I share that same fear he was talking about that I could believe in Christ and yet still be in my sins. I haven't overcome this mental struggle yet, but I always find help in this channel. I'm glad that you focus on Gospel assurance through theological depth, because it's what I didn't know I needed.
Wow! Perfect timing for me to hear this! Union with Christ is a truth that I have been so overwhelmed to contemplate. It is so profound and wonderful that I could understand someone saying it’s too good to be true. And I feel like I haven’t even scratched the surface in my comprehension of it. Last week I tried my best to present it in a home group gathering and in spite of my inadequacy and as yet limited comprehension of the subject of union with Christ, the Holy Spirit did what I couldn’t and used it to bring an unsaved individual to a decision to come into union with Christ! I’m going to get a copy of Todd’s book! Thanks for this interview!
@@mysticmouse7261 I have my doubts about it meaning nothing, even if christ were merely a man with good moral teachings, I should think that him willingly suffering the crucifixion and dying in shame for my betterment in the future and for as many people as might find him helpful is worthy of love but I know of god, the father has made his presence known to me by his influence, so I can definitely say christ died for my sins, as well as yours, as he did for everyone's god came down to our level without being sinful and being loving, and suffered for our sakes and eternal joy
I've come to think that union with Christ, theosis, deification or what ever you prefer to call it, is one of the central aspects of classical Christianity. You don't fully understand what Christianity is about without it.
In the Apostolic Churches, it is essentially the entire point of the faith. It is odd to me, as an Orthodox Christian, to hear conversations like this. In my tradition, this issue has been settled and universally understood since the very beginning. It makes me wonder what people in the host’s and guests’ tradition have been doing this whole time.
Perhaps the reason why Protestants traditions have lost sight of these things is that the Enlightement ideas distorted our theology in some ways. The Orthodox tradition has been much more resilient in this sense.
@@AnciAlatir You’re probably on to something here. We’ve never experienced a “reformation” nor entertained (what we see as) trivial distinctions made by Protestant theologians. In the East, we don’t have categories such as salvation, justification, sanctification, and glorification - we simply have theosis.
@@cassidyanderson3722It's true that many Protestant traditions neglect the concept of theosis, but the solution is not to go in the opposite direction by neglecting the other ways Scripture speaks of salvation, such as justification (an extremely significant, _not_ trivial, category in Scripture, though admittedly often overemphasized by Protestants). Remember, we are to teach the whole counsel of God, not merely the part of it that our traditions emphasize. The common EOC narrative that "Eastern Christianity is really so simple but all the other splinter groups overcomplicated things and corrupted the faith" simply doesn't line up with Scripture, which has a robust and multifaceted, _not_ one-dimensional, approach to many theological concepts. The EOC has issues just like every other denomination. The key is to learn from one another, not simply point fingers at our brothers' theological blind spots.
What an awesome and edifying topic Gavin! Related to this topic of a hidden union with Christ, I would love for you to do a follow up video exploring the ideas of the Keswick convention from the 20th Century, which had many speakers who explored this topic thoroughly such as Andrew Murray, Jessie Penn-Lewis, William Law. I think this would be so interesting and edifying to see the history of this. Another interesting one would be your take on the mystics and/or the concept of suppression of the self which has often been referred to as "quietism" and was purported by historical figures such as Madame Guyon.
I would love more content on Theosis- deification and looking at the orthodox as well as Calvin and others who spoke of that doctrine. And particularly how we as Baptists should view it.. Thanks for your videos!!
Hey Dr. Ortlund, this channel has really blessed me, helping ease a lot of my ecclesial anxiety as well as growing my affection for Jesus! I would love it if you made a video about how to be a better counselor to those suffering from anxiety, insecurity and depression. How we can ask caring questions and lean on the Spirit for the advice we give. I think this goes along with your recent emphasis on friendship in your videos. Or maybe someone can point me in the right direction for a book or resource to help me better help my friends.
“Justification and sanctification, you can’t have one without the other, and yet they are distinct” (19:50). This is so good. I’ve come to think of justification as the root, which is formal union with Christ, the actual grafting into Christ’s benefits. Sanctification is the material growth of that justifying union with Christ, which is sanctifying. And this has its ultimate end in the resurrected body, which is our union with the material gift of immortality, which is the central aspect of theosis for a creature who remains creature, yet participates in the divine life as God intended in the Garden, but now more supremely as it is a mature and permanent characteristic of one’s nature. I wonder if we might not think of faith as not only marking a declaration of justification wholly upon Christ’s righteousness, but also as a “power” unto sanctification. As Paul says faith in Christ must bring about a working out of righteousness in one’s life because faith is participation in Christ’s death. This is confession of sin and a turning toward’s life in the way of Christ. To have a living faith is to have this union with Christ and so possess an intrinsic inertia towards sanctification. Faith as the reality of justification and as the real power of sanctification would ward off both the false Protestant tendency to disconnect sanctification from justification by faith (easy-believism) but also the Roman Catholic error that justification is an infusion of merit/grace into the soul that can be lost and so requires human works of sanctification and the sacraments to get it back (a secondary justification by works). If faith expresses justification and is the root power of sanctification, based upon Christ’s work and example, then faith and good works are held together, not just by accident, but by the essential nature of faith. And the Lord’s table becomes that place of reconnecting and centering ourselves on our formal union which is from Christ and wholly by grace, which is the root of Christ in us the hope of glory. Thoughts? What do people think of this notion of faith as a divine gift of a non-meritorious power rooted in a justifying union with Christ? I think this is very similar to what Todd is getting at with slightly different language. Is there anything faulty about thinking of Faith in Christ as containing an inherent motive “power” for good works without itself being meritorious?
I am glad this topic is being recovered. My reformed friends and I talked a lot about this in college. I think I remember them saying that Calvin viewed it as the most important doctrine. My Bible and religion professor Dr. William B. Evans also wrote a book on this subject called “Imputation and Impartation: Union with Christ in American Reformed Theology (Studies in Christian History and Thought).” I have yet to read it though. He was very interested in this subject and the Mercersburg Theology. I also want to read Dr. Jordan B. Cooper’s book “Union with Christ: Salvation as Participation (A Contemporary Protestant Scholastic Theology)” for a Lutheran treatment of this issue.
I think it's very valuable to draw out the point that the west isn't actually based on only legalism and transactional understandings of God's relationship with us, as opposed to the East, which has a more mystical view. The west, and Protestantism, has embraced many tenants of that too, and I'm glad more people are becoming aware of it.
Seth, it is by WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE that we are JUSTIFIED, for even if one has ALL FAITH, but does not LOVE, IT IS USELESS! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
Ignore Matthew-he is a troll and just comes here in bad faith to be divisive. I’ve corrected him numerous times on this passage and others that he uses to flag wave for his Roman church.
@@TomPlantagenet Truth is often ignored I agree! It takes a troll to know a troll! I challenge you and any Protestant to a public debate on RUclips regarding the True Gospel if you are not afraid! You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@matthewbroderick6287Matt, I don’t think you’re debating anyone anything. I shared the true gospel with you over and over and you ignore it. Furthermore, you don’t answer any questions you just say the same thing over and over again. And when you are pressed, you change the subject. I have the debated you on this page over and over, and I have refuted every argument. You are a bad actor who is in a very dangerous spiritual position. You honor your institution over Jesus Christ Himself. You can only be saved through faith in Jesus and His death and resurrection for your sins. Your good works do not save you, your good works do not contribute to your salvation, your good works do not keep you saved . You are saved by Jesus and Jesus alone or you’re not saved at all. When you add your works to the gospel, what YOU are saying is “Jesus is not enough.”
@@matthewbroderick6287 We are freely justified by placing faith in Jesus as Romans 3:24-25 points out. It is living faith that justifies not dead faith. It is a strawman to say Protestants teach easy believism. The Westminster Confession teaches that it is not a dead faith, but faith working through love (James 2:17. James 2:26, and Galatians 5:6).
My main problem with being a Christian is the critical scholarship I learned about in seminary. Kinda puts a dapener on gospels being eyewitness accounts and Paul writing his letters. Any advice?
I sounds like they are slipping deconstruction into seminary studies now. I'd try Cold Case Christianity. He has a great approach. He was an atheist and detective, and he took a forensic approach to the gospels and became Christian. I think it would bolster your faith again. James White is a bible expert from the original languages too.
Keep researching, a lot of the critical scholarship is out dated and being reversed as time goes on. Most of it is old hat from the late 18th to early 20th Century. I read critical scholars all the time and often the reasoning behind it is less than compelling. Luke for example is being viewed as almost pure history by many scholars as it often corrects non Christian historical sources with unknown details. Keep in mind the scholars study the historical record and draw their own conclusions. Other scholars look at the same data and come to the opposite conclusions. What is often taught in seminaries is not current with the scholarship, it’s only what is approved by the school.
47:30. I don't understand. I thought you were suppose to drink and never get thirsty and eat and not get hungry. Yet you're talking about like you're famished? The other part I don't understand is Jesus said to do it in remembrance of Him. Why is it not in simoly remembrance of Him? Why should I not trust Christ on this topic? Thanks!
Christ says we abide in Him if we keep the "Law of Faith" (Ro 3:27), and if we abide in Him, He supplies us with the Spirit (1 Jn 3:23,24), because the eternal life is in His Son (1 Jn 5:11), but the *singular* Law of Faith is *twofold* : 1) Believe in the Name of God's Son, and 2) Love one another "Love one another" is the same as saying "walk by faith", and "walk after the Spirit", because "faith... works by love", so infracting "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" (Ro 14:5) is "sin" (Ro 14:23), but what we do in faith is "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:16,17), like "footsteps of faith" (Ro 4:12), which is what James 2 is talking about, just as Paul says, "if we live by the spirit let us also walk by the spirit", so that Christians who do not "walk after the spirit" die and do not live (Ro 8:12,13), whereas even Gentile Christians, who do not have the Law, but who are under Grace and walk after the Spirit, are qualified as "doers of the Law" who will be "justified" when they are "judged" and "repaid... eternal life" (Ro 2:6-16, 26,27; Gal 6:6-10). This is how Paul can warn the immoral that God will withhold His Spirit if they live that way (1 Th 4:8), like King David, who said, after committing immorality, "do not cast me away from your presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit from me" (the presence is by the Spirit (Acts 3:19,20), and *only* God's people have His presence (Ex 33:15,16), the marker they are His people--so this is actually an issue and threat of being "cut off from among his people" (Ex 31:14; Ro 11:17-23), or "blotted out" (Ex 32:32; Rv 3:2-6)). This is also the only way to reconcile "no condemnation for those in Christ [in Whom there is no sin (1 Jn 3:5)]" (Ro 8:1) with the fact that there *is* "condemnation" for the believer who "sins" by doing what he doubts (Ro 14:5,23): by infracting the second table of the *singular twofold* "Law of Faith", the believer isn't "abiding" in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), but is led away by some form of idolatry (1 Jn 5:21), whether it is the "Galatian" idolatry ("this persuasion doesn't come from Him Who calls you" (Gal 5:8) means the false Gospel is a "doctrine of demons" (1 Ti 4:1), and "the idols the nations worship are demons" (Dt 32:16,17; 1 Co 10:20), resulting in them "deserting Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ" (Gal 1:6)) or any other form of idolatry (ie, selfishness--"no covetous man, who is an idolater" (Ep 5:5)). This is also how the person who doesn't provide for his family can be said to be "worse than an unbeliever", and be said to have "denied the faith": the command is a *singular twofold* command, so sinning against one part is like sinning against the other part, so his practical sin against his family functions like a denial of the Lord, the first table of the Law of Faith, which is why it stipulates, "The one who overcomes will be clothed the same way, in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels". Why would Christ even raise the issue of confessing them before His Father? "Whoever denies Me before men I will deny before My Father" (Mt 10:33)--the one who sins also is denying the Lord by not representing the Lord before men, since, if he was walking by faith, he would be revealing the Lord in his deeds. As James says, "I will show you my faith *by my works* --walking after the spirit, sowing to the Spirit, doing good, is the second table of the *singular twofold* Law of Faith, and this is "confessing Christ" with one's deeds, and to fail to do this, to not walk in faith, is like a denial of Christ, and this "unrighteousness" "suppresses God's truth" (Ro 1:18), and does not reveal His righteousness (even if you may appear "blameless" to men, if you are not walking in faith you're not revealing His righteousness (Ro 1:16,17), but, at best, a righteousness of your own based on the knowledge of Good and Evil (the Law (Pp 3:9) being only one form of this)), and it is a "defiling" of one's "garments" (Rv 3:4), and, as God, Who does not change, says, "the one who sinned against Me I will blot out of My Book" (Ex 32:32). Protestants tend to overemphasize the first table of the Law of Faith, so that the Bible makes no sense, and Old World believers (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox) tend to overemphasize the second table of the Law of Faith, so that there is no stability in the finished works of Christ (and this has been my error and weakness, as well--but I received the grace of prayer through fellowship with other believers, and I have received answers to my prayers), but there is a middle way of emphasizing Christ's finished works, and also recognizing the imperative of not only living by the Spirit but also walking by the Spirit, so that we are not believing some man's interpretation of the Scriptures, but believing ALL of the Scriptures--believing God, Himself.
@@laurasmith4498 I don’t think so. I remember his conversation with Joshua Schooping that occurred after Schooping’s apostasy. To my knowledge, he has never had an Orthodox Christian (priest or laity) on his show. Have I missed one?
Well, considering that the topic of this video is Union with Christ, meaning that we are actually United to God in Christ, I don’t see that there is anything to actually return to. We are in Christ and there is no better place to be.
It appears to me that this man does not have unity in the Christ, I do not have unity in the Christ if I am depressed, The Spirit Within me is not the Christ, in this, I am without the Christ, there is no Unity, if I'm full of my own spirit then in this I am not in Unity with the Christ, I have to be full of the Holy Spirit to have this Unity, that is, the Christ in me, he speaks of someone who is outside not inside, it is like the disciples in the gospels, they were outside the Christ Christ was not inside them, they simply were full of their own spirits, in themselves they were natural fallen man, when Christ said, the kingdom of God is like yeast in dough, he is talking spiritually yet at the same time he is talking literally, the spirit works it's way through your whole mind body and soul to fill you with glory of god, as it is written to, be full of the glory of god, if I am full of fear, hate, jealousy and so on then I'm not full of the glory of god, it is a living reality, it seems like this man does not know what he is talking about, he talks worldly not spiritually, he has misconstrued the scriptures, the true worshippers will worship in spirit and in truth, the spirit of god that is within you, not the spirit of man, and when he talks to the breaking of bread, the flesh counts for nothing the spirit is life, it seems to me that there are many so called Christ believers who are born of water, but are not born of the spirit,
I think you missed the point. We are united with Jesus but we are distinct beings as Jesus is distinct from us. That way we can, at one of the same time, be united with Christ, but not always feel it or experience it. The truth that we are united to Christ remains the same. It’s not dependent on us.
@@TomPlantagenetI think he does have a point though, if you think of Scripture like 1 John 1:6-7, if our inward being is not full of the divine life which is the light of men (John 1:4), we are in darkness - "If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth; But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from every sin.” I do think the speaker tended to excessively externalise and this is why it’s important to be specific. We do have a life-Union with Christ which is not dependent on our human condition that is unchanging because we are children of God who have been irreversibly born again. However, if we are talking about the practical and experiential divine human incorporation of “the Holy Spirit who dwells in us” (2 Timothy 1:14), then this is entirely contingent on keeping ourselves with a clean, pure conscience and continually coming to God in prayer.
@@TomPlantagenet no I think you missed my point, if my heart is full of fear then there is no Unity in my heart with the Christ in this, we are not one with the Christ, the Christ said to his disciples, why did you fear you of no faith in this, there is no Unity but neither is their faith, there is a Faith to call on the Christ but apart from this there is no Unity nor the fullness of faith, Faith is a spirit thing within you, Unity with Christ is also a spirit thing within you, Christ said, if you believe in your heart, Christ found Unity with the father because the father was in him, if I am full of fear within me then where is the Christ, I am speaking spiritually about the state of the heart, thus being full of one's own spirit or full of the Holy Spirit where there is complete Unity, thus the scripture, to be transformed into the image of the Christ where there is complete Unity, so if I am depressed, feeling lifeless within me, then there is no Unity with the Christ within me until I find the life of the Christ again, that I should have life within me,
@@TempleofChristMinistries unity with Christ is an attachment to Christ made by the Holy Spirit. It surpasses our moods or feelings. “For when we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself “. (1 Timothy 2:13). Even when we are down-we are United with Christ. That is explained in the video. Hope that helps.
@@ultimatezak I think there is a distinction between union with Christ and walking with Christ. Union is our positional standing in Christ which is something done to us and never wavers. Walking is a day to day affair that has its ups and downs. However, it is important to keep this distinction as the two can get conflated and someone can see Union with Christ dependent upon the individual.
I share that same fear he was talking about that I could believe in Christ and yet still be in my sins. I haven't overcome this mental struggle yet, but I always find help in this channel. I'm glad that you focus on Gospel assurance through theological depth, because it's what I didn't know I needed.
Wow! Perfect timing for me to hear this! Union with Christ is a truth that I have been so overwhelmed to contemplate. It is so profound and wonderful that I could understand someone saying it’s too good to be true. And I feel like I haven’t even scratched the surface in my comprehension of it. Last week I tried my best to present it in a home group gathering and in spite of my inadequacy and as yet limited comprehension of the subject of union with Christ, the Holy Spirit did what I couldn’t and used it to bring an unsaved individual to a decision to come into union with Christ! I’m going to get a copy of Todd’s book! Thanks for this interview!
The words sound pious and mean nothing
@@mysticmouse7261 I have my doubts about it meaning nothing, even if christ were merely a man with good moral teachings, I should think that him willingly suffering the crucifixion and dying in shame for my betterment in the future and for as many people as might find him helpful is worthy of love
but I know of god, the father has made his presence known to me by his influence, so I can definitely say christ died for my sins, as well as yours, as he did for everyone's
god came down to our level without being sinful and being loving, and suffered for our sakes and eternal joy
This is very interesting. I love listening to you all talk.
I've come to think that union with Christ, theosis, deification or what ever you prefer to call it, is one of the central aspects of classical Christianity. You don't fully understand what Christianity is about without it.
In the Apostolic Churches, it is essentially the entire point of the faith. It is odd to me, as an Orthodox Christian, to hear conversations like this. In my tradition, this issue has been settled and universally understood since the very beginning. It makes me wonder what people in the host’s and guests’ tradition have been doing this whole time.
Perhaps the reason why Protestants traditions have lost sight of these things is that the Enlightement ideas distorted our theology in some ways. The Orthodox tradition has been much more resilient in this sense.
@@cassidyanderson3722 😂😂😂😂 Yeah if you say so
@@AnciAlatir You’re probably on to something here. We’ve never experienced a “reformation” nor entertained (what we see as) trivial distinctions made by Protestant theologians. In the East, we don’t have categories such as salvation, justification, sanctification, and glorification - we simply have theosis.
@@cassidyanderson3722It's true that many Protestant traditions neglect the concept of theosis, but the solution is not to go in the opposite direction by neglecting the other ways Scripture speaks of salvation, such as justification (an extremely significant, _not_ trivial, category in Scripture, though admittedly often overemphasized by Protestants). Remember, we are to teach the whole counsel of God, not merely the part of it that our traditions emphasize. The common EOC narrative that "Eastern Christianity is really so simple but all the other splinter groups overcomplicated things and corrupted the faith" simply doesn't line up with Scripture, which has a robust and multifaceted, _not_ one-dimensional, approach to many theological concepts. The EOC has issues just like every other denomination. The key is to learn from one another, not simply point fingers at our brothers' theological blind spots.
What an awesome and edifying topic Gavin! Related to this topic of a hidden union with Christ, I would love for you to do a follow up video exploring the ideas of the Keswick convention from the 20th Century, which had many speakers who explored this topic thoroughly such as Andrew Murray, Jessie Penn-Lewis, William Law. I think this would be so interesting and edifying to see the history of this. Another interesting one would be your take on the mystics and/or the concept of suppression of the self which has often been referred to as "quietism" and was purported by historical figures such as Madame Guyon.
What a beautiful video
I would love more content on Theosis- deification and looking at the orthodox as well as Calvin and others who spoke of that doctrine. And particularly how we as Baptists should view it..
Thanks for your videos!!
Hey Dr. Ortlund, this channel has really blessed me, helping ease a lot of my ecclesial anxiety as well as growing my affection for Jesus! I would love it if you made a video about how to be a better counselor to those suffering from anxiety, insecurity and depression. How we can ask caring questions and lean on the Spirit for the advice we give. I think this goes along with your recent emphasis on friendship in your videos. Or maybe someone can point me in the right direction for a book or resource to help me better help my friends.
Union with Christ is the key to the Bible in my opinion. Great!
“Justification and sanctification, you can’t have one without the other, and yet they are distinct” (19:50).
This is so good. I’ve come to think of justification as the root, which is formal union with Christ, the actual grafting into Christ’s benefits. Sanctification is the material growth of that justifying union with Christ, which is sanctifying. And this has its ultimate end in the resurrected body, which is our union with the material gift of immortality, which is the central aspect of theosis for a creature who remains creature, yet participates in the divine life as God intended in the Garden, but now more supremely as it is a mature and permanent characteristic of one’s nature.
I wonder if we might not think of faith as not only marking a declaration of justification wholly upon Christ’s righteousness, but also as a “power” unto sanctification. As Paul says faith in Christ must bring about a working out of righteousness in one’s life because faith is participation in Christ’s death. This is confession of sin and a turning toward’s life in the way of Christ. To have a living faith is to have this union with Christ and so possess an intrinsic inertia towards sanctification.
Faith as the reality of justification and as the real power of sanctification would ward off both the false Protestant tendency to disconnect sanctification from justification by faith (easy-believism) but also the Roman Catholic error that justification is an infusion of merit/grace into the soul that can be lost and so requires human works of sanctification and the sacraments to get it back (a secondary justification by works).
If faith expresses justification and is the root power of sanctification, based upon Christ’s work and example, then faith and good works are held together, not just by accident, but by the essential nature of faith. And the Lord’s table becomes that place of reconnecting and centering ourselves on our formal union which is from Christ and wholly by grace, which is the root of Christ in us the hope of glory.
Thoughts? What do people think of this notion of faith as a divine gift of a non-meritorious power rooted in a justifying union with Christ?
I think this is very similar to what Todd is getting at with slightly different language. Is there anything faulty about thinking of Faith in Christ as containing an inherent motive “power” for good works without itself being meritorious?
I am glad this topic is being recovered. My reformed friends and I talked a lot about this in college. I think I remember them saying that Calvin viewed it as the most important doctrine. My Bible and religion professor Dr. William B. Evans also wrote a book on this subject called “Imputation and Impartation: Union with Christ in American Reformed Theology (Studies in Christian History and Thought).” I have yet to read it though. He was very interested in this subject and the Mercersburg Theology.
I also want to read Dr. Jordan B. Cooper’s book “Union with Christ: Salvation as Participation (A Contemporary Protestant Scholastic Theology)” for a Lutheran treatment of this issue.
I think it's very valuable to draw out the point that the west isn't actually based on only legalism and transactional understandings of God's relationship with us, as opposed to the East, which has a more mystical view. The west, and Protestantism, has embraced many tenants of that too, and I'm glad more people are becoming aware of it.
One of the better sermons I’ve heard recently was Sinclair Ferguson on Being In Christ. Love meditating on this.
Loved this conversation! *The gentleman in the top right corner of the screen would benefit the viewer if he had a better mic.
Gavin I would love to hear your take on Israel and all that is being said about the end times on it.
"Justification by faith is the hinge on which all true religion turns."-John Calvin
Seth, it is by WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE that we are JUSTIFIED, for even if one has ALL FAITH, but does not LOVE, IT IS USELESS! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
Ignore Matthew-he is a troll and just comes here in bad faith to be divisive. I’ve corrected him numerous times on this passage and others that he uses to flag wave for his Roman church.
@@TomPlantagenet Truth is often ignored I agree! It takes a troll to know a troll! I challenge you and any Protestant to a public debate on RUclips regarding the True Gospel if you are not afraid! You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@matthewbroderick6287Matt, I don’t think you’re debating anyone anything. I shared the true gospel with you over and over and you ignore it. Furthermore, you don’t answer any questions you just say the same thing over and over again. And when you are pressed, you change the subject.
I have the debated you on this page over and over, and I have refuted every argument. You are a bad actor who is in a very dangerous spiritual position. You honor your institution over Jesus Christ Himself. You can only be saved through faith in Jesus and His death and resurrection for your sins. Your good works do not save you, your good works do not contribute to your salvation, your good works do not keep you saved . You are saved by Jesus and Jesus alone or you’re not saved at all. When you add your works to the gospel, what YOU are saying is “Jesus is not enough.”
@@matthewbroderick6287 We are freely justified by placing faith in Jesus as Romans 3:24-25 points out. It is living faith that justifies not dead faith. It is a strawman to say Protestants teach easy believism. The Westminster Confession teaches that it is not a dead faith, but faith working through love (James 2:17. James 2:26, and Galatians 5:6).
$152 for the book on Calvin and Participation is probably because it it out of print. Any plans to re-publish this book?
I enjoyed the video but I won’t lie, I did not completely track the difference that he was trying to establish about Calvin and a legal/forensic view.
Does union with Christ happen prior to Creation?
My main problem with being a Christian is the critical scholarship I learned about in seminary. Kinda puts a dapener on gospels being eyewitness accounts and Paul writing his letters. Any advice?
I sounds like they are slipping deconstruction into seminary studies now. I'd try Cold Case Christianity. He has a great approach. He was an atheist and detective, and he took a forensic approach to the gospels and became Christian. I think it would bolster your faith again. James White is a bible expert from the original languages too.
Keep researching, a lot of the critical scholarship is out dated and being reversed as time goes on. Most of it is old hat from the late 18th to early 20th Century. I read critical scholars all the time and often the reasoning behind it is less than compelling. Luke for example is being viewed as almost pure history by many scholars as it often corrects non Christian historical sources with unknown details. Keep in mind the scholars study the historical record and draw their own conclusions. Other scholars look at the same data and come to the opposite conclusions. What is often taught in seminaries is not current with the scholarship, it’s only what is approved by the school.
47:30. I don't understand. I thought you were suppose to drink and never get thirsty and eat and not get hungry. Yet you're talking about like you're famished?
The other part I don't understand is Jesus said to do it in remembrance of Him. Why is it not in simoly remembrance of Him? Why should I not trust Christ on this topic?
Thanks!
Christ says we abide in Him if we keep the "Law of Faith" (Ro 3:27), and if we abide in Him, He supplies us with the Spirit (1 Jn 3:23,24), because the eternal life is in His Son (1 Jn 5:11), but the *singular* Law of Faith is *twofold* :
1) Believe in the Name of God's Son, and
2) Love one another
"Love one another" is the same as saying "walk by faith", and "walk after the Spirit", because "faith... works by love", so infracting "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" (Ro 14:5) is "sin" (Ro 14:23), but what we do in faith is "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:16,17), like "footsteps of faith" (Ro 4:12), which is what James 2 is talking about, just as Paul says, "if we live by the spirit let us also walk by the spirit", so that Christians who do not "walk after the spirit" die and do not live (Ro 8:12,13), whereas even Gentile Christians, who do not have the Law, but who are under Grace and walk after the Spirit, are qualified as "doers of the Law" who will be "justified" when they are "judged" and "repaid... eternal life" (Ro 2:6-16, 26,27; Gal 6:6-10).
This is how Paul can warn the immoral that God will withhold His Spirit if they live that way (1 Th 4:8), like King David, who said, after committing immorality, "do not cast me away from your presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit from me" (the presence is by the Spirit (Acts 3:19,20), and *only* God's people have His presence (Ex 33:15,16), the marker they are His people--so this is actually an issue and threat of being "cut off from among his people" (Ex 31:14; Ro 11:17-23), or "blotted out" (Ex 32:32; Rv 3:2-6)).
This is also the only way to reconcile "no condemnation for those in Christ [in Whom there is no sin (1 Jn 3:5)]" (Ro 8:1) with the fact that there *is* "condemnation" for the believer who "sins" by doing what he doubts (Ro 14:5,23): by infracting the second table of the *singular twofold* "Law of Faith", the believer isn't "abiding" in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), but is led away by some form of idolatry (1 Jn 5:21), whether it is the "Galatian" idolatry ("this persuasion doesn't come from Him Who calls you" (Gal 5:8) means the false Gospel is a "doctrine of demons" (1 Ti 4:1), and "the idols the nations worship are demons" (Dt 32:16,17; 1 Co 10:20), resulting in them "deserting Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ" (Gal 1:6)) or any other form of idolatry (ie, selfishness--"no covetous man, who is an idolater" (Ep 5:5)).
This is also how the person who doesn't provide for his family can be said to be "worse than an unbeliever", and be said to have "denied the faith": the command is a *singular twofold* command, so sinning against one part is like sinning against the other part, so his practical sin against his family functions like a denial of the Lord, the first table of the Law of Faith, which is why it stipulates, "The one who overcomes will be clothed the same way, in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels".
Why would Christ even raise the issue of confessing them before His Father? "Whoever denies Me before men I will deny before My Father" (Mt 10:33)--the one who sins also is denying the Lord by not representing the Lord before men, since, if he was walking by faith, he would be revealing the Lord in his deeds.
As James says, "I will show you my faith *by my works* --walking after the spirit, sowing to the Spirit, doing good, is the second table of the *singular twofold* Law of Faith, and this is "confessing Christ" with one's deeds, and to fail to do this, to not walk in faith, is like a denial of Christ, and this "unrighteousness" "suppresses God's truth" (Ro 1:18), and does not reveal His righteousness (even if you may appear "blameless" to men, if you are not walking in faith you're not revealing His righteousness (Ro 1:16,17), but, at best, a righteousness of your own based on the knowledge of Good and Evil (the Law (Pp 3:9) being only one form of this)), and it is a "defiling" of one's "garments" (Rv 3:4), and, as God, Who does not change, says, "the one who sinned against Me I will blot out of My Book" (Ex 32:32).
Protestants tend to overemphasize the first table of the Law of Faith, so that the Bible makes no sense, and Old World believers (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox) tend to overemphasize the second table of the Law of Faith, so that there is no stability in the finished works of Christ (and this has been my error and weakness, as well--but I received the grace of prayer through fellowship with other believers, and I have received answers to my prayers), but there is a middle way of emphasizing Christ's finished works, and also recognizing the imperative of not only living by the Spirit but also walking by the Spirit, so that we are not believing some man's interpretation of the Scriptures, but believing ALL of the Scriptures--believing God, Himself.
These gentlemen would probably be fascinated by the doctrine of theosis.
They are fully aware of it and EO wouldn’t say that it’s the same as the biblical reformed understanding of union with Christ.
@@laurasmith4498 We wouldn’t say that the reformed understanding is biblical at all.
@@cassidyanderson3722 Have you watched Gavin’s conversation with an orthodox priest on this topic?
@@laurasmith4498 I don’t think so. I remember his conversation with Joshua Schooping that occurred after Schooping’s apostasy. To my knowledge, he has never had an Orthodox Christian (priest or laity) on his show. Have I missed one?
@@cassidyanderson3722 so you believe that all who aren’t in the Eastern Orthodox Church are outside Christ?
Easy, become Catholic. Praying for you all to return.
Well, considering that the topic of this video is Union with Christ, meaning that we are actually United to God in Christ, I don’t see that there is anything to actually return to. We are in Christ and there is no better place to be.
It appears to me that this man does not have unity in the Christ, I do not have unity in the Christ if I am depressed, The Spirit Within me is not the Christ, in this, I am without the Christ, there is no Unity, if I'm full of my own spirit then in this I am not in Unity with the Christ, I have to be full of the Holy Spirit to have this Unity, that is, the Christ in me, he speaks of someone who is outside not inside, it is like the disciples in the gospels, they were outside the Christ Christ was not inside them, they simply were full of their own spirits, in themselves they were natural fallen man, when Christ said, the kingdom of God is like yeast in dough, he is talking spiritually yet at the same time he is talking literally, the spirit works it's way through your whole mind body and soul to fill you with glory of god, as it is written to, be full of the glory of god, if I am full of fear, hate, jealousy and so on then I'm not full of the glory of god, it is a living reality, it seems like this man does not know what he is talking about, he talks worldly not spiritually, he has misconstrued the scriptures, the true worshippers will worship in spirit and in truth, the spirit of god that is within you, not the spirit of man, and when he talks to the breaking of bread, the flesh counts for nothing the spirit is life, it seems to me that there are many so called Christ believers who are born of water, but are not born of the spirit,
I think you missed the point. We are united with Jesus but we are distinct beings as Jesus is distinct from us. That way we can, at one of the same time, be united with Christ, but not always feel it or experience it. The truth that we are united to Christ remains the same. It’s not dependent on us.
@@TomPlantagenetI think he does have a point though, if you think of Scripture like 1 John 1:6-7, if our inward being is not full of the divine life which is the light of men (John 1:4), we are in darkness - "If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth; But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from every sin.”
I do think the speaker tended to excessively externalise and this is why it’s important to be specific. We do have a life-Union with Christ which is not dependent on our human condition that is unchanging because we are children of God who have been irreversibly born again. However, if we are talking about the practical and experiential divine human incorporation of “the Holy Spirit who dwells in us” (2 Timothy 1:14), then this is entirely contingent on keeping ourselves with a clean, pure conscience and continually coming to God in prayer.
@@TomPlantagenet no I think you missed my point, if my heart is full of fear then there is no Unity in my heart with the Christ in this, we are not one with the Christ, the Christ said to his disciples, why did you fear you of no faith in this, there is no Unity but neither is their faith, there is a Faith to call on the Christ but apart from this there is no Unity nor the fullness of faith, Faith is a spirit thing within you, Unity with Christ is also a spirit thing within you, Christ said, if you believe in your heart, Christ found Unity with the father because the father was in him, if I am full of fear within me then where is the Christ, I am speaking spiritually about the state of the heart, thus being full of one's own spirit or full of the Holy Spirit where there is complete Unity, thus the scripture, to be transformed into the image of the Christ where there is complete Unity, so if I am depressed, feeling lifeless within me, then there is no Unity with the Christ within me until I find the life of the Christ again, that I should have life within me,
@@TempleofChristMinistries unity with Christ is an attachment to Christ made by the Holy Spirit. It surpasses our moods or feelings. “For when we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself “. (1 Timothy 2:13).
Even when we are down-we are United with Christ. That is explained in the video. Hope that helps.
@@ultimatezak I think there is a distinction between union with Christ and walking with Christ. Union is our positional standing in Christ which is something done to us and never wavers. Walking is a day to day affair that has its ups and downs. However, it is important to keep this distinction as the two can get conflated and someone can see Union with Christ dependent upon the individual.