It actually put me off this time - doesn't Seth usually say: 'Hello Internet, Seth Skorkowsky here and today we'll be talking about...' I think I missed the 'here'. Its too much different Seth! Make it stop!! :-)
That last sketch is hilarious and shows how much the three care about each other. True bros watch each other's backs, even when they go to the bathroom.
whenever someone says to me "never split the party" I just think back on every moment in every choice driven video game ever that had me thinking "gee, I really wish I could split the party right now and try to do both of these things insead of being arbitrarily forced to pick one"
@@Martionize ironically ME2' is my go to example for this premise. Specifically Zaeed's loyalty mission. Let me hop the railing to save the civies while Zaeed and whoever else I brought run ahead after Vido Virmire is.... different.
Re:scheduling a rendezvous. At military school they taught us GOTWA. Going: where you are going. Others: who you are taking with you. Time: how long you'll be gone. What: what to do if you don't come back. Actions: if they know for sure you're engaged or if they get engaged themselves. It works for me when roleplaying and helps me when I get my players to do it.
This. Can't even express how dumb this idea is. "Oh yeah Bob, I know you have a family, a full-time job and can only accomodate this Thursday evening game, but we've decided to do a long-term party split. To be a good GM, you're going to have to rearrange the rest of your life and flip on those "On Demand" creative juices. Don't do that and you're a BAD GM." That level of self-entitlement boggles the mind.
D&D was all prepared for this eventuality. If someone is determined to wreck your game, just pound them with boring random encounters until they get with the program or die.
I did this recently. I mostly seperated the planned game session where I just told my players to go watch some netflix after an hour or so and I'd text them if input was required (the groups kept in touch using sending -_-). When they whined, I just told them it was their idea to split up, what did you expect? I'm quite sure they won't think of splitting up long term any time soon... Anyways, I set the groups up in 2 different camps and both groups are convinced they are doing the right thing. So now there is a pvp situation going on... pretty interesting (but chaotic)
Seth, just want to say, i love your use of the RUclips Chapters feature. Even when RUclips forgets where I am your chapters help me go right back to where I was in the video. You use them so well so i just had to shout you out for using it
@@marcar9marcar972 It usually works, but there have been several times where their Commoner Carriage Driver has died horrible trying to keep up with the PCs. Though it is entertaining to watch.
I once played with a really old group that was so obsessed with not splitting the party they literally did not think you should split up in regular towns full of patrol guards. Nobody should sleep in separate rooms, and that image of 4 people sitting in the same bathtub was almost a reality to them.
My (totally unwarranted) two cents; when the party is split is a great time for bathroom breaks and refreshments for the non-active players! Plus they can use that time to do character sheet cleanup, note taking, and talking among their own side about what they plan to do next. Just make sure to tell your players that all this is ok. And maybe to grab the DM a beer while they are free! Great video with solid advice all around!
Feels so good when Seth suggests you handle a situation in a certain way when that IS the way you already handled it. Also, Seth is all about the friends around the table; love that. Great video.
Idea for when lone or paired characters meet overwhelming odds: give them an easier encounter, but hint that if they stick around they will be overwhelmed. If they still decide to stay, *then* spring the rest of the encounter on them.
One of the most irritating things for me was when a large group I was playing in (I'm talking 8 players) refused to let us even do just brief scouting missions because "That would be splitting the Party!" and it basically meant that half the group that was actually good at Stealth basically didn't get to use it except in combat. It got so bad that it started circulating into another group where one of the new players heard the first spouting it off so much, they literally tried following my character to an older woman's house, in the middle of a peaceful town because "Don't split the party." And I retorted with "Are you gonna follow me into the bathroom on the off-chance a sewer gator bursts out of the toilet?" So that deleted Skit really hit home on a personal level, especially as a GM lol
It was probably shaped by my love of Golden Age and Silver Age comic book superteams, but I always tried to steer the party to split up into co plimentary groups of 2 (3 max) to tackle things (and reunite for the endgame). When it worked out, it was great, like a comic come to life. When it was me as a player and the DM/GM wasn't prepared for it, many did it fall apart gloriously.
Oh that last part was hilarious. I loved it. 😆 I have also never had a problem with parties splitting up in most of my games. It happened a few times in my Alien game recently. Also happens all the time in Vampire. I also recently ran Dune and the whole session was separate groups working towards the same thing but in different ways. We have all had a blast in all these games and nobody was worried about not splitting the party because of course we did and it worked perfectly.
11:20 bingo! We've been having fun with dramatic cuts with the split party; the ax goes up and..., you see waiting just beyond the door..., just then you hear behind you... then cut. Limited split party play has been working well with our group. They are a good bunch, and understand when I truncate the narration, and move things along for solo player actions. I sometimes tease the party, say by having one party overhear an NPC discussing the trap the the other part of the group is walking into. There had been some players that had wanted to take center stage and hold it, but they were allowed to go their own ways years ago. PS 17:06 You are right, what is it with Youtude "Experts" telling refs "the right way to play." any part of a game. Your method of sharing insights, and offering suggestions is greatly appreciated.
It works EXTREMELY well with horror games. The players are (usually) on edge already because they know they are playing a horror game and then you turn the vice even harder. Also, that overhearing a trap is just brilliant.
Some of my best sessions I've run are situations were the players are separated and they have to be overly cautious to not accidentally shoot their own friends. Builds the tension because they can't just go trigger happy. Have used this in modern settings, fantasy, and mechwarrior. Every time it is memorable and long talked about by the players.
I mostly run horror games so I, personally, love it when the party splits up, whether it's to cover more ground for research or in a dangerous situation. Your advice on that is great, though I usually don't use a stopwatch to give each group exactly the same time, usually trying to keep my jumps back and forth to a minute or three. The only time we've had long term splits is when people can't make game sessions, sometimes multiple ones. I usually use one-on-one games to catch up the other player when they plan to come back and before they reunite with the party (if they do). I usually make sure they can return with some new information for the group as well, perhaps having had some encounter that revealed some secret they can bring back to help the others. I prefer splitting the party, especially when it makes sense for the story. It can make for some really memorable moments as well. Love the closing skit. Now I want to use a cannibal clown in one of my games.
I've always found that splitting the party for more than a handful of minutes can lead to boredom of the players that are not involved I keep it brief if it has to be.
Hearing all of these pieces of advice from Seth really gets my mind going for some West Marches style gaming, especially when he was talking about long-term splits. While I may not do a full-on split campaign for a party, I would happily set things up where every few sessions between big adventures, I’d have something for one or two players that can be done in one to three sessions. This way, everyone gets to have those long strings of being together and having epic quests, and players and characters can still have very intimate personal journeys that can be discovered by the rest of the party when they get back together.
I've almost never split the party, but most of my group games are character based so would prevent our primary source of fun being playing our characters off each other
Quite the opposite. If there are to be interesting dynamics between characters in the party (intrigue, trust issues etc) everybody always knowing what everybody else is doing would just make the dynamics pointless.
@@robertchmielecki2580 Think of some of the best character based TV shows, many great episodes revolve around unexpected character groupings, or suddenly removing a key member to see how it changes the group dynamic.
In my group, we split the party so often, we practically have a standard pairing off we follow for our Delta Green game. It's yet to actually be a problem.
At least for me I think splitting the party works out well if there is a good reason to split and you rapidly swap between the two like in CoC while one group raids someone’s home while the other group is distracting is distracting the homeowner at the bar
Honestly dude, I didn't think the skit was too long or overly gross. Glad you included it. Totally agree on splitting the party, sometimes it's the right call, but spotlight balance is important.
Was just about to complain about the lack of Jack or the gang when you gave us that, er, banger of an outro! (Also, as a GM usually gming more story/character-focused than plot-focused adventures who _wants_ the players to occasionally wander off and do their own thing, both for immersion and bc it just makes more sense, I will totally use the "a party sticks to gether, even in the face of carny dog diarrhea" line to remind my players every now and then, how weird "never splitting the party" would be in real life.)
Thanks for covering this on the meta too. An advice for everyone who wants to play a ttrpg online on a platform like roll20: the effect that other feel like the game runs without them and that they don't have something to do if they are not in the current active party "shard" is much more extreme. Have this in mind and take care. In my youth i had a group of at least 7 people (yes an insane size) often even more and there splitting was never a problem. The other players were quite good at rollplaying without the gamemasters attention with the other players momentarily not in the game focus.
One of the games I wanted to run as a GM was a party-less game where each player character is in a different location (in a different genre) like in War and Peace. Each PC adds to the narrative as a whole.
Good to see you again. I'll add a few random thoughts: 1) Love the skit. I really look forward to your skits. When it comes to being a multiply split personality, others try, but you succeed... marvelously. 2) Amazing how many people think they have the right to define how somebody else should act. Of course you "should" double up your time as a GM and drop something else out of your life. 3) Our group commonly has a board game, or two, running in the background because our usual GM is a great one for back room one-on-one time. It works. 4) True. A major reason for the game in the first place is friends getting together. Guys especially seem to need a reason, something specific to be doing, to justify a get-together. Heaven forbid that we just have a gab fest.
Spot on regarding long term party separation, Seth. If a party feels like they need to split up like that it kinda kills the campaign. As a GM I only have the time to run one campaign and if my players decide to split long term the smaller group is, sadly, going to stop playing with me. I'm currently standing up a Call of Cthulhu campaign and I've planned for (very) occasional separate adventures for people but, doggone it, permanent party breakups would kill that campaign and I just don't see myself doing it. Thanks for another great video!
2 stories. First: We're planning a raid on a fortified tower to rescue an important plot NPC. Our ninja sneaks in alone to scout the place out and thin the guards. All us not subtle types are gathered in the alley across the road to rush in and save him when he gets over his head. Only he doesn't get over his head. Between brilliant choices and hot rolls, he is just tearing through this place. He finds the location of the NPC, makes his way to the room and is ready to take out the garrison commander with a heavily poisoned ambush. We're only spectating, but we're riveted by the close calls, epic successes and inspired planning going on. He stops, and tells us he feels bad that he's hogging the spotlight and he'll wait for us to rush in so we can participate in the boss fight. We all respond Nah dude, you've been doing so well just go for it! So he drops the boss in one round, escapes with the NPC undetected and the enemy has no idea who was behind it. One of our most memorable sessions, and only one of us actually played. Second story: Running a two player game and one player was going overseas for 3 months. I ran the remaining player through a 4 session arc that ended with their organization losing track of them. Second player comes back home, and his character gets the "our agent went missing, find out what happened" mission. This perfectly coincides with first player being weekendless for about a month, so I could get second player caught up. He gets to stumble across clues left by the first character and experience the aftermath of some of the previous choices. Eventually he catches up and then both players got to play out the end of the arc together.
I really liked the idea of splitting the party into two campaigns Lord of the Rings-style and had never heard about that before seeing your video. To keep the _players_ together (as opposed to the characters who do split), I would let them create backup characters to "fill" the two halves of the party. If the party reunites, some characters will have to be retired (maybe killed, if players are okay with character death). This might be a nice way to do "sidequests" that happen simultaneously and open a way to try out new characters for players who want to swap. Might propose this to my GM.
Me and my friends play CoC on twitch. The way we tend to handle splitting the party is to focus on the sub-group that we determine will take less time to do what they were doing.
Thank you Seth! This video and the "How to run a Horror Game" has both helped me with this problem. Just last saturday the group split up and they were both on a gigantic boat that they all tried to stop, while I had planned for them to have to split and choose where to go some of the players really did not like that they split up, they argued for a long time both during and after the session about it. I did try my best to use the tips on jump-cuts from your Horror video, making it so that if one group had just had a long time talking and were about to get into combat, I switched to the other, likewise if they had just had a long combat and wanted to do something else, I made another switch. Great videos, fair and square!
5:25 I once played a Final Fantasy style dragoon in a mythic Pathfinder game that was both a heavy fighter and a stealthy scout. That was a lot of fun.
Really great advice here! I've seen all of that, and done most of it myself, for good and ill. Sometimes splitting up works, and sometimes it doesn't. Be well and stay safe!
I have the feeling, that if it was me GM-ing that, I would stress the players: "You can barely hold it any longer!" "Despite all your efforts to hold back, your body does what it needs to do..."
Lol my campaign has involved a split party for over a month now due to our characters getting lost in a new city. My character's been in prison under accusations of people trafficking so have needed to plead my case alone while the rest of the party are together. It's quite the task ensuring that everyone gets enough role playing time but we make it work. Regardless, great video as usual Seth, your content never misses!
Great video!! The sketch in particular was hilarious (specially since I actualle HAVE HAD groups do something very similar to that!). I am currently running a campaign in which each character has a very particular and individual agenda; where they have spent like 50% of their play time, each on their own; and where one player joined in on the third session, and whose character is not only in a different place than the rest of the party, he is even in a different time. With his character currently having an adventure that is taking place about a month before the actual campaign starts. Even with one other character in the party that is now existing in both times, as he is both on the current adventure as a party member, and on the "past" adventure with this other character that started later in the game, kind of in a flashback style. It is a very enjoyable mess, but it required a LOT of coordination between players, and pretty much every single point you bring up here has come up. Between the possibility of characters riding off on their own for good, players waiting on their turns and having to adjust their expectations accordingly, a lot of spectator mode playing, etc. Luckly, we have managed to make it work, but your video has helped me do a good and thorough review of all the dangers and pitfalls that exist in having a split party.
18:00 I kinda did this. I have 3 players, and we a 1-2 session thing with one of the players characters, but the other players got to play an NPC in the other players session.
Hello Seth, great video as usual, but I'd like to offer a few notes as a DM who has run long term party splits and simultaneous campaigns. So a long term split party in my opinion, is best for small groups, 3 to 4 players. I actually have an example that isn't mine but covers the idea very well. Over on the Dingo Doodles channel the story of the Fools Gold campaign has reached the point where a long term split has occurred. Three players, a few NPCs, each player is currently on their own, with limited contact to the others. It was explained that this was accomplished with everyone playing together, and taking turns every 15 minutes or so. I have done the same in past games, in one, Rifts RPG from Palladium Books. One PC, a Demigod (character class), went undercover in Atlantis to contact the rebels by being "captured" by a slaver party. However unlucky dice saw his partner thrown through a dimensional portal (seriously, it's a random encounter possibility in that game), it took him 2 years in game time to get back home, but he came back with a starship so there's that (he went to Robotech universe, game made by same company, and all their games use the same system). The Demigod meanwhile spent those 2 years as a Gladiator, unbeaten, he actually fought his way free before his friend got home. Both players were brothers, so it went very smooth, and actually established a persistent game world I used for every campaign I ran in Rifts for over 10 years. That brings me to, running two seperate but connected games. In this case it wasn't actually the party splitting, I had 2 groups of 4 players, they were unable to all gather on one night, so I ran both groups in the same world, and on their own they ended up working for opposite sides. I kept each party's "effects" in both games, so on several occassions one party or the other would find the other's handiwork. Maybe party A gets hired by patron A to loot tomb X. However two weeks ago Party B got hired by patron B to loot tomb X and they already completed the mission. Small side note, to allieviate player irritation I would set up an alternate encounter that would happen after the party found they had been beaten to the punch, which would be balanced (in terms of XP/treasure) to what the other party had achieved (in rough terms, I didn't lock it to they got x you get x). I eventually managed to schedule a night when everyone could make it and we had a huge battle between the now high level parties, that ended in friendship, and the sudden deaths of Patrons A & B (Demons lol). My players did know what was going on, in general, that there was another party of players in the world, and that mattered, but they had to figure out that the other PCs were their primary antagonists on their own.
Thanks for including the skit at the end. It wasn't too gross to me but I could see why you split it off just in case. I just love the absurd levels of "don't split the party" in it though!
Splitting a party can be fun, but precisely as you said, small bits and CUT, another one. And yes, I did the same with the behind the close doors scene, but yes once again, it is not worth it. Personaly, I learned a lot from how to do a split party from mr. Rob, handling the group of feral cats thatare his players group in the beginning of VLDL DnD, before the group got together. Running two separate campaigns is mostly no-no for me, for various reasons and the main is time. Anyway, love your videos, you are great, please continue doing what you are doing.
Oh, as a DM/GM I always recommend the group split up.... some of the most hilariously brutal or magnificently heroic stories. Okay, mostly hilariously brutal deaths but still good stories! Great video! The end was AWESOME! Too.Damn.Funny.
In a long-term campaign I had an arc where the group ended up split into two groups. I had the players make second characters and ran a couple of alternating sessions as the groups eventually found each other. They picked who to keep using and who was an NPC/backup character when the story was done. It was entertaining seeing them explore new viewpoints in the world and get to keep things fresh with some alternate mechanics than what they were used to.
My recommendation for long-term splits would be to do 1-2 sessions with the splitoffs to have a rundown of what they are experiencing (and maybe write some notes about other stuff they want to do and aks the GM for permission to incorporate that as canon), and until they come back they play with the main party as new (temporary) characters or familiar NPCs. This way both sides get their way and the returning PCs have a story or two to tell. That skit was hilarious. :D
This is one of the convenient things about PBEM games, it makes party splits a great deal easier to manage. In my current PBEM Traveller campaign the party is split with half running off to kill the mounts belonging to a group of bandits, while the other half continues to ride point for the merchant caravan. (Primative area of the planet)
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Nothing brings a smile to your face like a good ol’ “hello internet, Seth Skoooorkowsky”
I personally would write it as "Seth Skorrrrkowsky."
So agreed
Skooor...Skooooorkow.....
Scorecowski
Boom! easier to remember
I was thinking exactly the same
It actually put me off this time - doesn't Seth usually say: 'Hello Internet, Seth Skorkowsky here and today we'll be talking about...' I think I missed the 'here'. Its too much different Seth! Make it stop!! :-)
"We're a party, and a party sticks together, even in the face of carnie-dog diarrhea!" 😂🤣😂🤣
Q: How many CoC investigators does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: All of them; you never split the party!
I need this on a tee shirt!
It was sooooo funny
James Rolfe moment
That last sketch is hilarious and shows how much the three care about each other.
True bros watch each other's backs, even when they go to the bathroom.
Only to a point; "I'm not going to watch you go to the bathroom...again" !
This is why girls always go to the bathroom together
It's actually really genre savvy of them to do that. The guy who goes to the bathroom always gets killed by the monster.
Flukeman!
@@AnEnemySpy456 Yeah, there just might be a Neo-otyugh below the seat...just waiting...
ᗒʖᗕ
That skit was hysterical. Glad you included it.
whenever someone says to me "never split the party" I just think back on every moment in every choice driven video game ever that had me thinking "gee, I really wish I could split the party right now and try to do both of these things insead of being arbitrarily forced to pick one"
Well that does happen in ME1.....
@@Martionize ironically ME2' is my go to example for this premise. Specifically Zaeed's loyalty mission.
Let me hop the railing to save the civies while Zaeed and whoever else I brought run ahead after Vido
Virmire is.... different.
That's one of the reasons why Divinity 2 is the best split screen game for me and my wife. It manages players going their own ways excellently.
Re:scheduling a rendezvous. At military school they taught us GOTWA.
Going: where you are going.
Others: who you are taking with you.
Time: how long you'll be gone.
What: what to do if you don't come back.
Actions: if they know for sure you're engaged or if they get engaged themselves.
It works for me when roleplaying and helps me when I get my players to do it.
"A good game master runs two campaigns if the party splits up." Clearly that is a person who has never run a campaign of any game before
Clearly that's someone who has only been a player 🤣
Clearly that guy has never anything else to do but make and run campaigns
This. Can't even express how dumb this idea is.
"Oh yeah Bob, I know you have a family, a full-time job and can only accomodate this Thursday evening game, but we've decided to do a long-term party split. To be a good GM, you're going to have to rearrange the rest of your life and flip on those "On Demand" creative juices. Don't do that and you're a BAD GM."
That level of self-entitlement boggles the mind.
D&D was all prepared for this eventuality. If someone is determined to wreck your game, just pound them with boring random encounters until they get with the program or die.
I did this recently. I mostly seperated the planned game session where I just told my players to go watch some netflix after an hour or so and I'd text them if input was required (the groups kept in touch using sending -_-). When they whined, I just told them it was their idea to split up, what did you expect? I'm quite sure they won't think of splitting up long term any time soon...
Anyways, I set the groups up in 2 different camps and both groups are convinced they are doing the right thing. So now there is a pvp situation going on... pretty interesting (but chaotic)
Honestly the skit made me laugh out loud
Its a very familiar case of "maximum overthink".
I was laughing so hard in my office.
That last skit was amazing. Hearing the plan laid out while the dm is grossed out was a perfect finisher. Great video as always.
Seth, just want to say, i love your use of the RUclips Chapters feature. Even when RUclips forgets where I am your chapters help me go right back to where I was in the video. You use them so well so i just had to shout you out for using it
I made it almost to the end of the video and thought, "No skit? That's disappointing." And then I made it to the sketch part and I was so happy.
Am glad I didn't miss the skit at the end!
I glad it was put on the end with a warning. Beginning the video with that would have been...weird.
My groups split the party all the time so I often have the other players play nearby NPC'S in Combat.
Good idea
@@marcar9marcar972 It usually works, but there have been several times where their Commoner Carriage Driver has died horrible trying to keep up with the PCs. Though it is entertaining to watch.
Not a bad trick if you don't want to stop them from splitting up.
"A party sticks together, even in the face of carnie dog diarrhea." Love it.
I like that the option of a strategic retreat when faced with unexpectedly steep odds is brought up. Makes for fewer TPKs
I stayed for the Deleted Intro and I regret nothing.
That last skit alone was worth the 20 minute wait.
Always brightens my day to see a new Seth Skorkowsky video.
I once played with a really old group that was so obsessed with not splitting the party they literally did not think you should split up in regular towns full of patrol guards. Nobody should sleep in separate rooms, and that image of 4 people sitting in the same bathtub was almost a reality to them.
My (totally unwarranted) two cents; when the party is split is a great time for bathroom breaks and refreshments for the non-active players! Plus they can use that time to do character sheet cleanup, note taking, and talking among their own side about what they plan to do next. Just make sure to tell your players that all this is ok. And maybe to grab the DM a beer while they are free!
Great video with solid advice all around!
Feels so good when Seth suggests you handle a situation in a certain way when that IS the way you already handled it. Also, Seth is all about the friends around the table; love that. Great video.
Idea for when lone or paired characters meet overwhelming odds: give them an easier encounter, but hint that if they stick around they will be overwhelmed. If they still decide to stay, *then* spring the rest of the encounter on them.
One of the most irritating things for me was when a large group I was playing in (I'm talking 8 players) refused to let us even do just brief scouting missions because "That would be splitting the Party!" and it basically meant that half the group that was actually good at Stealth basically didn't get to use it except in combat.
It got so bad that it started circulating into another group where one of the new players heard the first spouting it off so much, they literally tried following my character to an older woman's house, in the middle of a peaceful town because "Don't split the party." And I retorted with "Are you gonna follow me into the bathroom on the off-chance a sewer gator bursts out of the toilet?"
So that deleted Skit really hit home on a personal level, especially as a GM lol
The skit at the end was pure gold. ^^
It was probably shaped by my love of Golden Age and Silver Age comic book superteams, but I always tried to steer the party to split up into co plimentary groups of 2 (3 max) to tackle things (and reunite for the endgame). When it worked out, it was great, like a comic come to life. When it was me as a player and the DM/GM wasn't prepared for it, many did it fall apart gloriously.
Please tell me the Charlton Heston pic as Moses was foreshadowing to a time when Seth will play Moses in a skit!!
Split the party or part the Red Sea?
Thank you for not completely cutting The Gang intro out of this. They deserved their time in the spotlight.
Oh that last part was hilarious. I loved it. 😆 I have also never had a problem with parties splitting up in most of my games. It happened a few times in my Alien game recently. Also happens all the time in Vampire. I also recently ran Dune and the whole session was separate groups working towards the same thing but in different ways. We have all had a blast in all these games and nobody was worried about not splitting the party because of course we did and it worked perfectly.
That Skit was fantastic. i am so glad Seth added it
The opening ( closing?) sketch was brilliant !
11:20 bingo! We've been having fun with dramatic cuts with the split party; the ax goes up and..., you see waiting just beyond the door..., just then you hear behind you... then cut.
Limited split party play has been working well with our group. They are a good bunch, and understand when I truncate the narration, and move things along for solo player actions. I sometimes tease the party, say by having one party overhear an NPC discussing the trap the the other part of the group is walking into. There had been some players that had wanted to take center stage and hold it, but they were allowed to go their own ways years ago.
PS 17:06 You are right, what is it with Youtude "Experts" telling refs "the right way to play." any part of a game. Your method of sharing insights, and offering suggestions is greatly appreciated.
It works EXTREMELY well with horror games. The players are (usually) on edge already because they know they are playing a horror game and then you turn the vice even harder.
Also, that overhearing a trap is just brilliant.
that skit was so funny, glad you didn't cut it from the video
"Now we need to make sure we stay together....Ok let's split up." - Dark and Stormy Night'
That skit reminded me of "The Moving Finger." I'm sure it looks goofy today, but it freaked me out as a kid.
Some of my best sessions I've run are situations were the players are separated and they have to be overly cautious to not accidentally shoot their own friends. Builds the tension because they can't just go trigger happy. Have used this in modern settings, fantasy, and mechwarrior. Every time it is memorable and long talked about by the players.
I mostly run horror games so I, personally, love it when the party splits up, whether it's to cover more ground for research or in a dangerous situation. Your advice on that is great, though I usually don't use a stopwatch to give each group exactly the same time, usually trying to keep my jumps back and forth to a minute or three.
The only time we've had long term splits is when people can't make game sessions, sometimes multiple ones. I usually use one-on-one games to catch up the other player when they plan to come back and before they reunite with the party (if they do). I usually make sure they can return with some new information for the group as well, perhaps having had some encounter that revealed some secret they can bring back to help the others.
I prefer splitting the party, especially when it makes sense for the story. It can make for some really memorable moments as well.
Love the closing skit. Now I want to use a cannibal clown in one of my games.
I've always found that splitting the party for more than a handful of minutes can lead to boredom of the players that are not involved I keep it brief if it has to be.
I'll have to remember these tips as a player as well. Should smooth over some of those split-ups.
Hearing all of these pieces of advice from Seth really gets my mind going for some West Marches style gaming, especially when he was talking about long-term splits. While I may not do a full-on split campaign for a party, I would happily set things up where every few sessions between big adventures, I’d have something for one or two players that can be done in one to three sessions. This way, everyone gets to have those long strings of being together and having epic quests, and players and characters can still have very intimate personal journeys that can be discovered by the rest of the party when they get back together.
I've almost never split the party, but most of my group games are character based so would prevent our primary source of fun being playing our characters off each other
And that’s a good reason not to split
Quite the opposite. If there are to be interesting dynamics between characters in the party (intrigue, trust issues etc) everybody always knowing what everybody else is doing would just make the dynamics pointless.
@@robertchmielecki2580 Think of some of the best character based TV shows, many great episodes revolve around unexpected character groupings, or suddenly removing a key member to see how it changes the group dynamic.
In my group, we split the party so often, we practically have a standard pairing off we follow for our Delta Green game. It's yet to actually be a problem.
"I'll watch you poop."
Never thought I'd heard those words on a Seth Skorkowsky video, lol.
But yeah, now *that* is friendship! ;-)
At least for me I think splitting the party works out well if there is a good reason to split and you rapidly swap between the two like in CoC while one group raids someone’s home while the other group is distracting is distracting the homeowner at the bar
Honestly dude, I didn't think the skit was too long or overly gross. Glad you included it.
Totally agree on splitting the party, sometimes it's the right call, but spotlight balance is important.
Was just about to complain about the lack of Jack or the gang when you gave us that, er, banger of an outro! (Also, as a GM usually gming more story/character-focused than plot-focused adventures who _wants_ the players to occasionally wander off and do their own thing, both for immersion and bc it just makes more sense, I will totally use the "a party sticks to gether, even in the face of carny dog diarrhea" line to remind my players every now and then, how weird "never splitting the party" would be in real life.)
As per usual, amazing content and delivery.
I am elated you tackled this, more GMs and players should know about how effective this can be when done right.
Putting the skit at the end was a great idea as it hammers all the points you made throughout the video a lot better. Thanks for the great content.
The skits are one of the best bits of the video!! Please never take them away!! XD
Thanks for covering this on the meta too. An advice for everyone who wants to play a ttrpg online on a platform like roll20: the effect that other feel like the game runs without them and that they don't have something to do if they are not in the current active party "shard" is much more extreme. Have this in mind and take care.
In my youth i had a group of at least 7 people (yes an insane size) often even more and there splitting was never a problem. The other players were quite good at rollplaying without the gamemasters attention with the other players momentarily not in the game focus.
I understand your reasons for not putting that skit in the beginning, but man was it hilarious.
One of the games I wanted to run as a GM was a party-less game where each player character is in a different location (in a different genre) like in War and Peace. Each PC adds to the narrative as a whole.
Good to see you again. I'll add a few random thoughts:
1) Love the skit. I really look forward to your skits. When it comes to being a multiply split personality, others try, but you succeed... marvelously.
2) Amazing how many people think they have the right to define how somebody else should act. Of course you "should" double up your time as a GM and drop something else out of your life.
3) Our group commonly has a board game, or two, running in the background because our usual GM is a great one for back room one-on-one time. It works.
4) True. A major reason for the game in the first place is friends getting together. Guys especially seem to need a reason, something specific to be doing, to justify a get-together. Heaven forbid that we just have a gab fest.
Spot on regarding long term party separation, Seth.
If a party feels like they need to split up like that it kinda kills the campaign. As a GM I only have the time to run one campaign and if my players decide to split long term the smaller group is, sadly, going to stop playing with me. I'm currently standing up a Call of Cthulhu campaign and I've planned for (very) occasional separate adventures for people but, doggone it, permanent party breakups would kill that campaign and I just don't see myself doing it.
Thanks for another great video!
That outro is absolutely hilarious. Thank you.
"Don't die alone and stupid."
-Ancient Pennsic Advice
2 stories. First: We're planning a raid on a fortified tower to rescue an important plot NPC. Our ninja sneaks in alone to scout the place out and thin the guards. All us not subtle types are gathered in the alley across the road to rush in and save him when he gets over his head. Only he doesn't get over his head. Between brilliant choices and hot rolls, he is just tearing through this place. He finds the location of the NPC, makes his way to the room and is ready to take out the garrison commander with a heavily poisoned ambush. We're only spectating, but we're riveted by the close calls, epic successes and inspired planning going on. He stops, and tells us he feels bad that he's hogging the spotlight and he'll wait for us to rush in so we can participate in the boss fight. We all respond Nah dude, you've been doing so well just go for it! So he drops the boss in one round, escapes with the NPC undetected and the enemy has no idea who was behind it. One of our most memorable sessions, and only one of us actually played.
Second story: Running a two player game and one player was going overseas for 3 months. I ran the remaining player through a 4 session arc that ended with their organization losing track of them. Second player comes back home, and his character gets the "our agent went missing, find out what happened" mission. This perfectly coincides with first player being weekendless for about a month, so I could get second player caught up. He gets to stumble across clues left by the first character and experience the aftermath of some of the previous choices. Eventually he catches up and then both players got to play out the end of the arc together.
Glad you didn't delete the skit - and I think it worked better afterwards too! Win win!
Thanks for including the skit and not cutting it all together. Very funny stuff.
The skits just keep getting better!
That skit was pure gold, gave me a very hearty laugh.
I really liked the idea of splitting the party into two campaigns Lord of the Rings-style and had never heard about that before seeing your video. To keep the _players_ together (as opposed to the characters who do split), I would let them create backup characters to "fill" the two halves of the party. If the party reunites, some characters will have to be retired (maybe killed, if players are okay with character death). This might be a nice way to do "sidequests" that happen simultaneously and open a way to try out new characters for players who want to swap.
Might propose this to my GM.
Me and my friends play CoC on twitch. The way we tend to handle splitting the party is to focus on the sub-group that we determine will take less time to do what they were doing.
Thank you Seth! This video and the "How to run a Horror Game" has both helped me with this problem. Just last saturday the group split up and they were both on a gigantic boat that they all tried to stop, while I had planned for them to have to split and choose where to go some of the players really did not like that they split up, they argued for a long time both during and after the session about it.
I did try my best to use the tips on jump-cuts from your Horror video, making it so that if one group had just had a long time talking and were about to get into combat, I switched to the other, likewise if they had just had a long combat and wanted to do something else, I made another switch. Great videos, fair and square!
5:25 I once played a Final Fantasy style dragoon in a mythic Pathfinder game that was both a heavy fighter and a stealthy scout. That was a lot of fun.
Really great advice here! I've seen all of that, and done most of it myself, for good and ill. Sometimes splitting up works, and sometimes it doesn't. Be well and stay safe!
that was a good skit, thank you for leaving it in.
Loved the extended intro at the end.
I'm glad I stuck around to the end!
I can completely see my group having that conversation.
I have the feeling, that if it was me GM-ing that, I would stress the players:
"You can barely hold it any longer!"
"Despite all your efforts to hold back, your body does what it needs to do..."
I absolutely loved the skit at the end! That made all of the great advice even greater.
Good to see and hear you again Seth!!!
I love your skits man, most skits in the internet are cringy but yours are pure gold lmao
I actually really like that skit at the end. Totally made your point
Dude, your videos are always funny, but the end sketch genuinely made me laugh out loud. I appreciate the effort you put into entertaining us.
Lol my campaign has involved a split party for over a month now due to our characters getting lost in a new city. My character's been in prison under accusations of people trafficking so have needed to plead my case alone while the rest of the party are together. It's quite the task ensuring that everyone gets enough role playing time but we make it work.
Regardless, great video as usual Seth, your content never misses!
Great video!!
The sketch in particular was hilarious (specially since I actualle HAVE HAD groups do something very similar to that!).
I am currently running a campaign in which each character has a very particular and individual agenda; where they have spent like 50% of their play time, each on their own; and where one player joined in on the third session, and whose character is not only in a different place than the rest of the party, he is even in a different time. With his character currently having an adventure that is taking place about a month before the actual campaign starts. Even with one other character in the party that is now existing in both times, as he is both on the current adventure as a party member, and on the "past" adventure with this other character that started later in the game, kind of in a flashback style.
It is a very enjoyable mess, but it required a LOT of coordination between players, and pretty much every single point you bring up here has come up. Between the possibility of characters riding off on their own for good, players waiting on their turns and having to adjust their expectations accordingly, a lot of spectator mode playing, etc.
Luckly, we have managed to make it work, but your video has helped me do a good and thorough review of all the dangers and pitfalls that exist in having a split party.
Wow Seth, that was my face too when they were laying out the poop observation survival strategy!
That intro was great, glad you still uploaded it
The gross-out skit was hilarious.
18:00
I kinda did this. I have 3 players, and we a 1-2 session thing with one of the players characters, but the other players got to play an NPC in the other players session.
Hello Seth, great video as usual, but I'd like to offer a few notes as a DM who has run long term party splits and simultaneous campaigns.
So a long term split party in my opinion, is best for small groups, 3 to 4 players. I actually have an example that isn't mine but covers the idea very well. Over on the Dingo Doodles channel the story of the Fools Gold campaign has reached the point where a long term split has occurred. Three players, a few NPCs, each player is currently on their own, with limited contact to the others. It was explained that this was accomplished with everyone playing together, and taking turns every 15 minutes or so. I have done the same in past games, in one, Rifts RPG from Palladium Books. One PC, a Demigod (character class), went undercover in Atlantis to contact the rebels by being "captured" by a slaver party. However unlucky dice saw his partner thrown through a dimensional portal (seriously, it's a random encounter possibility in that game), it took him 2 years in game time to get back home, but he came back with a starship so there's that (he went to Robotech universe, game made by same company, and all their games use the same system). The Demigod meanwhile spent those 2 years as a Gladiator, unbeaten, he actually fought his way free before his friend got home. Both players were brothers, so it went very smooth, and actually established a persistent game world I used for every campaign I ran in Rifts for over 10 years.
That brings me to, running two seperate but connected games. In this case it wasn't actually the party splitting, I had 2 groups of 4 players, they were unable to all gather on one night, so I ran both groups in the same world, and on their own they ended up working for opposite sides. I kept each party's "effects" in both games, so on several occassions one party or the other would find the other's handiwork. Maybe party A gets hired by patron A to loot tomb X. However two weeks ago Party B got hired by patron B to loot tomb X and they already completed the mission. Small side note, to allieviate player irritation I would set up an alternate encounter that would happen after the party found they had been beaten to the punch, which would be balanced (in terms of XP/treasure) to what the other party had achieved (in rough terms, I didn't lock it to they got x you get x).
I eventually managed to schedule a night when everyone could make it and we had a huge battle between the now high level parties, that ended in friendship, and the sudden deaths of Patrons A & B (Demons lol). My players did know what was going on, in general, that there was another party of players in the world, and that mattered, but they had to figure out that the other PCs were their primary antagonists on their own.
Excellent advice and a great, well thought video.
That final skit was awesome, I'm so glad you included it because it made me laugh and I needed that!
Thanks for including the skit at the end. It wasn't too gross to me but I could see why you split it off just in case. I just love the absurd levels of "don't split the party" in it though!
Splitting a party can be fun, but precisely as you said, small bits and CUT, another one. And yes, I did the same with the behind the close doors scene, but yes once again, it is not worth it.
Personaly, I learned a lot from how to do a split party from mr. Rob, handling the group of feral cats thatare his players group in the beginning of VLDL DnD, before the group got together.
Running two separate campaigns is mostly no-no for me, for various reasons and the main is time.
Anyway, love your videos, you are great, please continue doing what you are doing.
The Deleted Intro Skit made me stit my coffee out! LoL
This is a great video for beginners. I am running A L I E N as a first time GM and these are all good tips.
Oh my gosh! That end skit perfectly explains why you should split the party every now and again.
Oh my god that should still have been the opening that was hilarious. Solid advice as always thanks.
Oh, as a DM/GM I always recommend the group split up.... some of the most hilariously brutal or magnificently heroic stories. Okay, mostly hilariously brutal deaths but still good stories! Great video! The end was AWESOME! Too.Damn.Funny.
Sage advice. I have Castle Ravenloft coming up in Curse of Strahd. I planned on splitting the party at some point. Thanks for the pointers!
And while the three are standing there, discussing who watches out for whom, this creepy Clown-Miniature is creeping nearer and nearer...
The skit is hilarious as usual great job, great vid!!!
Loved the skit. always worth adding them
For the record I thought that sketch was great!
I understand what you meant, but it was hilarious and made sense!
Damn only 12 minutes ago!
Personally I find party splitting interesting, but potentially quite difficult for the GM.
Perhaps we get to see the video split off from this, later.
In a long-term campaign I had an arc where the group ended up split into two groups. I had the players make second characters and ran a couple of alternating sessions as the groups eventually found each other. They picked who to keep using and who was an NPC/backup character when the story was done. It was entertaining seeing them explore new viewpoints in the world and get to keep things fresh with some alternate mechanics than what they were used to.
My recommendation for long-term splits would be to do 1-2 sessions with the splitoffs to have a rundown of what they are experiencing (and maybe write some notes about other stuff they want to do and aks the GM for permission to incorporate that as canon), and until they come back they play with the main party as new (temporary) characters or familiar NPCs. This way both sides get their way and the returning PCs have a story or two to tell.
That skit was hilarious. :D
Really funny slit at the end, it is 2 am here and I had troubles not cracking up loudly
Always happy to see a new video from Seth!!!!
This is one of the convenient things about PBEM games, it makes party splits a great deal easier to manage. In my current PBEM Traveller campaign the party is split with half running off to kill the mounts belonging to a group of bandits, while the other half continues to ride point for the merchant caravan. (Primative area of the planet)
What's PBEM? Is it the name of a publisher?
@@clockworkpotato9892 (P)lay (B)y (E)-(M)ail.
@@larsdahl5528 Ahh. Okay.