The Visibility of the Church
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- Опубликовано: 9 авг 2023
- Info: blessedsacramentlutheranchurch.com
Contact: info@blessedsacramentlutheranchurch.com
"Let us always keep this statement of Paul in mind, 'Whom He chose them He also called' [Rom 8:30]. Whenever we think about the Church, we should consider the congregation of the called, which is THE VISIBLE CHURCH, nor should we imagine that somewhere else there are any chosen ones except in this VISIBLE ASSEMBLY itself. For God wants to be invoked and known in no other way than as He has revealed Himself, and He has revealed Himself in no other place than in the VISIBLE CHURCH in which alone the voice of the Gospel is proclaimed. Nor should we devise some other INVISIBLE and silent Church of people still living in this life, but the eyes and mind of the assembly of the called, that is, of those who confess the Gospel of God must be looked at, and we should know that the voice of the Gospel must sound forth among people PUBLICLY, as it is written, 'Their sound has gone out into all the world' [Ps. 19:4]. We should understand that there must be the public ministry of the Gospel and public gatherings, as it says in Eph. 4[:8ff], and to this assembly we should join themselves. We are citizens and members of this visible gathering, as it is enjoined in Ps. 26:8, 'I have loved the beauty of Your house'; and Ps. 84[:1], 'How amiable are Your tabernacles, O Lord.' These and similar passages speak not of a Platonic idea but of the visible church in which the voice of the Gospel rings out and in which the ministry of the Gospel is seen through which God reveals Himself and through which He is efficacious."
Philip Melanchthon, Locus XVII, The Church, cited in Martin Chemnitz's Loci Theologici, Part II-III, 1287.
"Is it possible to discern a pattern in the ecclesiologies of these major versions of Christianity? Without oversimplifying unduly, we may say that traditional Roman Catholicism (before Vatican II) particularly, but also Eastern Orthodoxy, externalize the Church, while Calvinism spiritualizes her. Lutheran theology, by its innermost logic, understands the church incarnationally. To put this in Christological terms, the traditional Roman ecclesiology tends toward 'Eutychianism,' in that it confuses Christ's mystical body with the visible organization headed by the pope. Calvinist ecclesiology is 'Nestorian' in letting an 'invisible church' and a 'visible church' stand side by side, without any real integration or bonding between them. The 'Chalcedonian' approach of Lutheran ecclesiology distinguishes-without separating!-the church as inward communion of faith and as outward participation in the means of grace. Since the external Gospel and sacraments are the indispensable, God-given source, foundation, and sustenance of all faith and spiritual life, these means of grace bind in one the two 'modes' of the church, and keep them from flying apart into two churches."
The Rev. Dr. Kurt Marquart, The Church and Her Fellowship, Ministry, and Governance, 10.
"[Jesus] teaches that the church has been hidden under a crowd of wicked people in order that this stumbling block may not offend the faithful, and so that we might know that the Word and Sacrament are efficacious even when they are administered by wicked people."
Apology VII/VIII.19
Anglican here-that was a great video. It is so true the point you made about how RCC/EOC apologists, on one hand, treat ‘Protestantism’ as one monolithic entity when they want to attack a certain doctrine or practice, but on the other hand yammer on about 40,000 Protestant denominations to show how hopelessly divided they are and thus everyone needs to swim the Tiber or Bosphorus.
Excellent video Rev!
Thanks for this video!
As an Orthodox. I approve largely your message. My only issue with Lutherans is the lack in your ecclesiastical structure of elders seen with the authority of the apostles even if you reject apostolic succession.
Keep up the good work! Great and very thoughtful video!
Thanks, Eric. I plan to address hierarchy and polity in a future video.
Hello Rev.
Thank you for the content. I have a question though: Where can I go to learn more about Lutheran Ecclesiology? I am looking for a book/resource that summarizes the Lutheran doctrine of The Church (What the Church is, What are the boundaries of the Church, Lutheran view of those outside Lutheranism, Lutheran view of sacraments outside the Lutheran body etc.).
I would appreciate it if you could help direct me in the right direction for learning the Lutheran view of these things.
With regard to any questions related to Lutheranism, those formal, fundamental principles are addressed in the 1580 Book of Concord. In regard to the Church, more specifically, you ought to read:
Augsburg Confession, Articles V (On the Ministry), VII/VIII (On the Church, XIV (On Church Order), XXVIII (On Ecclesiastical Power)
Apology of the Augsburg Confession, Articles VII/VIII, XIV, XV, and XXVIII
Smalcald Articles, Part 3, Article XII
Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope
In addition to the Book of Concord, I would recommend
Philip Melanchthon's treatment of this Locus in his Loci Communes
Martin Chemnitz's treatment of the same in volume I of his Loci Theologici
Johann Gerhard's Theological Commonplace On the Church
All of these can be found at Concordia Publishing House
The book I mentioned in the video by the Rev. Dr. Kurt Marquart, The Church, in the Confessional Lutheran Dogmatics series is quite good.
That's more than a start for you.
1. So the external means of grace would be the Word of God in 3 forms - baptism, Lords Supper, and Scripture read or preached?
2. That is, could not the church be without baptism or the Lords Supper but still have the external means of grace, the Scripture?
3. my understanding of the Lutheran position is that since baptism has existed for the last 2000 years, the church has always been visible. Is this correct?
4. Are the errors in the Roman Mass enough that the sacrament is not rightly administrated to the degree that it is no longer an external means of grace?
5. Is it your position that baptism, the Lords Supper have been correctly administered for the last 2000 years even with the presence of errors that dont fundamentally change the sacrement?
6. Is this also true for the Scriptures read or preached - that is, this external means has continued to bring sinners to trust in Jesus despite the existence of human errors?
Hi Rev, great video. I have a question about a common question to the reformation. We know that the reformers view was that the Church has never died, but yet there were accretions that crept in that needed to be removed. How can we as Protestants maintain that the Church can be guided into all truth (John 16:13) but yet also recognize that there were errors that crept in?
Thanks again for your videos, they’ve been extremely edifying for someone who is looking into more historic Protestantism coming from a Baptist background!
Hi Matthew. The question regards the proper understanding of John 16:13. As you alluded, most Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians assume that our Lord has in view later Councils, which is why it is asserted that the Lord Jesus oversaw the Councils, and the Holy Spirit inspired them, such that they are believed to be infallible. Our Lord does not seem to have the Church, as it is confessed by Rome and the East, in mind when speaking to His holy Apostles in John 16. So, He did, indeed, lead the Holy Apostles into all truth, which we now possess in the Apostolic deposit, contained in the Prophetic and Apostolic Scriptures of the Old and New Testament. This is further attested in John 17, when, in the High Priestly prayer, Jesus prays, not only for the Apostles, but for those who will believe through their Word. So He prays in verse 17: Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
That there will be and remain Christ's holy Church on earth is the promise He makes in Matthew 16 when He says that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Confession that He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. So, the Gospel--that central proclamation of all of Sacred Scripture--has never failed to obtain in the world, despite errors that have crept into the Church throughout the last 2,000 years. Errors or accretions of one sort or another are not to be thought of as the triumph of the gates of hell. There has not been a period since Holy Pentecost where the confession "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God" has failed. Even following something like Nicaea I, when many in the Church fell to the heresy of Arianism, a few in number, such as St. Athanasius, continued to profess the truth. So, the short of it is, even if a very small number continue in this confession and faith, the gates of hell have not prevailed.
@@marcuswilliams7448 really appreciate the answer, clarifies a lot of things. God bless!
@@matthewschraith8434 My pleasure. Feel free to contact me through the contact in the video description if there is anything else I can help you with. If you're interested in finding a Confessional Lutheran church near you, I'm glad also to help.
@@marcuswilliams7448 thanks, I’ll reach out!
What’s the painting in the thumbnail?
I don't know the answer, Lorenzo. Apologies. I saw it somewhere and saved it.
@@marcuswilliams7448 Alright. I'll try to do a reverse search on Images. Thank you anyway :)