How to disassemble a 2013 Nissan leaf battery pack
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- I show how to open and take apart a 2013 Nissan Leaf battery pack to harvest the 48 battery modules (each containing 4 cells) inside.
More details about where I purchased the pack, and how I packaged them to use in my S-10 Electric Pickup truck can be found on my blog under the "leaf" tag:
www.summet.com...
The plastic and metal plates are PTC heating elements for warming the battery in extreme cold. Not crash detection sensors.
Jay, thanks for posting. After watching this, I cut mine open with an angle grinder - didn't take long. Cheers for showing the inside. Dave.
Thank you !!!!!! I am doing this right now and was not sure how to deal with the sticky mastic holding the top cover on- you are a LOAD of help
Brilliant job showing us the complexity of this battery. So "changing" a "bad" sector is really just not an option, better to buy a complete new set. I would like to see far more info by sellers of EV's regarding the replacement costs of batteries and the labor required to do the job. Definitely not a first time EV owner DIY project!! Thanks again for an excellent video.
You certainly could drop the battery, open it up, and change out a single module, but it would be quite a production. Nissan sells a replacement 24kwh battery like this for $5,500, I believe it comes to around $6,500 with labor for the install. (And they require you to exchange the old battery "CORE" to get that price.)
Wow ! you need a lot of knowledge of electronics before opening up/dismantling a battery pack like this .. i don't so i'll leave to the experts to do that for me .. but great vid ! really interesting and educational.. thanks for sharing this ..
Very helpful, just finished mine watching you do it, thank you.
Hi Jay, thanks for your video, I'm busy with mine now.
Awesome video Jay! Direct and to the point! Five stars!
360 volts of DC is a quick way to go!!!!!
personally i'd never attempt to work on on of these without proper training.
Yes, you certainly want to have a healthy respect for the power contained in the battery, and take proper safety precautions. You'll want to separate the different parts of the battery as quickly as possible to reduce the voltage of each part you are working on (such as by pulling the safety disconnect before you even open the battery), and always use the proper tools and protective gear.
Excellent no-nonsense video. Thankyou! I wonder if anyone has used one of these packs in its entirety, still sealed , so using the internal BMS etc and managed to communicate with it.
+Will Datsun Thanks! I know of one guy who is reverse engineering the BMS to use in a 190 volt system (by connecting the battery monitoring chips to a new microcontroller running his own code) but don't know of anybody using them factory stock. (If you did, you may as well just take the whole drivetrain over...)
- I don't suggest disassembling these packs. I work at the Nissan Battery Plant and the electrolyte used in the cells is a very dangerous liquid that could cause serious body harm. If even a little dent is punched into one cell and it gets on you it would not end well. We take safety very seriously. Please be careful and if you smell a sweet smell it means one of the cells have been damaged and is leaking.
+Dustin Hale Thanks for the caution. One definitely does not want to touch their month/nose/eyes if they get li-ion electrolyte on their hands. BUT, as dangerous batteries go, it is much safer than the sulphuric acid in Lead Acid batteries.
I would say that the bigger danger is the high power levels that they can discharge if you accidentally short them.
Jay Summet what is the electrolyte? Can it be neutralised with bi carb or anything els? Just in case I get my hands on one and what to be extra safe.
The electrolyte solvent is fine - it is the sweet smell - the electrolyte is LiPF6, which in itself is not that dangerous, but it reacts with water to generate HF, so you want to wrap any leaking cell up and dispose of it safely. Any smoking/burning cells would be particularly toxic though...
I used to drive a Leaf (drive Volt now), and I'm an electrical engineer. It's possible I may be doing the same disassembly some day...
Good job !
Great video, thanks. What is each modules voltage and capacity?
Craig Minca each of the 48 modules are approximately 8 volts and 60 amp hours
is there a way to drain the battery before you start working on it?
If you have it in a car, you can turn on the heater and let it run (or drive it around). Otherwise, not easily. [You can always rig up a large resistor in a 55 gallon barrel of water, but you'd need the right connectors and the right sequencing of the 12v pins to turn on the main contractors to get the 400 v to the water heater.]
These batteries are definetelly high precision and quite complicated in a way of their packing. But also I have noticed that not all the space is used for capacity. It would be better to simplify the battery but maximaizing the energy storage. Is there a 30-kWh battery disassembling video yet?
Not that I've seen yet. My understanding is that the modules are twice as thick (so they use 24 instead of 48 of them) but otherwise the physical layout is exactly the same. The gain from 24-kWh to 30-kWh was made with a chemistry change more than with a size change.
Jay Summet OK. Are 24 and 30-kWh batteries replaceable? I'd like to buy 2013-2014 Leaf but would I be able to install 30-kWh version in future?
You definitely won't be able to just swap one in for another. You MAY be able to take the modules from a 2017 Leaf and put them into the existing shell of a 2013 Leaf, but you may have to make your own mounting points, etc...and you'd have to use the BMS that came with the original battery. I wouldn't want to try it, at that point it's probably easier to just take the modules out to use in a conversion.
Is the form of battery in 2017 is different from 2011
Is it really worth it to refurbish nessian leaf battery
In my case, I was harvesting the modules to use in my electric S-10 conversion pickup, and it was definitely worth my time to buy used modules this way (Auto Salvage). I have also heard of others who take an older battery pack and replace the modules with new(er) modules from a wrecked car to restore the capacity of the older pack/car.
are this cell are second generation cells?
I believe they are (from a late 2013 leaf). See more photos here: www.summet.com/blog/2015/09/27/leaf-battery-module-differences-36-normal-and-12-special/
What BMS are you using for these modules? I'm considering Leaf modules for my sailboat ev re-power project.
+Christopher Chow I'm using the mini-BMS modules by clean power auto. You can see how they are set up by viewing the blog link in the video description.
I was thinking about doing this in my '98 Dakota, but I want to keep the battery pack intact if possible. I think the factory did a great job of making a safe and durable package. Do you have the external dimensions for the pack? Thank you.
Overall (maximum) Dimensions 61.8 x 46.8 x 10.4 in. (1570.5 x 1188 x 264.9 mm), weight is just under 700 lb
Yes, the factory battery is a nicely packaged unit, and the BMS unit is very nice as well. Unfortunately, I needed a 120 volt battery, but if the rest of your system can work with the 400 volt pack as-is, keeping it intact is a very nice solution.
Thank you! Hmm... That may not fit between the frame rails. Perhaps it would fit on top of the rails, but under the bed. Or maybe swap the bed for a flat bed.
By the way, did you ever try using a hot knife (torch) to soften the sealant around the edge?
Hello, my Nissan leaf now on 10 bars and i heard there is chance to make it back to 12 bars with replacing cells, am still don't know if its true there is something like that and make my car back again like new battery ? please tell me more about range and your driving experience with new cells :) thanks for your video
It is possible to purchase a low mileage leaf battery pack from a wreck, open both it and yours, and replace all of your older modules with the newer modules. (You'd have to check the year/model compatibility for fit...) It is not a simple procedure, would definitely void any warranty you may have, and probably isn't worth doing until you are down to 8 bars or less. A 10 bar Leaf still has useful range, if it's not enough for you, I'd suggest selling it and upgrading to a newer electric vehicle, would would probably be easier.
@@summetj thanks for your advice, but i believe i can't do by my own hands, there a garage here they say they can replace the cells and make it back 12 bars and i asked people on nissan leaf facebook group they says its scamming and it can't be happend, nothing say about the battries for nissan can be replaced the cells, so you think i should go a head with that garage and make them replace the cells ?
@@designerge It is technically possible to open up the battery and replace some/all of the individual modules to increase the overall range of the battery. (Best results are obtained by replacing all of the modules, keeping them matched. The only benefit to replacing a few modules is if only those modules are failing, but in that case the Nissan powertrain warranty would apply.)
I can't judge if your garage is competent and able to do the procedure.
I have also heard that it is possible to reset the BMS back to 12 bars in software, without touching the battery. The reset only lasts a few weeks until the BMS re-learns the actual capacity of the original modules and then the bars go back down to where they should be, so beware of that possible scam.
Is it possible to replace the broken cells. For a complete battery? 12 bar. If the car battery 8 bar. So we do not replace the battery when you become weak?
With some work you can replace an individual module (the BMS will learn the "new" capacity of that module over time).
However, unless a single module was "bad" you would probably need to replace ALL of the modules to gain extra capacity. Typically, Nissan has good quality modules, so they all degrade at the same rate. So the way to "upgrade" an old 2011 battery would be to swap over all 48 modules from a 2015 battery (keeping the old BMS, which is tied/programmed to the car's VIN number).
that means it not useful to open the battary . and doing any thing with it .just we lose our time .
I opened the battery to harvest the modules to use in a different project. I know of somebody who has "upgraded" two old Leaf batteries by replacing all of the modules with new modules from a salvaged battery, so it has been done, but it is labor intensive.
Hi What about programming Do you have the battery programming for Nissan 2013
No, sorry. Check out wolftronics for a guy who has a device that talks to the BMS.
I'm looking for a battery that would power my kayak all day on the water with a 46lb thrust motor and radio, I wonder if one stack out of this would work ?
How many amps does your motor draw? What voltage is it?
@@summetj Its a 12v 46lb thrust I think it draws around 16 amp on a high speed.
@@huckfin8666 That is a 12v *16a = 192 watt draw. The leaf modules are 8v @ 66 AH =528 watt/hr capacity (when new). You would need 2 in series to get up to 16 volts, so two modules would be (16x66AH= 1056 watt/hour of capacity new). I'll assume you are using used modules that are around 40AH capacity (16x40 = 640 watt hour), so two modules could run your motor for ~ 3 hours. Six of them in a 2S3P arrangement like in my video would be 3X16X40 = 1920 watt/hr and divided by 192 = 10 hours of runtime.
@@summetj Well thanks for time, I'm using a 12v deep cycle battery now I can run about 4hours safely but was wanting the security to know my battery will last me all day and not get stranded out on the water. I'm running a 10´5" kayak for fishing so my space is limited, But thanks !
I looked down the replies and never heard it in the video but how much did you pay for the whole car? and where did you get it?
You'll want to look at my blog for extra details like how to buy a salvage leaf:
www.summet.com/blog/2015/03/26/how-to-purchase-a-leaf-battery-pack-and-surrounding-car/
And the economies of harvesting Leaf modules from a salvage car:
www.summet.com/blog/2015/11/21/economies-of-harvesting-nissan-leaf-battery-modules/
Hello how much will it cost to buy a pack of 500wh 7.4v pack.
Can you also send to Nigeria for me?
Sorry, I don't sell these.
how many ah.is on cell. are there parralle connection?
Each of the 48 modules is rated at 60 Ah. In the Leaf pack, all 48 modules are wired in series for a 393 volt pack. (Within each module are 4 pouch cells of 30Ah 4.1 volt, 2 series 2 parallel gives 60 Ah, 8.2 volt per module.)
Were any 500 volt gloves harmed in the making of this video?
Nope, they survived just fine.
What is the best way to find a battery pack??
Charles Logan I purchased an entire Salvage Nissan Leaf from the Copart Auto Auction. You can also purchase just the battery pack from auto dismantlers and sometimes junk yards.
Hi Jay, that was a brilliant video, I am doing my dissertation on disassembly of EV batteries. I was wondering if I can get in touch with you ?
do think we can control the battery heater that is in the battery pack so we could get the battery hotter during the winter ? Because now it is starting at -17 and stop at -10c but i rather see it stop to 15c and start when it -5c anyone have the solution??
The BMS has the circuitry that can turn on the pack heater, but I don't know if it makes the decision on it's own (independent of the engine control unit). My guess is yes, as it also reads the temperature sensors in the pack. But I don't know if it will turn on the pack heater when the pack is not connected to a car (sitting in a junkyard for example...)
I don't know if there is a way to program a different on/off temp setpoint, but if there was it would probably be via the CAN bus.
One potential "hack" would be to modify the temperature sensors in some way to make them appear to read 5c "cooler" all of the time, but this may result in your pack overheating when it is warm outside and the car not knowing to go into turtle mode.
thanks for the fast answer if you find anything about that i would be happy
i see there is ne cooling? can you say smth about the bms? thx
Yes, the only cooling is passive conduction through the steel box. (They
do have integrated heating elements to keep the pack from freezing.)
The BMS has 97 wires that "touch" every + and - terminal of every cell
(via the sense terminals in the modules) so that the BMS knows the
voltage of every cell. It can discharge cells slowly (20mA) over time to
bring them all to the same voltage level (balancing the cells). 20 mA
isn't a lot, but it can balance 24/7 so that adds up over time.
The BMS talks over the cars CAN bus, and the LeafSpy Pro android
application can be used to view info about each cell as well as charging
history and a pack capacity rating.
thx a lot for insight info, I just didn't see the little wires for BMS. Missing active cooling is also a money saving issue i see, because overheating the batteries, especially localy, decrease the capacity dramatically. It will be the reason, that Leaf is not the "rocket" on the street. Controller must limit the output power in order not to overburden the battery. Wrong strategy of Nissan IMO.
Jay Summet good job
Where you buy? I want too
I purchased an entire salvage (crashed) Nissan Leaf from the CoPart auto auction. You can also buy just the battery packs from auto salvage yards.
what's your purpose in dismantling these batteries, are you going to use them to make yourself an electric motorcycle or an electric vehicle, or what?
I used them in my S-10 electric pickup truck. See the following links for a video and some writeups:
ruclips.net/video/PjTwhR-DrqQ/видео.html
www.summet.com/blog/tag/leaf/
Jay Summet ... Great, I hope that worked out for you! Thanks for the link, I'll be sure to check it out soon! 🙂
You’ll find measuring an item built with the metric system easier with a metric tape. It’s based on 10 like the same amount of fingers n thumbs you should have been issued with. Very easy for 99% of the world.
you didn't show how you open it
It's not fun. You basically unbolt all of the bolts holding the top of the shell to the bottom of the shell, and then use a air chiseler to separate the two halves (they are sealed with some black gunk).
Do you want to sell any leaf modules. I need 3 or 6 for a 24 volt system for my electric riding mower.
+robviolin1 Sorry, I'm using them all myself in my S-10 conversion EV.
there not 10 mm bolts there 6 with a ten mm wrench
+mechanical madness mike Yes, you are correct, 6mm bolts that require a 10mm wrench.
hey just saying so peeps don't be confused good vid tho always wanted to see inside one of them
I think this might void the warranty tho.. not sure.
You are allowed to work on a car, swap out parts, etc yourself. The automakers can only refuse the honor their warranty coverage if they show that your work was the cause of the fault. (So, for example, if you swapped out a failing leaf battery module, they may be able to not honor a warranty claim if the BMS went bad, but would have a much harder time refusing to fix a failure in the motor or some other unrelated part of the auto.) Typically this is not an issue, as if the car is under warranty, you wouldn't be doing any work yourself.
I'd just cut out and change the connection then mount the whole thing on my wall to use as a home barrty
If you can find a charger/inverter that works with 400 volts DC that would work, but you may find that you will need to reconfigure the pack to a 24 or 48 volt system to work well with most off-grid / solar / inverter/charger systems.
Why did u disassemble?
I am using the battery modules for an s-10 conversion electric truck.
+Jay Summet an electric s-10? sound's amazing dude, do you think 48 modules are enough? Is it possible to double the amount of modules in order to increase the range?
+Eduard Ferenczi 24 kWh capacity is better than the current 20 golf cart batteries. I would need to re-weld the battery bays to fit twice as many modules in, and would probably need to put some of them up front.
I would like to get a leaf battery pack to put in an Rv basement.
Keep in mind that the modules are 8 volts each, so it's hard to make a 12 volt equivalent battery out of them. The easiest is a set of 3 in series for a 24 volt system. (Unless you have an inverter/charger that will operate at the native 400 volt level...)
Jay Summet I have 24 volt inverters,, what is the wattage on the whole pack. My Rv came with two deep cell batteries,. How much did you pay for the pack
Then you are probably good to go. Just keep in mind the absolute max voltage is 8.4 * 3 or 25.2 volts, so make sure your equipment doesn't try to charge it to lead acid levels or it will fry your modules. (I would limit charging to 24.6 volts, which is 4.1 volts per cell, 8.2 per module.)
Jay Summet okay, how much was the pack from a salvage yard?
I bought the whole car to get the pack, but you can probably get only a pack for 3 to 5 thousand.
Hey, Bert.
@ 5:33 😭🤣🤯
do you sell that?
No, This is the only one I've ever disassembled and the modules were used for my electric truck.
could you tell me where can I find this used packs? thanks
Auto salvage yards, disassemblers, salvage car auctions, etc. I bought my wrecked Nissan Leaf from copart.com, although you can buy just the battery pack if you call around.
Man, imagine getting into a car accident, rupturing those and dying from having to inhale the fumes off cooking batteries while your eyes burn out because you're trapped in the car? I'd say that's worse than getting trapped in a burning car.
All of the cells are sealed in a steel case outside of the passenger compartment. They are a heck of a lot safer than 12 gallons of gasoline catching fire.
+d7j6f1 If you look at my blog I'm posting a lot more information there. www.summet.com/blog/tag/leaf/
Jay Summet I know that much, but a steel case can easily be breached by either a sharp object or just be bent, rupturing the cells...all it takes to blow an 18650 is a hammer hit, then they emit a ton of toxic smoke and go boom?
+sc0tte1 Anything can explode with enough heat and oxygen, but gasoline is worse than the Leaf Batteries.
ruclips.net/video/xlKwDamHdDY/видео.html
4 years late, but you're a dumbass.
Yeah, but I am sure you never put it back together...
Д
Amateur
yes but he did it and made a very useful video of it. Your comment did nothing.