@@matthewware8973 facebook has numerous accounts of them blatantly selling user info and your more worried about tiktok which they havent found any proof of them selling user data
Wait wait wait. So Americans can order from Wish, Temu, and SHEIN with high levels of lead as welll as child labor accusations, and they all can agree on a ban? These people.
That is a problem, too. As Justice Kavanaugh points out: the fact that multiple problems exist shouldn't stop us from being able to solve one of them now. If you and ten other cars near you are speeding down the interstate, and you get pulled over, you cannot say "well other people were doing the same bad thing I did! Let me go!" as a defense.
The constitution gives complete authority to the federal government to control interaction/trade with other countries. What this is entangled with is its extreme proximity to citizens rights to free association and expression.
I was about to message this exact same question. Obviously banning tiktok is influenced by Musk so that x will not compete with tiktok. It has nothing to do with safety or security.
As a non-American watching this all unfold, I have to admit that TikTok won’t be the same without Americans on it. If the ban goes through, other countries might follow suit.
US is pretty much the last major country to be banning tiktok. US is behind as usual... Here's a list of countries that have banned tiktok already ... Senegal Somalia Kenya Afghanistan Armenia Azerbaijan Bangladesh China (mainland and Hong Kong) India Indonesia Iran Jordan Kyrgyzstan Nepal Pakistan Philippines Taiwan Vietnam Uzbekistan Albania Austria Belgium Czechia Denmark Estonia France Ireland Latvia Malta The Netherlands Norway Romania Russia United Kingdom Canada Australia New Caledonia New Zealand Fun fact .. Even China banned Tiktok. Cheers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_TikTok
@@mintoo2coolyour list is completely incorrect and wrong. For example, TikTok is not banned in China. It is self banned because they have DouYin in China. They are not banned by Chinese law.
Children are getting obliterated by army grade weapons in their schools. But this!!!! THIS OF ALL THINGS Gets immediate action! America is so damn cooked. The priorities are absolutely insane.
@ so do nothing? The fact you can say that so casually is terrifying enough. This isn’t NORMAL!!! There’s no other act of evil in this world I can think to top than this. It truly shows how consciously dead we are as a society. It’s truly terrifying.
@@Stroproducedit like I said banning guns isnt gonna do anything, we should probably get rid of ARs and require training and people to be 21+ to get weapons, but at the end of the day Most of those perpetrators just stole the guns from their legally owning parents
it already passed and that makes no sense... surprising how many upvotes (without comment) opposition posts have... lol, something fishy/sushi going on
The Supreme Court asked good questions on both sides and I believe they understand this goes against free speech of Americans and that congress needs to rewrite the bill
personally... being a skilled and cognizant Internet user since before its beginning... one way TikTok does damage was not mentioned, directly affecting a portion of our population, similar to what RUclips was doing before it cleaned up its act after Attorney General Barr entered office.
It's simple, if you know how these algorithms are trained. In order to train the recommendation models, you need ALL data about ALL users and ALL interactions, in near real-time. ByteDance owns the model and trains the model for TikTok US. It means they must be ingesting all US data to China. Banning this practice is not content based discrimination. It's indiscriminate to content, it's saying TT US cannot share this data of US users back to China.
I tried to post two highlights from the oral argument (without any comment from me) but Google's viewpoint discrimination won't let me quote what the judges said...
Yes and your age, your location, your friends, where you go to and for how long, your messages, any photos you post, the data on your phone, numbers, photos, texts, phone calls, etc. You agree to it when you download the app and then again when you post something, you agree for them to access your mic, camera roll, and phone data.
This bears resemblance to the limitation on convicts in prison to speak freely. A foreign government identified as an enemy or convict is restricted from interaction with society and even free society with the convict.
Thank you Elizabeth Prelogar!!! Profiling and background covert data manipulation for weaponization is the danger focus. Thank You Ma’am for leading this conversation and the panel is a little confused. 👍💖🐰🦄💯👍
If that’s the case’ and you’re concerned about ppl in their teens/20’s going rogue ‘ why don’t you re-enforce the patriotism we used to have in this country.
With all the breeches that's been going on in these tech companies and Facebook selling people's information I'm not understanding monopolizing a conversation
Can someone explain how China can actually force bytedance and TikTok when they are registered in the cayman islands which is owned by brittan? Only the owners are Chinese citizens.
It’s smoke and mirrors. If data harvesting was the issue then Congress would have passed a law preventing everyone from doing it but instead of doing that they want to ban the Chinese company for things that are not taking place. No evidence has been provided showing the Chinese government has access to TikTok or that these things are happening. Not one example has been provided. This is a power play by American oligarchs to seize more power.
Have you never heard of Chinese billionaires disappearing into government reeducation programs? They have absolute control of everything and everyone in China.
It's similar to how the United States was spying on Russia using the SR-71 Blackbird, made from titanium mined from Russia, purchased by the CIA, through shell companies in Africa.
To have 1 single lawyer deal and answer all these questions is idiotic. These questions bring up ideas that need years of research to answer, and to leave that to one person is just lazy and biased.
Not uncommon. These aren’t your everyday lawyers. These are people who have been in front of the supreme court countless times and have incredibly talented staff who prepare them. Noel sounds comfortable and knowledgeable in front of the justices. His argument is just not on solid foundation. During oral arguments, the court will scrutinize both sides of any case. If they’re well enough, you won’t have any idea how the ruling will go.
Nope not really ,if you watched the livestream you would've known they said they'll give their final decision on Monday,if it was really "done" this hearing wouldnt've occured in the first place.
It's fucking disgusting how nobody brings up the fact that Congress is most likely just out and out lying about the alleged national security garbage. That's irrelevant as a matter of law. Congress is ALLOWED to just out and out lie about their findings, and use this nonexistent national security thing as a blatant pretext. Even if the plaintiffs were able to prove that it was a blatant pretext, it still wouldn't render the law unconstitutional. And that's fucked up.
It may be unconstitutional under strict scrutiny, I think, actually. The standard of review does affect how much they scrutinize the evidence of rationale.
I’m not saying Congress is perfect, but intelligence agencies (Ex. Dept.) have been warning about the security risk for a long time. And now things are ramping up with China so it’s more pressing
@@ikerd9661 All throughout this case, the government has adamantly refused to produce any evidence during discovery showing a legitimate security interest. I can understand wanting to keep it classified, but there's no reason why they couldn't, at a minimum, have the evidence under seal and have the plaintiffs' attorneys be sworn to secrecy. Instead, it's 100% "because we say so" as far as national security threats are concerned.
That's 100% true. Twitter & Meta are 100 times worse. Both Musk & Murdock weren't born here & want to actually choose algorithms from foreign sources - hostile sources. Tiktok isn't doing that.
1:39:28 Beautiful question by Thomas, and Kagan's subsequent attempts at trying to help her former clerk were admirable but Prelogar didn't substantiate the "covert" element very well
love that government officials' just speak over him when he has a point. geriatric children running this country, worried about hypotheticals with no concrete proof of such acts.
@@TheRcguy24 I have a job, actually a career, and it's on TT! Instead of paying the overhead for a storefront and paying employees to staff it, I sell my home grown, handmade holistic medicinals & teas there. It's actually a very smart business decision, and I work hard to make it profitable. Between photographing & making videos for products, presenting them, and packing and shipping, I work harder than many people who work for someone else, but I also make more than enough money to independently support my daughter and I and have money in savings. Can everyone who goes to a 'job' say that?
You know what they say about the one who smelt it dealt it!!! … all the permissions you CAN give but DO NOT have to(contacts, camera, microphone, etc..) are the same for GOOGLE, FACEBOOK… and on and on. They’re scared of future blackmailing? Does our government currently do such things and that’s why it’s the first we’ve heard of user data being used for this purpose?? While I really like this solicitor general… she better have been able to see this privy history file on the fears of TikTok. THEN also be able to say with a straight face that American companies want to be the only ones who do it to us lolol I mean do do it either.
I trust an American company that wants to find the best way to get me to buy their products, more than I do an authoritative human rights government that wants the fall of my own country and democracy. But hey I guess you like comparing apples and oranges, both fruit am I right?
So, I guess I’m confused on the uses of the words “speaker” and “speech” because the “speakers” are TikTok content creators who are free to speak what they want even if social media apps were never invented. However they’re arguing around the algorithm being TikToks ability to speak with no internally generated content? If someone passes me a note and tells me to give it to someone else, can I claim that as my speech? Someone set me straight.
Tik Ceo: We're not owned by the Chinese government. Chinese Ministry of foreign Affairs: any divestment of tik tok would first have to be approved by the Chinese government. Tik tok ceo: 😕😕😕
Obviously banning tiktok is influenced by Musk so that x will not compete with tiktok. It has nothing to do with safety or security. Or else the us government would ban Tiktok Teemu and SHEIN in one motion.
Totally wrong. It has nothing to do with the ownership. This kind of business activities has to get permission from all related governments, including US government.
@@bmoue1006 no you're totally wrong! It's owned by the trash CCP! And our national security is more important than you thinking your propaganda platform has any rights, don't like it go cry to xi.
It’s a legitimate concern. To ignore or deny the possibility of data collection by a US adversary in an application they created is simply ignorant. I know… “govt bad me mad” crowd won’t like to hear this, but it’s the truth. Sounds like there are some great minds considering all angles here.
Then we should stop receiving products from China, make a better "firewall" so our ssn can stay put of their hands, etc. We get basically EVERYTHING from China, so are we going to address that as well?
The owner of twitter just threw the election to the least qualified person to ever hold office. We don’t need china to fuck us over. We’re doing it to ourselves. Or are we gonna ban twitter next?
I think TikTok's team had a good point though. Simply ban the sale or sharing of sensitive information, per the risks. Forcing divestiture is hardly a proportionate response in my opinion.
@@SECTOR-si2cbI think forcing divestiture shows their true intent of wanting full absolute control over the most popular social media platform in the country
Nope. You can not rule or argue on something you do not comprehend. None of these people express an authentic understanding of code or how it is created and how easily it can be changed.
@jonathanlee6052 I listened to the entire oral session. They are qualified as lawyers. Not as interpreters. They can not decipher what the actual issue is and focus instead on an exact thing. In this case, the 1st amendment. They conflate the right to post materials under freedom of speech with the meta data that is associated with a post to the platform. The meta data is the concern as it regards content .. not the actual content. They never figured that out even though it was expertly described by both sides of the argument. The justices never grasped this at all. How can they be effective without knowing what they are talking about?
@@AtomkeySinclairTikTok does NOT allow Free Speech, anywhere on their platform. And if you have an issue with the way they do things there and or want to post something that will benefit the general public, TikTok has a rude habit of taking down multiple videos and photos that THEY don't agree with. TikTok will then offer to give you an appeal as to why they removed your post but, that's a joke too. Nobody on TikTok is allowed to voice their opinion and TikTok also bans members all the time because of Chinese censorship laws.
@@btpips If it doesn't have to do with the code, and that makes the algorithm perform work by the way, then what does it have to do with? You cannot collect data without the code. You cannot share the data without code. If the code was open sourced, then the issue would have never existed because transparency would show what is going on behind the scenes. The Solicitor General attempt to clarify that over and over but no one seemed to grasp it. In reality, no one gives a dang what anyone posts - post away. That is absolutely not the issue. The meta data of the post is the issue, and it's removal has nothing to do with the content of the post because you never see it = the user never sees it, and the audience never sees it. It is the abstraction of the user's metrics that are bound to the account of that particular user that is of interest. That data is priceless to anyone that knows how to shuffle it. Not only that, but it is recyclable as a commodity.
@@gtjohns220true most of the dinosaurs are gone (hopefully Thomas is next), but unlike the congress/senators who made themselves look very ignorant in their TikTok hearing, the judges are asking very narrow legal questions, I don’t believe they’re any more qualified to make decisions on anything outside their expertise
@@vondas1480 thomas is gone and will be replaced by a 35 year old Federalist judge like Cannon. All of the judges accept Cannon are very well versed and are experts on this lane of law. Even the conservatives know the law they just chose to get paid to use that knowledge to find a reason to support the bribers position. ByteDance should've spent money buying Thomas and Alito RVs and vacations.
He keeps dancing around their questions so they are cutting off the BS. They hear cases and slick lawyers everyday and can see his diversions from a mile away.
Listening to this and I’m really thinking by just the way the voices sound they are siding with tik tok and the American people the US congress has no solid proof or any other argument on why it should be banned besides it’s Chinese
1. there is no shut down by US government, there is a request by law to dinvest. Bytedance chose to shut down because it can not fight chinese government. 2. government has no issue with tiktok and its creator and content, it has issue with the influence of its ultimate owner who is controlled by a foreign adversary.
TikTok’s US-based content is stored on servers in Loudoun County, Virginia (suburb of Washington, D.C.) and Oregon on servers owned by Oracle (a literal U.S. Defense Contractor) with data worked on by Los Angeles, California-based staff right here in the USA; EU- and UK-based content is stored in Ireland, and the rest are stored in Singapore. TikTok’s Chinese-headquartered but United Kingdom (Cayman Islands)-incorporated parent company ByteDance practically (further owned by international investors incl. Americans, Chinese, etc.) only keeps the rights/copyright to the source code and collects the money made by its subsidiary known as TikTok which is headquartered in Singapore. TikTok (International Version) and Douyin (Chinese Version) use a lot of the same technology (practically the same product) but its use, access, data storage, and administration is bifurcated between the Republic of Singapore for TikTok and the People’s Republic of China for Douyin. The only reason as to why the U.S. is trying to ban TikTok from non-governmental personal uses, is because Facebook, Twitter (X), and Google (Alphabet) lobbied Congress to in effect get rid of their competition for them; and others want TikTok banned because too many young people use it to communicate with each other to criticize governments, social movements, corporations, and certain social norms for their hypocrisy and unethical behavior. Plus, companies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google collect a lot of the same data as TikTok, but far worse implications to Americans because these American companies can use or sell our information to figure out our life patterns, advertise to us, and stalk us to do who knows what, while even if China gets our information it’s not that useful for them unless we plan on moving to China for some reason (I’m talking about the general public - not government institutions and some corporations that need to protect confidential information and proprietary trade secrets) . Even if China wanted the data, they can just simply buy it off of the endless American corporations that collect unnecessary amounts of data on us which is an already common practice in the United States - plus we have less privacy rights in relation to keeping our information safe from corporations than most other developed countries, especially those in the European Union - this is because many allege and subjectively interpret our constitution and privacy laws as only (ideally speaking really only) protecting us from government as opposed to both government and corporations. The current TikTok ban only exists for these reason, it’s not altruistic. The only reason TikTok suppresses or promotes certain topics whether they be conservative-leaning or liberal-leaning / pro-this or anti-that /mindless fluff pieces or educational content, etc. is based on the socio-cultural sensibilities, demands, and desires of the American market; it’s true that there’s going to be messed up content on TikTok, just as much as it’s on Facebook, Instagram, RUclips (Google-Alphabet), and Twitter (X), but an outright ban based on this is just a bad take.
Not true, America wants to control the algorithm, this was not an issue until people started making more political content on the platform, this app was musically about 7 years ago and never had an issue until people started really giving opinions on there. The younger generation doesn’t generation is tired of hearing that china is an enemy, it’s so tiringgggg.
So? The same Congress members that want more fuel efficient cars drive less fuel efficient cars. The same Congress members who want higher taxes currently pay lower taxes. I don't understand what you're getting at.
They literally don’t understand how the internet works, and their whole argument is based off hypotheticals when it is STRESSED REPEATEDLY that the federal government has NO EVIDENCE.
@ how do ? Because from the arguments, TikTok keeps dancing around the stance of freedom of speech. The Supreme Court argues that their real issue has to do with ByteDance and the exploitation of our data/potential. They don’t feel comfortable with a company that’s not really under US jurisdiction to have our information. TikTok imo kept dancing around that point and was playing semantics. They informed us we don’t have an issue with TikTok Algorithm, we don’t have an issue with Free Speech, we’re not against TT, we are against ByteDance in control of that ecosystem. They to me didn’t have any solutions to it outside of saying it would take a lot of resources to duplicate the operations and perks ByteDance is providing for TT. One can argue it just seems like obviously ByteDance doesn’t want to sell (why would they) at the same time though, the government isn’t against TikTok. They want ByteDance out the picture
@@ChillandSleep_ america’s national security Trump‘s everything else. When both republican and democratic members of Congress are telling you that we’ve got a national security problem then there must be some substance to their claim. The court should take that very seriously.
@@YazanAbdullahMDtrump was the one who started this conversation and he only switched up once he saw the numbers and engagement from the youth lol, should 100% be banned if not for security purposes than for our own sanity and attention spans lol
One key point about divestment. TikTok is a property/business owned by an individual, is there any difference between forcing it to shutdown and divestment? The debate makes me feel that divestment is legitimate and beneficial to TikTok’s owner, but is de facto force someone to sell his cash-cow business
NOEL FRANCISCO attorney for TikTok wants to adhere the free speech rights of "millions" of users to this case-- the case is not about free speech for "end USERS" since this is monitored by the private platform itself. Manhattan Community Access Corp. v. Halleck, 587 U.S. (2019); NetChoice, LLC v. Moody, 34 F.4th 1196 (11th Cir. 2022);
People saying it should be banned are wrong, THIS app is peoples main incomes, thousand-millions of small businesses and creators use this app to make money, and no they can switch apps because it ALGORITHM, TikTok is the only platform I and many others have a voice.
Hear me out, I don't think you or anyone should've ever made content creation on a CHINESE SITE/APP your main income source ,and even if your gonna do that make sure you diversify and go to other platforms just in case one collapses. And if your gonna argue that without TikTok people r gonna go broke because of an algorithm... NO if people who r mainly on TikTok try to move to another app they would do just fine, like if you move your shit to insta you'll be fine if you establish your audience, and if TikTok is gonna get banned people will prolly move there anyway. And for some clarification the reason it's getting banned is because when you are in that app CHINA is going to collect your data, and prolly sell it or use it for whatever they want, and China is one of our main worldly enemies. Ps: If I got anything wrong or if something needs clarification I gotchu
@@17kadiatouand yet y’all sign up to release your data on Temu, League of Legends, and so many Chinese based app. You allow Mark Zuckerburg to sell your data to Russia…nice try
@@CalebDailey-vg4jw the only evidence they have if the China taking our data are only speculation, plus, the algorithm on TikTok is miles better than on yt or instagram, for example, i have tried to make videos on all 3 websites and the easiest one to go viral on is TikTok, I got a 1m view video only have 5 videos posted, that’s why I’m saying small business need TikTok because it’s the easiest to go viral, and your wrong abt the national security risk because they aren’t going after other Chinese companies in America like SHEIN, they want to take away a platform where our voices are heard more than others, plus In the lower courts some of the justices said that TikTok is against democracy so it should get banned, which is violating the first amendment. Also in the first amendment you’re allowed to post media on foreign news outlets even though it’s an enemy country.
@@jgao Tik Tok users complaining they will lose their 'job' is hilarious. Its not like Tik Tok is special. If my livelihood was on Tik Tok and I heard a possible ban was coming a YEAR ago I would have made sure to start moving my base of operations and followers over to another platform. You can't just sit there and be like "huh, hope it will work itself out" when you had the ability to take action months ago and at least prepare for a downfall.
It's because of the algorithm. America has a right to control the algorithm. China on the other hand does not want to hand the algorithm over. It makes sense. If Bytedance could sell TikTok without the algo, it would do so in a second. But it's the algo that China is protecting and for good reason.
@YazanAbdullahMD The attorney for TikTok repeatedly said the government wants TikTok to CENSOR content. The algorithm the government wants is to censor, nothing more.
I am against authoritarianism in the U.S. but this law does not apply to any U.S. company China could sell the company and start anew, but it cannot continue as-is
How about let’s keep TikTok for entertainment but content creators give TikTok alias stage names and nobody use their real name? Problem solved for 80 percent of content.
I think the percentage of the those whom it wouldn't work for is too low. There are a huge number of people who make a living on TT and need to register our real names.
This case has NOTHING to do with CONTENT. We have no problem with an American extoling the virtues of China and shitting on America. That's not the issue. The issue is: The algorithm that determines A-what American minds are exposed to and B-what info China can collect about more than half of the American population is controlled and can be be interrogated by China at ANY TIME China deems necessary. IN FACT, there is no proof that China is already doing that. This whole case has nothing to do with free speech or first amendment. It has everything to do with national security of America visa v its number one economic and military global competitor and creditor, China! Any patriotic American should easily understand this.
TikTok’s US-based content is stored on servers in Loudoun County, Virginia (suburb of Washington, D.C.) and Oregon on servers owned by Oracle (a literal U.S. Defense Contractor) with data worked on by Los Angeles, California-based staff right here in the USA; EU- and UK-based content is stored in Ireland, and the rest are stored in Singapore. TikTok’s Chinese-headquartered but United Kingdom (Cayman Islands)-incorporated parent company ByteDance practically (further owned by international investors incl. Americans, Chinese, etc.) only keeps the rights/copyright to the source code and collects the money made by its subsidiary known as TikTok which is headquartered in Singapore. TikTok (International Version) and Douyin (Chinese Version) use a lot of the same technology (practically the same product) but its use, access, data storage, and administration is bifurcated between the Republic of Singapore for TikTok and the People’s Republic of China for Douyin. The only reason as to why the U.S. is trying to ban TikTok from non-governmental personal uses, is because Facebook, Twitter (X), and Google (Alphabet) lobbied Congress to in effect get rid of their competition for them; and others want TikTok banned because too many young people use it to communicate with each other to criticize governments, social movements, corporations, and certain social norms for their hypocrisy and unethical behavior. Plus, companies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google collect a lot of the same data as TikTok, but far worse implications to Americans because these American companies can use or sell our information to figure out our life patterns, advertise to us, and stalk us to do who knows what, while even if China gets our information it’s not that useful for them unless we plan on moving to China for some reason (I’m talking about the general public - not government institutions and some corporations that need to protect confidential information and proprietary trade secrets) . Even if China wanted the data, they can just simply buy it off of the endless American corporations that collect unnecessary amounts of data on us which is an already common practice in the United States - plus we have less privacy rights in relation to keeping our information safe from corporations than most other developed countries, especially those in the European Union - this is because many allege and subjectively interpret our constitution and privacy laws as only (ideally speaking really only) protecting us from government as opposed to both government and corporations. The current TikTok ban only exists for these reason, it’s not altruistic. The only reason TikTok suppresses or promotes certain topics whether they be conservative-leaning or liberal-leaning / pro-this or anti-that /mindless fluff pieces or educational content, etc. is based on the socio-cultural sensibilities, demands, and desires of the American market; it’s true that there’s going to be messed up content on TikTok, just as much as it’s on Facebook, Instagram, RUclips (Google-Alphabet), and Twitter (X), but an outright ban based on this is just a bad take.
It produces careers/buisness/connectivity. The young generations don’t like instagram/facebook anymore they are toxic apps and TikTok is the new fresh thing, if you think the government should be able to just step in and shut that down when half of Americans love it, you are giving the government wayyy to much power over our life. Out of all the problems in the world, this is the least of americas problems.
@@Jordan_Hamptonhalf of Americans? The idea that even a third of the country has a Tik tok is crazy, China always lies about their numbers, but it's not hard for any clown to create 5 accounts but doesn't mean 5 people are using the app. Also they can find anything else new that isn't owned by a horrible Chinese Communist Party.
The supreme courts job is the determine the constitutionality of laws and rules, not investigate random crap on the internet. That would be the job of the justice department.
they will give their final decision publicly on Monday.Majority are saying based on their attitude in the livestream it seems they'll uphold the ban but we don't know for sure until monday
Fast-tracking the “TikTok” case was a breeze, but we've been forced to watch Trump, a convicted felon, crawl through trial after trial in excruciating slow motion for over four years! Does America even have a real legal system, or is it all just a joke?
This is very upsetting. Considering how many people this app helps. There business and people who run there businesses through TikTok. We are supposed to be a free society. For the people by the people. Please do not ban tiktok
TikTok ruied and American youth. Bsically, if you're good looking and white, you could avoid inhumane working conditions and make money just by making vids of yourself that someone else is jackin off too because they think u're hot. Yet, average fold who look average have to actually have a resume and work 60-80 hr weeks and bring less money. Fuck social media.
This app also helped devalue labor and discourage young people from getting a real job. So now if you're hot, especially if you're caucasian and hot, you could avoid the torture of working hard for the money like the rest of us, and become some kinda "reviewer" or "influencer" teaching people bulllshit and replacing medical expertise with shaman BS and Hot guy protein advice vs educated Doctor advice. The heck with these apps who are deprofessionizing hard working folk and giving legitimacy to genes.
because not everyone on tiktok is pro israel and like the usa and since its Chinese company owns the app they think its a national security risk and it's bad even tho they have legitimately no proof that case
because they do, that is what started this whole thing. some republicans were caught in zoom call talking about how tik tok showing unfavorable to israel; and how that it was a "Threat" which it's not is that they can not control it like they do with FB & IG.
@@John-tr5hn What's worse, tiktok with its wide variety of viewpoints and sources; or television, which is controlled by a handful of media moguls and multinational corporations? I would argue that browsing tiktok is orders of magnitude less wasteful than sitting in front of a television.
A fricken men. And I'm cusp X-boomer. But was an IT Director- they aren't hearing anything. Twitter & Meta should be looked at if they're doing this. Murdock too.
The social security administration handed over EVERY SINGLE ssn and the personal data attached to it. Every single one. To? CHINA. Sold from the inside.
TikTok made me feel like I have a community, a comfort place for people to have a voice and support. And also seeing how many foster animals get attention who otherwise would not be seen by millions of people and would be put down. It is also a place to raise funds for those in need. There are many more examples. It is so much more than just an app with funny videos.
@@Vizalchemy addiction to RUclips videos? It’s a CSPAN audio hearing of a Supreme Court case 💀. I’m Gen z too by the way. Not my fault you said you found a community online 💀
@@rickycastillo6831 Got it, Mr. Gen Z Too. Why does it have to be anyone’s fault that I found a community on TikTok? 💀 Just chill, I acknowledge your opinions, and have a nice day - through touching grass perhaps.
1:40:10 so covert by that definition would mean that every media team for any US celebrity or politician is partaking in covert operations. Maybe that’s what needs to be outlawed instead?
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
If only there had been this much "scrutiny" regarding FB back in 2016.
Say it again... This is crazy
There was no bipartisan congressional ban on Facebook. also facebook is american-owned
not owned by china
@@superidol238 ByteDance is the parent company of Tik Tok and is owned by China
@@matthewware8973 facebook has numerous accounts of them blatantly
selling user info and your more worried about tiktok which they havent found any proof of them selling user data
"Its called The American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin
I better see a South Park special on this in the next 10 months
Wait wait wait. So Americans can order from Wish, Temu, and SHEIN with high levels of lead as welll as child labor accusations, and they all can agree on a ban? These people.
That is a problem, too. As Justice Kavanaugh points out: the fact that multiple problems exist shouldn't stop us from being able to solve one of them now.
If you and ten other cars near you are speeding down the interstate, and you get pulled over, you cannot say "well other people were doing the same bad thing I did! Let me go!" as a defense.
The constitution gives complete authority to the federal government to control interaction/trade with other countries.
What this is entangled with is its extreme proximity to citizens rights to free association and expression.
Yes bc they are not tech companies. The US just banned the tech company Tencent. Why are you crying about that banning?
I was about to message this exact same question. Obviously banning tiktok is influenced by Musk so that x will not compete with tiktok. It has nothing to do with safety or security.
@@Autumnaul😭😂🤣👌🏽
As a non-American watching this all unfold, I have to admit that TikTok won’t be the same without Americans on it. If the ban goes through, other countries might follow suit.
US is pretty much the last major country to be banning tiktok. US is behind as usual... Here's a list of countries that have banned tiktok already ...
Senegal
Somalia
Kenya
Afghanistan
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Bangladesh
China (mainland and Hong Kong)
India
Indonesia
Iran
Jordan
Kyrgyzstan
Nepal
Pakistan
Philippines
Taiwan
Vietnam
Uzbekistan
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Czechia
Denmark
Estonia
France
Ireland
Latvia
Malta
The Netherlands
Norway
Romania
Russia
United Kingdom
Canada
Australia
New Caledonia
New Zealand
Fun fact .. Even China banned Tiktok.
Cheers.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_TikTok
@@mintoo2coolyour list is completely incorrect and wrong. For example, TikTok is not banned in China. It is self banned because they have DouYin in China. They are not banned by Chinese law.
@@mintoo2coolUK? There's a whole train load of people who are on TikTok all the time and they live in the UK
Probably change my location to Canada. I'm sure a lot of Americans will do that and I'm sure the Canadians will absolutely love that lol
They said they will shut the app down if they get banned in the US
This reminds me don’t never vote for old people in congress
This is why they’re banning tiktok, your grammar is trash gang 😂
All ByteDance had to do was divest. They're poisoning your mind, gang.
@@IceSpice896yeah the double negative is highly annoying, next to the sentence structure had me really pondering🤔
Cool, except the Supreme Court isn’t part of Congress nor are they elected Justiceships.
@@jaynun916
that's one reason why the PRC cannot confront us on the open Internet and must rely on covert operations, a humongous language barrier
They get on my nerves interrupting Noel..
Children are getting obliterated by army grade weapons in their schools. But this!!!! THIS OF ALL THINGS Gets immediate action! America is so damn cooked. The priorities are absolutely insane.
I mean it’s gonna happen Even with weapon bans..
@ so do nothing? The fact you can say that so casually is terrifying enough. This isn’t NORMAL!!! There’s no other act of evil in this world I can think to top than this. It truly shows how consciously dead we are as a society. It’s truly terrifying.
@@Stroproducedit like I said banning guns isnt gonna do anything, we should probably get rid of ARs and require training and people to be 21+ to get weapons, but at the end of the day Most of those perpetrators just stole the guns from their legally owning parents
Look at third world countries and what they go through
Not army grade jack ars e. If you know anything about military grade weapons, you would know thst an ar 15 is not combat reliable.
History repeats itself. Entering another era of Mccarthyism
It's freaking crazy
Good.
@@positivepenny5477no buddy, that's bad. McCarthy was a bad time in America
@@zacziggarot
I just wish we knew where all the posters are coming from...
obviously many of them do not have our best interests in mind.
If they pass this just wait until they try to amend it to add it to include "individuals" as a foreign adversary
All they had to do was divest. This proves it's a CCP informational warfare tool.
it already passed and that makes no sense...
surprising how many upvotes (without comment) opposition posts have... lol, something fishy/sushi going on
@@CyrilCommando
How does that prove this? Tic Tok has a business outside of China.
man, SG Prelogar is good. That is what a damn good attorney sounds like!
she's brilliant, her word salads are excellent, but beware of the salmonella
You're joking right..
Absolutely not... and she won the case as we all know! Jaja so yes she is great.
And she won it unanimously, 9-0 lol
@davidalejandro9178
she argues what she's told to argue, she's lost plenty including some recent cases
The Supreme Court asked good questions on both sides and I believe they understand this goes against free speech of Americans and that congress needs to rewrite the bill
Disagree, I think they see ByteDance as having no constitutional rights and the law only applies to ByteDance
Why does tik tok get to ban content or comments? They like to ban people but say its their first ademenmet, right?
All they had to do was divest. This proves it's a CCP informational warfare tool.
Don't ban our freedom of speech
if that app is such a good thing, why does the PRC ban it? lol
personally... being a skilled and cognizant Internet user since before its beginning... one way TikTok does damage was not mentioned, directly affecting a portion of our population, similar to what RUclips was doing before it cleaned up its act after Attorney General Barr entered office.
Arguments start 1:27
It's simple, if you know how these algorithms are trained. In order to train the recommendation models, you need ALL data about ALL users and ALL interactions, in near real-time.
ByteDance owns the model and trains the model for TikTok US. It means they must be ingesting all US data to China.
Banning this practice is not content based discrimination. It's indiscriminate to content, it's saying TT US cannot share this data of US users back to China.
So because byte dance is Chinese, you think that their selling our info to china???
@pixlzfr I think they're giving it to China for free so they don't go to jail. Yes
I tried to post two highlights from the oral argument (without any comment from me) but Google's viewpoint discrimination won't let me quote what the judges said...
let's focus on the APP before we focus on REAL WORLD PROBLEMS. yeah good job..
What are they gathering? The food I post?
Yes and your age, your location, your friends, where you go to and for how long, your messages, any photos you post, the data on your phone, numbers, photos, texts, phone calls, etc. You agree to it when you download the app and then again when you post something, you agree for them to access your mic, camera roll, and phone data.
@@Marco-ki2jr That's Facebook
@Marco-ki2jr You know Facebook, Instagram & Twitter do too right?
@MFiction60 yes and the company is only subject to US laws. Is TikTok? No. Is China ab bad actor? Yes. Fb, X, Google, are all banned in China.
This bears resemblance to the limitation on convicts in prison to speak freely. A foreign government identified as an enemy or convict is restricted from interaction with society and even free society with the convict.
Why did they keep interrupting him?
Thank you Elizabeth Prelogar!!! Profiling and background covert data manipulation for weaponization is the danger focus. Thank You Ma’am for leading this conversation and the panel is a little confused. 👍💖🐰🦄💯👍
FINALLY. I wish Trump was able to ban it back in 2020.
Fr a lot of this people , would be working regular jobs
American News is spreading propaganda. You don't see the government hold themselves accountable.
If that’s the case’ and you’re concerned about ppl in their teens/20’s going rogue ‘ why don’t you re-enforce the patriotism we used to have in this country.
With all the breeches that's been going on in these tech companies and Facebook selling people's information I'm not understanding monopolizing a conversation
Can someone explain how China can actually force bytedance and TikTok when they are registered in the cayman islands which is owned by brittan? Only the owners are Chinese citizens.
It’s smoke and mirrors. If data harvesting was the issue then Congress would have passed a law preventing everyone from doing it but instead of doing that they want to ban the Chinese company for things that are not taking place. No evidence has been provided showing the Chinese government has access to TikTok or that these things are happening. Not one example has been provided. This is a power play by American oligarchs to seize more power.
More complex than that.
The long arm of the CCP my friend. Not all is at it seems, more often than not..
Have you never heard of Chinese billionaires disappearing into government reeducation programs? They have absolute control of everything and everyone in China.
It's similar to how the United States was spying on Russia using the SR-71 Blackbird, made from titanium mined from Russia, purchased by the CIA, through shell companies in Africa.
To have 1 single lawyer deal and answer all these questions is idiotic. These questions bring up ideas that need years of research to answer, and to leave that to one person is just lazy and biased.
Not uncommon. These aren’t your everyday lawyers. These are people who have been in front of the supreme court countless times and have incredibly talented staff who prepare them.
Noel sounds comfortable and knowledgeable in front of the justices.
His argument is just not on solid foundation. During oral arguments, the court will scrutinize both sides of any case. If they’re well enough, you won’t have any idea how the ruling will go.
They banned Huawei, they are going to ban TikTok. End of story.
Hope they do. I dont care either way but i want to see all these tik tokers cry lol
Cool story, we're just going to Red book then 🤣
TikTok done for now
Time For party
Woooooohooooooooo🤣
Nope trump could still make a deal to have them sell it to the u.s.
Nope not really ,if you watched the livestream you would've known they said they'll give their final decision on Monday,if it was really "done" this hearing wouldnt've occured in the first place.
@queenolivia7924 Don't care Tik Tok drama Queen, #BANTIKTOK
The number of ads while listening to this is disgraceful...
Get premium
Get adblock or Premium. but also...the ads are American LOL
Maybe you're cheap ass should chip in for RUclips premium
It's fucking disgusting how nobody brings up the fact that Congress is most likely just out and out lying about the alleged national security garbage. That's irrelevant as a matter of law. Congress is ALLOWED to just out and out lie about their findings, and use this nonexistent national security thing as a blatant pretext. Even if the plaintiffs were able to prove that it was a blatant pretext, it still wouldn't render the law unconstitutional. And that's fucked up.
It may be unconstitutional under strict scrutiny, I think, actually. The standard of review does affect how much they scrutinize the evidence of rationale.
I’m not saying Congress is perfect, but intelligence agencies (Ex. Dept.) have been warning about the security risk for a long time. And now things are ramping up with China so it’s more pressing
@@ikerd9661 All throughout this case, the government has adamantly refused to produce any evidence during discovery showing a legitimate security interest. I can understand wanting to keep it classified, but there's no reason why they couldn't, at a minimum, have the evidence under seal and have the plaintiffs' attorneys be sworn to secrecy.
Instead, it's 100% "because we say so" as far as national security threats are concerned.
That's 100% true. Twitter & Meta are 100 times worse. Both Musk & Murdock weren't born here & want to actually choose algorithms from foreign sources - hostile sources. Tiktok isn't doing that.
@@ikerd9661Warn about Musk. There's so much more to mine there.
1:39:28 Beautiful question by Thomas, and Kagan's subsequent attempts at trying to help her former clerk were admirable but Prelogar didn't substantiate the "covert" element very well
love that government officials' just speak over him when he has a point. geriatric children running this country, worried about hypotheticals with no concrete proof of such acts.
He doesn't have point that the problem he speaks over himself and contradicts himself he an idiot
Pure comedy for the justices
Our phones are manufactured in China but an app is today’s National Security risk. 🤦🏻
This is such a great point
Get a job no more TikTok lmao
@lynne3327Not really since the phones go though the us transport system, and they probably have some tech checker
but I trust apple way more than I trust tiktok
@@TheRcguy24
I have a job, actually a career, and it's on TT! Instead of paying the overhead for a storefront and paying employees to staff it, I sell my home grown, handmade holistic medicinals & teas there. It's actually a very smart business decision, and I work hard to make it profitable.
Between photographing & making videos for products, presenting them, and packing and shipping, I work harder than many people who work for someone else, but I also make more than enough money to independently support my daughter and I and have money in savings. Can everyone who goes to a 'job' say that?
Holy shit this is a beatdown. This has gotta be the SCOTUS bar equivalent of those nightmares where you show up to class without any pants on.
Not really
it was gg when he dodged the “controlled bt bytedance question” and started talking about bezos chidldren hostage
SCOTUS is the least transparent- let's question who they are beholden to.
You know what they say about the one who smelt it dealt it!!! … all the permissions you CAN give but DO NOT have to(contacts, camera, microphone, etc..) are the same for GOOGLE, FACEBOOK… and on and on. They’re scared of future blackmailing? Does our government currently do such things and that’s why it’s the first we’ve heard of user data being used for this purpose?? While I really like this solicitor general… she better have been able to see this privy history file on the fears of TikTok. THEN also be able to say with a straight face that American companies want to be the only ones who do it to us lolol I mean do do it either.
I trust an American company that wants to find the best way to get me to buy their products, more than I do an authoritative human rights government that wants the fall of my own country and democracy. But hey I guess you like comparing apples and oranges, both fruit am I right?
China is not just a foreign country, it is way different from foreign countries that is in your mind.
many metaphors used are very tricky and not very applicable.
So, I guess I’m confused on the uses of the words “speaker” and “speech” because the “speakers” are TikTok content creators who are free to speak what they want even if social media apps were never invented. However they’re arguing around the algorithm being TikToks ability to speak with no internally generated content? If someone passes me a note and tells me to give it to someone else, can I claim that as my speech? Someone set me straight.
Tik Ceo: We're not owned by the Chinese government.
Chinese Ministry of foreign Affairs: any divestment of tik tok would first have to be approved by the Chinese government.
Tik tok ceo: 😕😕😕
Obviously banning tiktok is influenced by Musk so that x will not compete with tiktok. It has nothing to do with safety or security. Or else the us government would ban Tiktok Teemu and SHEIN in one motion.
LOL
but right
Totally wrong. It has nothing to do with the ownership. This kind of business activities has to get permission from all related governments, including US government.
@@bmoue1006 no you're totally wrong! It's owned by the trash CCP! And our national security is more important than you thinking your propaganda platform has any rights, don't like it go cry to xi.
@@bmoue1006 Got caselaw?
Permission for free speech?
How does that work in the U.S.?
It’s a legitimate concern. To ignore or deny the possibility of data collection by a US adversary in an application they created is simply ignorant.
I know… “govt bad me mad” crowd won’t like to hear this, but it’s the truth.
Sounds like there are some great minds considering all angles here.
Then we should stop receiving products from China, make a better "firewall" so our ssn can stay put of their hands, etc.
We get basically EVERYTHING from China, so are we going to address that as well?
The owner of twitter just threw the election to the least qualified person to ever hold office. We don’t need china to fuck us over. We’re doing it to ourselves. Or are we gonna ban twitter next?
I think TikTok's team had a good point though. Simply ban the sale or sharing of sensitive information, per the risks. Forcing divestiture is hardly a proportionate response in my opinion.
@@SECTOR-si2cbI think forcing divestiture shows their true intent of wanting full absolute control over the most popular social media platform in the country
@@SECTOR-si2cbWhat about China’s National Intelligence Law of 2017, specifically Article 7 ?
"global team of engineers"
so effectively an adhoc country that is not a recognized as a country by the U.S.
The Military is going to lose its biggest recruitment platform when they ban TikTok
Nope. You can not rule or argue on something you do not comprehend. None of these people express an authentic understanding of code or how it is created and how easily it can be changed.
this something is a legal question. 9 lawyers are more than qualified to determine the constitutionality of a law
@jonathanlee6052 I listened to the entire oral session. They are qualified as lawyers. Not as interpreters. They can not decipher what the actual issue is and focus instead on an exact thing. In this case, the 1st amendment. They conflate the right to post materials under freedom of speech with the meta data that is associated with a post to the platform. The meta data is the concern as it regards content .. not the actual content. They never figured that out even though it was expertly described by both sides of the argument. The justices never grasped this at all. How can they be effective without knowing what they are talking about?
@@AtomkeySinclairTikTok does NOT allow Free Speech, anywhere on their platform. And if you have an issue with the way they do things there and or want to post something that will benefit the general public, TikTok has a rude habit of taking down multiple videos and photos that THEY don't agree with. TikTok will then offer to give you an appeal as to why they removed your post but, that's a joke too. Nobody on TikTok is allowed to voice their opinion and TikTok also bans members all the time because of Chinese censorship laws.
This has literally nothing to do with code or how the app is programmed.
@@btpips If it doesn't have to do with the code, and that makes the algorithm perform work by the way, then what does it have to do with? You cannot collect data without the code. You cannot share the data without code. If the code was open sourced, then the issue would have never existed because transparency would show what is going on behind the scenes. The Solicitor General attempt to clarify that over and over but no one seemed to grasp it. In reality, no one gives a dang what anyone posts - post away. That is absolutely not the issue. The meta data of the post is the issue, and it's removal has nothing to do with the content of the post because you never see it = the user never sees it, and the audience never sees it. It is the abstraction of the user's metrics that are bound to the account of that particular user that is of interest. That data is priceless to anyone that knows how to shuffle it. Not only that, but it is recyclable as a commodity.
If you couldn’t figures out how to sign on to an app without your grandkids help you shouldn’t be making decisions on it’s existence.
Most of the SC are Gen X which is the generation that created and built these platforms. WTF are you talking about?
@@gtjohns220true most of the dinosaurs are gone (hopefully Thomas is next), but unlike the congress/senators who made themselves look very ignorant in their TikTok hearing, the judges are asking very narrow legal questions, I don’t believe they’re any more qualified to make decisions on anything outside their expertise
@@vondas1480 thomas is gone and will be replaced by a 35 year old Federalist judge like Cannon. All of the judges accept Cannon are very well versed and are experts on this lane of law. Even the conservatives know the law they just chose to get paid to use that knowledge to find a reason to support the bribers position. ByteDance should've spent money buying Thomas and Alito RVs and vacations.
@@vondas1480 if only anyone cared what a teenager like you thought, it might matter
That’s not how our democracy works sorry moronic child
why are they non-stop interupting tiktoks attorney
It’s what they always do with any case. Old boomers with entitlement issues and a superiority complex
They get to the point, they are the deciders and they have already read the arguments in detail. Even cases from the 80s have this.
@@Filmshakeexactly otherwise these arguments could go on for days
He keeps dancing around their questions so they are cutting off the BS. They hear cases and slick lawyers everyday and can see his diversions from a mile away.
@@Filmshakeexactly the lawyers for TT kept repeating themselves going nowhere. Dancing endlessly
They don't want us to know the truth.. TikTok platform is where we have a voice
Listening to this and I’m really thinking by just the way the voices sound they are siding with tik tok and the American people the US congress has no solid proof or any other argument on why it should be banned besides it’s Chinese
1. there is no shut down by US government, there is a request by law to dinvest. Bytedance chose to shut down because it can not fight chinese government. 2. government has no issue with tiktok and its creator and content, it has issue with the influence of its ultimate owner who is controlled by a foreign adversary.
PREACH BRO PREACH
then the US should revise its thinking and stop labeling china as a adversary.
TikTok’s US-based content is stored on servers in Loudoun County, Virginia (suburb of Washington, D.C.) and Oregon on servers owned by Oracle (a literal U.S. Defense Contractor) with data worked on by Los Angeles, California-based staff right here in the USA; EU- and UK-based content is stored in Ireland, and the rest are stored in Singapore. TikTok’s Chinese-headquartered but United Kingdom (Cayman Islands)-incorporated parent company ByteDance practically (further owned by international investors incl. Americans, Chinese, etc.) only keeps the rights/copyright to the source code and collects the money made by its subsidiary known as TikTok which is headquartered in Singapore. TikTok (International Version) and Douyin (Chinese Version) use a lot of the same technology (practically the same product) but its use, access, data storage, and administration is bifurcated between the Republic of Singapore for TikTok and the People’s Republic of China for Douyin. The only reason as to why the U.S. is trying to ban TikTok from non-governmental personal uses, is because Facebook, Twitter (X), and Google (Alphabet) lobbied Congress to in effect get rid of their competition for them; and others want TikTok banned because too many young people use it to communicate with each other to criticize governments, social movements, corporations, and certain social norms for their hypocrisy and unethical behavior. Plus, companies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google collect a lot of the same data as TikTok, but far worse implications to Americans because these American companies can use or sell our information to figure out our life patterns, advertise to us, and stalk us to do who knows what, while even if China gets our information it’s not that useful for them unless we plan on moving to China for some reason (I’m talking about the general public - not government institutions and some corporations that need to protect confidential information and proprietary trade secrets) . Even if China wanted the data, they can just simply buy it off of the endless American corporations that collect unnecessary amounts of data on us which is an already common practice in the United States - plus we have less privacy rights in relation to keeping our information safe from corporations than most other developed countries, especially those in the European Union - this is because many allege and subjectively interpret our constitution and privacy laws as only (ideally speaking really only) protecting us from government as opposed to both government and corporations. The current TikTok ban only exists for these reason, it’s not altruistic. The only reason TikTok suppresses or promotes certain topics whether they be conservative-leaning or liberal-leaning / pro-this or anti-that /mindless fluff pieces or educational content, etc. is based on the socio-cultural sensibilities, demands, and desires of the American market; it’s true that there’s going to be messed up content on TikTok, just as much as it’s on Facebook, Instagram, RUclips (Google-Alphabet), and Twitter (X), but an outright ban based on this is just a bad take.
you summarized well.add Tiktok argues that this titok ban/divesture is an attack against Americans first amendment right
Not true, America wants to control the algorithm, this was not an issue until people started making more political content on the platform, this app was musically about 7 years ago and never had an issue until people started really giving opinions on there. The younger generation doesn’t generation is tired of hearing that china is an enemy, it’s so tiringgggg.
Seriously tho like wtf?? Lmao we got bigger fish to fry
Those same Congress members that wanted the ban were and are currently on TikTok. 🙄
Tik tok is exclusively for the low
I. Q.
Makes sense
So? The same Congress members that want more fuel efficient cars drive less fuel efficient cars. The same Congress members who want higher taxes currently pay lower taxes. I don't understand what you're getting at.
@@John-tr5hnthey are getting at hypocrisy
Can you name specific current members of Congress who have accounts on TikTok?
No they’re not, they banned it on all government phones in 2022
Keep it banned so we can all go back to real life again!!!
Hearing this case, the Supreme Court has valid reasons and tbh I don’t see how TT is winning this
They literally don’t understand how the internet works, and their whole argument is based off hypotheticals when it is STRESSED REPEATEDLY that the federal government has NO EVIDENCE.
Interesting because I feel the exact opposite from this case
@ how do ? Because from the arguments, TikTok keeps dancing around the stance of freedom of speech. The Supreme Court argues that their real issue has to do with ByteDance and the exploitation of our data/potential. They don’t feel comfortable with a company that’s not really under US jurisdiction to have our information. TikTok imo kept dancing around that point and was playing semantics. They informed us we don’t have an issue with TikTok Algorithm, we don’t have an issue with Free Speech, we’re not against TT, we are against ByteDance in control of that ecosystem. They to me didn’t have any solutions to it outside of saying it would take a lot of resources to duplicate the operations and perks ByteDance is providing for TT. One can argue it just seems like obviously ByteDance doesn’t want to sell (why would they) at the same time though, the government isn’t against TikTok. They want ByteDance out the picture
@@ChillandSleep_ america’s national security Trump‘s everything else. When both republican and democratic members of Congress are telling you that we’ve got a national security problem then there must be some substance to their claim. The court should take that very seriously.
@@YazanAbdullahMDtrump was the one who started this conversation and he only switched up once he saw the numbers and engagement from the youth lol, should 100% be banned if not for security purposes than for our own sanity and attention spans lol
One key point about divestment. TikTok is a property/business owned by an individual, is there any difference between forcing it to shutdown and divestment?
The debate makes me feel that divestment is legitimate and beneficial to TikTok’s owner, but is de facto force someone to sell his cash-cow business
"owned by an individual" But is that individual a U.S. citizen?
Give me 51% of TikTok if not then TikTok will go dark!
DC only upheld this not because they agree but because they wanted this to go to SCOTUS and get struck down
Stop talking about it and be about it. Bye tik tok!
Let’s stop Musk and X and also Apple they snooped on your phone 📱
@@toddm6999 nah
Fr 😂
Twitter & Meta are so much worse.
NOEL FRANCISCO attorney for TikTok wants to adhere the free speech rights of "millions" of users to this case-- the case is not about free speech for "end USERS" since this is monitored by the private platform itself. Manhattan Community Access Corp. v. Halleck, 587 U.S. (2019); NetChoice, LLC v. Moody, 34 F.4th 1196 (11th Cir. 2022);
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, chopped the point up. Very sharp.
And this is why Facebook and Twitter are now fellating Trump.
Exactly. We don't want them.
Foreign influence campaigns are fascinating
Tik Tok's Osama Bin Laden letter to America remember that?
huh ?!
No, I don't remember that. Osama Bin Laden was killed in May of 2011 if I remember correctly. I don't even think TikTok existed at that time.
that was creators on the platform, not the platform itself.
@@gusrockesand it got extremely famous for a reason. Also it was likely put out by the same groups
What about it?
People saying it should be banned are wrong, THIS app is peoples main incomes, thousand-millions of small businesses and creators use this app to make money, and no they can switch apps because it ALGORITHM, TikTok is the only platform I and many others have a voice.
Hear me out, I don't think you or anyone should've ever made content creation on a CHINESE SITE/APP your main income source ,and even if your gonna do that make sure you diversify and go to other platforms just in case one collapses. And if your gonna argue that without TikTok people r gonna go broke because of an algorithm... NO if people who r mainly on TikTok try to move to another app they would do just fine, like if you move your shit to insta you'll be fine if you establish your audience, and if TikTok is gonna get banned people will prolly move there anyway. And for some clarification the reason it's getting banned is because when you are in that app CHINA is going to collect your data, and prolly sell it or use it for whatever they want, and China is one of our main worldly enemies.
Ps: If I got anything wrong or if something needs clarification I gotchu
@jaylenjackson69 Fr
Do you fw my comment
@@CalebDailey-vg4jwwell said. They people will learn their lesson in a hard way.
@@17kadiatouand yet y’all sign up to release your data on Temu, League of Legends, and so many Chinese based app. You allow Mark Zuckerburg to sell your data to Russia…nice try
@@CalebDailey-vg4jw the only evidence they have if the China taking our data are only speculation, plus, the algorithm on TikTok is miles better than on yt or instagram, for example, i have tried to make videos on all 3 websites and the easiest one to go viral on is TikTok, I got a 1m view video only have 5 videos posted, that’s why I’m saying small business need TikTok because it’s the easiest to go viral, and your wrong abt the national security risk because they aren’t going after other Chinese companies in America like SHEIN, they want to take away a platform where our voices are heard more than others, plus In the lower courts some of the justices said that TikTok is against democracy so it should get banned, which is violating the first amendment. Also in the first amendment you’re allowed to post media on foreign news outlets even though it’s an enemy country.
they gon lose dum money for removing tiktok
It'll go somewhere else, not worried about it. Bye bye tik tok 😊
Who’s gonna lose money? Fuck r u talking abt
●●● COMBINATION OF.....
how’s this making my groceries cheaper again?
Get a better job
@ most intelligent trump/elon dickrider response
People making a living on TikTok will lose their jobs and no longer be able to buy groceries which lower the groceries demand ☝️🤓
@@squishysquidy-cv6pe most intelligent trump voter
@@jgao Tik Tok users complaining they will lose their 'job' is hilarious. Its not like Tik Tok is special. If my livelihood was on Tik Tok and I heard a possible ban was coming a YEAR ago I would have made sure to start moving my base of operations and followers over to another platform. You can't just sit there and be like "huh, hope it will work itself out" when you had the ability to take action months ago and at least prepare for a downfall.
应该禁止TikTok
Why
Never mind TikTok the Supreme Court needs to be restore our second amendment rights
What a corrupt useless bunch of incompetence! Disgusting!
And you are?
@@agnusdeiquitollispecatamundi they aren’t above just because they’re government, they are tyrants and want to keep us from the outside world
They can still sell it to the u.s and save it even after Jan 19. Just sell it.
It won’t save it because they won’t sell the algorithm. The sale would also destroy the app
They will not put that algorithm into is tech billionaires hands
@@chalbio *other
@@The1commenterguy US*
强盗，不卖就不能用这是自由民主吗？
Wake me when Trump goes to the Supreme Court and gets the Merchan charges dropped. Juan for Gitmo
Just sell it to a US citizen. The Chinese Government doesnt want to let it go.
It's because of the algorithm. America has a right to control the algorithm. China on the other hand does not want to hand the algorithm over. It makes sense. If Bytedance could sell TikTok without the algo, it would do so in a second. But it's the algo that China is protecting and for good reason.
@@YazanAbdullahMDwhat’s the algorithm of Apple which snooped on our phones and Google .. I feel they are equally dangerous … slippery slope here
@YazanAbdullahMD The attorney for TikTok repeatedly said the government wants TikTok to CENSOR content. The algorithm the government wants is to censor, nothing more.
@@YazanAbdullahMDwell then that’s a problem. Why they don’t want to sell the algorithms ? Now I see why they want to ban it.
@@17kadiatouhave you used tiktok? Its because the algo is so much better than meta's or any competitoe
We are so cooked
The government is so concerned about an app, but doesn't care about real world issues??? Like they care about a stupid app... Jesus.
No lies detected
Americans are not "brands" for sale. I mean WTF?
Bravo to CSPAN FOR SUPREME COURT TIKTOK WORDS.
These justices clowns 🤡 (6) already know what they want to do.
yes what is taking them so long
A rabid thoughtless partisan. Shocking. Its nice that your opinion is relegated to its proper place in things. Irrelevance.
Thank god they're doing it
Another political case that should not have been accepted.
@@beanerbonlet’s take Apple to jail than for eavesdropping on our phones
Sad how many people clamoring for authoritarianism. 😢
Have you taken a gander at X lately??
I am against authoritarianism in the U.S.
but this law does not apply to any U.S. company
China could sell the company and start anew, but it cannot continue as-is
Right? "Don't obey in advance " - Timothy Snyder. "Don't obey at all" - Me.
Twitter, META, Wapo , all of them. Just no.
authoritarianism? or algorithymism? :-0)
Compare to communist these attorneys are naive.
1:41:15
Is the algorithm itself is all about data harvesting. Therefore is it about data security ?
9-0 incoming💀
Y’all were they laughing at???
How about let’s keep TikTok for entertainment but content creators give TikTok alias stage names and nobody use their real name? Problem solved for 80 percent of content.
I think the percentage of the those whom it wouldn't work for is too low. There are a huge number of people who make a living on TT and need to register our real names.
This case has NOTHING to do with CONTENT. We have no problem with an American extoling the virtues of China and shitting on America. That's not the issue. The issue is: The algorithm that determines A-what American minds are exposed to and B-what info China can collect about more than half of the American population is controlled and can be be interrogated by China at ANY TIME China deems necessary. IN FACT, there is no proof that China is already doing that. This whole case has nothing to do with free speech or first amendment. It has everything to do with national security of America visa v its number one economic and military global competitor and creditor, China! Any patriotic American should easily understand this.
TikTok’s US-based content is stored on servers in Loudoun County, Virginia (suburb of Washington, D.C.) and Oregon on servers owned by Oracle (a literal U.S. Defense Contractor) with data worked on by Los Angeles, California-based staff right here in the USA; EU- and UK-based content is stored in Ireland, and the rest are stored in Singapore. TikTok’s Chinese-headquartered but United Kingdom (Cayman Islands)-incorporated parent company ByteDance practically (further owned by international investors incl. Americans, Chinese, etc.) only keeps the rights/copyright to the source code and collects the money made by its subsidiary known as TikTok which is headquartered in Singapore. TikTok (International Version) and Douyin (Chinese Version) use a lot of the same technology (practically the same product) but its use, access, data storage, and administration is bifurcated between the Republic of Singapore for TikTok and the People’s Republic of China for Douyin. The only reason as to why the U.S. is trying to ban TikTok from non-governmental personal uses, is because Facebook, Twitter (X), and Google (Alphabet) lobbied Congress to in effect get rid of their competition for them; and others want TikTok banned because too many young people use it to communicate with each other to criticize governments, social movements, corporations, and certain social norms for their hypocrisy and unethical behavior. Plus, companies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google collect a lot of the same data as TikTok, but far worse implications to Americans because these American companies can use or sell our information to figure out our life patterns, advertise to us, and stalk us to do who knows what, while even if China gets our information it’s not that useful for them unless we plan on moving to China for some reason (I’m talking about the general public - not government institutions and some corporations that need to protect confidential information and proprietary trade secrets) . Even if China wanted the data, they can just simply buy it off of the endless American corporations that collect unnecessary amounts of data on us which is an already common practice in the United States - plus we have less privacy rights in relation to keeping our information safe from corporations than most other developed countries, especially those in the European Union - this is because many allege and subjectively interpret our constitution and privacy laws as only (ideally speaking really only) protecting us from government as opposed to both government and corporations. The current TikTok ban only exists for these reason, it’s not altruistic. The only reason TikTok suppresses or promotes certain topics whether they be conservative-leaning or liberal-leaning / pro-this or anti-that /mindless fluff pieces or educational content, etc. is based on the socio-cultural sensibilities, demands, and desires of the American market; it’s true that there’s going to be messed up content on TikTok, just as much as it’s on Facebook, Instagram, RUclips (Google-Alphabet), and Twitter (X), but an outright ban based on this is just a bad take.
SCOTUS is tge least transparent of all. Who is paying them?
I don't get how anyone can oppose this. Tik Tok produces nothing.
It produces careers/buisness/connectivity. The young generations don’t like instagram/facebook anymore they are toxic apps and TikTok is the new fresh thing, if you think the government should be able to just step in and shut that down when half of Americans love it, you are giving the government wayyy to much power over our life. Out of all the problems in the world, this is the least of americas problems.
What do you produce then
@@Jordan_Hamptonhalf of Americans? The idea that even a third of the country has a Tik tok is crazy, China always lies about their numbers, but it's not hard for any clown to create 5 accounts but doesn't mean 5 people are using the app. Also they can find anything else new that isn't owned by a horrible Chinese Communist Party.
@@rongrongmiao3018 bullshit probably
Are you a TikTok user? What about the vile cesspool formerly known as Twitter?
Your ability to simplify complex ideas is extraordinary. It’s amazing how you make it all seem so clear and actionable.
The attorney? If yes, I agree
So next the supreme court should discuss the drones and orbs.
The supreme courts job is the determine the constitutionality of laws and rules, not investigate random crap on the internet. That would be the job of the justice department.
WHATS THE CONCLUSION?
they're going to make a TikTok video with a conclusion dance
@@redballoonluke😂
@@redballoonluke😂😂😂
they will give their final decision publicly on Monday.Majority are saying based on their attitude in the livestream it seems they'll uphold the ban but we don't know for sure until monday
@queenolivia7924 what song will they be dancing to?
it may not be fair to Bytedance but blame Xi Jiping than anyone else.
If they aren’t banning X
They should be talking about that
50 billow
Fast-tracking the “TikTok” case was a breeze, but we've been forced to watch Trump, a convicted felon, crawl through trial after trial in excruciating slow motion for over four years! Does America even have a real legal system, or is it all just a joke?
Joke. And we're sick about it
This is very upsetting. Considering how many people this app helps. There business and people who run there businesses through TikTok. We are supposed to be a free society. For the people by the people. Please do not ban tiktok
TikTok ruied and American youth. Bsically, if you're good looking and white, you could avoid inhumane working conditions and make money just by making vids of yourself that someone else is jackin off too because they think u're hot. Yet, average fold who look average have to actually have a resume and work 60-80 hr weeks and bring less money. Fuck social media.
This app also helped devalue labor and discourage young people from getting a real job. So now if you're hot, especially if you're caucasian and hot, you could avoid the torture of working hard for the money like the rest of us, and become some kinda "reviewer" or "influencer" teaching people bulllshit and replacing medical expertise with shaman BS and Hot guy protein advice vs educated Doctor advice. The heck with these apps who are deprofessionizing hard working folk and giving legitimacy to genes.
People ran businesses before TikTok, and they'll run businesses after TikTok. Most people use multiple platforms.
Exactly
Don't Ban It
Why do I feel like Israel has something to do with this?
Lobbyists
because not everyone on tiktok is pro israel and like the usa and since its Chinese company owns the app they think its a national security risk and it's bad even tho they have legitimately no proof that case
Because it does. It hates that the US can’t ban pro-palestine content on TikTok and got our government to ban it.
Israel-Derangment Syndrome
because they do, that is what started this whole thing. some republicans were caught in zoom call talking about how tik tok showing unfavorable to israel; and how that it was a "Threat" which it's not is that they can not control it like they do with FB & IG.
God help us if a bunch of boomers are going to determine our free speech rights during the information age.
Well maybe if you voted instead of wasting time on TikTok, we might have a better government and better justices.
@@John-tr5hnyou just outed yourself as uneducated, it’s the Supreme Court, what’s not clicking for you
@@John-tr5hn What's worse, tiktok with its wide variety of viewpoints and sources; or television, which is controlled by a handful of media moguls and multinational corporations? I would argue that browsing tiktok is orders of magnitude less wasteful than sitting in front of a television.
A fricken men. And I'm cusp X-boomer. But was an IT Director- they aren't hearing anything. Twitter & Meta should be looked at if they're doing this. Murdock too.
@@John-tr5hnYeah, we did.
Why are old people making decisions on technology 😭
What?
They didn't hammer home the fact that the content creators social security numbers and privet information is now in china
The social security administration handed over EVERY SINGLE ssn and the personal data attached to it. Every single one. To? CHINA. Sold from the inside.
And? It's not true, obviously you aren't a TikTok user. But so? What are they gaining
TikTok made me feel like I have a community, a comfort place for people to have a voice and support. And also seeing how many foster animals get attention who otherwise would not be seen by millions of people and would be put down. It is also a place to raise funds for those in need. There are many more examples. It is so much more than just an app with funny videos.
That’s just sad. Go touch grass. I hope they ban it.
@@rickycastillo6831you too boomer, wishing you less addiction to RUclips videos
@@Vizalchemy addiction to RUclips videos? It’s a CSPAN audio hearing of a Supreme Court case 💀. I’m Gen z too by the way. Not my fault you said you found a community online 💀
@@rickycastillo6831 Got it, Mr. Gen Z Too. Why does it have to be anyone’s fault that I found a community on TikTok? 💀 Just chill, I acknowledge your opinions, and have a nice day - through touching grass perhaps.
1:40:10 so covert by that definition would mean that every media team for any US celebrity or politician is partaking in covert operations. Maybe that’s what needs to be outlawed instead?
Prelogar is full of shit. No valid argument whatsoever.
The argument being that this covert action is being carried out by a designated foreign adversary. Did you listen to the hearing?
Excellent!
😂