I haven't built and engine in about 20 some years now.. But I have been getting the itch again.. Built a lot of them back in the day.. I think I would like to build just one more before it become impossible for me to do.. thanks my brother.. I appreciate even the dream of doing it again..
HP Monster....The pushrod checking procedure isn’t extremely difficult but your smooth flowing technique and confident demeanor simplifies the process even more. My 351 Cleveland build is at the point where I need to check pushrod length. I will be ordering a set of custom length Smith Brothers pushrods so I can’t afford to make any mistakes. I’m going to measure three times and order once 😉. I like the measuring rods that don’t have lock nuts to interfere with the guide plates. They have something like a micrometer with the indicator marks etched into threaded sections for reading the results but I don’t feel like the accuracy is reliable. I have a couple of digital calipers but they aren’t long enough for the length of the checker. So I need to order a 12” digital caliper to take measurements that are usually around 8.300” for my valve train using a solid roller cam and lifters with Harland-Sharp 1.73 roller rockers. Your tool list in the foot notes didn’t mention the digital caliper you used. Do you have any particular preferences for the caliper or additional tech information you could share with the group about digital measurements ? Thanks for sharing and keep the good stuff coming !
Thanks for sharing. I’ll be checking my push rod length soon as my cam comes in!! I’m using a hydraulic roller I don’t know if solid roller lifter are the same height until I check that out also to get correct length! Great explanation!!
There is a "ticking" at start-up coming from my 1989 B-150 Dodge Van's engine. The "ticking" lasts anywhere from 5 - 10 minutes then stops. Do you think it's coming from a lifter or it needs a valve adjustment (if it can be adjusted)? The engine has just over 500,000 miles on it. Its never been rebuilt. I'm the original owner. The engine runs strong and still wants to rip the wheels off when I hit the gas. I've used Marvel Mystery Oil in the crank and in every gas fill-up. The "ticking" has been going on for over 15 years. Great videos! I'm sure there are a bunch of viewers like me out there who appreciate you taking the time to produce them.
Channels like this tend to leave out that critical info. Frustrating, I know. I measured half the plunger travel of my lifters (.045") and added it to the overall length which then came to 7.045". Now unless I order custom length pushrods there isn't any available 7.045" pushrod. With that in mind a 7.050" pushrod is what I'll be running.
Very informative video, Ive watched a few of these and saw in some of the videos that you would have to add .05" to adjust for preload in a hydraulic cam. Is that true?
To each their own, but I always adjust until I get the shortest possible sweep no matter where it falls. As long as it isn't rolling off the edge, the rocker always pushes straight down. Wide sweep patterns lead to guide wear.
Trying to find the shortest sweep across the valvestem tip is effectively shortening the real rocker arm ratio. And I would be careful about not centering the sweep across the top of the valve. The Comp Cams guys told me that extensive Spintron testing has shown that having the rocker off center can significantly increase wear on both the stem and the valveguide. So even though you change the valve, the engine still isn't as stable as it was when new. Even though the rocker is still pushing down, putting pressure on the valvesteam off center still encourages flex. Thanks for watching.
I agree to a point narrow sweep is far better including less side loading, improved rocker ratio, less skewed valve acceleration rates, likely better following cam designers expectations. But there is a common sens point were if the pattern is to far off center that will be no good.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster changing the width of the sweep has absolutely zero effect on rocker ratio. What it does do, is reduces the back and forth motion of the roller across the valve tip. The excessive back and forth motion from bad rocker geometry is what wears out guides and valve tips. Having the sweep slightly off center will NOT cause additional wear and whoever told you this was mistaken. I use the center third of the valve tip as my "allowable" operating range. It doesn't have to be perfectly centered, but it does have to be as narrow as possible.
Shortest possible sweep? You have zero control over that, it's completely defined by the rocker arm geometry. Simply put, for minimum valve guide wear, you minimize the side loads by selecting a pushrod length to best make the rocker contact arc go straight through the valve centerline.
Should an old head gasket be torqued to specification to put the head at operating height, or new gasket used. If a new gasket is used is it sacrificed for this process to determine push rod length? I didn't catch that information in the video. Thanks for your useful information and well made video.
Glad you like it! Yes, you do need a gasket in place. I used a old head gasket that has already been compressed, but you can use a new one. If you use a new MLS (multi-layer steel) gasket, it has enough spring in it that it can be reused. Good luck.
Hi Mrv V! Awesome and important question you stated! I did not even think of that. Thank you for adding your comment. Great knowledge for followers of this channel. Cheers from Motown.
Love this channel and your builds. I noticed the retainer to rocker arm clearance looked to be very small in this video, did you observe this? Keep up the awesome videos !
Doing this in 2022 on a Corvair motor. These old heads have had lots of valve jobs, and valves & guides replaced over 50+ years, so every single valve gets a custom pushrod. Seems like you and all the books say to have rocker contact centered across the valve tip but I disagree. Valve spring force starts at 100# and increases to over 250# at full lift. Valve/guide load & wear vary proportionally to the lift. So I prefer to cheat the contact area closer to the valve, "higher" as you call it here. Of course this is upside down compared to a Corvair. Anyway my goal is to have the contact point centered at max lift & spring pressure. Maybe just barely past center (lower in your terminology). My 2 cents.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Thanks ,I really didn't think it had rings, nobody would run a motor that leaked like that. I have no Idea why I would make such a stupid statement like that, Sorry
@@dennistaylor5052 Not stupid, and ain't nothing to be sorry about. At least you didn't call me an idiot or worse :) I've actually been called stupid for the color of paint an engine builder chose to use on a block!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster It's easy to be a "KEY BOARD" warrior, I really don't understand why people are so "SALTY". I just had a conversation with a Guy about 1970 Ls6, I Quoted out of 1970 Hot Rod, It ran 13.44 and the 1970 GTO ran 13.37. You would of thought I "Slapped" his wife. I have a 68 GTO so to be "Fair" I think I stated those times , just to Twist his wick, Because I know how twitchy the Chevy Guys can get (and I was right) So I can be a "POOP" too. In Life there's talkers and there's doer's....Most are talkers
Its amazing to me that all the auto manufacturers have to measure all push rods and corresponding parts on every lobe with every rocker...? I'm surprised they don't have boxes of push rods, these are for a 5.0 these are for 6.0
Not disagreeing with you, but I work with a lot of engine builders that do everything from NASCAR to NHRA, and this is the method I see every one of them use. Thanks for watching.
So..my intake side is perfect..centered and correct geometry. Now the exhaust side seems like the rocker arm studs are way to close valve stem, I've used adjustable pushrod, Not possible to get centered, like I need a shorter rocker arms, Only thing I can think of is I have to tall of exhaust valves I have no idea, This is why you should never buy Chinese made heads people,
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I haven't built and engine in about 20 some years now.. But I have been getting the itch again.. Built a lot of them back in the day.. I think I would like to build just one more before it become impossible for me to do.. thanks my brother.. I appreciate even the dream of doing it again..
Go for it!
As an old hot rodder, Did mine in the 70’s, and a shade tree mech this was an informative vid. Can’t ever have to much stable horsepower. Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words!
HP Monster....The pushrod checking procedure isn’t extremely difficult but your smooth flowing technique and confident demeanor simplifies the process even more.
My 351 Cleveland build is at the point where I need to check pushrod length. I will be ordering a set of custom length Smith Brothers pushrods so I can’t afford to make any mistakes. I’m going to measure three times and order once 😉.
I like the measuring rods that don’t have lock nuts to interfere with the guide plates. They have something like a micrometer with the indicator marks etched into threaded sections for reading the results but I don’t feel like the accuracy is reliable. I have a couple of digital calipers but they aren’t long enough for the length of the checker.
So I need to order a 12” digital caliper to take measurements that are usually around 8.300” for my valve train using a solid roller cam and lifters with Harland-Sharp 1.73 roller rockers. Your tool list in the foot notes didn’t mention the digital caliper you used. Do you have any particular preferences for the caliper or additional tech information you could share with the group about digital measurements ?
Thanks for sharing and keep the good stuff coming !
Did I miss something? Guide plate under rocker stud will raise the height and change the push rod, liked your video was fun
Excellent explanation, simple, clear & informative.
Cheers😊
Thanks! And thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing. I’ll be checking my push rod length soon as my cam comes in!! I’m using a hydraulic roller I don’t know if solid roller lifter are the same height until I check that out also to get correct length! Great explanation!!
Thanks and good luck! Thanks for watching!
There is a "ticking" at start-up coming from my 1989 B-150 Dodge Van's engine.
The "ticking" lasts anywhere from 5 - 10 minutes then stops. Do you think it's coming from a lifter or it needs a valve adjustment (if it can be adjusted)? The engine has just over 500,000 miles on it. Its never been rebuilt. I'm the original owner. The engine runs strong and still wants to rip the wheels off when I hit the gas. I've used Marvel Mystery Oil in the crank and in every gas fill-up. The "ticking" has been going on for over 15 years.
Great videos! I'm sure there are a bunch of viewers like me out there who appreciate you taking the time to produce them.
Thank you!! Very informative! I needed to know this for my engine rebuild!!
Thanks! Good luck with your build!
Im always learning from this channel! Thanks!
Awesome! Thanks for the kind words!
If you are doing a hydraulic set up would add any length for preload ?
Channels like this tend to leave out that critical info. Frustrating, I know. I measured half the plunger travel of my lifters (.045") and added it to the overall length which then came to 7.045". Now unless I order custom length pushrods there isn't any available 7.045" pushrod. With that in mind a 7.050" pushrod is what I'll be running.
Very informative video, Ive watched a few of these and saw in some of the videos that you would have to add .05" to adjust for preload in a hydraulic cam. Is that true?
To each their own, but I always adjust until I get the shortest possible sweep no matter where it falls. As long as it isn't rolling off the edge, the rocker always pushes straight down. Wide sweep patterns lead to guide wear.
Trying to find the shortest sweep across the valvestem tip is effectively shortening the real rocker arm ratio. And I would be careful about not centering the sweep across the top of the valve. The Comp Cams guys told me that extensive Spintron testing has shown that having the rocker off center can significantly increase wear on both the stem and the valveguide. So even though you change the valve, the engine still isn't as stable as it was when new. Even though the rocker is still pushing down, putting pressure on the valvesteam off center still encourages flex. Thanks for watching.
I agree to a point narrow sweep is far better including less side loading, improved rocker ratio, less skewed valve acceleration rates, likely better following cam designers expectations. But there is a common sens point were if the pattern is to far off center that will be no good.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster changing the width of the sweep has absolutely zero effect on rocker ratio. What it does do, is reduces the back and forth motion of the roller across the valve tip. The excessive back and forth motion from bad rocker geometry is what wears out guides and valve tips. Having the sweep slightly off center will NOT cause additional wear and whoever told you this was mistaken. I use the center third of the valve tip as my "allowable" operating range. It doesn't have to be perfectly centered, but it does have to be as narrow as possible.
Shortest possible sweep? You have zero control over that, it's completely defined by the rocker arm geometry. Simply put, for minimum valve guide wear, you minimize the side loads by selecting a pushrod length to best make the rocker contact arc go straight through the valve centerline.
@@ercost60you sir, have it wrong.
Thank you. I'm building a 460 and I have a lot of this stuff sorted out but that's always been one of the things I didn't know. Want to help?
That was actually pretty cool.
Thanks!
I like your videos... short and to the point!
Thanks!
Should an old head gasket be torqued to specification to put the head at operating height, or new gasket used. If a new gasket is used is it sacrificed for this process to determine push rod length? I didn't catch that information in the video. Thanks for your useful information and well made video.
Glad you like it! Yes, you do need a gasket in place. I used a old head gasket that has already been compressed, but you can use a new one. If you use a new MLS (multi-layer steel) gasket, it has enough spring in it that it can be reused. Good luck.
Hi Mrv V! Awesome and important question you stated! I did not even think of that. Thank you for adding your comment. Great knowledge for followers of this channel. Cheers from Motown.
Is rocker arm ratio the same as mechanical advantage? If no, how are they different?
Love this channel and your builds. I noticed the retainer to rocker arm clearance looked to be very small in this video, did you observe this? Keep up the awesome videos !
D I
Well explained
good information
Thanks!
Doing this in 2022 on a Corvair motor. These old heads have had lots of valve jobs, and valves & guides replaced over 50+ years, so every single valve gets a custom pushrod. Seems like you and all the books say to have rocker contact centered across the valve tip but I disagree. Valve spring force starts at 100# and increases to over 250# at full lift. Valve/guide load & wear vary proportionally to the lift. So I prefer to cheat the contact area closer to the valve, "higher" as you call it here. Of course this is upside down compared to a Corvair. Anyway my goal is to have the contact point centered at max lift & spring pressure. Maybe just barely past center (lower in your terminology). My 2 cents.
Intresting 👍👍
Does that have "Rings" in it ??? leaking a lot of air...90% leak down?
Nope, no rings. Just mocked up for the video. Thanks for watching
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Thanks ,I really didn't think it had rings, nobody would run a motor that leaked like that. I have no Idea why I would make such a stupid statement like that, Sorry
@@dennistaylor5052 Not stupid, and ain't nothing to be sorry about. At least you didn't call me an idiot or worse :) I've actually been called stupid for the color of paint an engine builder chose to use on a block!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster It's easy to be a "KEY BOARD" warrior, I really don't understand why people are so "SALTY". I just had a conversation with a Guy about 1970 Ls6, I Quoted out of 1970 Hot Rod, It ran 13.44 and the 1970 GTO ran 13.37. You would of thought I "Slapped" his wife. I have a 68 GTO so to be "Fair" I think I stated those times , just to Twist his wick, Because I know how twitchy the Chevy Guys can get (and I was right) So I can be a "POOP" too. In Life there's talkers and there's doer's....Most are talkers
Awesome thanks
Good stuff!
Very helpful.
You were checking your valve stem pattern at 0 lash which is not how you run. Why didn't you put in your valve lash?
Push rods you say🤔, haven't seen these in a performance engine since the cold war🤣😉.
Keep up the great videos 👍
Pretty funny! But LS fans might beg to differ. Thanks for watching!
Its amazing to me that all the auto manufacturers have to measure all push rods and corresponding parts on every lobe with every rocker...? I'm surprised they don't have boxes of push rods, these are for a 5.0 these are for 6.0
thats a rather lengthy way to determine correct pushrod length,much faster and more accurate ways than that
justin cassidy Please explain the process or paste in link that does that. Thanks.
Not disagreeing with you, but I work with a lot of engine builders that do everything from NASCAR to NHRA, and this is the method I see every one of them use. Thanks for watching.
This is the way I've done it since 1972. Works perfectly every time.
👍🏼😷
💪😎🏴☠️
So..my intake side is perfect..centered and correct geometry. Now the exhaust side seems like the rocker arm studs are way to close valve stem, I've used adjustable pushrod, Not possible to get centered, like I need a shorter rocker arms, Only thing I can think of is I have to tall of exhaust valves I have no idea, This is why you should never buy Chinese made heads people,
Easy buy a real engine with double over head cams and get rid of that 70 yr old designed engine, no need to figure pushrod anything LOL
Oh and it allows more RPM for more power, there is a reason most all race series left the pushrods decades ago LOL
LS and LT engines? Oh, and Ford just designed a new clean-sheet engine and it has pushrods.
What is the power required to rotate a push rod valve train?