaphor.] Plus, she uses gestures, pictures, and props. Moreover, since it's in RUclips subtitles are available in either SPANISH or ENGLISH! Making the leap from "direct instruction" to listening to a native is difficult. This may be a useful crutch.
I hear so much theory as I am constantly attempting to learn how to learn Spanish as much as I am trying to learn Spanish. All of it leaves me with the question “ok what do I actually do”? I have only been studying for 5 months but I study several hours a day and am absolutely driven to learn… I’m just sort of one of those people who when the switch is flipped I come out as if in a horse race. So I scratch and claw every day trying to learn from numerous sources and study grammar and phrases but at the end of most every day I am left completely frustrated wondering how much did I actually learn today. The process seems Tedious and slow… I keep looking for this comprehensible method that would work best and improve the speed at which I’m learning. I found a native speaker and now friend who wants to help but his English is much better so most all the time we speak English because I can’t speak enough to carry on a decent conversation….again beyond frustrated wondering if in the end this is just too difficult for me to manage…I know it takes a long time to learn a language but at this rate maybe in two years I can order a number 3 meal at Taco Bell from a kid named Larry who only knows English…
So I hear a lot about ideas but little about a practical plan.
I would like to hear “what”people have done to make input comprehensible to learn at a rate that feels valuable. I would welcome your thoughts.
Thank you… forgive my frustration. Scott