The formula to determine the maximum % to hit vex provides (it will start at the non-advantage % and work it's way towards this number) is x/(x+(1-x^2)) where X=% to hit without advantage. Thanks to MathguyDave for the formula. For a 60% to hit, Vex will eventually increase that % to 79% (or just below).
Dang, beat to the punch. I will add, though, that you can find your average chance to hit, given a 4 round baseline. Our chance to hit starts low and increases over time, meaning the more attacks per round we get, the less the first couple crappy hits matter. The average chance to hit over: 8 attacks = 75.8% 12 attacks = 76.8% 16 attacks = 77.3% However, if you give yourself advantage on the first attack through a different means, it bumps your 8 attack average up to 78.7% which is essentially the cap. You get very very small increases as you increase to 12 or 16 attacks. So with a single use of advantage and vex, you essentially go from 60% to 80% during an entire combat.
@@erikskaug9952 If you start with advantage on your first attack your average to hit chance over the first n attacks should be above 15/19=79% and decay down towards that number as n increases (eg when n=1 you get 84%)
Another modification to Cleave mite be to give it to weapons with the Heavy and Reach properties and turn the attack into a cone shape and make attack roles to every creature in the cone
Curses, went into the math before reading the comments. Can I still get half a point for the neat spreadsheet I made? docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B3pEs9C_KUhKypJ14Z-h6QkIpIsbqehNvRA3eG1jpa8/edit?usp=sharing
For Flex, I agree with exchanging it with something else like a +1 AC One-handed and D12 damage Two-handed as it makes the weapon much more "Versatile"
I think the Slow damage qualifier is a thematic/flavor choice. Someone is slowed because their leg or foot takes damage. If they are immune to the damage, then there is nothing slowing them. But a creature being shoved can still be moved even when not taking damage, your weapon can still cleave and keep moving even if the creature takes no damage, etc.
I really like the AC suggestion for versatile. Part of picking the Sword and board is being willing to sacrifice damage to feel invincible and that sure helps the feeling.
What if Flex weapons allowed you to use your Reaction to attempt to disarm a creature? Capitalizing on the sword and board gladiator concept. Maybe make it a bit like Monk where you reduce damage, and disarm if it goes to 0
@@AnaseSkyrider I'd prefer it if the Disarm action just became a standard action, rather than an optional one. Cited below, so you don't have to look it up in the DMG. *Disarm* A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target’s grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item. The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
@@probablythedm1669 I knew the DMG version. But here's the thing, you have Topple and Push which are both doing other actions, functionally speaking. So why can't there be a disarm?
The issue with that being that +1 to AC is very powerful. Combine this with Defence fighting style and you have a total of +4AC potentially at game start. If we wanted to overdo this we could now go for a Warforged that adds another +1 to AC. Let's say our character is a fighter wearing heavy armor. This already bumped the fighter's AC to 21. At level 1. And the "+2 AC while wielding a versatile weapon with two hands" is mechanically the same thing as using the higher damage die when wielding the weapon with just one hand, though it is of course cooler thematically.
Vex has 2 more limitations: Firstly it resets every time you need to switch targets for whatever reason, and secondly it obviously doesn't add further value to any attacks that would've had advantage anyway, perhaps because the target was restrained or knocked prone by a party member for example. So I think it's nicely balanced for the specific use-case of being highly specialised at focussing down one particular target while offering little value to clearing up the lesser mooks and benefitting less from other sources of advantage.
It also stalls out if you need to switch weapon. If you try to dual-wield, you can't make use of Nick and Vex unless you want to reset your Vex every turn. The light/finesse requirement for melee weapons also loses you a smidge of damage. I'm curious about how people will make use of its interaction with spells. It grants advantage on your next attack roll, it doesn't specify weapon attack roll. I don't know any spells that could really take advantage of this and it does end Vex but it could lead to some interesting combos where it acts as True Strike with better action economy. Best I can come up with is the following: Turn 1 - shoot creature 1, get vex on it Turn 2 - shoot creature 2 within 10ft. of creature 1, get vex on it (you can maintain vex against multiple creatures), bonus action dump a Blade of Disaster between them and attack both creatures with advantage, ending Vex.
I ran some quick excel numbers. You average to-hit benefit statistically stabilizes by the third attack. For example, a 65% chance to hit becomes 79.7% on the second attack, 83.2% on the third, and only gets to 84.1% by the 9th. Below is the hit rate on the first, second, and third+ attacks using Vex at different to-hit odds: 10% --> 11% --> 11% 20% --> 23% --> 24% 30% --> 36% --> 38% 40% --> 50% --> 52% 50% --> 63% --> 66% 60% --> 74% --> 78% 65% --> 80% --> 83% 70% --> 85% --> 88% 75% --> 89% --> 92% 80% --> 93% --> 95% 90% --> 98% --> 99% To me this looks like Vex is worth on average a +2.5 to +3 to hit. (0 bonus on first attack, +3 on attack two, +3.5 on attack 3 and beyond).
@@ovbrook3057 This is also assuming you're fighting one big thing (which usually has bigger AC). The moment you're attacking a different enemy you're back to square one. So in boss fights this will do well and you can fairly consistently keep your advantage ball rolling. But in a multiple enemy encounter you suffer way more. Archery is consistent vex isn't.
Dude the Warlock changes make me so sad. All they had to do was make EB a class feature with built in scaling, make it so a lot of the spell selection invocations let you cast them once for free, and maybe give them more spell slots. The way I would have done it is a number of slots per day equal to proficiency bonus and then once per day when you finish a short rest you get all your slots back similar to Arcane Recovery.
I have mixed fellings about the Warlock. The idea for the Pact Boon class feature is ok. But I felt that must be an upgrade at 11th level at least for the pact cantrips. And with so many spells per day and the same amount of spells know and fewer levels of spells, the invocations that reproduce utility spells effects at will like Mask of Many Faces and many others has no use. Mystic Arcanum Invocation need to let you choose two spells and cast only one of them per long rest. I Felt with my build that you dont have the same versatility like the older version.
@@diegonunesnl I love the new warlock, it is such a huge improvement, fixing pretty much all the issues with the old warlock. You are wrong though on one thing, warlocks get LOT more spells known now, because they add all their patron spells to their spells known.
I think the wording of "and deal damage" for Slow and Vex are there for monks and Deflect Missiles. With the exception of Push on Heavy Crossbows, all ranged weapons have either Slow or Vex, and getting hit but taking no damage is certainly something that can happen with monks. I know if I were playing a monk, getting slowed or someone getting advantage on me after I took no damage from the attack, it'd feel pretty crappy.
The only other Mastery's that apply to possible missiles are for thrown weapons, which can have Nick (dagger, light hammer), which if I'm understanding things right, would not be able to be applied to a thrown attack anyway, and Topple (trident), which similar to the push of the Heavy Crossbow, leans into a flavor of a monk being able to possibly catch it for no damage, but being affected by the momentum of the attack.
@@spiderwrangler4457 current monk deflect missiles allows you to deflect it so if you are a weapon user (kensei monk for example) you can swing at the projectile and parry it or split it in two if it is an arrow it should not affect me if i negate the attack so the damage rider is pretty cool
@@finalfantasy50 right, the wording of deflect missiles (currently) considers you to be hit by the attack, because that's only when you can use it, but there's a good chance you can reduce the damage to zero, in which case you ought not to be Slowed or Vexed. Removing the damage requirement would make them apply regardless of if you catch/parry the projectile or not, as you're still considered to be hit, just for 0 damage.
If this is true, the efficient fix is to add a "masteries don't affect you if you reduce the damage to zero" rule in the Deflect Missiles feature, where only monks have to care about it, rather than adding a weird condition to the general masteries that affect whole swathes of characters.
@@CubaLibre200X Not if they WANT Push and Topple to be able to affect monks, even if they reduce it to zero. Also, not sure that making it a special thing on Deflect Missiles is cleaner, it doesn't really get in the way on the Masteries, it just reads like an odd extra redundant bit in most cases.
The biggest shocker is to learn that you don’t have a formal education in statistics. You have such an analytical mind, I thought « this guy is a math guy for sure! »
To be fair opening a decent textbook intended for stats 101, can get you really far in 90% of situations where statistics might be needed. And weighing hypothetical options A vs B in character building is often not reliant on any statistics knowledge, just arithmetic.
Another thing with the light weapon property is it has an issue with thrown weapons. You can use the two weapon fighting like pre-playtest with a thrown weapon, but you can still have a shield. If you make the condition that they need to be held in both hands then you can’t throw a weapon using the light weapon property. I think maybe they should just grab the wording for two weapon fighting and put it into light lol.
This might also be a way to update the thrown weapon fighting style. As if the play test, it only really applies +2 damage, but if you allowed it throw an additional thrown weapon as a bonus action it gives it relevance. But I’d rather see true dual wielding be raised up, its too cool to be sidelined by these unintended consequences.
What about adding something like "When you start your turn wielding a weapon in each hand ..." to the start of the Light weapon property? Then you could throw a weapon later without losing the benefit.
@@nevertoonate Good point! I wonder if the DND designers also work on MTG. Because all these rules read like they're intended to fit on a card, and any wonky interactions are considered "emergent play" rewards for rules lawyers rather than attempting to make rules that make sense
Cleave could have been something like "If you hit a creature with a melee attack using this weapon, you can make additional attacks with the weapon against creatures within 5ft of each new target and that is also within your reach. You may only attack each additional creature once in this way per turn." That way you get more targets but you still keep the fantasy of the sword swing carrying through in one direction since you can't choose the target to the left of the original target if you've already chosen the target on the right.
The other thing is: I don´t see the second attack being independent of the ability modifier. I mean, a guy with 10 STR and a guy with a belt of storm giant strength both are cleaving ... and their secondary hit is just the same? Breaks imagination for me. The "old" cleaving mechanic I remember from AD&D games like Pool of Radiance where cleaving was like an attack chain / killstreak against close-range enemies with inferior hit dice felt so much more convincing. You didn´t cleave giants but wiped out goblins.
@@TheCobraCom I think the idea is that the swing will have lost a lot of power/momentum after already having hit the 1st target. Like if I try to slap 2 people with one swing, the first person I hit is definitely going to be hurting more
I think for cleave, you should use the same attack roll and just see if it also hits the new target. That saves time at the table and makes it more likely for the cleave attack to hit bc your attack roll was at least high enough to hit your initial target
And allow you to hit a number of targets equal to your STR mod (min 1) within a given turn; doesn't have to be all at once, but can also be used over multiple cleaves per turn.
@@RobKinneySouthpaw That's almost the same as the Cleaving Through optional rule from the DMG except that one only applies after a target goes to 0 HP and applies the excess damage to the next target. The DMG one is probably less effective overall due to higher HP mobs.
Vex plus spell attacks would be crazy. It just says attack roll, not with this weapon or weapon attack roll. I have a homebrew scag cantrip that gives the next attack against the creature advantage. I quite like it, and use it a lot on my Artificer. It also helps me set up attacks for others, like the paladin.
Yeah it just COMPLETELY invalidates True Strike doesn't it. Even cases like Inflict Wounds or Plane Shift where you can't just "attack twice" because it's a leveled spell, it's better to get that advantage with Vex than with a concentration cantrip.
The thing I think folks are missing about flex is that your character can also now wield a shield, improving their ac with this mastery. Also it means characters that need a hand free for casting or something can now still benefit.
Flex needs to be compared to non-Flex 1h weapons, though. Without factoring in Fighter changing Masteries, you can have Topple, Sap, or Vex with d8 one handed weapons. Vex is probably more damage, and the others offer some decent control, for a very small price. I also think Treantmonk is right that Flex also has an issue in that it means Versatile weapons into *only* 1h weapons, and no longer worthwhile with two hands. If Flex was a small damage perk, perhaps about twice as good as it is now, about half as good as Graze (current Flex is about 1/4th of Graze), and worked with both 1h and 2h styles of the weapon, that'd be perfect.
Hey TM. Have you noticed Push doesn’t have the “horizontal” rider, meaning you could keep tossing enemies of certain sizes up in the air, landing prone for a d6 falling damage, every attack? I think that needs a change too.
I think the "away from you" mostly covers that. The only edge case would be a halfling warrior wielding A great club running under their enemies and launching them to the air with every attack, because halfling can enter hostile creatures square. And I think that's fine.
@@PiiskaJesusFreak This is so funny lol just a lil dude running around kicking things in the nuts making them jump up cartoon style. It's so looney tunes and I'm all here for that haha.
@@PiiskaJesusFreak the thing is, a lot of push based mechanics specify “horizontally” (like say, Repelling Blast) because up still counts as away from you and the thought it the designers don’t want free fall damage and prone condition (considering Topple is just prone and has a CON save). As for narrative, I can definitely see someone driving their pike into a baddie, turning around and putting the pike over their shoulder and using it as a fulcrum to launch them into the sky. Always ways to justify the mechanics in the fiction :)
The problem with Vex is that it creates high variance turns. Sometimes Vex will snowball. On the other hand, a lot of party synergies give advantage, in which case it may do nothing.
Thanks Chris! For Nick, my suggestion would be if you are weilding two weapons with the nick property, you can get your bonus action attack as well as the bonus attack with your attack action, effectively giving you 3 attacks because you are using 2 nick weapons
if you read nick it says "you can still only make this bonus attack once per round" so either use it as part of the action or bonus action i dont know if it is clear that you can use masteries as a non warrior (can rogue with a dagger use nick?)
I’ve been writing revised versions of these traits alongside some new ones, and here’s a solution for ways to make things streamlined and interactive: Topple and Push only force a Saving Throw to a single target after the Attack Action. HOWEVER, if the target took damage from multiple hits, they get disadvantage to the save. Grazing is good and can be emphasized more, representing chipping away. Light weapons getting graze can really give part of that fantasy, but with the catch of still being based on strength. The extra catch could be making Heavy Armor characters immune to grazing damage while medium armor resists it. Grazing can represent other kinds of strain, such as a sandstorm or the splash of bombs.
So a potential stupid thing you could do with these rules is if you have polearm master and extra attack you could 1) use the first attack of your attack action with a glaive from a distance (potentially using cleave to attack with it a second time) then unequip your glaive after attacking with it 2) draw and throw a handaxe for your extra attack to have attacked with a light weapon 3) use the nick property of a dagger to draw and throw it then reequip your glaive (because the thrown property allows you to draw the thrown weapon for free with out using the 1 equip or unequip per weapon attack) 4) and then as your bonus action make the pommel strike with your glaive in addition if you don't need/ couldn't use the cleave property you could swap out the glaive for a lance for a little extra damage and the push property so that you don't have to make the first attack from a distance and possibly even use the polearm master reaction to attack on that enemy if they move back towards you
My fix to Cleave would be to replace it with the optional rule Cleaving Through Creatures (DMG p. 272): "When a melee attack reduces an undamaged creature to 0 hit points, any excess damage from that attack might carry over to another creature nearby. The attacker targets another creature within reach and, if the original attack roll can hit it, applies any remaining damage to it. If that creature was undamaged and is likewise reduced to 0 hit points, repeat this process, carrying over the remaining damage until there are no valid targets, or until the damage carried over fails to reduce an undamaged creature to 0 hit points." It's very smooth to implement as it doesn't require any additional rolls, yet is very satisfying as it avoids the usual waste of excess damage when fighting multiple enemies.
As I've been preparing for a playtest, I noticed the same problem with wielding two nick weapons, especially the same weapon. Wielding duplicate weapons makes a lot of sense too because you're limited on your number of weapons you've mastered, so taking two DIFFERENT light weapons eats up two masteries. As a fix, I really like the idea of a small amount of extra damage that you mentioned. And it goes along with the name "nick".
Love the analysis! When I heard the AC +1/+2 suggestion for Flex I had to smile I came up with the same solution myself. One thing to keep in mind for Topple is that it can be very selfish. If you character knocks someone prone on your 1st attack, then you get advantage for you remaining attacks. However, the ranged characters in your party will all get disadvantage on their attacks if they act before the target get back on their feet. This has happened to me several times in a campaign where I played a ranged Warlock and we had a Battle Master in our party. Can be very frustrating...
Conversely, in a party with a bunch of Crossbow Experts (no disadvantage for being adjacent), Paladins and Rogues, knocking prone can be a very friendly thing to be doing.
For Flex you already can get the +2 to AC. Just have a shield equipped already. Now you can swing your Longsword with one hand dealing the extra damage and have the increased AC from having a shield equipped. So that is +1 on damage dice and +2 to your AC.
@@eraz0rhead Yeah there is that possibility. but there is a chance of finding a +X shield. Though if you do go the dueling route that is a guaranteed +2 and you aren't dependent on the DM giving you the +X shield. Good point.
@@targetdreamer257 I wonder if Flex could be something like "when used in 1 hand, use the larger die. When used with 2 hands get +1 damage and +1 AC" Not enough damage in 2 hands to overshadow actual 2 handers.. and not enough AC to eliminate sword and board as a style.. but a little of both.
Another part about the slow feature might be that if they want to give monk to have access to the weapon masteries they are likely to be applied to their unarmed strike, in which case they may not want it to stack with some of the new unarmed strike features.
Wanted to pop in and say thanks for the huge amount of content you've been putting out. I consume a lot of audio (about 50 hours a week) and it's always nice to see a video of yours pop up in my feed.
About Cleave: it should only require that all the creatures you attack are within your reach (described as using the momentum of a heavy weapon to create a huge arc). Also... they should think about giving the ability to choose to make more than one cleave attack (one after each attack) per turn if you do all your cleaves with disadvantage that turn (you have to chose before the roll for the first cleave). That way it doesn't get out of control, but it adds some flexibility: a fighter would have a way to deal with a group of wolves, or velociraptors (creatures that have low ac, but deal a great amount of damage if they're in large numbers).
It's awesome to have a thorough breakdown of these Weapon Masteries! I really Weapon Masteries as a game mechanic but I want to be able to give good feedback so that they are implemented just right and we don't see the same 1 or 2 getting picked constantly.
Oh! Also, regarding the Light weapon property and equipping: The Extra Attack feature doesn't allow you take additional Attack Actions, rather it allows you to make multiple attacks with your one Attack Action. So I would say the intent is that you can equip OR unequip once per Attack Action, regardless of however many attacks you can make with it.
When monk comes out I really want to see a mechanic where they can apply the effects of a magical weapon to their unarmed strikes to go along with the weapon mastery changes I'm assuming they'll be getting. I get so tired of seeing monks not being able to capitalize on magic items like other classes can.
Ya know what I love... I love how I can see you learning. The april fools video you had a joke revolving around getting people to subscribe where it was basically like, hey this bad thing is happening to people who arent subscribed so you should subscribe, and my guess is you got a lot more than usual subscribers from that video, and now you have made your calls to action for subscribing a lot more jokey and fun, which I think is smart and I enjoy it too. Hope it is working out for ya, you deserve it!
Cleave change: Keep it the same but remove the necessity for it to be a creature next to your target, just make it any creature within your reach. Positioning yourself to reach 2 targets is way easier than trying to get 2 targets next to eachother
i’m glad that out of so many D&D content creators releasing hot takes, overexaggerating buffs and nerfs, and just generally doomsaying we have one voice of reason. thanks chris!
Cleave is a rule used on Not Nother D&D Podcast, where damage carries over from one minion to another when one dies.It applies only to minor enemies and the players don't pick who the damage applies to (they play theater of the mind). For instance, suppose there were 10 pirates (20 hp each) and a captain (50 hp each): if the fighter does 10 dmg with the first attack, and 14 dmg with the second, the 4 dmg carries over to the next pirate. If the paladin smites and ruts on his turn for 55 dmg against an unhurt enemy, it would cleave through two enemies, and deal 15 dmg to one more enemy (likely leaving the hurt enemy with 16 hp with only 1 hp). It is implemented to keep battles from being a slog, and makes targeting the minions a reasonable use of your action, since you essentially target the minions as a group.
It's funny because the Light Weapon property was worded properly for two-weapon fighting in the Expert Classes UA. I feel like something got removed by accident when they were switching around the functionality of Light weapons and the Nick mastery.
As stated at the end of the video, the "problem" with Vex is the perception that it'll just give advantage all the time, when that's just not true...but people will claim it is anyway. Also, at tables that use Flanking rules or coordinating other ways, even hitting with a Vex weapon doesn't matter since they have advantage anyway. Also, any character using Nick (so Sword Short + Dagger characters) will always "burn" their advantage on their Nick weapon attack, thus resetting the "Vex Advantage Train" every turn anyway. It's still nice, but not OP like many people claim.
A fun thing to note is that with Reckless Attack, you can completely bypass vex's ramp up. This means on subsequent turns you can forego Reckless Attack, making yourself tankier (maybe even using a shield?). Obviously you wouldn't want to do this on Berserker and give up your Frenzy damage, and rapier will still do less damage than a greatsword, but y'know. Champion's Heroic Warrior has a similar effect too, actually.
Tumble is such a great idea! Especially with multiple attacks, I'm making a custom magic item immediately, slashing through the enemy has always been such a fun concept for me
I quite like weapon masteries for martials, but I REALLY hope they expand the list. Give us an entire section of weapon masteries, like how the spell casters spells take up a good chunk of the book. Maybe 20 or so, maybe even level gate some of them, like say you have to be a level 15 fighter or barbarian to unlock some really powerful masteries that help keep martials on par with the spell casters who are dropping fireballs every fight.
These playtests makes me excitied to try a dex based paladin Shortsword with weapon master for vex (and improved divine smite fun), Longbow for range coverage etc. When the UA is done it would be fun to see some theory builds!
i suspect that the purpose of "vex" is for a rogue to specialise in one weapon at level 4 with the "weapon mastery" feat (also gaining +1 to DEX as part of the feat). A rogue could use "steady aim" to guarantee advantage during the first round and therefore gain high probability to apply "vex" in all rounds thereafter
I think where Vex is most valuable is going to be for characters who do fewer but more powerful attacks (e.g., Rogues). One thing you didn't talk about in detail is that if you already have advantage, Vex doesn't help because advantage doesn't stack. This means that tables where it is easier to get advantage (e.g. if you play with flanking) Vex will be less useful. I really do think it's quite a benefit for rogues because it frees up resources that they are using to produce advantage (e.g. bonus action hide). One thing that's fun to think through is how higher level fighters can stack effects. A fighter could slow an enemy and then push them into an area of effect (or slow, topple, and then push!)
I'm having visions of a creature with an insane AC, like a Tarrasque, being mobbed by a swarm of fast-moving first-level flying fighters armed with heavy weapons - and they take it out from attrition despite not being able to hit it. Thanks, GRAZE!
That is a fun idea - if they can get past its frightful presence, all somehow have magical weapons, and don't mind five of them getting killed every round. But as an Attack on Titan soldiers vs. Godzilla sort of thing accompanied by lots of beer, it sounds like a hoot.
I think the way I would fix Cleave is just to get rid of the "within 5 feet of the original target" and "you don't add ability modifier". It means you're getting an extra good attack, but it's not a huge tactical advantage.
Trentmonk singlehandedly being the voice of reason for OneDnd, and incidentally being one of its biggest proponents. And he wasn't invited to the summit.....
Re: Flex, I'm not defending it but over lunch I did some math. Flex + Dueling + Shield Master + Magic Initiate (to cast Hunter's Mark on BA) + Charger + Mage Slayer (for utility), I found that a level 13 Champion using Long Sword and Shield trying to use Shield Bash after their first hit of the round does 40.5 DPR without advantage, about 10 less than Chris' Pole Arm example (although I don't understand how he's using 1d10 for his BA attack). If the Sword and Board Champion could even do trivial damage on their Bonus Action after round one, I think it could be a bit more competitive too especially given it has better defense and utility with Mage Slayer.
I think cleave should allow a second attack to another creature within your reach. That way, you can influence the condition based on your positioning rather than needing the enemies to create it for you.
BTW for warlock. check the lifedrinker evocation for the healing part, it should say “THIS necrotic damage” but it just says you heal for the necrotic damage done, allowing potential feat like the Baleful scion from wonders of the multiverse to double dip, and the Undead patron worlock’s 6th level feature allows them to make all their damage necrotic and can add another damage die in dread form, unless they change it, they can just heal for that entire attack.
With the topple ability, i immediately agreed with you when you mentioned it could be linked to a certain damage threshold, but then realized that this would mean low damage rolls feel extra bad, while big numbers feel extra good. And since they probably want to make it feel good as an ability, and not just if you get lucky with your damage, they went for the saving throw. Using their AC as a point of reference, won't work that well with a lot of tables, as the DM doesn't always share what AC their creatures have.
I agree with the wording on light weapons needing rework, but the mental image of a guy quick sheathing and doing iaijutsu strikes with a pair of shortswords is amazing.
Ideas: Cleave: After you hit and damage a target in melee, count the effects of that hit against additional targets in range of your weapon, up to your Strength modifier. Note that the effect of the initial hit are adjusted for the additional targets; hitting a goblin does not make your attack damage an iron golem. Flex: When you are wielding a Two Handed Weapon, it counts as Versatile. Versatile weapons count as One Handed, One Handed Count as Light. In Addition, you deal +2 damage with melee weapons as per the weapon damage. Graze: Applies to ranged attacks that deal piercing or slashing damage. Topple: Target becomes Prone if either is both less than 2 sizes larger than you and has less than 50 hp remaining. Nick: The first time on your turn that you make an extra attack with this weapon, it counts as part of the previous attack action you already made this turn; it doesn’t cost your bonus attack or reaction. Light: If you are armed with a Light weapon, you can make an attack with that weapon as a bonus action on a turn in which you attacked with a different melee weapon.
I love the idea of changing flex to add AC. The problem with it is then you have to decide and kerp track of when you do and dont have that AC. For instance if you're switching weapons or if you're a 13th level fighter and have two masteries on your weapon and use the other mastery.
How dare you. I literally rewatched your video that has the masteries in like nineteen minutes in and watched that section a couple if times last night looking for how you ranked the masteries so i can incorporate some of the best into my campaign. And then you go and make this video. Chris you are like twelve hours late. But i do really appreciate this without having even gotten past the ads.
I am personally on the backfoot with knick. Surely just giving dual wielders the extra attack and adding a new, interesting property to the weapons that had it would force fewer characters to figure out weapon masteries alongside everything else about their character. And a new player could just... Dual wield, and have it function in combat, which isn't game breaking (not with the current revisions anyway).
Hey Chris!, I'm a big fan of your content! I love how in depth you are and precise you try to be with your numbers(absolutely love the detailed character builds with dpr breakdowns), so i wondered, why do you take the crit chance for a normal crit with advantage to be 10% instead of 9.75% ( which is what its supposed to be) I noticed this in two of your recent videos and since you said you'd like any math improvements I'll explain a little, we know each face of a d20 has a 5% chance of occuring when we roll, so the natural chance to crit is 5%, it is easy to assume that when we double the dice, we exactly double the chance to crit, but its not that simple because when you roll 2 D20, and you get a 20 on your first dice it does not matter what you get on your second dice, you would've crit with or without advantage! the only times advantage does come in to play for giving crits is when you weren't critting on the first roll and the second roll ends up being a 20 so there's a 5% chance for you to crit on your first roll, and a 95% chance you don't crit on that roll, so the second dice comes in to play on that 95% thus 5% of 95% is your additional chance to crit when rolling with advantage or two dice ... That ends up being 95x0.05 =4.75% chance for the second dice to crit thus an overall crit chance of 9.75% ( it is 0.25% less than a perfect 10, because that 0.25% accounts for when we roll with advantage and get 20 on both dice, and that does nothing for us, we could've gotten a crit with either die, and Rolling 20 on both doesn't give any additional chance to crit so it's wasted potential of sorts) Having your crit range extended on the other hand still gives you a 5%flat increase per extra number that also leads to a crit because now you're just adding more faces on the same diceroll that can lead to a crit.. so a 19-20 crit range is 10% chance to crit and 18-20=15% ! I know you're more than capable of crunching the numbers yourself, but here's the basic numbers for all those that just want it quick and easy : TLDR:- Regular crit rangeChance to crit= 5% Regular crit range chance to crit with advantage = 9.75% Regular crit range chance to crit with elven accuracy advantage = 14.2625% Extended crit range (19-20 chance to crit= 10%) Extended crit range chance to crit with advantage = 19% Extended crit range chance to crit with elven accuracy advantage =27.1% Max extended crit range (18-20) crit chance= 15% Max crit rate chance with advantage= 27.75% Max crit rate with elven accuracy advantage=38.5875% Please feel free to correct me if I have been wrong in any place here !
One of the homebrew weapons I used in my campaign allowed the player to Parry melee attacks against them. If they are hit with a melee attack they get the opportunity to roll a D20 and if their roll is higher than their attackers, they block the strike instead. I could see this becoming a weapon mastery instead of Flex...
I don't think Topple is really going to add a lot of saving throws in reality. It's likely once for fighters and probably only when they have multiple attacks. Casters can already cast saving throw spells or cantrip each round--with multiple saves for AoE. Knocking enemies prone also gives disadvantage to any ranged attackers in the party so it should be used with discretion.
Some other ideas for flex, playing off the idea that these weapons are supposed to be "Versatile" in combat: 1. When you make a one handed attack with this weapon, your next two handed attack with it this turn has advantage. When you make a two handed attack with this weapon, your next one handed attack with it this turn has advantage. 2. When using a flex weapon and making an attack with either your strength or dexterity modifier, you can add the other modifier to the attack's damage (maximum of 3). 3. If you make a one-handed attack on your turn with a flex weapon, you can use your bonus action to make a two-handed attack with the same weapon.
Attacking all creatures in your reach with a great weapon is not videogamy: that's the whole point of real life greatswords. They were area denial weapons for bodyguards etc. Just put "hema greatsword" in youtube search and see.
I really like these types of in depth content, and I have a request, could you make a video analising how each fighting archetype (like two weapon fighting, two handed weapons, halberts, sword and board, ranged and thrown weapon) compare to one another in this New system?
My initial thought with the Light Weapon issue was that the problem was with being able to unequip as part of the action, thus still allowing multiple thrown weapons to be utilized in a single hand, but likely if someone in reality needed to quickly throw multiple blades, they would at least need use of their free hand to assist in the action. Thus I am in agreement that the light weapon property needs to state some reference that the offhand is utilized or equipped with the second weapon.
Hey Chris! Great video! But don't forget that OneD&D has the heroic inspiration mechanics, and a human fighter or a champion fighter might have advantage on the first attack in first round, triggering Vex for the next attacks. Still, I think it's a good option, but not overwhelming strong as it might seem. Lucky feat should also do this job.
The AC +1 for one handed and +2 for two handed sounds fantastic Its basically the same as having a shield. And if you do have a shield its still +1. So many times have felt penalized for not having a shield
Hey Chris, when you wrote that guide way back when, could you ever imagine that you'd be making videos like this as a career? Way to go, congratulations, and thanks for all the awesome content.
@@ThexInsidexManplease don't misunderstand. I'm not taking anything away from his other work by saying that there was a specific guide that generated a lot of "fame" back in the day. My point is that what was a side interest is now how he feeds his family, and I'm really proud of him for doing that. It's hard work, and he's a good role (or roll) model for anyone interested in doing the same.
Ahh no worries. I had 2 people separately think he was famous for one thing or another whereas it's been a longgggg ride and a fair bit of evolution for both D&D and him + the other OG's of the current scene, who were once the new guys
@@ThexInsidexManI appreciate it. My first edition to play was 2nd, but my first books were 1st edition. I was aware of TM for a long, long time, but not so much to have been on the WotC boards back in the early internet days.
@@migueldelmazo5244 word, I got into D&D when 3e dropped, and one of the older mentors/game shop type guys (my buddys uncle) showed us 2E later on. 3.5 was where we got addicted and where i started DMing. Treantmonk and some other guide-series like the "The Quintessential (Class) and stuff made my life infinitely easier when designing all those npc's and and plotlines. They rock
A feature to use instead of flex could be something like "A versatile weapon gets you a precise control of where you hit with it. Once per turn, when wielding this weapon two handed, ou can ignore the AC of a creature when you make an attack roll. Instead, consider its AC to be 10 + DEX modifier + the shield bonus, if it's wearing one." It's a way to enable into the game more fancy swordfighting moves, such as aiming for armpits, behind the knee, or the neck of armored enemies, or between the junctions of the armor of a bug, or for the battleaxe, the sheer brute force of the attack smashing causing damage through armor. It also enables the fantasy of a lot of action heroes, where they wield a longsword two handed and nothing else. As it is, the games offer no benefit other than a free hand, if you go to battle with a versatile weapon and no shield or anything. If you can go into battle with just a longsword two handed, you'd be better with a greatsword.
If I'm not mistaken, you can add Sap to other weapons in the Fighters 7th level feature, because that is replacing the current property of the weapon. So you can replace a Longsword's Flex with Sap. However, Sap says "No OTHER properties" so you then couldn't add a second property with the Fighters 13th level feature. That's how I read it anyway.
The moment Samurai fighter is updated to OneD&D, I can see some people who saw that light weapon text making a brooding ronin type who only ever unsheathes their blades to strike quickly, then sheathes them again. (Y'know, to justify the one-handed weapon juggling)
I wish there was a shield option, like reduce damage equal to the shields AC or slam you could do with it. Maybe a reaction like some fighting styles, but it helps you defend yourself.
One of the things you may not have noticed with Nick and Vex. Your main hand weapon is likely to have Vex. Your off hand is then going to eat that Vex and break the Vex chain. So each turn, you’ll start without advantage on your main hand and have to hit it to get off hand advantage.
Flex: One-handed grants +1 to-hit and +1 AC, to lean into the dueling style (parrying, longer arm reach). Two-handed grants -1 AC, -1 to-hit, and +5 to damage, to lean into a more reckless and aggressive style. Adds way more flavor, mechanical impact, and flexibility for different style of martials.
It sound interesting to be able to throw two daggers using light weapon property and basically do two attacks. Gives some base to the ninja style of play. I say, jeep ut as is, but have it so you cannot equip a weapon if you unequiped one. Which I think is the case. You can only equip or unequip a weapon as part of an attack, but you can only draw it as part of a thrown weapon attack.
A great breakdown as always. Light Weapon definitely needs fixing. It feels hard to keep track of changes to Two Weapon Fighting. Looking back, I don't know that having Cleave automatically do damage to other creatures works. A scenario could arise where a boss, surrounded by minons has a high AC, but the minions, being minions, do not. The player is then incentivized to hit the minions simply to ensure damage against the boss. Also, Flex does allow the higher damage while keeping a hand open for a shield, effectively giving a +2 to AC even at the higher damage level.
Another thing for Nick is to have it activate regardless if it is the first or second weapon used (i.e. Club/Dagger or Dagger/Club makes no difference).
Another pro for Graze is that certain builds are MAD. Paladin comes to mind here as often you want to boost CHA as well as STR. With Graze there's of a penalty for leaving STR at 18 while you boost CHA to 18 first.
One note about Nick: While a Fighter won't benefit from using 2 weapons with Nick, other classes who pick up the Weapon Mastery feat won't mind since if you're only getting that 1 mastery choice to begin with. I think improving Nick so that using 2 weapons with the Nick property get bonus damage will disproportionately favor the single mastery characters more than the Fighters and Barbarians who can reasonably use a different weapon in the other hand without much opportunity cost.
I think there are two classes that will benefit more from Vex: 1) Rogues with a Fighter dip. This doesn't necessarily apply to a Barbarian dip as they have Reckless Attack (it might with a Monk dip but we haven't seen them yet) but typically melee rogues have to do a whole "hide/move in/attack" and then hope that either an ally gets within 5' of the target or that target dies before your next round, or else you need to disengage to try it again. (typically) If you have Vex, you can turn that first advantage into a second advantage. I'd probably want to do something like shortsword and dagger, so that I can get Vex with my main attack, Nick with my off-hand, and still have my Cunning Action. 2) Barbarians. Reckless Attack is great, but there are times you wish you weren't always giving your enemies advantage. If you have a weapon with Vex, you could Reckless Attack to start and use that to get advantage in the future. This may bring down your damage die, but I could see it working well with a sword-and-board Barbarian, going for a more Spartan or Hoplite feel of using a shield and a short sword.
Flex is a problem also in that, it is the only mastery that affects sword and board wielders. I think it was intended for that purpose. My proposed fix is: Flex (or some other name) - If you are wielding this weapon in one hand and a shield in the other, you can make a shield slam as a bonus action. Shield slam does 1d4 damage and they have to make a strength saving throw or be pushed back 5ft. But I would like to see shields get a little bit of work done to them. More variety and maybe their own masteries.
Nick: If you are wielding two weapons with the Nick property, these weapons also gain the Cleave property. You can gan two additional attacks if you use two weapons with Nick, but you need to spread the damage. Vex is all about rogues. Pick one: Nick or Vex. Topple: If a target succeeds at the saving throw, it automatically succeeds on saving throws against your use of the Topple property until the start of your next turn.
One way to get Versatile weapons to potentially be used as two-handed weapons would be to alter the Great Weapon Master feat so that it reads "Heavy or Versatile weapons when used in two-hands" and thereby gains the feat's benefits. It would still not be used as often as a heavy weapon but a player can make a thematic choice and not be too far behind as a result. Just 1 or 1.5 damage behind greataxe/great sword and the same damage as polearms but no reach. Push loses power as you increase in level because you start facing huge or bigger creatures more often. The Light Weapon property has been glitched in the way Tree describes for the last 2 playtest cycles. I wrote about it in the survey both times. No response yet. However, they finally changed Equipping or Unequipping because nearly every youtuber was reading it incorrectly. You don't and never did have the ability to equip and unequip both before and after. The word "or" means one or the other but not both. To be one or the other or both, it should have been written as "and/or". But they went with "either/or" which still leaves some ambiguity though I think it leans toward one or the other but not both. I ask the commenters, can you both equip and unequip the same weapon (equpping before you attack and unequipping after you attack) or no?
Someone with a former education in statistical probabilities (just graduated from Mizzou) Though this is more of a calculus thing The equation is Y1=(0.84xY)+(0.6x(1-Y) Where Y1 is the next iteration of Y. y is a limit that approaches, 0.79 but never reaches 0.79. But it gets to 0.79. If you have ways of giving yourself advantage that aren't contingent on your chance to hit as is, you can raise that number to a max of 0.8016, but that's not very much to gain. But using it to gain advantage on your first attack can get you there instantly while also skipping those first 4 attacks of build up
The formula to determine the maximum % to hit vex provides (it will start at the non-advantage % and work it's way towards this number) is x/(x+(1-x^2)) where X=% to hit without advantage. Thanks to MathguyDave for the formula. For a 60% to hit, Vex will eventually increase that % to 79% (or just below).
Dang, beat to the punch. I will add, though, that you can find your average chance to hit, given a 4 round baseline. Our chance to hit starts low and increases over time, meaning the more attacks per round we get, the less the first couple crappy hits matter.
The average chance to hit over:
8 attacks = 75.8%
12 attacks = 76.8%
16 attacks = 77.3%
However, if you give yourself advantage on the first attack through a different means, it bumps your 8 attack average up to 78.7% which is essentially the cap. You get very very small increases as you increase to 12 or 16 attacks. So with a single use of advantage and vex, you essentially go from 60% to 80% during an entire combat.
@@erikskaug9952 If you start with advantage on your first attack your average to hit chance over the first n attacks should be above 15/19=79% and decay down towards that number as n increases (eg when n=1 you get 84%)
Another modification to Cleave mite be to give it to weapons with the Heavy and Reach properties and turn the attack into a cone shape and make attack roles to every creature in the cone
Curses, went into the math before reading the comments. Can I still get half a point for the neat spreadsheet I made?
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B3pEs9C_KUhKypJ14Z-h6QkIpIsbqehNvRA3eG1jpa8/edit?usp=sharing
For Flex, I agree with exchanging it with something else like a +1 AC One-handed and D12 damage Two-handed as it makes the weapon much more "Versatile"
I think the Slow damage qualifier is a thematic/flavor choice. Someone is slowed because their leg or foot takes damage. If they are immune to the damage, then there is nothing slowing them. But a creature being shoved can still be moved even when not taking damage, your weapon can still cleave and keep moving even if the creature takes no damage, etc.
This was my assumption as well.
You're probably right, but it's still an unnecessary complication when taking into account how rarely it will apply.
I used to have 30 feet movement speed but then I took an arrow to the knee
@@atlasminty-jq7fy I would say that dislocating an arm ( or anything else for that matter ) would still damage since that still fucking hurts
@@AlexT7916 Fair 😂 I was just trying to find scenarios in which it could slow without damaging permanently
I think the biggest surprise here for Vex is that you need to understand calculus to determine it’s limit.
I really like the AC suggestion for versatile. Part of picking the Sword and board is being willing to sacrifice damage to feel invincible and that sure helps the feeling.
What if Flex weapons allowed you to use your Reaction to attempt to disarm a creature? Capitalizing on the sword and board gladiator concept. Maybe make it a bit like Monk where you reduce damage, and disarm if it goes to 0
@@AnaseSkyrider I'd prefer it if the Disarm action just became a standard action, rather than an optional one. Cited below, so you don't have to look it up in the DMG.
*Disarm*
A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target’s grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.
The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
@@probablythedm1669 I knew the DMG version. But here's the thing, you have Topple and Push which are both doing other actions, functionally speaking. So why can't there be a disarm?
The issue with that being that +1 to AC is very powerful. Combine this with Defence fighting style and you have a total of +4AC potentially at game start.
If we wanted to overdo this we could now go for a Warforged that adds another +1 to AC. Let's say our character is a fighter wearing heavy armor. This already bumped the fighter's AC to 21. At level 1.
And the "+2 AC while wielding a versatile weapon with two hands" is mechanically the same thing as using the higher damage die when wielding the weapon with just one hand, though it is of course cooler thematically.
@@serathus3201 How are you getting +4 AC at game start? Can't combine it with a shield.
Vex has 2 more limitations: Firstly it resets every time you need to switch targets for whatever reason, and secondly it obviously doesn't add further value to any attacks that would've had advantage anyway, perhaps because the target was restrained or knocked prone by a party member for example. So I think it's nicely balanced for the specific use-case of being highly specialised at focussing down one particular target while offering little value to clearing up the lesser mooks and benefitting less from other sources of advantage.
It also stalls out if you need to switch weapon. If you try to dual-wield, you can't make use of Nick and Vex unless you want to reset your Vex every turn. The light/finesse requirement for melee weapons also loses you a smidge of damage.
I'm curious about how people will make use of its interaction with spells. It grants advantage on your next attack roll, it doesn't specify weapon attack roll. I don't know any spells that could really take advantage of this and it does end Vex but it could lead to some interesting combos where it acts as True Strike with better action economy. Best I can come up with is the following:
Turn 1 - shoot creature 1, get vex on it
Turn 2 - shoot creature 2 within 10ft. of creature 1, get vex on it (you can maintain vex against multiple creatures), bonus action dump a Blade of Disaster between them and attack both creatures with advantage, ending Vex.
Another simple fix to vex chains is to make a limit of Vexing once per round.
It also comes with the baggage of a father that doesn't love you, and a brother Vax that's way too maudlin.
@@michaelmclawhorn6911 I don't think this is necessary and if anything, would probably make it not good.
In fairness, if there's a bunch of mooks you probably don't really need advantage to hit them in the first place.
I ran some quick excel numbers. You average to-hit benefit statistically stabilizes by the third attack. For example, a 65% chance to hit becomes 79.7% on the second attack, 83.2% on the third, and only gets to 84.1% by the 9th. Below is the hit rate on the first, second, and third+ attacks using Vex at different to-hit odds:
10% --> 11% --> 11%
20% --> 23% --> 24%
30% --> 36% --> 38%
40% --> 50% --> 52%
50% --> 63% --> 66%
60% --> 74% --> 78%
65% --> 80% --> 83%
70% --> 85% --> 88%
75% --> 89% --> 92%
80% --> 93% --> 95%
90% --> 98% --> 99%
To me this looks like Vex is worth on average a +2.5 to +3 to hit. (0 bonus on first attack, +3 on attack two, +3.5 on attack 3 and beyond).
Does this factor in crit chance? Advantage makes it easier to crit (and harder to crit fail), imagine stacking this with the champion fighter.
+3 to hit is pretty huge when archery is +2
@@ovbrook3057 This is also assuming you're fighting one big thing (which usually has bigger AC). The moment you're attacking a different enemy you're back to square one. So in boss fights this will do well and you can fairly consistently keep your advantage ball rolling. But in a multiple enemy encounter you suffer way more. Archery is consistent vex isn't.
Can’t wait to hear your opinion on Warlocks!
I'm betting he's gonna be... Outspoken about it lol
Dude the Warlock changes make me so sad. All they had to do was make EB a class feature with built in scaling, make it so a lot of the spell selection invocations let you cast them once for free, and maybe give them more spell slots. The way I would have done it is a number of slots per day equal to proficiency bonus and then once per day when you finish a short rest you get all your slots back similar to Arcane Recovery.
I have mixed fellings about the Warlock.
The idea for the Pact Boon class feature is ok. But I felt that must be an upgrade at 11th level at least for the pact cantrips.
And with so many spells per day and the same amount of spells know and fewer levels of spells, the invocations that reproduce utility spells effects at will like Mask of Many Faces and many others has no use.
Mystic Arcanum Invocation need to let you choose two spells and cast only one of them per long rest.
I Felt with my build that you dont have the same versatility like the older version.
@@diegonunesnl I love the new warlock, it is such a huge improvement, fixing pretty much all the issues with the old warlock. You are wrong though on one thing, warlocks get LOT more spells known now, because they add all their patron spells to their spells known.
@@Klaital1 New Warlocks suck, dude. The class has been practically gutted.
I think the wording of "and deal damage" for Slow and Vex are there for monks and Deflect Missiles. With the exception of Push on Heavy Crossbows, all ranged weapons have either Slow or Vex, and getting hit but taking no damage is certainly something that can happen with monks. I know if I were playing a monk, getting slowed or someone getting advantage on me after I took no damage from the attack, it'd feel pretty crappy.
The only other Mastery's that apply to possible missiles are for thrown weapons, which can have Nick (dagger, light hammer), which if I'm understanding things right, would not be able to be applied to a thrown attack anyway, and Topple (trident), which similar to the push of the Heavy Crossbow, leans into a flavor of a monk being able to possibly catch it for no damage, but being affected by the momentum of the attack.
@@spiderwrangler4457 current monk deflect missiles allows you to deflect it so if you are a weapon user (kensei monk for example) you can swing at the projectile and parry it or split it in two if it is an arrow
it should not affect me if i negate the attack so the damage rider is pretty cool
@@finalfantasy50 right, the wording of deflect missiles (currently) considers you to be hit by the attack, because that's only when you can use it, but there's a good chance you can reduce the damage to zero, in which case you ought not to be Slowed or Vexed. Removing the damage requirement would make them apply regardless of if you catch/parry the projectile or not, as you're still considered to be hit, just for 0 damage.
If this is true, the efficient fix is to add a "masteries don't affect you if you reduce the damage to zero" rule in the Deflect Missiles feature, where only monks have to care about it, rather than adding a weird condition to the general masteries that affect whole swathes of characters.
@@CubaLibre200X Not if they WANT Push and Topple to be able to affect monks, even if they reduce it to zero. Also, not sure that making it a special thing on Deflect Missiles is cleaner, it doesn't really get in the way on the Masteries, it just reads like an odd extra redundant bit in most cases.
The biggest shocker is to learn that you don’t have a formal education in statistics. You have such an analytical mind, I thought « this guy is a math guy for sure! »
Agree! Haha
To be fair opening a decent textbook intended for stats 101, can get you really far in 90% of situations where statistics might be needed.
And weighing hypothetical options A vs B in character building is often not reliant on any statistics knowledge, just arithmetic.
😉@@Byssbod
Another thing with the light weapon property is it has an issue with thrown weapons. You can use the two weapon fighting like pre-playtest with a thrown weapon, but you can still have a shield. If you make the condition that they need to be held in both hands then you can’t throw a weapon using the light weapon property. I think maybe they should just grab the wording for two weapon fighting and put it into light lol.
This might also be a way to update the thrown weapon fighting style.
As if the play test, it only really applies +2 damage, but if you allowed it throw an additional thrown weapon as a bonus action it gives it relevance.
But I’d rather see true dual wielding be raised up, its too cool to be sidelined by these unintended consequences.
What about adding something like "When you start your turn wielding a weapon in each hand ..." to the start of the Light weapon property?
Then you could throw a weapon later without losing the benefit.
@@nevertoonate Good point!
I wonder if the DND designers also work on MTG. Because all these rules read like they're intended to fit on a card, and any wonky interactions are considered "emergent play" rewards for rules lawyers rather than attempting to make rules that make sense
Cleave could have been something like "If you hit a creature with a melee attack using this weapon, you can make additional attacks with the weapon against creatures within 5ft of each new target and that is also within your reach. You may only attack each additional creature once in this way per turn." That way you get more targets but you still keep the fantasy of the sword swing carrying through in one direction since you can't choose the target to the left of the original target if you've already chosen the target on the right.
The other thing is:
I don´t see the second attack being independent of the ability modifier. I mean, a guy with 10 STR and a guy with a belt of storm giant strength both are cleaving ... and their secondary hit is just the same? Breaks imagination for me. The "old" cleaving mechanic I remember from AD&D games like Pool of Radiance where cleaving was like an attack chain / killstreak against close-range enemies with inferior hit dice felt so much more convincing. You didn´t cleave giants but wiped out goblins.
@@TheCobraCom I think the idea is that the swing will have lost a lot of power/momentum after already having hit the 1st target. Like if I try to slap 2 people with one swing, the first person I hit is definitely going to be hurting more
I think for cleave, you should use the same attack roll and just see if it also hits the new target. That saves time at the table and makes it more likely for the cleave attack to hit bc your attack roll was at least high enough to hit your initial target
And make it anyone in reach
And allow you to hit a number of targets equal to your STR mod (min 1) within a given turn; doesn't have to be all at once, but can also be used over multiple cleaves per turn.
@@RobKinneySouthpaw That's almost the same as the Cleaving Through optional rule from the DMG except that one only applies after a target goes to 0 HP and applies the excess damage to the next target. The DMG one is probably less effective overall due to higher HP mobs.
Vex plus spell attacks would be crazy. It just says attack roll, not with this weapon or weapon attack roll.
I have a homebrew scag cantrip that gives the next attack against the creature advantage. I quite like it, and use it a lot on my Artificer. It also helps me set up attacks for others, like the paladin.
Ah, so attack with weapon, follow up with a spell attack. That could work nicely for bladesingers.
Think this was intentional?
I like it
@@TreantmonksTemple My Sorcadin would love that as well, take your attack action as normal then you get to quicken a spell attack with ADV afterwards.
This could be nice for Eldritch Knights as well. I just hope that subclass gets a buff from 5e.
Yeah it just COMPLETELY invalidates True Strike doesn't it. Even cases like Inflict Wounds or Plane Shift where you can't just "attack twice" because it's a leveled spell, it's better to get that advantage with Vex than with a concentration cantrip.
The thing I think folks are missing about flex is that your character can also now wield a shield, improving their ac with this mastery. Also it means characters that need a hand free for casting or something can now still benefit.
Flex needs to be compared to non-Flex 1h weapons, though. Without factoring in Fighter changing Masteries, you can have Topple, Sap, or Vex with d8 one handed weapons. Vex is probably more damage, and the others offer some decent control, for a very small price.
I also think Treantmonk is right that Flex also has an issue in that it means Versatile weapons into *only* 1h weapons, and no longer worthwhile with two hands.
If Flex was a small damage perk, perhaps about twice as good as it is now, about half as good as Graze (current Flex is about 1/4th of Graze), and worked with both 1h and 2h styles of the weapon, that'd be perfect.
@@thebitterfig9903 I agree, having 2 abilities for 1 vs 2 handed would be good. It is weak, just not as weak as some are saying.
Hey TM. Have you noticed Push doesn’t have the “horizontal” rider, meaning you could keep tossing enemies of certain sizes up in the air, landing prone for a d6 falling damage, every attack? I think that needs a change too.
I hadn't considered that
I think the "away from you" mostly covers that. The only edge case would be a halfling warrior wielding A great club running under their enemies and launching them to the air with every attack, because halfling can enter hostile creatures square. And I think that's fine.
@@PiiskaJesusFreak 10 feet up *is* away from you.
@@PiiskaJesusFreak This is so funny lol just a lil dude running around kicking things in the nuts making them jump up cartoon style. It's so looney tunes and I'm all here for that haha.
@@PiiskaJesusFreak the thing is, a lot of push based mechanics specify “horizontally” (like say, Repelling Blast) because up still counts as away from you and the thought it the designers don’t want free fall damage and prone condition (considering Topple is just prone and has a CON save). As for narrative, I can definitely see someone driving their pike into a baddie, turning around and putting the pike over their shoulder and using it as a fulcrum to launch them into the sky. Always ways to justify the mechanics in the fiction :)
The problem with Vex is that it creates high variance turns. Sometimes Vex will snowball. On the other hand, a lot of party synergies give advantage, in which case it may do nothing.
Fun fact: Slow is the only mastery property for which the javelin qualifies.
Hey Chris!
Thank you for these easy to digest videos! Having this huge deluge of info broken down with time in between videos is perfect 💜
Thanks Chris! For Nick, my suggestion would be if you are weilding two weapons with the nick property, you can get your bonus action attack as well as the bonus attack with your attack action, effectively giving you 3 attacks because you are using 2 nick weapons
Is this true or a suggestion? Bc I agree with it as a suggestion but as written, it doesn't work
if you read nick it says "you can still only make this bonus attack once per round" so either use it as part of the action or bonus action
i dont know if it is clear that you can use masteries as a non warrior (can rogue with a dagger use nick?)
Sorry both of you. It's a suggestion
I’ve been writing revised versions of these traits alongside some new ones, and here’s a solution for ways to make things streamlined and interactive:
Topple and Push only force a Saving Throw to a single target after the Attack Action. HOWEVER, if the target took damage from multiple hits, they get disadvantage to the save.
Grazing is good and can be emphasized more, representing chipping away. Light weapons getting graze can really give part of that fantasy, but with the catch of still being based on strength. The extra catch could be making Heavy Armor characters immune to grazing damage while medium armor resists it. Grazing can represent other kinds of strain, such as a sandstorm or the splash of bombs.
So a potential stupid thing you could do with these rules is if you have polearm master and extra attack you could
1) use the first attack of your attack action with a glaive from a distance (potentially using cleave to attack with it a second time) then unequip your glaive after attacking with it
2) draw and throw a handaxe for your extra attack to have attacked with a light weapon
3) use the nick property of a dagger to draw and throw it then reequip your glaive (because the thrown property allows you to draw the thrown weapon for free with out using the 1 equip or unequip per weapon attack)
4) and then as your bonus action make the pommel strike with your glaive
in addition if you don't need/ couldn't use the cleave property you could swap out the glaive for a lance for a little extra damage and the push property so that you don't have to make the first attack from a distance and possibly even use the polearm master reaction to attack on that enemy if they move back towards you
My fix to Cleave would be to replace it with the optional rule Cleaving Through Creatures (DMG p. 272):
"When a melee attack reduces an undamaged creature to 0 hit points, any excess damage from that attack might carry over to another creature nearby. The attacker targets another creature within reach and, if the original attack roll can hit it, applies any remaining damage to it. If that creature was undamaged and is likewise reduced to 0 hit points, repeat this process, carrying over the remaining damage until there are no valid targets, or until the damage carried over fails to reduce an undamaged creature to 0 hit points."
It's very smooth to implement as it doesn't require any additional rolls, yet is very satisfying as it avoids the usual waste of excess damage when fighting multiple enemies.
As I've been preparing for a playtest, I noticed the same problem with wielding two nick weapons, especially the same weapon. Wielding duplicate weapons makes a lot of sense too because you're limited on your number of weapons you've mastered, so taking two DIFFERENT light weapons eats up two masteries. As a fix, I really like the idea of a small amount of extra damage that you mentioned. And it goes along with the name "nick".
Love the analysis! When I heard the AC +1/+2 suggestion for Flex I had to smile I came up with the same solution myself.
One thing to keep in mind for Topple is that it can be very selfish. If you character knocks someone prone on your 1st attack, then you get advantage for you remaining attacks. However, the ranged characters in your party will all get disadvantage on their attacks if they act before the target get back on their feet. This has happened to me several times in a campaign where I played a ranged Warlock and we had a Battle Master in our party. Can be very frustrating...
Conversely, in a party with a bunch of Crossbow Experts (no disadvantage for being adjacent), Paladins and Rogues, knocking prone can be a very friendly thing to be doing.
For Flex you already can get the +2 to AC. Just have a shield equipped already. Now you can swing your Longsword with one hand dealing the extra damage and have the increased AC from having a shield equipped.
So that is +1 on damage dice and +2 to your AC.
@@targetdreamer257 and +2 from dueling, right?
@@eraz0rhead Yeah there is that possibility. but there is a chance of finding a +X shield. Though if you do go the dueling route that is a guaranteed +2 and you aren't dependent on the DM giving you the +X shield. Good point.
@@targetdreamer257 I wonder if Flex could be something like "when used in 1 hand, use the larger die. When used with 2 hands get +1 damage and +1 AC"
Not enough damage in 2 hands to overshadow actual 2 handers.. and not enough AC to eliminate sword and board as a style.. but a little of both.
Thanks Chris! You and D4 provide my favorite content by far!
Another part about the slow feature might be that if they want to give monk to have access to the weapon masteries they are likely to be applied to their unarmed strike, in which case they may not want it to stack with some of the new unarmed strike features.
Wanted to pop in and say thanks for the huge amount of content you've been putting out. I consume a lot of audio (about 50 hours a week) and it's always nice to see a video of yours pop up in my feed.
Thanks for the video! I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on warlock. Personally, I think your spell point idea is perfect for warlocks.
About Cleave: it should only require that all the creatures you attack are within your reach (described as using the momentum of a heavy weapon to create a huge arc). Also... they should think about giving the ability to choose to make more than one cleave attack (one after each attack) per turn if you do all your cleaves with disadvantage that turn (you have to chose before the roll for the first cleave). That way it doesn't get out of control, but it adds some flexibility: a fighter would have a way to deal with a group of wolves, or velociraptors (creatures that have low ac, but deal a great amount of damage if they're in large numbers).
It's awesome to have a thorough breakdown of these Weapon Masteries! I really Weapon Masteries as a game mechanic but I want to be able to give good feedback so that they are implemented just right and we don't see the same 1 or 2 getting picked constantly.
Great Work! Thank you Chris!
Oh! Also, regarding the Light weapon property and equipping: The Extra Attack feature doesn't allow you take additional Attack Actions, rather it allows you to make multiple attacks with your one Attack Action. So I would say the intent is that you can equip OR unequip once per Attack Action, regardless of however many attacks you can make with it.
When monk comes out I really want to see a mechanic where they can apply the effects of a magical weapon to their unarmed strikes to go along with the weapon mastery changes I'm assuming they'll be getting.
I get so tired of seeing monks not being able to capitalize on magic items like other classes can.
Ya know what I love... I love how I can see you learning. The april fools video you had a joke revolving around getting people to subscribe where it was basically like, hey this bad thing is happening to people who arent subscribed so you should subscribe, and my guess is you got a lot more than usual subscribers from that video, and now you have made your calls to action for subscribing a lot more jokey and fun, which I think is smart and I enjoy it too. Hope it is working out for ya, you deserve it!
I've had advantage on all attacks since the first day I subscribed. The hype is warranted, guys
Cleave change: Keep it the same but remove the necessity for it to be a creature next to your target, just make it any creature within your reach. Positioning yourself to reach 2 targets is way easier than trying to get 2 targets next to eachother
i’m glad that out of so many D&D content creators releasing hot takes, overexaggerating buffs and nerfs, and just generally doomsaying we have one voice of reason. thanks chris!
Great observation about light weapons/ shields... but Hurrah for those of us who like sword and board... ;) good vid!
Cleave is a rule used on Not Nother D&D Podcast, where damage carries over from one minion to another when one dies.It applies only to minor enemies and the players don't pick who the damage applies to (they play theater of the mind).
For instance, suppose there were 10 pirates (20 hp each) and a captain (50 hp each): if the fighter does 10 dmg with the first attack, and 14 dmg with the second, the 4 dmg carries over to the next pirate. If the paladin smites and ruts on his turn for 55 dmg against an unhurt enemy, it would cleave through two enemies, and deal 15 dmg to one more enemy (likely leaving the hurt enemy with 16 hp with only 1 hp).
It is implemented to keep battles from being a slog, and makes targeting the minions a reasonable use of your action, since you essentially target the minions as a group.
It's funny because the Light Weapon property was worded properly for two-weapon fighting in the Expert Classes UA.
I feel like something got removed by accident when they were switching around the functionality of Light weapons and the Nick mastery.
Oh god, I just had my final math exam two days ago and you going over probabilities and essentially tree diagrams gave me flashbacks
As stated at the end of the video, the "problem" with Vex is the perception that it'll just give advantage all the time, when that's just not true...but people will claim it is anyway. Also, at tables that use Flanking rules or coordinating other ways, even hitting with a Vex weapon doesn't matter since they have advantage anyway. Also, any character using Nick (so Sword Short + Dagger characters) will always "burn" their advantage on their Nick weapon attack, thus resetting the "Vex Advantage Train" every turn anyway. It's still nice, but not OP like many people claim.
A fun thing to note is that with Reckless Attack, you can completely bypass vex's ramp up. This means on subsequent turns you can forego Reckless Attack, making yourself tankier (maybe even using a shield?). Obviously you wouldn't want to do this on Berserker and give up your Frenzy damage, and rapier will still do less damage than a greatsword, but y'know. Champion's Heroic Warrior has a similar effect too, actually.
Tumble is such a great idea! Especially with multiple attacks, I'm making a custom magic item immediately, slashing through the enemy has always been such a fun concept for me
It's cool, but I think it's better suited as a rogue feature.
I quite like weapon masteries for martials, but I REALLY hope they expand the list. Give us an entire section of weapon masteries, like how the spell casters spells take up a good chunk of the book. Maybe 20 or so, maybe even level gate some of them, like say you have to be a level 15 fighter or barbarian to unlock some really powerful masteries that help keep martials on par with the spell casters who are dropping fireballs every fight.
These playtests makes me excitied to try a dex based paladin
Shortsword with weapon master for vex (and improved divine smite fun), Longbow for range coverage etc.
When the UA is done it would be fun to see some theory builds!
i suspect that the purpose of "vex" is for a rogue to specialise in one weapon at level 4 with the "weapon mastery" feat (also gaining +1 to DEX as part of the feat). A rogue could use "steady aim" to guarantee advantage during the first round and therefore gain high probability to apply "vex" in all rounds thereafter
I think where Vex is most valuable is going to be for characters who do fewer but more powerful attacks (e.g., Rogues).
One thing you didn't talk about in detail is that if you already have advantage, Vex doesn't help because advantage doesn't stack. This means that tables where it is easier to get advantage (e.g. if you play with flanking) Vex will be less useful. I really do think it's quite a benefit for rogues because it frees up resources that they are using to produce advantage (e.g. bonus action hide).
One thing that's fun to think through is how higher level fighters can stack effects. A fighter could slow an enemy and then push them into an area of effect (or slow, topple, and then push!)
I'm having visions of a creature with an insane AC, like a Tarrasque, being mobbed by a swarm of fast-moving first-level flying fighters armed with heavy weapons - and they take it out from attrition despite not being able to hit it. Thanks, GRAZE!
That is a fun idea - if they can get past its frightful presence, all somehow have magical weapons, and don't mind five of them getting killed every round. But as an Attack on Titan soldiers vs. Godzilla sort of thing accompanied by lots of beer, it sounds like a hoot.
I think the way I would fix Cleave is just to get rid of the "within 5 feet of the original target" and "you don't add ability modifier". It means you're getting an extra good attack, but it's not a huge tactical advantage.
Trentmonk singlehandedly being the voice of reason for OneDnd, and incidentally being one of its biggest proponents. And he wasn't invited to the summit.....
How was this man not invited to the Creator’s Summit???
It's interesting you can push only one size larger than you, but can knock prone any sized creatures.
Heavy Crossbow vs Ancient Dragon... down you go!
Re: Flex, I'm not defending it but over lunch I did some math. Flex + Dueling + Shield Master + Magic Initiate (to cast Hunter's Mark on BA) + Charger + Mage Slayer (for utility), I found that a level 13 Champion using Long Sword and Shield trying to use Shield Bash after their first hit of the round does 40.5 DPR without advantage, about 10 less than Chris' Pole Arm example (although I don't understand how he's using 1d10 for his BA attack). If the Sword and Board Champion could even do trivial damage on their Bonus Action after round one, I think it could be a bit more competitive too especially given it has better defense and utility with Mage Slayer.
I think cleave should allow a second attack to another creature within your reach. That way, you can influence the condition based on your positioning rather than needing the enemies to create it for you.
BTW for warlock.
check the lifedrinker evocation for the healing part, it should say “THIS necrotic damage” but it just says you heal for the necrotic damage done, allowing potential feat like the Baleful scion from wonders of the multiverse to double dip, and the Undead patron worlock’s 6th level feature allows them to make all their damage necrotic and can add another damage die in dread form, unless they change it, they can just heal for that entire attack.
With the topple ability, i immediately agreed with you when you mentioned it could be linked to a certain damage threshold, but then realized that this would mean low damage rolls feel extra bad, while big numbers feel extra good. And since they probably want to make it feel good as an ability, and not just if you get lucky with your damage, they went for the saving throw.
Using their AC as a point of reference, won't work that well with a lot of tables, as the DM doesn't always share what AC their creatures have.
I agree with the wording on light weapons needing rework, but the mental image of a guy quick sheathing and doing iaijutsu strikes with a pair of shortswords is amazing.
Ideas:
Cleave: After you hit and damage a target in melee, count the effects of that hit against additional targets in range of your weapon, up to your Strength modifier. Note that the effect of the initial hit are adjusted for the additional targets; hitting a goblin does not make your attack damage an iron golem.
Flex: When you are wielding a Two Handed Weapon, it counts as Versatile. Versatile weapons count as One Handed, One Handed Count as Light. In Addition, you deal +2 damage with melee weapons as per the weapon damage.
Graze: Applies to ranged attacks that deal piercing or slashing damage.
Topple: Target becomes Prone if either is both less than 2 sizes larger than you and has less than 50 hp remaining.
Nick: The first time on your turn that you make an extra attack with this weapon, it counts as part of the previous attack action you already made this turn; it doesn’t cost your bonus attack or reaction.
Light: If you are armed with a Light weapon, you can make an attack with that weapon as a bonus action on a turn in which you attacked with a different melee weapon.
I love the idea of changing flex to add AC. The problem with it is then you have to decide and kerp track of when you do and dont have that AC. For instance if you're switching weapons or if you're a 13th level fighter and have two masteries on your weapon and use the other mastery.
I like that change. Honestly flex needs something.
How dare you. I literally rewatched your video that has the masteries in like nineteen minutes in and watched that section a couple if times last night looking for how you ranked the masteries so i can incorporate some of the best into my campaign. And then you go and make this video. Chris you are like twelve hours late. But i do really appreciate this without having even gotten past the ads.
I am personally on the backfoot with knick. Surely just giving dual wielders the extra attack and adding a new, interesting property to the weapons that had it would force fewer characters to figure out weapon masteries alongside everything else about their character. And a new player could just... Dual wield, and have it function in combat, which isn't game breaking (not with the current revisions anyway).
Hey Chris!, I'm a big fan of your content! I love how in depth you are and precise you try to be with your numbers(absolutely love the detailed character builds with dpr breakdowns), so i wondered, why do you take the crit chance for a normal crit with advantage to be 10% instead of 9.75% ( which is what its supposed to be)
I noticed this in two of your recent videos and since you said you'd like any math improvements I'll explain a little, we know each face of a d20 has a 5% chance of occuring when we roll, so the natural chance to crit is 5%, it is easy to assume that when we double the dice, we exactly double the chance to crit, but its not that simple because when you roll 2 D20, and you get a 20 on your first dice it does not matter what you get on your second dice, you would've crit with or without advantage! the only times advantage does come in to play for giving crits is when you weren't critting on the first roll and the second roll ends up being a 20 so there's a 5% chance for you to crit on your first roll, and a 95% chance you don't crit on that roll, so the second dice comes in to play on that 95% thus 5% of 95% is your additional chance to crit when rolling with advantage or two dice ... That ends up being 95x0.05 =4.75% chance for the second dice to crit thus an overall crit chance of 9.75% ( it is 0.25% less than a perfect 10, because that 0.25% accounts for when we roll with advantage and get 20 on both dice, and that does nothing for us, we could've gotten a crit with either die, and Rolling 20 on both doesn't give any additional chance to crit so it's wasted potential of sorts)
Having your crit range extended on the other hand still gives you a 5%flat increase per extra number that also leads to a crit because now you're just adding more faces on the same diceroll that can lead to a crit.. so a 19-20 crit range is 10% chance to crit and 18-20=15% !
I know you're more than capable of crunching the numbers yourself, but here's the basic numbers for all those that just want it quick and easy :
TLDR:-
Regular crit rangeChance to crit= 5%
Regular crit range chance to crit with advantage = 9.75%
Regular crit range chance to crit with elven accuracy advantage = 14.2625%
Extended crit range (19-20 chance to crit= 10%)
Extended crit range chance to crit with advantage = 19%
Extended crit range chance to crit with elven accuracy advantage =27.1%
Max extended crit range (18-20) crit chance= 15%
Max crit rate chance with advantage= 27.75%
Max crit rate with elven accuracy advantage=38.5875%
Please feel free to correct me if I have been wrong in any place here !
One of the homebrew weapons I used in my campaign allowed the player to Parry melee attacks against them. If they are hit with a melee attack they get the opportunity to roll a D20 and if their roll is higher than their attackers, they block the strike instead. I could see this becoming a weapon mastery instead of Flex...
I really like the idea of applying "Topple" when you beat the AC by a certain amount. Both easy to understand and it makes sense thematically.
I don't think Topple is really going to add a lot of saving throws in reality. It's likely once for fighters and probably only when they have multiple attacks. Casters can already cast saving throw spells or cantrip each round--with multiple saves for AoE. Knocking enemies prone also gives disadvantage to any ranged attackers in the party so it should be used with discretion.
Some other ideas for flex, playing off the idea that these weapons are supposed to be "Versatile" in combat:
1. When you make a one handed attack with this weapon, your next two handed attack with it this turn has advantage. When you make a two handed attack with this weapon, your next one handed attack with it this turn has advantage.
2. When using a flex weapon and making an attack with either your strength or dexterity modifier, you can add the other modifier to the attack's damage (maximum of 3).
3. If you make a one-handed attack on your turn with a flex weapon, you can use your bonus action to make a two-handed attack with the same weapon.
Can't wait for your opinion on the twin spell metamgic
You had me laughing out loud with your condition to get advantage in every attack 😂
Attacking all creatures in your reach with a great weapon is not videogamy: that's the whole point of real life greatswords. They were area denial weapons for bodyguards etc. Just put "hema greatsword" in youtube search and see.
My immediate thought as well.
Vex being advantage against that creature is a good limitation. Sometimes there are lots of weaker enemies.
I really like these types of in depth content, and I have a request, could you make a video analising how each fighting archetype (like two weapon fighting, two handed weapons, halberts, sword and board, ranged and thrown weapon) compare to one another in this New system?
My initial thought with the Light Weapon issue was that the problem was with being able to unequip as part of the action, thus still allowing multiple thrown weapons to be utilized in a single hand, but likely if someone in reality needed to quickly throw multiple blades, they would at least need use of their free hand to assist in the action. Thus I am in agreement that the light weapon property needs to state some reference that the offhand is utilized or equipped with the second weapon.
Hey Chris! Great video! But don't forget that OneD&D has the heroic inspiration mechanics, and a human fighter or a champion fighter might have advantage on the first attack in first round, triggering Vex for the next attacks. Still, I think it's a good option, but not overwhelming strong as it might seem. Lucky feat should also do this job.
a human martial in general really
The AC +1 for one handed and +2 for two handed sounds fantastic
Its basically the same as having a shield. And if you do have a shield its still +1. So many times have felt penalized for not having a shield
Double nick weapons should allow you to also use your bonus action to attack.
Thanks Chris
I think this will encourage Rapier (Short Sword) and Main Gauche (Dagger) as a standard fighting style.
Hey Chris, when you wrote that guide way back when, could you ever imagine that you'd be making videos like this as a career?
Way to go, congratulations, and thanks for all the awesome content.
"that guide", my man treantmonk had a LOT of guide content yearssss back on the WotC boards
@@ThexInsidexManplease don't misunderstand. I'm not taking anything away from his other work by saying that there was a specific guide that generated a lot of "fame" back in the day. My point is that what was a side interest is now how he feeds his family, and I'm really proud of him for doing that. It's hard work, and he's a good role (or roll) model for anyone interested in doing the same.
Ahh no worries. I had 2 people separately think he was famous for one thing or another whereas it's been a longgggg ride and a fair bit of evolution for both D&D and him + the other OG's of the current scene, who were once the new guys
@@ThexInsidexManI appreciate it. My first edition to play was 2nd, but my first books were 1st edition. I was aware of TM for a long, long time, but not so much to have been on the WotC boards back in the early internet days.
@@migueldelmazo5244 word, I got into D&D when 3e dropped, and one of the older mentors/game shop type guys (my buddys uncle) showed us 2E later on.
3.5 was where we got addicted and where i started DMing. Treantmonk and some other guide-series like the "The Quintessential (Class) and stuff made my life infinitely easier when designing all those npc's and and plotlines.
They rock
A feature to use instead of flex could be something like "A versatile weapon gets you a precise control of where you hit with it. Once per turn, when wielding this weapon two handed, ou can ignore the AC of a creature when you make an attack roll. Instead, consider its AC to be 10 + DEX modifier + the shield bonus, if it's wearing one." It's a way to enable into the game more fancy swordfighting moves, such as aiming for armpits, behind the knee, or the neck of armored enemies, or between the junctions of the armor of a bug, or for the battleaxe, the sheer brute force of the attack smashing causing damage through armor.
It also enables the fantasy of a lot of action heroes, where they wield a longsword two handed and nothing else. As it is, the games offer no benefit other than a free hand, if you go to battle with a versatile weapon and no shield or anything. If you can go into battle with just a longsword two handed, you'd be better with a greatsword.
I love that Vex is vexing to calculate
Push corrects Crusher's "move them any direction" flaw, too.
If I'm not mistaken, you can add Sap to other weapons in the Fighters 7th level feature, because that is replacing the current property of the weapon. So you can replace a Longsword's Flex with Sap. However, Sap says "No OTHER properties" so you then couldn't add a second property with the Fighters 13th level feature.
That's how I read it anyway.
The moment Samurai fighter is updated to OneD&D, I can see some people who saw that light weapon text making a brooding ronin type who only ever unsheathes their blades to strike quickly, then sheathes them again. (Y'know, to justify the one-handed weapon juggling)
I love the hilarious mental image of a person hastily swapping between two identical weapons before swinging it.😂
I wish there was a shield option, like reduce damage equal to the shields AC or slam you could do with it.
Maybe a reaction like some fighting styles, but it helps you defend yourself.
One of the things you may not have noticed with Nick and Vex. Your main hand weapon is likely to have Vex. Your off hand is then going to eat that Vex and break the Vex chain. So each turn, you’ll start without advantage on your main hand and have to hit it to get off hand advantage.
Good thinking!
Flex: One-handed grants +1 to-hit and +1 AC, to lean into the dueling style (parrying, longer arm reach). Two-handed grants -1 AC, -1 to-hit, and +5 to damage, to lean into a more reckless and aggressive style.
Adds way more flavor, mechanical impact, and flexibility for different style of martials.
"On the first attack in a combat you will never have advantage" - Heroic Inspiration would like a word 😉
It sound interesting to be able to throw two daggers using light weapon property and basically do two attacks.
Gives some base to the ninja style of play. I say, jeep ut as is, but have it so you cannot equip a weapon if you unequiped one. Which I think is the case. You can only equip or unequip a weapon as part of an attack, but you can only draw it as part of a thrown weapon attack.
A great breakdown as always. Light Weapon definitely needs fixing. It feels hard to keep track of changes to Two Weapon Fighting.
Looking back, I don't know that having Cleave automatically do damage to other creatures works. A scenario could arise where a boss, surrounded by minons has a high AC, but the minions, being minions, do not. The player is then incentivized to hit the minions simply to ensure damage against the boss.
Also, Flex does allow the higher damage while keeping a hand open for a shield, effectively giving a +2 to AC even at the higher damage level.
Flex replacement- tactical positioning
Once per round If an enemy enters or leaves your reach you may take a 5ft step
Another thing for Nick is to have it activate regardless if it is the first or second weapon used (i.e. Club/Dagger or Dagger/Club makes no difference).
Another pro for Graze is that certain builds are MAD. Paladin comes to mind here as often you want to boost CHA as well as STR. With Graze there's of a penalty for leaving STR at 18 while you boost CHA to 18 first.
Great point! And guaranteed damage is a pretty big deal. That factors into deciding which enemies to attack next.
I suspect an Elven Accuracy Vex/Push Archer FIghter will be tons of fun.
Interesting rider to sap: "if you hit a surprised creature with this weapon, it must reroll it's initiative, and use the new result if it is lower.
One note about Nick: While a Fighter won't benefit from using 2 weapons with Nick, other classes who pick up the Weapon Mastery feat won't mind since if you're only getting that 1 mastery choice to begin with. I think improving Nick so that using 2 weapons with the Nick property get bonus damage will disproportionately favor the single mastery characters more than the Fighters and Barbarians who can reasonably use a different weapon in the other hand without much opportunity cost.
I think there are two classes that will benefit more from Vex:
1) Rogues with a Fighter dip. This doesn't necessarily apply to a Barbarian dip as they have Reckless Attack (it might with a Monk dip but we haven't seen them yet) but typically melee rogues have to do a whole "hide/move in/attack" and then hope that either an ally gets within 5' of the target or that target dies before your next round, or else you need to disengage to try it again. (typically) If you have Vex, you can turn that first advantage into a second advantage. I'd probably want to do something like shortsword and dagger, so that I can get Vex with my main attack, Nick with my off-hand, and still have my Cunning Action.
2) Barbarians. Reckless Attack is great, but there are times you wish you weren't always giving your enemies advantage. If you have a weapon with Vex, you could Reckless Attack to start and use that to get advantage in the future. This may bring down your damage die, but I could see it working well with a sword-and-board Barbarian, going for a more Spartan or Hoplite feel of using a shield and a short sword.
Flex is a problem also in that, it is the only mastery that affects sword and board wielders. I think it was intended for that purpose.
My proposed fix is:
Flex (or some other name) - If you are wielding this weapon in one hand and a shield in the other, you can make a shield slam as a bonus action. Shield slam does 1d4 damage and they have to make a strength saving throw or be pushed back 5ft.
But I would like to see shields get a little bit of work done to them. More variety and maybe their own masteries.
Nick: If you are wielding two weapons with the Nick property, these weapons also gain the Cleave property. You can gan two additional attacks if you use two weapons with Nick, but you need to spread the damage.
Vex is all about rogues. Pick one: Nick or Vex.
Topple: If a target succeeds at the saving throw, it automatically succeeds on saving throws against your use of the Topple property until the start of your next turn.
Oh, I hate that for Topple. That means you never get more than one attempt, and makes the effect much less reliable.
One way to get Versatile weapons to potentially be used as two-handed weapons would be to alter the Great Weapon Master feat so that it reads "Heavy or Versatile weapons when used in two-hands" and thereby gains the feat's benefits. It would still not be used as often as a heavy weapon but a player can make a thematic choice and not be too far behind as a result. Just 1 or 1.5 damage behind greataxe/great sword and the same damage as polearms but no reach.
Push loses power as you increase in level because you start facing huge or bigger creatures more often.
The Light Weapon property has been glitched in the way Tree describes for the last 2 playtest cycles. I wrote about it in the survey both times. No response yet. However, they finally changed Equipping or Unequipping because nearly every youtuber was reading it incorrectly. You don't and never did have the ability to equip and unequip both before and after. The word "or" means one or the other but not both. To be one or the other or both, it should have been written as "and/or". But they went with "either/or" which still leaves some ambiguity though I think it leans toward one or the other but not both. I ask the commenters, can you both equip and unequip the same weapon (equpping before you attack and unequipping after you attack) or no?
Someone with a former education in statistical probabilities (just graduated from Mizzou) Though this is more of a calculus thing
The equation is Y1=(0.84xY)+(0.6x(1-Y) Where Y1 is the next iteration of Y. y is a limit that approaches, 0.79 but never reaches 0.79. But it gets to 0.79.
If you have ways of giving yourself advantage that aren't contingent on your chance to hit as is, you can raise that number to a max of 0.8016, but that's not very much to gain. But using it to gain advantage on your first attack can get you there instantly while also skipping those first 4 attacks of build up