That foil is huge Is anyone else getting in trouble from their better half over their foil(s) constantly getting in the way? I think my 1150 looks great in our living room ;) …
In your thievery of wakes it would be amazing if you could compare the AXIS 1310 VS SABFOIL 1550 A proper pump off !!! Rank them using your system to include dock starting stall speed etc, I’m very curious to see how that 1550 compares! Thank you so much for being the leader in our odd sport.
Now that there's gonna be a Gong Foil specifically made for pumping; Sirus, with wingspans of 116, 136, 156 and 186cm, are you going to try them? The 186cm one has an aspect ratio of 15!
@@WakeThief Nice, I'm looking forward to the video. Normally I would order it straight away, but I'm planning to move to the rocky mountains in Kanada for half a year, so I won't be foiling for a while. But the itch is gigantic to buy and try this new foil, over the last year I bought lots of Gong Frontwings and now have a quiver of 8, and I love them all when the conditions call for them. Mostly Wingfoiling in waves or foilsurfing, with the regular and high aspect Fluid Foils.
Hello! Which advance fuselage would you recommend for the ART 1401 for flat water pumping and dockstarts? Maybe the short or ultrashort? Thank you for your hep!
🙋♂️🙋♂️ When you mention "the wide span made the foil wanting to rotate in the wake", you refer to turning to the right/left instead of "falling/leaning" towards the left or right (rolling over) right?
Hi Wakethief, is a review coming for the Sab 1150/1350/1550? I am 70kg and want to Wakethief and Flatwaterpump. Do you think the Axis 1150 is still up to date? I would pair the 1010/1150 with a adv. crazy short and a p350. Do think this setup will be good? Thanks a million.
Hey looking to build my own pump foil for fun (not interested in buytoplay only buildtoplay :D) but cant find what wings angle off attack should be. Do bottom of front wing lays flat compared to fuselage and only rear wing has a little bit of camber to help rotate front wing up. I found that on others foils front wing has 3deg. angle of attack to help with lift and then I adjust rear wing for rotation of foil, right?
Positive angle on front wing. Negative angle on rear wing. Anywhere from 2-6 degree difference, depending on what you’re trying to achieve and your foil cross section selection
would the limiting factors you described at the end be lessened by a larger rider? I am 6'5" and about 220 lbs... would the 1310 behave similarly to my body type at the 1150 for you?
Not quite, but definitely somewhere between us. I would make this decision on whether you will only dock start or not. If you will only dock start, get the 1310.
Great informative video as always! What rear wing were you using to conduct the test? I wonder if using one of the smaller progressive rear foils may increase the turning ability of the wing. This has been my experience with the 1300. Have you determined the increase in pumping distance/time over the 1150? Many thanks.
These were done with 460. I tried 425 and 450 and preferred 460 for pumping. The large front wing dominates the turning / carving efficiency. Rear wing choice can help a little but I don’t believe will be transformational. I believe the pumping duration increase will be about 30s for someone who can pump a minute and maybe 60s for someone who can pump 2 min. It’s really hard to do these comparisons as conditions change daily and you need to do it on fresh legs each time.
Hi! First of all, thank you very much for all your videos and reviews. May I kindly ask you for your opinion/advice? I am new to foiling and I am interested in dock/beach starts, flat water pumping and maybe surfing small waves. I weigh 70kg and can now pump for around 20 to 30 seconds my GONG X-OVER XXL and I am wondering when it will be the right moment to jump to my next gear. After some research I was planning to buy this: - Axis ART 1401 - 75cm Aluminium 19mm mast - 460 V2 rear wing. Or maybe a 375 Progressive? - Fuselage Ultrashort Advance 640. Or maybe a Short Advance 700? What would be your recommendation for dock/beach starts, flat water pumping and connecting small waves? I am interested in time and distance, and not so worried about maneuverability. My thinking is, now I want to spend as much as possible on the foil doing gentle turns. Maybe in the future I can start thinking on tight turns and carving. I am also considering Foil Drive Gen2 to progress faster in this early stage. Thank you very much in advance for your help. I really value your opinion.
I have the 1150, bought the board you suggested, but it’s so small, it’s very tough to get up. (Two bad knees, replacement surgery wait list) I think I need a much bigger board so I can stand up on it while I rope start behind my boat?
Great videos! I'm so torn between getting the 1150 or the 1310. I'm a really advanced surfer and am about 155. Will the 1150 make pumping and gliding be better at this weight? I'm worried the 1150 will be too much work for the canals I want to cruise in and the 1310 will be too boring for wake thiefing
I think that’s a fair assessment. 1150 will be fun at your weight. Your weight will struggle to turn 1310 more than 1150. If you want to wake thief, go 1150.
Great question Teal as I too am a lightweight (65kg) and am really torn about which of the new SAbfoil wings to get. The WL1150 or WL1350. I'm basing all my judgements on Wakethiefs Axis reviews and am hoping he may do a Sabfoil review soon
Thanks! Do you think this foil would be better for a guy my weight 210? And if you were to put a 1-10 number on turning ability, could you compare the 1150 and the 1310? I know you said the 1310 was stiffer but how much stiffer?
Weight will make it easier for you to roll it over, but it will also amplify the tip deflection / flex. The entire foil is less rigid with the 1310 attached than the 1150. I hate to put numbers on turning ability when I can't really quantify it, but the 1150 turns quite a bit better, even when I paired the 1310 with progressive rear wings. I think you meant carbon mast stiffness (let me know if you didn't). I'd have to check my notebook for stiffness comparison between 1150 and 1310, but the tip deflection is quite a bit less with 1150 under the same loads as the 1310 (not the 61% more load I should place on the 1310 when testing to get a comparable apparent inertia in the roll direction). For the 1310, the tip deflection in roll direction (bending of mast) was about 20% less for high mod carbon vs aluminum, and tip deflection in yaw direction (torsion of mast) was about 30% less for aluminum vs high mod carbon.
I think it’s ok … in my opinion, I’d like a stiffer mast than anything out there. I was on the 1310 and high mod carbon yesterday. I am used to more yaw stiffness from the aluminum but do believe the thinner high mod carbon mast does help reduce drag and thus chose it for pump session. Like every new foil, it takes time to get used to it.
Hey Devon- great review. I had my first go on one of these today- I loved the easy glides and reduced effort but I found it a little more pitch sensitive than the 1150. As in a few times, particularly at lower speeds and sometimes turning, I found when I pushed with the front leg it just plunged in to the water. I’ve no doubt it’s probably my technique at fault but wondered if you found similar?
Yes. I believe you’re experiencing stall. When you’re in the drive phase of the pump (max front foot pressure) the foil is moving downward in the water and experiencing the highest angle of attack. All you need to do is pitch it down a bit more or speed up a bit more … or both!
@@WakeThief it actually felt that I was pitching it down too much in those instances. Seemed to respond better to shorter flatter pumps when close to stall speed. felt very different to the 1150 to me. I loved the long glides though....
Yes. It was easier to launch at a lower speed but the extra span means you need to have the board further from the dock (arms extended) to clear the dock and avoid wing touching it.
I finally got the 1310 and tried it for the first time today. It was WAY harder to dock start than the 1150/1300. When landing with the usual front foot pressure it would nose-dive immediately. You have to land more centered and then start pumping. Takes a while to get used to..
Woow. So impressed by this video and your skills. Two questions I have: 1. Is the 1310 a good option for a newbie or should I start with another foil? I already tried the W1100 for one sesh and today W1250 (Sab) maybe 10-15 tries. but I found it hard for me. 2. Should I start with a shorter mast like 75cm or better with 85cm. Is it a big difference? Thanks a lot and in advance for your answers!
1) If you want to straighline marathon pump, yes! It's similar in operability as the 1250, so you might want to start with something bit smaller to pump with (1150 AXIS, as an example) before moving up to 1310. 2) Mast length is about preference. I like 75. 85 ok too, but longer masts will flex more with large front wings.
@@WakeThief Thank you so much ♥for your reply to my questions. I'm only afraid, that the 1150 has much less surface than the 1310. And I'll fail because of the smaller surface?
The Bestest Videos As Always!!! I just found out about this wing ... I want one. My current largest Wing is the ART 1099 and I like it, need about 11 mph of wind to get flying with my 6.2m Mojo and I would like to fly in less wind. On the fence between a larger hand wing and a larger foil. For foot pup flat water foiling the 1310 looks epic. The 1300 is popular for Wingfoiling. Any guess on if the 1310 will be great or just too big for Wingfoiling in light wind? Know of anyone who has tryed the 1310 for Wing Foiling? Thanks for any additional advice 🙂
I hear great things about the 1300. I've never tried it winging, but it will be faster (less drag) than 1310. 1310 will lift quicker (at lower speed) than 1300.
Exactly. The 1300 will keep you on foil longer in light wind, whereas the the 1310 will get you on foil quicker. If you don't do foil pumping you'd probably be better of with the 1300. Maybe we should wait for Dominic Hoskyns' review of the 1310 - he'll surely compare the light wind ability of the 1310 in winging.
Make board out of the SKATEBOARD DECK AGAIN, reinforce the deck this time, make the deck weigh less than 2.5 pounds total. START A DISCORD. Thanks for everything, my wing is in the mail but i am going to use my skateboard deck to save money and weight
skate decks are usually not wide enough so your heel and toes are right on the edge of the board. I've seen more success with old wakeboards and they are already pretty rigid. I do like the concave of a skate deck though. Maybe a longboard would work.
Really happy someone is finally taking real measurements from tests on this stuff across brands to get some standard comparison transparency. Thanks!
That foil is huge
Is anyone else getting in trouble from their better half over their foil(s) constantly getting in the way? I think my 1150 looks great in our living room ;) …
Also, try using the hand held trolling motor paddle. I have to wait like 45 days for my wing to arrive
could be interesting to have your opinion, comparison with our new w1350. :)
I’m working on it!
@@WakeThief ruclips.net/video/Grvh0d0JpNM/видео.html
@@WakeThief And we're looking forward to it.
Hi. Good one especially showing the maths! Thought I was back at Uni for second. Regards.
Ha!
In your thievery of wakes it would be amazing if you could compare the
AXIS 1310 VS SABFOIL 1550
A proper pump off !!!
Rank them using your system to include dock starting stall speed etc,
I’m very curious to see how that 1550 compares!
Thank you so much for being the leader in our odd sport.
We’re working on it!
Man, I'll try anything to up my pump duration- Great vid!
The key is to push right to the limit every time you pump!
Now that there's gonna be a Gong Foil specifically made for pumping; Sirus, with wingspans of 116, 136, 156 and 186cm, are you going to try them? The 186cm one has an aspect ratio of 15!
Working on getting it! Thanks for this
@@WakeThief
Nice, I'm looking forward to the video. Normally I would order it straight away, but I'm planning to move to the rocky mountains in Kanada for half a year, so I won't be foiling for a while. But the itch is gigantic to buy and try this new foil, over the last year I bought lots of Gong Frontwings and now have a quiver of 8, and I love them all when the conditions call for them. Mostly Wingfoiling in waves or foilsurfing, with the regular and high aspect Fluid Foils.
Ih hugo 1310 or1150 which one for beginner easy pump?? thanks very much
I am 68kg thanks
Please try the Sabfoil Leviathan 1350 and 1550 for Pumping endlessly :)
Working on it!
Hello! Which advance fuselage would you recommend for the ART 1401 for flat water pumping and dockstarts? Maybe the short or ultrashort? Thank you for your hep!
Which rear wing size is the best for pump foiling if you want to pump as far as possible?
It depends on the front wing size and rider weight, as well as the technique … for me, on the 1310, I like the 460.
Quel est le meilleur foil dock start pour toi aujourd’hui ? Facile
Have you done test and/or comparaison with the Liquidforce foil line up yet? If not, are you planing to do so?
Thank you
I haven’t tested it but am certainly interested. They’re a very well know, long-standing brand.
Heya - u should do a review on the 1401
Have you tried the advanced fuse with the 1310
Yes, I've tried them all. It does help improve yaw fluidity, but only a small amount.
@@WakeThiefwhich did you prefer short ultra or crazy
I like short. It gives better pitch stiffness which makes pumping a long time easier.
@@WakeThief thank you!
🙋♂️🙋♂️ When you mention "the wide span made the foil wanting to rotate in the wake", you refer to turning to the right/left instead of "falling/leaning" towards the left or right (rolling over) right?
Yes. Yawing instead of rolling (as shown in the video … looking down from above)
hi, is 1310 compatible with the red fuselage and mast that works for 1150 ? thank you
Yes
Hi Wakethief, is a review coming for the Sab 1150/1350/1550?
I am 70kg and want to Wakethief and Flatwaterpump. Do you think the Axis 1150 is still up to date?
I would pair the 1010/1150 with a adv. crazy short and a p350. Do think this setup will be good?
Thanks a million.
We’re working on it now!
@@WakeThief awesome to hear! Do know if there is an updated version of the 1150 coming soon?
Not that I’m aware of.
When will the 1350 review coming out? I want to pull the trigger soon. Need my 1 min Cap this season ;)
@@hjtvjzhgcjhg2532 2-4 weeks
Hey looking to build my own pump foil for fun (not interested in buytoplay only buildtoplay :D) but cant find what wings angle off attack should be. Do bottom of front wing lays flat compared to fuselage and only rear wing has a little bit of camber to help rotate front wing up. I found that on others foils front wing has 3deg. angle of attack to help with lift and then I adjust rear wing for rotation of foil, right?
Positive angle on front wing. Negative angle on rear wing. Anywhere from 2-6 degree difference, depending on what you’re trying to achieve and your foil cross section selection
would the limiting factors you described at the end be lessened by a larger rider? I am 6'5" and about 220 lbs... would the 1310 behave similarly to my body type at the 1150 for you?
Not quite, but definitely somewhere between us. I would make this decision on whether you will only dock start or not. If you will only dock start, get the 1310.
Have you tried the new Axis art pro 1201 compare it to your Axis 1150?
They are quite different. 1201 is small and fast. Harder to dock start. 1150 is larger and slower. Easier to dock start. Easier to ride smaller wakes.
Great informative video as always! What rear wing were you using to conduct the test? I wonder if using one of the smaller progressive rear foils may increase the turning ability of the wing. This has been my experience with the 1300. Have you determined the increase in pumping distance/time over the 1150? Many thanks.
These were done with 460. I tried 425 and 450 and preferred 460 for pumping. The large front wing dominates the turning / carving efficiency. Rear wing choice can help a little but I don’t believe will be transformational. I believe the pumping duration increase will be about 30s for someone who can pump a minute and maybe 60s for someone who can pump 2 min. It’s really hard to do these comparisons as conditions change daily and you need to do it on fresh legs each time.
Hi! First of all, thank you very much for all your videos and reviews.
May I kindly ask you for your opinion/advice? I am new to foiling and I am interested in dock/beach starts, flat water pumping and maybe surfing small waves.
I weigh 70kg and can now pump for around 20 to 30 seconds my GONG X-OVER XXL and I am wondering when it will be the right moment to jump to my next gear.
After some research I was planning to buy this:
- Axis ART 1401
- 75cm Aluminium 19mm mast
- 460 V2 rear wing. Or maybe a 375 Progressive?
- Fuselage Ultrashort Advance 640. Or maybe a Short Advance 700?
What would be your recommendation for dock/beach starts, flat water pumping and connecting small waves?
I am interested in time and distance, and not so worried about maneuverability. My thinking is, now I want to spend as much as possible on the foil doing gentle turns. Maybe in the future I can start thinking on tight turns and carving. I am also considering Foil Drive Gen2 to progress faster in this early stage.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. I really value your opinion.
Hi wake thief. Could you please do a review on the liquid force horizon 160 foil wing?
I was just asked the same. Will add it to our list!
@@WakeThief Thanks. Would love to see you try it!
I have the 1150, bought the board you suggested, but it’s so small, it’s very tough to get up. (Two bad knees, replacement surgery wait list) I think I need a much bigger board so I can stand up on it while I rope start behind my boat?
Please email me Steve. I’m sorry to hear that. Happy to help. Wakethief@icloud.com
Love the review! Keep up the awesome work.
What’s the red fuselage you paired this 1310 with?
I like the short.
I am very interested by this wing. Are you going to be doing an in depth review on it?
It’s on our to do list!
@@WakeThief awesome. This wing seems to be the best flat water pumper and it draws my attention. Thanks for the good videos as always
Axis 1300 or 1310 ? What would you choose? Thx
Check out our review of both. 1300 faster and higher takeoff speed.
Great videos! I'm so torn between getting the 1150 or the 1310. I'm a really advanced surfer and am about 155. Will the 1150 make pumping and gliding be better at this weight? I'm worried the 1150 will be too much work for the canals I want to cruise in and the 1310 will be too boring for wake thiefing
I think that’s a fair assessment. 1150 will be fun at your weight. Your weight will struggle to turn 1310 more than 1150. If you want to wake thief, go 1150.
Great question Teal as I too am a lightweight (65kg) and am really torn about which of the new SAbfoil wings to get. The WL1150 or WL1350. I'm basing all my judgements on Wakethiefs Axis reviews and am hoping he may do a Sabfoil review soon
Yes. Working on a SAB review now!
I'm a surfer with 180 cm and 95 kg. Can I use AXIS 1310 for surfing?
If the waves are very small perhaps but it won’t carve well. I’d recommend a smaller front wing for ocean surfing.
Hi @wakethief, thanks a lot!
Can you please compare with Indiana 1200H-AR
That would be great!!!
Will do! It’s on my list.
@@WakeThief Did you have already scheduled a date/time frame for this test?
No. We have a very long list right now. I did try it dock starting and really enjoyed it.
@@WakeThief You had already tested it dockstarting? Cool!
Can you write some words compared with Axis 1310?
That would be awesome! 😍
@@WakeThief the next one to add would be the SAB W1350
Three pump and dockstart machines!
Is the axis 1150 still your all-around favorite pumping wing for everything?
Yes
hi wake thief. Are you using the standard fuselages or the short fuselages? cheers.
Short
What is your weight?
180lb right now.
Thanks! Do you think this foil would be better for a guy my weight 210? And if you were to put a 1-10 number on turning ability, could you compare the 1150 and the 1310? I know you said the 1310 was stiffer but how much stiffer?
Weight will make it easier for you to roll it over, but it will also amplify the tip deflection / flex. The entire foil is less rigid with the 1310 attached than the 1150. I hate to put numbers on turning ability when I can't really quantify it, but the 1150 turns quite a bit better, even when I paired the 1310 with progressive rear wings. I think you meant carbon mast stiffness (let me know if you didn't). I'd have to check my notebook for stiffness comparison between 1150 and 1310, but the tip deflection is quite a bit less with 1150 under the same loads as the 1310 (not the 61% more load I should place on the 1310 when testing to get a comparable apparent inertia in the roll direction). For the 1310, the tip deflection in roll direction (bending of mast) was about 20% less for high mod carbon vs aluminum, and tip deflection in yaw direction (torsion of mast) was about 30% less for aluminum vs high mod carbon.
@@WakeThief Thank you. Yes i meant mast stiffness. Which do you feel is most important, yaw or tip deflection? LOL, Sounds like King Solomon's choice.
I think bending does matter more but definitely need adequate yaw stiffness for these larger front wings.
@@WakeThief So do you think the carbon mod mast is adequate for yaw stiffness with this 51inch span?
I think it’s ok … in my opinion, I’d like a stiffer mast than anything out there. I was on the 1310 and high mod carbon yesterday. I am used to more yaw stiffness from the aluminum but do believe the thinner high mod carbon mast does help reduce drag and thus chose it for pump session. Like every new foil, it takes time to get used to it.
How heavy are you. I’m 92kg and deciding between this foil and the 1150. What would you recommend?
Our recommendations are unchanged at 92kg vs my 80-85kg
Have you tried the Armstrong HS1850? Or do you prefer axis?
Here’s our review of the 1850 … ruclips.net/video/roccGJTaaEs/видео.html
Hey Devon- great review. I had my first go on one of these today- I loved the easy glides and reduced effort but I found it a little more pitch sensitive than the 1150. As in a few times, particularly at lower speeds and sometimes turning, I found when I pushed with the front leg it just plunged in to the water. I’ve no doubt it’s probably my technique at fault but wondered if you found similar?
Yes. I believe you’re experiencing stall. When you’re in the drive phase of the pump (max front foot pressure) the foil is moving downward in the water and experiencing the highest angle of attack. All you need to do is pitch it down a bit more or speed up a bit more … or both!
@@WakeThief it actually felt that I was pitching it down too much in those instances. Seemed to respond better to shorter flatter pumps when close to stall speed. felt very different to the 1150 to me. I loved the long glides though....
Ok. Without a doubt it does have a different technique near stall. I notice in the first few pumps after dock starting.
Have you gotten used to it? I experienced exactly the same behavior..
Yes. Like any foil it takes some getting used to finding the stall angle.
Devon did you try and dock start the 1310? I would assume it's a bit easier than the 1150?
Yes. It was easier to launch at a lower speed but the extra span means you need to have the board further from the dock (arms extended) to clear the dock and avoid wing touching it.
I finally got the 1310 and tried it for the first time today. It was WAY harder to dock start than the 1150/1300. When landing with the usual front foot pressure it would nose-dive immediately. You have to land more centered and then start pumping. Takes a while to get used to..
How many kg are you??
82kg
Woow. So impressed by this video and your skills. Two questions I have:
1. Is the 1310 a good option for a newbie or should I start with another foil? I already tried the W1100 for one sesh and today W1250 (Sab) maybe 10-15 tries. but I found it hard for me.
2. Should I start with a shorter mast like 75cm or better with 85cm. Is it a big difference?
Thanks a lot and in advance for your answers!
1) If you want to straighline marathon pump, yes! It's similar in operability as the 1250, so you might want to start with something bit smaller to pump with (1150 AXIS, as an example) before moving up to 1310.
2) Mast length is about preference. I like 75. 85 ok too, but longer masts will flex more with large front wings.
@@WakeThief Thank you so much ♥for your reply to my questions.
I'm only afraid, that the 1150 has much less surface than the 1310. And I'll fail because of the smaller surface?
What’s your weight?
@@WakeThief >90kg
1150 is fine for folks
The Bestest Videos As Always!!!
I just found out about this wing ... I want one.
My current largest Wing is the ART 1099 and I like it, need about 11 mph of wind to get flying with my 6.2m Mojo and I would like to fly in less wind. On the fence between a larger hand wing and a larger foil. For foot pup flat water foiling the 1310 looks epic. The 1300 is popular for Wingfoiling. Any guess on if the 1310 will be great or just too big for Wingfoiling in light wind?
Know of anyone who has tryed the 1310 for Wing Foiling?
Thanks for any additional advice 🙂
I hear great things about the 1300. I've never tried it winging, but it will be faster (less drag) than 1310. 1310 will lift quicker (at lower speed) than 1300.
Exactly. The 1300 will keep you on foil longer in light wind, whereas the the 1310 will get you on foil quicker. If you don't do foil pumping you'd probably be better of with the 1300. Maybe we should wait for Dominic Hoskyns' review of the 1310 - he'll surely compare the light wind ability of the 1310 in winging.
I found I liked the 1300 over the 1310 for light wind winging. The 1300 took off easier with less initial resistance.
Thanks, Nick. Makes sense
Thanks Nicholas!!!
For everyone believe him just make sure hes comparing it to a lake. So if your flat water pumping up its amazing, surfing amazing, towing amazing.
Make board out of the SKATEBOARD DECK AGAIN, reinforce the deck this time, make the deck weigh less than 2.5 pounds total. START A DISCORD. Thanks for everything, my wing is in the mail but i am going to use my skateboard deck to save money and weight
skate decks are usually not wide enough so your heel and toes are right on the edge of the board. I've seen more success with old wakeboards and they are already pretty rigid. I do like the concave of a skate deck though. Maybe a longboard would work.
@@jakedavid2523 thanks! We need to join a DISCORD
Please set one up and invite me. I’d be happy to participate.
Totally agree! I’ve had some narrow foil boards and feel the same way!
@@WakeThief ok i will send u an invite soon