curious your thoughts if Undefeated BYU faces Kansas State and looses in the big 12 championship game. similar situation to TCU a couple years ago.. in this scenario does a 1 loss BYU get left out?
I have to say, re: your take on targeting, its not just optics. It’s because kids aren’t playing football as much as they used to. My dad did but my parents didn’t let me. That will continue to be true for more and more kids each year unless they keep making progress on concussions
@Ermatinger503 exactly then the commentators all say the same cliché line ItS Not tO proTecT the offensive player its to protect the defensive player too. If that were really the case, then offensive player shouldn't be allowed to lower their heads either and initiate contact.
I agree imagine going for the legs and the guy literally lowers his head to get the call! I bet coaches are telling players to do this to get more yards!!
You are 1,000% correct Joel, the expanded playoff has made College Football BETTER, not worse, like so many morons before the season were saying it would
@@kevinbond8966eh, I think it’s proven itself already. It’s a blast knowing how many good teams are in the playoffs and not just four. There’s always a few team getting snubbed each year but now that’s over. If anything changes maybe an 8 team playoff? But 12 is fun so far.
@@kevinbond8966 no, there's no need to wait, it's already proven: we have more schools playing meaningful games late in October than ever before. How some old-heads try to spin that as a bad thing is absolutely ridiculous.
@@thecrazynodak After the first year of the 4 team playoff I liked it. Didn't know how bad it was until a couple years In. Same could be true for the 12 team playoff.
Joel, I dont know if you'll see this, but I want you to know i appreciate and probably watch you more because of your close. You almost if not always end with saying God Bless or something like it and are willing to talk about things like your medical team praying for you. Stay real and keep the faith. God Bless.
Massive Michigan fan, as much as I love stupid optimism, I’ll take last years natty and be happy with a simple bowl win this year. All time greatness would be beating Ohio to keep them out of the playoff.
Michigan isn't a "Passing Team". They are a "Running Team"........which means they won't be able to score enough points to keep up with good "Passing Offensive Teams". Oregon, Ohio State, & Indiana are "Passing Teams" (and 3 of the 4 Teams left on their 2024 Schedule) who customarily put up Big Points against their Opponents. Indiana for example hasn't trailed at ANY point in ANY of their Games because Mike Shanahan (Indiana Offensive Coordinator) has that Offense HUMMIN'!!!!! If the 2023 Michigan Team had to play the 2024 Michigan Team's Schedule..........the 2023 Michigan Team would NOT have gone "undefeated" OR won the National Championship. The 2023 Wolverines got the benefit of a very SOFT schedule.
The highest scoring FBS offense Indiana has faced was Maryland, which ranks 69th. The other 6 rank 95th, 98th, 100th, 102nd, 124th, and 127th. That might affect margin of victory just little bit. That DOES NOT mean they're bad. But there's always something left out.
Also, Oregon has been turning the second halves of some games into casual practice sessions, going vanilla in the 3rd, working on stuff, getting their depth some snaps. They could have hung 50+ on Illinois. Comparing teams who might need style points to those that don't is problematic.
Good afternoon, Joel, and greetings from Northeast Florida. I am a misplaced Buckeye fan and Columbus native, living in SEC country for 35 years now. But my comment relates to breakfast. If you should, by some weird happenstance, find yourself in Mobile Alabama covering a USA (University of South Alabama) game, there is a Hampton Inn in downtown Mobile that serves fresh - I mean FRESH - beignets for breakfast. These things come out still warm, with just the slightest perfect amount of lemon, and actually do melt in your mouth. I am not kidding! So, just for future reference. Love your show, and your guest appearances on The Herd. I find your mostly impartial POV refreshing and I always learn something new about the game. I never played, but I was the lead drummer in my high school band, so at least I got to go out on the field.
I'm glad there was a chance to get the targeting call reviewed and vacated. This is the third time this season an Ohio State player was ejected for targeting, and in approximately zero of those were they genuinely headhunting.
Y’all have had one of the hardest schedules so don’t feel bad. There’s definitely a few games y’all should have won but it’s all good. I love watching Michigan football and I’m not even a fan but win the running game is working it’s a ton of fun to watch. Just need some passing game and y’all would be hard to beat.
Sometimes this dudes views can be wild but i gotta say this is the most realistic view I’ve seen so far. I absolutely agree and I think everything he said is going to happen
As a a UNLV fan this expansion has definitely elevated my watching experience. I feel as if we have a legitimate shot even with 2 losses and every down matters.
Joel the praying moment hit me so hard!! Praise God I know it's hard for students, athletes, and even coaches but God is the one !! Thank you for that moment!
That doesn’t leave enough to let 3 big 10 or sec teams with 2-3 losses in & you know they are gonna do what they can to make that happen but Kstate & byu should both definitely get in if they both wins out the rest of regular season & byu loses to k state in the conference championship.
@@Bman6464 tissue paper haha. BYU beat SMU and K-State. Iowa State beat Iowa, which most of the teams in the B1G were also bragging about 5 minutes ago. Other than Oregon, Ohio State, Penn State, Texas and Tennessee there really isn’t much difference between the big 12 and the other three power conferences. I’d argue that the big 12 is better than the ACC today right now. My point is, if you takeoff the top teams in the Big Ten and SEC, the conferences are almost identical, which is hilarious, because of how much more the middle tier SEC and Big Ten teams make. It’s actually kind of pathetic.
OK ST > Arkansas > Tenn > Alabama > Georgia. That’s a real thing. The WORST big 12 team has a transitive win over Georgia. The big dogs in the SEC are not immortal this year, and the rest of you ride their coattails while playing high school teams in November.
@@Bman6464Just say you've never even watched a big 12 game and don't know anything about the top teams in that conference.🙄🙄🙄 I can't WAIT for some of these teams to prove you and everyone like you wrong!
One of their losses was to a team that was at a point perceived by almost everyone to be the best team in the country. They have to play the current #1 team next week, #13 (and climbing) Indiana, and #4 Ohio State. If they win out, a 9-3 Michigan team showing clear leaps in improvement from the beginning of their season is in without question. Now the odds of them actually winning out and showing that leap in improvement is simply not foreseeable.
I agree with Klatt in terms of a realistic path to the playoff. With who michigan has left to play, if they win out, they can still find themselves in the B1G title game. If they win that, they are in. Where the realistic part is thrown out the window is thinking that Michigan can actually beat 4 top-10 teams (would have to face one again in the title game) to finish the year. It'd be a miraculous thing to just win one of those games. Also Michigan fan btw
Regarding targeting: if targeting is confirmed, make it a 30-yard penalty and let the offending players stay in the game at that point. If the player commits another targeting penalty in that same game or in two consecutive games, then the player can be ejected.
Alabama playing a High school team this late in the season should automatically disqualify them for any real consideration, especially while other teams play power school
Aside from Oregons win over osu who has a better win then bama dose over Georgia ? Were gonna see 3 or 4 teams from the big ten and sec thats how this is gonna go. bama is very much still in this
@@KadenRoberts-vd2bnGeorgia scheduled Clemson in the non-conference while Ohio State scheduled 3 cupcakes. Sorry, but that more than outweighs whatever “advantage” you think playing UMass in November gives Georgia.
@@mansionman777 I understand there's a lot of turnover in college football, I just meant that Narduzzi and Pitt have proven they're a program that can go toe to toe with the top teams in the conference and win. Is it likely they'll win the ACC? No, but to write them off completely after a 7-0 start with wins against 2 Big12 teams feels disrespectful, especially since Miami and Clemson haven't beaten anyone. Also, your point about the portal actually only helps a team like Pitt btw, as they now have significantly more former 4 stars than that 2021 team.
Canadian here: I love college football and have for many decades. I do agree that the playoff is good for the fan bases, but I don't believe it's good for players. If they're gonna have a 12 team playoff, cut the championship games: they're redundant. With this long season, the payments to players, and the transfer portal, college football has become a professional sports league, and these are college students 🤷.
If there's one thing that's ever certain its that Joel is going to get that plug of Hampton by Hilton in no matter what 😂 honestly my favorite part of each show is seeing how he's going to integrate it into the show 😂
I see two paths for 2 Big12 teams into the playoffs. The first is the one you outlined. The other is if BYU wins out, Kansas St wins out, and Kansas St beats BYU in the conference title game. Both would be 12-1 with both would have only 1 loss to each other.
It would take some chaos to get them in the big 12 title game. BYU has a very soft closing schedule (although they could very easily lose at ASU). If Kansas State beats Iowa State, Colorado is stuck behind both of them as well
New Rule for targeting should be: Targeting 1 (very agregious; obvious strike to the head/neck with helmet and led with helmet) 15 yards and ejection. Targeting 2: Little to some contact to head with shoulder or arms, did not lead with crown of helmet, does not meet requirement for targeting 1, 15 yard penalty. No ejection. Warning that a second Targeting 2 by the same player will result in an ejection.
@@damianpresha9833 Agreed. But you already know what's going to happen. Even though we are going to 12 Teams. There will still be teams that get a raw deal 🙄
Yes it is, those sec teams are not that good. Only teams to me in the sec is good is Texas, Georgia that’s it! Even Texas a&m is suspect and Tennessee is not all that because of there quarterback and that matters if Tennessee loses another game and colorado wins 10 games the committee is not going to take Tennessee over COlorado why because at the end of the day they still want to see certain teams in the playoffs who have stars on there teams and nobody can tell me otherwise they still want to make money. Boise if they win out will be in the playoffs because of jeanty! Colorado wins out colorado will be in the playoffs watch!!!
I so want to see Indiana (America's Team) shock the world by going to Columbus on November 23rd and beating Ohio State convincingly and then playing against Oregon in the CIG 10 Championship Game. Indiana (America's Team) is by far the most well coached team in the country and they are being seriously overlooked, underrated and disrespected by the oddsmakers. They are what is right about the game right now!
You don't understand. It's not realistic for Michigan to do it. 'Realistic' means it is possible and doesn't require other teams losing to make it possible. The only way a 9-3 team can make it in is if they are in the position Michigan is in. It's not that anyone really believes Michigan will do it, its that this scenario is the only realistic scenario for a 9-3 team. Why don't people understand this.
@@Mattw1014Aight so I think if we lose to A&M we definitely drop but unranked lmao? That’s just objectively not accurate lol. You’re telling me a 10-2 team would go from the 6-10 range to unranked because of losses to the current #2 team in the country and the current #1 team in SEC play? Not our fault two of our biggest opponents fell apart this year. Also, that was definitely not the same Georgia team as most of this season. That team hadn’t been seen since the Clemson game.
Even if Michigan went out and beat OSU and Oregon the Texas win over Michigan still wouldn't be a good win lol. Two different Michigan teams in that scenario
I think that 2nd interpretation of Targeting is fine. It protects players AND specifically says defenseless and “head or neck area”. He hit the Nebraska player in the chest and shoulder. The problem is bad refereeing, as is the case with most problems in the game.
100% agree on the targeting. If the player is initiating the tackle, and the WR or RB goes low, thats on them. If they guy is going to tackle the WR at the waist, but he trips or falls bent over or something, whats the player to do, defy physics? Let him catch the ball? c'mon man, this rule longs needs an overhaul.
One venue for any team to make the playoffs is an advantage in scheduling. Start with a easy team and finish with a easy team. In the middle play your conference opponents and a top ten team and, of course, cannot loose more than one game.
Idk if it has anything to do with corruption, but I do think there is a cognitive bias. Officiating across the board has been abysmal this year though, so it could just be a bad year for officials.
What do you do if: Kansas State beats Iowa State and gives them their only loss. They are then 11-1. Kansas State goes to the Big 12 championship game against a 12-0 BYU and then somehow they beat BYU. Now you have (2) 12-1 Big 12 teams and (1) 11-1 Big 12 team. You think they would take a 3 loss Michigan over a one loss Iowa State? An Iowa State team who beat Iowa on the road, who then beat Washington...who was responsible for one of those 3 Michigan losses? You would have a 12-1 conference champion, a 12-1 runner up (who beat the conference champion during the season) and then an 11-1 Iowa State team.
He only threw that in to justify leaving out WSU, the one (and only one) team with a Top 25 SOR and Top 25 probability of making the playoff he omitted. Can't have a non affiliated institution getting recognition, especially after they waxed his Buffs last year.
Illinois doesn’t have a realistic path because their best win would be Michigan, but also Michigan is maybe good enough to be a playoff team. Solid logic.
I think way less 10-2 teams will make it then we originally thought cuz teams just aren’t losing this year like we normally see. Still a lot of unbeaten teams.
I knew he was going say Michigan. Their resume would be insane if they did that. Funny thing is: it’s possible. If week 1 Oregon shows up, anything is possible.
Let's go with a 32 team playoff, then how many would still be in contention? If the most teams is "the" measurement, let's have a "big dance" of 32 teams and a NIT tournament for teams 33-64. Maybe 100+ teams are still in contention. WOW! That is awesome. Shorten regular season by two games and play more playoff games. Let's do that. (Sarcasm)
I agree with the targeting sentiment. 1 only watch 3/4 games a weekend but it seems like 2-3 ejections a week and there are a 100 other games... Is it having a big impact?
Brother its not that Michigan has a realistic chance to make it, its that their scenario allows for a realistic chance for a 9-3 team to make it. There is a real difference there. But yes, the fact that it exists and is talked about still exhausts me too
Every 2-loss P4 team is still alive. They may not entirely control their destiny, but it makes no sense to eliminate teams who still have a shot at their conference championship.
If both the ball carrier and defender lower their head, either you eject both guys with an offsetting penalty, replaying the down. Or you eject neither, keep the flag in your pocket.
If Texas is 10-2 with losses to Georgia and Texas A&M. They would have no marquee wins. If Michigan goes 7-5 or 6-6. That would still be their best win.
They will still get in just on expectations of them being good, but I’m with you they SHOULD be one of the first on the chopping block if they lose to TAMU but they probably won’t be.
I couldn’t agree more with klatt about the targeting penalties, I’ve been saying this since they put the rule in place, there should be 2 versions of this penalty, first is a personal foul: targeting 15 yards and a first down The 2nd should be a flagrant or malicious targeting, where the refs feel like a player maybe deliberately or intentionally lead with his helmet and hit the other player in the head or whatever, and this one should have the same penalties but also include an ejection, it’s just like the roughing or running into the kicker penalty 1 is deemed to be really unsafe for the kicker and could lead to injury so it’s a much bigger penalty, they other is a, accidents happen type penalty, here’s 5 yards. It should have been so simple Also if u adjust the targeting penalty this one, u still have to optics if we are cracking down on flagrant fouls and incentivizing keeping players safer.
I can't believe how every single analyst believes going to the conference championship game at a neutral site against a REALLY good team (B10 and SEC) is easier than skipping that game and winning the 5 vs 12 or 6 vs 11 game at home in the playoffs instead.
Gotta be honest, I know Fox loves their big noon games but Lions Buckeyes not being the night game and a white out is a huge scheduling miss. Instead you got what, A&M at South Carolina? That'll be a good game too but it's not the same
I don't have a problem with the targeting penalty as it exists, and I think ejection is appropriate -- I don't think the call would have enough of a bite otherwise.
What’s really crazy is if Indiana and Penn St both go undefeated AND both beat Ohio State by 2 or more, they play for the Big 10 championship and Oregon would be undefeated and STILL get left out of the BIG10 champ game.
@ Penn St/Oregon/Indiana all don’t play each other so the could all finish undefeated with wins over OSU. Someone posted the tie breakers and the first one that would apply to this situation is margin of victory of a common opponent. Oregon only beat OSU by 1. So if the other two win that game by more than 1 point, they’d get in on the weird tie breaker.
@@cocorobinson3557 @cocorobinson3557 I Can't find that, looks like tiebreaker 4 is the first to apply, cumulative wins of each teams conference opponents, right now Indiana is at a slight disadvantage , they need NW and NEB to finish strong, and hope WIS loses some , Takes 3 undefeated for this to matter.
Pitt @ 7-0 is on pace to have three 9+ win seaons out the last 4 with an ACC championship, hiesman finalist, & a biletnikoff awed winner sprinkled into the mix. Pitt isnt an upstart, & were as real a contender as anyone else in the ACC Clemson, Miami, & SMU havent beaten anyone better than Pitt has. Pitt could also get blownout to Georgia if thats what it takes to be an "ACC Contender", i mean we already beat Cal close.
Using the same logic you used for Michigan, wouldn’t you have to include Florida too? They’d be 9-3 with wins over Georgia, Texas, LSU, and Ole Miss. Not saying it’s possible, but you should at least be consistent in your reasoning.
100% you're right. I think he either forgot Florida or had enough SEC teams to talk about already. Plus, Michigan's losses aren't THAT bad. Worst is Washington and obviously the Illinois and Texas losses aren't that bad.
How can Joel include Michigan but not Florida? If Florida by some miracle wins out, beating Georgia, Texas, LSU, and Ole Miss along the way, they’d probably get in. Florida’s got no chance of winning all of those games, but Michigan has 0 chance of beating each of Oregon, Indiana, and Ohio State as well. In fact most power ratings have Florida above Michigan. We can be done with Michigan. They had a great 3 year run that culminated in a title. Everybody’s gone, they’re not even a shell of what they were in 2021, let alone 2023. They have a 0% chance of winning out, just like Florida. Either put both on here, or put neither.
Again, it's not about how realistic it is for Florida or Michigan to win out. It's about the realistic scenario for a 9-3 team to make it in. That said, I agree that Florida should have been spoken in the same form as Michigan here. My honest opinion is that there were enough SEC teams on the list today that Joel didn't bother talking about Florida. But you're right that it's the same scenario.
What are your predictions for the playoffs?
curious your thoughts if Undefeated BYU faces Kansas State and looses in the big 12 championship game. similar situation to TCU a couple years ago.. in this scenario does a 1 loss BYU get left out?
Wow what a brutal remaining schedule for Michigan. That would be impressive if they could get a win (outside of northwestern)
Surprised no love for Washington St, even the ESPN playoff predictor has them with equal odds with Tulane.
I have to say, re: your take on targeting, its not just optics. It’s because kids aren’t playing football as much as they used to. My dad did but my parents didn’t let me. That will continue to be true for more and more kids each year unless they keep making progress on concussions
I predict that the teams that lose in the Power Four championship games are all in.
Thanks for answering my question Joel! Hearing those stories gets me super excited about my future career!
If Michigan won out Ohio state fans would fire Ryan Day into the sun
The expanded playoffs has made the season so much more enjoyable. Especially coming down the stretch
My problem with the targeting calls is that offensive players are allowed to lower their heads into defenders. Seems strange to me
Agreed. I’ve never understood why the rule is one sided.
@Ermatinger503 exactly then the commentators all say the same cliché line ItS Not tO proTecT the offensive player its to protect the defensive player too. If that were really the case, then offensive player shouldn't be allowed to lower their heads either and initiate contact.
How many times does the RB get away with a stiff arm hands to the face mask that needs to be called more
I think it’s because a defensive player is never really defenseless
I agree imagine going for the legs and the guy literally lowers his head to get the call! I bet coaches are telling players to do this to get more yards!!
You are 1,000% correct Joel, the expanded playoff has made College Football BETTER, not worse, like so many morons before the season were saying it would
Why don't you give it at least 1 or 2 full seasons before you make your mind up if it's good or bad.
I agree it’s great. So many more possibilities.
@@kevinbond8966eh, I think it’s proven itself already. It’s a blast knowing how many good teams are in the playoffs and not just four. There’s always a few team getting snubbed each year but now that’s over. If anything changes maybe an 8 team playoff? But 12 is fun so far.
@@kevinbond8966 no, there's no need to wait, it's already proven: we have more schools playing meaningful games late in October than ever before. How some old-heads try to spin that as a bad thing is absolutely ridiculous.
@@thecrazynodak After the first year of the 4 team playoff I liked it. Didn't know how bad it was until a couple years In. Same could be true for the 12 team playoff.
Joel, I dont know if you'll see this, but I want you to know i appreciate and probably watch you more because of your close. You almost if not always end with saying God Bless or something like it and are willing to talk about things like your medical team praying for you. Stay real and keep the faith. God Bless.
If Mich somehow won out the rest of the season, that'd be the wildest miracle of the century.
@@earnthis1 and Ryan Day would be fired
Yea I'm gonna put Michigan as a mathematically possible team, but 99% not gonna happen. I'm just hoping we win the bowl game.
@@AznCracker13 you forgot the .9
Massive Michigan fan, as much as I love stupid optimism, I’ll take last years natty and be happy with a simple bowl win this year.
All time greatness would be beating Ohio to keep them out of the playoff.
Michigan isn't a "Passing Team". They are a "Running Team"........which means they won't be able to score enough points to keep up with good "Passing Offensive Teams". Oregon, Ohio State, & Indiana are "Passing Teams" (and 3 of the 4 Teams left on their 2024 Schedule) who customarily put up Big Points against their Opponents. Indiana for example hasn't trailed at ANY point in ANY of their Games because Mike Shanahan (Indiana Offensive Coordinator) has that Offense HUMMIN'!!!!!
If the 2023 Michigan Team had to play the 2024 Michigan Team's Schedule..........the 2023 Michigan Team would NOT have gone "undefeated" OR won the National Championship. The 2023 Wolverines got the benefit of a very SOFT schedule.
I love that you said Missouri played only two "real teams," lol. I agree!
Lol they barely beat BC and Vanderbilt I guess those not real teams 😅
Alex, awesome question. I hope you go forth and impact lives 😎🤘🏾
The highest scoring FBS offense Indiana has faced was Maryland, which ranks 69th. The other 6 rank 95th, 98th, 100th, 102nd, 124th, and 127th. That might affect margin of victory just little bit.
That DOES NOT mean they're bad. But there's always something left out.
Also, Oregon has been turning the second halves of some games into casual practice sessions, going vanilla in the 3rd, working on stuff, getting their depth some snaps. They could have hung 50+ on Illinois.
Comparing teams who might need style points to those that don't is problematic.
@@cacogenicist Exactly.
Good afternoon, Joel, and greetings from Northeast Florida. I am a misplaced Buckeye fan and Columbus native, living in SEC country for 35 years now. But my comment relates to breakfast. If you should, by some weird happenstance, find yourself in Mobile Alabama covering a USA (University of South Alabama) game, there is a Hampton Inn in downtown Mobile that serves fresh - I mean FRESH - beignets for breakfast. These things come out still warm, with just the slightest perfect amount of lemon, and actually do melt in your mouth. I am not kidding! So, just for future reference. Love your show, and your guest appearances on The Herd. I find your mostly impartial POV refreshing and I always learn something new about the game. I never played, but I was the lead drummer in my high school band, so at least I got to go out on the field.
I'm glad there was a chance to get the targeting call reviewed and vacated. This is the third time this season an Ohio State player was ejected for targeting, and in approximately zero of those were they genuinely headhunting.
well in fairness, targeting isn't specifically about head hunting
Loved your story about the trainer! I watch every week! Let's get some wins on the picks!!!
Thanks for sharing that powerful story about Eric McCarty. It is encouraging to hear about people in the sport who understand the power of prayer.
As a Michigan fan, we are going 6-6 😢
Y’all have had one of the hardest schedules so don’t feel bad. There’s definitely a few games y’all should have won but it’s all good. I love watching Michigan football and I’m not even a fan but win the running game is working it’s a ton of fun to watch. Just need some passing game and y’all would be hard to beat.
Sometimes this dudes views can be wild but i gotta say this is the most realistic view I’ve seen so far. I absolutely agree and I think everything he said is going to happen
Great breakdown of the remaining teams/games still in it. Thanks for your work.
As a a UNLV fan this expansion has definitely elevated my watching experience. I feel as if we have a legitimate shot even with 2 losses and every down matters.
Joel the praying moment hit me so hard!! Praise God I know it's hard for students, athletes, and even coaches but God is the one !! Thank you for that moment!
I think K-State and BYU could both go if K-State were to beat an undefeated BYU is the Big 12 championship game
What?
Its questionable to even have the winner in with that soft as a tissue paper conference 😂😂
That doesn’t leave enough to let 3 big 10 or sec teams with 2-3 losses in & you know they are gonna do what they can to make that happen but Kstate & byu should both definitely get in if they both wins out the rest of regular season & byu loses to k state in the conference championship.
@@Bman6464 tissue paper haha. BYU beat SMU and K-State. Iowa State beat Iowa, which most of the teams in the B1G were also bragging about 5 minutes ago. Other than Oregon, Ohio State, Penn State, Texas and Tennessee there really isn’t much difference between the big 12 and the other three power conferences. I’d argue that the big 12 is better than the ACC today right now. My point is, if you takeoff the top teams in the Big Ten and SEC, the conferences are almost identical, which is hilarious, because of how much more the middle tier SEC and Big Ten teams make. It’s actually kind of pathetic.
OK ST > Arkansas > Tenn > Alabama > Georgia. That’s a real thing. The WORST big 12 team has a transitive win over Georgia. The big dogs in the SEC are not immortal this year, and the rest of you ride their coattails while playing high school teams in November.
@@Bman6464Just say you've never even watched a big 12 game and don't know anything about the top teams in that conference.🙄🙄🙄
I can't WAIT for some of these teams to prove you and everyone like you wrong!
Very good job Joel , amazing podcast
There is literally no way Michigan gets into the playoffs stop it Joel
@@King77Lee it’s the B1G homerism
@@GoatedAtNFSKlatt played at Colorado? What do you mean?
@@micahschultz5795 he also works for Fox. Colorado doesn’t mean anything when it comes to B1G homerism
One of their losses was to a team that was at a point perceived by almost everyone to be the best team in the country. They have to play the current #1 team next week, #13 (and climbing) Indiana, and #4 Ohio State. If they win out, a 9-3 Michigan team showing clear leaps in improvement from the beginning of their season is in without question. Now the odds of them actually winning out and showing that leap in improvement is simply not foreseeable.
I agree with Klatt in terms of a realistic path to the playoff. With who michigan has left to play, if they win out, they can still find themselves in the B1G title game. If they win that, they are in. Where the realistic part is thrown out the window is thinking that Michigan can actually beat 4 top-10 teams (would have to face one again in the title game) to finish the year. It'd be a miraculous thing to just win one of those games.
Also Michigan fan btw
This should be an annual segment the week prior to the first cfp rankings
Regarding targeting: if targeting is confirmed, make it a 30-yard penalty and let the offending players stay in the game at that point. If the player commits another targeting penalty in that same game or in two consecutive games, then the player can be ejected.
Just keep it 15 yards
@@Sea_Stallion Take a cue from the nba regarding flagrant fouls. 1 ejection 2 no ejection.
@@carlreed6186that’s actually very smart somebody get this man in office😂
@@carlreed6186 THANK YOU BRO. ive been saying for so long they should treat targeting like flagrants😭😭
Yet another stellar show amigo!
Alabama playing a High school team this late in the season should automatically disqualify them for any real consideration, especially while other teams play power school
Aside from Oregons win over osu who has a better win then bama dose over Georgia ? Were gonna see 3 or 4 teams from the big ten and sec thats how this is gonna go. bama is very much still in this
@@KadenRoberts-vd2bnGeorgia scheduled Clemson in the non-conference while Ohio State scheduled 3 cupcakes. Sorry, but that more than outweighs whatever “advantage” you think playing UMass in November gives Georgia.
Power 4 should play only power 4. Group of 5 should break off and be their own division and have their own playoff.
A&M playing New Mexico State at home
How about Ohio State having 4 bye weeks to open the year
The should make PASS INTERFERENCE reviewable
They just need a TMO like rugby uses to assist the refs. If you've never watched rugby the ref can ask the TMO to review anything and give advice.
I would have them non reviewable but allow teams to challenge the call at the risk of a timeout.
Joel acting like Pitt didn’t just win the ACC 3 years ago while beating Clemson on the way. Yes, we’ve won close games, but so has…Miami
3 years ago is like an eternity in college football because of the transfer portal. How many guys from that 2021 roster are still there?
@@mansionman777 I understand there's a lot of turnover in college football, I just meant that Narduzzi and Pitt have proven they're a program that can go toe to toe with the top teams in the conference and win. Is it likely they'll win the ACC? No, but to write them off completely after a 7-0 start with wins against 2 Big12 teams feels disrespectful, especially since Miami and Clemson haven't beaten anyone.
Also, your point about the portal actually only helps a team like Pitt btw, as they now have significantly more former 4 stars than that 2021 team.
@@Brandcherry17 don't worry Miami will get exposed
Right
A well thought out road to the Top 12.
Canadian here: I love college football and have for many decades. I do agree that the playoff is good for the fan bases, but I don't believe it's good for players.
If they're gonna have a 12 team playoff, cut the championship games: they're redundant. With this long season, the payments to players, and the transfer portal, college football has become a professional sports league, and these are college students 🤷.
If there's one thing that's ever certain its that Joel is going to get that plug of Hampton by Hilton in no matter what 😂 honestly my favorite part of each show is seeing how he's going to integrate it into the show 😂
Great analysis on the 12 team playoff. 😊😊😊
Somebody thought FSU was the 10th best team in the country...
They went undefeated last year so I understand why they was 10 at the beginning
@@theshowstopper979 we can say the same about Mizzou then, they won 10 games and beat OSU in a Bowl game so they were ranked #11 preseason
@@theshowstopper979 NOT the same team.
Factsssss
Nice to see we’ve narrowed it down to only twenty seven teams. 😐
Would be great to have more teams in the playoff to let them solve it on the field.
@ isn’t that what the regular season is for?
I see two paths for 2 Big12 teams into the playoffs. The first is the one you outlined. The other is if BYU wins out, Kansas St wins out, and Kansas St beats BYU in the conference title game. Both would be 12-1 with both would have only 1 loss to each other.
GO Irish !!!! And great show I wasn't sure about how we would handle.navy either but I'm glad we did.
Joel, thanks for the mea culpa regarding ND/Navy.
Joel klatt is my morning coffee 🌞
Colorado being talked about is wild.
CU making playoffs means Bi12 is a major joke. All teams look average, maybe BYU a little above but no one is elite
If Colorado runs the table it will be great for the game and yet they may not make the playoffs 🥲
How ?
@@livingthervlocalifecarlosa3111if they win the big 12 they in regardless of losses
It would take some chaos to get them in the big 12 title game. BYU has a very soft closing schedule (although they could very easily lose at ASU). If Kansas State beats Iowa State, Colorado is stuck behind both of them as well
wouldn't be a joel klatt episode without glazing michigan and hating on mizzou
😢
Mizzou hate is valid im afraid, ranked for no reason other than they have an sec patch on their jersey
Mizzou is trash. We have been saying all season that they will be exposed.
Dillon Gabriel is about to do his best Dennis Dixon impersonation at the Big House...
Isn't Gabriel gonna renegotiate his college contract next year 🤣 thought he planned on going for another decade
What a slappy for Michigan
got that notification bell alert always.
New Rule for targeting should be: Targeting 1 (very agregious; obvious strike to the head/neck with helmet and led with helmet) 15 yards and ejection. Targeting 2: Little to some contact to head with shoulder or arms, did not lead with crown of helmet, does not meet requirement for targeting 1, 15 yard penalty. No ejection. Warning that a second Targeting 2 by the same player will result in an ejection.
Joel Klatt and Josh Pate should be on the playoff committee!
if you think about it they make a bigger impact here in the media, as the media does end up shaping not only the AP but also the CFP ranking.
It's gonna be 4 (SEC Teams) 3 (Big Ten Teams) 2 (ACC Teams) 1 (Big XII Team) 1 (Notre Dame) 1 (Group of 5 Undefeated Team or second Big XII Team)
Which would be a absolute joke
@@damianpresha9833 Agreed. But you already know what's going to happen. Even though we are going to 12 Teams. There will still be teams that get a raw deal 🙄
Georgia, Texas, Tennessee, A&M. OSU, PENN ST. Oregon. Miami, Clemson. BYU. ND. Boise St.
I hate it but you’re right. SEC fetish has hit record levels.
@@27drink exactly
I don’t think I’ve ever said this but I’m saying it now especially with the transfer portal. The SEC is OVERRATED
Yes it is, those sec teams are not that good. Only teams to me in the sec is good is Texas, Georgia that’s it! Even Texas a&m is suspect and Tennessee is not all that because of there quarterback and that matters if Tennessee loses another game and colorado wins 10 games the committee is not going to take Tennessee over COlorado why because at the end of the day they still want to see certain teams in the playoffs who have stars on there teams and nobody can tell me otherwise they still want to make money. Boise if they win out will be in the playoffs because of jeanty! Colorado wins out colorado will be in the playoffs watch!!!
I agree
I so want to see Indiana (America's Team) shock the world by going to Columbus on November 23rd and beating Ohio State convincingly and then playing against Oregon in the CIG 10 Championship Game. Indiana (America's Team) is by far the most well coached team in the country and they are being seriously overlooked, underrated and disrespected by the oddsmakers. They are what is right about the game right now!
Well said go hoosiers
I think it’s funny that you guys and the committee make excuses for why teams with loses should go over teams with zero loses.
The courts won't find it funny when the antitrust suits hit.
Rightttt
As bad as Miami has been in those 3 close games their sos, fpi, and sor are all still higher than Indys. But Indy definitely should be a top 8 team
They never call spearing on offense. Much of these targeting calls are because the offensive player is leading with the crown of the helmet.
Michigan, Your BIG 10 homer role is showing, You cannot believe that Michigan is one of the best 12 teams this year
The Michigan copium is CRAZY. Obviously if they beat the #1, #3 team theyll be in but to call it "realistic" is absurd
You don't understand. It's not realistic for Michigan to do it. 'Realistic' means it is possible and doesn't require other teams losing to make it possible. The only way a 9-3 team can make it in is if they are in the position Michigan is in. It's not that anyone really believes Michigan will do it, its that this scenario is the only realistic scenario for a 9-3 team. Why don't people understand this.
What has texas shown. Really wasnt that close with georgia and struggled with vandy. If they lose to A&M can you point to a good win?
Haha, no you can’t. Well, I still think Arkansas is a good win if they get it. However, they won’t be ranked.
@@Mattw1014Aight so I think if we lose to A&M we definitely drop but unranked lmao? That’s just objectively not accurate lol. You’re telling me a 10-2 team would go from the 6-10 range to unranked because of losses to the current #2 team in the country and the current #1 team in SEC play? Not our fault two of our biggest opponents fell apart this year.
Also, that was definitely not the same Georgia team as most of this season. That team hadn’t been seen since the Clemson game.
@@Terminator879x11 oh no, I was saying Arkansas would be a good win, but it won’t be a “ranked win”.
Even if Michigan went out and beat OSU and Oregon the Texas win over Michigan still wouldn't be a good win lol. Two different Michigan teams in that scenario
I think that 2nd interpretation of Targeting is fine. It protects players AND specifically says defenseless and “head or neck area”. He hit the Nebraska player in the chest and shoulder. The problem is bad refereeing, as is the case with most problems in the game.
Hey now Joel, Mercer is a tough team to play… in March Madness!!
Duke out here catching strays
Brought to you by Hampton waffles! LOL come on Joel K
He absolutely right! We win out we in...
100% agree on the targeting. If the player is initiating the tackle, and the WR or RB goes low, thats on them. If they guy is going to tackle the WR at the waist, but he trips or falls bent over or something, whats the player to do, defy physics? Let him catch the ball? c'mon man, this rule longs needs an overhaul.
Joel!! Love the show. Love your thoughts and views on everything related to CFB. Who is in your Top 25??
One venue for any team to make the playoffs is an advantage in scheduling. Start with a easy team and finish with a easy team. In the middle play your conference opponents and a top ten team and, of course, cannot loose more than one game.
Do conferences protect teams that have a shot over teams that have no shot? Officiating seems to be really bad this year.
Idk if it has anything to do with corruption, but I do think there is a cognitive bias. Officiating across the board has been abysmal this year though, so it could just be a bad year for officials.
What do you do if: Kansas State beats Iowa State and gives them their only loss. They are then 11-1. Kansas State goes to the Big 12 championship game against a 12-0 BYU and then somehow they beat BYU. Now you have (2) 12-1 Big 12 teams and (1) 11-1 Big 12 team. You think they would take a 3 loss Michigan over a one loss Iowa State? An Iowa State team who beat Iowa on the road, who then beat Washington...who was responsible for one of those 3 Michigan losses? You would have a 12-1 conference champion, a 12-1 runner up (who beat the conference champion during the season) and then an 11-1 Iowa State team.
Really threw the word “realistic” out the window once we got to Michigan Joel
He only threw that in to justify leaving out WSU, the one (and only one) team with a Top 25 SOR and Top 25 probability of making the playoff he omitted. Can't have a non affiliated institution getting recognition, especially after they waxed his Buffs last year.
I think if Army gets in they have a legit shot at upsetting some top 5 teams. That offense is something that no one is prepared to go against.
ND is probably the most prepared in the country
Im sure they’ll score 14 aganist ND.
army hasn’t beat 1 good team
@@thuvlegend9097 That's fine as long as ND scores 50 on them.
With multiple weeks to prepare teams will be ready
Illinois doesn’t have a realistic path because their best win would be Michigan, but also Michigan is maybe good enough to be a playoff team. Solid logic.
If Michigan beats #1, #4, and #13 in November and Illinois beats...just Michigan...in October...you really can't hear it can you. Jesus.
I think way less 10-2 teams will make it then we originally thought cuz teams just aren’t losing this year like we normally see. Still a lot of unbeaten teams.
If kansas state wins out and then beats an undefeated byu in the big 12 championship, would they both get in? Or does that 1 loss keep byu out?
I knew he was going say Michigan. Their resume would be insane if they did that. Funny thing is: it’s possible. If week 1 Oregon shows up, anything is possible.
Week one Oregon is not showing up.
Since Oregon figured out their Oline they’ve been a different team
@ agreed!
Let's go with a 32 team playoff, then how many would still be in contention? If the most teams is "the" measurement, let's have a "big dance" of 32 teams and a NIT tournament for teams 33-64. Maybe 100+ teams are still in contention. WOW! That is awesome. Shorten regular season by two games and play more playoff games. Let's do that. (Sarcasm)
Love your show. It’s the best insight into college football anywhere. Thanks again. 👍
I agree with the targeting sentiment. 1 only watch 3/4 games a weekend but it seems like 2-3 ejections a week and there are a 100 other games... Is it having a big impact?
huge mich fan here and I rolled my eyes when he said mich has a chance 😅
Brother its not that Michigan has a realistic chance to make it, its that their scenario allows for a realistic chance for a 9-3 team to make it. There is a real difference there. But yes, the fact that it exists and is talked about still exhausts me too
I heard you out, and I'm rolling my eyes anyway. Michigan straight up isn't a playoff team.
Facts klatt bugging
Indiana should be ranked higher than Miami 🤣🤣🤣
Every 2-loss P4 team is still alive. They may not entirely control their destiny, but it makes no sense to eliminate teams who still have a shot at their conference championship.
If they don't control their destiny, its not the same level of realism.
If both the ball carrier and defender lower their head, either you eject both guys with an offsetting penalty, replaying the down. Or you eject neither, keep the flag in your pocket.
Joel made a 45 minute video to argue that the SEC & big 10 should just be the only teams allowed to lose 1 game or even be in the playoff
Partner the defending back-to-back national champions went 11 and 1 last year and didn't get in Michigan has no shot
If Texas is 10-2 with losses to Georgia and Texas A&M. They would have no marquee wins. If Michigan goes 7-5 or 6-6. That would still be their best win.
They will still get in just on expectations of them being good, but I’m with you they SHOULD be one of the first on the chopping block if they lose to TAMU but they probably won’t be.
@ufailowell maddening. Also Florida would get in at 9-3. Wins in November over Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, LSU, FSU.
Edit. Ole Miss not Tennessee
Texas rooting hard for Michigan to beat Oregon or OSU
The Big 12 can get 2 still if K-State beats an undefeated BYU in the Big 12 championship game. But the media wouldn't like 12-1 BYU, so.....
16 teams is best playoff scenario. All 10 conference champs in and 6 At large bids.
Ind opponents combined record is 26 wins and 37 loses. Only Nebraska has a winning record. So they may get in with one loss, but 2 I doubt it. JMO
I couldn’t agree more with klatt about the targeting penalties, I’ve been saying this since they put the rule in place, there should be 2 versions of this penalty, first is a personal foul: targeting 15 yards and a first down
The 2nd should be a flagrant or malicious targeting, where the refs feel like a player maybe deliberately or intentionally lead with his helmet and hit the other player in the head or whatever, and this one should have the same penalties but also include an ejection, it’s just like the roughing or running into the kicker penalty 1 is deemed to be really unsafe for the kicker and could lead to injury so it’s a much bigger penalty, they other is a, accidents happen type penalty, here’s 5 yards.
It should have been so simple
Also if u adjust the targeting penalty this one, u still have to optics if we are cracking down on flagrant fouls and incentivizing keeping players safer.
I can't believe how every single analyst believes going to the conference championship game at a neutral site against a REALLY good team (B10 and SEC) is easier than skipping that game and winning the 5 vs 12 or 6 vs 11 game at home in the playoffs instead.
Mailbag answer: Utah and Tempe. BEST.
Gotta be honest, I know Fox loves their big noon games but Lions Buckeyes not being the night game and a white out is a huge scheduling miss. Instead you got what, A&M at South Carolina? That'll be a good game too but it's not the same
Not having WSU on here at 6-1 hurts me Joel
Absolutely right about Indiana Miami comparison IU would probably beat Miami I think they can beat Ohio st Hoosiers are a great team this yr
I don't have a problem with the targeting penalty as it exists, and I think ejection is appropriate -- I don't think the call would have enough of a bite otherwise.
What’s really crazy is if Indiana and Penn St both go undefeated AND both beat Ohio State by 2 or more, they play for the Big 10 championship and Oregon would be undefeated and STILL get left out of the BIG10 champ game.
Why do you think an undefeated Oregon team would be left out? They’d also have a win over OSU?
@ Penn St/Oregon/Indiana all don’t play each other so the could all finish undefeated with wins over OSU. Someone posted the tie breakers and the first one that would apply to this situation is margin of victory of a common opponent. Oregon only beat OSU by 1. So if the other two win that game by more than 1 point, they’d get in on the weird tie breaker.
@@cocorobinson3557pennstate isn’t going undefeated lay off the kool aid
@@cocorobinson3557 @cocorobinson3557 I Can't find that, looks like tiebreaker 4 is the first to apply, cumulative wins of each teams conference opponents, right now Indiana is at a slight disadvantage , they need NW and NEB to finish strong, and hope WIS loses some , Takes 3 undefeated for this to matter.
Good point for Michigan
Looking at the rest of Penn State’s schedule I find it highly unlikely that they lose 2 regular season games
Pitt @ 7-0 is on pace to have three 9+ win seaons out the last 4 with an ACC championship, hiesman finalist, & a biletnikoff awed winner sprinkled into the mix. Pitt isnt an upstart, & were as real a contender as anyone else in the ACC Clemson, Miami, & SMU havent beaten anyone better than Pitt has. Pitt could also get blownout to Georgia if thats what it takes to be an "ACC Contender", i mean we already beat Cal close.
No reason you can't get into the Championship game and win it.
It would be a miracle if Michigan wins those 4 games.
“Gimme whatever you got” I got God 🛐🙏🏾
Using the same logic you used for Michigan, wouldn’t you have to include Florida too? They’d be 9-3 with wins over Georgia, Texas, LSU, and Ole Miss. Not saying it’s possible, but you should at least be consistent in your reasoning.
100% you're right. I think he either forgot Florida or had enough SEC teams to talk about already. Plus, Michigan's losses aren't THAT bad. Worst is Washington and obviously the Illinois and Texas losses aren't that bad.
@@marceryt Right, and Florida's losses are actually "better" than Michigan's: Miami, Texas A&M, and Tennessee. All top-tier playoff contenders.
How can Joel include Michigan but not Florida? If Florida by some miracle wins out, beating Georgia, Texas, LSU, and Ole Miss along the way, they’d probably get in. Florida’s got no chance of winning all of those games, but Michigan has 0 chance of beating each of Oregon, Indiana, and Ohio State as well. In fact most power ratings have Florida above Michigan.
We can be done with Michigan. They had a great 3 year run that culminated in a title. Everybody’s gone, they’re not even a shell of what they were in 2021, let alone 2023. They have a 0% chance of winning out, just like Florida. Either put both on here, or put neither.
Again, it's not about how realistic it is for Florida or Michigan to win out. It's about the realistic scenario for a 9-3 team to make it in. That said, I agree that Florida should have been spoken in the same form as Michigan here. My honest opinion is that there were enough SEC teams on the list today that Joel didn't bother talking about Florida. But you're right that it's the same scenario.
Joel, you are the best of the best. There is no question about it. Your intro is annoying AF.