Josh Barnett on the under-appreciated art of catch wrestling in MMA | UFC Hamburg
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Former UFC heavyweight champion Josh Barnett chats to Simon Head about his catch wrestling background and how effectively it can be applied to mixed martial arts.
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It's so annoying as a Brit that a style of wrestling that is native to our soil isn't taught in schools. I'd have gone to catch wrestling classes in a heartbeat during my high school days if it was actually available! Thankfully, guys like Josh Barnett are keeping the art alive and relevant in a modern combat arena.
you know that the original snake pit in Wigan is still active as well as Lanchashire catch.
added to bucket list.
Jon Dyer I know but it's such a niche thing. I just wish it was as widespread as Greco-Roman or Freestyle wrestling like in America.
Jez Creed that would be cool, but I can't ever see it happening.
If catch wants to get a lot of attention, then they need to get some competitors tearing up the ADCC and other sub grappling competitions.
There is also infighting between the small groups which are teaching, such as "my style is real yours is fake, etc".
Fucking lame if you ask me.
The Japanese scene I heard is pretty cool and I will be checking them out personally in less than a month.
Freestyle wrestling IS amatuer catch wrestling. lol
Grappling is grappling is grappling.
Always keep an open mind.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻👊🏻🤙🏻
Love is love, Carlton. Don't let genital preference cloud your judgement..
I like catch-as-catch-can, sambo, pankration, judo, BJJ all have effective techniques in my opinion it's the brilliance of a person who can blend them to become a monster on the mat.
during his prime Sakuraba beat four of the Gracies in their prime using catch Wrestling against their BJJ, they were considered unbeatable at the time, its a shame Sakuraba carried on with a beat up body when he should have retired.
That's why Sakuraba was then known as the Gracie hunter.
And he wasnt 100% CACC. Catch in its pure form is complete destruction.
@@Primetome he basically was. Billy robinson said he was pure catch
Other people could have done the same, Wand comes to mind. Definitely an overrated feat. Had to screw Mezger and Shamrock (mates from Catch Wrestling) to get to Royce, and lost to guys like Arona and that Elvis from BJJ, Nilo I think is the name. Also Nog, but there is the size. But then again, he also had size advantage over Royler ...
seems like catch didnt save him from a beating in the process...meanwhile renzo still healthy enough to throwdown in a NY subway
People need to realize that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is not the only the be all and end all in MMA grappling.
+david campbell No one ever said BJJ is the end all be all. The facts showed that BJJ is the prominent grappling style in MMA for a *REASON*. Most BJJ guys *BEAT* other grappling styles... *INCLUDING* what is now called "Catch" wrestling but used to be called other names. Really. Please try to come up with someone *OTHER* than Kazushi Sakuraba and Josh Barnett. I'll wait.
Well yes they have. If you ask most BJJ practitioners they will tell you BJJ is all you need. When It is clear that wrestling is the superior Grappling art,of today's current 11 UFC champions there are only 4 with BJJ backgrounds as opposed to 7 that use wrestling as there grappling base making wrestling the prominent style based on the current evidence.
Just to add to my previous point I was just looking, out of the 17 Heavyweight UFC champions only 5 have legitimate BJJ backgrounds the other 12 were/are Wrestlers.
+david campbell ". If you ask most BJJ practitioners they will tell you BJJ is all you need." Pure nonsense. Name one BJJ practitioner in either MMA or grappling who said BJJ is "all you need" *OTHER* than possibly Royce Gracie decades ago. Name one.
+david campbell Again, these were great collegiate wrestlers who *ALSO* trained a lot in BJJ as well as striking. Next?
Catch Wrestling is what you should train if you are a high school or college wrestler.
What a reasonable, well spoken man, much more professional and eloquent than I generally expect from professional fighters. I guess that's one potential difference from pursuing a fighting style that doesn't entail habitual brain trauma.
"[Olympic] Wrestlers should definitely learn Catch Wrestling".
Well said. Especially Freestyle wrestlers should learn Catch wrestling for MMA and submission grappling tournaments. These 2 sports fits each other extremely well. It's like a perfect continuum because you don't have to "unlearn" anything from your Freestyle base, rather use all that knowledge and experience as a strong base to built on.
What's the difference between "normal" wrestling and catch exactly?
Hamza Shukri, Catch as catch can matches are won by pin or submission. So they have the strong takedowns, pins and riding control of folkstyle or freestyle wrestlers combined with submissions. They tend to favor neck cranks over chokes and have a nastier approach to submission fighting than bjj. In Bjj things that are frowned upon, like putting your elbow on a guys jaw and posting on it, are encouraged and considered essential technique in catch wrestling. In Bjj being on the bottom is no big deal, in cacc you punish the guy on the bottom by making him carry your weight and grinding into him. Plus, unlike Bjj, Catch wrestlers won't play guard and will work to get to their feet. Frankly, for wrestlers, catch wrestling is better for MMA. Bjj is still great though and has its place and everyone should be familiar with it because guard work is essential, but catch wrestling fits with other styles of wrestling much better for MMA fighters with a wrestling background.
it would still be good to watch ducking the head due to front chokes tho. also I don't think Greco would benefit from Catch as much tho. Judo might be a better Greco fit. of course it depends on what you are doing with your training!
I'm 14 and have been wrestling for almost 2 years. I wish I could find a catch gym where I live. It's really so difficult to find any grappling art other than jiujitsu and judo.
...It's not called Normal.
It's called Amateur Wrestling.
And the funny history to that name is because Professional Wrestling is what should have been the sport if it's didn't go the scripted route due to its Carny roots.
Catch Wrestling 's old form wasn't just subs and holds...it's gouging, fishhooks, grabbing the ears, smothering, biting, kicking, stomping, punching, kneeing, elbowing, headbutting, throwing, slamming, tripping and everything the human body can do without the assistance of a weapon.
In fact, their wrestlers hade three types of names "Stretchers, Hookers and Shooters."
Stretchers loved to try and separate your bones.
Hooker's caught any limbs and proceeded to work on it until it broke and would constant shift it's targets.
Shooters loved to shoot in, takedown and make them very uncomfortable while trying to torture them.
This was what true Pro-Wrestling was supposed to be like...but because it went through the carnival life and the performers wanted to do it for long, it evolved into the stunt man, male soap opera it is today to preserve their bodies cause a real Professional wrestling fight would have always mangled the other guy beyond repair. - They saw that as a shame because imagine how many great matches he could have fought if not for the irreparable damage.
So Olympics style took Greco-Roman wrestling that the Americans ended up calling it Amateur Wrestling because it only allows slams and pins, no subs, not strikes, no inducing pain, no bone separating or rending and no choking to sleep.
So technically Amateur Wrestlers learning Catch are just completing the art to finally make it the real form.
the way he handled dean lister and frank mir shows what is up. sakuraba making a joke of the entire gracie legacy beating 4 of them also shows what catch is.
Michael James Don't forget about Mega Megu.
yeah, she is bad ass
Plenty of examples of BJJ guys beating catch wrestlers too. Golden Ryan tapping Josh Barnett...
They’re both great grappling arts. Learn everywhere and take what works for you.
Pancrase in Japan especially in the 90's was the first time I was exposed to Catch. Sakuraba was the Catch Master in Pride FC...just ask the Gracie's .
If you know all the grappling arts, it is clear that catch wrestling is the best for combat and self defence.
I don't really see that. in self defense you really can't control what your opponent is wearing and unless you make a habit of walking about in a speedo you might not be wearing clothing convinent for no-gi grappling either. I have a strong preference for no-gi but I recognize that being able to grip at my opponents clothing if the option exists may be a very useful skill.
to be fair in a self defense situation usually at least one person will be untrained and anyone who trains in anything is going to smash some fool with a chip on their shoulder......
like "blood of patriots" he would get destroyed by anyone that actually trains.
Nahhh man...freestyle wrestling is the best for self defense..jsut look at yoel romero,khabib,daniel cormier,etc
@@dondawati4345Why don't you look at where freestyle came from speenboy
lord you guys are arguing like children. I am a wrestler that has a 2nd degree Dan in Judo, but I love BJJ but my bread and butter is catch wrestling. They all have good things and bad things. Use what works.
I think most people on here are commenting on the fact they would like to see more catch. BJJ has risen in popularity because basically it is the only game in town. Judo especially in Japan has turned out many good grapplers who entered MMA but hasn't the rule set negated much of the ground work?
Amen bro
@Mitch if you can I'd learn catch over judo, judo is more of a street fighting art than a technical art (not to say judo isn't technical the throws are beautiful it's just not really effective in places like mma) judo is probably the worst sole grappling art to train in my opinion
@@liamdoes8580 That's because of the Olympics. Watered it down.
@@liamdoes8580 how is it a street fighting art?
It’s hard to find a place that teaches catch wrestling. That’s why. It’s just not as accessible.
Josh always displayed his ability to interchange, very diverse fighter a true mix martial artist.
Billy Robinsons students are the most respected fighters of all time
Barnett
Sakuraba
Suzuki
Paulson
It is under-appreciated because you need to be very intelligent and versatile to use it, it requires split second adaptation and a willingness to take risks on your offense. Other grappling styles are passive in comparisson and require specific set-ups, they are effective, but undoubtedly less free-form.
I have to agree. Catch is great but unfortunately not allot of gyms or instructor for catch.
Kimura was a Catch Wrestler & Judoka. Defeated Helio Gracie with double wrist lock. Broke arm. Gracies adopted double wrist lock from Catch y renamed it the Kimura.
so?
Josh is spot on with everything he said in this clip.
Josh Barnett would be a great UFC commentator
I love Josh, he's the man.=D
Good interview...excellent answers.
Why doesnt catch grow and why doesnt catch enter into no gi tournies if its so effective. I just dont get it.
It does. You're just not paying attention.
+twice_baked potato Not only is catch rarer, but most people who have trained only in it just have not found a way to make it work against BJJ in either grappling or MMA.
All of the people who claim that catch is superior to BJJ *CAN NOT* offer any examples beyond Josh Barnett (who despite not having formal classes in BJJ, *DOES* have BJJ experience in training) and Kazushi Sakuraba.
They will *CLAIM* that Barnett and Saku are the only two because catch is "rare" but that's *NOT* true, there have been *A LOT OF PEOPLE* in catch over the years who haven't done well against BJJ.
nthn Bjj IS better for no gi grappling, but cacc guys will smoke bjj guys under their rules. Cacc guys will get thrown off when they are placed in the guard. That said for MMA, I'd argue that catch is actually better, particularly for wrestlers. Obviously a cacc based MMA fighter will need to grapple with Bjj guys to get a feel for it and learn how to use cacc for MMA. Learn as much as you can about all the arts. Cacc is basically folkstyle wrestling with grinding and some pretty aggressive submissions. The submissions in Bjj and cacc are the same, but the emphasis is different in each art. Forget the name Catch as catch can. Just think, is wrestling with a very heavy top game and unrelenting pressure coupled with submissions mainly used after wearing a guy out or breaking him mentally, a valid strategy? That is all cacc is. Outwrestle the opponent, wear them down, make them uncomfortable and then make them tap.
Francesco g. because saying "my style is best" is way easier then proving it :P I'm a fan of Catch in general but the people that have to defend it like it's their child and no one may question it are a bit embarrassing really. in traditional catch you can win via pin. that is not realistic. pinning someones shoulders to the mat for a second is really NOT the same as defeating them.....
It's a wonder why people with 1 rule set don't do as well as others under a different rule set with people who know how to exploit said rules.
Catch is King
? MMA champions with Catch as a base right now? ..... I think we on zero? how is it the king? Wrestling is likely the strongest base but not necessarily Catch Wrestling, I am yet to see a Catch based guy get takedowns as well as a pure Wrestler...
Sakuraba and Josh barnett dominated the mma scene, also against wrestlers and bbj practitioners. it not because no one NOW in mma practices it that it's not king, it's just not taught... there are 0 schools in Belgium for example, but BJJ is everywhere... so what does that make..
right we aren't taking about reasoning tho, if Catch was really king it wouldn't need to be used by many people to still put champs in big name orgs. theoretically catch is very strong because it combines takedowns and submission work with a focus on nogi so it SHOULD be ideal but it does not really workout that way for the most part.
if we going back to Barnett and sakuraba dominating I will just go farther and point to Royce so that argument is meaningless. gotta get something more current.
if catch was really king there would be more schools of it. BJJ schools don't just happen they occur because there is demand. Catch has done an absolutely terrible job of marketing itself from basically back in the 1900's depending on how you look at it.
My problem isn't that people thing Catch is good because it IS my problem is Catch is about nobullshit and proof, and you don't say things like Catch is King and have no champion to point to going back like half a decade or more....that is nonsense. anyone can toss a claim out there, toss a fact instead. Barnett did well in Metamoris but out of two matches one was a guy who normally makes weight of 185 not heavyweight and the other guy had late notice and was not planning on competing in a 'title' match.
To be honest there is more evidence that Judo/Sambo is king then Catch.....
I became a catch fan when, I watch Sakuraba spanking Gracie in Po ride in their first match, and I meant literally spanking him and right after he followed that up with Renzo. then Royce went and juiced up in their second match and was given the fight.
+Carlos Alfonso What you just said right there is one of the major reasons why "catch" is considered to be underappreciated. The *HUGE* problem was that Sakuraba and Barnett were the only two "catch" fighters in MMA who were worth anything. Erik Paulson, Barnett's buddy, was just as much as BJJ guy as a "catch" guy, so he doesn't really count.
Do you realize this? Sakuraba had a lot of training partners and they all mostly failed. "Catch" has had a lot of fighters over the years who mostly flopped, or didn't reach the success of Barnett and Sakuraba. *ONLY TWO* prominent fighters don't count. Sorry.
+carnivalwrestler Randy Couture turned to catch, what, *VERY LATE* in his career? Didn't we see his son get subbed by a BJJ guy sometime ago? "
"However, be warned that this isn't (IMO) typical of bouts between catch and bjj opponents. Usually the bjj guys do a lot better than Lister did and they aren't totally dominated as Lister was." And more often than not when there is a winner it's usually the bjj guy. Josh Barnett is a great grappler who knows how to use his size against someone.
Great job of proving my point about Sakuraba.
Facts are very stubborn things.
Yes, before that Couture just used wrestling slams, punching, folk wrestling takedowns, and ground and pound. He only had two submissions before he studied catch.
You are the one who can't accept facts. Nothing you said or that I said or that happened in reality proved your point. You Gracie nuthuggers just can't accept reality. During the early years of UFC (controlled by the Gracies) and for many years after, all you heard was "Bjj is all you need." And "you can't possibly win a fight against multiples or against someone with a weapon," "90% of fights go to the ground," and "a grappler can force a fight to the ground every time," and other Gracie propaganda and lies, just so they could make more money.
Then MT guys came in and started kicking bjj butt. And, lol, Royce in his 90 minute fight with Sakuraba spent much of the time kicking, kneeing, and punching (to no avail).
And of course, no one has ever been KO'd in the UFC or any other MMA organizations because they were all forced to the mat and submitted by someone with better BJJ skills.
And there are possibly hundreds of videos of real people taking on multiples and winning decisively, but it's because they're trained boxers, not grapplers. Oh no, that can't be, it must be Photoshopped, because any BJJ expert will tell you that you can't possibly defend against multiples, so just shrug your shoulders and run when two or three guys attack your girlfriend.
And there have been stories in the news of at least two gun disarms (followed by proper beatings) by MMA guys. And there have been thousands of gun disarms and knife disarms, many performed by people with no particular training, as well as by people trained in traditional martial arts. But that can't be, just ask a Gracie.
Everything that Barnett did to Lister, every second of that fight was technical catch wrestling: knee rides, toe holds, shin rides, face locks, neck cranks, cradles and half cradles, etc. Just because you don't recognize what you're seeing doesn't mean that it's not happening, and what Barnett did with Lister was truly a catch wrestling clinic and had very little to do with his size, it was his technique that won that fight.
As I said (and which you studiously ignored), catch wrestling is a rare art, but it is a great art. You don't find many in the UFC because not many exist in the first place. We can sit here and argue forever about the merits of the differing styles, but I say choose one art and get proficient in it, but get at least two or three years in the other so you'll know what you're up against.
Thank you, for your comment . I could not have said it better.
You're certainly welcome.
Catch was unstaged then staged then unstaged. That is some of why it is less popular. Also no belt structure. This is my humble opinion.
There seem to be BJJ schools everywhere but not many catch wrestling places …am I wrong ? I go to a Gracie BJJ school but I’d also love to learn some catch wrestling too.
well said!
Catch is the best!
catch and bjj, luta livre, even judo are all the same, just with different rules.
i'd say the leglock game came from catch ,because they were legal ,while in BJJ they were illegal or forwned upon for a long time
Dude is intelligent!
I do bjj in a GI but would love to do catch but the closet gym is like 3hrs away
Gotta have wrestling to get your juijitsu game moving ,ask brian ortegas face,holloway used him for a punching bag ,when ortega would have destroyed him if he could have got his hands on him problem was he couldnt...
Can CACC ever regain the popularity it had before television ruined it ( transforming CACC from competition into theatrics instead )?
I think because of MMA there is already a greatly renewed interest. It could become more popular.
not likely but it actually was theatrics before the introduction of television. Catch is often called Carny Style because Carnivals would have Wrestlers and they would call out to the crowd for challenge matches. For the most part the Carny worker was far in excess of the folk coming from the crowd but things did happen that way and so they developed the idea of plantning someone in the crowd to come forward. over time this evolved into scripted matches.
Legend
Josh has the best elbows from the bottom that I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen a ton...
For a pro wrestler my boy Josh here stumbles a bit lol love ya mate
I wish catch wrestling was more prominent today in the UK rather than the imported mcdojos
He looks so slim
Catch Wrestling is much better than Jiu Jitsu
based on what exactly?
Sakuraba 4 gracie 0 😂
its way more offensive
How so ?
Dos Santos vs Carlos gracie
Common its all rhe same there are grapplers and there are strikers thats it differenz is just the rules and the techniques but both has the same goal knockouts or takedowns and submissions
Catch wrestling is good but it's association with pro wrestling ruins it for me. You can't talk to a catch guy for long before he mentions Japan/tiger mask/shoots etc. That stuff is for kids
cacc has to get some schools/academies. there's no place to learn it which is unfortunate because it looks like it could be argued that cacc could be the most useful martial art discipline of all and almost nobody even knows about it.
i like Barnett, but he does jiu-jitsu. farmer burns never put somebody in his "guard."
Josh Barnett reminds me of Robin Williams. Similar mannerisms.
is Judo with some incorporations of other styles, most all grappling styles are born of traditional wrestling and of Judo, I still love Sakuraba just embarrassing the Gracies and really BJJ overall, well and Josh also showing Catch beating a Gracie. The UFC tried so hard to push BJJ to the front and it is great, but like all styles it has faults, even Eddie Bravo proved it doing things that confused traditional BJJ, amazing match btw lol.
"The UFC tried so hard to push BJJ to the front" Because BJJ was and is the dominant style of submission grappling. Royce Gracie beat two catch wrestlers for example.
Eddie Bravo still did a modified BJJ
Sakuraba still got subbed by other BJJ fighters like Cabral and Miller. And he got subbed a few years ago in competition by BJJ guys.
RUFINO DOS SANTOS...
Sakarubu known as the Gracie killer used catch wrestling to beat Royce Gracie and 2 of his brothers. Catch is catch can I think is what they call it. Not sure how it got called that? But its obviously a martial art that gets no credit or mention these days. But it must of been widely known back in the 1800's and early 1900's. I think the wrestling I watched on a Saturday on English television back in the 80s with big Daddy n giant Haystacks ect well there was a lesser known wrestler named Steven Regal who the moved to the USA and became William Regal who won king of the ring and gave Goldberg a good lesson in a match once using catch wrestling and he gave him such a good match he exposed Goldberg n was partly the reason he got fired from WCW But then went on to WWE and the rest is history for Regal. I think hes now coaching the new wrestlers for the up and coming guy's n I bet hes teaching them catch wrestling cause it's so effective. Look in to it more fight fans there is a great channel on RUclips called "English Martial Arts" and he has done a few good videos on catch wrestling and its history. Check it out if ud like to know more about this forgotten n effective style of fighting. I'd say BJJ is partly catch wrestling too. That's my report here from Ireland oh 1 more wrestler who is a catch wrestler is Fit Finlay. Hope u enjoyed my report 🇮🇪
Biggest testament to catch is Josh's brains arent scrambled and his face is nearly spotless after 30 years of fighting.
Damn Josh is on the skinny side
Its the practitioner not the style
I'm late but that why I think guys like mcgregor need wrestling and bjj which I where catch wrestling comes in it should really be mandatory to learn for a always changing sport
BJJ came about because catch wrestling had some very dangerous moves. BJJ is a safer sport with different rules. I'm not a fan of BJJ, I think catch is far superior but the Gracie's got way more backing after the early years of UFC and did really well creating and endorsing and growing their brand. I think properly trained catch wrestlers will murder BJJ proponents but catch is not a very endorsed combat sport here in America. Look up catch wrestling gyms and see if you can find one near you, then look up BJJ gyms and see how long it takes to filter all the results.
war master osu
Much of BJJ is catch wrestling. They just call it JJ.
This guy isn't a catch wrestler due to the fact that nobody is wrestling for shoulder pin or sub on a world country state level....any matches of Barnett wrestling under catch rules anywhere?!?!
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Catch is awsome...and very brutal..You Olympic wrestlers are doing yourself a disservice not to train this violent art...
that depends on what the Olympic wrestlers goals are. If they only care about the Olympics learning subs would only be a waste of their training time.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has piqued my interest in Catch wrestling.
I'm the King of Catch in the Snake Pit 😘
boston crab
STOP with the best vs best comparisons. Just do BJJ and Catch Wrestling. It will just make you better.
It's actually Bjj wrestling and Muay Thai not kickboxing sometimes judo sambo and kickboxing but it's Muay Thai. Muay Thai is better cuz how the clinch
Jason Paz What you talking about? Hahah
Jason Paz You make so much sense don't you
I'm far for being the best wrestler, but once entered an open with judo and bjj and beat the crap out of them . I just used wrestling without rules and some locks . Watch the fight of Alexander Karelin against the judoka champion. In our practices at the gym, judo won if wearing clothes, and wrestling if not using a shirt in challenges we used to do for funny. At the times of the catch as can classic, a japanese wrestler went to participate and was famous for the armbar but never was a champion. Funny TV wrestling as the mexican comes from this style when was a bit more serious, but ironically lost importance for brutallity people didn't liked, wich is seen now in MMA. Twenty years ago I tought catch as can is a great martial art without all the oriental bullshito, fortunately now after some wrestlers leads in MMA and this comments makes me justice. Western martial arts was prejudiced by sport rules and kung fu movies. Eastern martial arts are great as well, but nothing magic about, just too much discipline for a westerner IMO
Catch wrestling doesnt work. If you want a real martial art do aikido.
roid wrestling