Limited quicksaves is what always added that extra tension to the Hitman games for me. Priceless, really. Especially in a game where precision and preparation is such a factor.
Dear Mr. Biscuit; Thankyou so much for keeping up the 1080p goodness. It's one of those things that once you've had it, you can't remember how you did without it. Top jobbing.
Abes Oddworld and Oddysee were both pretty solid quick-save reliant games. The way that lots of the puzzles would result in inevitable death or losses, it made sense to be able to have checkpoints wherever you want.
TB, MANY games have done this previously, quick save exits the game, when you load the save it deletes that save. it allows you to jump out of a game without losing your progress between checkpoints. In my opinion, this is really all you need.
I agree. Someone who is/wants to be good at making anything isn't going to get up in arms because someone said that a particular part of what you did was bad.
I believe it was Burnie from Rooster Teeth that said something to the effect of "People are complaining that the end would resolve your choices, but what people don't realize is that the whole game is the ending." Very much simplifying and paraphrasing, but you get it. I don't entirely agree with that, but I think, to a degree, people do forget that fact. I'm replaying ME1, and I do have to say, it bums me out a tad to know what my last decision will be, but it doesn't diminish the ride any less
The problem with a checkpoint system is that if you have to go take care of something important immediately or you need to leave for some reason and then come back to the game, say, a few hours or days later, all of your progress will be lost. It also forces the gamer to set aside tons of time to play because they don't know when the next checkpoint will be, and this is difficult for many people. Having a quicksave function allows someone to quickly save their game and play it on their own time.
The problem I have with checkpoints is that they are often placed right before you would need them. It feels like "Oh, there's that little save simbol, better prepare for a boss right behind this door.".
I like the old JRPG system of saving. When you aren't in a dungeon save anywhere you damn well like but when you are in a dungeon you can only use save points and if you get in danger you have to teleport out or just hope you make it to the save point. Of course this doesn't work for every game but i always felt it worked pretty well as long as save points weren't to sparse.
On the note of quicksaves, another compromise that I know has been used in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (and possible other games) is having optional save points (effectively checkpoints, but not automatic) at certain places, but also the option to quicksave, with the drawback being that upon quicksaving, you are returned to the title screen, and once you load the game the quicksave is deleted, making the quicksave effectively a 'Pause' that lets you turn off the console.
As someone who only played ME3 the reapers looked pretty terrifying. Huge killer robots from space coming to destroy all life in the universe every x centuries. Might just be me.
Sometimes you just dont want the answer but also a thorough explanation of the topic at hand. It could also be good to exchange ideas and listen from another persons perspective.
I was here like a hour ago, and some guy said "thank god for the video", someone replied "why are you thanking your made up friend, thank tb instead" And thats how it all started, glad to help.
Wow. I've never seen a comment on a video like this comment. This makes complete and total sense and is true. I'm surprised that you'd have the balls to say that, a lot of the time this would start a war in the comments based on religion. You awesome sir! :)
Oh man, I still remember the terrible checkpoint I got in Call of Duty 2 in the battle for Hill 400. Primary weapon had 3 bullets, secondary was empty, low on health and suddenly a mass of enemies spawns right on me. I was stuck on that checkpoint for about 40 minutes until I finally managed to slip out of the situation. I've hated the checkpoint systems from that point on.
My opinion on Quicksaving is that the game should probably close AFTER you quicksave, so you won't use it every 2 seconds, but when you actually need it.
I think quick saves should always be available to the player. It provides the most flexibility by giving the play the freedom to treat them however they want. Don't use them at all, spam them, treat them like checkpoints, whatever. I personally like being able to save anywhere/anytime because I might want to replay a cool level or look at some awesome scenery.
What's the prob in pause menu saves? I don't have a problem going on my pause menu to save unless it's skyrim where it takes ages to get on to the save menu. Saving on that takes longer then some of the load screens
Giving you a choice is not "dumbing it down". You can choose to quicksave, you can choose not to quicksave. No that sounds familiar, who else has said that recently... Oh yes, it was Total Biscuit, you know, the guy who's video we just watched! -_- If you're gonna watch his videos, pay attention to them. It's a valid point.
Considering EAWare came out and said that the Indoctrination Theory was pretty much just something fans came up with to console themselves, I'd have to say that the ending was a perfect example of Ball Dropping. Not in the pubescent sense, either. They said in a QA release a while back that the ending explanation DLC was going to consist of 0 game play, and was just going to show what your crew was doing, as well as how the various fleets and people would not starve to death.
In the console version of The Witcher 2 you can always save exept when you're in combat. It's comparable to quicksaving but it only takes a few secs longer. I really like this method and perhaps it works well in some other games.
"Not really interested in covering Day Z yet as the dev has expressed his wish that people wait until it's more feature-rich and complete" TB's answer on twitter.
the seting of revelations 2012 would work in a old-school doom-ish way. with some good artwork and neat gameplay, i'd probably be interested in playing it...
I play on consoles, and I still dearly love quicksaves. I feel TB was kind of wrong to say it's not a quick save just because you have to go into the menu, its a quick save because you can save it where ever and when ever you want. Check points on the other hand save whenever you get to a certain point, so if you have to turn off the machine as it's time to do something (like go to work, for example) then you lose all your progression since it last saved.
An example of a saving feature done near perfectly has to be Dark Souls. You can go to a previous save point if you messed up but it works better than most RPGs and I hope it stays the same in the upcoming Pc-version.
my problem mostly is that videos restarts or *jump* backwards a bit. and the loadingtime on videos are 5 times longer then ussual. Failtube is returning..
I like games that don't have JUST quicksaves or JUST checkpoints, but both, because if you don't save often enough you lose hours sometimes of progress and that just crushes gamers
I remember playing Halo 2 back in the day driving a Warthog through a checkpoint. The game saved right as I hit a rock, flipped the jeep and it crushed me. Then every time reloaded that checkpoint it brought me back right as I was about to get crushed again providing a series of constant squishy deaths. Fucking jeeps.
why does that revelations 2012 review that's being mentioned sounds very much like one of mine grammatically but they are apparently a professional review site........... how ?
15:30 The "original" AvP (actually the second Rebellion-developed Alien vs Predator FPS) didn't have quick-saving at all until people complained about the game being too hard, and by that point the saving system was patched in. I haven't quite decided which version of the game I prefer, but I applaud Rebellion for actually thinking about the issue and deciding to add a limited amount of saves instead of just haphazardly throwing in unlimited time-travel post mortem like, say, Far Cry 2 on PC.
never had that problem, pretty sure i'd backtrack if i really really needed to save. sides, battles that could kill you outright always had a save point nearby.
Quicksaves/save states are good for games like Skyrim. There's alot of bugs and your game can freeze on that game, and then there's stupid glitches like you get stuck in a rock. Being able to reload a save state is extremely helpful.
TB you have to make a `wtf is`on the day-z mod for ARMA 2. It will bring the next generation of zombie survival games. It is one of the best game concepts I've seen in a along time.
I completely agree on that. Thing is, this started by kid saying that games must be made so that it is easier to play, because he doesn't like challenge. And I am very tired of bunch of "gamers" whining how that or another must be changed in games, because they don't like it. Hell, you don't like it - deal with it, or play something else. Don't force devs change their game to suit your likings. Also you are first person this week to make sense in youtube comments when answering to my post. GJ.
lol, I came home for lunch break half an hour ago and checked the halibut feed, nothing new so I go watch some music vids instead, now mailbox is up and I got to go back to work :( Ahh well, I shall enjoy later.
Far as I can tell The "Friends and Family" is 70% of the Dev team. I honestly don't think barely anyone outside of the Dev. team played this game before it was released.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Limited quicksaves is what always added that extra tension to the Hitman games for me. Priceless, really. Especially in a game where precision and preparation is such a factor.
Dear Mr. Biscuit; Thankyou so much for keeping up the 1080p goodness. It's one of those things that once you've had it, you can't remember how you did without it. Top jobbing.
Abes Oddworld and Oddysee were both pretty solid quick-save reliant games. The way that lots of the puzzles would result in inevitable death or losses, it made sense to be able to have checkpoints wherever you want.
The inner machinations of their minds are an enigma
-Patrick Star
TB, MANY games have done this previously, quick save exits the game, when you load the save it deletes that save. it allows you to jump out of a game without losing your progress between checkpoints. In my opinion, this is really all you need.
To paraphrase a great line from a great movie:
"Forget it, TB. It's the Internet."
I agree. Someone who is/wants to be good at making anything isn't going to get up in arms because someone said that a particular part of what you did was bad.
I believe it was Burnie from Rooster Teeth that said something to the effect of "People are complaining that the end would resolve your choices, but what people don't realize is that the whole game is the ending." Very much simplifying and paraphrasing, but you get it. I don't entirely agree with that, but I think, to a degree, people do forget that fact.
I'm replaying ME1, and I do have to say, it bums me out a tad to know what my last decision will be, but it doesn't diminish the ride any less
Never thought I'd have to say it but.
Welcome to youtube.
Thanks for the dose doc.
What a pleasent day it has been, Diablo has been released on my birthday what an honour lol
The problem with a checkpoint system is that if you have to go take care of something important immediately or you need to leave for some reason and then come back to the game, say, a few hours or days later, all of your progress will be lost. It also forces the gamer to set aside tons of time to play because they don't know when the next checkpoint will be, and this is difficult for many people.
Having a quicksave function allows someone to quickly save their game and play it on their own time.
I accept that and thank you for your feedback and will look this guy up now.
this was the best mailbox yet.
jesus christ thank you for putting question times in description.
interesting thoughts as always,
always enjoying the mailbox
The problem I have with checkpoints is that they are often placed right before you would need them. It feels like "Oh, there's that little save simbol, better prepare for a boss right behind this door.".
Thank you for Question Timecodes TB :D
Max Payne 2 allowed you to quicksave 3 times per mission when doing it on hardest level. That was a nice way of making it harder.
I like the old JRPG system of saving. When you aren't in a dungeon save anywhere you damn well like but when you are in a dungeon you can only use save points and if you get in danger you have to teleport out or just hope you make it to the save point. Of course this doesn't work for every game but i always felt it worked pretty well as long as save points weren't to sparse.
On the note of quicksaves, another compromise that I know has been used in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (and possible other games) is having optional save points (effectively checkpoints, but not automatic) at certain places, but also the option to quicksave, with the drawback being that upon quicksaving, you are returned to the title screen, and once you load the game the quicksave is deleted, making the quicksave effectively a 'Pause' that lets you turn off the console.
Oh TB. No matter the question, it always leads back to Mass Effect 3. In every Mailbox.
I had a checkpoint of driving off a cliff, and i was stuck until i jumped out early enough LIKE A BOSS.
I agree limited quicksaves is the best solution, like the system used on Hitman games for example.
As someone who only played ME3 the reapers looked pretty terrifying. Huge killer robots from space coming to destroy all life in the universe every x centuries. Might just be me.
Sometimes you just dont want the answer but also a thorough explanation of the topic at hand. It could also be good to exchange ideas and listen from another persons perspective.
I was here like a hour ago, and some guy said "thank god for the video", someone replied "why are you thanking your made up friend, thank tb instead" And thats how it all started, glad to help.
Wow. I've never seen a comment on a video like this comment. This makes complete and total sense and is true. I'm surprised that you'd have the balls to say that, a lot of the time this would start a war in the comments based on religion. You awesome sir! :)
This might sound creepy, but i fucking love you for that mass effect bit :D
Thank you TB for doing these :)
more heroes gameplay ;O. now i want to buy one, i've never played the series before though, which game is considerably good for a beginner?
Oh man, I still remember the terrible checkpoint I got in Call of Duty 2 in the battle for Hill 400. Primary weapon had 3 bullets, secondary was empty, low on health and suddenly a mass of enemies spawns right on me. I was stuck on that checkpoint for about 40 minutes until I finally managed to slip out of the situation. I've hated the checkpoint systems from that point on.
I actually remember posting that somewhere but how he found it is beyond me.
My opinion on Quicksaving is that the game should probably close AFTER you quicksave, so you won't use it every 2 seconds, but when you actually need it.
I think quick saves should always be available to the player. It provides the most flexibility by giving the play the freedom to treat them however they want. Don't use them at all, spam them, treat them like checkpoints, whatever. I personally like being able to save anywhere/anytime because I might want to replay a cool level or look at some awesome scenery.
because some people don't understand that there is a time and place for everything. good point :P
"Cheers from Queensland" Hahah, did any other Aussies laugh at this.
What's the prob in pause menu saves? I don't have a problem going on my pause menu to save unless it's skyrim where it takes ages to get on to the save menu. Saving on that takes longer then some of the load screens
thx for the Question Timecodes :)
honest quality and entertainment value
Did The Hitman games not have a system of fewer quicksaves depending on the difficulty???
The fact that he said nobody cares rather than "I don't care" combined with the fact that shockwaveable clearly cares proves that he is wrong.
Giving you a choice is not "dumbing it down". You can choose to quicksave, you can choose not to quicksave.
No that sounds familiar, who else has said that recently... Oh yes, it was Total Biscuit, you know, the guy who's video we just watched! -_- If you're gonna watch his videos, pay attention to them. It's a valid point.
Checkpoints have been mostly outdated by auto saving, which is probably the same thing with just a different name
Considering EAWare came out and said that the Indoctrination Theory was pretty much just something fans came up with to console themselves, I'd have to say that the ending was a perfect example of Ball Dropping. Not in the pubescent sense, either. They said in a QA release a while back that the ending explanation DLC was going to consist of 0 game play, and was just going to show what your crew was doing, as well as how the various fleets and people would not starve to death.
It's interesting that you mention consoles lacking a button for quick-saving because Mass Effect 3 used the back button on the 360 for that purpose.
Didn't Sniper Elite v2 have limited quick saves or so? I think I heared it had limited options in that regard.
Thanks for the question time index.
Is there any possibility we can have a crappy-livestream-day with Heroes6? :P
It was announced to be free until 2014, I believe. Why the time limit is there is beyond me.
Yeah it was pretty useful especially in the first were the autosave were soo far away from each other.
Dang i was seriously thinking of applying there. What makes that school so terrible though?
The Steam forums with regards 'Revelations 2012' are a blast at the moment! Go check them out!
I always liked the quick-save in the Mass Effect series as it only allows you to quick-save out of combat.
In the console version of The Witcher 2 you can always save exept when you're in combat. It's comparable to quicksaving but it
only takes a few secs longer.
I really like this method and perhaps it works well in some other games.
"Not really interested in covering Day Z yet as the dev has expressed his wish that people wait until it's more feature-rich and complete" TB's answer on twitter.
the seting of revelations 2012 would work in a old-school doom-ish way. with some good artwork and neat gameplay, i'd probably be interested in playing it...
I play on consoles, and I still dearly love quicksaves.
I feel TB was kind of wrong to say it's not a quick save just because you have to go into the menu, its a quick save because you can save it where ever and when ever you want. Check points on the other hand save whenever you get to a certain point, so if you have to turn off the machine as it's time to do something (like go to work, for example) then you lose all your progression since it last saved.
At this point I'm starting to think that the apocalypse itself would be more popular than Revelations 2012.
It's like saying, 'if you haven't made a government for a country, your opinion doesn't really matter.'
Dude TB you're making everyone want to buy that game lol
An example of a saving feature done near perfectly has to be Dark Souls. You can go to a previous save point if you messed up but it works better than most RPGs and I hope it stays the same in the upcoming Pc-version.
my problem mostly is that videos restarts or *jump* backwards a bit.
and the loadingtime on videos are 5 times longer then ussual.
Failtube is returning..
I like games that don't have JUST quicksaves or JUST checkpoints, but both, because if you don't save often enough you lose hours sometimes of progress and that just crushes gamers
I dont know where Relevations on Steam is, but i havent found it.
It's not justifiable. In terms of economics it is sunk cost. Regardless of what you do you will never get that time/cost back.
I remember playing Halo 2 back in the day driving a Warthog through a checkpoint. The game saved right as I hit a rock, flipped the jeep and it crushed me. Then every time reloaded that checkpoint it brought me back right as I was about to get crushed again providing a series of constant squishy deaths. Fucking jeeps.
why does that revelations 2012 review that's being mentioned sounds very much like one of mine grammatically but they are apparently a professional review site........... how ?
Do we thumbs down if we have small one?
It's a joke, he should have typed : "Jesus Christ! Thank you for putting the question times in the description."
Where they buried the copies they could get in the desert? I don't think you can do that with DLC
So how about that local sports team?
i was writing a wall of text on the save system related question but then tb said excactly what i wanted to. very good
Yeah! And I love Stargate as well! Anything but Universe ofc...
I remember hiting a checkpoint in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, while there was a rocket near my face. Ouch... Had to restart a mission.
15:30 The "original" AvP (actually the second Rebellion-developed Alien vs Predator FPS) didn't have quick-saving at all until people complained about the game being too hard, and by that point the saving system was patched in. I haven't quite decided which version of the game I prefer, but I applaud Rebellion for actually thinking about the issue and deciding to add a limited amount of saves instead of just haphazardly throwing in unlimited time-travel post mortem like, say, Far Cry 2 on PC.
I've never had games where the checkpoints were too far apart, but then i'm used to difficult games.
never had that problem, pretty sure i'd backtrack if i really really needed to save. sides, battles that could kill you outright always had a save point nearby.
Quicksaves/save states are good for games like Skyrim. There's alot of bugs and your game can freeze on that game, and then there's stupid glitches like you get stuck in a rock. Being able to reload a save state is extremely helpful.
TB you have to make a `wtf is`on the day-z mod for ARMA 2. It will bring the next generation of zombie survival games. It is one of the best game concepts I've seen in a along time.
I completely agree on that. Thing is, this started by kid saying that games must be made so that it is easier to play, because he doesn't like challenge.
And I am very tired of bunch of "gamers" whining how that or another must be changed in games, because they don't like it. Hell, you don't like it - deal with it, or play something else. Don't force devs change their game to suit your likings.
Also you are first person this week to make sense in youtube comments when answering to my post. GJ.
On may the 16th mailbox why was League of legends playing in the background for this vid?
Thing is that it does by people who have dedicated their lives to studying and examining history.
Yay for Planetside 2 footage!
Thanks for putting the times in the comments?
I always watch everything in 360p. RUclips has bandwith issues too often anyways.
He said hes waiting on that one till its more finished. The developer said it wasn't ready for reviews yet.
lol, I came home for lunch break half an hour ago and checked the halibut feed, nothing new so I go watch some music vids instead, now mailbox is up and I got to go back to work :(
Ahh well, I shall enjoy later.
Almost all professional historians agree that The PantryRaider exists.
about what ending is he talking about around 6:45?
Time codes are back.
The Internet Gods are pleased.
... However after taking a look at the Revelations 2012 video... wow that looks bad. This is on steam?
Checkpoint problem? Listening to something like "Blackbird, we are heavily outnumbered! Where are you?!" a bazillion times on vet.
You didn't touch upon the fact that check points can be too close together. That can be a problem.
Far as I can tell The "Friends and Family" is 70% of the Dev team. I honestly don't think barely anyone outside of the Dev. team played this game before it was released.
I read their bios on their website. They graduated from DeVry. In Engineering.
Jesus was a historical figure. Whether he was the Messiah or not, that remains a question of faith, but it's undeniable that he existed.
is this game that youre playing a new heros of might and magic ?
So what you're saying is, we should all buy Revelations 2012?
ah thanks. will give it a shot