I think Henry and Julian were fucking, Bunny find out and told Henry that he would tell everyone in the academy (so both of them would be out) if Henry didn't do exactly as he said, then he start spending all Henry's money.
Another thing I keep thinking about is how Bunny mentioned she runs around in Charles clothes and a few times Richard even mentioned she look boyish but what we got from her is Richard's male gaze. Give me more of Camilla. How did she cope with Charles? How did she fall in love with Henry? How did she deal with his death? UGH.
jupp, i also kept thinking abt how disgusting it was that when henry finally told him they killed the farmer, all richard could focus on was the group orgy. like ok i get ure obsessed with her, but get a grip, he just admitted to facilitating incest and murder, jesus
A theory I strongly believe in is that Richard exaggerated all the bad things that bunny did. Judging by the letter he sent Julian would he really put himself in a position where the group would have more reason to kill him? I think Richard just wanted us to side with him and he wanted to try and justify what he did to himself.
hahahaha no same!! donna was from the south and went to a private segregated school and then went to vermont where people had REALLLL money so i think she has issues w what is realistic money wise lmaooo
oooo you just made me realise... Richard going to 'medical school' was most probably a lie. We see Richards lies unravel throughout the book, usually because of Bunny's taunts right, but in the beginning of the book we learn that the whole group uses Richard for help when it comes to medical dilemmas because they think he knows best ... but then why when things reach the climax and the tensions are high does Richard call Francis and Henry for advice on what to do with Charles' sickness and fever. You'd think he would know that he needed the hospital. And we see this again when Camilla cuts her foot, he just watches and admits he didn't even think about a tourniquet.. hmm
lmao exactly!!! i also think that’s why he didn’t try to go to the hospital because he had told the others he dropped out of medical school so if he got there and didn’t know anything and couldn’t answer why he didn’t do a tourniquet! i also think that when henry came to richard to ask him to “write out” the equation in his handwriting so that if it was ever found out that bunny was poisoned, richard would have taken the fall
@@dimman77 No you're right He wasn't ! I was more just pointing towards how he should have had more knowledge than the others, even pre med he should have known way more aha
One thing I’ve always thought was that Richard was gay or at least attracted to men? I always think about the moment that he goes into so much detail about how uncomfortable the waiter is with Bunny’s remarks but I think it’s just a projection of his own uncomfortability- also the fact that Camilla is commonly described as masculine and boyish (interesting that he likes her and not a feminine Judy poovey) and Richard even thinks Charles is better looking. I also think he lies about kissing Camilla because he actually did kiss Francis but wants to seem to the reader that he is straight??
There's also in several instances a focus on specifically homosexuality between men throughout the book. Richard takes it into consideration in many seperate scenarios. Like you mentioned in the scene with the waiter Richard thinks of Bunny's homophobia as 'not the kind closeted gay men have', and later on when Bunny is acting weird he thinks something happened between him and Henry in Italy. He also notes his thoughts on the potential gayness in his desciptions of Henry, and mentions it often when talking about Francis. He also talks about how uncomfortable Francis made him at first which is followed by a short scene of Francis making a pass at him and Richard shutting it down. I thought this was an odd aside, seemingly a compulsory nohomo from Richard to the reader. I'm not sure the boat scene happened at all, and if it did, it probably didn't go as Richard told it. Later, after Bunny's death, when Francis starts kissing Richard it's very sudden and with no romantic leadup to it and it's made clear that Richard is out of it because of his intoxication and the aftermath of Bunny's death. He protests but goes along with Francis' advances, which are predatory through this lens. I don't think it happened like that. Since Francis has never let on any attraction to Richard save for the isolated scenes of their first meeting (cubitum eamus) and the boat scene -even with Richards trained eye to gayness around him- it seems out of character for Francis, who is shown to be nervous under pressure, understandably upset at Bunny's homophobic teasing and said to occasionally sneak off at parties with unnamed men, to make such a strong and unhearing advance on Richard at a time like that, without there being some kind of casual hookup history between them. To me at least, it reads as a familiar fling of comfort for both Richard and Francis, edited heavily to play into the heteronormative view of predatory gay men that I think Richard is aiming for within his readers. As for the reason he included it, it might've been to reinstate his own straightness, as he's done so many times before in the book. About the Camilla thing: I think he liked Charles from the start and projected those feelings (and maybe some of his feelings of 'fascination' for Henry) onto Camilla, the person he thinks he should feel all the romantic side of admiration for. He might've genuinely believed he liked her, or he could be using her to write the romantic feelings he felt for others in a straight way, which may have been part of why her character is such a mystery to us. That, or Donna Tartt had a limited perspective on gay men and it was the 90s and this influenced her writing. Idk
Also towards the ending of the epilogue, Francis mentions his getting married which I think overwhelms Richard and he gets influenced by peer pressure to finally confess his feelings to Camilla and ask her to marry him, which she rejects sadly. I think Richard loved Francis truly. Francis made his first phone call too Richard during his supposed " heart attack" I think that's a gesture of love..cause at the moment he needed someone and that was Richard. I wish they'd end up together
If Richard is meant to be a reference to Bret Easton Ellis, who the book is dedicated to, and who Donna dated, this is likely. Bret, at the time, was very evasive about his sexuality, even though his books were full of bisexual male characters. He finally came out as gay in 2022 I believe, but for years he would say he was bisexual, straight and gay depending on who he was talking to, he said he didn't want people to read things into his novels because of their knowledge of his sexuality. He also lied about Patrick Bateman, saying the character was based on his father and, eventually, admitting that Patrick is actually a reflection of him and his anxieties at the time he was writing American Psycho. If Richard is based on him, Donna is extremely perceptive and could see he was someone who, like Richard, would carefully construct myths around himself so people would see him in a way that he is more comfortable with.
a thing I thought about through out the book was how Henry acted and dressed etc. I mean he wore those English suits and carried an umbrella every where he went in the 80s? He didn't even know about the moon landing and didn't take the SATs. He didn't like electricity and you know everything he did was just odd. Even Cloke said to Richard that he thought Henry acted as if he wasn't from earth.
I kept wondering if instead of Henry orchestrating everything, it was Julien puppeteering Henry.. ? Henry even says Julien knew about what they were trying to do, and he even told him the next day, even if he says to Richard he didn't tell him everything who knows. Plus, it always felt too coincidental when Julien would randomly want to chat with Richard about something he was supposed to keep secret for Henry.. almost like Julien was testing Henry to see how well he was controlling/manipulating the others. And for him to up and leave.. while Henry took the fall. weird
I don’t think Julien would allow Henry to go as far as to kill Bunny nor did he expect him to. Both had an equal amount of respect and high regard for each other. He also knew that it was him who planted that seed in Henry’s mind going back to that lecture. Then abandoned the group bc he just didn’t want any part in it.
Gods using humans as their playthings/puppets is a central theme in Greek mythology. Knowing the students see him as god-like (I think there's even a line from Henry that says as such), I think Julian does influence Henry, either subtly or explicitly, knowing he will lead the others.
@@ellarose8696 I took the "do what is necessary" as encouragement for their plan. He knew about their ritual thingy and Henry was probably discussing ideas with him. I don't think Julian supported the murder directly, but I think that he definitely influenced Henry as a result because it enforced the idea in Henry's head that any and everything is excusable if it helps this cause
Hear me out people, I think, that Henry and Juliam were having an affair, Bunny find out, and told Henry that he would tell everyone that, so he would be expelled and Julian would lose his job if Henry didn't give him money. That would have happen even before Richard's arrival, so it made the restaurant scene made sense. Then when the farmer thing happens, he knows it was a wild animal attack for real, but he decides to lie to Francis, Camila and Charles so they would think that they actually kill the farmer, he would make sure that Bunny knew about the farmer, but Bunny was just playing about it, so Henry put his diary on purpose for Bunny to read it, then not only him but Francis, Camilla and Charles would feel the need to get rid of Bunny before he tells anyone. After they kill Bunny, Charles would somehow find out about Henry's plan, he would tell Camilla and she wouldn't believe him, they would fight, that explains the broke mirror, then Camilla would call Henry to tell him want Charles had said, so Henry knew that he needed to get into Camilla's head vy manipulation, so he tells her that he is in love with her can cannot do nothing to get her out of it, that explains why Henry haven't take her out before, he didn't care, but now Camilla was on the way. He also manipulate Richard and yes planned to kill him and Charles, but then, that doesn't matter anymore, Julian left them what made him realise that he killed Bunny for nothing. He kills himself and that would made the last words he said to Camilla "We didn't kill the farmer" she goes a bit crazy about that and she gets depressed not 'cause Henry's dead but the fact that she killed Bunny for nothing and she was being played like a chess figure by Henry...
But then why does Bunny send a letter to Julian explaining the murder? With your theory, wouldn’t he reach out for someone else? And also, Bunny confessed to Richard about the murder, and nothing about Julian and Henry
I think most of this is plausible and I don’t think they killed the farmer but why lie to them and make them think they did? To further their rituals? to bond them by murder? I think Henry and bunny having a relationship of some sort makes more sense but I do think Julian was grooming Henry just to see how he’d manipulate everyone
This version seems to victimize Camilla too much, and makes Bunny out to be horrific when Bunny himself is a boldly queer coded character (albeit repressed) who almost seems homosexual for Henry’s attention. Also, it ruins the genuine friendship Henry and bunny had, which is sad :) it’s a new perspective for sure but it ALSO taints Henry’s relationship with Julian. There was nothing sexual there, Richard perceived it to be sexual bcs he’s not cultured (many cultures have platonic kisses and both Julian and Henry are pretentious/cultured enough about other cultures to mimic their customs). But it IS a new perspective which is impressive
omg you’re so smart and gorgeous.. also I LOVE the theory that the group didn’t actually kill the farmer! I think the references to catamounts/cougars strongly suggest that a wild cat mauled the farmer!
donna tartt said in an interview that the twins weren’t actually named after the Real royal charles and camilla. camilla was named after the warrior maiden in the aeneid which tartt was reading around the time she started writing. very interesting that she ended up naming him charles though, she never gave a reason for that. i do think the twins being named that adds a fun layer though, even if it wasn’t intentional
as much as i love donna, i always take what she and the other famous bennington students say with a grain of salt. she’s not fond of telling the truth hahahaha
@@farooq722 im not sure a link would work but its ‘donna tartt answers 11 questions about the secret history’ by elena nicolaou it should come up when you google that
I've finished the book about a week ago and before I reached that Sweet home Alabama moment I tried to find some fanarts of the twins, so I googled "Charles and Camilla". Then it showed pictures of the Windsors and I was like Wait a damn minute...
11:38 Richard once mentioned how similar bunny and Henry are to a hetero relationship(or something like that) and how similar they are to a married couple. Which suggests to how in greek history, sex/gender is a very fluid idea in relationships. Someone said something in the book like ‘if you’re studying classics, you can’t really avoid (or be against) same sex relationships’(im over simplifying it). So, it doesn’t really make sense how homophobic bunny is unless he was directing it at himself or if Richard was over exaggerating it because of his own beliefs. (sorry if this made no sense, I’m sleepy)
I love this! I believe the farmer thoery. I also think that Henry knew that Bunny would read his journal. He wanted Bunny to find out about the "murder" as a means to convince the others he had to be killed.
for sure. that's why he even chose such an easy Latin substitute name for Bunny. It was just Rabbit in Latin, how cryptic - not. He wanted Bunny to find and read everything and enrage him.
omg yes. He knew about Bunny's tendency to go digging (pun?) through his belongings. You'd think someone so obsessed with their intelligence could think of a better hiding spot than behind a radiator too. Also he might have lied about his migraine, just giving Bunny time to translate. He did recover very quickly
Girl make any book summary video about any book you're passionate about! I'd never heard of the secret history before your video but was so enthralled by your way of telling the story!!
I saved this book for years and just finished it in two days. YOUR FARMER THEORY REGARDING THE WILD ANIMAL BLEW MY MIND! Incredible, amazing, and coming off the back of your three hour video I'm just going to listen to these two videos over and over, thank you SO much for all thos effort.
also the fact henry described offing a person like the only time he felt truly alive... like. girl. bunny knew, he lived with henry long enough ofc he knew
i have so many questions about the nature of julien and henry’s relationship. like that time richard catches a kiss between them (i can’t remember the exact details of that scene rn like if it was on the cheek or who initiated it), or why henry spent more one on one time with julien than the rest of the students. ik its mentioned that julien has a family but is estranged from them, so i honestly wonder if somehow julien and henry were related but they had to keep that fact secret in order to allow henry to be in juliens class???
yes!!! ugh their relationship and what’s hinted at haunts me 🥲 richard saw julian give henry a “quick business like kiss on the cheek” which is soooooo SUS but ok the being related thing??? so smart!!! i never thought of that because it would make sense cause henry DROPPED OUT of school?? and somehow got into hampden! but then once he’s there he takes all his classes with julian who doesn’t get paid by the college so he can do what he wants? so so bizarre but i think it’s more likely he could have groomed henry when he was younger or a freshman and then we’re seeing the tail end of their relationship because he doesn’t go to henry’s funeral or ever talk to him again after he finds out about bunny
There's the very first time Richard goes to see Julien and he just opens the door a crack, like he doesn't want anyone to see inside. Then later Camilla remarks that it was Richard that came to Julien's class when he's first meeting the group after correcting their Greek. Perhaps Julien is having less than appropriate student-teacher relationships with a couple of the students?
@@moeblackx more than that. i remember when henry told richard ( when julian left because he understood that they killed bunny) that , he considered julian as a father figure. that he was everything to him.
i'd love to hear your theories about camilla. in my opinion the book (richard) doesn't let us truly see and understand her. like how would she have felt as the only girl in the classics club, the only girl out of 5 boys to be chosen by richard? was there a hint of misogyny at play? and her relationships, and how much they were affected by charles forcing himself onto her? had she ever confided in the other boys, besides richard, about it, and how did they react to it? did they shrug it off because charles was their dear friend too? and how betrayed camilla would have felt in that moment, to confide in a friend about something that happened to you, only for them to not do anything about it. and the bacchanalia, what happened then, specifically, from her point of view? i need a book just about camila stat ;o;
A theory I’ve had ever since I read the book the first time (spoilers): Richard was the only one who knew where Bunny was when the Classics waited at the hiking trail for him. I bet Richard went to Bunny and lead him to the ravine, but he makes it look like an accident That Bunny arrived - right after Richard did? It seems too much of a coincidence to me. I bet he led him to the ravine, went ahead and instead of telling the Classics that Bunny wouldn’t come, he led Bunny right up to them. Unreliable as he is, I bet Richard would make it seem like a coincidence rather than him having taken part in the plan.
YES!! i always think this considering why would bunny go for a drunk walk by the ravine and leave a huge party where all his other friends where?? if i had to guess richards job was probably to lure bunny there but because there was no proof and nobody left to tell us otherwise, he just omitted that info
Yeah I recently came to this conclusion too! It seems far too much of a coincidence that Bunny would just happen to leave the party and all his other friends to go wandering at that precise moment. I firmly believe that either Richard led him there OR he was following Richard because he saw him going off into the woods and suspected something was going on.
I saw a cool theory that someone said Henry is the embodiment of death. He has a near death experience when he was a child, which prompts his love for literature and languages. Then all the deaths throughout the book are at his hands (with the help of others but still) if we take them at face value. Henry is the one that kills the Farmer, he is also the one that pushes Bunny and then makes sure he'd dead, and even his suicide.
Loved this! As some one who previously lived in Plano: adding to the theory Richard had money, Plano, Tx have a relatively well off population and is a suburb of Dallas, which has oil money. I will say it’s more Great Plains like that desert. Hope there’s a part two!!
THE moment i was convinced henry and bunny were a thing is when they "fought" in henry's room and Richard heard them and then Henry came to him and asked for something in HIS room and explained he couldn't go there because bunny fell asleep and he didnt'want to see him or something. fall asleep after a fight??? i think bunny and henry never were in an official relationship due to their inner homophobia but henry moved on and bunny couldn't so he asked henry for something even after Italy trip again and again. I have a theory the real reason henry decided to k-word bunny is because he didn't know how to cut their relationship so he won't hurt bunny's feelings. it sounds twisted but it's the same logic when people cheat without breaking up except henry couldn't cheat...
I also picked up on Charles and Camilla’s names! I looked up the timeline too cause I didn’t know if their affair was common knowledge at the time Donna Tartt was writing it. And I agree that Camilla didn’t kiss Richard. Their kisses didn’t make sense to me and I was rereading those parts because it came out of nowhere. She never gave any other hints of being attracted to Richard.
and it was never in front of any of the other classics students yet she has no problem kissing charles and being with henry in front of richard so it’s like richard stop lying
My unasked for headcanon is that If We Were Villains and The Secret History are connected via Meredith and Francis being red headed rich cousins (that's literally it lol) I just enjoy the idea of wasted 30-40 something Francis at a new years party overhearing his college age cousin whispering about murder and being like 😶
@@jessicasutcliffe9171 HAHHAA you might not be far off considering francis is briefly mentioned in the goldfinch having went through a divorce after some “scandal” years prior hehehe
I actually don't like the animal theory because it takes away from the supernatural aspects of the novel. I love how the novel casually inserts "out of the ordinary" elements into its narrative. Like how there was some other entity present during the bacchanal, how Richard and Francis saw a mysterious animal while driving. It adds another layer to the novel and makes the whole story so complex. It hints at so many different possibilities. It could be that the supernatural entity took over them and gave them strength to do what they did to the farmer.
oh absolutely!! especially considering the woods where it took place is smack dab in the middle of the bennington triangle which is like the biggest hot spot for paranormal activity in north america, i think she intentionally left it vague so people would wonder
100% agree about the farmer. If Henry had killed him it would have been with his bare hands because they never mentioned any knives or other weapons. Therefore the injuries of the farmer should’ve been more like a heavy beating situation maybe a broken neck. You can’t shred someone open with your bare hands. An animal completely makes sense, possibly Henry’s vague memory of killing the man was actually him trying to get the animal off of the man, the others probably joined in which is how they got covered in blood and how Charles was bit.
Wow, I just watched your summary video this month, and it reminded me of how much I adore The Secret History! I've embarked on my second reading of the book, and I loved it even more this time around. Richard truly is an unreliable narrator, which adds such a delightful layer of complexity to the whole experience, paying attention to the details and holes in his narrative. Thanks for creating this amazing content! Can't wait to see more videos about your favorite books!
This break down was such a fun reminder of one of my fav books! Haven’t read it in years, but I never thought that Julien might have been the 5th person at the bacchanal! Amazing theory!
i always think about how richard tells us he “sometimes” came to the country house and it was always a big deal when he did i’m like yeah bc yall summoning ancient dread LMAOO
I remembered a detail when you were talking about Richard probably not being from California. There was a scene with twins and they were saying “how can you be from California and never been to .... (some place I can’t remember). It was like popular place? Maybe that was a detail too
It was the La Brea Tar Pits museum. I don't know if it's a "must see" for people in California since it's prehistoric animal bones, but it could also be an indication of Richard being an intellectual "poseur". He's not nearly as deeply academic as the group remember, he just used his Greek, which he didn't really even care about, to weasel into the group he was obsessed with.
@@dimman77 Yes, I even remember that he said something like he wanted to be part of the group because Greek was the only thing he was good at and it might a pity to waste the years of learning Greek he already invested. He's always quiet when the other group members talk about ancient authors, their theories and philosophies, or even drop random comments like "my taste in living is quite Hellentic, bla." He didn't care at all about Classics, Greek and so on.
I hope you do a Part 2 because many of these I hadn’t thought of-plus I need all the Secret History content I can get! I feel like it’s such a “love it” or “hate it” type of book so whenever I find my fellow TSH lovers it definitely makes me happy
🚩 Nobody is talking about Charles red flags. Earlier in the book there’s a description about his character being: moody , yet charming , and sometimes jealous of Camila . He drank a lot too. This was a huge red herring to the ending His moodiness and heavy drinking would lead to him going to hospital. His effortless charm with women led him to run away with a married woman across the country. His jealousy against Camila led to his outrage against Henry, hence his death. It’s really hit me looking back so many red flags about Charles’s c character and I believe it was very hard to point out at the time. Charles wasn’t really the most terrible person in the group, mainly Bunny. That’s why it was shock to see how he ended up . I took a life lesson from this book : Know yourself. Know your red flags and learn to overcome them and deal with it because it could cost you your future you never know what it could lead to .
ALSO in addition to the large animal, shortly afterwards, richard is on a drive with either francis or charles (i can’t remember) and this big wild dog runs out into the road causing them to slam on their breaks. and throughout, he mentions a couple times he can hear dogs or animals in the distance- but it’s all very breezed over. I think it could be donna tartt trying to hint at the fact that it was an animal attack?? if not i love this theory anyway
I have never seen you before, but I can already tell that I literally love you sm, girl you are so cool, smart and absolutely gorgeous like omg you really ate with each sentence
Henry and Julian were definitely more than student and teacher,or at least in the modernity sense. In ancient greece sometimes the master and apprentice would get into a relationship for stronger bonds. Which i think would fit two lovers of greek anitquity
The Plano thing is blowing my mind-my eyes glossed over the “California” part and I just always assumed it was Texas. Gotta re-read this book but slower this time
I don't know if you've seen the move Saltburn yet, but I think you would love it! The protagonist is played by Barry Keoghan and he's basically a very Talented Mr. Ripley sort of character in terms of motives, but he also plays out in your theory that Richard is lying about basically everything related to his life. I've seen people on TikTok saying Saltburn right now it's one of the few films that capture the sort of vibe of The Secret History :)
I haven't finished the Secret History yet but I had the same theory that it was an animal that killed the farmer. I think Richard worked a Student job. This was so good. I hope you do more reviews on thrillers. You're so funny.
Richards parents having money is a really interesting one because it just strengthens how Richard warps our view to justify why he was so desperate to be a part of the group and therefore justifying his participation in Bunnys death
I always thought it was so weird that he romanticized ca so much but knew so little about it? Like he romanticized things someone who has never been there would (Hollywood)And you’re totally right l, every time he expresses imagery of home the only place would fit is like a cowtown by Bakersfield or palm springs area
I watched your summary video after I finished the book for the first time earlier this month and it helped me think of a few things. So did this one, love it!
Loved the videos about this book!!! My theory (not really a theory, more like an interpretation) is that I visually picture Henry's mother EXACTLY like Donna. Also, I'm consumed by the lack of information on the love between Camilla and Henry AND Charle's abuse towards Camilla (I don't think it was a love affair)
Here for ALL of the bookish content. Literally whatever floats your goat I could listen to you talk about anything. I’ve never read the secret history but after your plot video I’d love to read it now and just needed to say thank you and you are so lovely and so brilliant!
loved loved LOVED your recap and this vid. Do you have any theories on the bond the students have with Julian. Im just so fascinated by the way he selected them, cut them off from the world, and then dissapeared and left them without any academic alternatives really. Im especially fascinated by the bond between Henry and Julian, because he is always described as the favorite. And in the end (after Julian leaves) Henry basically goes batshit insane. Its like pure addoration from his side. So interresting. Any theories?
i think julian and henry might have been intimate considering richard saw julian give him a “quick business like kiss on the cheek” and we know richard lies about intimacy all the time but i also think julian had peter pan syndrome and used hampden as an excuse to never grow up and live out the same cycle over and over because if he was truly so beloved and known around the world why was he teaching at a sh*t hole college in vermont?
@@moeblackxAlso, is no secret that the Greeks had this believe that teachers and students had to have a strong connection to be able to learn, I find ritualistic that Julian selected his students by being sure they'll become devoted to him. Richard mentions that if they were with any other profesor, the "starting a lock on in school" that Henry said at the beginning of the book will make him end up in psychological test or principal's office. Which makes me thing that Julian knew very fucking well that he was putting ideas into the Greek class that will end up in doing something fuck up. Which would make him technically responsible for bunny's dead, which could be the actual reason he escaped.
I always thought the Charles and Camila thing was really heavy handed, but never took into account that when Tartt was writing the book their relationship wasn’t common knowledge or even confirmed! The context helps structure it as more of a “wink wink nudge nudge” kind of thing.
I took notes as I was reading and from beginning of the book I wrote that Henry potentially setting Richard up. I haven’t finished the book yet I’m at 389 pages. Which taking forever to get through. However my fave book so far. It’s nice to see others having same theories about the book. Also you’re so beautiful ❤And intelligent. It’s def a book I’m going to have to reread to further explore these.
I thought of Charles and Camilla too. 😂 I feel that that Bunny was really testing Richard at the restaurant too. Awesome. I love this video though! I am not done reading but... This is sooooo good.
Finished the book a few days ago and I keep catching myself thinking of it during the day ... like different scenes come to my mind and I think about how they can be interpreted differently, or if Richard might be lying? Or is he too dramatic again? For example in the beginning I felt so sorry about him and his depressive episode when he had to spent the winter like he did. Now I question everything he said and did during this time. Because later on he also had the tendencies to be sooo super dramatic over the smallest of things, even talking about committing suicide and I was like "oooh, come on, Richard. It's not that bad, besides YOU helped to plot a murder and had fun doing so, wtf."
Am I insane for thinking that Richard is a pretty reliable narrator? We know that he romanticized his friends and view them with rose colored glasses but he does knowledge that this is a flaw of his but we have never actually catch him in a straight up lie ya know?
well we don’t know if they’re lies or not because we don’t know what’s going on hahaha he’s telling us a retelling of events from ten years prior but he does get caught in lies & mistruths! one of the most glaring ones for me is the way bunny is described and characterized! he is the only one with friends and a partner outside of the core group so he can’t have been that terrible but also richard is willing to lie to his friends so he is definitely willing to lie to us
I am here for this content. Just finished the book yesterday and I have no bookish friends to rant about it with. My mind is swimming laps rn. Would love to hear you talk even more about it!
One of my theories is that Richard is Jewish since Bunny repeatedly makes fun of Jews in front of him, Richard refers to Hannukah at one point to talk about time passing and he doesn't understand communion.
omgg i love tsh and i love the way you express your thoughts so this is a dream vid! i've been searching for quality discussion on this book since i read it in january and the best i've gotten is the ghost-town reddit and ancient 2000s era blog posts😭 i'm really interested to hear your theories on the little friend and the goldfinch if you've read them/are interested in making those videos! lysm moe
ugh i know i feel like our generation missed peak discourse bc it was published decades ago but tbh i haven’t read little friend bc i’ve been putting off dealing w the themes of racism and the deep south! also full disclosure - i didn’t love goldfinch like in the slightest but would deff do a plot summary bc that book is a BRICK
@@moeblackx i completely understand that on the little friend. the anti black sentiment is pretty pervasive throughout the novel. i feel like the excuse of “accuracy to the times” can only go so far. i’m sorry if my suggestion was insensitive. the goldfinch really killed me and i think the only reason i finished that within a month was because i chose it for a school project and literally HAD to get it over with 🤦♀️ not sure if a book completely wiping a person out speaks very highly of it. i can’t even form a complete analytical thought besides that the prose was gorgeous, which is empty praise considering tartt’s reputation. but yeah! i would love any thoughts you have on any other books, actually. you have good judgement and i love these casual sit-downs. tysm for replying!
great video! I'd love to hear you talk about books some more, I really enjoyed the last video about the secret history! You look absolutely stunning in this video btw
4:50 it seems to me that there were 2 times once that Richard kissed Camilla. After the first time she was puzzled. And then the second time was at the end of the book when they parted. I think that Richard was an accurate narrator and out of all of the characters had a sense of caring for others, being there for others and Did see the negative things that some of his friends had. It doesn’t seem like he was wearing color glasses. It seems like as he went along he discovered more about them. Charles was indeed abusing Camilla.
16:40 Richard did mention when Charles faked some letter in the book that he is really good at forging signatures and forged dr Roland’s signature numerous times for him so he could get more salary than he would have
Hello?! I think I love you???? I have an essay to write about TSH and how the characters are obsessed with the ancient and how that show in the book and this video was so interesting and useful for my reread
just a little fun fact, but there is a podcast out about bret easton ellis and donna tart called "once upon a time at bennington college" and it actually revealed the inspiration for Henry and Bunny (not actually Bret Easton) were actually Todd O'Neal and Matt Jacobsen respectively. Bret was actually just Donnas friend in college (not associated with the greek squad) and helped her get her first publishing deal. Donna ended up basing most of the secret history on the greek squad (Todd, Matt, her boyfriend at the time, and the real julian aka claude fredericks)
I don't know if you mentioned this and I missed it, but I also think a wild animal might have killed the farmer, and they were all just fucked up and thought they did. Later in the book I think it's Richard and Charles (or Francis cannot remember...) driving at night and something that is described like a large cat runs across the road in front of them. Also I really think like others had said that Richard is possibly homosexual. (No shame to that, but it's true he seems unreliable when he denies it so much...especially when he is constantly talking about how Camilla is boyish...and how anxious he seems around other gay people...just a thought I had.) I loved this video though it was so fun!!
I don't necessarily think that these could be categorized as "plot holes". In my opinion Donna intentionally created Richard to be an unreliable storyteller- thus creating a more eary and uneasy atmosphere, so not only the characters feel a sense of confusion and anxiety, but the reader as well.
100% agree! I think they only semi became plot holes as literature evovled and went on, she wrote this in the late 70s and 80s so what were once subtle context clues kind of appearing glaringly obvious with no explanation because for us, its blatantly clear what she's trying to convey but we're just used to it being done in a different way!
7:28 to your point about where Richard comes from. It’s possible she made up a fictitious town in California. And some places in California are arid and hot. Richard outright lies to his friends about his background, making himself seem like he comes from money. He makes it sound like he’s from the LA area.
Giiiiirl!! I just found your channel thru reading the secret history. And it must be fate bc we have the same Harry Potter deathly hallows tattoo in the exact same spot 🫨🫨
i thought for sure richard would've said something about if only he kept the money that he was given by the teacher, i was genuinely kind of surprised when it wasn't mentioned lol
If there's anything i have realized after 1 year of reading the secret history is that all my questions about this damn book starts with henry and most like ends there too. And there's only ONE question that i have probably managed to find an explanation to. A dumb one but still an explanation...... atleast to me
The fact that we'll never know what was truly going on between Bunny and Henry consumes me
like keeps me up at night fr
What about Henry and Julian? I really want to know what happened
@@jamiecaniglia One of my many theoris is that Julian and Henry were fucking (or they did it once at least) and Bunny knew and was jelous
@@violetbaudelaire20wait that actually makes sense except for the jealous bunny part.
I think Henry and Julian were fucking, Bunny find out and told Henry that he would tell everyone in the academy (so both of them would be out) if Henry didn't do exactly as he said, then he start spending all Henry's money.
richard was so delusional when it came to camila, like truly the ken to her barbie. she doesn't care about you bruv!
no fr like ??? ur not that guy
Another thing I keep thinking about is how Bunny mentioned she runs around in Charles clothes and a few times Richard even mentioned she look boyish but what we got from her is Richard's male gaze. Give me more of Camilla. How did she cope with Charles? How did she fall in love with Henry? How did she deal with his death? UGH.
jupp, i also kept thinking abt how disgusting it was that when henry finally told him they killed the farmer, all richard could focus on was the group orgy. like ok i get ure obsessed with her, but get a grip, he just admitted to facilitating incest and murder, jesus
I love it when the narrator is biased and not consistent. Richard is not consistent and he even admits that he is proud of his lies.
A theory I strongly believe in is that Richard exaggerated all the bad things that bunny did. Judging by the letter he sent Julian would he really put himself in a position where the group would have more reason to kill him? I think Richard just wanted us to side with him and he wanted to try and justify what he did to himself.
The thing that haunts me is WHAT THE FUCK DID HENRY WHISPER TO CAMILLA
Honestly THIS
Live Forever (I heard that once, and I accepted it lol)
wait for me
"Don't ever fuck Richard."
@@dimman77 and she took it to heart
everything i watch about this book feels like im drinking wine
okay but why is this description spot on
@@alexdavis360 girlie cuz defining aesthetic is my full time (unpaid) job. Pinterest is my office.
@@oftheearthbutfromthestarsyou're my favorite type of person
the glass just metamorphosizes aha
THIS
I AGREE Richard’s parents HAD to have money!! I was just like “wow inflation’s crazy” the entire time I was reading it 😂
hahahaha no same!! donna was from
the south and went to a private segregated school and then went to vermont where people had REALLLL money so i think she has issues w what is realistic money wise lmaooo
@@moeblackx no she had to ‘cause he had a PART TIME ON-CAMPUS JOB and was all like “ahhh i can repax about money now 😌 “ 😂
Maybe Richard got very little pocket money lmaoo (the possibilities)
thought the sane thing the whole time I was reading the book
but why would he spend that excruciating winter in that warehouse if he had money..
GIRLY IT'S BEEN TEN YEARS SINCE TARTT RELEASED A BOOK WE ARE PROBABLY GETTING ANOTHER ONE SOON.
oooo you just made me realise... Richard going to 'medical school' was most probably a lie. We see Richards lies unravel throughout the book, usually because of Bunny's taunts right, but in the beginning of the book we learn that the whole group uses Richard for help when it comes to medical dilemmas because they think he knows best ... but then why when things reach the climax and the tensions are high does Richard call Francis and Henry for advice on what to do with Charles' sickness and fever. You'd think he would know that he needed the hospital.
And we see this again when Camilla cuts her foot, he just watches and admits he didn't even think about a tourniquet.. hmm
lmao exactly!!! i also think that’s why he didn’t try to go to the hospital because he had told the others he dropped out of medical school so if he got there and didn’t know anything and couldn’t answer why he didn’t do a tourniquet!
i also think that when henry came to richard to ask him to “write out” the equation in his handwriting so that if it was ever found out that bunny was poisoned, richard would have taken the fall
@@moeblackxdamn
I thought he wasn't in med school, just that he dropped out of pre-med after a year to go to Hampden?
He was in premed not medical school
@@dimman77 No you're right He wasn't ! I was more just pointing towards how he should have had more knowledge than the others, even pre med he should have known way more aha
One thing I’ve always thought was that Richard was gay or at least attracted to men? I always think about the moment that he goes into so much detail about how uncomfortable the waiter is with Bunny’s remarks but I think it’s just a projection of his own uncomfortability- also the fact that Camilla is commonly described as masculine and boyish (interesting that he likes her and not a feminine Judy poovey) and Richard even thinks Charles is better looking. I also think he lies about kissing Camilla because he actually did kiss Francis but wants to seem to the reader that he is straight??
There's also in several instances a focus on specifically homosexuality between men throughout the book. Richard takes it into consideration in many seperate scenarios. Like you mentioned in the scene with the waiter Richard thinks of Bunny's homophobia as 'not the kind closeted gay men have', and later on when Bunny is acting weird he thinks something happened between him and Henry in Italy. He also notes his thoughts on the potential gayness in his desciptions of Henry, and mentions it often when talking about Francis.
He also talks about how uncomfortable Francis made him at first which is followed by a short scene of Francis making a pass at him and Richard shutting it down.
I thought this was an odd aside, seemingly a compulsory nohomo from Richard to the reader. I'm not sure the boat scene happened at all, and if it did, it probably didn't go as Richard told it. Later, after Bunny's death, when Francis starts kissing Richard it's very sudden and with no romantic leadup to it and it's made clear that Richard is out of it because of his intoxication and the aftermath of Bunny's death. He protests but goes along with Francis' advances, which are predatory through this lens. I don't think it happened like that. Since Francis has never let on any attraction to Richard save for the isolated scenes of their first meeting (cubitum eamus) and the boat scene -even with Richards trained eye to gayness around him- it seems out of character for Francis, who is shown to be nervous under pressure, understandably upset at Bunny's homophobic teasing and said to occasionally sneak off at parties with unnamed men, to make such a strong and unhearing advance on Richard at a time like that, without there being some kind of casual hookup history between them. To me at least, it reads as a familiar fling of comfort for both Richard and Francis, edited heavily to play into the heteronormative view of predatory gay men that I think Richard is aiming for within his readers. As for the reason he included it, it might've been to reinstate his own straightness, as he's done so many times before in the book.
About the Camilla thing: I think he liked Charles from the start and projected those feelings (and maybe some of his feelings of 'fascination' for Henry) onto Camilla, the person he thinks he should feel all the romantic side of admiration for. He might've genuinely believed he liked her, or he could be using her to write the romantic feelings he felt for others in a straight way, which may have been part of why her character is such a mystery to us.
That, or Donna Tartt had a limited perspective on gay men and it was the 90s and this influenced her writing. Idk
Also towards the ending of the epilogue, Francis mentions his getting married which I think overwhelms Richard and he gets influenced by peer pressure to finally confess his feelings to Camilla and ask her to marry him, which she rejects sadly. I think Richard loved Francis truly. Francis made his first phone call too Richard during his supposed " heart attack" I think that's a gesture of love..cause at the moment he needed someone and that was Richard. I wish they'd end up together
If Richard is meant to be a reference to Bret Easton Ellis, who the book is dedicated to, and who Donna dated, this is likely.
Bret, at the time, was very evasive about his sexuality, even though his books were full of bisexual male characters. He finally came out as gay in 2022 I believe, but for years he would say he was bisexual, straight and gay depending on who he was talking to, he said he didn't want people to read things into his novels because of their knowledge of his sexuality.
He also lied about Patrick Bateman, saying the character was based on his father and, eventually, admitting that Patrick is actually a reflection of him and his anxieties at the time he was writing American Psycho.
If Richard is based on him, Donna is extremely perceptive and could see he was someone who, like Richard, would carefully construct myths around himself so people would see him in a way that he is more comfortable with.
a thing I thought about through out the book was how Henry acted and dressed etc. I mean he wore those English suits and carried an umbrella every where he went in the 80s? He didn't even know about the moon landing and didn't take the SATs. He didn't like electricity and you know everything he did was just odd. Even Cloke said to Richard that he thought Henry acted as if he wasn't from earth.
plot twist henry is dionysus
@@moeblackx HAHAH YEAAHH PROBABLY
I kept wondering if instead of Henry orchestrating everything, it was Julien puppeteering Henry.. ? Henry even says Julien knew about what they were trying to do, and he even told him the next day, even if he says to Richard he didn't tell him everything who knows. Plus, it always felt too coincidental when Julien would randomly want to chat with Richard about something he was supposed to keep secret for Henry.. almost like Julien was testing Henry to see how well he was controlling/manipulating the others. And for him to up and leave.. while Henry took the fall. weird
I don’t think Julien would allow Henry to go as far as to kill Bunny nor did he expect him to. Both had an equal amount of respect and high regard for each other. He also knew that it was him who planted that seed in Henry’s mind going back to that lecture. Then abandoned the group bc he just didn’t want any part in it.
It was also interesting how quick he caught on to them lying in the first days since Bunny's dissapearance
Gods using humans as their playthings/puppets is a central theme in Greek mythology. Knowing the students see him as god-like (I think there's even a line from Henry that says as such), I think Julian does influence Henry, either subtly or explicitly, knowing he will lead the others.
When he says “do what is necessary”… like this was never explaineddd
@@ellarose8696 I took the "do what is necessary" as encouragement for their plan. He knew about their ritual thingy and Henry was probably discussing ideas with him. I don't think Julian supported the murder directly, but I think that he definitely influenced Henry as a result because it enforced the idea in Henry's head that any and everything is excusable if it helps this cause
Hear me out people, I think, that Henry and Juliam were having an affair, Bunny find out, and told Henry that he would tell everyone that, so he would be expelled and Julian would lose his job if Henry didn't give him money. That would have happen even before Richard's arrival, so it made the restaurant scene made sense. Then when the farmer thing happens, he knows it was a wild animal attack for real, but he decides to lie to Francis, Camila and Charles so they would think that they actually kill the farmer, he would make sure that Bunny knew about the farmer, but Bunny was just playing about it, so Henry put his diary on purpose for Bunny to read it, then not only him but Francis, Camilla and Charles would feel the need to get rid of Bunny before he tells anyone. After they kill Bunny, Charles would somehow find out about Henry's plan, he would tell Camilla and she wouldn't believe him, they would fight, that explains the broke mirror, then Camilla would call Henry to tell him want Charles had said, so Henry knew that he needed to get into Camilla's head vy manipulation, so he tells her that he is in love with her can cannot do nothing to get her out of it, that explains why Henry haven't take her out before, he didn't care, but now Camilla was on the way. He also manipulate Richard and yes planned to kill him and Charles, but then, that doesn't matter anymore, Julian left them what made him realise that he killed Bunny for nothing. He kills himself and that would made the last words he said to Camilla "We didn't kill the farmer" she goes a bit crazy about that and she gets depressed not 'cause Henry's dead but the fact that she killed Bunny for nothing and she was being played like a chess figure by Henry...
i love this version you're a genius
WOAH
But then why does Bunny send a letter to Julian explaining the murder? With your theory, wouldn’t he reach out for someone else? And also, Bunny confessed to Richard about the murder, and nothing about Julian and Henry
I think most of this is plausible and I don’t think they killed the farmer but why lie to them and make them think they did? To further their rituals? to bond them by murder? I think Henry and bunny having a relationship of some sort makes more sense but I do think Julian was grooming Henry just to see how he’d manipulate everyone
This version seems to victimize Camilla too much, and makes Bunny out to be horrific when Bunny himself is a boldly queer coded character (albeit repressed) who almost seems homosexual for Henry’s attention. Also, it ruins the genuine friendship Henry and bunny had, which is sad :) it’s a new perspective for sure but it ALSO taints Henry’s relationship with Julian. There was nothing sexual there, Richard perceived it to be sexual bcs he’s not cultured (many cultures have platonic kisses and both Julian and Henry are pretentious/cultured enough about other cultures to mimic their customs). But it IS a new perspective which is impressive
omg you’re so smart and gorgeous.. also I LOVE the theory that the group didn’t actually kill the farmer! I think the references to catamounts/cougars strongly suggest that a wild cat mauled the farmer!
yes!! they probably came across the body tweaking and freaked out hahahaha
donna tartt said in an interview that the twins weren’t actually named after the Real royal charles and camilla. camilla was named after the warrior maiden in the aeneid which tartt was reading around the time she started writing. very interesting that she ended up naming him charles though, she never gave a reason for that.
i do think the twins being named that adds a fun layer though, even if it wasn’t intentional
as much as i love donna, i always take what she and the other famous bennington students say with a grain of salt. she’s not fond of telling the truth hahahaha
@@moeblackx that’s also true! i agree w u there
Can u plz share the link of that interview
@@farooq722 im not sure a link would work but its ‘donna tartt answers 11 questions about the secret history’ by elena nicolaou it should come up when you google that
😂 I think Tartt knew exactly what she was doing when she chose Charles as the brother's name.
I've finished the book about a week ago and before I reached that Sweet home Alabama moment I tried to find some fanarts of the twins, so I googled "Charles and Camilla". Then it showed pictures of the Windsors and I was like
Wait a damn minute...
sweet home alabama LMAOOOOOOO
11:38 Richard once mentioned how similar bunny and Henry are to a hetero relationship(or something like that) and how similar they are to a married couple. Which suggests to how in greek history, sex/gender is a very fluid idea in relationships. Someone said something in the book like ‘if you’re studying classics, you can’t really avoid (or be against) same sex relationships’(im over simplifying it). So, it doesn’t really make sense how homophobic bunny is unless he was directing it at himself or if Richard was over exaggerating it because of his own beliefs. (sorry if this made no sense, I’m sleepy)
I feel like we didn’t unpack bunny’s letter enough and just the fact that he even wrote one
*bunny and Henry def had a sugar daddy-sugar baby relationship if yk what I mean 🤚*
LMAO DEFF
now i wish i could have someone like henryyyy huhu
richard being delulu is so real though
I love this! I believe the farmer thoery. I also think that Henry knew that Bunny would read his journal. He wanted Bunny to find out about the "murder" as a means to convince the others he had to be killed.
for sure. that's why he even chose such an easy Latin substitute name for Bunny. It was just Rabbit in Latin, how cryptic - not. He wanted Bunny to find and read everything and enrage him.
omg yes. He knew about Bunny's tendency to go digging (pun?) through his belongings. You'd think someone so obsessed with their intelligence could think of a better hiding spot than behind a radiator too. Also he might have lied about his migraine, just giving Bunny time to translate. He did recover very quickly
There was a theory like this on tumblr too
Girl make any book summary video about any book you're passionate about! I'd never heard of the secret history before your video but was so enthralled by your way of telling the story!!
🥹 noted bae will do
I saved this book for years and just finished it in two days. YOUR FARMER THEORY REGARDING THE WILD ANIMAL BLEW MY MIND! Incredible, amazing, and coming off the back of your three hour video I'm just going to listen to these two videos over and over, thank you SO much for all thos effort.
:’) angel !!!!
also the fact henry described offing a person like the only time he felt truly alive... like. girl. bunny knew, he lived with henry long enough ofc he knew
i have so many questions about the nature of julien and henry’s relationship. like that time richard catches a kiss between them (i can’t remember the exact details of that scene rn like if it was on the cheek or who initiated it), or why henry spent more one on one time with julien than the rest of the students. ik its mentioned that julien has a family but is estranged from them, so i honestly wonder if somehow julien and henry were related but they had to keep that fact secret in order to allow henry to be in juliens class???
yes!!! ugh their relationship and what’s hinted at haunts me 🥲 richard saw julian give henry a “quick business like kiss on the cheek” which is soooooo SUS
but ok the being related thing??? so smart!!! i never thought of that because it would make sense cause henry DROPPED OUT of school?? and somehow got into hampden! but then once he’s there he takes all his classes with julian who doesn’t get paid by the college so he can do what he wants? so so bizarre but i think it’s more likely he could have groomed henry when he was younger or a freshman and then we’re seeing the tail end of their relationship because he doesn’t go to henry’s funeral or ever talk to him again after he finds out about bunny
There's the very first time Richard goes to see Julien and he just opens the door a crack, like he doesn't want anyone to see inside. Then later Camilla remarks that it was Richard that came to Julien's class when he's first meeting the group after correcting their Greek.
Perhaps Julien is having less than appropriate student-teacher relationships with a couple of the students?
@@moeblackx
more than that. i remember when henry told richard ( when julian left because he understood that they killed bunny) that , he considered julian as a father figure. that he was everything to him.
i'd love to hear your theories about camilla. in my opinion the book (richard) doesn't let us truly see and understand her. like how would she have felt as the only girl in the classics club, the only girl out of 5 boys to be chosen by richard? was there a hint of misogyny at play? and her relationships, and how much they were affected by charles forcing himself onto her? had she ever confided in the other boys, besides richard, about it, and how did they react to it? did they shrug it off because charles was their dear friend too? and how betrayed camilla would have felt in that moment, to confide in a friend about something that happened to you, only for them to not do anything about it. and the bacchanalia, what happened then, specifically, from her point of view? i need a book just about camila stat ;o;
A theory I’ve had ever since I read the book the first time (spoilers): Richard was the only one who knew where Bunny was when the Classics waited at the hiking trail for him. I bet Richard went to Bunny and lead him to the ravine, but he makes it look like an accident That Bunny arrived - right after Richard did? It seems too much of a coincidence to me. I bet he led him to the ravine, went ahead and instead of telling the Classics that Bunny wouldn’t come, he led Bunny right up to them. Unreliable as he is, I bet Richard would make it seem like a coincidence rather than him having taken part in the plan.
It actually adds up because of how he said in the prologue that he was 'partially responsible' for bunny's death
I simply refuse to believe that.
lmaooo
YES!! i always think this considering why would bunny go for a drunk walk by the ravine and leave a huge party where all his other friends where?? if i had to guess richards job was probably to lure bunny there but because there was no proof and nobody left to tell us otherwise, he just omitted that info
Yeah I recently came to this conclusion too! It seems far too much of a coincidence that Bunny would just happen to leave the party and all his other friends to go wandering at that precise moment. I firmly believe that either Richard led him there OR he was following Richard because he saw him going off into the woods and suspected something was going on.
I saw a cool theory that someone said Henry is the embodiment of death. He has a near death experience when he was a child, which prompts his love for literature and languages. Then all the deaths throughout the book are at his hands (with the help of others but still) if we take them at face value. Henry is the one that kills the Farmer, he is also the one that pushes Bunny and then makes sure he'd dead, and even his suicide.
I think Camilla may have kissed Richard to keep him around, to make him want to stay and find out, like a "manipulation"
definitely possible!!! considering it’s conveniently always camilla that comes to find richard when the group wants him
@@moeblackxYup. Henry sends her because he knows Richard is infatuated.
Funny fact that Richard also doesn't have an alibi for the time when famer died
He was with bunny
Loved this! As some one who previously lived in Plano: adding to the theory Richard had money, Plano, Tx have a relatively well off population and is a suburb of Dallas, which has oil money. I will say it’s more Great Plains like that desert. Hope there’s a part two!!
richard lives in plano california not texas
@@timaeustestified73plano California doesnt exist but plano texas does
THE moment i was convinced henry and bunny were a thing is when they "fought" in henry's room and Richard heard them and then Henry came to him and asked for something in HIS room and explained he couldn't go there because bunny fell asleep and he didnt'want to see him or something. fall asleep after a fight??? i think bunny and henry never were in an official relationship due to their inner homophobia but henry moved on and bunny couldn't so he asked henry for something even after Italy trip again and again.
I have a theory the real reason henry decided to k-word bunny is because he didn't know how to cut their relationship so he won't hurt bunny's feelings. it sounds twisted but it's the same logic when people cheat without breaking up except henry couldn't cheat...
I also picked up on Charles and Camilla’s names! I looked up the timeline too cause I didn’t know if their affair was common knowledge at the time Donna Tartt was writing it. And I agree that Camilla didn’t kiss Richard. Their kisses didn’t make sense to me and I was rereading those parts because it came out of nowhere. She never gave any other hints of being attracted to Richard.
and it was never in front of any of the other classics students yet she has no problem kissing charles and being with henry in front of richard so it’s like richard stop lying
My unasked for headcanon is that If We Were Villains and The Secret History are connected via Meredith and Francis being red headed rich cousins (that's literally it lol) I just enjoy the idea of wasted 30-40 something Francis at a new years party overhearing his college age cousin whispering about murder and being like 😶
@@jessicasutcliffe9171 HAHHAA you might not be far off considering francis is briefly mentioned in the goldfinch having went through a divorce after some “scandal” years prior hehehe
I actually don't like the animal theory because it takes away from the supernatural aspects of the novel. I love how the novel casually inserts "out of the ordinary" elements into its narrative. Like how there was some other entity present during the bacchanal, how Richard and Francis saw a mysterious animal while driving. It adds another layer to the novel and makes the whole story so complex. It hints at so many different possibilities. It could be that the supernatural entity took over them and gave them strength to do what they did to the farmer.
oh absolutely!! especially considering the woods where it took place is smack dab in the middle of the bennington triangle which is like the biggest hot spot for paranormal activity in north america, i think she intentionally left it vague so people would wonder
@@moeblackx I didn't know that about Bennington 😯it certainly adds a layer
100% agree about the farmer. If Henry had killed him it would have been with his bare hands because they never mentioned any knives or other weapons. Therefore the injuries of the farmer should’ve been more like a heavy beating situation maybe a broken neck. You can’t shred someone open with your bare hands. An animal completely makes sense, possibly Henry’s vague memory of killing the man was actually him trying to get the animal off of the man, the others probably joined in which is how they got covered in blood and how Charles was bit.
Wow, I just watched your summary video this month, and it reminded me of how much I adore The Secret History! I've embarked on my second reading of the book, and I loved it even more this time around. Richard truly is an unreliable narrator, which adds such a delightful layer of complexity to the whole experience, paying attention to the details and holes in his narrative. Thanks for creating this amazing content! Can't wait to see more videos about your favorite books!
thank you angel 😙🫶🏽 happy to have you! richard truly is such a liar it’s fun to catch him slipping hahahaha
actually, there was/is a Plano California. It's now called Sanborn and is in the desert about 2 hours from LA
9:50 to me, its henry charming richard into trusting him and disliking bunny
same goes with henry saving him from that winter
This break down was such a fun reminder of one of my fav books! Haven’t read it in years, but I never thought that Julien might have been the 5th person at the bacchanal! Amazing theory!
i always think about how richard tells us he “sometimes” came to the country house and it was always a big deal when he did i’m like yeah bc yall summoning ancient dread LMAOO
I remembered a detail when you were talking about Richard probably not being from California. There was a scene with twins and they were saying “how can you be from California and never been to .... (some place I can’t remember). It was like popular place? Maybe that was a detail too
It was the La Brea Tar Pits museum. I don't know if it's a "must see" for people in California since it's prehistoric animal bones, but it could also be an indication of Richard being an intellectual "poseur". He's not nearly as deeply academic as the group remember, he just used his Greek, which he didn't really even care about, to weasel into the group he was obsessed with.
@@dimman77 Yes, I even remember that he said something like he wanted to be part of the group because Greek was the only thing he was good at and it might a pity to waste the years of learning Greek he already invested. He's always quiet when the other group members talk about ancient authors, their theories and philosophies, or even drop random comments like "my taste in living is quite Hellentic, bla." He didn't care at all about Classics, Greek and so on.
I hope you do a Part 2 because many of these I hadn’t thought of-plus I need all the Secret History content I can get! I feel like it’s such a “love it” or “hate it” type of book so whenever I find my fellow TSH lovers it definitely makes me happy
🚩 Nobody is talking about Charles red flags. Earlier in the book there’s a description about his character being: moody , yet charming , and sometimes jealous of Camila . He drank a lot too.
This was a huge red herring to the ending
His moodiness and heavy drinking would lead to him going to hospital.
His effortless charm with women led him to run away with a married woman across the country.
His jealousy against Camila led to his outrage against Henry, hence his death.
It’s really hit me looking back so many red flags about Charles’s c character and I believe it was very hard to point out at the time. Charles wasn’t really the most terrible person in the group, mainly Bunny. That’s why it was shock to see how he ended up .
I took a life lesson from this book :
Know yourself. Know your red flags and learn to overcome them and deal with it because it could cost you your future you never know what it could lead to .
ALSO in addition to the large animal, shortly afterwards, richard is on a drive with either francis or charles (i can’t remember) and this big wild dog runs out into the road causing them to slam on their breaks. and throughout, he mentions a couple times he can hear dogs or animals in the distance- but it’s all very breezed over. I think it could be donna tartt trying to hint at the fact that it was an animal attack?? if not i love this theory anyway
I have never seen you before, but I can already tell that I literally love you sm, girl you are so cool, smart and absolutely gorgeous like omg you really ate with each sentence
STAWPPP ilysm
Henry and Julian were definitely more than student and teacher,or at least in the modernity sense. In ancient greece sometimes the master and apprentice would get into a relationship for stronger bonds. Which i think would fit two lovers of greek anitquity
The Plano thing is blowing my mind-my eyes glossed over the “California” part and I just always assumed it was Texas. Gotta re-read this book but slower this time
I don't know if you've seen the move Saltburn yet, but I think you would love it! The protagonist is played by Barry Keoghan and he's basically a very Talented Mr. Ripley sort of character in terms of motives, but he also plays out in your theory that Richard is lying about basically everything related to his life. I've seen people on TikTok saying Saltburn right now it's one of the few films that capture the sort of vibe of The Secret History :)
I finished the book last week and my biggest question is still WHO FREAKED WHO AT THE BACCHANAL??
I think they all did each other frankly
I haven't finished the Secret History yet but I had the same theory that it was an animal that killed the farmer. I think Richard worked a Student job. This was so good. I hope you do more reviews on thrillers. You're so funny.
thank you love 🤭
Richards parents having money is a really interesting one because it just strengthens how Richard warps our view to justify why he was so desperate to be a part of the group and therefore justifying his participation in Bunnys death
also apparently bret easton ellis is cloke rayburn not bunny hehehe the plot thickens
I want the same book from a different POV every 10yrs.😂
i literally have a richard lie counter in my own copy
LMAOOOO
I always thought it was so weird that he romanticized ca so much but knew so little about it? Like he romanticized things someone who has never been there would (Hollywood)And you’re totally right l, every time he expresses imagery of home the only place would fit is like a cowtown by Bakersfield or palm springs area
I watched your summary video after I finished the book for the first time earlier this month and it helped me think of a few things. So did this one, love it!
happy to have ya here bae 😙🫶🏽
For charles and camilla she said in an interview it was a coïncidence because she named them before the drama
Loved the videos about this book!!! My theory (not really a theory, more like an interpretation) is that I visually picture Henry's mother EXACTLY like Donna. Also, I'm consumed by the lack of information on the love between Camilla and Henry AND Charle's abuse towards Camilla (I don't think it was a love affair)
Francis kissed Richard- according to Richard
and then he said “things progressed” like what do you mean bestie explain 🤭🤭🤭
PLEASE do a part two oh my goad this was so enjoyable to watch!!!
So do you think that Henry, Francis, and the twins genuinely believed they killed the farmer, even though they probably didn’t?
tbh i think henry convinced the others they did but he knew they didn’t
@@moeblackx that would make sense cause he was trying to be the mastermind of the group and he really wanted a reason to get rid of bunny
I would love to see your take on the Goldfinch or theories on The Little Friend!
You are so intuitive!! These theories totally blew my mind
I'm obsessed with the way you think and notice different things
:'''') ilu
I started reading the secret history and I find your videos this past week and I am obsessed with the book and your videos
welcome babyyyy 🔪🏛️📚
Here for ALL of the bookish content. Literally whatever floats your goat I could listen to you talk about anything. I’ve never read the secret history but after your plot video I’d love to read it now and just needed to say thank you and you are so lovely and so brilliant!
your 3 hour video got me into tsh and ive been obsessed with it ever since, im probably gonna watch your if we were villains one right now
loved loved LOVED your recap and this vid. Do you have any theories on the bond the students have with Julian. Im just so fascinated by the way he selected them, cut them off from the world, and then dissapeared and left them without any academic alternatives really. Im especially fascinated by the bond between Henry and Julian, because he is always described as the favorite. And in the end (after Julian leaves) Henry basically goes batshit insane. Its like pure addoration from his side. So interresting. Any theories?
i think julian and henry might have been intimate considering richard saw julian give him a “quick business like kiss on the cheek” and we know richard lies about intimacy all the time but i also think julian had peter pan syndrome and used hampden as an excuse to never grow up and live out the same cycle over and over because if he was truly so beloved and known around the world why was he teaching at a sh*t hole college in vermont?
@@moeblackxAlso, is no secret that the Greeks had this believe that teachers and students had to have a strong connection to be able to learn, I find ritualistic that Julian selected his students by being sure they'll become devoted to him. Richard mentions that if they were with any other profesor, the "starting a lock on in school" that Henry said at the beginning of the book will make him end up in psychological test or principal's office. Which makes me thing that Julian knew very fucking well that he was putting ideas into the Greek class that will end up in doing something fuck up. Which would make him technically responsible for bunny's dead, which could be the actual reason he escaped.
I always thought the Charles and Camila thing was really heavy handed, but never took into account that when Tartt was writing the book their relationship wasn’t common knowledge or even confirmed! The context helps structure it as more of a “wink wink nudge nudge” kind of thing.
I so agree with this!! It always knocks some sense back into me when I remind myself to check the context of the time smth was written/published
I took notes as I was reading and from beginning of the book I wrote that Henry potentially setting Richard up. I haven’t finished the book yet I’m at 389 pages. Which taking forever to get through. However my fave book so far. It’s nice to see others having same theories about the book. Also you’re so beautiful ❤And intelligent. It’s def a book I’m going to have to reread to further explore these.
I thought of Charles and Camilla too. 😂
I feel that that Bunny was really testing Richard at the restaurant too. Awesome.
I love this video though! I am not done reading but... This is sooooo good.
Loved hearing about so many Easter eggs I never picked up on!!
Finished the book a few days ago and I keep catching myself thinking of it during the day ... like different scenes come to my mind and I think about how they can be interpreted differently, or if Richard might be lying? Or is he too dramatic again?
For example in the beginning I felt so sorry about him and his depressive episode when he had to spent the winter like he did. Now I question everything he said and did during this time. Because later on he also had the tendencies to be sooo super dramatic over the smallest of things, even talking about committing suicide and I was like "oooh, come on, Richard. It's not that bad, besides YOU helped to plot a murder and had fun doing so, wtf."
Omg the animal was the mountain lion cat thing... I feel like its reiterated with the cat and scratches that Charles got.
Am I insane for thinking that Richard is a pretty reliable narrator? We know that he romanticized his friends and view them with rose colored glasses but he does knowledge that this is a flaw of his but we have never actually catch him in a straight up lie ya know?
I think he’s unreliable because of the clear bias he has towards his friends but I don’t think he’s a pathological liar.
well we don’t know if they’re lies or not because we don’t know what’s going on hahaha he’s telling us a retelling of events from ten years prior but he does get caught in lies & mistruths! one of the most glaring ones for me is the way bunny is described and characterized! he is the only one with friends and a partner outside of the core group so he can’t have been that terrible but also richard is willing to lie to his friends so he is definitely willing to lie to us
Bunny knew about Charles and Camila, I believe that was the hold he had over Henry. - prior to everything else, of course.
I just found your channel and absolutely love this video and hearing you talk! Definietly will continue watching!
I am here for this content. Just finished the book yesterday and I have no bookish friends to rant about it with. My mind is swimming laps rn. Would love to hear you talk even more about it!
One of my theories is that Richard is Jewish since Bunny repeatedly makes fun of Jews in front of him, Richard refers to Hannukah at one point to talk about time passing and he doesn't understand communion.
omgg i love tsh and i love the way you express your thoughts so this is a dream vid! i've been searching for quality discussion on this book since i read it in january and the best i've gotten is the ghost-town reddit and ancient 2000s era blog posts😭 i'm really interested to hear your theories on the little friend and the goldfinch if you've read them/are interested in making those videos! lysm moe
ugh i know i feel like our generation missed peak discourse bc it was published decades ago but tbh i haven’t read little friend bc i’ve been putting off dealing w the themes of racism and the deep south! also full disclosure - i didn’t love goldfinch like in the slightest but would deff do a plot summary bc that book is a BRICK
@@moeblackx i completely understand that on the little friend. the anti black sentiment is pretty pervasive throughout the novel. i feel like the excuse of “accuracy to the times” can only go so far. i’m sorry if my suggestion was insensitive.
the goldfinch really killed me and i think the only reason i finished that within a month was because i chose it for a school project and literally HAD to get it over with 🤦♀️ not sure if a book completely wiping a person out speaks very highly of it. i can’t even form a complete analytical thought besides that the prose was gorgeous, which is empty praise considering tartt’s reputation.
but yeah! i would love any thoughts you have on any other books, actually. you have good judgement and i love these casual sit-downs. tysm for replying!
@@beeatopia6 not insensitive at all babe don’t worry 😙
please do part two!!! i love this
great video! I'd love to hear you talk about books some more, I really enjoyed the last video about the secret history! You look absolutely stunning in this video btw
thank you so much angel face
4:50 it seems to me that there were 2 times once that Richard kissed Camilla. After the first time she was puzzled. And then the second time was at the end of the book when they parted. I think that Richard was an accurate narrator and out of all of the characters had a sense of caring for others, being there for others and Did see the negative things that some of his friends had. It doesn’t seem like he was wearing color glasses. It seems like as he went along he discovered more about them. Charles was indeed abusing Camilla.
I LISTEN TO THE AUDIOBOOK TO GO TO SLEEP TOO! Smth about Tartts voice is so perfect…
I LOVE TSH SO MUCH BECAUSE IT PROMPTS DISCUSSIONS LIKE THIS SDFGHJKL
RIGHT the best i swear
16:40 Richard did mention when Charles faked some letter in the book that he is really good at forging signatures and forged dr Roland’s signature numerous times for him so he could get more salary than he would have
Omg I just clicked on this video and I loveee your vibe and content!!
I noticed the Charles and Camilla association too!!! Thanks for making me feel v smart lmao
it's 3am and i don't need sleep, I NEED ANSWERS
me at all times
Hello?! I think I love you???? I have an essay to write about TSH and how the characters are obsessed with the ancient and how that show in the book and this video was so interesting and useful for my reread
Loved your video
just a little fun fact, but there is a podcast out about bret easton ellis and donna tart called "once upon a time at bennington college" and it actually revealed the inspiration for Henry and Bunny (not actually Bret Easton) were actually Todd O'Neal and Matt Jacobsen respectively.
Bret was actually just Donnas friend in college (not associated with the greek squad) and helped her get her first publishing deal.
Donna ended up basing most of the secret history on the greek squad (Todd, Matt, her boyfriend at the time, and the real julian aka claude fredericks)
yup!! we talked about that in another video
that is why it's called The Secret History... IT'S FULL OF SECRETS!!!
I don't know if you mentioned this and I missed it, but I also think a wild animal might have killed the farmer, and they were all just fucked up and thought they did. Later in the book I think it's Richard and Charles (or Francis cannot remember...) driving at night and something that is described like a large cat runs across the road in front of them. Also I really think like others had said that Richard is possibly homosexual. (No shame to that, but it's true he seems unreliable when he denies it so much...especially when he is constantly talking about how Camilla is boyish...and how anxious he seems around other gay people...just a thought I had.) I loved this video though it was so fun!!
I don't necessarily think that these could be categorized as "plot holes". In my opinion Donna intentionally created Richard to be an unreliable storyteller- thus creating a more eary and uneasy atmosphere, so not only the characters feel a sense of confusion and anxiety, but the reader as well.
100% agree! I think they only semi became plot holes as literature evovled and went on, she wrote this in the late 70s and 80s so what were once subtle context clues kind of appearing glaringly obvious with no explanation because for us, its blatantly clear what she's trying to convey but we're just used to it being done in a different way!
7:28 to your point about where Richard comes from. It’s possible she made up a fictitious town in California. And some places in California are arid and hot. Richard outright lies to his friends about his background, making himself seem like he comes from money. He makes it sound like he’s from the LA area.
I can’t watch it right now but I’ll be back tomorrow to give it a watch. Keep up the good work.
🥹🫶🏽 see ya tomorrow angel tysm
Giiiiirl!! I just found your channel thru reading the secret history. And it must be fate bc we have the same Harry Potter deathly hallows tattoo in the exact same spot 🫨🫨
i thought for sure richard would've said something about if only he kept the money that he was given by the teacher, i was genuinely kind of surprised when it wasn't mentioned lol
If there's anything i have realized after 1 year of reading the secret history is that all my questions about this damn book starts with henry and most like ends there too. And there's only ONE question that i have probably managed to find an explanation to. A dumb one but still an explanation...... atleast to me
@@deadpoet4034 share with the class 🙂↔️