Saw your video, then saw your specific comment "They just wanted edgelird eren" Damn, never heard that before (buzzlightyear meme) 🥱 Refer to Chapter 6 when Eren killed two human traffickers. Was this not edgy Eren? Refer to Chapter 1/2 when Eren, with tears in his eyes, swore to kill all titans to avenge his mother who was EATEN ALIVE by one. Now let me start: Ending Defenders say we should give, we should **present**, arguments that aren't just mindlessly hating. Firstly, its not mindless hate? Second, even if we do, Ending Defenders don't give a damn😂 "Explain why the ending is bad with actual evidence from the story--" Okay, did that. Evidence given. Time spent explaining what went wrong. Citing chapters with character dialogue. "Oh... W.. well, what did Isayama do to you? Did he piss in your boots? Did he kill your parents?" Calm down, son. Im just doing what you asked us to do, and now you're angry we're doing it? Isn't "giving evidence" what you people were harassing us to do? "Just move on" Sounds like you guys just want us to move on so there wont be any hate on this "masterpiece" 😂 Can you see my problem here? Backstory: i moved on from the ending TWO years ago, but a year and a bit ago an Ending Defender dragged me back because they claimed we weren't giving evidence. They were smug about it too, so I responded. Now it's too much? NOW we should move on? We loved the story just as much as you guys 🙄
@@olafsomethingI'm not interested in collaborating, brother. Sorry, I'm actually a bit stressed out irl with work lmfao 😂 If you want perspective from an Ending Hater, I'm currently explaining the thematic message of a complete Rumbling via biblical parallels. And then explaining the importance of Historia and her pregnancy. Obviously with chapter citations included 😮💨
@SerenityOceania Well, the video definitely wouldn't be for the near future because I have other videos planned first. But I want to one day make one big video essay where I express my love for Attack on Titan and why I personally think it's one of the greatest pieces of fiction ever written, as well as why it's a piece of art every writer should take notes of when writing their own stories. However, I feel it would be pretty ignorant to make a huge eulogy about it without addressing the critiques the show has. And who better to fill that part than the man himself? I mean, as I said in my video, you have such an extensive knowledge on the series so to have your take in my video would give it so much more depth. If I could just have a personal brief summary of your opinion consisting of the main bullet points on what you hated (Ymir's character, Eren's retconning, the Cringevengers Eren Mikasa vs Eren Historia, ...) or how you would've hoped/thought the story would've ended (akatsuki no requiem?) and why, then I think that video could be amazing. It doesn't have to be too long of an explanation, just key elements of your critique, and then I could redirect people to your channel if they'd want to get more nuance/longer explanations of your critiques. Anyway, as I said, it's not for the near future so no need to rush. I'm definitely going to be making the video though and if I got a summarized take by you then I'm convinced we could make a great video. Idk if just a yt comment will do, though. If you wanna chat, hmu on twitter or something, offer stays up (until I've made the video ig lol) and if you're not interested then just thanks for watching the video. I genuinely didn't think it'd reach anyone and I'm actually pleasantly surprised that you even stumbled upon it haha. Your videos brought me to some new insights on AoT and taught me to be more critical of the ending myself. Would love to see what you'd come up with, it's up to you.
5:30 The communities hating on the AOT ending do have very good points and I agree, I’m kinda glad for these communities tbh because they helped me think about anything that I might have missed. They helped me understand their own frustration and there are some nice people that I have been able to ask opinions on why the ending was bad. I’ve come up with explanations to everything myself that “ending haters” will say are “just head cannons” even if the head cannons can make some sense but hey, we all have our own opinions and points of view, and also your video is linked in the r/titanfolk subreddit that mentioned this video in a post and that is how I found it. If you find a lot of comments hating on your video out of nowhere it could possibly be because of that, but we all have our own opinion, and we all should respect each others. I’ve grown up with AOT, started it when I was 11 or 12 about 9 years ago. Each time a new season came out I rewatched the seasons before it along with the new season. I am one of those people who others will say “you don’t understand” or “the ending is objectively trash” just because I have a different opinion. An example of something I will say that I have an understanding with other than Eren’s character(would take ages), something that everyone is calling a plot hole, would be Mikasa’s memory being manipulated. Mikasa is supposed to be half Ackerman+Azumabito and also half eldian and so is Levi, which is why she and Levi are both able to be connected with the paths. Eren manipulated Mikasa’s memories through the paths instead of the founding titan. The “only Ymir knows” line has thrown a lot of people off because people think Isayama meant that we aren’t supposed to be able to come up with reasons as to why things happened the way they did. I personally don’t think that though and as stupid of a line as it was I was able to make sense of AOT in my own way. 6:42 Yea this video is going to get hate because you said all of that…I feel like saying “move on” to the people that didn’t like the ending is like a sin bro, I wouldn’t like it if I hated the ending and someone told me to “move on” so I mean that line is a really harsh in my opinion to the “ending haters” because as you said, they still do have good points. But after you said that I doubt many people are going to watch your video until the end. 8:48 Yea they do talk well about many things and I have seen those videos but they never convinced me that the ending ruined AOT they just helped me find points in the story to think about. They make good arguments when it comes to why they themselves understood AOT the way they did but calling us “ending defenders” and saying we are “ill minded” is something that I take offense to, although you have likely also offended people by telling them to “move on” but oh well, AOT will forever be a masterpiece to me.
I am sorry, but what? "What has this taken from you? " Yum, I don't know. Maybe the decade of investment, both in time but more importantly in emotions. We hate the ending, Because we care. And yes. The ending ruins the series. Because you can't focus on a series that character assassinated the bloody protagonist,, that embodied the philosophy of the series (at least before the ending in which that philosophy also burned) just because some cool side character exists
Yeah, okay, I get that. But you're "free", right. Doesn't that mean you're also free to just move on if the show annoys you so deeply? Don't get me wrong, I feel for you, I think I'd feel the same as you if I hated the ending that badly that I felt like it ruined the entire series for me. But also, it was our free choice to invest our time and passion into this show, Isayama didn't force us to read his manga, on the contrary, he stated his insecurity about his writing on multiple occasions. But I totally understand the feeling of your frustration of seeing a story you love crumble before your eyes. The same happened to me at a certain point with Doctor Who, when a new head writer completely ruined the Doctor's character, turning him from a simple mad man with a magic box to a timeless omnipotent god or some shit. I saw a figure that I had made my role model since I was 9 years old just suddenly disappear. So when that happened, I dropped the show and moved on to other stuff, but I still love the seasons I grew up with, and I still rewatch a bunch of clips and episodes. And at the same time... there's so much other great stuff out there besides AoT (or Doctor Who for that matter), instead of caging yourself in your hatred for this one show, why not go out and explore new shit? I promise you it's worth it. Continuing on an obsession based on hate really won't make you happy in the long run I think, unless it actually fills you with gratification, in which case, by all means go ahead, I might be an idiot for simplifying it like that. I feel like this comment might sound a bit preachy, I don't mean to come across like that, but I genuinely hope you find new shows you're passionate about through and through and don't feel like they dissapoint you in the end. Also, thank you for watching, I actually really appreciate it, even if you disagree with me.
@@olafsomething Don't get me started on Doctor Who. If you jumped wagon when Moffat took over completely at least you are lucky you didn't experience the Mary Sue dumpster fire phase of the Doctor. One thing you might not get, is that you are taking examples of people complaining about a series in a context that people discuss the series. It's not like they are ranting for three hours straight during dinner. Nor that they don't watch other shows. At least I hope so. And now it is even more topical because you anime watchers finally caught up and even saw a better version that still wasn't enough to fix the issues. Nerds of any kind are passionate. I can find people arguing about football games and titles of decades past. Nothing new here. Final point, we ain't talking Naruto here. You can enjoy Pain for example and even madara despite the ending, because of the cool factor. The story doesn't demand much from you. It's a battle shonen that you turn your head of and allow the power fantasy to flow through. AoT isn't like that. I was religiously waiting for it to end to add it to my book library. The story was complex, the characters were nuanced and the build up of Eren along the tracks of freedom is nothing short of a masterpiece. Most people Eren changed after the basement. That's not true. Eren was shifting slowly based on previous experiences and comrade deaths (super eye patch wolf has an excellent essay on that I believe. Might be some other guy tho). Point is AoT isn't a manga simply. It's a great work of literature. Sure I have moved on. Before the anime I hadn't really thought about it. But it will never go away, same way the Moffat era won't go away, same way the Last Jedi won't go away. It's it's healthy to be frustrated about all those things once in a while, because they actually robbed parts of you.
@@olafsomething "okay, for the sake of argument, if the water rises 10 ft, don't you think the people would just sell their house and move" we were so close to greatness, the author didn't have to do anything, just let the rumbling finish and show how the characters deal with their traumas, live their lives and maybe end with the 8 pages but noooo, he watched one cour of avengers and thought "hey this is cool, this would be an epic finale for my magnum opus" and fcked it all up
@@countpythagoras On the topic of Naruto, I do think it's very funny how one of the themes of the series is hard work vs talent and it's revealed that Naruto is the reincarnation of ninja Jesus. That makes the Naruto vs Neji fight so funny in retrospect, since Neji is the actual underdog in that battle.
This is such a nuanced, well-thought out video not just about AOT but about going through life in general, and what truly matters at the end of the day. Great work 👍
I had a very similar reaction to the ending. I read the manga ending when it came out, thought the conversation felt a bit rushed but was ultimately satisfying, and loved the final page/message. Then saw the HATE. THEN did the research, to see why it was just "SOOOO BAAAAD". But I still conclude that a good chunk of it comes from folks not entirely understanding Eren's character, which I found pretty consistent throughout the whole story. I don't care if the writing was "an accident." I love Attack on Titan.
Me too, I also think people's dissapointment came from the fact that Eren's character culmination was up in the air for a while since we never got his actual pov for the final part of the story, so when we got to really see him as "the real Eren" again (as opposed to the mastermind sigma male bad boy edgelord villain Eren), people who wanted him to be a flawless complicated joker-esque villain felt betrayed. I get their frustration a bit, but also I feel like that would be a kind of problematic character seeing how romanticised and idolized Eren was when he was in that edgelord stage of his character. I think exposing him for being a helpless teenager was a great move to expose him as a loser by Isayama.
@@olafsomething"expose him as a loser" made me giggle i feel like eren was a great character and i don't understand how people would like edgelord eren better than a character with an actual background, feelings and motivations.
@@olafsomething Except that the "edgelord Devil mastermind" like you want to describe IS the real Eren. He IS the 9 years old kid who killed by himself 2 adults kidnappers. For this ending makes sense you have to literally erase Eren's INNER Thoughs on 138 chapters. And assume that Eren have dementia or lies to himsef. Everything on chapter 139 is contradiction from what he Said in others chapters Sorry but his character get retconed. Even Isayama himself said he dont like Eren, he forget what he wrote and Yuki kaji made him understand Eren a bit. You can like the ending but say that Eren before 139 was always posessive with mikasa and a coward afraid of death is insanity People who say this just want to ride Isayama at this point
@@lain5858 The little kid murdering those "subhuman animals" is a great demonstration of how funamentally broken at his core Eren was his entire life. Completely fueled by and a slave to his own rage. Nothing about that prevents someone from confiding their deepest feelings, fears, and desires, to their best friend, when facing the end. Eren is a little broken idiot who touched the powers of a god, and the ENTIRE post-time skip plot is the result of that. Remember the little whiney crybaby who was asking Historia to kill him? Still Eren. Still Eren right to the end. Eren was never the "mastermind" type. He had one solution to all life's problems. Fight. Kill. Rar.
Thank you so much for your perspective! It’s lovely to see someone being open to other people’s opinions, and sharing his own passion for the story, without taking it more seriously than the real people involved.
bro you so underrated new sub, i also completely agree with you this ending was satisfying and not terrible by any means. maybe there were smol plotholes here and there but its not like everyone could survive and live happily ever after or something
Great video. Glad u enjoyed the ending. Just want to point something out. I myself am in the "I cant rewatch AoT after the ending" group. For context I watched the anime 6 times. But I think the problem here is that it depends on what grabbed u in AoT, which in my case was the story, the plot twists all that. When I was rewatching it I was always surprised by the amount of little hints of what's really going on, the "wait now that I know Reiner is the armor titan this reaction means soooo much more" moments. This goes to the not so good stuff. When I see Dina Titan I go "Oh look it was Eren... That sent her here...". When I see "hobo Eren" cutting his leg off I dont go "HOLY SHIT HE LOST IT FOR REAL" I go "Oh so... he knows what will happen but does nothing? Wait but that..." and the plot holes it opened up. If you were into AoT for the action alone those things will not annoy u as much cuz u can go watch the legendary Levi going after Kenny scene (Actually just perfect scene peak animation) and be happy. But if u were story over action... Things CAN (different people different reactions) make it all terrible. Again great video :) Hope you remember how u loved the ending... For 10 years at least
Thank you! Don't get me wrong, I loved it for the story too. I love writing and experiencing well thought out stories more than I'm attracted to action just like you, and I thought the ending was really good, even if it might have opened up some plotholes as you say, or at the very least makes you ask questions. Personally, though, I like stories that make you ask questions, even if it feels kind of weird with Attack on Titan. Thank you for watching!
Eren still kept moving forward just as he said so there was no problem with that. Also Eren becoming the perpetuator of his own tragedy is a well fitting ending for his character and also would you also not mind when Eren manipulated his father to kill the Reiss Family
The way the rumbling was stopped was so stupid. Armin somehow ends up in paths and on top of that convinces Zeke that life does have value and to appreciate the little things when he’s the last person who could believe something like that. This is a guy who believed being born was the worst thing that ever happened to him and who was sitting with these kinds of thoughts for years and years in paths while the rumbling was happening. And then Armin just appears and shows him a leaf and then Zeke does a 180 on his entire life philosophy. And the fact that Zeke dying stops the rumbling itself is also stupid when Ymir rejecting Zeke, a royal’s will, was such an important part of the plot and shows that he was no longer needed for Eren to use the founder. And then when Eren’s founder body is blown up by Armin he’s still able to turn into a colossal titan form despite having his connection to the founder severed and Zeke dead, so it looks like Eren and Ymir were still in control of the founder despite Zeke after all. The cabin dream sequence is also never explained and shouldn’t happen because the story flat out says to the reader that there are special bloodlines like the Ackermans and Orientals who can’t have their memories altered by the founder in any way, yet the cabin vision still happens and after Eren’s death the memories Eren supposedly erased suddenly come back to Mikasa along with everyone else’s despite that not being able to happen to Mikasa by the rules set in the story. I’m not even going to talk about Ymir loving King Fritz all along or Eren killing his mom because everyone and their mothers have ripped on that already and it’s obvious how abhorrent those retcons are. Finally onto Eren’s character itself the way the rumbling arc butchered his character is just tragic. Throughout the entire series it was thoroughly explained that Eren does not love Mikasa back. The scarf scene at the end of season two especially was had nothing to do with his romantic feelings but was instead Eren’s promise to himself to never stop clinging on to life. Yet all of a sudden Eren has feelings for Mikasa for no reason, and the cherry on top of that is him crying over the fact that he never got to score which everyone loves to say is him being vulnerable and that Eren never changed and was the same “whiny kid” throughout the whole series which is so pathetic and there is so much wrong with that sentiment. (Ignoring the fact that Armin only ever gets mad or upset at Eren and punches him is when Armin mentions how Mikasa felt and how Eren treated her during Eren and Armin’s fistfight instead of the millions, maybe even billions of people that Eren killed in the rumbling yet the most acknowledgement we ever get out of that is Armin making a little shocked face when Eren briefly mentions that oh yeah btw 80% of humanity died lol), Eren throughout seasons 1-3 (which these ending defenders call his true self) never cried or grieved over some inane garbage like a girl’s feelings. When Eren broke down during his time as a scout it was always him either grieving over the deaths of others or him lamenting his powerlessness. Calling him some pathetic kid who never changed is a severe disservice to his character and who he is even prior to his development between seasons 3 and 4. These are the same guys who will say that because Eren was just an angry brat who never changed, his character during season 4 was all him acting, when that’s objectively false because you can literally see his internal thoughts and feelings during season 4 which are so much more developed, mature, and advanced than his season 1-3 self. What the rumbling arc does is takes all that development and maturing Eren went through and throws it all out the window for the sake of trite and bland themes like war bad, war never change, humans always fight. And this isn’t even me being some edgelord lamenting the fact that we can’t have edgy man bun Eren anymore. Hobo Eren with the long untied hair in Marley was my favorite rendition of him and the depth and amount of growth Eren showed while in Marley and confronting Reiner was all so incredible yet now ruined because instead of building on that the series later completely betrays that and ruins Eren’s character. Eren’s goals and motivations through the rumbling are also ridiculous. The only option Eren has left is to do a full rumbling where the entire world, which has openly and officially declared itself as Paradis’ enemy is destroyed if Eren does not want: 1) his people to continue to be persecuted 2) the curse of the titans to continue to run rampant (by the way it’s amazing how the titans are heavily implied to come back in the epilogue pages) and 3) Historia to be forced to continue the cycle of Royals being eaten by their own children which is again one of the strongest and most important plot points that was again ruined. And the story even outright shows this to the audience. Eren spent months and months looking for any different solution, basically begging for there to be another way yet nobody was able to come up with any solution, and whatever solution his friends came up with after his death clearly did not work because we all know how Paradis was bombed to shreds after the main cast died. And as a side note it’s not Eren’s “victory” that his friends get to live to old age and die of natural causes before Paradis is burned to the ground because that’s ridiculous and Eren isn’t someone who just blindly cares about only his friends and gives middle fingers to anybody who’s not a main character because he cared about the humanity he knew on the Island, he cared about the people he killed in the rumbling, so that point is also invalid. I mentioned Historia earlier, whose character is an equal tragedy. Historia was one of the most important characters in the story, and a literal second protagonist at times. She draws so many parallels to Eren and Ymir yet her character got sidelined and forgotten about during the rumbling arc. The pregnancy subplot also led to nothing despite the attention the story gave it + the farmer was a stock character who was never given the explanation needed for such an emphasized plot point, and no this is not me being some deranged shipper or anything. I do not care who Eren bangs. I care about the story being good and not having its writing and characters fall apart abruptly like how it did in the ending. In summary, no matter how you look at it Attack on Titan’s ending is straight awful, and nearly completely ruins one of the most popular and promising anime of the past decade, a story with characters I related to a little and became invested in, as did many others. I am not here to be overly pessimistic and/or compare it to game of thrones because I’ve never seen that, I’m just taken aback (SEVERE UNDERSTATEMENT) by borderline braindead MAPPA-consuming drones who eat up whatever is given to them without any further thought and then proceed to flood any kind of forum with the most vapid and useless white noise of thoughts and opinions much to the detriment of literally anyone capable of thinking and communicating like an adult. And for the record I’m not throwing shade at anyone or any other anime, and I’m not saying this about the guy who made this video. If you’re reading this i don’t think you’re a mappa drone or whatever. If you like mappa or Jujutsu Kaisan or Chainsawman or even Attack on Titan’s ending, that’s fine, in fact mappa did great work on taking these last chapters, chock full of atrocious writing and turning them into something actually presentable. It’s just that those kinds of people are out there and to say their entire personalities and who they are as people drive me up the wall is the understatement of the year. And if anyone else hates how Eren’s character ended up I can’t recommend the Reverend Insanity novel & Code Geass enough. Fang Yuan and Lelouch are the guys Mikasa tells Eren not to worry about. P.S. I disagreed with most of this video but the point you make about showing positivity and going over the depth and intricacies this series has was very well said.
Zeke never wavied about his plan. At least not 180. But, meh. I got your point. How can Armin convince him by using the baseball that come out of nowhere. But it's always there, different perspectives. Perspectives matter. As for the rest, I got those, too. Just not for me. I watched Code Geass as well. Never thought that is bad or good, just the perspectives I can learn from it.
Your points are good but to be honest I just feel all the contradictory points just kinda make them feel more human people contradict themselves all the time sometimes without noticing emotions run us and love can ruin or make people stronger life’s not one way
I think its fair to point out all the flaws in AOT writting. Why? Because FUTURE writters would not make the same mistakes. And yes, that ending destroyed everything. All the narratives did not got anywhere.
I used to be like the haters, but not for Attack on Titan. I was like them for Star Wars, especially after The Last Jedi. I used to be so full of hate and anger at how the story turned out and what was done to this franchise that I love, but over time I just... moved past it. Even now I see people in the comments of this video claiming that they hated the ending because they loved the story more than the people who liked it, which is EXACTLY what I did with Star Wars. It's so weird seeing this from the outside and it honestly just makes me really sad. I hope these people will one day realize that their level of hatred for the ending is unhealthy and let go, moving on to other franchises and other stories that are fun and good, just like I did.
You can hate something for good reason. Of course you shouldn’t revel in it and make it guide your life, but that isn’t the same thing as having standards. I think the Disney Star Wars haters are righteous in their anger, and have good justifications that are grounded in writing principles. I think the same applies to AOT haters. It has a myriad of plot holes, character assassinations, and thematic flubs in it’s final arc. Hating something isn’t wrong, their level of hatred is born from the level of joy they had with the earlier parts of the series. You cannot have one without the other. I don’t think you would say the same if they liked the ending. “I used to love the AOT ending, but then I moved on”. Joy and hate can both be constructive, you shouldn’t be biased against hate that is grounded
@@pphaver871 Dear *god* it's like looking in a mirror... I can't decide if its funny or sad how much you're reminding me of myself, especially with the defensive attitude and needless justifications. A part of me *really* wants to engage with you, but I think it's better for both of us if I just don't. Have a good one. ❤
@@bobbobbobbobb You aren’t any better than me for forgetting. Quit this condescending attitude. I don’t feel these justifications are needless. It’s fine if you like moving on, but I enjoy talking about writing with my friends, and we enjoy ruthlessly criticizing things. Catharsis and joy are born from this process for us. If you don’t share this feeling, we don’t have to engage, but I don’t think you should feel superior to me, since I don’t feel the same to you. ;)
Expressing a wish for someone's death, being disrespectful, and harassing Isayama is absolutely unacceptable and foolish. We're all here because of him and the masterpiece he created. Attack on Titan is a complex web of plots, themes, ideas, characters, and world-building. Like any story, AoT can't be analyzed in isolation from the overall context. The beginning sets the stage to showcase the world and encourage further reading/watching. The beauty of the start lies in the potential unfolding before us. AoT promised beautiful, tragic, sad, and valuable plotlines, always delivering on those promises abundantly, making the story great. The consistency in motifs, character motivations, and Isayama's ironclad writing was broken in the ending. Many have articulated why the conclusion is disappointing, and I mostly agree. The ending ruins the entirety because the beginning and development sole purpose of existing is satisfying conclusion. I can't accept that the characters' sacrifices, their tragedy, and suffering were ultimately invalidated, and the cycle of hatred will repeat. What Attack on Titan left in me is a sense of hopelessness, whereas it always provided motivation for action. I respect your statement and its tone, but I think you are far from correct. So called ,,hate channels" and fanfic writers (long live No Requiem!) brought me more joy from the AoT than any AoT ending apologists, and ending itself.
Yeah, the ending is pretty bleak. I'm sorry you feel that way about it. But you're right, I'd just focus on Akatsuki no Requiem if you really hate it that badly, the people working on that are making a banger piece of art themselves. Thank you for watching, though, I appreciate your comment!
@@olafsomething The truth is, my feelings towards it aren't as negative as you might assume. I don't typically leave comments, and in fact, I had almost forgotten about Attack on Titan for a solid two years after the manga concluded. I had moved on. However, when the new ending emerged, I found myself inundated with comments about people like me-those who weren't fond of the original ending. We were labeled as haters, accused of not understanding the story or its overarching message, and told that disliking something was inherently wrong. Your argument about appreciating the positives in life is valid, and I acknowledge that. However, using it to dismiss any form of criticism with statements like, "If you didn't like it, just don't watch it," feels incredibly disheartening. Why engage in a conversation if we're only allowed to agree and put on a happy face? My intention with this comment isn't to sour your day, but rather to represent those who felt betrayed and disappointed by the ending. I commented your video, and I'm expressing these thoughts because you cared enough to consider the perspective of those who didn't share the same sentiments. Thank you for that.
"The ending ruins the entirety because the beginning and development sole purpose of existing is a satisfying conclusion." Wholeheartedly disagree, the purpose is to keep you interested and deliver the themes of the story, which, as you said yourself, got deliveresd by Isayama, but supposedly not the end. Still, sad that you didn't like the ending. But as I see it it's on you for not noticing what kind of story it evolved into. It isn't an idealistic "you need to push through and everything will be worth it" fairytale. This isn't Dragonball or Naruto. I would even go so far to say: You were so focused on "everything will be worth it" that you missed or dismissed the hopefull message Armin had to Zeke and Eren.Which is a light in the dark world of AOT.
The story puts it in your head that conflicts will always exist and humanity will always fight each other. Erwin's speech before dying in a suicide charge hammers that point about their actions are not going to be meaningless, so the alliance saving 20% of humanity does not ruin anything or the character's journey due to eren not completing the rumbling. And that is the point of the ending.
Isayama did state that he felt like he needed more time with the ending, so that is why it might feel a little rushed. tbh, I love the ending, yeah some parts about mikasa helping ymir was kinda not set up, but in the end, it was fitting and I loved it. yeah it doesn't go out with a massive bang like I thought it would. still loved it
9:15 invaderzz basically does what you describe here. He obviously doesn't think the show is perfect but that is irrelevant when you're watching a video trying to understand plot points in an anime. Giving explanations like Isayama "forgot about this" or "didn't set this up" just take the fun out of deep analysis videos like his. His commitment to finding explanations *within* the story makes his 3 long analysis videos rly interesting and fun to watch, I see you have watched one at 11:59. But his unserious tier list videos for each arc of the show are surprisingly entertaining too, he can spout off the most obscure facts and stories about the show while watching. His friend points to a random soldiers in the background and the man will reliably tell you their names are Keiji and Hugo.
Yesss invaderzzz' video has been in my reccomendation feed ever since the manga ended and the title and thumbnail were always way to teasing for me as an anime only haha. But I waited untill I finished AoT before watching his video and when I watched it I really enjoyed it. I didn't agree with all of it, but it definitely brought me to new insights. Thank you for watching btw!
I find it quite insulting to isayama's effort he put into attack on Titian's story when they say that it's success was an accident. I watched his interview about the warriors episode plot twist, he gave himself 10 days at the start of each month to write the chapter and plan ahead to the ending he had in plan (yes that ending), then the rest would be dedicated to drawing. he would spend hours just sitting or walking thinking about how to do the bertolt and reiner reveal before it came to him. he put in tremendous care to the series, and as an aspiring writer myself, all of that effort very easily gets overlooked.
I think Isayama is one of the most talented, respectable, timeless writers this world will know. I wholeheartedly agree with you. His planning ahead is out of this world and something any other (aspiring) writer should take note of.
Just accepted Eren is not a hero. Isayama has been trying to tell us since the start of the show. Trying to justify him and his action will disappoint you. And therefore hating the ending.
In this ending Eren literally died as a TRAGIC HERO. With everyone still loving him. WTF are you talking about? People who hate the ending wanted Eren to suceded as the DEVIL that Paradis need to get saved
an ending defender with a brain? NO I DON'T WANT THAT! jokes aside this was pretty entertaining. feels refreshing to hear an actual nuanced opinion from someone who likes the ending that isn't just "you didn't understand the story." subbed
7:19 it means if that was the vision the author had for eren the whole time, then he failed to give us that eren and made the eren we loved by accident
Attack On Titan is Art, Isayama is an artist and every art should be judged subjectively. A lot of people cannot understand that, they want to give their opinion and dragged it down into your throat, the probleme is that most people won't accept even if they have been convince. Most people that are screaming out loud that it's the best or the worst have surely didn't fully understand the show or the manga, so wheter you liked it or disliked it you must respect the work and the time given into making it, because story like that are so rare.
Here a comment in spanish. I can hear and understand perfectly english but i prefer write this in spanish to be able to express myself better. If you ever read this i would appreciate. En primer lugar, muy buen video. Attack on Titan no es solo mi anime/manga favorito, si no que mi obra en general favorita, y mi apreciación con ella fue evolucionando simultaneamente con mi apreciación al personaje de Eren. Attack on titan lo vi por primera vez cuando salio, en 2013 y yo tenía 13 años. Cuando vi la primera temporada, recuerdo que me gusto, pero tampoco me parecio una obra maestra como alguna gente aclamaba en ese tiempo, me gustaba más por ejemplo Death Note en ese tiempo. De igual manera el personaje de Eren me parecia "ok", funcionaba para la historia, pero no me gustaba tanto como otros personajes como Armin, Hange, Jean, Erwin e incluso Mikasa. Sentia a Eren como un personaje muy monotemático, cosas tipicas que decia la gente como "solo grita", "solo dice la misma cosa una y otra vez". Tenía sus momentos como cuando tapa el agujero o como cuando matan el escuadron de Levi, por lo que para mi solo cumplia con su papel como protagonista de la obra. Pasaron 4 años y salio la segunda temporada. Yo como explique anteriormente no era fanático del anime, pero me había gustado la primera temporada por lo que le di una oportunidad a la segunda temporada. Tal vez fue porque ahora estaba un poco más mayor y podía apreciar cosas que antes no notaba, pera esa temporada me hizo fan del anime que me hizo esperar con ansias la segunda temporada. E incluso me hizo apreciar a Eren un poco más, me seguía pareciendo un personaje que solo cumplia, pero la escena cuando se comen a Hannes, Eren colapsa, Mikasa ya dada por vencida en esa situación, pero Eren de alguna forma no se queda de sentado y logra levantarse para seguir luchando me hizo apreciarlo más. Tercera temporada parte 1, más de lo mismo que la segunda, me encanto y ahora sí el personaje de Eren me gustaba, principalmente por esos momentos conversando con Historia y por como se quiebra al pensar que era mejor no haber nacido y luego el remate del episodio "Bystander" con la mamá de Eren diciendo que él ya era especial por haber nacido en este mundo. Erwin en ese tiempo era mi personaje favorito, pero Eren ya me gustaba como protagonista y como personaje. El año 2019 tuve un periodo depresivo, tal vez porque era el año que entré a la universidad, pero eso año salio la Tercera temporada parte 2 que me dejó fascinado, sentía cada capitulo mejor que el anterior, y especialmente la última escena en la playa, donde esa frase final que deja Eren junto con la música, me hizo pensar que, a pesar que en ese momento mis 2 personajes favoritos eran Armin y Erwin, Eren tenía mucho potencial, como Attack on Titan tenía el potencial de ser una de las obras "Mainstream" mejor hechas. Obviamente el anime no era perfecto, tenía errores como falta de escenas y desarrollo como Marco (literal salio en pantalla como 7 escenas) y agujeros de guión como Berthold no ser capaz de desaparecer de forma instantanea como en la primera temporada en forma Colosal, pero aún así amaba la serie, no porque fuera perfecta, sino porque dentro de su imperfección tenía mucha genialidad. No pude aguantar la espera de la otra temporada, por lo que pasé directamente al manga. Leí y estaba fascinado, Marley, Gabi, Reiner, la batalla de Liberio y sobretodo Eren. Fue tal cual como lo predije, Eren se había vuelto de mis personajes favoritos en ese arco. Luego todo el arco de la Guerra en Paradis, Floch, Zeke, Yelena, la batalla en Shingashina. Por fin me había puesto al día (creo que fue cuando Gabi le disparó a Eren) y podía vivir el Hype cuando salia un nuevo cap. Además entre mes a mes me daba tiempo a revisar la obra desde sus inicios en el manga, dandome cosas que no salieron en el anime y apreciando aún más el personaje de Eren de cosas que no me había percatado, dejandome la sensación que el Eren actual tenía todo el sentido del mundo con los mostrados en los primeros capitulos. Entonces por fin se activo el Retumbar y Eren nos dice su "plan" en el capitulo 123 y en ese momento Eren se había vuelto mi personaje favorito de la obra. Attack on Titan se había vuelto mi segunda obra favorita (por detras de Evangelión), y se sentía que todo ya estaba servido para terminar de una gran forma. Si seguramente tal vez cuando llegamos a ese punto se sintio un poco apresurado, como que tal vez falto un poco más de construcción de mundo (literal en ese momento lo único que teniamos de referencia de como era el mundo fuera de Marley fue por un comentario de Udo), pero todo ya estaba servido para el último conflicto en la obra, cerrar algunas tramas y huecos y cerrar los arcos de personajes del elenco. Y entonces salio el capitulo 126, y fue la primera vez que sentí que Attack on Titan tuvo un mal capitulo. En ese momento pense "bueno, un mal capitulo lo tiene cualquier autor, nadie es perfecto". Pero entonces los siguientes capitulos aún sentia un bajon de calidad, no tan grande como el 126, pero estaba esa sensación ahí. Pero entonces llegaron los capitulos 130 y 131 y me devolvieron las esperanzas. Además Eren en esos capitulos se coloco dentro de mi Trinidad de personajes favoritos, junto a Shinji de Evangelion y Walter de Breaking Bad. Pero entonces los siguientes capitulos siguieron con ese bajón de calidad hasta llegar a la batalla final. En ese momento me dije "Okey Isayama, tuviste unos pequeños tropiezos al llegar aqui, pero llegó la hora de darnos una batalla final y un final que esté a la altura de tu obra". Entonces los siguientes capitulos fueron uno peor que el otro. Conveniencias, Plot Armor, Deux ex Machina hasta llegar al 138. Yo en ese punto ya estaba asumiendo que el final sería malo, pero mi único consuelo era que , por lo menos, Eren tendría un final digno para darle cierre a la historia, donde pudo acabar mejor, pero eso no arrunaría el viaje. Entonces el 139 llego... No podía creer lo que leía. No es que solo el final sea malo, sino que arruina gran parte de la obra y un poco de la obra en general. Momentos claves de la obra luego de la llegada al mar como la conversación de Eren y Reiner en la declaración de Guerra, Eren liberando a Ymir, Eren manipulando a Grisha, todos esos momentos perdieron importancia. La segunda parte de la obra giraba en torno a Eren y sus decisiones. En la primera parte de la obra Eren era el protagonista, pero dentro del contexto era una pieza clave para avanzar la trama pero que sus decisiones no afectaban necesariamente todo el rumbo de la obra. Como bien habrás visto en todos esos videos que analizan porque el final fue malo, todos concuerdan que Eren en el último capitulo sufrio un "retcon". Todo lo que se vivio anteriomente para llegar a ese momento perdio todo el significado. Nadie me podrá convencer que la razón de todo esto fue porque una rabieta de que el mundo no era como un libro que leiste. Además de Eren, a exepción de personajes como Gabi y Floch, y en menor medida Levi y Hange, todos sufrieron un final horrible. TODOS. Desde Armin hasta Annie. Habrá tramas secundarias como la familia de Sasha con Gabi que se pueden disfrutar, pero si tu trama principal es horrible, pues entonces la obra en general funciona mal. E incluso arruina las primeras temporadas desde EL INICIO (Eren enviando a Dina a que coma a su mamá). Cuando salieron las páginas extras, yo al inicio me reí de los que pensaban que el capitulo 139 original fue un buen final, pero a la vez fue frustante. Algunos personajes que murieron en las primeras temporadas se mantienen solidos como Erwin, pero otros como Eren Krueger se arruinan. Ver que Paradis era bombardeada era algo obvio que iba a pasar por lo desastrozo de lo anterior, pero a la vez frustante. No puedo ver el primer capitulo y disfrutarlo plenamente viendo la escena de Shadis diciendole a la mamá de Moses que al final no lograron nada, como la obra en sí. Personalmente y como gusto personal, si Eren ganaba y se mantenía en sus ideales sería mi gusto culposo al ver por fin al "villano de la historia ganar", pero siendo justos, para que los otros personajes tuvieron un buen cierre Eren debía perder (aunque quien sabe, capaz había una forma de concluir los otros personajes de gran manera con Eren ganando), pero no haciendole un retcon y que arruine todo lo anterior de la obra. Por todo esto me di cuenta que Attack on Titan es mi obra favorita, porque me di cuenta el dolor que me dejó fue tan grande por como en mi opinión se arruino la obra en general. Me acompaño en los malos y buenos momentos de mi vida. Debo darle credito a Isayama por eso, se mantendrá en mi corazón por lo menos 10 años, pero no de la forma que quería jaja. Como Eren en el capitulo 131 "Simplemente, no puedo aceptar un final así". Si leiste esto te agradesco tu tiempo. Saludos
I understand your arguments more than I understand some of the others. Personally, I like the somewhat unresolved nature of the ending because it exposes Eren for not having all the answers to a deep-rooted conflict from the last 2000 years, that he really *is* just an idiot kid who got his hands on a power he should've never have gotten his hands on. I think it exposes Eren as a weak person, though he has a strong resolve. I don't want to get into the politics of it, but I think it is a more fitting end for his character considering his actions. He is a tragic character stuck in his obsessions, which ultimately end up being destructive for everyone. Personally, I like it, and if it was retconned, I think the show is better off for it. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@olafsomething Gracias por responder. Mi problema con Eren es el "retcon". Eren igualmente puede dar ese mensaje que tú muestras si no hubiera sufrido ese "retcon". Antes del final nadie cuestionaba que era lo que Eren quería y cual era su objetivo. El mundo odia a los eldianos, especialmente a los de la isla. El mundo quiere ver muertos a todos los eldianos. A Eren le quedan pocos años de vida. Las opciones que se le presentan no le convencen, tanto la eutanacia, porque para él nacer es importante, ya que toda persona que nace ya es especial. El plan de los 50 años no lo quiere porque no quiere repetir el ciclo de hijos comiendose a sus padres y porque no cree que el mundo en algun punto perdone y entienda a los eldianos luego de un ciclo de odio de 2000 años, y que no los vean como mounstruo que se vuelven titanes. Eren quiere que sus amigos tengas vidas tranquilas y largas. Entonces decide ir por la respuesta más radical que es exterminar al mundo exterior, ya que el siempre ha sido una persona violenta que cuando ve al enemigo que amenaza su libertad y a sus cercanos los quiere matar. También sabe que acabará matando a inocentes como Ramzi y sabe que es una basura como Reiner, pero es la única forma que ve para acabar con el ciclo de odio. TODOS más o menos teniamos claros esos puntos. En el final, igualmente podrían presentarnos a Eren como bien dijiste como alguien debil que acabo con un poder mayor del que se merecía, que es un idiota al pensar que la solución a este conflicto sería simplemente matandolos a todos. Pero no haciendole un retcon, cambiando todas sus motivaciones diciendo que Eren hizo el retumbar no porque bajo su perspectiva era la única forma de proteger a la isla y a sus amigos, sino porque quería ver y vivir ese mundo libre que el veía en el libro de Armin. Para mi ese retcon de Eren fue muy estupido. Pero bueno, cada uno tienes sus puntos de vista sobre la obra. Ya han pasado 3 años del final de la obra, aún me quedan 7 años. Saludos.
First of all I've to commend you on the edits you made in this video. Secondly as someone said here, before hating something one has to scrutinize the content to such a degree. AoT before Marley Arc had a solid story, plotlines and intrigue. I'm not saying that post Marley arcs did not have any groundbreaking plots. However, after Chapter 131 (or in anime after Eren cries in front of Ramzi) things started to become EASY for Alliance. There was a time when scouts could not even handle 2 Shifters. And now a frigging team of Shifters from the past arise and everyone is alive. Many people say we hate Eren for crying. Okay first of all, Eren always cried. But the reason for crying matters each time except the ending. If Ending Haters are bad then Ending Defenders are just as bad. You mentioned Titanfolk. Did you even see AoT and SNK subreddit??? They make their own schizo post about making the ending the second coming of Christ levels
Heck they even made opinion polls about Shipping between various anime. And guess what? Eren Mikasa shipping is a greater love story than Kaguya Sama😂😂😂 (ACC to the so called Defenders)
aot had such a change on my life 10 years. I feel it was wasted but if i could tell myself to stop watching after 131. Id do it without hesistation. 131 was the last chapter i really enjoyed aot.
Really good video! I feel like your view is something most people lack, and it annoys me when I go on reddit. r/titanfolk is too focused on the bad, r/shingekinokyojin is too dismissive of their arguments and only focus on the good. I have some comments though. You said that even if the ending is bad it doesn't ruin the entire story, and in a literal sense you are correct. But I take that saying more that it undermines large portions of the story. To me it feels very underwhelming that all of the story, plot twists and so on that we've gone through all happens because Ymir loved king Fritz all this time, it feels very forced and unnatural. Also Eren saying things like "I'll slaughter every last one of those animals on this earth" in his inner monologue in the middle of the rumbling arc makes very little sense with the ending we got. Eren sending Dina to kill his mom is also unnecessary and somewhat ruins the beginning for me, it's not properly explained and could easily just be taken out without losing any relevance to the story. That being said, I'll for sure continue loving the series as a whole and rewatch it occationally, but I don't think it's completely invalid to say it ruins the story. In addition, while focusing on the things we love is a great sentiment, I think focusing on the bad can be a good thing as well. I think the backlash helps people see the faults in the writing, which for all we know might include the next generation of writers, stopping them from making the same mistakes. Or even more relevant, there are some fan endings being made, such as aotnr. It might not be the perfect ending either, but imo the theory it's based on is better than what we got. Focusing on the faults of the ending might push more people in the direction of these fan endings, which in turn gives them more support so they can continue making them. Not saying any of these fan endings are objectively better, but for those who look forward to them it might be a driving factor.
Hm, personally I don't feel like the moments you mention lose the thematic weight after the finale because I don't think people (even Eren) are always entirely consistent in their own goals/world views. But I also saw someone else in these comments mention how the ending sort of forms "the skeleton" of the story, and if the skeleton is rotten, the entire story feels a bit empty. I'm just happy I don't feel that way in regard to AoT. Also, yes, I definitely explained my view a bit binary in this video, but obviously, being critical of media is necessary. I'm just talking about the overload of hate when I say I get annoyed at the response on AoT's ending.
@@olafsomething what do you feel about the Ymir thing? I can understand Eren to some extent, even though I don't agree. To me it feels like Isayama tricked us just for the sake of it. Not witholding information, but showing evidence to the contrary just so he could "surprise" us in the end. But Ymir loving Fritz makes no sense to me and cheapens the whole backstory for the titans. Kind of like the skeleton analogy. It doesn't completely ruin the story as I can just ignore this "twist", but it's hard to completely ignore it.
@@ulrikbredland6965I've been having a hard time coming up with a good conclusive opinion on Ymir's character tbh. I mean, love is a major theme in attack on titan and specifically the dichotomy between love and sacrifice. But I think to just say "Well she suffered from stockholm syndrome" is also getting off easy and a bit to lame of an explanation for a twist that big and so late into the show. I mean, Ymir definitely didn't lead a normal life, right? And we saw that she wanted to marry and love another person ever since she was a child. And well, king Fritz sort of dictated her life, she was mentally subservient to him, and I think that her "love" for king Fritz was more a projection than anything else. He was the most present man in her life, so her only option to attain her goal of love was to trick herself into loving him? I'm just projecting personal experiences onto it too, so I don't really think this is a very good take hahahaha. If I'm being honest I don't know exactly how I feel about it yet, it's definitely one of the only parts that I'm not entirely sure about whether I like it or not yet. I've only had about a month time to let the finale truly sink in so I think it's too early for me to call it plain bad or good. But personally I think that in and of itself is great, that my opinion might change on it over time. I mean that's kind of another reason why I do like the ending in its entirity, because I feel like I can interpret it differently as time goes on and change my opinion on it. Right now ai love it, but in a year I might hate it, and in another year I might love it again, depending on whatever I go through in life myself. Those are my favorite types of shows. It's why sonny boy is another one of those three shows that I'd rate a 10/10, there's so much open to interpretation, and the question of whether it's pretentious crap or whether it's amazing art is all up to what you yourself think it is. I just love that actually haha.
@@olafsomething good take, although I'm not convinced myself :) I think the Ymir twist is close to being ok, but the notion that she loved him is just weird. I don't think it's realistic in any way that she convinces herself that the king that did nothing but abuse her is the one she loves. I've seen some rewrites where they say "she loved her children" instead, and that this love extends to the rest of the eldians down the line. Wouldn't explain why Mikasa was the one to end the titan thing, but in itself it would be much more believable. On the second part, I share your sentiment. I think Evangelion is a lot like that. There's a lot of things that are not explained and has to be interpreted. I don't think this is a bad thing, but in aot a lot of the thing contradicts each other or is unrealistic (as far as I can tell), which is what I find problematic. I should probably watch Sonny Boy :D
@ulrikbredland6965 Hm yes maybe Isayama tried pulling too big of a parallel between Ymir and Mikasa without proper build-up or foreshadowing, and maybe that's why it feels so odd. Also yes Evangelion is goated, Sonny Boy definitely took a lot of inspiration from it, it's just even more abstract and doesn't have mecha battles haha. SO YES WATCH SONNY BOY, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE WATCH SONNY BOY! I made a little amv of it on my youtube channel as an intro for a video essay i'll be making on it shortly: ruclips.net/video/19Bk-v2OI9E/видео.html It's so so good. 12 20-minute episodes of pure bliss. So watch it. You won't understand any of it on your first watch but that's the beauty of it. Just submit yourself to the experience!
You don't know HOW EDGY those immature beings can get when it comes to someone existing without agreeing that Eren is the hero and rumbling shouldn't have been stopped and stuff that they'll be ready to storm your place anytime because of it. There is reality taken into account, and while some can build proper arguments to hate the ending, some are just kids trying to be edgy anarchists wanting to see humanity being overthrown for whatever thing they call freedom. That same kid who dedicatedly hates the series came into my content just to innately prove his logical fallacy.
@@ExpertContrarian And which of my statement above is considered a strawman, sir? Perhaps you should set your point clear next time before allegedly claiming someone else's to be false or fraud.
@@CrescentAnime it’s very clear unless you’re being purposefully disingenuous? You can’t defend the ending so you have to attack the credibility of others 😂 were you trying to be ironic by complaining about logical fallacies while using one? Edit: Your video saying AoT shows people should just man up and talk it out made me LoL. Bro is lost
@@ExpertContrarian Again, which one of my statements above explicitly defend the ending? My complain was only the people who act like they know what is good for a story like that is the sole path a fiction can be seen as worthy. Of course, since you're being vague for whatever reason in an argument you were supposed to be not, if you think the statement regarding them was biased or a strawman then please scroll above and read it again, am I merely claiming & generalizing things? I've also seen your other recent comments on this exact video, and I guess that just explains it. So, good day.
Amazing video, i didnt like the ending in the manga but the anime really turned it around for me. I always believed it just needed a few adjustement to be vastly better and they nailed it! And its worth noting that isayama drew and requested the changes himself making it more explicit and understandable but also just better narratively. Loved your tributes and your commentary. Was nervous this was gonna be a hate video lmao but was pleasantly surprised, keep it up !
Yes! I think so too, I don't know if I'd be as enthousiastic if I experienced the ending in the manga originally. "You became a mass murderer for our sakes" is a very icky line
@@olafsomething yeah it was for me the worst moment in aot, and getting it at the very end of the story felt so bad, however many agree that Armin was lying to comfort his friend, though its not conveyed very clearly. They made the conversation so good in the anime though and revealing the 80% part later as well as focusing on Armin's honest feelings made it all Flow better and really enhanced his character. I'd argue that while Eren took the spotlight for Special 1, Armin and Mikasa were the stars of the final episode
7:27 It definitely did. OBJECTIVELY. 11:17 Eren isn't an idiot and never was. His character development (Which was thrown in the garbage.) Already debunks that. He's not a genocidal maniac either. He was ACTIVELY trying to avoid the Rumbling. The ending sucked. It was definitely supposed to end with a full 100% Rumbling, the entire Alliance getting killed, and Eren returning Paradis to greet Historia and their daugher, the reborn Ymir, telling her that she is free because she will not be burdened with what came before her thanks to all sacrifices her father had to make to give her a free life. But instead, AOT went full Shonen and gave us a shitty ass Code Geass, rom-com, and Disney ass ending. There are plot holes, characters assassination, character regression, and plot holes all over the place. Eren, in chapter 12, has a conversation with Commander Pyxis where he shits on the 80% plan b4 he even knew of the outside world. He says verbatim: "It's too naive and rosey." Eren right there, shouldn't be stopping for anything. Ymir's "Stockholm Syndrome" is bullshit. What King Fritz did was take away her ability to speak, burn down her home, and killed her parents, all of which ruined her life. Stockholm Syndrome requires some compassion from the abuser which did not happen. Eren gave Ymir the CHOICE to decide. EREN freed Ymir. Mikasa DID NOT free Ymir. Mikasa had NOTHING to do with founder Ymir. Founder Ymir yearned for FREEDOM from being oppressed by the will of the king, and EREN broke her away from that. Mikasa didn't let Eren go at all the credits show that. She took the next three generations to Eren's grave. That's NOT moving on. Eren was not trying to end all human conflict. He was trying to break the cycle of hatred towards Eldians, that's it. Paradis fighting amongst themselves wasn't Eren's concern. The ending ruined the themes of the show. Eren sticking to his motivations doesn't make him a "edgelord". It's called conviction. Eren's view of freedom isn't corrupted. It's the literal definition. Eren primary goal was not protecting his friends. If they needed to be sacrificed to save his home, then so be it. Attack Titans users sought freedom, no matter the cost. Just like Kruger did when he said how he sacrificed the Eldians on the outside for the betterment of Paradis. Grisha's "stop Eren" changed because of the outside world ruining his past life with Dina and Zeke. Eren wasn't even happy staying with Mikasa. He was NOT okay with letting Paradis get destroyed. Eren DID NOT want to burden the future generations with the TERRIBLE cycles of children eating their parents, which is what King Fritz wanted. There was NEVER going to be an alternative option. It was kill or be killing to the core. If anyone outside side the walls were spared, Paradis was going to get destroyed because peace talks dont persevere anything. They came back and wiped out the island just like Floch said they would. Zeke being magically Talk no Jutsu'd by Armin makes no sense because Zeke is nihilistic. If he didn't get his plan, Eren's was the next best thing because then there would be no reason to fight. How did Mikasa get her memories manipulated if she's an Ackerman AND oriental?? PLOT HOLE. Killing Zeke SHOULDN'T have stopped the rumbling. Eren broke Ymir away from the will of the royal blood, and she WILLINGLY and CLEARLY sided with Eren because HE gave her what she sought. Now, since the Founder IS NOT bounded by the blood of royals, killing Zeke SHOULDN'T have stopped rumbling. Eren and Historia are the true endgame. It's deeper than just a romantic ship like EM was. Freckled, Ymir told Historia to start being selfish and live for herself and stop living for others regardless of anything. Eren, in the uprising arc, Eren felt nihilistic after he found out what his dad did and wanted to die and told Historia to eat him and said, "I never needed to happen." Historia resonated with Eren right there because her mother told her the same thing b4 she died. Historia then freed Eren and saved him and gave him his motivation back. Eren then told Founder Ymir those same words, which FREED her. Mikasa is NOWHERE to be found in this. She is NOT what Ymir was looking for at all. The connections between Eren, Historia, Freckled Ymir, and Founder Ymir are abundant. The ending is far, far, far, from "amazing." It was objectively terrible. But if you liked it, then God bless you. ruclips.net/video/KqyFK0-nq3w/видео.htmlsi=SZISuk0R0qZVtLol ruclips.net/video/SmQphuKXJSI/видео.htmlsi=rtCkbzQ-lxisvWDz ruclips.net/video/9opjG2UGfB4/видео.htmlsi=dquvvAm--5FNUOQN ruclips.net/video/YoBwmAajTLs/видео.htmlsi=wIKzai34L-7UBGSc ruclips.net/video/2906D4xzNPE/видео.htmlsi=e2Us-boYfAHd5W0X ruclips.net/video/wQm9a9fnL3A/видео.htmlsi=A9AZ3mpW25W__u5Q ruclips.net/video/YO9OlewggH4/видео.htmlsi=KDctJe2A9F2Mnmek ruclips.net/video/BhdkekxdilA/видео.htmlsi=6EaNA63viiX_CbxP ruclips.net/video/T6CaOe5t2s4/видео.htmlsi=rqEjAkqhgOvpH_Yn ruclips.net/video/_5tLqFhSW7E/видео.htmlsi=qwaStWCLNoI-Dt9X ruclips.net/video/IqUr3he-nhA/видео.htmlsi=3vIBhlcbbz26e42Y ruclips.net/video/_sqzHMHb5EA/видео.htmlsi=-lo8Wk3pvMXsBFum ruclips.net/video/cplvJKeFa6E/видео.htmlsi=iWmQ4Fl-rVAEMlbD ruclips.net/video/jaJGJObo5As/видео.htmlsi=JsY9oJe_sC24ZZHG ruclips.net/video/kGFbri8E1Ew/видео.htmlsi=J-CTFCmJGQxD0cHd ruclips.net/video/qaP5NIxv2sg/видео.htmlsi=VEx-ftS_UBE5scr5 ruclips.net/video/2Cxd1P1BmgA/видео.htmlsi=MmoLFvDI-mV2HtQt ruclips.net/video/9opjG2UGfB4/видео.htmlsi=TeL5AXg8Zi2d0B5l ruclips.net/video/GDsssA5QWhQ/видео.htmlsi=ZiCxDSdfCm16hI4j ruclips.net/video/GDsssA5QWhQ/видео.htmlsi=ZiCxDSdfCm16hI4j ruclips.net/video/wQm9a9fnL3A/видео.htmlsi=tjrshfcmyH_KVtrS ruclips.net/video/_5tLqFhSW7E/видео.htmlsi=G5EenHd2IWfBryBx
AOT was intended to be a tragedy with Eren as the tragic hero. While it’s true that there are some characters that are poorly written, there are plot holes, and moments in the ending that seem unnecessary; we were still left with a story that was chock full of incredibly deep themes, symbolism, irony, and foreshadowing. Not to mention the author’s amazing ability at world-building and creating many round and dynamic characters. The ending left viewers with feeling the need to go back and rewatch the series from a now omnipotent perspective, to catch moments of foreshadow and innuendo they may have originally missed, which was brilliantly done by the author through careful revelation of important plot points. This is why we grapple over the ending so much; because, yes it’s flawed, but it’s also brilliant.
I disagree with your point that Eren wanting to "just watch a movie with his friends" is good. Of course, one of media's purposes is to entertain and make you have fun. AOT deals with some pretty heavy stuff though. I don't think it should merely entertain but make you think of the historical atrocities that the show is referencing. In fact, that is a point that I would bring up as a defence of the anime's ending (haven't read the manga and the ending seems to be endorsing Eren's genocide which....yikes). The ending isn't good because it makes you feel good and shows clear winners in a war. The ending is good because everybody loses in war and the reasons for this war were/are complicated. Not only that but the reasons for the war and Eren's reasons are so absurd, that even his friends, who still love him after killing him, don't understand it. I am sceptical of people who can clearly take a side in AOT and/or claim that any of the main characters in this show are not guilty of vile and disgusting acts.
I thought the ending was beautiful and wrapped up more or less exactly as I thought it would. I tried looking into the reason for the hate, but unlike you I can't say I walked away feeling as if the hater channels understood AoT. In fact, among the channels you mentioned, I found their essays riddled with lack of appreciation for basic literary theoretical concepts like "unreliable narration" and the importance of measuring information in a narrative according to what is shown to happen objectively in third person as opposed to information that's presented from fallible first person accounts of characters etc. And, it shows in the sloppy way they interpret text. Fundamentally, while I think you can nit-pick the ending til the roosters cry in regards to certain logistical errors here and there, the argument that the ending is flawed in some significant way as far as the primary cast, plot and themes is concerned, are absurd imo. If anything, my takeaway from looking at a lot of hater essays on youtube, is that the AoT fandom is full of people with fairly limited media literacy who should probably spend some time doing English lit classes, read some classics and then revisit the show. But what do I know - I've only got roughly 40 years under my belt on this globe, most of it spent reading, writing, and studying the arts... On another note though, very nice video and credit where credit is due for you taking your time challenging your own opinions and engaging with both sides.
"Fairly limited media literacy" => I don't think this necessarily, I just think they might have *a lot* of media literacy that is *only* anime. In anime character arcs en developments tend to be quite linear. So I think a lot of the fans expected the "Loser Eren who isn't able to achieve anything and gets eaten by titans on his first engagement" to "Beast Eren who has the power to destroy everything and perserveres in his will to kill all his enemies"-arc. While I felt like the eventual character development of Eren was more like the characters in succession. Where Eren's true character doesn't really change, or at least not in a linear form, he always stayed the same person but his character seemed to change depending on the situation. I think the idea that Eren ever changed was more an illusion and that's why they're saying Isayama created a good character "on accident". Anyway thanks for watching my video and for the compliment!
@@olafsomething I could agree with that except I'd probably call that a distinction without a difference since I'm not convinced being media literate in "just anime" is conceptually coherent, nor am I convinced anime as a medium produces enough "sophisticated"(pretention alert) works to train a person into any kind of literacy from passive viewing alone. As a person who lives and works in Japan with art and media, I'll say this: Most anime stories are made by what in literature or movie making would be considered amateurs, and a large majority of it struggles to meet basic standards of everything from proper use of subtext, to cinematography/shot composition, tone, structure etc. That's not to say anime doesn't also have tons of works that could definitely be considered high art, whether we're speaking of Ghibli, classics like GiTS or Jin-ro, or works like Seirei no Moribito. However, even if all you consumed were works like that, there's a significant distinction between that and a conscious appreciation of what makes those anime work by looking at them and analysing them while actively studying storytelling as a tradition, cinema/animation as a craft, production/composition of musc and so forth. In my view then, not only is there a fairly high bar for what it even means being media/art literate, being "anime media literate" if all you do is just consume seasonal anime is just another way of saying "media illiterate" and that's the feeling I got from the channels you mentioned in the video. Having read or watched AoT tortuously until you remember the plot and lore by heart ≠ media literacy in my view, and the cottage industry here on youtube of uneducated consumers making 30+ minute video-essays trashing or praising some work in the most trite way possible, and only measuring various parts of plot in the most straightforward way possible, frankly has me in dispair. Meanwhile, you have relatively small channels like Resonant Arc, who'll do multi-episode podcasts on jrpgs like FF or Xenogears and so forth, covering everything from development history, to close reads of thematic imagery while leaning into literary theory. Honestly, I think people should hold higher standards. It's fine to call people out for this. AoT isn't a perfect show(no show is), but the way haters treat the conversation ain't it either.
It’s crazy people think the ending is good honestly reminds me what if aot was in live action would people hate the ending or love it cause the ending is arguable worse than got
Since I don't know the kind of lives people lead, that push them to need positivity like this, I try not to be too hard on people asking for positivity, but as far as if the ending ruins the whole story, I'd say yes. It's not like nostalgia or sentimental value isn't there. To be extremely hyperbolic it's like having a great dad your whole life, you grow up, you're having a drink together and he says "I hated every second of your childhood. All the baseball games, camping, recitals. The emotional crap. I would have rather been anywhere else. But you know, kids need that stuff so." It's probably going to be hard to just isolate the great moments knowing what you know now. Extreme and silly, yes, but a lot of what happens feels unnecessary now. Everything from conversations to huge pivotal battles. I loved the island, the soldiers, Erwin. The story of a hot headed boy with his ragtag teams of friends. When they got away from the island I drifted a little. I used to put Claymore, Berserk and Attack on Titan all together as anime that started with small enjoyable premises, then they became more. Claymore had steady progression. I know how it ends, it's a good slope. Berserk, complicated but still good slope so far, shaky but good. Attack on Titan had good slope, greater slope, gets choppy, then not so great.
6:58. You know what is funny? You make the same mistake as the ending of attack on titan. You say 1 thing, but do the opposite. You tell ending “haters” (people with brains) to move on. But here you are making a video to defend the ending. So why don’t you move on?
I wouldn't say condemning yourself to months or years of never ending feelings of rage, anger, and disappointment over a fictional story that you can just work around constitutes having a brain. Common sense would dictate that these feelings are not fun to have and logically you should not feel them if you don't have to, but you just keep doing it. Funny enough, one of the show's messages kinda reflects that. Eren was always too full of rage and disappointment that the world wasn't what he wanted, and he had a twisted belief of freedom that didn't fit with how the world was. As a result he failed to see the freedom he had in so many moments of his life.
@cesarefildani5023 I actually had a part in my script that said something along the lines of "ending haters' persistence in voicing their hate towards the ending kind of reflects Eren's inability to accept the reality of the world (beyond the walls). It isn't what he hoped it would be and he's prepared to wipe it all away if he had the power to." But I scrapped it lol
From the commentary I've seen, I think a lot of the people who hated the ending perhaps wanted either a happy ending, or an ending that wrapped up the central conflict in a satisfying or more complete way. To be honest though, I don't see how it could have. As Isayama himself suggested, it would have been dishonest to have given it a happily-ever-after ending, and at right angles to the story's core themes. An author can never please everyone, of course; but personally I don't think it could have been much more perfect. And besides, as you rightly say, being disappointed with the finalé shouldn't detract from the brilliance of the journey. Great video.
@@SerenityOceania Absolutely not. I was saying I think a happy ending is what the people who were unhappy with the ending wanted. I'm not sure how that was unclear.
Your perspective makes me sad cause it sounds like you're a bandwagon fan that never truly got it. You got like the disney consumer version mindset. Youre clearly not seeing how much they like the series IN their criticisms. You literally say it in the video
"Did it take something from you?" I feel like putting the JK simmons 'are you serious'meme here. Like, we spent so much time watching and thinking about and sharing and talking about this show. Even years waiting for releases in between if you just watched the anime. You're being foolish and hurting your channels chances with the "just move on to the next story bro" argument. It's juvenile. If youre confusing critisicm for his show and writing as hate, YOU are part of the problem. not one person is saying its not an ending that works. Theyre saying its DUMB. like the thumbnail says. Theyre saying they dont like it and why. How come you did more research after the show. This is bait youre baiting comments at this point
You know why we care so much and made it our mission to explain to people why the ending was bad? It’s because we loved this show more than you. It’s because “we cannot accept an ending like that” remember Erens words? We understood Eren, we felt connected to him, invested our time in him. Why are you making this video demeaning us? It’s because something inside of you cares. You care that you found out that you were never even close to a fan like us. An ending where Eren loses to fate? We’ll never accept that. We will keep moving forward. In death and even after death. You may call us crazy but we are just so frustrated that the show of a lifetime had been thought out so well all for Isayama to clearly and purposely change his story for whatever reason and it’s so obviously purposely bad. Who would ever write that Ymir was in love with king fritz? Nobody would ever even think to have wrote that
Hm, I guess you're right. I can relate to your frustration a little bit as in that I don't understand why people are so relentless in hating on AoT (as opposed to being frustrated at how the ending turned out). I genuinely didn't mean to demean or call anyone hating on the ending crazy though, sorry if the video felt like that. I mean, I understand the arguments and think the people hating bring up good points. But I also feel like a lot of people started hating on *all* of Attack on Titan just because they don't like the ending, and that's where I start to roll my eyes a bit. If you really did like Attack on Titan more than me as you say (which would be impressive), then you must still be able to appreciate the enjoyment you got out of it in the previous seasons, right? And if it'd really fix everything for you, just make Akatsuki no Requiem your headcannon and try to MIB yourself of the real ending or something, but I know that's easier said than done hahah. Anyway, thanks for watching! Sorry if I offended you, I appreciate your feedback though.
@@olafsomething i believe a lot of us still love everything leading up to chapter 131. although it becomes a bit muddy because the ending becomes the skeleton to the entire story, and when the skeleton feels rotten, you cant help but feel like the entire story is ruined. i think a lot of people are exaggerating on how bad it is because of how emotionally impactful it was. to see a series you love and follow for 10 years crumble before your eyes, its disappointing to say the least.
@@blubblubblup Hm yeah, fair point. If you're dissapointed by the ending, then I get that all the preceeding build up might feel kind of empty when you look back. Personally, I just feel really lucky that I'm someone that does enjoy the ending and that the story isn't ruined for me like that, and I just get really annoyed at people who are trying to convince the rest of the world to also hate the ending, you know?
Who would have ever thought to write that ? Well isayama clearly so yea and how is it hard to believe that she loved king Frits it’s clearly a girl who was broken and could not see that she was being used because trauma cause here to believe she loved him which is a real thing And actually happens in REAL LIFE so it’s not crazy and second eren did not lose to fate because eren created this reality this is what eren wanted which Is why he said no mater what he did he could not change the outcome but the outcome is what HE CREATED and that not because it was the only solution or even the best eren realized that which is why he said “it’s because I’m a idiot who got his hands on power “ which is why we got the outcome we got when they where cadets they said armin excel in intellect Mikasa in strength Jean in leadership and eren In what nothing but he had the most drive and heart for the cause. but heart is not enough so the solution we got was from one of that of a man who was violent since a KID and his only way for him to find freedom was through FIGHTING SINCE THE BEGGINING EREN ONLY HANDLED THINGS THROUGHT VIOLENCE. Killed the kidnappers to save mikasa wanted to kill all titans wanted to make berthiltf and Reiner suffer wanted to crush Marley it’s all eren knew it was his way of fighting back. so the solution we got was of a average soldier with a strong will to dO whatever it takes to reach freedom for the ones he loves Like eren said “I would take their freedom before they can take mines”
You unable to accept the ending and claiming it to be bad is an inability to accept reality. He doesn’t lose to fate, he accepts the cost it will take to take care of those he loves most. The ending is good and played out very well you just don’t like the outcome. Well guess what. No one does, it’s sad, and made everyone depressed. Doesn’t make it a bad story. You’re critique is superficial and ultimately childish on a foundation that is incompatible with the world and reality as we know it. Stop being a contrarian, it’s cringe. Just watch or don’t watch the show.
Like man, lol saintchief is still there? I once tried to understand their logic. Yea, I did. I understood their logic. But as the story goes, the culture differences and how people treated the characters 's development are just too wide as a gap. Watch filmbuff instead, for real
@@olafsomething And that's the only thing he's got on the channel. lol If I were you, I'll probably watch filmbuff's reaction instead. He got lots of insights.
Terrible clickbait from someone who didn’t understand attack on Titan. Why do bad RUclips channels feel the need to rely on Clickbait so much? It’s sad. Do you need engagement this badly? Reported for misleading thumbnail
''Whether the ending of AOT is positive or negative, whether it was good or bad, it actually doesn't even matter. Because Attack on Titan is a story that will never be forgotten.'' By the Gods, this is the most brilliant thing ever said🫡
Saw your video, then saw your specific comment
"They just wanted edgelird eren"
Damn, never heard that before (buzzlightyear meme) 🥱
Refer to Chapter 6 when Eren killed two human traffickers. Was this not edgy Eren?
Refer to Chapter 1/2 when Eren, with tears in his eyes, swore to kill all titans to avenge his mother who was EATEN ALIVE by one.
Now let me start:
Ending Defenders say we should give, we should **present**, arguments that aren't just mindlessly hating.
Firstly, its not mindless hate?
Second, even if we do, Ending Defenders don't give a damn😂
"Explain why the ending is bad with actual evidence from the story--"
Okay, did that. Evidence given. Time spent explaining what went wrong. Citing chapters with character dialogue.
"Oh... W.. well, what did Isayama do to you? Did he piss in your boots? Did he kill your parents?"
Calm down, son. Im just doing what you asked us to do, and now you're angry we're doing it?
Isn't "giving evidence" what you people were harassing us to do?
"Just move on"
Sounds like you guys just want us to move on so there wont be any hate on this "masterpiece"
😂 Can you see my problem here?
Backstory: i moved on from the ending TWO years ago, but a year and a bit ago an Ending Defender dragged me back because they claimed we weren't giving evidence.
They were smug about it too, so I responded.
Now it's too much? NOW we should move on?
We loved the story just as much as you guys 🙄
We should collab x (genuinely serious btw, I wanna make an attack on titan essay with your view in it)
@@olafsomethingI'm not interested in collaborating, brother.
Sorry, I'm actually a bit stressed out irl with work lmfao 😂
If you want perspective from an Ending Hater, I'm currently explaining the thematic message of a complete Rumbling via biblical parallels.
And then explaining the importance of Historia and her pregnancy.
Obviously with chapter citations included 😮💨
@@SerenityOceaniaShame, I think you make some well structured videos with sound arguments.
@@olafsomethingnothing personal.
I can give my thoughts out in a comment here, I just can't be there.
Just what would your video be about?
@SerenityOceania Well, the video definitely wouldn't be for the near future because I have other videos planned first. But I want to one day make one big video essay where I express my love for Attack on Titan and why I personally think it's one of the greatest pieces of fiction ever written, as well as why it's a piece of art every writer should take notes of when writing their own stories.
However, I feel it would be pretty ignorant to make a huge eulogy about it without addressing the critiques the show has. And who better to fill that part than the man himself? I mean, as I said in my video, you have such an extensive knowledge on the series so to have your take in my video would give it so much more depth. If I could just have a personal brief summary of your opinion consisting of the main bullet points on what you hated (Ymir's character, Eren's retconning, the Cringevengers Eren Mikasa vs Eren Historia, ...) or how you would've hoped/thought the story would've ended (akatsuki no requiem?) and why, then I think that video could be amazing. It doesn't have to be too long of an explanation, just key elements of your critique, and then I could redirect people to your channel if they'd want to get more nuance/longer explanations of your critiques.
Anyway, as I said, it's not for the near future so no need to rush. I'm definitely going to be making the video though and if I got a summarized take by you then I'm convinced we could make a great video. Idk if just a yt comment will do, though.
If you wanna chat, hmu on twitter or something, offer stays up (until I've made the video ig lol) and if you're not interested then just thanks for watching the video. I genuinely didn't think it'd reach anyone and I'm actually pleasantly surprised that you even stumbled upon it haha. Your videos brought me to some new insights on AoT and taught me to be more critical of the ending myself. Would love to see what you'd come up with, it's up to you.
6:38 we feel like we wasted our lives.
Ill hate on the ending for 10 years atleast
Ah yes, that's a perfect way to not waste your life for the coming years then
@@olafsomething exactly. It's to respect the series of course
5:30 The communities hating on the AOT ending do have very good points and I agree, I’m kinda glad for these communities tbh because they helped me think about anything that I might have missed. They helped me understand their own frustration and there are some nice people that I have been able to ask opinions on why the ending was bad.
I’ve come up with explanations to everything myself that “ending haters” will say are “just head cannons” even if the head cannons can make some sense but hey, we all have our own opinions and points of view, and also your video is linked in the r/titanfolk subreddit that mentioned this video in a post and that is how I found it.
If you find a lot of comments hating on your video out of nowhere it could possibly be because of that, but we all have our own opinion, and we all should respect each others.
I’ve grown up with AOT, started it when I was 11 or 12 about 9 years ago. Each time a new season came out I rewatched the seasons before it along with the new season.
I am one of those people who others will say “you don’t understand” or “the ending is objectively trash” just because I have a different opinion.
An example of something I will say that I have an understanding with other than Eren’s character(would take ages), something that everyone is calling a plot hole, would be Mikasa’s memory being manipulated.
Mikasa is supposed to be half Ackerman+Azumabito and also half eldian and so is Levi, which is why she and Levi are both able to be connected with the paths. Eren manipulated Mikasa’s memories through the paths instead of the founding titan.
The “only Ymir knows” line has thrown a lot of people off because people think Isayama meant that we aren’t supposed to be able to come up with reasons as to why things happened the way they did. I personally don’t think that though and as stupid of a line as it was I was able to make sense of AOT in my own way.
6:42 Yea this video is going to get hate because you said all of that…I feel like saying “move on” to the people that didn’t like the ending is like a sin bro, I wouldn’t like it if I hated the ending and someone told me to “move on” so I mean that line is a really harsh in my opinion to the “ending haters” because as you said, they still do have good points. But after you said that I doubt many people are going to watch your video until the end.
8:48 Yea they do talk well about many things and I have seen those videos but they never convinced me that the ending ruined AOT they just helped me find points in the story to think about. They make good arguments when it comes to why they themselves understood AOT the way they did but calling us “ending defenders” and saying we are “ill minded” is something that I take offense to, although you have likely also offended people by telling them to “move on” but oh well, AOT will forever be a masterpiece to me.
I am sorry, but what?
"What has this taken from you? " Yum, I don't know. Maybe the decade of investment, both in time but more importantly in emotions. We hate the ending, Because we care.
And yes. The ending ruins the series. Because you can't focus on a series that character assassinated the bloody protagonist,, that embodied the philosophy of the series (at least before the ending in which that philosophy also burned) just because some cool side character exists
Yeah, okay, I get that. But you're "free", right. Doesn't that mean you're also free to just move on if the show annoys you so deeply? Don't get me wrong, I feel for you, I think I'd feel the same as you if I hated the ending that badly that I felt like it ruined the entire series for me. But also, it was our free choice to invest our time and passion into this show, Isayama didn't force us to read his manga, on the contrary, he stated his insecurity about his writing on multiple occasions. But I totally understand the feeling of your frustration of seeing a story you love crumble before your eyes. The same happened to me at a certain point with Doctor Who, when a new head writer completely ruined the Doctor's character, turning him from a simple mad man with a magic box to a timeless omnipotent god or some shit. I saw a figure that I had made my role model since I was 9 years old just suddenly disappear. So when that happened, I dropped the show and moved on to other stuff, but I still love the seasons I grew up with, and I still rewatch a bunch of clips and episodes. And at the same time... there's so much other great stuff out there besides AoT (or Doctor Who for that matter), instead of caging yourself in your hatred for this one show, why not go out and explore new shit? I promise you it's worth it. Continuing on an obsession based on hate really won't make you happy in the long run I think, unless it actually fills you with gratification, in which case, by all means go ahead, I might be an idiot for simplifying it like that.
I feel like this comment might sound a bit preachy, I don't mean to come across like that, but I genuinely hope you find new shows you're passionate about through and through and don't feel like they dissapoint you in the end.
Also, thank you for watching, I actually really appreciate it, even if you disagree with me.
@@olafsomething Don't get me started on Doctor Who. If you jumped wagon when Moffat took over completely at least you are lucky you didn't experience the Mary Sue dumpster fire phase of the Doctor.
One thing you might not get, is that you are taking examples of people complaining about a series in a context that people discuss the series. It's not like they are ranting for three hours straight during dinner. Nor that they don't watch other shows. At least I hope so. And now it is even more topical because you anime watchers finally caught up and even saw a better version that still wasn't enough to fix the issues.
Nerds of any kind are passionate. I can find people arguing about football games and titles of decades past. Nothing new here.
Final point, we ain't talking Naruto here. You can enjoy Pain for example and even madara despite the ending, because of the cool factor. The story doesn't demand much from you. It's a battle shonen that you turn your head of and allow the power fantasy to flow through. AoT isn't like that. I was religiously waiting for it to end to add it to my book library. The story was complex, the characters were nuanced and the build up of Eren along the tracks of freedom is nothing short of a masterpiece. Most people Eren changed after the basement. That's not true. Eren was shifting slowly based on previous experiences and comrade deaths (super eye patch wolf has an excellent essay on that I believe. Might be some other guy tho). Point is AoT isn't a manga simply. It's a great work of literature. Sure I have moved on. Before the anime I hadn't really thought about it. But it will never go away, same way the Moffat era won't go away, same way the Last Jedi won't go away. It's it's healthy to be frustrated about all those things once in a while, because they actually robbed parts of you.
@@olafsomething "okay, for the sake of argument, if the water rises 10 ft, don't you think the people would just sell their house and move"
we were so close to greatness, the author didn't have to do anything, just let the rumbling finish and show how the characters deal with their traumas, live their lives and maybe end with the 8 pages
but noooo, he watched one cour of avengers and thought "hey this is cool, this would be an epic finale for my magnum opus" and fcked it all up
@@countpythagorasYou do not care about the series
@@countpythagoras On the topic of Naruto, I do think it's very funny how one of the themes of the series is hard work vs talent and it's revealed that Naruto is the reincarnation of ninja Jesus. That makes the Naruto vs Neji fight so funny in retrospect, since Neji is the actual underdog in that battle.
This is such a nuanced, well-thought out video not just about AOT but about going through life in general, and what truly matters at the end of the day. Great work 👍
That means so much to me, thank you!
There is no nuance here.
Finallyyyy someone speaks it out loud! Thank you for that increadible video!
I had a very similar reaction to the ending. I read the manga ending when it came out, thought the conversation felt a bit rushed but was ultimately satisfying, and loved the final page/message. Then saw the HATE. THEN did the research, to see why it was just "SOOOO BAAAAD".
But I still conclude that a good chunk of it comes from folks not entirely understanding Eren's character, which I found pretty consistent throughout the whole story. I don't care if the writing was "an accident." I love Attack on Titan.
Me too, I also think people's dissapointment came from the fact that Eren's character culmination was up in the air for a while since we never got his actual pov for the final part of the story, so when we got to really see him as "the real Eren" again (as opposed to the mastermind sigma male bad boy edgelord villain Eren), people who wanted him to be a flawless complicated joker-esque villain felt betrayed. I get their frustration a bit, but also I feel like that would be a kind of problematic character seeing how romanticised and idolized Eren was when he was in that edgelord stage of his character. I think exposing him for being a helpless teenager was a great move to expose him as a loser by Isayama.
@@olafsomething"expose him as a loser" made me giggle i feel like eren was a great character and i don't understand how people would like edgelord eren better than a character with an actual background, feelings and motivations.
I hate post time skip can we control alt delete it
@@olafsomething
Except that the "edgelord Devil mastermind" like you want to describe IS the real Eren.
He IS the 9 years old kid who killed by himself 2 adults kidnappers.
For this ending makes sense you have to literally erase Eren's INNER Thoughs on 138 chapters.
And assume that Eren have dementia or lies to himsef.
Everything on chapter 139 is contradiction from what he Said in others chapters
Sorry but his character get retconed. Even Isayama himself said he dont like Eren, he forget what he wrote and Yuki kaji made him understand Eren a bit.
You can like the ending but say that Eren before 139 was always posessive with mikasa and a coward afraid of death is insanity
People who say this just want to ride Isayama at this point
@@lain5858 The little kid murdering those "subhuman animals" is a great demonstration of how funamentally broken at his core Eren was his entire life. Completely fueled by and a slave to his own rage. Nothing about that prevents someone from confiding their deepest feelings, fears, and desires, to their best friend, when facing the end. Eren is a little broken idiot who touched the powers of a god, and the ENTIRE post-time skip plot is the result of that. Remember the little whiney crybaby who was asking Historia to kill him? Still Eren. Still Eren right to the end. Eren was never the "mastermind" type. He had one solution to all life's problems. Fight. Kill. Rar.
Great video man, you inspired me to express myself in a more positive way. Because of your video it made me want to make my own aot video. Thank you
Thank you so much for your perspective! It’s lovely to see someone being open to other people’s opinions, and sharing his own passion for the story, without taking it more seriously than the real people involved.
bro you so underrated new sub, i also completely agree with you this ending was satisfying and not terrible by any means. maybe there were smol plotholes here and there but its not like everyone could survive and live happily ever after or something
That wasn't the point, everyone DID live happily ever after. Which is trash in a show like this.
Great video, personally I loved the ending
Same
12:37 This gave me chills and made me cry😢😢❤
Great video. Glad u enjoyed the ending.
Just want to point something out. I myself am in the "I cant rewatch AoT after the ending" group. For context I watched the anime 6 times. But I think the problem here is that it depends on what grabbed u in AoT, which in my case was the story, the plot twists all that. When I was rewatching it I was always surprised by the amount of little hints of what's really going on, the "wait now that I know Reiner is the armor titan this reaction means soooo much more" moments. This goes to the not so good stuff. When I see Dina Titan I go "Oh look it was Eren... That sent her here...". When I see "hobo Eren" cutting his leg off I dont go "HOLY SHIT HE LOST IT FOR REAL" I go "Oh so... he knows what will happen but does nothing? Wait but that..." and the plot holes it opened up.
If you were into AoT for the action alone those things will not annoy u as much cuz u can go watch the legendary Levi going after Kenny scene (Actually just perfect scene peak animation) and be happy. But if u were story over action... Things CAN (different people different reactions) make it all terrible.
Again great video :) Hope you remember how u loved the ending... For 10 years at least
Thank you! Don't get me wrong, I loved it for the story too. I love writing and experiencing well thought out stories more than I'm attracted to action just like you, and I thought the ending was really good, even if it might have opened up some plotholes as you say, or at the very least makes you ask questions. Personally, though, I like stories that make you ask questions, even if it feels kind of weird with Attack on Titan. Thank you for watching!
Eren still kept moving forward just as he said so there was no problem with that.
Also Eren becoming the perpetuator of his own tragedy is a well fitting ending for his character and also would you also not mind when Eren manipulated his father to kill the Reiss Family
The way the rumbling was stopped was so stupid. Armin somehow ends up in paths and on top of that convinces Zeke that life does have value and to appreciate the little things when he’s the last person who could believe something like that. This is a guy who believed being born was the worst thing that ever happened to him and who was sitting with these kinds of thoughts for years and years in paths while the rumbling was happening. And then Armin just appears and shows him a leaf and then Zeke does a 180 on his entire life philosophy.
And the fact that Zeke dying stops the rumbling itself is also stupid when Ymir rejecting Zeke, a royal’s will, was such an important part of the plot and shows that he was no longer needed for Eren to use the founder. And then when Eren’s founder body is blown up by Armin he’s still able to turn into a colossal titan form despite having his connection to the founder severed and Zeke dead, so it looks like Eren and Ymir were still in control of the founder despite Zeke after all.
The cabin dream sequence is also never explained and shouldn’t happen because the story flat out says to the reader that there are special bloodlines like the Ackermans and Orientals who can’t have their memories altered by the founder in any way, yet the cabin vision still happens and after Eren’s death the memories Eren supposedly erased suddenly come back to Mikasa along with everyone else’s despite that not being able to happen to Mikasa by the rules set in the story.
I’m not even going to talk about Ymir loving King Fritz all along or Eren killing his mom because everyone and their mothers have ripped on that already and it’s obvious how abhorrent those retcons are.
Finally onto Eren’s character itself the way the rumbling arc butchered his character is just tragic. Throughout the entire series it was thoroughly explained that Eren does not love Mikasa back. The scarf scene at the end of season two especially was had nothing to do with his romantic feelings but was instead Eren’s promise to himself to never stop clinging on to life. Yet all of a sudden Eren has feelings for Mikasa for no reason, and the cherry on top of that is him crying over the fact that he never got to score which everyone loves to say is him being vulnerable and that Eren never changed and was the same “whiny kid” throughout the whole series which is so pathetic and there is so much wrong with that sentiment. (Ignoring the fact that Armin only ever gets mad or upset at Eren and punches him is when Armin mentions how Mikasa felt and how Eren treated her during Eren and Armin’s fistfight instead of the millions, maybe even billions of people that Eren killed in the rumbling yet the most acknowledgement we ever get out of that is Armin making a little shocked face when Eren briefly mentions that oh yeah btw 80% of humanity died lol), Eren throughout seasons 1-3 (which these ending defenders call his true self) never cried or grieved over some inane garbage like a girl’s feelings. When Eren broke down during his time as a scout it was always him either grieving over the deaths of others or him lamenting his powerlessness. Calling him some pathetic kid who never changed is a severe disservice to his character and who he is even prior to his development between seasons 3 and 4. These are the same guys who will say that because Eren was just an angry brat who never changed, his character during season 4 was all him acting, when that’s objectively false because you can literally see his internal thoughts and feelings during season 4 which are so much more developed, mature, and advanced than his season 1-3 self. What the rumbling arc does is takes all that development and maturing Eren went through and throws it all out the window for the sake of trite and bland themes like war bad, war never change, humans always fight. And this isn’t even me being some edgelord lamenting the fact that we can’t have edgy man bun Eren anymore. Hobo Eren with the long untied hair in Marley was my favorite rendition of him and the depth and amount of growth Eren showed while in Marley and confronting Reiner was all so incredible yet now ruined because instead of building on that the series later completely betrays that and ruins Eren’s character.
Eren’s goals and motivations through the rumbling are also ridiculous. The only option Eren has left is to do a full rumbling where the entire world, which has openly and officially declared itself as Paradis’ enemy is destroyed if Eren does not want: 1) his people to continue to be persecuted 2) the curse of the titans to continue to run rampant (by the way it’s amazing how the titans are heavily implied to come back in the epilogue pages) and 3) Historia to be forced to continue the cycle of Royals being eaten by their own children which is again one of the strongest and most important plot points that was again ruined. And the story even outright shows this to the audience. Eren spent months and months looking for any different solution, basically begging for there to be another way yet nobody was able to come up with any solution, and whatever solution his friends came up with after his death clearly did not work because we all know how Paradis was bombed to shreds after the main cast died. And as a side note it’s not Eren’s “victory” that his friends get to live to old age and die of natural causes before Paradis is burned to the ground because that’s ridiculous and Eren isn’t someone who just blindly cares about only his friends and gives middle fingers to anybody who’s not a main character because he cared about the humanity he knew on the Island, he cared about the people he killed in the rumbling, so that point is also invalid.
I mentioned Historia earlier, whose character is an equal tragedy. Historia was one of the most important characters in the story, and a literal second protagonist at times. She draws so many parallels to Eren and Ymir yet her character got sidelined and forgotten about during the rumbling arc. The pregnancy subplot also led to nothing despite the attention the story gave it + the farmer was a stock character who was never given the explanation needed for such an emphasized plot point, and no this is not me being some deranged shipper or anything. I do not care who Eren bangs. I care about the story being good and not having its writing and characters fall apart abruptly like how it did in the ending.
In summary, no matter how you look at it Attack on Titan’s ending is straight awful, and nearly completely ruins one of the most popular and promising anime of the past decade, a story with characters I related to a little and became invested in, as did many others. I am not here to be overly pessimistic and/or compare it to game of thrones because I’ve never seen that, I’m just taken aback (SEVERE UNDERSTATEMENT) by borderline braindead MAPPA-consuming drones who eat up whatever is given to them without any further thought and then proceed to flood any kind of forum with the most vapid and useless white noise of thoughts and opinions much to the detriment of literally anyone capable of thinking and communicating like an adult. And for the record I’m not throwing shade at anyone or any other anime, and I’m not saying this about the guy who made this video. If you’re reading this i don’t think you’re a mappa drone or whatever. If you like mappa or Jujutsu Kaisan or Chainsawman or even Attack on Titan’s ending, that’s fine, in fact mappa did great work on taking these last chapters, chock full of atrocious writing and turning them into something actually presentable. It’s just that those kinds of people are out there and to say their entire personalities and who they are as people drive me up the wall is the understatement of the year. And if anyone else hates how Eren’s character ended up I can’t recommend the Reverend Insanity novel & Code Geass enough. Fang Yuan and Lelouch are the guys Mikasa tells Eren not to worry about.
P.S. I disagreed with most of this video but the point you make about showing positivity and going over the depth and intricacies this series has was very well said.
Zeke never wavied about his plan. At least not 180. But, meh. I got your point. How can Armin convince him by using the baseball that come out of nowhere. But it's always there, different perspectives. Perspectives matter. As for the rest, I got those, too. Just not for me. I watched Code Geass as well. Never thought that is bad or good, just the perspectives I can learn from it.
Your points are good but to be honest I just feel all the contradictory points just kinda make them feel more human people contradict themselves all the time sometimes without noticing emotions run us and love can ruin or make people stronger life’s not one way
Bro wrote a whole paragraph and then complains when people who love the ending do the same,
Good video mate. I especially loved your last sentence followed by the music. That was epic.
I took inspiration from Attack on Titan and made a good ending, what can I say
I think its fair to point out all the flaws in AOT writting.
Why?
Because FUTURE writters would not make the same mistakes.
And yes, that ending destroyed everything. All the narratives did not got anywhere.
12:40 you gave me chills
this is the kinda video youd expect to get 1 million views. Why hasnt it
I used to be like the haters, but not for Attack on Titan. I was like them for Star Wars, especially after The Last Jedi. I used to be so full of hate and anger at how the story turned out and what was done to this franchise that I love, but over time I just... moved past it. Even now I see people in the comments of this video claiming that they hated the ending because they loved the story more than the people who liked it, which is EXACTLY what I did with Star Wars. It's so weird seeing this from the outside and it honestly just makes me really sad. I hope these people will one day realize that their level of hatred for the ending is unhealthy and let go, moving on to other franchises and other stories that are fun and good, just like I did.
Cheers to that
You can hate something for good reason. Of course you shouldn’t revel in it and make it guide your life, but that isn’t the same thing as having standards. I think the Disney Star Wars haters are righteous in their anger, and have good justifications that are grounded in writing principles. I think the same applies to AOT haters. It has a myriad of plot holes, character assassinations, and thematic flubs in it’s final arc. Hating something isn’t wrong, their level of hatred is born from the level of joy they had with the earlier parts of the series. You cannot have one without the other. I don’t think you would say the same if they liked the ending. “I used to love the AOT ending, but then I moved on”. Joy and hate can both be constructive, you shouldn’t be biased against hate that is grounded
@@pphaver871 Dear *god* it's like looking in a mirror...
I can't decide if its funny or sad how much you're reminding me of myself, especially with the defensive attitude and needless justifications.
A part of me *really* wants to engage with you, but I think it's better for both of us if I just don't.
Have a good one. ❤
@@bobbobbobbobb You aren’t any better than me for forgetting. Quit this condescending attitude. I don’t feel these justifications are needless. It’s fine if you like moving on, but I enjoy talking about writing with my friends, and we enjoy ruthlessly criticizing things. Catharsis and joy are born from this process for us. If you don’t share this feeling, we don’t have to engage, but I don’t think you should feel superior to me, since I don’t feel the same to you. ;)
Project harder
Expressing a wish for someone's death, being disrespectful, and harassing Isayama is absolutely unacceptable and foolish. We're all here because of him and the masterpiece he created. Attack on Titan is a complex web of plots, themes, ideas, characters, and world-building. Like any story, AoT can't be analyzed in isolation from the overall context. The beginning sets the stage to showcase the world and encourage further reading/watching. The beauty of the start lies in the potential unfolding before us. AoT promised beautiful, tragic, sad, and valuable plotlines, always delivering on those promises abundantly, making the story great. The consistency in motifs, character motivations, and Isayama's ironclad writing was broken in the ending. Many have articulated why the conclusion is disappointing, and I mostly agree. The ending ruins the entirety because the beginning and development sole purpose of existing is satisfying conclusion. I can't accept that the characters' sacrifices, their tragedy, and suffering were ultimately invalidated, and the cycle of hatred will repeat. What Attack on Titan left in me is a sense of hopelessness, whereas it always provided motivation for action. I respect your statement and its tone, but I think you are far from correct. So called ,,hate channels" and fanfic writers (long live No Requiem!) brought me more joy from the AoT than any AoT ending apologists, and ending itself.
As a further prove: what happened with GoT phenomena after 8th season? What about LOST? Decent ending is crucial.
Yeah, the ending is pretty bleak. I'm sorry you feel that way about it. But you're right, I'd just focus on Akatsuki no Requiem if you really hate it that badly, the people working on that are making a banger piece of art themselves. Thank you for watching, though, I appreciate your comment!
@@olafsomething The truth is, my feelings towards it aren't as negative as you might assume. I don't typically leave comments, and in fact, I had almost forgotten about Attack on Titan for a solid two years after the manga concluded. I had moved on. However, when the new ending emerged, I found myself inundated with comments about people like me-those who weren't fond of the original ending. We were labeled as haters, accused of not understanding the story or its overarching message, and told that disliking something was inherently wrong. Your argument about appreciating the positives in life is valid, and I acknowledge that. However, using it to dismiss any form of criticism with statements like, "If you didn't like it, just don't watch it," feels incredibly disheartening. Why engage in a conversation if we're only allowed to agree and put on a happy face? My intention with this comment isn't to sour your day, but rather to represent those who felt betrayed and disappointed by the ending. I commented your video, and I'm expressing these thoughts because you cared enough to consider the perspective of those who didn't share the same sentiments. Thank you for that.
"The ending ruins the entirety because the beginning and development sole purpose of existing is a satisfying conclusion."
Wholeheartedly disagree, the purpose is to keep you interested and deliver the themes of the story, which, as you said yourself, got deliveresd by Isayama, but supposedly not the end.
Still, sad that you didn't like the ending. But as I see it it's on you for not noticing what kind of story it evolved into. It isn't an idealistic "you need to push through and everything will be worth it" fairytale. This isn't Dragonball or Naruto.
I would even go so far to say: You were so focused on "everything will be worth it" that you missed or dismissed the hopefull message Armin had to Zeke and Eren.Which is a light in the dark world of AOT.
The story puts it in your head that conflicts will always exist and humanity will always fight each other. Erwin's speech before dying in a suicide charge hammers that point about their actions are not going to be meaningless, so the alliance saving 20% of humanity does not ruin anything or the character's journey due to eren not completing the rumbling. And that is the point of the ending.
Isayama did state that he felt like he needed more time with the ending, so that is why it might feel a little rushed.
tbh, I love the ending, yeah some parts about mikasa helping ymir was kinda not set up, but in the end, it was fitting and I loved it. yeah it doesn't go out with a massive bang like I thought it would.
still loved it
That's why I really like the anime ending, you can see he was able to take more time with it there.
9:15 invaderzz basically does what you describe here. He obviously doesn't think the show is perfect but that is irrelevant when you're watching a video trying to understand plot points in an anime.
Giving explanations like Isayama "forgot about this" or "didn't set this up" just take the fun out of deep analysis videos like his.
His commitment to finding explanations *within* the story makes his 3 long analysis videos rly interesting and fun to watch, I see you have watched one at 11:59.
But his unserious tier list videos for each arc of the show are surprisingly entertaining too, he can spout off the most obscure facts and stories about the show while watching. His friend points to a random soldiers in the background and the man will reliably tell you their names are Keiji and Hugo.
Yesss invaderzzz' video has been in my reccomendation feed ever since the manga ended and the title and thumbnail were always way to teasing for me as an anime only haha. But I waited untill I finished AoT before watching his video and when I watched it I really enjoyed it. I didn't agree with all of it, but it definitely brought me to new insights. Thank you for watching btw!
Headcanon
True lol hell I still recommend it to everyone even though I didn't like the ending its still worth watch
my Opinion exactly!
I find it quite insulting to isayama's effort he put into attack on Titian's story when they say that it's success was an accident.
I watched his interview about the warriors episode plot twist, he gave himself 10 days at the start of each month to write the chapter and plan ahead to the ending he had in plan (yes that ending), then the rest would be dedicated to drawing. he would spend hours just sitting or walking thinking about how to do the bertolt and reiner reveal before it came to him. he put in tremendous care to the series, and as an aspiring writer myself, all of that effort very easily gets overlooked.
I think Isayama is one of the most talented, respectable, timeless writers this world will know. I wholeheartedly agree with you. His planning ahead is out of this world and something any other (aspiring) writer should take note of.
Just accepted Eren is not a hero. Isayama has been trying to tell us since the start of the show.
Trying to justify him and his action will disappoint you. And therefore hating the ending.
Yuh
He should let Paradise get wiped away
How evil of him to not accept that
A villain can have solid motivations
Eren had solid motivation until he was retconned for no reason in the last scene
In this ending Eren literally died as a TRAGIC HERO.
With everyone still loving him.
WTF are you talking about?
People who hate the ending wanted Eren to suceded as the DEVIL that Paradis need to get saved
I remenber every aot fan was pro genocide
an ending defender with a brain?
NO I DON'T WANT THAT!
jokes aside this was pretty entertaining. feels refreshing to hear an actual nuanced opinion from someone who likes the ending that isn't just "you didn't understand the story."
subbed
Hahahahaha thanks!
The ending was cringe.
5:52 Ive watched aot more than 20 times now.
read the manga 50 times.
I have no life
7:19 it means if that was the vision the author had for eren the whole time, then he failed to give us that eren and made the eren we loved by accident
Yeah, fair enough, but I just don't think Isayama's success is attributable to Eren's character alone
Ik vondt de einde GEWELDIG heel jammer dat wij die nooit meer kunnen zien, 10 /10 story, Echt waar
Hoe weet bro dat ik Nederlands spreek??
@@olafsomething je sprak nederlands brabants of belgishe in de video!
oh just wask vergeten hahahaha
Attack On Titan is Art, Isayama is an artist and every art should be judged subjectively. A lot of people cannot understand that, they want to give their opinion and dragged it down into your throat, the probleme is that most people won't accept even if they have been convince. Most people that are screaming out loud that it's the best or the worst have surely didn't fully understand the show or the manga, so wheter you liked it or disliked it you must respect the work and the time given into making it, because story like that are so rare.
True
Here a comment in spanish. I can hear and understand perfectly english but i prefer write this in spanish to be able to express myself better. If you ever read this i would appreciate.
En primer lugar, muy buen video. Attack on Titan no es solo mi anime/manga favorito, si no que mi obra en general favorita, y mi apreciación con ella fue evolucionando simultaneamente con mi apreciación al personaje de Eren.
Attack on titan lo vi por primera vez cuando salio, en 2013 y yo tenía 13 años. Cuando vi la primera temporada, recuerdo que me gusto, pero tampoco me parecio una obra maestra como alguna gente aclamaba en ese tiempo, me gustaba más por ejemplo Death Note en ese tiempo. De igual manera el personaje de Eren me parecia "ok", funcionaba para la historia, pero no me gustaba tanto como otros personajes como Armin, Hange, Jean, Erwin e incluso Mikasa. Sentia a Eren como un personaje muy monotemático, cosas tipicas que decia la gente como "solo grita", "solo dice la misma cosa una y otra vez". Tenía sus momentos como cuando tapa el agujero o como cuando matan el escuadron de Levi, por lo que para mi solo cumplia con su papel como protagonista de la obra.
Pasaron 4 años y salio la segunda temporada. Yo como explique anteriormente no era fanático del anime, pero me había gustado la primera temporada por lo que le di una oportunidad a la segunda temporada. Tal vez fue porque ahora estaba un poco más mayor y podía apreciar cosas que antes no notaba, pera esa temporada me hizo fan del anime que me hizo esperar con ansias la segunda temporada. E incluso me hizo apreciar a Eren un poco más, me seguía pareciendo un personaje que solo cumplia, pero la escena cuando se comen a Hannes, Eren colapsa, Mikasa ya dada por vencida en esa situación, pero Eren de alguna forma no se queda de sentado y logra levantarse para seguir luchando me hizo apreciarlo más. Tercera temporada parte 1, más de lo mismo que la segunda, me encanto y ahora sí el personaje de Eren me gustaba, principalmente por esos momentos conversando con Historia y por como se quiebra al pensar que era mejor no haber nacido y luego el remate del episodio "Bystander" con la mamá de Eren diciendo que él ya era especial por haber nacido en este mundo. Erwin en ese tiempo era mi personaje favorito, pero Eren ya me gustaba como protagonista y como personaje.
El año 2019 tuve un periodo depresivo, tal vez porque era el año que entré a la universidad, pero eso año salio la Tercera temporada parte 2 que me dejó fascinado, sentía cada capitulo mejor que el anterior, y especialmente la última escena en la playa, donde esa frase final que deja Eren junto con la música, me hizo pensar que, a pesar que en ese momento mis 2 personajes favoritos eran Armin y Erwin, Eren tenía mucho potencial, como Attack on Titan tenía el potencial de ser una de las obras "Mainstream" mejor hechas. Obviamente el anime no era perfecto, tenía errores como falta de escenas y desarrollo como Marco (literal salio en pantalla como 7 escenas) y agujeros de guión como Berthold no ser capaz de desaparecer de forma instantanea como en la primera temporada en forma Colosal, pero aún así amaba la serie, no porque fuera perfecta, sino porque dentro de su imperfección tenía mucha genialidad.
No pude aguantar la espera de la otra temporada, por lo que pasé directamente al manga. Leí y estaba fascinado, Marley, Gabi, Reiner, la batalla de Liberio y sobretodo Eren. Fue tal cual como lo predije, Eren se había vuelto de mis personajes favoritos en ese arco. Luego todo el arco de la Guerra en Paradis, Floch, Zeke, Yelena, la batalla en Shingashina. Por fin me había puesto al día (creo que fue cuando Gabi le disparó a Eren) y podía vivir el Hype cuando salia un nuevo cap. Además entre mes a mes me daba tiempo a revisar la obra desde sus inicios en el manga, dandome cosas que no salieron en el anime y apreciando aún más el personaje de Eren de cosas que no me había percatado, dejandome la sensación que el Eren actual tenía todo el sentido del mundo con los mostrados en los primeros capitulos.
Entonces por fin se activo el Retumbar y Eren nos dice su "plan" en el capitulo 123 y en ese momento Eren se había vuelto mi personaje favorito de la obra. Attack on Titan se había vuelto mi segunda obra favorita (por detras de Evangelión), y se sentía que todo ya estaba servido para terminar de una gran forma. Si seguramente tal vez cuando llegamos a ese punto se sintio un poco apresurado, como que tal vez falto un poco más de construcción de mundo (literal en ese momento lo único que teniamos de referencia de como era el mundo fuera de Marley fue por un comentario de Udo), pero todo ya estaba servido para el último conflicto en la obra, cerrar algunas tramas y huecos y cerrar los arcos de personajes del elenco.
Y entonces salio el capitulo 126, y fue la primera vez que sentí que Attack on Titan tuvo un mal capitulo. En ese momento pense "bueno, un mal capitulo lo tiene cualquier autor, nadie es perfecto". Pero entonces los siguientes capitulos aún sentia un bajon de calidad, no tan grande como el 126, pero estaba esa sensación ahí. Pero entonces llegaron los capitulos 130 y 131 y me devolvieron las esperanzas. Además Eren en esos capitulos se coloco dentro de mi Trinidad de personajes favoritos, junto a Shinji de Evangelion y Walter de Breaking Bad. Pero entonces los siguientes capitulos siguieron con ese bajón de calidad hasta llegar a la batalla final.
En ese momento me dije "Okey Isayama, tuviste unos pequeños tropiezos al llegar aqui, pero llegó la hora de darnos una batalla final y un final que esté a la altura de tu obra". Entonces los siguientes capitulos fueron uno peor que el otro. Conveniencias, Plot Armor, Deux ex Machina hasta llegar al 138. Yo en ese punto ya estaba asumiendo que el final sería malo, pero mi único consuelo era que , por lo menos, Eren tendría un final digno para darle cierre a la historia, donde pudo acabar mejor, pero eso no arrunaría el viaje. Entonces el 139 llego... No podía creer lo que leía.
No es que solo el final sea malo, sino que arruina gran parte de la obra y un poco de la obra en general. Momentos claves de la obra luego de la llegada al mar como la conversación de Eren y Reiner en la declaración de Guerra, Eren liberando a Ymir, Eren manipulando a Grisha, todos esos momentos perdieron importancia. La segunda parte de la obra giraba en torno a Eren y sus decisiones. En la primera parte de la obra Eren era el protagonista, pero dentro del contexto era una pieza clave para avanzar la trama pero que sus decisiones no afectaban necesariamente todo el rumbo de la obra. Como bien habrás visto en todos esos videos que analizan porque el final fue malo, todos concuerdan que Eren en el último capitulo sufrio un "retcon". Todo lo que se vivio anteriomente para llegar a ese momento perdio todo el significado. Nadie me podrá convencer que la razón de todo esto fue porque una rabieta de que el mundo no era como un libro que leiste.
Además de Eren, a exepción de personajes como Gabi y Floch, y en menor medida Levi y Hange, todos sufrieron un final horrible. TODOS. Desde Armin hasta Annie. Habrá tramas secundarias como la familia de Sasha con Gabi que se pueden disfrutar, pero si tu trama principal es horrible, pues entonces la obra en general funciona mal. E incluso arruina las primeras temporadas desde EL INICIO (Eren enviando a Dina a que coma a su mamá). Cuando salieron las páginas extras, yo al inicio me reí de los que pensaban que el capitulo 139 original fue un buen final, pero a la vez fue frustante. Algunos personajes que murieron en las primeras temporadas se mantienen solidos como Erwin, pero otros como Eren Krueger se arruinan. Ver que Paradis era bombardeada era algo obvio que iba a pasar por lo desastrozo de lo anterior, pero a la vez frustante. No puedo ver el primer capitulo y disfrutarlo plenamente viendo la escena de Shadis diciendole a la mamá de Moses que al final no lograron nada, como la obra en sí.
Personalmente y como gusto personal, si Eren ganaba y se mantenía en sus ideales sería mi gusto culposo al ver por fin al "villano de la historia ganar", pero siendo justos, para que los otros personajes tuvieron un buen cierre Eren debía perder (aunque quien sabe, capaz había una forma de concluir los otros personajes de gran manera con Eren ganando), pero no haciendole un retcon y que arruine todo lo anterior de la obra.
Por todo esto me di cuenta que Attack on Titan es mi obra favorita, porque me di cuenta el dolor que me dejó fue tan grande por como en mi opinión se arruino la obra en general. Me acompaño en los malos y buenos momentos de mi vida. Debo darle credito a Isayama por eso, se mantendrá en mi corazón por lo menos 10 años, pero no de la forma que quería jaja. Como Eren en el capitulo 131 "Simplemente, no puedo aceptar un final así". Si leiste esto te agradesco tu tiempo. Saludos
I understand your arguments more than I understand some of the others. Personally, I like the somewhat unresolved nature of the ending because it exposes Eren for not having all the answers to a deep-rooted conflict from the last 2000 years, that he really *is* just an idiot kid who got his hands on a power he should've never have gotten his hands on. I think it exposes Eren as a weak person, though he has a strong resolve. I don't want to get into the politics of it, but I think it is a more fitting end for his character considering his actions. He is a tragic character stuck in his obsessions, which ultimately end up being destructive for everyone. Personally, I like it, and if it was retconned, I think the show is better off for it.
Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@olafsomething Gracias por responder. Mi problema con Eren es el "retcon". Eren igualmente puede dar ese mensaje que tú muestras si no hubiera sufrido ese "retcon".
Antes del final nadie cuestionaba que era lo que Eren quería y cual era su objetivo. El mundo odia a los eldianos, especialmente a los de la isla. El mundo quiere ver muertos a todos los eldianos. A Eren le quedan pocos años de vida. Las opciones que se le presentan no le convencen, tanto la eutanacia, porque para él nacer es importante, ya que toda persona que nace ya es especial. El plan de los 50 años no lo quiere porque no quiere repetir el ciclo de hijos comiendose a sus padres y porque no cree que el mundo en algun punto perdone y entienda a los eldianos luego de un ciclo de odio de 2000 años, y que no los vean como mounstruo que se vuelven titanes. Eren quiere que sus amigos tengas vidas tranquilas y largas. Entonces decide ir por la respuesta más radical que es exterminar al mundo exterior, ya que el siempre ha sido una persona violenta que cuando ve al enemigo que amenaza su libertad y a sus cercanos los quiere matar. También sabe que acabará matando a inocentes como Ramzi y sabe que es una basura como Reiner, pero es la única forma que ve para acabar con el ciclo de odio.
TODOS más o menos teniamos claros esos puntos. En el final, igualmente podrían presentarnos a Eren como bien dijiste como alguien debil que acabo con un poder mayor del que se merecía, que es un idiota al pensar que la solución a este conflicto sería simplemente matandolos a todos. Pero no haciendole un retcon, cambiando todas sus motivaciones diciendo que Eren hizo el retumbar no porque bajo su perspectiva era la única forma de proteger a la isla y a sus amigos, sino porque quería ver y vivir ese mundo libre que el veía en el libro de Armin. Para mi ese retcon de Eren fue muy estupido.
Pero bueno, cada uno tienes sus puntos de vista sobre la obra. Ya han pasado 3 años del final de la obra, aún me quedan 7 años. Saludos.
Im not the biggest ending fan but I love this video, did I enjoy AOT yes fcking yes and it will be in my top 1 for a really long time
First of all I've to commend you on the edits you made in this video.
Secondly as someone said here, before hating something one has to scrutinize the content to such a degree. AoT before Marley Arc had a solid story, plotlines and intrigue.
I'm not saying that post Marley arcs did not have any groundbreaking plots. However, after Chapter 131 (or in anime after Eren cries in front of Ramzi) things started to become EASY for Alliance. There was a time when scouts could not even handle 2 Shifters. And now a frigging team of Shifters from the past arise and everyone is alive.
Many people say we hate Eren for crying. Okay first of all, Eren always cried. But the reason for crying matters each time except the ending.
If Ending Haters are bad then Ending Defenders are just as bad. You mentioned Titanfolk. Did you even see AoT and SNK subreddit??? They make their own schizo post about making the ending the second coming of Christ levels
Heck they even made opinion polls about Shipping between various anime. And guess what? Eren Mikasa shipping is a greater love story than Kaguya Sama😂😂😂 (ACC to the so called Defenders)
@@johntitor6821I don't even like the ending
But Eremika is wayy better
It became easy for alliance because Eren was letting them win
aot had such a change on my life
10 years. I feel it was wasted but if i could tell myself to stop watching after 131. Id do it without hesistation. 131 was the last chapter i really enjoyed aot.
Really good video! I feel like your view is something most people lack, and it annoys me when I go on reddit. r/titanfolk is too focused on the bad, r/shingekinokyojin is too dismissive of their arguments and only focus on the good.
I have some comments though. You said that even if the ending is bad it doesn't ruin the entire story, and in a literal sense you are correct. But I take that saying more that it undermines large portions of the story. To me it feels very underwhelming that all of the story, plot twists and so on that we've gone through all happens because Ymir loved king Fritz all this time, it feels very forced and unnatural. Also Eren saying things like "I'll slaughter every last one of those animals on this earth" in his inner monologue in the middle of the rumbling arc makes very little sense with the ending we got. Eren sending Dina to kill his mom is also unnecessary and somewhat ruins the beginning for me, it's not properly explained and could easily just be taken out without losing any relevance to the story.
That being said, I'll for sure continue loving the series as a whole and rewatch it occationally, but I don't think it's completely invalid to say it ruins the story.
In addition, while focusing on the things we love is a great sentiment, I think focusing on the bad can be a good thing as well. I think the backlash helps people see the faults in the writing, which for all we know might include the next generation of writers, stopping them from making the same mistakes. Or even more relevant, there are some fan endings being made, such as aotnr. It might not be the perfect ending either, but imo the theory it's based on is better than what we got. Focusing on the faults of the ending might push more people in the direction of these fan endings, which in turn gives them more support so they can continue making them. Not saying any of these fan endings are objectively better, but for those who look forward to them it might be a driving factor.
Hm, personally I don't feel like the moments you mention lose the thematic weight after the finale because I don't think people (even Eren) are always entirely consistent in their own goals/world views. But I also saw someone else in these comments mention how the ending sort of forms "the skeleton" of the story, and if the skeleton is rotten, the entire story feels a bit empty. I'm just happy I don't feel that way in regard to AoT.
Also, yes, I definitely explained my view a bit binary in this video, but obviously, being critical of media is necessary. I'm just talking about the overload of hate when I say I get annoyed at the response on AoT's ending.
@@olafsomething what do you feel about the Ymir thing? I can understand Eren to some extent, even though I don't agree. To me it feels like Isayama tricked us just for the sake of it. Not witholding information, but showing evidence to the contrary just so he could "surprise" us in the end. But Ymir loving Fritz makes no sense to me and cheapens the whole backstory for the titans. Kind of like the skeleton analogy. It doesn't completely ruin the story as I can just ignore this "twist", but it's hard to completely ignore it.
@@ulrikbredland6965I've been having a hard time coming up with a good conclusive opinion on Ymir's character tbh. I mean, love is a major theme in attack on titan and specifically the dichotomy between love and sacrifice. But I think to just say "Well she suffered from stockholm syndrome" is also getting off easy and a bit to lame of an explanation for a twist that big and so late into the show. I mean, Ymir definitely didn't lead a normal life, right? And we saw that she wanted to marry and love another person ever since she was a child. And well, king Fritz sort of dictated her life, she was mentally subservient to him, and I think that her "love" for king Fritz was more a projection than anything else. He was the most present man in her life, so her only option to attain her goal of love was to trick herself into loving him? I'm just projecting personal experiences onto it too, so I don't really think this is a very good take hahahaha.
If I'm being honest I don't know exactly how I feel about it yet, it's definitely one of the only parts that I'm not entirely sure about whether I like it or not yet. I've only had about a month time to let the finale truly sink in so I think it's too early for me to call it plain bad or good. But personally I think that in and of itself is great, that my opinion might change on it over time. I mean that's kind of another reason why I do like the ending in its entirity, because I feel like I can interpret it differently as time goes on and change my opinion on it. Right now ai love it, but in a year I might hate it, and in another year I might love it again, depending on whatever I go through in life myself. Those are my favorite types of shows. It's why sonny boy is another one of those three shows that I'd rate a 10/10, there's so much open to interpretation, and the question of whether it's pretentious crap or whether it's amazing art is all up to what you yourself think it is. I just love that actually haha.
@@olafsomething good take, although I'm not convinced myself :) I think the Ymir twist is close to being ok, but the notion that she loved him is just weird. I don't think it's realistic in any way that she convinces herself that the king that did nothing but abuse her is the one she loves. I've seen some rewrites where they say "she loved her children" instead, and that this love extends to the rest of the eldians down the line. Wouldn't explain why Mikasa was the one to end the titan thing, but in itself it would be much more believable.
On the second part, I share your sentiment. I think Evangelion is a lot like that. There's a lot of things that are not explained and has to be interpreted. I don't think this is a bad thing, but in aot a lot of the thing contradicts each other or is unrealistic (as far as I can tell), which is what I find problematic. I should probably watch Sonny Boy :D
@ulrikbredland6965 Hm yes maybe Isayama tried pulling too big of a parallel between Ymir and Mikasa without proper build-up or foreshadowing, and maybe that's why it feels so odd.
Also yes Evangelion is goated, Sonny Boy definitely took a lot of inspiration from it, it's just even more abstract and doesn't have mecha battles haha.
SO YES WATCH SONNY BOY, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE WATCH SONNY BOY!
I made a little amv of it on my youtube channel as an intro for a video essay i'll be making on it shortly:
ruclips.net/video/19Bk-v2OI9E/видео.html
It's so so good. 12 20-minute episodes of pure bliss. So watch it. You won't understand any of it on your first watch but that's the beauty of it. Just submit yourself to the experience!
what a non-statement of a conclusion
Fits them perfectly, ironically
You don't know HOW EDGY those immature beings can get when it comes to someone existing without agreeing that Eren is the hero and rumbling shouldn't have been stopped and stuff that they'll be ready to storm your place anytime because of it.
There is reality taken into account, and while some can build proper arguments to hate the ending, some are just kids trying to be edgy anarchists wanting to see humanity being overthrown for whatever thing they call freedom. That same kid who dedicatedly hates the series came into my content just to innately prove his logical fallacy.
No, that’s what you just want them to be because you have nothing besides a strawman
@@ExpertContrarian And which of my statement above is considered a strawman, sir? Perhaps you should set your point clear next time before allegedly claiming someone else's to be false or fraud.
@@CrescentAnime it’s very clear unless you’re being purposefully disingenuous? You can’t defend the ending so you have to attack the credibility of others 😂 were you trying to be ironic by complaining about logical fallacies while using one?
Edit: Your video saying AoT shows people should just man up and talk it out made me LoL. Bro is lost
@@ExpertContrarian Again, which one of my statements above explicitly defend the ending? My complain was only the people who act like they know what is good for a story like that is the sole path a fiction can be seen as worthy. Of course, since you're being vague for whatever reason in an argument you were supposed to be not, if you think the statement regarding them was biased or a strawman then please scroll above and read it again, am I merely claiming & generalizing things?
I've also seen your other recent comments on this exact video, and I guess that just explains it. So, good day.
@@CrescentAnime There’s absolutely nothing vague about what I said. Again, another strawman. Of course you’re afraid to “man up and talk it out” 😂
Bro i literally got attacked on twitter by these haters bcs im saying "I think aot ending isn't that bad" like wth...
People will never be happy and that’s the whole point of the ending, so I’m glad people are mad
Never heard this argument for an ending that people like
Amazing video, i didnt like the ending in the manga but the anime really turned it around for me. I always believed it just needed a few adjustement to be vastly better and they nailed it! And its worth noting that isayama drew and requested the changes himself making it more explicit and understandable but also just better narratively. Loved your tributes and your commentary. Was nervous this was gonna be a hate video lmao but was pleasantly surprised, keep it up !
Yes! I think so too, I don't know if I'd be as enthousiastic if I experienced the ending in the manga originally. "You became a mass murderer for our sakes" is a very icky line
@@olafsomething yeah it was for me the worst moment in aot, and getting it at the very end of the story felt so bad, however many agree that Armin was lying to comfort his friend, though its not conveyed very clearly. They made the conversation so good in the anime though and revealing the 80% part later as well as focusing on Armin's honest feelings made it all Flow better and really enhanced his character. I'd argue that while Eren took the spotlight for Special 1, Armin and Mikasa were the stars of the final episode
2:25
"Nee Nee!" 😂
🇧🇪🇳🇱😁
Siiiiickkk🔥
All im going to say is thank GOD! Yams writes the story and not the "fans"
7:27 It definitely did. OBJECTIVELY.
11:17 Eren isn't an idiot and never was. His character development (Which was thrown in the garbage.) Already debunks that. He's not a genocidal maniac either. He was ACTIVELY trying to avoid the Rumbling.
The ending sucked.
It was definitely supposed to end with a full 100% Rumbling, the entire Alliance getting killed, and Eren returning Paradis to greet Historia and their daugher, the reborn Ymir, telling her that she is free because she will not be burdened with what came before her thanks to all sacrifices her father had to make to give her a free life.
But instead, AOT went full Shonen and gave us a shitty ass Code Geass, rom-com, and Disney ass ending.
There are plot holes, characters assassination, character regression, and plot holes all over the place.
Eren, in chapter 12, has a conversation with Commander Pyxis where he shits on the 80% plan b4 he even knew of the outside world. He says verbatim: "It's too naive and rosey." Eren right there, shouldn't be stopping for anything.
Ymir's "Stockholm Syndrome" is bullshit. What King Fritz did was take away her ability to speak, burn down her home, and killed her parents, all of which ruined her life. Stockholm Syndrome requires some compassion from the abuser which did not happen.
Eren gave Ymir the CHOICE to decide. EREN freed Ymir. Mikasa DID NOT free Ymir. Mikasa had NOTHING to do with founder Ymir. Founder Ymir yearned for FREEDOM from being oppressed by the will of the king, and EREN broke her away from that. Mikasa didn't let Eren go at all the credits show that. She took the next three generations to Eren's grave. That's NOT moving on.
Eren was not trying to end all human conflict. He was trying to break the cycle of hatred towards Eldians, that's it. Paradis fighting amongst themselves wasn't Eren's concern.
The ending ruined the themes of the show. Eren sticking to his motivations doesn't make him a "edgelord". It's called conviction.
Eren's view of freedom isn't corrupted. It's the literal definition.
Eren primary goal was not protecting his friends. If they needed to be sacrificed to save his home, then so be it. Attack Titans users sought freedom, no matter the cost. Just like Kruger did when he said how he sacrificed the Eldians on the outside for the betterment of Paradis.
Grisha's "stop Eren" changed because of the outside world ruining his past life with Dina and Zeke.
Eren wasn't even happy staying with Mikasa. He was NOT okay with letting Paradis get destroyed.
Eren DID NOT want to burden the future generations with the TERRIBLE cycles of children eating their parents, which is what King Fritz wanted.
There was NEVER going to be an alternative option. It was kill or be killing to the core. If anyone outside side the walls were spared, Paradis was going to get destroyed because peace talks dont persevere anything. They came back and wiped out the island just like Floch said they would.
Zeke being magically Talk no Jutsu'd by Armin makes no sense because Zeke is nihilistic. If he didn't get his plan, Eren's was the next best thing because then there would be no reason to fight.
How did Mikasa get her memories manipulated if she's an Ackerman AND oriental?? PLOT HOLE.
Killing Zeke SHOULDN'T have stopped the rumbling. Eren broke Ymir away from the will of the royal blood, and she WILLINGLY and CLEARLY sided with Eren because HE gave her what she sought. Now, since the Founder IS NOT bounded by the blood of royals, killing Zeke SHOULDN'T have stopped rumbling.
Eren and Historia are the true endgame. It's deeper than just a romantic ship like EM was.
Freckled, Ymir told Historia to start being selfish and live for herself and stop living for others regardless of anything. Eren, in the uprising arc, Eren felt nihilistic after he found out what his dad did and wanted to die and told Historia to eat him and said, "I never needed to happen." Historia resonated with Eren right there because her mother told her the same thing b4 she died. Historia then freed Eren and saved him and gave him his motivation back. Eren then told Founder Ymir those same words, which FREED her. Mikasa is NOWHERE to be found in this. She is NOT what Ymir was looking for at all. The connections between Eren, Historia, Freckled Ymir, and Founder Ymir are abundant.
The ending is far, far, far, from "amazing." It was objectively terrible.
But if you liked it, then God bless you.
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AOT was intended to be a tragedy with Eren as the tragic hero. While it’s true that there are some characters that are poorly written, there are plot holes, and moments in the ending that seem unnecessary; we were still left with a story that was chock full of incredibly deep themes, symbolism, irony, and foreshadowing. Not to mention the author’s amazing ability at world-building and creating many round and dynamic characters. The ending left viewers with feeling the need to go back and rewatch the series from a now omnipotent perspective, to catch moments of foreshadow and innuendo they may have originally missed, which was brilliantly done by the author through careful revelation of important plot points. This is why we grapple over the ending so much; because, yes it’s flawed, but it’s also brilliant.
No, just flawed. Zero brilliance
I disagree with your point that Eren wanting to "just watch a movie with his friends" is good. Of course, one of media's purposes is to entertain and make you have fun. AOT deals with some pretty heavy stuff though. I don't think it should merely entertain but make you think of the historical atrocities that the show is referencing. In fact, that is a point that I would bring up as a defence of the anime's ending (haven't read the manga and the ending seems to be endorsing Eren's genocide which....yikes). The ending isn't good because it makes you feel good and shows clear winners in a war. The ending is good because everybody loses in war and the reasons for this war were/are complicated. Not only that but the reasons for the war and Eren's reasons are so absurd, that even his friends, who still love him after killing him, don't understand it. I am sceptical of people who can clearly take a side in AOT and/or claim that any of the main characters in this show are not guilty of vile and disgusting acts.
The haters are the reason Eldia was nuked. They nuked it.
I thought the ending was beautiful and wrapped up more or less exactly as I thought it would.
I tried looking into the reason for the hate, but unlike you I can't say I walked away feeling as if the hater channels understood AoT. In fact, among the channels you mentioned, I found their essays riddled with lack of appreciation for basic literary theoretical concepts like "unreliable narration" and the importance of measuring information in a narrative according to what is shown to happen objectively in third person as opposed to information that's presented from fallible first person accounts of characters etc.
And, it shows in the sloppy way they interpret text.
Fundamentally, while I think you can nit-pick the ending til the roosters cry in regards to certain logistical errors here and there, the argument that the ending is flawed in some significant way as far as the primary cast, plot and themes is concerned, are absurd imo.
If anything, my takeaway from looking at a lot of hater essays on youtube, is that the AoT fandom is full of people with fairly limited media literacy who should probably spend some time doing English lit classes, read some classics and then revisit the show.
But what do I know - I've only got roughly 40 years under my belt on this globe, most of it spent reading, writing, and studying the arts...
On another note though, very nice video and credit where credit is due for you taking your time challenging your own opinions and engaging with both sides.
"Fairly limited media literacy"
=> I don't think this necessarily, I just think they might have *a lot* of media literacy that is *only* anime. In anime character arcs en developments tend to be quite linear. So I think a lot of the fans expected the "Loser Eren who isn't able to achieve anything and gets eaten by titans on his first engagement" to "Beast Eren who has the power to destroy everything and perserveres in his will to kill all his enemies"-arc. While I felt like the eventual character development of Eren was more like the characters in succession. Where Eren's true character doesn't really change, or at least not in a linear form, he always stayed the same person but his character seemed to change depending on the situation. I think the idea that Eren ever changed was more an illusion and that's why they're saying Isayama created a good character "on accident".
Anyway thanks for watching my video and for the compliment!
@@olafsomething
I could agree with that except I'd probably call that a distinction without a difference since I'm not convinced being media literate in "just anime" is conceptually coherent, nor am I convinced anime as a medium produces enough "sophisticated"(pretention alert) works to train a person into any kind of literacy from passive viewing alone.
As a person who lives and works in Japan with art and media, I'll say this:
Most anime stories are made by what in literature or movie making would be considered amateurs, and a large majority of it struggles to meet basic standards of everything from proper use of subtext, to cinematography/shot composition, tone, structure etc.
That's not to say anime doesn't also have tons of works that could definitely be considered high art, whether we're speaking of Ghibli, classics like GiTS or Jin-ro, or works like Seirei no Moribito. However, even if all you consumed were works like that, there's a significant distinction between that and a conscious appreciation of what makes those anime work by looking at them and analysing them while actively studying storytelling as a tradition, cinema/animation as a craft, production/composition of musc and so forth.
In my view then, not only is there a fairly high bar for what it even means being media/art literate, being "anime media literate" if all you do is just consume seasonal anime is just another way of saying "media illiterate" and that's the feeling I got from the channels you mentioned in the video.
Having read or watched AoT tortuously until you remember the plot and lore by heart ≠ media literacy in my view, and the cottage industry here on youtube of uneducated consumers making 30+ minute video-essays trashing or praising some work in the most trite way possible, and only measuring various parts of plot in the most straightforward way possible, frankly has me in dispair.
Meanwhile, you have relatively small channels like Resonant Arc, who'll do multi-episode podcasts on jrpgs like FF or Xenogears and so forth, covering everything from development history, to close reads of thematic imagery while leaning into literary theory.
Honestly, I think people should hold higher standards. It's fine to call people out for this. AoT isn't a perfect show(no show is), but the way haters treat the conversation ain't it either.
@@hianMy thoughts exactly! It's cool to have such a nuanced take from someone with clear experience in the business, thank you!
Another Dutch person, who claims to be the number 1 fan of Aot, I know who will get a new Sub.
The end ruined the series.
Then end was good, it just need a better edit at the end
@@mem5860 The behavior and actions of almost all characters and Misakas role at the end made no sense at all...
@@bertrecht913 why make no sense?
@@mem5860sorry but it was awful. Eren should’ve won💀
It’s crazy people think the ending is good honestly reminds me what if aot was in live action would people hate the ending or love it cause the ending is arguable worse than got
Since I don't know the kind of lives people lead, that push them to need positivity like this, I try not to be too hard on people asking for positivity, but as far as if the ending ruins the whole story, I'd say yes. It's not like nostalgia or sentimental value isn't there. To be extremely hyperbolic it's like having a great dad your whole life, you grow up, you're having a drink together and he says "I hated every second of your childhood. All the baseball games, camping, recitals. The emotional crap. I would have rather been anywhere else. But you know, kids need that stuff so." It's probably going to be hard to just isolate the great moments knowing what you know now. Extreme and silly, yes, but a lot of what happens feels unnecessary now. Everything from conversations to huge pivotal battles.
I loved the island, the soldiers, Erwin. The story of a hot headed boy with his ragtag teams of friends. When they got away from the island I drifted a little. I used to put Claymore, Berserk and Attack on Titan all together as anime that started with small enjoyable premises, then they became more. Claymore had steady progression. I know how it ends, it's a good slope. Berserk, complicated but still good slope so far, shaky but good. Attack on Titan had good slope, greater slope, gets choppy, then not so great.
6:58. You know what is funny? You make the same mistake as the ending of attack on titan. You say 1 thing, but do the opposite. You tell ending “haters” (people with brains) to move on. But here you are making a video to defend the ending. So why don’t you move on?
Why would I move on from something I love? Also, my next video is on Doctor Who so stay tuned! 😊
I wouldn't say condemning yourself to months or years of never ending feelings of rage, anger, and disappointment over a fictional story that you can just work around constitutes having a brain. Common sense would dictate that these feelings are not fun to have and logically you should not feel them if you don't have to, but you just keep doing it.
Funny enough, one of the show's messages kinda reflects that. Eren was always too full of rage and disappointment that the world wasn't what he wanted, and he had a twisted belief of freedom that didn't fit with how the world was. As a result he failed to see the freedom he had in so many moments of his life.
@@olafsomethingyou answered for us.
Ending haters love AoT, so we can't move on 😂
@cesarefildani5023 I actually had a part in my script that said something along the lines of "ending haters' persistence in voicing their hate towards the ending kind of reflects Eren's inability to accept the reality of the world (beyond the walls). It isn't what he hoped it would be and he's prepared to wipe it all away if he had the power to." But I scrapped it lol
@@olafsomething Cool, it's surprising and funny how much humans can think alike.
From the commentary I've seen, I think a lot of the people who hated the ending perhaps wanted either a happy ending, or an ending that wrapped up the central conflict in a satisfying or more complete way. To be honest though, I don't see how it could have. As Isayama himself suggested, it would have been dishonest to have given it a happily-ever-after ending, and at right angles to the story's core themes. An author can never please everyone, of course; but personally I don't think it could have been much more perfect. And besides, as you rightly say, being disappointed with the finalé shouldn't detract from the brilliance of the journey.
Great video.
Do you believe an ending which involves 100% genocide and all Eren's friends dying, a "happy ending"?
@@SerenityOceania Absolutely not. I was saying I think a happy ending is what the people who were unhappy with the ending wanted. I'm not sure how that was unclear.
@@titan_theoryNope.
Your perspective makes me sad cause it sounds like you're a bandwagon fan that never truly got it. You got like the disney consumer version mindset. Youre clearly not seeing how much they like the series IN their criticisms. You literally say it in the video
"Did it take something from you?"
I feel like putting the JK simmons 'are you serious'meme here.
Like, we spent so much time watching and thinking about and sharing and talking about this show. Even years waiting for releases in between if you just watched the anime. You're being foolish and hurting your channels chances with the "just move on to the next story bro" argument. It's juvenile. If youre confusing critisicm for his show and writing as hate, YOU are part of the problem. not one person is saying its not an ending that works. Theyre saying its DUMB. like the thumbnail says. Theyre saying they dont like it and why. How come you did more research after the show. This is bait youre baiting comments at this point
You know why we care so much and made it our mission to explain to people why the ending was bad? It’s because we loved this show more than you. It’s because “we cannot accept an ending like that” remember Erens words? We understood Eren, we felt connected to him, invested our time in him. Why are you making this video demeaning us? It’s because something inside of you cares. You care that you found out that you were never even close to a fan like us. An ending where Eren loses to fate? We’ll never accept that. We will keep moving forward. In death and even after death. You may call us crazy but we are just so frustrated that the show of a lifetime had been thought out so well all for Isayama to clearly and purposely change his story for whatever reason and it’s so obviously purposely bad. Who would ever write that Ymir was in love with king fritz? Nobody would ever even think to have wrote that
Hm, I guess you're right. I can relate to your frustration a little bit as in that I don't understand why people are so relentless in hating on AoT (as opposed to being frustrated at how the ending turned out). I genuinely didn't mean to demean or call anyone hating on the ending crazy though, sorry if the video felt like that. I mean, I understand the arguments and think the people hating bring up good points. But I also feel like a lot of people started hating on *all* of Attack on Titan just because they don't like the ending, and that's where I start to roll my eyes a bit. If you really did like Attack on Titan more than me as you say (which would be impressive), then you must still be able to appreciate the enjoyment you got out of it in the previous seasons, right? And if it'd really fix everything for you, just make Akatsuki no Requiem your headcannon and try to MIB yourself of the real ending or something, but I know that's easier said than done hahah.
Anyway, thanks for watching! Sorry if I offended you, I appreciate your feedback though.
@@olafsomething i believe a lot of us still love everything leading up to chapter 131.
although it becomes a bit muddy because the ending becomes the skeleton to the entire story, and when the skeleton feels rotten, you cant help but feel like the entire story is ruined. i think a lot of people are exaggerating on how bad it is because of how emotionally impactful it was. to see a series you love and follow for 10 years crumble before your eyes, its disappointing to say the least.
@@blubblubblup Hm yeah, fair point. If you're dissapointed by the ending, then I get that all the preceeding build up might feel kind of empty when you look back. Personally, I just feel really lucky that I'm someone that does enjoy the ending and that the story isn't ruined for me like that, and I just get really annoyed at people who are trying to convince the rest of the world to also hate the ending, you know?
Who would have ever thought to write that ? Well isayama clearly so yea and how is it hard to believe that she loved king Frits it’s clearly a girl who was broken and could not see that she was being used because trauma cause here to believe she loved him which is a real thing And actually happens in REAL LIFE so it’s not crazy and second eren did not lose to fate because eren created this reality this is what eren wanted which Is why he said no mater what he did he could not change the outcome but the outcome is what HE CREATED and that not because it was the only solution or even the best eren realized that which is why he said “it’s because I’m a idiot who got his hands on power “ which is why we got the outcome we got when they where cadets they said armin excel in intellect Mikasa in strength Jean in leadership and eren In what nothing but he had the most drive and heart for the cause.
but heart is not enough
so the solution we got was from one of that of a man who was violent since a KID and his only way for him to find freedom was through FIGHTING SINCE THE BEGGINING EREN ONLY HANDLED THINGS THROUGHT VIOLENCE. Killed the kidnappers to save mikasa wanted to kill all titans wanted to make berthiltf and Reiner suffer wanted to crush Marley it’s all eren knew it was his way of fighting back.
so the solution we got was of a average soldier with a strong will to dO whatever it takes to reach freedom for the ones he loves
Like eren said “I would take their freedom before they can take mines”
You unable to accept the ending and claiming it to be bad is an inability to accept reality. He doesn’t lose to fate, he accepts the cost it will take to take care of those he loves most. The ending is good and played out very well you just don’t like the outcome. Well guess what. No one does, it’s sad, and made everyone depressed. Doesn’t make it a bad story. You’re critique is superficial and ultimately childish on a foundation that is incompatible with the world and reality as we know it. Stop being a contrarian, it’s cringe. Just watch or don’t watch the show.
Like man, lol saintchief is still there? I once tried to understand their logic. Yea, I did. I understood their logic. But as the story goes, the culture differences and how people treated the characters 's development are just too wide as a gap. Watch filmbuff instead, for real
I feel like he's just too hung up on hating on attack on titan that he's locked into a tunnelvision
@@olafsomething And that's the only thing he's got on the channel. lol If I were you, I'll probably watch
filmbuff's reaction instead. He got lots of insights.
Terrible clickbait from someone who didn’t understand attack on Titan. Why do bad RUclips channels feel the need to rely on Clickbait so much? It’s sad. Do you need engagement this badly? Reported for misleading thumbnail
''Whether the ending of AOT is positive or negative, whether it was good or bad, it actually doesn't even matter. Because Attack on Titan is a story that will never be forgotten.''
By the Gods, this is the most brilliant thing ever said🫡
That might be one of the least intelligent things I’ve ever heard 😂