"intellectual and sound-minded"? hah, this dumbass believes in fairy-tales. all he does is assert bullshit and make claims with nothing to back it up, "nothing". his dr. title is a joke.
That is fascinating. As a Muslim, it echoes with my concept how God is timeless. There is no past, present or future. We are bound by time and we can't even understand or comprehend what time is. "Whatever you think of God, he is something else"..
A limited time bound human being will never comprehend a omnipresent and omniscient God. He created time and therefore not bound by time. I pray the effort put forth to understand the logistics of God will translate into effort to have a relationship with Jesus.
It's amazing how threatened so many people in the comments are by WLC...if you disagree with him, tell us why! If you agree with him, do the same! We don't get "closer to truth" through personal attacks (on Craig or on each other in these comments). Let's engage with the actual material please.
GOD is TIMELESS , out of any measure of Time . HE created TIME when (!!!! )HE decided to create the universe and humanity. (GENESIS 1 : 1 / PSALMS 90 .......................!!!)
Why can't God be both within time and outside of time (eternal)? To say otherwise would be placing a limitation on God within our minds. In fact, there may be an infinite number of timelines (possibilities) with God being within all of them.
He said that God is both timeless and within time. "God is timeless sans creation and in time since the moment of creation", therefore He is eternal (without beginning nor end)
He said that God is both timeless and within time. "God is timeless sans creation and in time since the moment of creation", therefore He is eternal (without beginning nor end)
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength". Corinthians 1:18-25
Regarding the timeline of creation stated in Genesis 1 of the Bible, many people think that creation occurred within a 7 "earth-day" period. However, if one reads the actual text of the Bible carefully, it is very clear that the “days” mentioned in Genesis 1 are not referring to the assumed 24-hour earth- days with which we are all accustomed. Because, what is a “day” on earth? Isn’t a "earth-day” the single revolution of the earth around its axis? (By the way, science has shown that the rotation of the earth has not been constant over earth's history. Additionally, every celestial body has a different length for its "day".) According to the Bible, the Earth was not "formed" until the 3rd day of creation. Prior to the 3rd day of creation, the earth was "without form and void". So, how could an "unformed" earth have rotated about its non-existent axis during the first two days of creation to provide a measure of time? Clearly, God was using a different measure of time for a “day” during the “seven days of creation”. In other words, God was not using an “earth-day” as a unit measure of time during creation. To think that God would use an "earth-based time clock" to measure the creation of the universe is akin to the out-dated geocentric belief that the universe revolves around the earth. Even though God is everywhere at all times, God did not have to be "on" earth [Obviously, since the earth had not even been formed until the third "day" of creation.] and therefore not limited by an earthly time frame, when He created the heavens and the earth. (By the way, when was the clock invented? When was the unit measure of time for a second, a minute, an hour, a 24-hour day established? These are all relatively new innovations. So, how could they have measured time at the moment of creation.) God is beyond heaven, earth ... and time.
The universe is huge so he won’t get bored. Heck the Egyptians would keep you fascinated for a few thousand years and they were but one point of interest on a planet that’s just one of countless.
Its Simple, first grab a bottle of wine, pour a glass, light a candle, drink some wine and focus, look at the candle burning while you drink, keep drinking, keep staring at the candle while it 🔥, drink some more, stare at the candle, you will start to understand space and time after a few glasses in.........:)
Time is a creation that is the result of the creation of matter which quantifies time and distance. Matter is wound up and running down. Physical things are temporal. In timelessness, everything is instantaneous, forever. God just is. Better to be than not to be. Lies are not forever, in fact, lies don't actually exist. The physical world is a fabrication that is neither good nor bad. We are a physical fabrication that is neither good nor bad. What is good or bad is what we choose to do.
Pity the dates of these interviews are not shown because here, for instance, no mention is made about the new quantum theories, which deal with simultaneity of existence both in time and in space, thus rendering this previous(?) discussions rather obsolete, huh.
The Eternal Now is what many near-death survivors and mystics have experienced. And this is what God exactly said to Neale Donald Walsch: "Time is such a sublime realm, in which past, present, and future exist inter-relationally. That is, they are not opposites, but rather parts of the same whole....If you conclude from this that past, present, and future exists at one and the same "time," you are right."
If God is affected by time, then he is no longer God. He controls time. He is outside time. To him there is no past,present or future. Those things apply to man not God. He is above all.
4 года назад+2
Debate with religious people isnt't even necessary. 5 minutes of googling will tell you about how when lightning rods were first invented, several Churches refrained from having them put in, because they believed God wouldn't strike the Church with lightning. Of course, most people can see where this is going, after the deaths and injuries of several bell boys by lightning strikes, these Churches eventually conceded and had lightning rods installed. The debate between science and religion should've ended there.
Well, it would go something like this , "Synchronicity is completely unfalsifiable and is therefore a pseudoscientific concept" - that's about all there is to say.
@@grahamblack1961 Is it your belief that this is a science channel or that only scientific concepts should be discussed? Further, an interesting skeptic like Dennett could unpack what you just said for an hour.
theotormon Synchronicity is making a claim about the world. That makes an empirically testable idea. However it makes no testable predictions and can’t be refuted by any course of events as any course of events.
@@grahamblack1961 Yes, of course Dennett would agree with you. Do you assume that someone who wanted talk about synchronicity would only welcome uncritical discussions?
I think this is doing entirely too much. Let God be God. Some things are for Him alone to know. Let's focus time and energy on what He has revealed to us which is His will. To seek and save the lost. To preach the Gospel and make disciples. Knowing how God exist won't save a single soul from hell.
I disagree very much. I left the church as a young man because of logical issues that I had with the teachings of Christianity. 20 years later, after a great deal of thought and trying to understand the universe, things fell into place and I returned to believing God. Now I believe fully. Different people think differently, and for some people, thinking things out through logical procedures is just how we think. I am of the belief that God is for everyone, and there are many different ways we can come to know God through Christ. I feel quite sure that this type of conversation, this searching and longing to better understand, is very much in the favor of God. God loves us all, even the biggest nerds on the planet!
@@Johnnybsknees 1000% agree with this.. there are those who simply love to know and want to know things and want to understand the mysteries, its their joy.. so when a person like that asks a question and get responded with “you don’t need to know” or “don’t worry about that” it can be a huge turn off, some people can just accept things without question but other people like to go deeper, everyone is different. And the church needs to be equipped with leaders that can relate to and teach both those types of people.. its actually a huge problem
Mind boggling discussion! 🤯 Is it not possible to reconcile the two forms of time (ie. McTaggarts A-Theory and B-Theory), as two different perspectives? So, can we say from our imminent human perspective, that only the dynamic present exists empirically (A-Theory), yet we can rationally extrapolate that to a transcendent tenseless perspective of time as a 4D Block (B-Theory). This seems like the relationship of eg. a drawn triangle (imminent) to the perfect Platonic Form/concept of a triangle (transcendent). IMO, they are co-dependant. Moreover, God (being Omnipresent), must exist at all levels: as imminent manifestation (eg. ten green bottles) and transcendent abstraction (the number 10). What’s that like as an experience? Who knows the mind of God!? Yet perhaps a clue is that our awareness in this present moment (imminent), is in part determined by the context of our life as a whole (transcendent)? Even we as humans have awareness on multiple levels.
I thought of McTaggart as well, also the movie Arrival. I would think it is possible to reconcile the two forms, but I wouldn't wanna try to do it here on RUclips, lol.
When William said "no temporal location or extension." and "Black at one time but not black at a later time." It made me think of this. ruclips.net/video/5xN4DxdiFrs/видео.html
Can you not perceive both that which is still and that which is moving and changing? Can you not break the surface of still water to get it moving and can you not catch a ball stopping it in the process? But can you see a bullet being shot or move a tir by pushing on it? I think that's the idea. Time can be separated in two in this sense, the moving and the unmoving, it stands to reason that we don't have the ability God has to stop nor see most moving items because they change too fast unless they are moving extremely slowly and that we don't have a way to start something still in time because our strength is so little that we can't overcome "time-attrition" in any way that is meaningful for our survival, and so we evolved to only perceive things that are just about ready to stop moving either because they are stopping(aka relativity) or stoppable(aka quantum mechanics) because those we can stop and that's pretty much all we do, we stop stuff that is almost still whether because it's stopping itself and we are slightly altering how long our consciousness of the event is(if we speed it up we get a shorter experience and if we slow it down a longer one, however slightly, basically making our consciousness influence the time it takes time to time through space but it's by an imperceptible amount due to how pathetically weak we are xD which is why we can perceive our own consciousness but not somebody else's in time) or because we can stop it and that's the process we call perception, getting a notification whenever something is slow enough to be stopped within our field of influence, in this sense the past is simply that which is still and the future that which is moving while the present is that which is stopping directly or through the dynamics of how a stoppable system interacts with one that is stopping. It is God that is keeping the past still and the future moving, whether through action or inaction but he could just as easily stop that which is moving and start that which is still, de facto inverting in a sense the timeline we would perceive. Maybe God himself has a timeline but it doesn't need to be bound by our own, perhaps he can move or change it to match it and operate coherently within our perception. Time is a limitation of our ability to consciously perceive which may simply be out of convenience due to the fact that we are too weak to move the past or stop the future and too stupid to see it clearly. Perhaps God can arbitrarily expand, retract or compartmentalize his omniscient and omnipresent nature to something more or less contained while still maintaining the same omnipresence and omniscience from our perspective. Perhaps Christ was a compartmentalization of sorts of his infinite nature from our conception of time, in the same way in which our shadow in a sense can be seen as a 2D compartmentalization of our body with which we can interact with the world as if it was 2D and our shadow was our body in this 2D conception of the world. In this 2D conception of the world at the same time we would remain infinite from the perspective of that system because our 3D body allows us to interact with that world and perceive it in a way that something that is only a shadow without a 3D extension or a way to access his 3D extension can't do and we would be able to shape this 2D world of shadows in miraculous ways from the perspective of these shadows. That's the way in which I see the interaction between the concept of God and the concept of Time.
God is outside of time seeing past present future simultaneously. We experience it in 3.5 dimensions. Time being the 1/2 that we experience it only moving forward. Gods is still on planA, never caught off gaurd, since genesis 1:31. We are born under the curse of Adam experiencing our selves subjectively apart from his presence: hence needing to be born again back into his presence. But hey, I’m a high school dropout Texas plumber, lol.
we can agree that time and space are connected, we see it with relativity, the faster you go, the slower the time, and at the speed of light, time stops.....maybe thats where god hangs out..maybe thats why they say godspeed...
I dont think we we really understand Eternity at all. This whole attempt is like trying to put infinity in a test tube. That is a contradiction and a logically impossibility.
If God has no beginning, how god arrived in a point to create universe 😣, because there was a time when the universe has not been existed and there is time when the universe does exist
Infinity has no beginning or end. The creation of this physical universe doesn’t effect infinity, it’s a small point in an endless line of a constant variable, the passing through of moments. Things will still continue to happen when this reality is destroyed. Gods viewpoint of the present moment is everything all at once. Our view of the past/present is limited because we cannot see outside the confines of time itself nor can we even fully comprehend time. God is all knowing. If Time does not effect or limit God He can create things that are temporary while still remaining unaffected by it. When did God create? In the beginning of what we would know as previous events. For God it could have been immediately or 10B+ years it’s all the same from His perspective.
When we say time is real, it means that God set it in such a way that an event is irrevokable so that you watch what you decide to do, since the consequence of which you will face inescapably. You all here who keep saying time is an illusion, just show that you can undo what you did yesterday or few minutes ago, then I'll believe you.
There's nothing God can't do except sin I was thinking of an example I've used before let's say your looking at a picture of the beach with a lot of people in the picture dated early 20th century and you look at some people in the picture and they seem to be interested in a conversation and you say I wonder what those people were taking about and I'm not saying he would do it but God says to you you want to know what they were talking about and all of a sudden your on that beach it's hot it's early 20th century and your listening to the conversation of those people I. Not saying he would do that but he could cause the God I serve is awesome forever all powerful
hahah I am so torn on this view of God and logic limiting him. In one sense I disagree with Dr Craig that God could be limited in any way by logic, making him subject to some platonic realm but I also apply a very similar argument when it comes to moral reasoning, where I don't believe God "would" choose to command violence and then it's opposite over the two testaments. The "would" and "could" seem to be very key differences though.
Craig _needs_ to believe God is limited by logic. His God needs to be that small do he can keep holding onto his certainty and not be scared that death is the end of it all. So childish.
wow no talk about physics when discussing time. we already figured out time, its the speed of light or rather the speed of causality, we understand the relationship between time and matter inside the quantum fields of space.
Physics studies time from within, in it's operation. Philosophy of time studies time from without and its existence. Physics is interesting but not going to address the question of what is time in relation to eternal God.
@@mikeclancy741 when I just started understanding space time and theory of relativity that's when I smoked a joint and said holy crap this is crazy wierd.
Hi, Lawrence. A new and great ideas about what is Space and Time are discussed in a book called - My Quest to Understand Everything, which is available on Amazon. In this book there are many other ideas of theoretical physics too, such as what is aether, where do we come from, what are and how work black holes, does free will exist, which is more credible from two theories, namely, flat earth and hollow earth theory... etc... Also, what is the true pattern of Magnetic field and how it works. Also, how electromagnetism causes the rotations of everything in space. There are soooooo many ideas in this book. And you can discuss those ideas in your videos, starting with what is and how looks the true pattern of Magnetic field. I have never seen you addressing this with any of your guests...
I see God (in order to exist) as needing to have his own 2nd time dimension, where we just have one. Just like 3D concepts as inside and outside don't work in 4 dimensional space, so does past present and future and 'moments' not work in God's 2nd time dimension. We see it as timeless, where in that dimension God has his own dynamicism. We just cannot fathom the reality of the second time dimension, just as 3 dimensional beings cannot fathom a 4 dimensional space, or a 2 dimensional being cannot fathom a 3 dimensional world.
French Frys On the contrary, if there is a God - then anything and everything is evidence for God’s existence. So if you want to derive that God exists, then anything is evidence for God’s existence. Pointing to a descriptive model of whatever flavor and saying that it explains something is to precisely not explain anything. So contrary to your conclusion that there is zero evidence, there is nearly limitless evidence.
@French Frys Having no evidence for God doesn't mean you can't think about it. I find it interesting. There is logic to be thrown at it until it has been fully disproved. If logic doesn't work anymore on the problem, then yes I'd agree you should stop thinking about it. On another note there is no evidence for me (or anybody) of your consciousness. Still you don't doubt you have it. Btw I'm not religious Please enjoy thinking outside of the box for a little while. It can be very enjoyable. Maybe you do all the time, but just feel this is a subject out of touch. But according to the ancient philosophers, this is just another logical problem. Enjoy it
@French Frys I am on no quest to prove the existence of God or what so ever. But to entertain the thought that there is something beyond our Big Bang or just the mere concept of space and time. I like the comparison of Spinoza in this matter: that mind and matter are only two expressions of the unlimited expressions of God. But we can not experience them becaus we do not share anything with those expressions. This means I don't think of God as a person, as you obviously naively do, but a construct of higher 'something' above our space and time. I have no proof for the existence of God. I am only trying to make logical restrictions with current knowledge, that IF he exists, he needs to comply to certain terms. The more we know, the more we know what God Is NOT like I guess. You don't sound like a thinker or philosophically inclined person who likes to think outside of the box of his own limited self and his experience.
@French Frys For instance I think God, if he exists, cannot be in time (which means our dimension of time), for then he would stand next to us, look at the Traveling Salesman Problem, and shrug his shoulder and not be able to help you whatsoever as he in time cannot solve the NP-hard problem any faster than you can. He has the same ingredients, but in time is not able to calculate it any faster than you do, as he is limited by time now just like you. This means, if he wants to be omniscient and know the solution to your problem instantly (and give this as a prediction to you as a God can), he needs infinite time in which he can compute the problem, or live in a dimension where time duration has no meaning. That's all I said
@French Frys Also did you know your favorite scientific tool, that you're probably mentally using in this case, Ockham's razor, was invented by him to prove God's existence? See, another case how something useless as thinking about God can turn into something fruitful...
I disagree with William Lane Craig. For God to have perfect knowledge of our lives, he has to experience our lives within time as we do. In other words, we are each an aspect of God experiencing our life within time. God ALSO exists eternally, outside of time. God exists BOTH within time as he experiences the lives of every conscious being AND transcendent to time. ***I see no contradiction.*** If God couldn't experience time, he wouldn't know everything. For God to have perfect, total knowledge, understanding, and experience, he has to experience being within time as well as eternity.
simple: God/Logos is THE WORD (JOHN1:1), like A Super Computer, everything is counted. our lifetime are mp3/songs & video inside the computer. God already knew/saw everything perfectly. Jesus can see our soul & knows our mind before we say anything. He can see through our body. we are human trapped in body/material & time of earth. but Jesus Godly Mind is beyond time, He's already saw everything far in the future & tell it to disciples! Jesus is God who gives prophecy & control history. Jesus is the Centre of time & world & history, BC & AD! JESUS IS YHWH ALPHA&OMEGA AMEN! 😊🙏
god's eternity is all about killing universes everyday eternity after eternity in hell, and the other gods's eternity also serial killers in infinity of lifes
Is there a god is is All I can say to you. You just wait to your on your death bed what you will see. Please get rid of that. Is there a God? He is showing you that he is a God or powerful. I am a near death experience. Listen to us. Thank you for your wonderful program. I love them God bless whatever you are on mother. Earth
Likewise. I try not to think negative thoughts about his pronouncements and where they come from, but it's a challenge. I'm convinced it's not entirely a personality issue.
If god knows the future he must know I will never, not in a million years, believe in his existence. Therefore he knows I am doomed to burn in hell for all eternity for not feeling the need to delude myself. I think I’ve wasted enough of the limited time I have even thinking about this shit. Life is but a hiccup of consciousness between oblivions.
Mohamed Taqi the Bible doesn’t specify whether it was a whale, large fish, etc. you also said that MOST whales eat zooplankton, microorganisms and not typically humans.
Mohamed Taqi interesting point you bring up with “could have”. It could have not happened. The Bible says it did and it was a large fish. So taking it for face value it’s relatively clear that it was a fish or something of the like. If God exists, and can create the whole universe with his voice, then I think he can make a whale swallow a man.
I'd like to use an analogy to describe God. That analogy is a dream. When you fall asleep at night and dream, your consciousness does something miraculous. A whole world springs into being - full of objects, scenery, and other entities. It is immersive - you are convinced you are there. If you lucid dream, you can discover that you are both 'the dreamer' and 'in the dream' at the same time. This shows us another property of consciousness - it is fractal in nature. Yet as soon as you awaken, you realize that the entirety of the dream (even a distorted sense of time) took place in your consciousness. There never was anything else... every other object, person, etc. in the dream has its ground of being in your consciousness. Lets take those same properties and up their potency to infinity. Now instead of dreaming a world, you dream an infinite universe. The dream is so immersive that you never doubt it for a second. The dream lasts 'trillions of years'... but for the consciousness dreaming it there is nothing to that passage of time. Lucid dreamers in this dream make strange statements like "I am the son of God" or "I and the father are one" or "Atman is Brahmen, and thou are that". Their writings would say things like "God is the source and ground of all being". If you look carefully, I just described a God that is both Immanent and transcendent. As both the dreamer of the dream, and every character in the dream this God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. The only thing that doesn't fit this picture is 'you' - that sense of separate self. If you study eastern religions, that is exactly what they tell you is the illusion. If you study Christianity you find sayings like "It is not I that live, but Christ that lives in me", or we must "die to self". If you take psychedelics, wander in the desert for 40 days / 40 nights, meditate and calm your Ego, or have a near death experience then you feel 'one with everything'. Your separate self dies, unity with the divine is realized... and then you come back to spread that love to all the rest of creation... still asleep. So here you are, convinced you are Will or Bob or Suzy or whoever. God (if he exists) never shows himself. Those mystics... just spouting gibberish. When you dream, you ignore them... someday science may figure out why - you're just 'processing'. You won't touch psychedelics... cause brain damage obviously. But hey - you got science, and that will show you all kinds of information about the contents of the dream. Why you live? who knows - why you die? who knows. One thing is for sure though, this is 'reality' and no one is pulling the wool over your eyes. You aren't a part of God, a piece of his infinite imagination, a form in the eternal dream - you're YOU! So sleep well and keep on dreaming.
Dreams may have a distortion of one's perception of time, but dreams still require temporal progression. When one dreams, the dream starts, occurs, and stops. God, in this analogy, is still temporally located.
@@matthewlallinger9603 God is BOTH temporally located (in the form of everything in the dream) and also NOT temporally located (in the formlessness of the infinite, eternal consciousness dreaming it all). A analogy to that is when you have a realistic dream that seems to take several hours or days of 'time' passing in your dream, but we know that the entire thing took place during REM sleep (approximately 2 hr window of sleep in an average night). To me, this is one of the qualities of consciousness. It CAN experience time in the 'normal' fashion, but perception of time can be sped up, slowed down, or stopped completely (as occurs in dreamless sleep). If we accept the premise that put forward - that God IS Consciousness - then as the dreamer God's perspective of time can be any and all of these states. Of course the easy(ish) test is the mystical experience. Go have one - it will modify your perspective of time, showing it to be part of the illusion of this shared reality.
@@brentonbrenton9964 *"NOT temporally located (in the formlessness of the infinite, eternal consciousness dreaming it all)"* You use the tensed word "dreaming" because dreaming is a tensed activity. Both the dream and the one dreaming have to be located in time, with modified perception. You even admit this yourself when you say *" but perception of time can be sped up, slowed down, or stopped completely (as occurs in dreamless sleep)."* You imply only dreamless sleep involves the total lack of temporal perception. Nevertheless, lack of temporal perception does not imply a lack of objective tense. Even when I sleep, I still exist within time.
I love it how relativity and quantum mechanics can make sense out of evil and suffering problem. It's easy to imagine universe came from nothing, but than it's very hard to explain why all life is suffering, universe would work about the same without it. We could also say, condition of life is to feel physical changes in it's environment, and those are always painful sensations, even if senses and thoughts just distract illusive substance of consciousness in slightest way, it's still annoying and cant be prevented. And evil can scale up to infinity, one can just exist, suffer terrible agony and die, without any purpose and nobody to notice, like nothing ever happened, except for a poor soul. We are lucky and can choose, not like prehistoric trees living for millennia and slowly turning into stone, but way better than smaller animals all around us, specially those already exterminated and extinct. Some bugs live only one day and turtles can last hundreds of years, those experience most agony trough their long lives. Life exist so long we are actually standing on it, all living turned to soil, covering barren rocks, made from pure elements and fusion inside explosion of a star. It is very hard to imagine all this exist in mind of a single entity, trying to make sense of his own great idea, but this is what we want, it seems. This is explained in myth of a primordial paradise, when first Adam and Eve asked a big question. How is all that eternal beauty and perfection possible, who build it and why, from what, where is it and what is it's purpose? Now we know, i ques, or somebody is about to after they solve last puzzles and return universe into it's ideal and ever lasting form. So if we ever meet in some new paradise, no more stupid questions please, just shut up and enjoy.
God could be a singularity than, it surrounds entire universe and everything there is is created from it. Or we could reverse the problem in another way, my thoughts are timeless, but i am material and temporal, so maybe God is just the opposite. What we think of matter is God's thoughts and what we experience as time space is his body. This way he could be temporal and non material, but still real and present at once. And his form is magical singularity, it's like nothing, and we know nothing is devoid of all qualita, including time, without any geometry and borders. From God's point of view, everything is still the same singularity substance, except this existance is what it takes to form a perfect universe, where entropy is in a perfect balance with Maxwell's demons. Atheists will love that idea :)
@@vids595 You missed most important element in this story, space time is material body of a God, our material world are his thoughts. This way he can reconcile with temptations of his own creation, like he found a way to put all that nothing into a good use. Universe is not a Lego blocks, particles are vibrating and constantly exchange pulses, you can't just stuck them and leave the game. Hey, this is another interesting idea, what if we received holly scriptures to late, they might be traveling to Earth for billions of years and story of resurrection is already over, God is long dead, universe is left to his self aware creations and this is how we manage now without him. Singularity could became anything, you see, it's like a magic dust that can even turn into another, completely different dimension and time travel in multiple universes.
Why don’t you guys ever discuss G-d with Noahides or Jews? The original monotheists. You only discuss G-d with idol worshipping Christians. So odd. Get Dr Gerald Schroeder on here!
I feel at some point here, its sounding like a similar argument to dissecting scientifically how Santa is able to simultaneously deliver presents 🎁 around the world all in one night. Santa is timeless and tempural all at once....lol. We are trying to quantify fairytales here.
@Zeke Bean There is nothing wrong with history and science. But if you are objective and dive deep into all sciences, philosophies and history you actually become a Christian with EVEN MORE CLARITY
@Zeke Bean I have studied the sciences and histories for most of my adult life. I have been through most philosophies and beliefs and earlier in my life i scorned Christianity and religion but after all my journey I came home to Christ. It made the most sense and it felt like home. I do not take the bible literally but after listening to discourses, debates and researching the resurrection of our father I could not refute this truth. He rose from the dead. I woke up to the profound truth that all the universe, all the engery, all the dimensions, all the love, all the evolotuion, all the power that is nature and creation humbled itself to live a human life then die and rise again. Lifting the veil. I understand your perspective coming from a scientific mindset and world history. To me science and religion are blurring together. A divine creator makes the most sense. At least to me. Happy New Year. May you answer Jesus's call one day.
But God whispers in his ear that Christianity is true. It's the devil that tells him it's not. So, my dear friend, you are clearly being blinded into confusion by Satan...
Vaul, Dog Warrior I am lucky to have been raised a free spirt and not be coerced by others concepts of God. I am able to think freely without the fear mongering from others and have my own relationship and understanding of what a god might be, if there is one. My heart, spirt, mind is filled with the concept and experience of love that no human can take from me regardless of what they believe or think I should believe. Merry Christmas if that is what you believe, and if not enjoy your journey on this earth and walk on the many paths with an open mind, grace and love. Peace
@@Mastermindyoung14 You're ignoring the other 4 lines of objective evidence. He mentions that last point, only because, Christianity is a personal relationship with God- a religion in the second person. Don't be disingenuous and believe that's his only line of evidence for God.
This fundamentalist theologian is a joke. No one should be calling him a philosopher. He's a fundamentalist in a philosopher's robe. He holds to the completely discredited theory of Divine Illumination for goodness sake. He thinks angels and demons whisper in his ear telling him to either keep believing the truth or to reject it (I'm not kidding, I have the video proof). Which of course he knows by divine illumination to be one of the forms of the 40k versions of modern Christianity...
Sorry, can't take him seriously. Looks like some Steve Martin character. In the other hand i could listen to David Bentley Hart all day long. Fascinating mind.
Silly. You can experience time in a dream that can last a lifetime. Then wake up in 15 mins that has passed. Time is a perception, not fundamental to reality. Come on guys. This isn't rocket science. 😊
@@jedicharls Hi. This might be a semantic thing. Even in the waking state "environment" the perception of time is highly variable. I'm sure you recall almost having an accident in which your perception of time changed drastically. Even special relativity shows this for travellers travelling at different speeds. Their perception of time is different and their clocks run at slightly different times. In fact, near the speed of light, time stops. All we can say from personal experience and science is that time is not fundamental regardless of your "environment". It just another relative perception like space.😊 Watch "Huw Price - Is Time Fundamental?" on RUclips ruclips.net/video/xvkuJdF1k3c/видео.html
@@jedicharls Hi again. In fact it's worse than that. Quantum mechanics is our best, most verified science. It says, not only is time kind of an illusion, so is space and matter. This is very non intuitive but the thousands of DS experiments show this to be true. It turns out our reality or environment is more like a virtual reality, not fundamental. Religious language calls this the "dream" of God or life. But, science also agrees things are not what they appear to be. There is something fundamental (doesn't come and go) underlying our perception of reality that is timeless, spaceless, and matterless. Science and religion use different words but the meaning is similar. Regardless what kind of language you use the implication is clear. We live in a kind of "virtual reality" here. Thanks for the dialogue. 😊 Watch "The DS Experiment Intro" on RUclips ruclips.net/video/MS8CvNonMEQ/видео.html
Closer To Truth is massively wandering away from what's true. I know because the almighty just spoKKKe directly to me, all super-personal & it said so.
I do try to listen to him as I figure you should make an effort to listen to those who you disagree with. But I just can't - the lazy thinking, the dishonesty, the appeals to intuition. I can't stand listening to this liar.
WLC: "God is spaceless and timeless" If you are spaceless, you are nowhere If you are timeless, you are never If you are nowhere and never, then you don't exist.
This is like two lads in a psych ward having a chat with tin foil hats on their heads 😂 Instead of trying to reconcile the impossible how about you use occums razor - it is all a load of nonsense
if god existed... and it doesn't... then all gods would exist, and if all gods existed then there are a multitude of answers to every question. WLC keeps digging in his quicksand hole. And like the last crocodile in the mud puddle he will die like the rest of us. merry festivus .
as much bs as I wrote is only topped by your bs. congrats. religions are the story of the people who told them. Most if not all groups are groups because of the stories they tell about: who we are, how we got here and why we should care. Tawa, the sun spirit. Tawa is the creator, and it was he who formed the "First World" out of Tokpella, or endless space, as well as its original inhabitants.[4] It is still traditional for Hopi mothers to seek a blessing from the sun for their newborn children.[5] Other accounts have it that Tawa, or Taiowa, first created Sotuknang, whom he called his nephew, and sent him to create the nine universes according to his plan. Sotuknang also created Spider Woman, who served as a messenger for the creator and was an intercessor between the deity and the people. In some versions of the Hopi creation myth, it is she who creates all life under the direction of Sotuknang.[6] Yet other stories tell that life was created by Hard Being Woman of the West and Hard Being Woman of the East, while the sun merely observed the process.[7][8] Masauwu, Skeleton Man, was the Spirit of Death, Earth God, door keeper to the Fifth World, and the Keeper of Fire. He was also the Master of the Upper World, or the Fourth World, and was there when the good people escaped the wickedness of the Third World for the promise of the Fourth.[9] Masauwu is described as wearing a hideous mask, but again showing the diversity of myths among the Hopi, Masauwu was alternately described as a handsome, bejewelled man beneath his mask or as a bloody, fearsome creature. He is also assigned certain benevolent attributes.[10] One story has it that it was Masauwu who helped settle the Hopi at Oraibi and gave them stewardship over the land. He also charged them to watch for the coming of the Pahana (see section below), the Lost White Brother.[11] Other important deities include the twin war gods, the kachinas, and the trickster, Coyote. Maize is vital to Hopi subsistence and religion. "For traditional Hopis, corn is the central bond. Its essence, physically, spiritually, and symbolically, pervades their existence. For the people of the mesas corn is sustenance, ceremonial object, prayer offering, symbol, and sentient being unto itself. Corn is the Mother in the truest sense that people take in the corn and the corn becomes their flesh, as mother milk becomes the flesh of the child."[12] Your particular god is one that occurred in the middle east where Zoroastrians were the ruling religious elite. It morphed and evolved until the romans trashed their village. In order to keep their story the survivors morphed the religion to explain what happened. the jesus story happened which has morphed into as many as 1.5 billion personal religions who interpret that story in different ways. Your personal religion is nothing more than you saying, I'm right and everybody I disagree with is wrong. Take you ball and go home.
So if this is how God sees time, how do humans have free will? Dr Craig believes God views time in a B-theory sort of way, yet humans have free will. How is that possible? This God idea is always ill-defined, and that's why's it always ultimately makes no actual sense.
Craig actually promotes the idea of Molinism when it comes to the problem of free will vs. Predestination, which he didn't go into in this talk, see... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism?wprov=sfla1
Because you have thoughts and can make decisions without an outside force making them for you. You are not a robot, which is programmed to act based on conditions only. Shalom
@@onestepaway3232 Despite the fact that God already has perfect knowledge of all time? How exactly can you act outside this "block" of time Dr Craig speaks of in this video? You can't! The free will itself is an illusion, just like temporal becoming is an illusion on the B theory of time.
@@vpconroy The idea of "middle knowledge" entails that there are things God does not certainly know until they are actualised. That, what he knows are the POSSIBILITIES of the "choices" that a "free" creature can make. This could be somewhat permissible (though there'd still be problems) only if we presuppose the A theory of time with respect to God. If the B theory is true-which entails that not just possibilities are contained within spacetime, but CERTAINTIES-then I do not see how the "middle knowledge" still works. Free will still looks pretty much illusory.
Dr. William Lane Craig has to be by far one of your most intellectual and sound-minded guests.
"intellectual and sound-minded"?
hah, this dumbass believes in fairy-tales.
all he does is assert bullshit and make claims with nothing to back it up, "nothing". his dr. title is a joke.
That is fascinating. As a Muslim, it echoes with my concept how God is timeless. There is no past, present or future. We are bound by time and we can't even understand or comprehend what time is.
"Whatever you think of God, he is something else"..
A limited time bound human being will never comprehend a omnipresent and omniscient God. He created time and therefore not bound by time. I pray the effort put forth to understand the logistics of God will translate into effort to have a relationship with Jesus.
Love him or hate him, he truly is a brilliant mind
Hate seeing it wasted
Mastermindyoung14 what?
It's amazing how threatened so many people in the comments are by WLC...if you disagree with him, tell us why! If you agree with him, do the same! We don't get "closer to truth" through personal attacks (on Craig or on each other in these comments). Let's engage with the actual material please.
GOD is TIMELESS , out of any measure of Time . HE created TIME when (!!!! )HE decided to create the universe and humanity. (GENESIS 1 : 1 / PSALMS 90 .......................!!!)
Yes, He is beyond what we know as time
Why can't God be both within time and outside of time (eternal)? To say otherwise would be placing a limitation on God within our minds. In fact, there may be an infinite number of timelines (possibilities) with God being within all of them.
exactly.
He said that God is both timeless and within time.
"God is timeless sans creation and in time since the moment of creation", therefore He is eternal (without beginning nor end)
Malachi 3:6 “For I the Lord do not change…” 10:30
The answer is that God is BOTH outside of time and in time. We see this throughout scripture. God is a personal God who calls His sheep by name.
He said that God is both timeless and within time.
"God is timeless sans creation and in time since the moment of creation", therefore He is eternal (without beginning nor end)
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength". Corinthians 1:18-25
i wish I learn god history I know it have no end, its like a history book with no end
What?
@@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns I meant I would like a book which talked about what god did back then and his past is eternal
Regarding the timeline of creation stated in Genesis 1 of the Bible, many people think that creation occurred within a 7 "earth-day" period. However, if one reads the actual text of the Bible carefully, it is very clear that the “days” mentioned in Genesis 1 are not referring to the assumed 24-hour earth- days with which we are all accustomed. Because, what is a “day” on earth? Isn’t a "earth-day” the single revolution of the earth around its axis? (By the way, science has shown that the rotation of the earth has not been constant over earth's history. Additionally, every celestial body has a different length for its "day".) According to the Bible, the Earth was not "formed" until the 3rd day of creation. Prior to the 3rd day of creation, the earth was "without form and void". So, how could an "unformed" earth have rotated about its non-existent axis during the first two days of creation to provide a measure of time? Clearly, God was using a different measure of time for a “day” during the “seven days of creation”. In other words, God was not using an “earth-day” as a unit measure of time during creation. To think that God would use an "earth-based time clock" to measure the creation of the universe is akin to the out-dated geocentric belief that the universe revolves around the earth. Even though God is everywhere at all times, God did not have to be "on" earth [Obviously, since the earth had not even been formed until the third "day" of creation.] and therefore not limited by an earthly time frame, when He created the heavens and the earth. (By the way, when was the clock invented? When was the unit measure of time for a second, a minute, an hour, a 24-hour day established? These are all relatively new innovations. So, how could they have measured time at the moment of creation.) God is beyond heaven, earth ... and time.
The universe is huge so he won’t get bored. Heck the Egyptians would keep you fascinated for a few thousand years and they were but one point of interest on a planet that’s just one of countless.
I like WLC
Its Simple, first grab a bottle of wine, pour a glass, light a candle, drink some wine and focus, look at the candle burning while you drink, keep drinking, keep staring at the candle while it 🔥, drink some more, stare at the candle, you will start to understand space and time after a few glasses in.........:)
Time is a creation that is the result of the creation of matter which quantifies time and distance. Matter is wound up and running down. Physical things are temporal. In timelessness, everything is instantaneous, forever. God just is. Better to be than not to be. Lies are not forever, in fact, lies don't actually exist. The physical world is a fabrication that is neither good nor bad. We are a physical fabrication that is neither good nor bad. What is good or bad is what we choose to do.
Pity the dates of these interviews are not shown because here, for instance, no mention is made about the new quantum theories, which deal with simultaneity of existence both in time and in space, thus rendering this previous(?) discussions rather obsolete, huh.
The Eternal Now is what many near-death survivors and mystics have experienced. And this is what God exactly said to Neale Donald Walsch: "Time is such a sublime realm, in which past, present, and future exist inter-relationally. That is, they are not opposites, but rather parts of the same whole....If you conclude from this that past, present, and future exists at one and the same "time," you are right."
If God is affected by time, then he is no longer God. He controls time. He is outside time. To him there is no past,present or future. Those things apply to man not God. He is above all.
Debate with religious people isnt't even necessary. 5 minutes of googling will tell you about how when lightning rods were first invented, several Churches refrained from having them put in, because they believed God wouldn't strike the Church with lightning. Of course, most people can see where this is going, after the deaths and injuries of several bell boys by lightning strikes, these Churches eventually conceded and had lightning rods installed. The debate between science and religion should've ended there.
This is the stuff that gives me anxiety attacks
Right with you bro, but I just can't stop myself from looking this stuff up, especially when I got God on my mind
I would like to hear some intellectuals talk, even critically, about synchronicity and its phenomenology.
Well, it would go something like this , "Synchronicity is completely unfalsifiable and is therefore a pseudoscientific concept" - that's about all there is to say.
@@grahamblack1961 Is it your belief that this is a science channel or that only scientific concepts should be discussed? Further, an interesting skeptic like Dennett could unpack what you just said for an hour.
theotormon Daniel Dennett? I would imagine he would be in full agreement.
theotormon Synchronicity is making a claim about the world. That makes an empirically testable idea. However it makes no testable predictions and can’t be refuted by any course of events as any course of events.
@@grahamblack1961 Yes, of course Dennett would agree with you. Do you assume that someone who wanted talk about synchronicity would only welcome uncritical discussions?
I think this is doing entirely too much. Let God be God. Some things are for Him alone to know. Let's focus time and energy on what He has revealed to us which is His will. To seek and save the lost. To preach the Gospel and make disciples. Knowing how God exist won't save a single soul from hell.
I disagree very much. I left the church as a young man because of logical issues that I had with the teachings of Christianity. 20 years later, after a great deal of thought and trying to understand the universe, things fell into place and I returned to believing God. Now I believe fully. Different people think differently, and for some people, thinking things out through logical procedures is just how we think. I am of the belief that God is for everyone, and there are many different ways we can come to know God through Christ. I feel quite sure that this type of conversation, this searching and longing to better understand, is very much in the favor of God. God loves us all, even the biggest nerds on the planet!
@@Johnnybsknees 1000% agree with this.. there are those who simply love to know and want to know things and want to understand the mysteries, its their joy.. so when a person like that asks a question and get responded with “you don’t need to know” or “don’t worry about that” it can be a huge turn off, some people can just accept things without question but other people like to go deeper, everyone is different. And the church needs to be equipped with leaders that can relate to and teach both those types of people.. its actually a huge problem
Mind boggling discussion! 🤯 Is it not possible to reconcile the two forms of time (ie. McTaggarts A-Theory and B-Theory), as two different perspectives? So, can we say from our imminent human perspective, that only the dynamic present exists empirically (A-Theory), yet we can rationally extrapolate that to a transcendent tenseless perspective of time as a 4D Block (B-Theory). This seems like the relationship of eg. a drawn triangle (imminent) to the perfect Platonic Form/concept of a triangle (transcendent). IMO, they are co-dependant. Moreover, God (being Omnipresent), must exist at all levels: as imminent manifestation (eg. ten green bottles) and transcendent abstraction (the number 10). What’s that like as an experience? Who knows the mind of God!? Yet perhaps a clue is that our awareness in this present moment (imminent), is in part determined by the context of our life as a whole (transcendent)? Even we as humans have awareness on multiple levels.
Loads of hogwash!
GeoCoppens LOL! 🤬
I thought of McTaggart as well, also the movie Arrival. I would think it is possible to reconcile the two forms, but I wouldn't wanna try to do it here on RUclips, lol.
If God is In time he wouldn’t know the future….
Why?
When William said "no temporal location or extension." and "Black at one time but not black at a later time." It made me think of this. ruclips.net/video/5xN4DxdiFrs/видео.html
Can you not perceive both that which is still and that which is moving and changing? Can you not break the surface of still water to get it moving and can you not catch a ball stopping it in the process? But can you see a bullet being shot or move a tir by pushing on it? I think that's the idea. Time can be separated in two in this sense, the moving and the unmoving, it stands to reason that we don't have the ability God has to stop nor see most moving items because they change too fast unless they are moving extremely slowly and that we don't have a way to start something still in time because our strength is so little that we can't overcome "time-attrition" in any way that is meaningful for our survival, and so we evolved to only perceive things that are just about ready to stop moving either because they are stopping(aka relativity) or stoppable(aka quantum mechanics) because those we can stop and that's pretty much all we do, we stop stuff that is almost still whether because it's stopping itself and we are slightly altering how long our consciousness of the event is(if we speed it up we get a shorter experience and if we slow it down a longer one, however slightly, basically making our consciousness influence the time it takes time to time through space but it's by an imperceptible amount due to how pathetically weak we are xD which is why we can perceive our own consciousness but not somebody else's in time) or because we can stop it and that's the process we call perception, getting a notification whenever something is slow enough to be stopped within our field of influence, in this sense the past is simply that which is still and the future that which is moving while the present is that which is stopping directly or through the dynamics of how a stoppable system interacts with one that is stopping. It is God that is keeping the past still and the future moving, whether through action or inaction but he could just as easily stop that which is moving and start that which is still, de facto inverting in a sense the timeline we would perceive. Maybe God himself has a timeline but it doesn't need to be bound by our own, perhaps he can move or change it to match it and operate coherently within our perception. Time is a limitation of our ability to consciously perceive which may simply be out of convenience due to the fact that we are too weak to move the past or stop the future and too stupid to see it clearly. Perhaps God can arbitrarily expand, retract or compartmentalize his omniscient and omnipresent nature to something more or less contained while still maintaining the same omnipresence and omniscience from our perspective. Perhaps Christ was a compartmentalization of sorts of his infinite nature from our conception of time, in the same way in which our shadow in a sense can be seen as a 2D compartmentalization of our body with which we can interact with the world as if it was 2D and our shadow was our body in this 2D conception of the world. In this 2D conception of the world at the same time we would remain infinite from the perspective of that system because our 3D body allows us to interact with that world and perceive it in a way that something that is only a shadow without a 3D extension or a way to access his 3D extension can't do and we would be able to shape this 2D world of shadows in miraculous ways from the perspective of these shadows. That's the way in which I see the interaction between the concept of God and the concept of Time.
God is outside of time seeing past present future simultaneously. We experience it in 3.5 dimensions. Time being the 1/2 that we experience it only moving forward.
Gods is still on planA, never caught off gaurd, since genesis 1:31.
We are born under the curse of Adam experiencing our selves subjectively apart from his presence: hence needing to be born again back into his presence.
But hey, I’m a high school dropout Texas plumber, lol.
we can agree that time and space are connected, we see it with relativity, the faster you go, the slower the time, and at the speed of light, time stops.....maybe thats where god hangs out..maybe thats why they say godspeed...
I dont think we we really understand Eternity at all. This whole attempt is like trying to put infinity in a test tube. That is a contradiction and a logically impossibility.
What is time
That is easy: it is what your clock measures.
You might have failed physics 201 ;)
If God has no beginning, how god arrived in a point to create universe 😣, because there was a time when the universe has not been existed and there is time when the universe does exist
Infinity has no beginning or end. The creation of this physical universe doesn’t effect infinity, it’s a small point in an endless line of a constant variable, the passing through of moments. Things will still continue to happen when this reality is destroyed. Gods viewpoint of the present moment is everything all at once. Our view of the past/present is limited because we cannot see outside the confines of time itself nor can we even fully comprehend time. God is all knowing. If Time does not effect or limit God He can create things that are temporary while still remaining unaffected by it. When did God create? In the beginning of what we would know as previous events. For God it could have been immediately or 10B+ years it’s all the same from His perspective.
Time is equal to zero if nothing exist. So that zero would seem instant in nothing to an outside observer
In human terms God is like the Quantum Theory. If you understand Quantum Physics
Close enough, except he’s personal
Yes he is personal as well Omnipresent.
Sorry the Quantum Theory was a bad example. No-one understands Quantum Theory very true...
Is God then all-knowing?
Yes
2:30 well hell is eternal so evil existing forever isn’t really an issue here is it?
How do you know that hell will imply evil rather than just justice.
When we say time is real, it means that God set it in such a way that an event is irrevokable so that you watch what you decide to do, since the consequence of which you will face inescapably. You all here who keep saying time is an illusion, just show that you can undo what you did yesterday or few minutes ago, then I'll believe you.
None of what you said makes sense. So the whole point of existence is to be monitored and watch what you do?
There's nothing God can't do except sin I was thinking of an example I've used before let's say your looking at a picture of the beach with a lot of people in the picture dated early 20th century and you look at some people in the picture and they seem to be interested in a conversation and you say I wonder what those people were taking about and I'm not saying he would do it but God says to you you want to know what they were talking about and all of a sudden your on that beach it's hot it's early 20th century and your listening to the conversation of those people I. Not saying he would do that but he could cause the God I serve is awesome forever all powerful
hahah I am so torn on this view of God and logic limiting him. In one sense I disagree with Dr Craig that God could be limited in any way by logic, making him subject to some platonic realm but I also apply a very similar argument when it comes to moral reasoning, where I don't believe God "would" choose to command violence and then it's opposite over the two testaments. The "would" and "could" seem to be very key differences though.
Craig _needs_ to believe God is limited by logic. His God needs to be that small do he can keep holding onto his certainty and not be scared that death is the end of it all. So childish.
wow no talk about physics when discussing time. we already figured out time, its the speed of light or rather the speed of causality, we understand the relationship between time and matter inside the quantum fields of space.
2nd law of thermodynamics
Physics studies time from within, in it's operation. Philosophy of time studies time from without and its existence. Physics is interesting but not going to address the question of what is time in relation to eternal God.
@@andyb619 ok I know I said (inside the quantum fields) but the reality of it is not that's simple as Thiers literally nothing outside of them
Just smoke a joint and let it be
That's what I say
Nah, you wouldn't watch this kind of stuff if you had such an approach :)
How about taking a cold shower, look through a telescope and think a little deeper
@@mikeclancy741 when I just started understanding space time and theory of relativity that's when I smoked a joint and said holy crap this is crazy wierd.
Sick bro
7:56 it follows God has no free will: no change, no alternatives, thus, no free will.
The fallacy concerning the eternity of biblical god is one of the most delusional matter people will face in the next future.
Hi, Lawrence.
A new and great ideas about what is Space and Time are discussed in a book called - My Quest to Understand Everything, which is available on Amazon.
In this book there are many other ideas of theoretical physics too, such as what is aether, where do we come from, what are and how work black holes, does free will exist, which is more credible from two theories, namely, flat earth and hollow earth theory... etc...
Also, what is the true pattern of Magnetic field and how it works. Also, how electromagnetism causes the rotations of everything in space.
There are soooooo many ideas in this book. And you can discuss those ideas in your videos, starting with what is and how looks the true pattern of Magnetic field. I have never seen you addressing this with any of your guests...
I see God (in order to exist) as needing to have his own 2nd time dimension, where we just have one. Just like 3D concepts as inside and outside don't work in 4 dimensional space, so does past present and future and 'moments' not work in God's 2nd time dimension. We see it as timeless, where in that dimension God has his own dynamicism. We just cannot fathom the reality of the second time dimension, just as 3 dimensional beings cannot fathom a 4 dimensional space, or a 2 dimensional being cannot fathom a 3 dimensional world.
French Frys On the contrary, if there is a God - then anything and everything is evidence for God’s existence. So if you want to derive that God exists, then anything is evidence for God’s existence. Pointing to a descriptive model of whatever flavor and saying that it explains something is to precisely not explain anything. So contrary to your conclusion that there is zero evidence, there is nearly limitless evidence.
@French Frys Having no evidence for God doesn't mean you can't think about it. I find it interesting. There is logic to be thrown at it until it has been fully disproved. If logic doesn't work anymore on the problem, then yes I'd agree you should stop thinking about it.
On another note there is no evidence for me (or anybody) of your consciousness. Still you don't doubt you have it. Btw I'm not religious
Please enjoy thinking outside of the box for a little while. It can be very enjoyable. Maybe you do all the time, but just feel this is a subject out of touch. But according to the ancient philosophers, this is just another logical problem. Enjoy it
@French Frys I am on no quest to prove the existence of God or what so ever. But to entertain the thought that there is something beyond our Big Bang or just the mere concept of space and time. I like the comparison of Spinoza in this matter: that mind and matter are only two expressions of the unlimited expressions of God. But we can not experience them becaus we do not share anything with those expressions. This means I don't think of God as a person, as you obviously naively do, but a construct of higher 'something' above our space and time.
I have no proof for the existence of God. I am only trying to make logical restrictions with current knowledge, that IF he exists, he needs to comply to certain terms. The more we know, the more we know what God Is NOT like I guess. You don't sound like a thinker or philosophically inclined person who likes to think outside of the box of his own limited self and his experience.
@French Frys For instance I think God, if he exists, cannot be in time (which means our dimension of time), for then he would stand next to us, look at the Traveling Salesman Problem, and shrug his shoulder and not be able to help you whatsoever as he in time cannot solve the NP-hard problem any faster than you can. He has the same ingredients, but in time is not able to calculate it any faster than you do, as he is limited by time now just like you. This means, if he wants to be omniscient and know the solution to your problem instantly (and give this as a prediction to you as a God can), he needs infinite time in which he can compute the problem, or live in a dimension where time duration has no meaning.
That's all I said
@French Frys Also did you know your favorite scientific tool, that you're probably mentally using in this case, Ockham's razor, was invented by him to prove God's existence?
See, another case how something useless as thinking about God can turn into something fruitful...
I disagree with William Lane Craig. For God to have perfect knowledge of our lives, he has to experience our lives within time as we do. In other words, we are each an aspect of God experiencing our life within time. God ALSO exists eternally, outside of time. God exists BOTH within time as he experiences the lives of every conscious being AND transcendent to time. ***I see no contradiction.*** If God couldn't experience time, he wouldn't know everything. For God to have perfect, total knowledge, understanding, and experience, he has to experience being within time as well as eternity.
May I ask how you came to the conclusion that a god even exists?
simple: God/Logos is THE WORD (JOHN1:1), like A Super Computer, everything is counted. our lifetime are mp3/songs & video inside the computer. God already knew/saw everything perfectly. Jesus can see our soul & knows our mind before we say anything. He can see through our body. we are human trapped in body/material & time of earth. but Jesus Godly Mind is beyond time, He's already saw everything far in the future & tell it to disciples! Jesus is God who gives prophecy & control history. Jesus is the Centre of time & world & history, BC & AD! JESUS IS YHWH ALPHA&OMEGA AMEN! 😊🙏
the sea of forgetfullness ?????micah 7 .19
Pretty hilarious!!!
Summary: No one knows.
god's eternity is all about killing universes everyday eternity after eternity in hell, and the other gods's eternity also serial killers in infinity of lifes
Is there a god is is All I can say to you. You just wait to your on your death bed what you will see. Please get rid of that. Is there a God? He is showing you that he is a God or powerful. I am a near death experience. Listen to us.
Thank you for your wonderful program. I love them God bless whatever you are on mother. Earth
I have heard more than a few of Craig's talks and debates. I am very unimpressed.
Likewise. I try not to think negative thoughts about his pronouncements and where they come from, but it's a challenge. I'm convinced it's not entirely a personality issue.
I am facinated how 11.28 min can be an infinetely moronic
If god knows the future he must know I will never, not in a million years, believe in his existence. Therefore he knows I am doomed to burn in hell for all eternity for not feeling the need to delude myself. I think I’ve wasted enough of the limited time I have even thinking about this shit.
Life is but a hiccup of consciousness between oblivions.
Psychic Network Debris.
This guy has lucifer speaking in his ear ! Lord we can see the doubt and always looking to question You LORD ! He doesnt answer to us we answer to GOD
Eternity is not a long time . Eternity is God is no tense.
I once heard WLC try to scientifically prove that Jonah lived in the stomach of a whale for 3 days. Enough Said
Lol
Your point is?
Mohamed Taqi you don’t think God could’ve allowed a whale to swallow him up?
Mohamed Taqi
the Bible doesn’t specify whether it was a whale, large fish, etc.
you also said that MOST whales eat zooplankton, microorganisms and not typically humans.
Mohamed Taqi interesting point you bring up with “could have”.
It could have not happened.
The Bible says it did and it was a large fish.
So taking it for face value it’s relatively clear that it was a fish or something of the like.
If God exists, and can create the whole universe with his voice, then I think he can make a whale swallow a man.
I'd like to use an analogy to describe God. That analogy is a dream. When you fall asleep at night and dream, your consciousness does something miraculous. A whole world springs into being - full of objects, scenery, and other entities. It is immersive - you are convinced you are there. If you lucid dream, you can discover that you are both 'the dreamer' and 'in the dream' at the same time. This shows us another property of consciousness - it is fractal in nature. Yet as soon as you awaken, you realize that the entirety of the dream (even a distorted sense of time) took place in your consciousness. There never was anything else... every other object, person, etc. in the dream has its ground of being in your consciousness.
Lets take those same properties and up their potency to infinity. Now instead of dreaming a world, you dream an infinite universe. The dream is so immersive that you never doubt it for a second. The dream lasts 'trillions of years'... but for the consciousness dreaming it there is nothing to that passage of time. Lucid dreamers in this dream make strange statements like "I am the son of God" or "I and the father are one" or "Atman is Brahmen, and thou are that". Their writings would say things like "God is the source and ground of all being".
If you look carefully, I just described a God that is both Immanent and transcendent. As both the dreamer of the dream, and every character in the dream this God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. The only thing that doesn't fit this picture is 'you' - that sense of separate self. If you study eastern religions, that is exactly what they tell you is the illusion. If you study Christianity you find sayings like "It is not I that live, but Christ that lives in me", or we must "die to self". If you take psychedelics, wander in the desert for 40 days / 40 nights, meditate and calm your Ego, or have a near death experience then you feel 'one with everything'. Your separate self dies, unity with the divine is realized... and then you come back to spread that love to all the rest of creation... still asleep.
So here you are, convinced you are Will or Bob or Suzy or whoever. God (if he exists) never shows himself. Those mystics... just spouting gibberish. When you dream, you ignore them... someday science may figure out why - you're just 'processing'. You won't touch psychedelics... cause brain damage obviously. But hey - you got science, and that will show you all kinds of information about the contents of the dream. Why you live? who knows - why you die? who knows. One thing is for sure though, this is 'reality' and no one is pulling the wool over your eyes. You aren't a part of God, a piece of his infinite imagination, a form in the eternal dream - you're YOU! So sleep well and keep on dreaming.
Dreams may have a distortion of one's perception of time, but dreams still require temporal progression. When one dreams, the dream starts, occurs, and stops. God, in this analogy, is still temporally located.
@@matthewlallinger9603 God is BOTH temporally located (in the form of everything in the dream) and also NOT temporally located (in the formlessness of the infinite, eternal consciousness dreaming it all). A analogy to that is when you have a realistic dream that seems to take several hours or days of 'time' passing in your dream, but we know that the entire thing took place during REM sleep (approximately 2 hr window of sleep in an average night).
To me, this is one of the qualities of consciousness. It CAN experience time in the 'normal' fashion, but perception of time can be sped up, slowed down, or stopped completely (as occurs in dreamless sleep). If we accept the premise that put forward - that God IS Consciousness - then as the dreamer God's perspective of time can be any and all of these states.
Of course the easy(ish) test is the mystical experience. Go have one - it will modify your perspective of time, showing it to be part of the illusion of this shared reality.
@@brentonbrenton9964
*"NOT temporally located (in the formlessness of the infinite, eternal consciousness dreaming it all)"*
You use the tensed word "dreaming" because dreaming is a tensed activity. Both the dream and the one dreaming have to be located in time, with modified perception. You even admit this yourself when you say *" but perception of time can be sped up, slowed down, or stopped completely (as occurs in dreamless sleep)."* You imply only dreamless sleep involves the total lack of temporal perception. Nevertheless, lack of temporal perception does not imply a lack of objective tense. Even when I sleep, I still exist within time.
This is like trying to prove fiction using facts;
WLC: "I don't know what I'm talking about, so I'll just say things that sound right to me and hope that no one notices"
RLK: "That's just great"
I love it how relativity and quantum mechanics can make sense out of evil and suffering problem. It's easy to imagine universe came from nothing, but than it's very hard to explain why all life is suffering, universe would work about the same without it.
We could also say, condition of life is to feel physical changes in it's environment, and those are always painful sensations, even if senses and thoughts just distract illusive substance of consciousness in slightest way, it's still annoying and cant be prevented. And evil can scale up to infinity, one can just exist, suffer terrible agony and die, without any purpose and nobody to notice, like nothing ever happened, except for a poor soul. We are lucky and can choose, not like prehistoric trees living for millennia and slowly turning into stone, but way better than smaller animals all around us, specially those already exterminated and extinct. Some bugs live only one day and turtles can last hundreds of years, those experience most agony trough their long lives. Life exist so long we are actually standing on it, all living turned to soil, covering barren rocks, made from pure elements and fusion inside explosion of a star.
It is very hard to imagine all this exist in mind of a single entity, trying to make sense of his own great idea, but this is what we want, it seems. This is explained in myth of a primordial paradise, when first Adam and Eve asked a big question. How is all that eternal beauty and perfection possible, who build it and why, from what, where is it and what is it's purpose? Now we know, i ques, or somebody is about to after they solve last puzzles and return universe into it's ideal and ever lasting form. So if we ever meet in some new paradise, no more stupid questions please, just shut up and enjoy.
God could be a singularity than, it surrounds entire universe and everything there is is created from it. Or we could reverse the problem in another way, my thoughts are timeless, but i am material and temporal, so maybe God is just the opposite. What we think of matter is God's thoughts and what we experience as time space is his body. This way he could be temporal and non material, but still real and present at once. And his form is magical singularity, it's like nothing, and we know nothing is devoid of all qualita, including time, without any geometry and borders. From God's point of view, everything is still the same singularity substance, except this existance is what it takes to form a perfect universe, where entropy is in a perfect balance with Maxwell's demons. Atheists will love that idea :)
@@vids595 You missed most important element in this story, space time is material body of a God, our material world are his thoughts. This way he can reconcile with temptations of his own creation, like he found a way to put all that nothing into a good use. Universe is not a Lego blocks, particles are vibrating and constantly exchange pulses, you can't just stuck them and leave the game.
Hey, this is another interesting idea, what if we received holly scriptures to late, they might be traveling to Earth for billions of years and story of resurrection is already over, God is long dead, universe is left to his self aware creations and this is how we manage now without him.
Singularity could became anything, you see, it's like a magic dust that can even turn into another, completely different dimension and time travel in multiple universes.
Why don’t you guys ever discuss G-d with Noahides or Jews? The original monotheists. You only discuss G-d with idol worshipping Christians. So odd. Get Dr Gerald Schroeder on here!
He has interviewed many jewish scholars and philosophers. .
www.closertotruth.com/search/site/Jewish
Craig is an example of a waste of brilliance. It's fascinating how desperately he clings to that gymnastics bar.
I feel at some point here, its sounding like a similar argument to dissecting scientifically how Santa is able to simultaneously deliver presents 🎁 around the world all in one night.
Santa is timeless and tempural all at once....lol. We are trying to quantify fairytales here.
The hoops religious people need to jump through in order to try to reason their position...
No not really. Its quite comforting and freeing to know Jesus. In fact all hoops disappear.
@Zeke Bean There is nothing wrong with history and science. But if you are objective and dive deep into all sciences, philosophies and history you actually become a Christian with EVEN MORE CLARITY
@Zeke Bean I have studied the sciences and histories for most of my adult life. I have been through most philosophies and beliefs and earlier in my life i scorned Christianity and religion but after all my journey I came home to Christ. It made the most sense and it felt like home. I do not take the bible literally but after listening to discourses, debates and researching the resurrection of our father I could not refute this truth. He rose from the dead. I woke up to the profound truth that all the universe, all the engery, all the dimensions, all the love, all the evolotuion, all the power that is nature and creation humbled itself to live a human life then die and rise again. Lifting the veil. I understand your perspective coming from a scientific mindset and world history. To me science and religion are blurring together. A divine creator makes the most sense. At least to me. Happy New Year. May you answer Jesus's call one day.
This dude & his 🍗 chit is a good 🤣🤣
He keeps saying “HE”... I just need to stop watching this. Bottom line none of us know if there is a God-period the end.
But God whispers in his ear that Christianity is true. It's the devil that tells him it's not. So, my dear friend, you are clearly being blinded into confusion by Satan...
Vaul, Dog Warrior I am lucky to have been raised a free spirt and not be coerced by others concepts of God. I am able to think freely without the fear mongering from others and have my own relationship and understanding of what a god might be, if there is one. My heart, spirt, mind is filled with the concept and experience of love that no human can take from me regardless of what they believe or think I should believe. Merry Christmas if that is what you believe, and if not enjoy your journey on this earth and walk on the many paths with an open mind, grace and love. Peace
@@Mr.eTrain007 If Christianity were true, would you follow Jesus?
Craig *claims* to have had personal divine revelation. Which basically makes his argument based of garbage.
@@Mastermindyoung14 You're ignoring the other 4 lines of objective evidence.
He mentions that last point, only because, Christianity is a personal relationship with God- a religion in the second person.
Don't be disingenuous and believe that's his only line of evidence for God.
This fundamentalist theologian is a joke. No one should be calling him a philosopher. He's a fundamentalist in a philosopher's robe. He holds to the completely discredited theory of Divine Illumination for goodness sake. He thinks angels and demons whisper in his ear telling him to either keep believing the truth or to reject it (I'm not kidding, I have the video proof). Which of course he knows by divine illumination to be one of the forms of the 40k versions of modern Christianity...
Rubbish bring on Dikap Copra he comes near to the truth..
Sorry, can't take him seriously. Looks like some Steve Martin character. In the other hand i could listen to David Bentley Hart all day long. Fascinating mind.
That tell us much about your aptitude.
William Lane Craig still alive and relevant? I am really surprise
Perhaps his relevance is his greatest concern.
Silly. You can experience time in a dream that can last a lifetime. Then wake up in 15 mins that has passed. Time is a perception, not fundamental to reality. Come on guys. This isn't rocket science. 😊
Perception of time isn't fundamental to reality, but time passes at different rates in different environments, so it is part of reality.
@@jedicharls Hi. This might be a semantic thing. Even in the waking state "environment" the perception of time is highly variable. I'm sure you recall almost having an accident in which your perception of time changed drastically. Even special relativity shows this for travellers travelling at different speeds. Their perception of time is different and their clocks run at slightly different times. In fact, near the speed of light, time stops.
All we can say from personal experience and science is that time is not fundamental regardless of your "environment". It just another relative perception like space.😊
Watch "Huw Price - Is Time Fundamental?" on RUclips
ruclips.net/video/xvkuJdF1k3c/видео.html
@@jedicharls Hi again. In fact it's worse than that. Quantum mechanics is our best, most verified science. It says, not only is time kind of an illusion, so is space and matter. This is very non intuitive but the thousands of DS experiments show this to be true.
It turns out our reality or environment is more like a virtual reality, not fundamental. Religious language calls this the "dream" of God or life. But, science also agrees things are not what they appear to be. There is something fundamental (doesn't come and go) underlying our perception of reality that is timeless, spaceless, and matterless. Science and religion use different words but the meaning is similar. Regardless what kind of language you use the implication is clear. We live in a kind of "virtual reality" here. Thanks for the dialogue. 😊
Watch "The DS Experiment Intro" on RUclips
ruclips.net/video/MS8CvNonMEQ/видео.html
Closer To Truth is massively wandering away from what's true. I know because the almighty just spoKKKe directly to me, all super-personal & it said so.
I do try to listen to him as I figure you should make an effort to listen to those who you disagree with. But I just can't - the lazy thinking, the dishonesty, the appeals to intuition. I can't stand listening to this liar.
Graham Black ok
WLC: "God is spaceless and timeless"
If you are spaceless, you are nowhere
If you are timeless, you are never
If you are nowhere and never, then you don't exist.
@@nikokapanen82
Doesn't 'spaceless' mean 'without space'?
How can you be everywhere when you are without space?
This is like two lads in a psych ward having a chat with tin foil hats on their heads 😂
Instead of trying to reconcile the impossible how about you use occums razor - it is all a load of nonsense
You sound deranged. Seek mental health and bathe.
@@misterbobo8139 was that for me?
I find William Craig............er....... a little disturbing.......to say the least.
That's alright many millions find him as a brilliant man that has done his research
Perhaps because he conveys the impression that his greatest concern is his own relevance.
@@dbz739921 Many millions also voted for Trump.
William Lane Craig xD
Getting further from the truth. Gibberish
Great input Dave
if god existed... and it doesn't... then all gods would exist, and if all gods existed then there are a multitude of answers to every question. WLC keeps digging in his quicksand hole. And like the last crocodile in the mud puddle he will die like the rest of us. merry festivus .
as much bs as I wrote is only topped by your bs. congrats. religions are the story of the people who told them. Most if not all groups are groups because of the stories they tell about: who we are, how we got here and why we should care. Tawa, the sun spirit. Tawa is the creator, and it was he who formed the "First World" out of Tokpella, or endless space, as well as its original inhabitants.[4] It is still traditional for Hopi mothers to seek a blessing from the sun for their newborn children.[5] Other accounts have it that Tawa, or Taiowa, first created Sotuknang, whom he called his nephew, and sent him to create the nine universes according to his plan. Sotuknang also created Spider Woman, who served as a messenger for the creator and was an intercessor between the deity and the people. In some versions of the Hopi creation myth, it is she who creates all life under the direction of Sotuknang.[6] Yet other stories tell that life was created by Hard Being Woman of the West and Hard Being Woman of the East, while the sun merely observed the process.[7][8]
Masauwu, Skeleton Man, was the Spirit of Death, Earth God, door keeper to the Fifth World, and the Keeper of Fire. He was also the Master of the Upper World, or the Fourth World, and was there when the good people escaped the wickedness of the Third World for the promise of the Fourth.[9] Masauwu is described as wearing a hideous mask, but again showing the diversity of myths among the Hopi, Masauwu was alternately described as a handsome, bejewelled man beneath his mask or as a bloody, fearsome creature. He is also assigned certain benevolent attributes.[10] One story has it that it was Masauwu who helped settle the Hopi at Oraibi and gave them stewardship over the land. He also charged them to watch for the coming of the Pahana (see section below), the Lost White Brother.[11] Other important deities include the twin war gods, the kachinas, and the trickster, Coyote.
Maize is vital to Hopi subsistence and religion. "For traditional Hopis, corn is the central bond. Its essence, physically, spiritually, and symbolically, pervades their existence. For the people of the mesas corn is sustenance, ceremonial object, prayer offering, symbol, and sentient being unto itself. Corn is the Mother in the truest sense that people take in the corn and the corn becomes their flesh, as mother milk becomes the flesh of the child."[12]
Your particular god is one that occurred in the middle east where Zoroastrians were the ruling religious elite. It morphed and evolved until the romans trashed their village. In order to keep their story the survivors morphed the religion to explain what happened. the jesus story happened which has morphed into as many as 1.5 billion personal religions who interpret that story in different ways. Your personal religion is nothing more than you saying, I'm right and everybody I disagree with is wrong. Take you ball and go home.
@@ronjohnson4566 Very rude and conceited, coming from a person supposedly well versed in religions. Empty vessels...
So if this is how God sees time, how do humans have free will? Dr Craig believes God views time in a B-theory sort of way, yet humans have free will. How is that possible? This God idea is always ill-defined, and that's why's it always ultimately makes no actual sense.
Craig actually promotes the idea of Molinism when it comes to the problem of free will vs. Predestination, which he didn't go into in this talk, see...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism?wprov=sfla1
Because you have thoughts and can make decisions without an outside force making them for you. You are not a robot, which is programmed to act based on conditions only. Shalom
@@onestepaway3232 Despite the fact that God already has perfect knowledge of all time? How exactly can you act outside this "block" of time Dr Craig speaks of in this video? You can't! The free will itself is an illusion, just like temporal becoming is an illusion on the B theory of time.
@@vpconroy The idea of "middle knowledge" entails that there are things God does not certainly know until they are actualised. That, what he knows are the POSSIBILITIES of the "choices" that a "free" creature can make. This could be somewhat permissible (though there'd still be problems) only if we presuppose the A theory of time with respect to God. If the B theory is true-which entails that not just possibilities are contained within spacetime, but CERTAINTIES-then I do not see how the "middle knowledge" still works. Free will still looks pretty much illusory.