Oh yes they are ! But that's what makes them so enjoyable i think. The fact that the mechanism is so unnecessarily complicated for the purpose it serves just amazes me. But all of this doesn't take away the fact that the action of the Mars is pretty cool and awesome to watch, like a mini semi auto artillery, partly due to the fact that the action is too complicated i think.
Morenn: I'm not sure that's what Peter had in mind (can't speak for him, though). I like the mechanism in this weapon as well, but from quite the opposite reasons than the Mars - It does what it must in a clever way but it's still straightforward.
Major Fosbery is my grea, great grandfather, I've never heard of the last two guns you posted (the shotgun and this one.) Ian today you've given these stories to my family and I seriously appreciate that man.
That locking mechanism seems ingenious and something that armourers would love... Breech block cracked or damaged? Unthread one screw and put on a new one! Locking plug or firing pin broken? Take out two screws from the back assembly and put in a new one! Worried about the completely reliable and grunt-proof opening mechanism damaging the barrel? Grow a pair!
When one talks about Henry riles one must remember that there were two Henrys: Alexander Henry who was a Scotchman and Benjamin Tyler Henry who was an American. Alexander Henry is known for the Martini-Henry rifle.
Wow. That rifle is in fantastic condition for one half its age. Especially with the metal in the white. It has obviously been carefully stored and well cared for. Nice mechanism. It avoids an excessively long (and probably fragile) firing pin by having the plunger engage the firing pin in the breechblock. Very positive opening and ejecting too, which is important. Mr Fosbery was quite a designer. Trials guns are,always interesting, particularly in an era of technological change like this (muzzleloader to cartridge breech loader). There was no set way of doing things, so the field was open and a lot of ideas were tried. Great video as always. Thank you
These 1800's designs always puts me in the mood to go to Engineering school, buy a few grand worth of tools, and just play around with some home-brew (but won't explode in your face!) designs. That locking post / hammer is really clever.
It would have been kind of cool if he had added a feature that would cock the "hammer" as you pulled the operating lever back...almost would have been like a straight-pull bolt action
I love singe shot rifles, just something about the manual operation that makes every shot feel like it's very own experience. This is a particularly fine rifle. I've been looking for a Springfield 1873 for some time now to be my first single shot rifle (that isn't break action). I found a nice Martini-Henry but I don't have the setup or money to make or buy the ammo.
When trapdoor Springfields sometimes popped open on firing neither the soldiers nor the US Army liked that feature. I am thinking the way this rifle opens probably felt about the same and created the same unease with such a violent motion.
Is this from the same collection, and if so, can we expect more in-depth videos on the other rifles that were shown in that video? Or is this a different example of the same design?
This is a really nice gun! Seems to have every quality a single-shot should have; few parts and strong, easy to operate, easy to service. If this came sixth(!), then what were 5, 4, 3 & 2 to the Martini/Henry's one?
Of interesting note for the trials. Ammo for the Martini Henry that was adopted during the same trials was actually being made for private sale by Eley of London in 1869 with advertisements in a Victoria BC newspaper that June or August before any rifles ever were put in anyone's hands. Beyond a few hundred Trail Rifles.
i think that'd either make the handle stiffer than it needed to be or the handle draw longer than it needed to be to facilitate recocking the gun before opening the breach
While I doubt it is actually the case, this seems like a stepping stone between a trapdoor Springfield and a bolt action. This is a slicker version of a trapdoor, and then after seeing it someone decided to have that rearward pull cock the action as well.
The truly remarkable fact is that hundred years after this gun Major Dick Fosbery developed a new high jump technique and used it to win olympic gold in Mexico City.
I wounder why this was not higher on the list. I mean, the Martini-Henry is a great rifle, so I see how it could loss out to that, but this seems like a good design. Not all good designs can make it though.
You should see if you can get your hands on a Lahti L-35 pistol- It's often overlooked in the family of Luger-style pistols, but was actually pretty good (aside from it being a tad heavy and pretty difficult to disassemble).
Some lovely quality machining in there. Even though it presumably hasn't been used much in the 150 years since the trial, the crispness of the action is impressive. (There may have been a few places you didn't want to leave a finger while operating it; some of those movements look a little TOO crisp.)
Without some type of reciprocating bolt you wouldn't be able to strip the rounds into the chamber. I may be wrong, but it would seem that would need a major reworking of the action, at which point you might as well just get a new rifle.
Of course there are some additional steps that would have to be built in, but my point is that it's teetering right on the cusp of becoming a repeater. Something similar comes along with straight-pull bolt action rifles; they're only a step or two away from being semi-auto.
It's not related with this video but, I had the weirdest dream. I woke up and found a package, a surprise Christmas giveaway, from forgotten weapons. And it was Santa key chain with small "disassemble-able M16" attached to it. I think I watched too many video from Forgotten Weapons! lol It has nothing to do this with video, but it was too weird and wanted to share!! Anyway, awesome video, I love it!
Some of the losing trial guns seem better than some of the winning guns. Im not saying this is better than a martini henry but it definitely has a strong action for the time.
I know this isn't related to the current video but I received an email from APEX gun parts yesterday and they have French MAS 36 parts kits for 150.00. Would make great spare parts for someone who has the need. As always great video.
It's one of the more interesting breachloaders i've seen. Not in innovation, but rather in the way it utilizes space, is composed, and most importantly, how it can be used. Despite not being taken, i feel that with some modifications, it could make a very interesting sniper rifle. Like say, make the whole action canted to the right and thus allowing the optics to sit on top.
Well, the M-H was an easier and faster to operate. when Fosbery's had to be" cook, open, load, close, aim, fire" the Martini-Henry was "lever down, load, lever up, aim, fire" 6cs3 steps fire drill. it is a nice work, but more for a sniper or hunting than rapid fire in battle. compared to M-H.
Would the patent still valid for the gun or not valid, if it is still valid who owns it. I know patents are only valid for a while after the patent owner dies, the exception to this is if a company owns the patent then it's valid till the company close down but after that I'm not sure if it's valid for how long after that.
I cant explain it, but this has got to be one of the most mechanically enjoyable weapons I've ever seen covered on here.
If you haven't seen Ian's videos on the Mars pistols then i recommend you check them out if you like "mechanically enjoyable" weapons.
I think that one (Mars pistol) might be better described as "mechanically nightmarish"...
Oh yes they are ! But that's what makes them so enjoyable i think. The fact that the mechanism is so unnecessarily complicated for the purpose it serves just amazes me. But all of this doesn't take away the fact that the action of the Mars is pretty cool and awesome to watch, like a mini semi auto artillery, partly due to the fact that the action is too complicated i think.
Peter Larkin: Agreed. Something like the toggle lock of the Luger in its own way.
Morenn: I'm not sure that's what Peter had in mind (can't speak for him, though). I like the mechanism in this weapon as well, but from quite the opposite reasons than the Mars - It does what it must in a clever way but it's still straightforward.
Major Fosbery is my grea, great grandfather, I've never heard of the last two guns you posted (the shotgun and this one.) Ian today you've given these stories to my family and I seriously appreciate that man.
ruclips.net/video/fIZpKZbNQU0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/6N1_5_Ws6k0/видео.html
Small world man! Such neat firearms
That locking mechanism seems ingenious and something that armourers would love...
Breech block cracked or damaged? Unthread one screw and put on a new one!
Locking plug or firing pin broken? Take out two screws from the back assembly and put in a new one!
Worried about the completely reliable and grunt-proof opening mechanism damaging the barrel? Grow a pair!
...of barrels. Then you always have a spare one.
The MARTINI.HENRY seems more simple for me. Am I alone to have this feeling ? 😊
Lots of pretty modern manufacturing here for such an early gun. Cool!
Yay flakfire
Shit troll lol
Preston Garvey what?
Fidel IV there's a settlement that needs your help......here I'll mark it is n your map
Preston Garvey I'm always down to grind settlement missions.
When one talks about Henry riles one must remember that there were two Henrys: Alexander Henry who was a Scotchman and Benjamin Tyler Henry who was an American. Alexander Henry is known for the Martini-Henry rifle.
Okaro X bump
Huh, I'd have pegged Alexander Henry as more of a brandy guy.
That is a very good point. I find myself guilty of some elitism assuming followers of this channel would know that off-hand.
Scotsman
@@howardchambers9679 watch is a scotsman but a scotch-man
It always amazes me the condition some of these old guns are in. If this was made in 1866 its 151 years old
Because guns like these are typically heirlooms/in collections, and so tend to be well-maintained.
@@MrSniperdude01At least four.
Wow. That rifle is in fantastic condition for one half its age. Especially with the metal in the white. It has obviously been carefully stored and well cared for. Nice mechanism. It avoids an excessively long (and probably fragile) firing pin by having the plunger engage the firing pin in the breechblock. Very positive opening and ejecting too, which is important. Mr Fosbery was quite a designer. Trials guns are,always interesting, particularly in an era of technological change like this (muzzleloader to cartridge breech loader). There was no set way of doing things, so the field was open and a lot of ideas were tried. Great video as always. Thank you
The thing I love most about Ian is that he pretty much never uses jump cuts.
These 1800's designs always puts me in the mood to go to Engineering school, buy a few grand worth of tools, and just play around with some home-brew (but won't explode in your face!) designs. That locking post / hammer is really clever.
It would have been kind of cool if he had added a feature that would cock the "hammer" as you pulled the operating lever back...almost would have been like a straight-pull bolt action
I love singe shot rifles, just something about the manual operation that makes every shot feel like it's very own experience. This is a particularly fine rifle. I've been looking for a Springfield 1873 for some time now to be my first single shot rifle (that isn't break action). I found a nice Martini-Henry but I don't have the setup or money to make or buy the ammo.
Awesome looking and functioning rifle, especially for its time.
It would be really cool to see other rifles that were in this trial if any still exist.
Little did they know that the Martini Henry would later get nerfed.
This is the best trapdoor action I've ever seen
When trapdoor Springfields sometimes popped open on firing neither the soldiers nor the US Army liked that feature. I am thinking the way this rifle opens probably felt about the same and created the same unease with such a violent motion.
I seem to recall a brief demonstration of this rifle previously in a collection of British Breechloading & Trials Guns.
Yes, you remember correctly.
Is this from the same collection, and if so, can we expect more in-depth videos on the other rifles that were shown in that video? Or is this a different example of the same design?
Man, I really like this thing
I agree, it's a very simple, but likely effective action. I want one!
That thing looks like it was made yesterday.
This is a really nice gun! Seems to have every quality a single-shot should have; few parts and strong, easy to operate, easy to service. If this came sixth(!), then what were 5, 4, 3 & 2 to the Martini/Henry's one?
Of interesting note for the trials. Ammo for the Martini Henry that was adopted during the same trials was actually being made for private sale by Eley of London in 1869 with advertisements in a Victoria BC newspaper that June or August before any rifles ever were put in anyone's hands. Beyond a few hundred Trail Rifles.
A straight pull breach block single shot.... I am smiling 😊
I love the audible THUMP of the mechanism as it cycles. Seems like it could have been a decent weapon.
Does it require from shooter to manually cock the hammer before pulling the action back?
Yes - as long as the hammer is down the action is locked shut.
Interesting, why not connect cocking mechanism with the handle, that when shooter pulls it, it unlocks the action?
That was actually a really good question. That would slow down and complicate the reload.
i think that'd either make the handle stiffer than it needed to be or the handle draw longer than it needed to be to facilitate recocking the gun before opening the breach
Honestly, I think that wasn't thought of at the time, because no one else was really working on such an advancement at that time.
While I doubt it is actually the case, this seems like a stepping stone between a trapdoor Springfield and a bolt action. This is a slicker version of a trapdoor, and then after seeing it someone decided to have that rearward pull cock the action as well.
I can see why the Martini-henry was chosen, but this looks a very well thought out rifle indeed.
Very strange Berthier prototoype.
Never seen an action quite like that. Very cool.
The truly remarkable fact is that hundred years after this gun Major Dick Fosbery developed a new high jump technique and used it to win olympic gold in Mexico City.
What an amazing work of art!
I read this title as "Major Thornberry"
Well, Nigel Thornberry wouldn't look out of place in the 19th century British Army.
FX97Silencer Beat me to it...
Kittenstomper said SMASHING as he put a another round into the chamber.
That's an interesting byway of the story of how the Martini-Henry got adopted.
GunJesus dropped that gun knowledge. Hallowed be thy receiver, Amen.
36 kalire
thank for taking a 2nd detailed look on this one ;-)
Now that´s an infallible out-of-battery safety!
This looks like a really good rifle.
I wounder why this was not higher on the list. I mean, the Martini-Henry is a great rifle, so I see how it could loss out to that, but this seems like a good design. Not all good designs can make it though.
You should see if you can get your hands on a Lahti L-35 pistol- It's often overlooked in the family of Luger-style pistols, but was actually pretty good (aside from it being a tad heavy and pretty difficult to disassemble).
Thank you, very interesting as always.
Thank you for your sermon, Gun Jesus. You Bless :)
It seems it would be as fast as a Martini-Henry, if a little more complicated.
Some lovely quality machining in there. Even though it presumably hasn't been used much in the 150 years since the trial, the crispness of the action is impressive. (There may have been a few places you didn't want to leave a finger while operating it; some of those movements look a little TOO crisp.)
i prefer my martini-henry dry
Excellent as allways.
Cool rifle. Fosberry should have integrated the lever with the pin so when you pull it back far enough the hammer is cocked
Wow I like that thing. something about that action is very elegant.
also invented the Fosbury Flop :P
Nigel Thornberry's Smashing Rifle
Clever chap, that Fosbery.
That is absolutely slick
I feel like Ian is talking in the tone you use when trying not to wake a baby. (I think the echoes are strong in the room)
Im getting some 1873 Trapdoor Springfield vibes
It reminds me of a lot of single-shot cartridge designs: how easy it would be to add an internal magazine of some sort . . .
Without some type of reciprocating bolt you wouldn't be able to strip the rounds into the chamber. I may be wrong, but it would seem that would need a major reworking of the action, at which point you might as well just get a new rifle.
Of course there are some additional steps that would have to be built in, but my point is that it's teetering right on the cusp of becoming a repeater. Something similar comes along with straight-pull bolt action rifles; they're only a step or two away from being semi-auto.
It's not related with this video but, I had the weirdest dream. I woke up and found a package, a surprise Christmas giveaway, from forgotten weapons. And it was Santa key chain with small "disassemble-able M16" attached to it. I think I watched too many video from Forgotten Weapons! lol
It has nothing to do this with video, but it was too weird and wanted to share!!
Anyway, awesome video, I love it!
The action on this Fosbury flipped.
I think a little strip of leather would be better than a copper panel to absorb the shock of the bolt lid smacking the barrel / rear sight.
So in principal it's basically a vertically opening snider...later at least.
oh and it has wifi too (0:51)... really ahead of its time!
That's a nice looking rifle.
Seems like a really nice system. I wonder if it was just too unfamiliar to be accepted
Like a Model 1876 trapdoor, but "bolt actioned". I like it.
Ian, did you say what caliber it was built in?
Almost The Mandalorian rifle.
Quite similar system to the Albini Braendlin or earlier Mont Storm it seems
That's a strange looking Berthier..
More reliable extraction but slower to reload when compared to a Martini-Henry.
I wish I could buy one of these
It's a beautyfully made rifle, but the Marini Henry, at quick glance looks more modern and easyer to manufacture.
Is the inletted section of barrel just forward of the forend for a bayonet? Just curious why it is there.
That firing pin lock and tilting bolt is much like the system used in Russian Berdan no 1.
If this trial was in 1866, wouldn't the cartridge they were looking for be the .577 snider cartridge, and not .577/.450 martini?
I am sure Allin saw this and dev. a more positive lock on the 73 Springfield wish he kept the ejector. Did this use a paper Case?
First, great videos man, one of my favorite channels. They should put you on the history channel
If the history channel hired Ian, they would have to start doing historically accurate programming.
what no more UFO!
Marcus Ramirez Ahh the history channel with such notable documentaries as "Storage wars" and "Ancient Aliens".
I wonder why he didn't make the "bolt" cock the hammer as it was pulled back to open the action. Would've been a sweet feature imo
Ian sounds exhausted
Very cool rifle!
Some of the losing trial guns seem better than some of the winning guns. Im not saying this is better than a martini henry but it definitely has a strong action for the time.
Now I wanna make myself a Fosbery Martini!
The locking system is very similar to a Wanzl.
i wish history was this fun in school
Great video! Very interesting.
Is this like a trapdoor and does this predate US builds? If so, were they going to retrofit muskets like US did? Thanks.
Ian in every video: ...so let's take it apart...oh wait, first we need to look at the markings.
i live in a paradox in bexhill with Floss dog.
The Martini-Henry is definitely faster o operate, just yank the lever and the empty case is spat out.
Does this count as the earliest commercial straight pull rifle or are there earlier ones?
I know this isn't related to the current video but I received an email from APEX gun parts yesterday and they have French MAS 36 parts kits for 150.00.
Would make great spare parts for someone who has the need.
As always great video.
The Martini-Henry could be loaded and fired in 4 steps while this needed 5. the Springfield trapdoor rifle also needed 5 steps.
Was there any way to lower the 'hammer' safely on a loaded chamber?
It's one of the more interesting breachloaders i've seen. Not in innovation, but rather in the way it utilizes space, is composed, and most importantly, how it can be used. Despite not being taken, i feel that with some modifications, it could make a very interesting sniper rifle. Like say, make the whole action canted to the right and thus allowing the optics to sit on top.
huh, the thought of Civil War Era CQC suddenly makes a battlefield into a Kung Fu flick XD
Can't help, I don't like guns where the breech just get looked by the "falling hammer".
They Should have stuck with this, the fosbery mechanism had the ability to fire while in prone like a bolt action does.
That is a good out of battery safety.
Well, the M-H was an easier and faster to operate.
when Fosbery's had to be" cook, open, load, close, aim, fire" the Martini-Henry was "lever down, load, lever up, aim, fire" 6cs3 steps fire drill.
it is a nice work, but more for a sniper or hunting than rapid fire in battle. compared to M-H.
Would the patent still valid for the gun or not valid, if it is still valid who owns it. I know patents are only valid for a while after the patent owner dies, the exception to this is if a company owns the patent then it's valid till the company close down but after that I'm not sure if it's valid for how long after that.
Patents are only valid for (typically) 17 years. Any patents on this are long, long expired.
The Fosebery tastes like gunpowder...
Good old Fosbery,he just kept on trying.he could have been the brits answer to Browning ? :)
Cool stuff!
This thing pretty interesting
Quite similar to my albini braedlin