Lost Media, Disney's Crater, and Movies Made to Fail
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2023
- For years Lost Media has both fascinated and frightened thousands of interested internet patrons. Whether it be forgotten episodes of now-defunct cartoons, to entire films that have never been seen since their original broadcast, the mystique of lost media has a little something for everyone. But what if I told you that despite our best efforts at finding these lost relics of the past, the amount of lost media will only continue to grow in years to come? Join me as we discuss just that in the REAL horror of lost media.
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Twitter: Spaceman_Scott
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Credits:
Sound Design/Video Editing: Scott Thomas
Spaceman Scott Intro Animatic: Icaro Gabriel (Follow his Twitter at: @anicaromotion)
Art by Lexi Bristowe
Featuring the voice talents of Gabe Isaacs and Lexi Bristowe
Script Consultation by Lucy Fields, Maddie Rambissoon, & Nick Heilman
Special thanks to Orion Elrod
I’m testing your honor Scott. Like and pin this comment or I will dox you
Shouldn't this practice be illegal? Like, creating media only to cancel/remove it as a tax write off feels very illegal and almost like money laundering. Shouldn't the Federal government be getting involved in all this?
Stop being such a fed
the cia's black budget is like 100 billion dollars. bold of you to assume the federal government isn't also money laundering
Oh you sweet summer child who do you think is the undisputed king of money laundering 😂
i mean they don't _make_ money off it. they just don't have to pay taxes because it was a loss.
edit: that's not to say it's not scummy and awful. but i'm not sure how they could make it illegal. what if things like movies were required to be donated to the library of congress if they're removed from distribution?
It definitely feels like fraud at the very least
I've always been a firm believer that every film is someone's favorite film, for whatever reason. This ability to just delete years of work in an instant is just insane. And yeah, it sucks that we're living in a time where profit is the sole motivation for entertainment.
agreed.
8:21 so true 8:31
It's almost as burning books. Which is a bad sign. A very bad one
And sometimes a film is only the favourite film of its producer's accountants, and that's fine.
I did work for Crater and the news of its removal is devastating for me. It's one of the few things I've worked on that have genuinely moved me to tears. I effing love that movie and am glad I have a copy saved.
Good for you
I'm so sorry this happened. Despite the fact it was removed, you can't know how many people actually saw it, and it might have changed some lives in ways you won't see. But even the smallest actions of art and kindness can change the course of the future. so, thank you
Sure jan
I've noticed this is a practice online and quite frankly, it's so scary how much media companies are tossing out the window.
Remember kids, pirating from big companies is always morally correct.
agreed.
I'm a tax accountant (so prepare for me to get real off-topic in the weeds about this lol) and I got curious wtf tax write-off they were getting, since usually for tax purposes you'd write off expenses to produce/market/sell the movie (+ amortization probably, but not relevant here so I'm not gonna get into it). So I poked through their last SEC filing for fiscal year '23 (10/1/22 - 9/30/23) and they took a cool 2.6 billion in what's called impairment charges for what they so eloquently describe as a "strategic change in approach to content curation" (pft, sure, I guess). NOW that doesn't actually mean they get to write all that off on their taxes!
An impairment charge basically means you're saying "this thing I have is worth less than what it was listed as before, so it would be lying if we DIDN'T write the cost of it down" (note: you can't do this in the opposite direction and say your thing is worth more). Also important to know is that what they report to the SEC & the public is NOT the same as what they report to the IRS and are ultimately taxed on (financial vs tax reporting). So that 2.6 billion impairment charge is something that reduces their income on a financial basis and might affect their stock price but otherwise doesn't realllly do jack shit for them.
Now on a tax basis, the IRS doesn't let people take impairment charges willy-nilly and expect to be able to take a deduction for it, so their impairment rules are a little different. Instead of you saying "hey this thing is worth less than it was before and so I would like to report it as being worth less", the IRS requires COMPLETE DISPOSAL/ABANDONMENT of the underlying asset. Aka you don't get to impair shit unless you say that thing is completely worthless to you and kick it to the curb.
SO OF COURSE, WHAT DOES DISNEY DO? Sneaky bastards, they just start wiping shit from the platform and are counting that as abandonment and THAT'S how they're able to write this off their taxes (benefit to them is gonna be 2.6 billion times whatever their tax rate is, so not one-to-one 2.6 billion back but still what we in the business refer to as a shit ton of money). Mega corporations are incapable of looking at a tax law without finding some way to exploit and get around it, to the surprise of no one.
tl;dr - IRS has a rule that you can't just claim your stuff is worth less and expect to pay less tax unless you commit and actually get rid of it, disney goes "okay bet" and gets rid of their stuff, now disney gets to pay less taxes and that's why they're wiping movies off the platform entirely instead of allowing them to exist anywhere else.
Anyway, sorry for talking way too much about taxes on your fun media analysis video!
Cool as hell interesting comment ‼️‼️‼️
Thank you, this really helped me understand!
I really appreciate this comment, because I know very little about economics and business, so I was just left wondering why Disney couldn't just leave it on their platform, "surely and can't be that expensive," I thought. But this makes a lot of sense for explaining why they'd decide to just remove it entirely.
not technically a fully lost media situation but i remember when infinity train was pulled from everything despite it trending for over a month on twitter when that mattered and people begging for more seasons to be made. Then all the dvd sets were sold out immediately because people wanted to make sure theyd be able to still watch it. even if the show is popular the company can decide that its not part of their brand and decide to get rid of it which is really messed up to me
So true😢
Edit: I meant true
Never heard of Crater but I do think all media should be best preserved the best they can
agreed.
As a film major who’s really passionate about this topic this is probably one of the best video essays I’ve seen on it, thank you for talking about it!
agreed.
Reminds me how the only way I can watch Megas XLR in the US, a really fun cartoon from back in the day, is by pirating it because it was written off by Cartoon Network. No toys were made, no DVD releases, not even reran on television anymore. These companies have been doing this even before streaming, and the fact it's legal to do it is sickening.
True
This is why I still buy DVDs and Blu-Rays of my favourite films and shows.
Agreed.
Also I am going buy dvds of my favorite movies in the future when I am independent
I’m still waiting on my “I script consulted this white boy” sticker, Scott
True
They did also used to actually put most things out on DVD/Bluray, which meant no matter what happened to the rights or whatever, you still had it. Barely any of these streaming shows and movies get home media releases, which makes piracy the *only* option a lot more often than it used to be.
It's like with gaming in the last years. That "You gotta get used to not owning the games" shit... It's basically the same with gaming stream services and digital copies. One little error, your console breaking or not enough money or some bad decision from a company, and your game is non accesible even after you paid for it...
What’s worse about lost media is that behind it is an industry that is built upon the most passionate, creative, and talented individuals working for the greedy corporate elite that only seeks to drive a profit.
If the SAG strikes have showed us anything is that art cannot exist for art’s sake and must generate some money even at the expense of the minds who produce it.
Agreed.
And once again, the terror and awe of our collective imaginations is dwarfed by the depressing reality of wholly unimaginative business execs.
Sobering sentiments aside, this is just another battlefield for SAG and WGA to make sure they try and at least keep pace with the monsters that sign their paychecks. Even if the fight is fought far from our view, it will be fought nonetheless. We can at least continue to show our support of such entities for as long as they fight
Agreed.
What really bugs me about things like Crater is that a lot of really beloved movies were massive commercial flops in their time and had to claw back over the decades, first becoming cult classics and, eventually, growing into genuine classics in their own right. Now I'm not especially inclined to think Crater would have taken that path, but it's tragic to imagine it and all the movies like it that might never get that chance.
Agreed.
Yeah, like it's honestly so depressing that, with the current trend toward nuking anything that isn't a mega blockbuster, we'll probably never get another Rocky Horror Picture Show again, not unless the winds change.
This whole movies as a tax write off thing just makes me sure that a) I have no fucking idea how taxes work and b) capitalism is a scam only the rich are truly capable of benefiting from.
The cast and crew who worked on that film were productive and got paid to make something nobody is going to look at, like every electrician and plumber ever. This kept a few dozen/ hundred people off of welfare/food stamps for a few weeks/ months/ years. If keeping the worst people and most useless people in society off the dole isn't worth a kickback from the government I don't know what is.
Edit. This point was addressed halfway through the video. I stand by it. Before home video release movies were seen when they were in theaters and never again. Plays are seen that night by those present and nobody else. We don't have a right to every frame captured on camera ever. We just like it.
same, tax write offs still seem so much like fraud on a tolerated level, like I hear several people talk about "can you recommend me 'insert equipment here'", "my father works in 'this field' and he can write this off with his taxes" just seems to weird to me, you buy an expensive camera or such, and can just say, "yeah that's for work purposes", but in reality your child gets it as a present.
Yep.
fantastic video! i hate this new practice of canning movies just because of tax write offs, it's so scummy and frustrating
Agreed.
Pretty much the same thing is happening to video games, comics, and... products in general, honestly.
I think the best thing to do is to figure out a way to make the people in control realize that preservation can, in fact, be profitable, while also ensuring that they never have full control over how it's done - so that the people who actually give a shit can work in peace.
We also need to culturally make a looooot of people understand that those who pirate movies or games or comics don't do just so they can have something for free. That way, it'll make it easier to have less opposition towards it, since "stealing is objectively bad" is the prevalent idea corporations make use of to prevent underground preservation work to be supported.
The "how" is the truly hard part. There would need to be a large-scale, meticulous study of any country in which such steps can be taken, to make sure the economic and cultural landscape of each individual place is understood, and then used in favor of the media preservation effort.
Tl;dr: it's gonna be hard and complicated.
Oh, and hi Scott! Your bisexual-lookin' thirst humor bits have been making me laugh since the Undertale/FNAF video😂 Always catches me off-guard, _love_ to see it. XD
Thanks for anyone who bothered to read all this, btw. Y'all take care, yeah?
agreed.
Companies nowadays are only focused on creating brands. It's why we see sequels and reboots consistently. It's easier to create something that people remember liking back in the day and making easy money from nostalgia than it is to create something new. I believe that once Disney saw Crater wouldn't be something to easily create a sequel too, they decided to close up shop and remove it. But now, I wonder if we'll see something Crater adjacent in the future
Honestly I blame the writers more than anything. The writers have gotten far worse but demand better treatment.
Thank you for making this Scott
Same
Eyyyyy a fellow Less is Morgue fan!
But yeah, seeing people’s passion projects being unceremoniously wiped from existence is both heartbreaking and infuriating. And it’s always the ones with the most passionate people behind them! Always! Coyote vs. Acme, Popeye, Infinity Train, Final Space, so many projects with so much love behind them, all up in smoke just to make some sleazebag shareholders a quick buck. I think you’re spot on with how the backlash to Crater’s removal will set a precedent for future write offs. This really is one of the worse time lines.
so happy you're back!!
Thanks for all the hard work you do! This was a great video. :D
thx scott, rly enjoy ur content
mega interesting stuff, thank you for putting it all together!! 100% subscribed
my dad and i were just trying to watch squibillies the other day on hbo max and apparently over the summer they got rid of it (except the 13th season????) possibly to sell it to paramount. there are dvds available, but they're super expensive :( shit sucks man. ig the old adult swim cartoons weren't making enough them money anymore?
i've been binging your videos for a bit while playin games and thank you so much for making this video. where i live and the people i surround myself with are always unconcerned for the sanctity of media and human art, and i feel like im losing my mind because no one seems to care. its unfortunate this video hasnt been seen by more eyes but id say its a great one from you, and highly appreciated
16:09 seeing virgina grohl's movie there felt like a gut punch. Like, not even rockstars or their parents are safe from being deleted ://
Same here
Another great Spaceman Scott video, kinda mad RUclips didn't notify me about the upload but happy i found it anyways,
Hope you have a great Night/Day and can't wait for the next one!!!
Isn't this literally the plot of The Producers
i just found your channel today and i’ve pretty much finished all of your videos hahaha your work is amazing dude keep it up
So many films, video games, TV shows, ETC. that have found such great success today, were BOMBS when they first released, performing terribly at first, but eventually became classics years later. In a world were media is ERASED from existence if it doesn't come out the gate SWINGING, and outperforms expectations within the blink of an eye, how can media possibly ever find it's audience without getting extremely, astronomically lucky?
you deserve way more subs man
Words cannot express how horrifying all of this is to me.
Disney just can't help make the Seven Seas a better option huh.
I've no interest in the movie but to the right kid at the right time it could be Their Thing that gets them interested in space or gives them comfort at a very dark time. They won't be able to have a copy to reference unless it's illegal, much like my old VHS of Flight of the Navigator.
Edit: shoulda watched the whole thing before commenting. Point still stands though.
I really like your videos, my dude
Agreed
Thank you for all the hard work put into this
New sub and I'm binge watching.🎉
You're right about the algorithm suppressing this because I love lost media content and I'm subbed. Glad you mad the community post cause I would've missed it
I’m not even close to a video games guy but I’ve watched your video games-related videos multiple times because of how great they are. And then somehow when you make a video that would normally be more appealing to me, RUclips takes 3 months to recommend it! Great video though.
I saw Crater on Prime after its removal from Disney plus.
It isn't so bad.
I got an ad for Disney’s Wish and that isn’t lost on me. Anyways, the appeal to me of lost media has always been unfortunately a soul crushing reason, knowing someone’s or some groups hard work has gone to waste is genuinely heartbreaking. The fact it will get worse due to executive’s capitalist decisions, is just so damn bleak. People being scared of taking risks is a horrible thing! Media can’t evolve without taking risks! But intentionally removing something, having backlash to said removal, and then restoring it yet STILL making money off of the new attention? Gosh it’s just… really scummy. The only person who loses in the situation is the audience and the crew who worked on the project, or wanted to work on the project. It’s going to discourage new creators from literally creating anything, and that’s the worst thing you can possibly do to a human. (There’s also something to be said of ‘sunk cost fallacy’ with projects stuck in development hell but that’s a whole other conservation I think).
This is amazing "further reading" content for Jacob Geller's "How Can We Bear to Throw Anything Away?"
Stg didn’t know you posted this. Ig i should look at my subs feed more.
Criminally underrated content.
seeing another hi im chris fan is what made me subscribe, yk... other than the amazing content
A good video! It's my first time seeing my own username on a patreon list! Not over your voice. Seriously, smooth as butter 😳 LOL
No, but you make some good points. It sucks that media is at the whim of the corporate overlords. And the whole tax write-off is SO ugly.
god i missed that smooth scott-like voice
Spaceman Scoot video is nice to see
Maybe someone should just download this video. Just in case. JUST in case.
Good idea
You make good videos sir
People always say physical media is dead, in both movies and gaming, which is always odd to me considering we literally got confirmation from the Insomniac Hacked info that 60% of the sales are still on disc.
I think if you create art and share it with the world it should be forced into the public domain if you refuse to provide a means for people to access it.
Good Video.
good video
A future type of lost media - RUclipsr sponsor ads. Many youtubers have unique ads that will eventually disappear once their channels go away.
Good video
19:36 outro music (gum)
Reminds me of those lost classic Doctor Who episodes that were found in 2014.
Wtf. This quality is too good like an industry plant.
My guy!
The unexpected Glup Shitto reference had me laugh out loud.
The biggest one to me was the removal of the Swamp Thing show from HBO max. Danged WB for making a really good horror series and then just poof, its gone.
My god
My man!
this is genuinely terrifying. This needs to stop. these massive companies need to change or fall, because the direction we're going is toxic.
I think another insidious aspect of this is that if a piece of media is taken off streaming, the writers and actors aren’t going to get the residuals. You know, The residuals that were a huge talking point of the biggest Hollywood strike in years that just finished up? It feels like such a middle finger to everything SAG and WGA worked to get.
It's so terrifying to think I could make someone just for it to be gone in a week
I feel like a good middle ground for both tax purposes and archival ability would be that media can be written off, but for it to be tax deductible it must be placed in some sort of publicly accessible third party. So Crater could be removed from Disney+, but to get a tax write off for it they would need to give it to a form of PBS so that people can watch it as they please.This entity could be funded by either advertisements ran during the playback similar to how many cable or RUclips channels run, or a tax could be levied against the studios to take care of the cost of maintaining the site and its growing data storage needs. The only downside I can see here is I feel like some companies would rather watch the money burn that release product for free.
My boy!
A similar thing happened to two favorite shows of mine
please give their names
@@yellowstarproductions6743 I dont know why I said two(either lack of sleep or because its an anthology) but Infinity Train was taken off HBO Max for like no reason
@@yellowstarproductions6743 Although it is still available for purchase by buying each season, its also not guranteed it will be available forever
My elder!
Idk why but when you said "by design" my brain decided u sounded like will grahm XD
17:09 - Hi Doggy.
Coming off a "Spongebob Boyz" backlog binge and being greeted with a Less Is Morgue character was a proper jumpscare. Small world, ey? Cheers, Sco- wait a fucking second I looked into it further and apparently "Scott Thomas" (whoever that is) was on the writers' team for that. FUCKING ALGORITHM bringing me to both channels seemingly completely independently (you first from the FNAF v Undertale breakdown, something I have a general interest in, and Gus's-channel-of-varying-name second off the back of Hiding in Private's Lily Orchard takedown which led me to Gus's "Two Professional Writers" one). Originally, I was going to make a comment about this being an "artificially small world" but the events happening in that order belay no obvious algorithmic tampering. The algorithm was recommending the Gus-channel video rather incessantly though and I ignored it thinking it was potentially just going to be in the "rantsona owners uncritically clowning on the Internet's villain of the week" genre (fear was unfounded) so I suppose that goes some way to explaining this.
Hope this anecdote was of at least some interest. Cheers, Scott, for another great video.
i dident even know this movie came out
I recently played through a bizarre japanese point and click horror game from 1999, called "Garage: Bad Dream Adventure"
I found out about it from a video, which explained that it only had 3000 copies made because the publisher pulled out at the 11th hour. It took years for people in the west to discover the game and track down a copy, and it got a fan translation in 2019(?), which likely is the reason it wss remastered for mobile and steam in 2021
It is an unbelievably uncomfortable and strange game, an unforgettable experience.
Who knows what kind of obscure oddities have been pulled from online storefronts, never to be seen again
HI Scott- I agree with the point of your video and think its BS that disney removed The Crater from disney plus, but I just wanted to point out that the Crater is still available elsewhere (amazon, youtube etc.) for rental/purchase- so not really lost in the same way other media is. Just thought it should be pointed out since it's the primary example in your video.
he points that out at the end of the video
Here's something you can do: ARCHIVE MEDIA by digital AND physical means
and remember to UPDATE YOUR PHYSICAL COPIES. VHS tapes can and will wear out and become unusable over time
remember kids: the digitization is part of how lost media restoration is only going to get harder. they can't come and take your legally-purchased DVD of Disney's Atlantis, but they CAN wipe Crater from the face of the earth because its sole release was under their impenetrable control, the ability to permanently bar any and all access to it at their green-stained fingertips.
my grandpa used to burn CDs and DVDs for my family back in the day, and it scares me to think we could be in possession of one of the final few copies of any movie, some of the only evidence that it was EVER made-- etched illegally onto a small round disk with some Sharpie writing on it.
Crater is whatever, what riles me off is that they've been doing that to the already released animation works, like Infinity Train. It got _three_ season renevals before disappearing off the streaming services and any mention of it getting stripped from the web. To the point that the _creator of the show_ went "Yeah, if you wanna watch it - go pirate it".
I just, I just can't comprehend the logic in all of this. How is shelfing a product you've ALREADY SPEND MONEY ON, is supposed to save you money? How does that writes off taxes?
It is perhaps not the height of the inhumanity, but very close to it. Corporations are not your friends, they aren't even tolerable, they are your **enemy.**
Its so sad that these movies and shows are purged out of exsistence just bc they basically bombed their 'opening weekends'
Some movies need time to become cult classics, hell, megamind bombed when it was first released and now almost 15 years later its a cult classic and beloved by many!
Its so annoying that if something instantly popular, it gets purged or canceled
I'm gonna watch crater now
I remember having to burn down a homeless shelter every time I wanted to use my TiVo.
On the "but the actors, staffers, etc got paid" note it's also worth pointing out that Hollywood tends to operate on residuals...lower upfront payment with the potential of enduring payments years and decades after release.
Sure, if viewing was way down enough it's likely the views/monetization may never have reached the levels where residuals would kick in. However, you never know if a "Lost Gems" list may have resulted in a movie like Crater getting the sort of belated attention and views that would allow its participants to make some extra money a la Scott Pilgrim. This could lead to an uncomfortable precedent that makes actors, FX artists, etc. even less likely to take a risk on certain types of projects.
I'm glad Crater was brought back but to your point, not everything else will have the same fate.
why THE FUCK does this not have like a million views? this is damn good :)
its not
BBC Legal have a record going back to the 80s of suing people who had lost episodes which they supplied, for free, to BBC Entertainment (not Who - I think they know they'd be dragged into the street if they did something stupid with someone giving them a lost story segment of an equally lost series)
20 years of hard labor before retirement? That's just military service. If you make it that long.
This is why physical media should stay, if Carter come out on Disney plus and also Blu-ray in the same time in first place Then it not lost media . Streaming ruin everything and damn the executive !
Man, why's it always man-made horrors wrought by greed? Can't we have one minor esoteric problem be caused by the Cult of Pazuzu or something?
This is why I am a Kopimist.
Cater? I barely even know her!
Untill next time bro insert video outro here
Infinity Train🙁
Anyone else miss The World according to jeff golblum?
I. Swear. To. FUCKING. Satan. If Netflix betrays Oda in anyway and this happens to one piece…. I. Will. Riot.
yeah here's what we can do about it: unsub from d1sn3y and/or consolidate: have watch parties at friend's houses, share accounts in households, and don't mindlessly consume content on there when you Are logged in. let them suffer, forcing them to change or go under. someone will pick up the pieces and continue where they lost if they fall. we are the consumers. we are the people who help them get their bills paid. we feel helpless but we do actually still have power.
keep talking about this stuff. spread awareness. post on social media about it and call people to answer for their actions. it's just ripples. but it builds up. it makes a difference over time. so start throwing pebbles, we may yet be able to fix things.
pibby is now lost medias??!!!!??
I never understood the mentality that "stream site owns product so they can remove its existence if they wish". To me that's like saying "oh yeah I bought the mona Lisa, so now I can burn it if I want cuz it's not yours and never was." Sure it's true, you do own it, but you are removing other people's right to this piece of art
even though i havent watched crater i can definitely empathize witht this fuckin bullshit. Netflix removed the middle 2 seasons of my favorite childhood TV Show, Octonauts recently.
Our streaming overlords granted us mercy by delaying the removal by 2 days!! not because the small but undying fanbase wrote them letters or started petitions, or complained to the internet, but because a popular RUclipsr made a video about it the day before. JUST AS THE FANDOM STARTED GAINING MORE MAINSTREAM TRACTION FROM AMERICAN AUDIENCES. (this shiw also just so happens to have some of the best subtle disability and nurodivergent representation in any kids show let alone adult ahow, + soft confirmation from a writer on twitter that one if the charachter may be trans. completely unrelated im sure.
To be fair and honest tho, this removal was because the BBC bought the distribution rights. its still fucking stupid because the entire franchise was perfectly fine on Netflix.
But now season 1 and 2 of the american dub and the spinoffs are all on netflix, seasons 3 and 4 are only available in the UK, and the english version of season 5 has been delayed since 2020, and the full season is only available in Chinese, and is region locked as well. its just a mess man
i might be an edge case though.