Pentium II 450 vs Pentium III 450 - Which one is better?
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2017
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This video brings back lots of memories. I got Pentium III 450 mhz back in the day, paired with ASUS P3BF mainboard and Voodoo 3 3000 16mb for graphics. I managed to overclock the Pentium III to 540mhz, and it was amazing! Great value indeed. But then came the Athlons.. and I broke the 1GHz barrier with an AMD Athlon.
hey, same here! used that very same PIII rig for 3 years before moving onto Athlon XP 1700.
haha yeah Athlon was a game changer. Intel broke win ME with coppermine core, so we were limited to overclocked katmai 600 running at 650 until tualatin came out, but the first athlon, 700 ran circles around those oc p3 systems so I ended up replacing all LAN gaming rigs with athlons pretty quickly.
(Had to run ME because Halo Custom Edition needs the new mem management, and couldnt run NT because they also had to be able to run mechwarrior 3/pirates moon.).
I was a poor child using my K6-III 450 and all friends start to switch to PII or PIII 450, but then the mighty K7 came, and i got a K7 500 and showed my taillights to the others, followed by 700Mhz version. K7 was great back then! Also stability was excellent! Even if i loved my K6, K7 was another world! I still have my K7 1Ghz Slot 1 with a Asus K7V, working and running with Voodoo 5 5500 to play around.
There's no surprise here. It's (basically) the same CPU, with added SSE instruction support, and an improved L1 cache controller.
and a hardware backdoor on the Pentium 3.
@@mrfunnyman6807 that's progress for you kid👍
I love PentiumII (the Deschutes one with 100mhz bus).. still use it in these days to watch DVDs, audio/img editing and playing all awesome games released from 1990 to 2002 (the golden age of videogames!)
what does sse do for the cpu?
@@raven4k998 Hi PentiumII had not SSE but MMX.. anyway MMX proved to be almost useless, SSE instructions (in the PentiumIII) are better and help cpu with audio\graphic computations
@@raven4k998 SSE instructions (MMX as well) can render some parts of code (specifically written) more easy and fast to read by the cpu optimizing some math computations
@@rokest5971 yeah but what does sse do specifically does it make your porn load faster?🤣
@@raven4k998 ahaha yes it could, visually you won't see any difference though, it's more a matter of coding\developing things. SSE was one of those Intel claims to promote their new processors such MMX HYPERTHREAD, NETBURST and I guess were useful to speed up everything (web surfing, movies watching, apps etc..) :) ..Have you other questions ?
Sweet! Thanks for doing this.
I've been curious as to how they would compare for years and years.
Finally a Pentium 2 vs Pentium 3 benchmark, great video ! The Pentium 2 450 and Pentium 3 450 perform practically identical, I always thoght the Pentium 3 had to be much faster.
well it's better then the pentium 3 vs pentium 4 which the pentium 3 was faster then the pentium 4 at that point🤣🤣
@@raven4k998 true, tualatin mopped the floor with the first willamette pentium 4.
I love those 1st world problems ;-). Didn‘t know what to choose for the new bedroom retro machine and - as always - you helped us out. Thanks!
I know this is an ancient video of yours. I wanted to comment here to let you know that I keep coming back to your old stuff, over and over again, whenever I need to find out things about old PC hardware. Your videos are the best resources anywhere on the topic. Thank you.
Thanks man, that made my day :D
I love the depth and love put into the search to answer a question that nobody asked .
Phil, great video thanks!
super interesting. I love comparing CPUs like this. I just bought all 4 versions of the 600MHz P3 to compare against each other.
which cpu would you choose and why🤔
the pentium 3 450 was my first mmx processor, upgraded from a pentium 120 :))).
huge difference, although in the first month I was stuck with only 32mb of ram (unlike the 48mb simm of the pentium).
I got an Abit BH6 motherboard as well, rock solid and still running! It runs everything from a Celeron 333 up to P3 coppermines even at 133Mhz bus (out of spec, but still stable).
Hi Phil, consider running 3DMark 99 on those setups, it has both PII and PIII optimizations built in so in this case results may vary.
Thing is I've decided on these benchmarks a while ago so I can compare everything. I cannot add another test at this stage I'm afraid.
Nice video Phil,again! Probably for this "Mhz range" , i woulg go for P2 350 250nm core with 4.4ns cache L2 memory.It can easily run in 233 mhz with 66fsb as well as 466 mhz with 133 fsb.
It's really weird that the P3 is slightly better, except in 640x480, and also that the power consumption is identical. A shame too that Steam no longer works without newer versions of SSE. Thanks for doing another cool video! Your thoroughness is one of the reasons I really like this channel.
Edit: I do fully understand the advantages of new compilers supporting new CPU instructions, and that it's not realistic to expect older hardware to be supported forever. It's just cool to think about running modern software on a Pentium III.
Nathan Hardy you should be able to download a special build of steam for that purpose. it's quite sad really.
Perhaps they require SSE2 and utilize the integer features. That's what Firefox and Chrome do. I think they use it for mass processing of text.
I'm sure that eventually, most big software will require SSE2 like Outlook, Word, Excel, etc.
I was writing a program for text processing and used MMX to process 8 chars at a time (finding a string in a huge array). I wanted to use SSE2 as well but my VC++ 6 did not support it. I had to go to VC++ 2015 but then I found out I have to recode it since VC++ 2008 and above don't support inline assembly. Fuck Microsoft.
Modern compilers use SSE2 instead of x87 for non-SIMD floating-point, and we've long been in the era where compilers will make good use of available instruction set extensions by default. SSE and SSE2 have been supported by processors for a long time now. As a result, new software will require SSE2 unless the authors go out of their way to make it work on older processors.
@@louistournas120 defrag community suffers from changes in compilers too, and i was really disappointed finding i cannot run newest builds of ezquake on athlon xp, which is enough to play quake at about 500 fps but lacks sse2 support. Progress is so progress.
Thanks Phil, i just picked up a P3 450 on Ebay for 9 US dollars, I am looking for a good Slot One motherboard with a BX chipset
That is a video I like to see for a long time.
I would actually choose the Pentium III, but mainly because I have one lying around.
And damn, no steam without SSE2, how should I play Serious Sam now :)
GOG has Serious Sam I believe.
I got the Pentium III 450 in a gateway computer back in the day. Fast forward 3 years, and I was looking to upgrade the CPU.
Walked into a local PC repair and customization shop for an upgrade. They asked what I had, and when I told them, they laughed at me and insisted that it didn't exist.
They were wrong, and never got my business.
I had that P3 450 back in the day.
ah, I just found a pristine Compaq Presario in the dumpster. very little dust collection, very clean... probably only used for a short period of time. It was a pentium II 450MHz, it's really the computer I could never afford as a teenager. I just spent all my savings on a Pentium 166MHz back in the days. But as you know, technology improved so fast back then. It's gonna be a lot of fun testing it out. I have an old Radeon 9600Pro, definitely overkill. But I do cherish that it has DVI output for modern displays. I wonder what kind of performance to expect? :)
another great video, everyone believed pIII was better by magic in the 2000s. btw i wish i could play expendable but it is not working on windows10 x64
After the 300 Cel, owned a 300A and then the P!!! 450. Awesomeness! Next after that had a 667 Cel IIRC. I think the slot was dropped around 700MHz. Too bad, loved it very much. Good old times!
It was the same CPU with a few microcode and instruction updates, just a tiny update and rebrand mainly
Looking at the history behind Katmai's SEE implementation-it was half-baked. "The issue was that Katmai’s hardware-implementation contradicted the parallelism model implied by the SSE instruction-set. Programmers faced a code-scheduling dilemma: Should the SSE-code be tuned for Katmai's limited execution resources, or should it be tuned for a future processor with more resources?" This is why they had to come up with SSE2 later. Anyway, it would never have offered much in the way of significant performance improvements over the P-II 450 in regards to games of that generation. Whatever is cheaper on ebay is the one to get. ;)
Good analytical video. I have these two processors. PII with Riva TNT+Voodoo2. And PIII with Voodoo 4500. First build I made as my retro dream build. Second is in retirement. It was my moms's gift to me in 2002. And god damned some how, some way, I runed games from 2002 when top dog was P4 2.8 + GeForce4 ti4600. Also have this build. Thinking about PIII 733+TNT2. Because I remember that my pal had this. It was much faster and better looking than my PIII 450+VooDoo4
+PhilsComputerLab
I leaned in favor of the P3-450 as it was easily OC'd to 600mhz on a 133mhz fsb. The P2-450 was iffy on OCing as the Deschutes core had reached it's clock ceiling.
I’ve heard the piii 450 often had the cache chips of the 600 version which facilitated an OC where the pii likely had the rated half speed of the core cache rated chips max
lol, i got tons of this slot type processors, most of them is p3 933mhz. some couples of them is just a riser card that converts slot-a to socket 370.
For those who interested a simple PII 350 was able to read dvds flawless but not with all softwares (PowerDvd 4 for example because little power demanding:)
Hey Phil, I'm looking at upgrading a system I got with a 1.0 GHz PIII in it. Which would give better performance, a high end PGA 370 board, or a high end Slot 1 board with an adapter?
Is there an intro to instruction sets you'd recommend? I've always assumed they were basically dedicated silicon for executing the same instructions in fewer clock cycles or more complex instructions optimized in the same clock cycles hence you get better performance out of the same clock speed. Does this require more transistors on the chip? I'd imagine certain instruction sets are dropped over time due to being completely redundant or updated on newer sets. I've always been curious but never put much thought into instruction sets.
There would definitely need to be new transistors and circuits for instruction set extensions!
I didn't know for years and it didn't matter until recently but the chip with the smaller architecture almost always wins. Its good to notice a chips instruction sets to. Faster chips with limited instruction sets are garbage. imo
EDIT: Forgot to pick. I would of chose the p3 for future compatibility since it has the added on SSE instruction set. :)
I'd go with the 2, because it would. have the 90's feeling moreso than the 3.
That's a good reason :D
I prefer the PII as it reminds me of my childhood more! and I preferred the purple over the green on the case sticker hehe
Who would like to see the boring core i3/i5/i7 naming dropped and a return to the Pentium 5?!
Hardware Hackers It wouldn't be good from a marketing perspective, Pentium 4 was a failer, now Pentiums are low-end CPUs so it would make no sense making it a high-end brand, that would confuse people. Also Pentium is a bit out dated (it came from 586 - penta means 5 and -ium from latin chemistry names for example roentgenium, ununquadium, hydrogenium so it tries to say that it's important; it would be more like novium or decium (986/1086, actually 164/264 but whatever) :) haha
Good enough reason :D
It was my dream at the time. But as a teenager, it was very expensive and I could not afford it.
Great video, but I'd like to see more stressful benchmarks using Quake 3, or maybe what performance is like when overclocking.
?? Quake 3 is included!
Whoops my bad. I missed that part. xD Ignore me.
I have the same P3 450 but I've overclocked it to 560Mhz (best I can get on this chipset) with a Voodoo 3 @ 183/183. I can pull 49fps @ 1024x768. Rocket launchers kill the FPS.
No problem! For the time being I'm locked in with the benchmarks to compare. But I might mix things up when I move to different boards and sockets soon.
You should run some other programs (measuring file compress/extraction time, video encoding/decoding, opening and using some performance-eater programs, etc)
I had compatibility issue with my IBM 300 GL , the FSB was limited to 66mhz , so I could only install pentium II 300 mhz slot 1 . But luckily there was the adapter , ppga to slot 1 , I mounted celeron 400mhz MMX on it and it worked like a charm
id like to see a K6-2 450 compared to the p2 and 3
Good idea. Apart from Quake 2, do you know of any good games to showcase 3DNow! optimisations?
300a, please! the full speed on die cache should make it interesting :)
and to answer Phil's question, a link (using waybackmachine) web.archive.org/web/20001109071400/www1.amd.com/products/cpg/3dnow/optimized/
I'm more after first hand historic anecdotes, rather than a list. Quake II gets mentioned all the time, but not much else. Another game or two is all I need, ideally something that shows a HUGE boost.
Ah Expendable is listed and Quake III! That's another 2 games I got already :)
There was little difference in the silicon too, they were built on the same P6 microarchitecture and Katmai was just Deschutes with SSE jammed into it. Intel marketed the P3 hard to outdo AMD's K6-2 which had 3DNow. SSE accelerated floating point but 3DNow accelerated vectors, so it really depended what your app did and which CPU it was compiled for. In those days AMD arguably had the better microarch as you probably remember. There was a tangible advantage with later PIII Coppermine which shrunk the process so could achieve higher speeds with less power and heat.
K6-2 was largely inferior to PII in 3d games! I tested personally the game Unreal that gave me a 15fps difference !
They are both based on the very same P6 architecture, they are only on different manufacturing processes. They are essentially identical except for SSE support. PIII might as well have been named Pentium II (with) SSE (technology).
Using the naming scheme that intel used then the Intel MMX should have been the Pentium II. That however opens up the can of worms over if the Pentium II should have been named the Pentium Pro II.
@@LionWithTheLamb Back in the early to mid 90's, Intel made a right mess of things. It started OK with the 386 but then you had the 486 with SX, DX, DX2 and DX4 - for "regular" people all very confusing. And then you had the Overdrive processors which only confused things even more! Then came the 586 ... but it was called the Pentium. And then the Pentium MMX. And then the Pentium Pro. All of which confused the hell out of consumers. I vividly remember trying to explain to my dad why my new PC should have an MMX CPU (a P166 MMX) and he just didn't get it. And at the same time, other brands of CPUs became popular as well so I'm not surprised Intel decided to keep things simple with the Pentium II, III and 4.
The only difference I've noticed is that the P3 is much more smooth when it comes to software playback of DVDs thanks to SSE.
p3 450. p2 was great, but katmai (p3) introduced new instruction sets for gaming. Both will perform similarly for day to day tasks, but if you run games or 3d apps, you would see a large boost with the P3.
How do you like the Turtle Beach card?
I have a p3 500 in an ASUS 440BX board... There's very little motivation to get another processor from that era, even though there's a p2/celeron in the attic as well. I mostly use that board for the ISA slots, as it combines a relatively modern CPU with DOS era hardware compatibility.
With a Slot 1 board with 440BX you are all set! If you ever need more performance I can recommend getting a SlotKet with ~ 1GHz CPU, it makes quite the difference and doesn't cost as much as the real slot 1 1 GHz Pentium III.
@@philscomputerlab thanks for the suggestion, and I do like that 440BX system a lot, I am aware of slockets, but I've debated the benefit of more processor. Everything beyond is Windows-only games, with pretty much everything worthwhile running on newer hardware and operating systems, with or without patches. I'm thinking a real Voodoo card would be a better upgrade for this period system than more processor. (I currently have an AGP MX4000 in there because it's the only capable 3D AGP card I have that is either not broken or has no problems in 9x drivers, where like for example with the 6200LE newer driver paletted 2D games are broken)
Oh yes, 6200 is not a good fit. With your MX4000 I can recommend the 45.23 drivers. If you want to upgrade the GPU look out for a GeForce4 MX 440 or 460, these have 128 Bit memory interface, quite handy at higher resolutions or of using AA and AF.
Well, not too surprising here. There were architecture improvements from PII to PIII. I mean, the Core series is based on the PIII in a way.
I thik PII is better choice for retrobuild. With cache disable it perfect compatibility with old dos games. I don't know how p3-450 will work with it. I use PII-450 with AGP VooDoo 5 5500 + Voodoo2 12Mb (for dos, disabled in win 98) + AWE32 + MQ MPU-401 with MT-32 and SC-55. For data transfer i use Intel PRO100 and it fork with full 100mbit speed ~10mbytes per second. I try buid different system with P1-200MMX, DX4-100, K6-2/3 and think current solution is best.
Even if a game doesn't support SSE, the graphics drivers still might use it. Hence you can see a benefit in all games across the board.
Just got a pentium 2 450 the other day. was in a computer that was being thrown out, the case was to heavy to haul away but checked inside and saw a p2 sitting inside so yoinked it and the ram before it got sent to the dump.
I got a PII400 on a BiostarM6TBA.. this motherboard is rock solid but not made for overclock ! Also has issues with AGP voltage demanding videocards (Radeon9250 is unstable!) any ideas ?
I have one question, which memtest to use to test P3 machine?
Heres what I think : Unless you absolutely need the SSE instruction set on the Pentium III, I'd go with what ever is available and cheaper in your area. Its possible that perhaps for some people the P2 450mhz might be cheaper or more expensive the the P3 450mhz depending on the supply and demand in the area.
Here in Europe PentiumII 450 are ultra-rare ! I got a solid PII400@450 with SoftFSB :)
P3 can decode mpeg 2 video on the fly
@philscomputerlab I have a Asus P2-99 with a Pentium III 450. ATI 3D Rage IIC AGP and 256mb of RAM, should I build this as a Win98 machine or DOS? Thank you.
Not that great for either but if you use a better graphics it will be ok for Windows 98 games. Something like a Riva TNT2.
@@philscomputerlab I was looking at a XFX GeForce FX5200, what do you think about that?. Also, I found the P3 1000 MhZ. My big question is this, should I continue with this build or go with the P4 windows 98 build you have in your video? Btw, i am an expat living in China, lots of parts here
@@drfunkenstein2k The FX needs a better CPU to get going. A TNT2 or Geforce2 with old drivers will be best. Even better a Voodoo 3 or Banshee but good luck finding one at a good price.
Should I buy P3 800EB Slot 1 thingy?
Such a great chip for it's day, the pentium 2 was. Of course 3 years later, it was very obsolete. The good ole' 90s; where computer tech was crazy expensive and obsolete in only a few years.
The K6-2 helped fixed that trend, as K6-2 machines were very competitive with the Pentium 2s, and really cheap by comparison. We got our Pentium 2 450 in 1998, and a budget K6-2 350 machine in 1999. Each with an upgraded video card, it was amazing how close the AMD machine came in performance. Only problem was it's horrible SiS chipset that ours had.
As someone who stuck with an OC'd K6-2 450 (OC'd to 500) with Voodoo 3 from '99 to '03-04 (Where I upgraded to P4 + Geforce4 TI4800) one could get A LOT of performance for the money.
But it was one heck of a jump though. xD
From Win 98 to Win XP and 2 GHz more on the CPU, HT and 8x more VRAM and ditto on performance.
I think Half-Life 2 was the kicker for me.
I didn't upgrade for GTA 3 'cause my machine back then, just barely met the minimum requirements. xD
@@janwitkowsky8787 The K6-2 was a great chip back then. My mom's PC that my friends would use for gaming had a K6-350, and I think I put my old video card in it eventually, an FX5600 or something. Seemed to keep up close with my P2-450, but the SiS chipset in that K6-2 PC was garbage.
I've tested personally K6-2 vs Pentium2 and ,though in some situations they equal (ie: watch dvds, 2d apps), in 3d games Pentium2 wins hands down (Unreal timedemo 52fps vs 32fps !)
Which game were you playing during the video?
That's Expendable!
Having something similar, the ABIT BE6-II motherboard.... its just perfect for running with a Katmai P3 500Mhz cpu and a Voodoo3 2000 agp2x video card for some good old fasioned 3dfx gaming.
Yea my Abit Slot 1 board is just awesome, they made some great boards.
Pentium II if you have a Voodoo 2, and Pentium III if you own a Voodoo 3. It just mentally fits. I notice that the PII 450 is harder to find these days, and more expensive too. I privately own a PII 333, because I like the 66 MHz FSB.
Easy rule, I like it 😀
The answer is you should get the Celeron A 300 and clock it to 450Mhz with mobo supporting 100Mhz FSB.
I just got a couple of PIII 450s for free and I have a P200MMX so I am fine with not getting a PII.
Kinda thinking.
Can I buy games on GOG, do the manual download, then install said game in XP or Win98 without worry about tweaks?
'Cause I really wanna try out 'Interstate 76' again.
They will install on XP, but not on Windows 98.
Only difference us p3/450 has SSE instructions, other than that they are identical. Ive had them both
I guess, for Performance PIII 450, but I prefer the PII 450 as it is the fastest PII. That's why I build a System with it together with Rendtion V2200 8MB, Voodoo Graphics and PowerVR. It's a very good running Win98SE System and a API Monster :-D
And winn xp ? I have a 500mhz Pentium 3 and it's ok in win XP but windows 7 runs very bad in xp internet lags too
interesting the difference isn't bigger, since the first P4's were actually slower than P3's in office tasks..
Tualatin or even coppermine make a diffirence from deschutes, but katmai it's almost the same, SSE... like almost all new feature implemented in 1st generation of cpu/gpu is something wonderfull on the paper but in real life make no diffirence (ok sometimes top models of generation is capable to use some features effectivly).
I think the difference would exist in newer games due to SSE, I remember the GTA 3 readme file saying specifically to avoid Pentium II and that PIII 450 was the minimum CPU (and the game runs on the PII, but kind of slow), I think the games you tested were basically not made to use SSE.
Yes good point. However, how does GTA 3 run on the P III 450? It might be one of those features that wasn't used for a while, and at that point hardware had moved on anyway? Just guessing though as this era is a bit of a unknown for me :)
PhilsComputerLab I want to see gaming on windows NT 4.0
That also moes to my mind, are games that actually benefit from SSD or have it even as a requirement actually run proiperly on the slower P3.
I played GTA III everyday for years on my Pentium 2 400, 400Mhz. It ran great frame rates, but did slow down a bit in the middle island in the city area.
Phil, I have literally just installed steam on a p3 machine, so you might want to check it and revise your recommendation ;)
:O For real? Dang, well that's good news for all the Pentium III fans. Is there anything in the change logs of a recent update?
They released an update that removes the SSE2 installer requirement. But at the time I'd mentioned that to you, it was valid. Though internet installers for some blizzard games: Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2, still have the installer packaged with SSE2 code, keeping many AMD systems and Pentium 3 and lower systems from installing. Starcraft and broodwar still work.
I have a Intel Pentium 3 800mhz, i installed steam and it works fine. (If i could upgrade to 1ghz)
Nice!
forget steam. i played warcaft 3 with both 4mb and 256mb video ram. pii 450mhz and very little ram. The real wc three disc wrs fine
I had a p3 450 MHz with an intel SE440BX, 256MB of RAM, and TNT2 Ultra with 32MB in 1998 to 2000. It was quite a good machine back then, but it became obsolete quite fast due to pentium4's and AMD original Athlons that ramped the speed quite fast from 450 MHz to 1.4GHz+
Good old days. I went from a p333/celeron 300 to an AMD Duron, man was an upgrade that was.
I went from the 450MHz p3 to a 1.4 GHz Athlon. I remember the AMD Duron was an overclocking champion.
Similar story here, though I had 128MB RAM and a regular TNT (which was later upgraded to a GeForce2 MX). That got replaced in 2002 with an AMD Athlon XP 2100+ with 512MB RAM and an ATI Radeon 8500LE.
Would be interesting to see with modern hardware what would be better, ddr3 at 2133 mhz or ddr4 at 2133 mhz. In my main desktop build, I have an i7-4770k with 16 gbs of ddr3 ram at 2400 mhz.
Effective data rate being equal the memory with better timings and less refresh time would win. But which is it I don't know. Don't remember typical timings off the top.
If I had to buy I would go with the cheaper one, they are so close together that it won't matter.
Basically speaking. It comes down to what you'r wallet dictates? 🤔 They are really close. Regarding the thing were quake are faster on the PII. Could this possible be somewhat related to the thing, were risc traditionally have been faster than cisc? I know they are both cisc. Just that. There are less instructions in the PII. I dont know. It is only a thought.
Ahhh... I see. Did not know that. The reason for me asking, is that I remember those times, when risc cpu's were much faster clock for clock compared to cisc. Then I have no exact answer to why they are so close.
They took Pentium II, added SSE, make small changes and you have a Pentium III; I don't think it has something to do with RISC/CISC.
Thanks. :-)
My voodoo2 SLI system has a Pentium 3 450mhz cpu simply because it is what I had . I want a Pentium 2 for it but have not got around to ordering one .
GOG does not require SSE or MMX )
What's the game playing in the video ? It looks like some kind of mod for Quake2...
Phil mentions it at the beginning. It's Millennium Soldier: Expendable.
Thank you!
i would love to see what slot 1 CPU is the best overall
i would also love to see one is best for value
and one that is great value for a low budget system
Pentium III Tualatin 1400 with a sloket.
But for native Slot 1, probably the 1000B Coppermine with 133 FSB. It exists native for Slot 1.
For a budget that depends on the speed. Something like a Celeron 300A, those were used quite often back in the day and almost always were able to be clocked to 450 MHz. Or P3 450 & 500, should be quite available even today.
Without converters and overclocking the bus, I believe 1 GHz is the top end. With prices and value, the slowest and best is usually poor value. Something in the middle though should be good value, like a 600 or 700 MHz.
soooo, instead of this explanation being a comment, make it into a video so people don't have to sift through each and every video to find this exact comment
now thats an awesome idea!
Next episode of Intel vs AMD!
I would like to see a comparison between the Pentium 233 and the Pentium II 233. I plan on getting Pentium II 233, underclock as needed to play games where the CPU is too fast like Descent.
Check the video "First Slot CPU". Now if you want to do "slow down tricks" with caches, I can save you a lot of time and recommend to go with the Pentium, not Pentium II :D
I will check that out. I did see your video on using the K6-iii 450+ to run it down to a 386; very cool. I did use Throttle utility to slow down my P3 650 down to a nice speed for Descent. My wife has also been quite tolerant of me having taken some of the dining room for retro building. To add yet another might push it over the edge. My end goal is to have a nice P2/3 build and an Athlon 64 build to cover a wide range. Below that, I might rely on DOSBox for the really old stuff.
or even a Pentium 3, 1.4 ghz vs a Pentium 4 1.4 ghz
Yea that is interesting. But it usually becomes a system comparison as there are so many chipsets and memory options. And there are historic comparisons (What was around at the time) vs. what is easily available now and can be had for cheap.
P2 450 as it is unlocked, if you need SSE then you'll probably want a faster cpu anyway for games.
ah Phil I see you now using the mighty Santa Cruz, good stuff but I don't remember seeing your review on it, have I missed it?
I've been using it for a long time actually :) Haven't done a sound card review in a while though.
2:47 omg i need that
Hi, What is the game in the majority of video?. Great video thank you.
Expendable!
I've got a ton of PIII-450 but only one PII-450.
AmstradExin Because the P2 was expensive and the best and P3 was cheap and the worst P3, I rarely even see P2-400 but P3-450/733 etc - a ton
Exactly.
yeah PII450 are much rare afaik :)
hi phil . please show test bench parts assembly (mb cpu gpu ......) in future videos . in recent videos you removed this section from vids :(
It's the same exact setup for the last few weeks...
I wouldn't, I'd pick whatever slot 1 is faster, so that's like p3 600mhz or something IIRC
Pentium III Katmai is my PC from 20 years ago. I have installed MS-DOS 6.22 - no graphics or sound card as MB has integrated function. No games - just C/C++ software development. If I want to play video game I have Nintendo 3DS: Animal Crossing New Leaf. Perhaps if Animal Crossing was ported to MS-DOS platform I would install graphics & sound cards & play it. Being Mayor of small village populated with anthropomorphic animals is challenging.
I would pick... the Athlon 500mhz (and I did :P ) It is unsurprising to see little to no difference between the cpu's, they were in essence the exact same cpu, but they slapped sse into the p3 and marketted it as a whole new chip. it wasnt till later pentium 3's that we saw the real changes in arch
Yeah KAtmai wasn''t that much of a difference. Coppermine with 133 MHz FSB and higher clock rates did a nice push and then obviously Tualatin with 512kB full speed cache and a prefetch logic.
if my motherboard pc chips m729 says it supports until pentium II 450, can i put a pentium III 450 without problems??
It should, but there is no guarantee, depends on the BIOS support.
Tl;dr - the Katmai Pentium III was a paper part. Should have called it the Pentium II 450A and then the 500, 600, etc. Then reserved the Pentium III name for Coppermine.
I had a P!!! 450 on a 440BX for awhile. I think I got it because I thought SSE was really important or something. Before I just had a P200, I think.
K6 III vs Athlon when?
That be a big difference:P
Pentium III 450 Mhz is a new step to improve from 16 bit to 32 bit system that is not supported by the Pentium II 450 Mhz
I would like to see a compare of pentium 233mhz vs pentium2 233mhz
Check my past videos!
Oh, i remember that :) Customer: "i don't need a P3, it is not faster then my PII". Well true at release, but that changed fast ...
My first PC bought with my own money was a Pentium III 450 - cost €2800 back in july 1999. 128MB RAM & a DVD drive (which was very unusual at the time). The store tried to get me a Pentium II instead (old stock?) but I would have none of it. They did convince me to get a Riva TNT 2 instead of a Voodoo 3 and I DID regret caving in because the TNT2 overheated in no time and broke and they lost the card (cost me €300 back then!) when they send it in for repairs. They refused to even refund it, laid the blame with Guillemot.
@@redavatar nice story. Voodoo3 was much better for longrun, as they were very quality made cards, with quality components and good logic. They overheated but it just didn't destroy them. They were very durable cards. Reviews often overlooked this. For me, it seemed, there were already war between Nvidia , first to destroy 3dfx, and then trying to destroy Ati (succedded only partially, as AMD bought them). It's so pity 3dfx was destroyed so early, I would like to have 3d card faster than voodoo5, based on one chip, with support for Glide, for backward compatilibity. Something as fast as Geforce 2 Ultra. This card is missing for retro builds, now people have to use Geforce 2 combo with 2 voodoo2 cards in SLI, which is slow in Glide in 1024x768.
Have voodoo3 to this date in retro rig, but thinking about puting active fan on it, so it overheat less and last longer. Computer was used from 2003 (then I've bough it and upgraded it from office PC to retro win98 rig) till 2011. It was used quite often as we had often LAN parties here. Then it was put in storage room, in last month I had retro- nostalgia flash, read lots of retro reviews and watched videos, and I've taken it out, just for fun, after almost 9 years. Still working, lol. Those slot 1 PCs and voodoo and BX440 motherboards are incredible durable stuff. The only thing I should change is Power supply. It's period correct computer, but that power supply is 200W noname, typical late 90's... it can destroy components if it blow up. But I lost era-correct computer, by inserting new power supply, but it will be safer .
@@warrax111 Yeah a LOT of stores skimped on the power supplies. This really expensive PC had a dirt cheap power supply as well which died a year later. That computer store closed only a year or so later - they were incompetent anyway.
I have salvaged a P!!! 450 from an oldie computer sometime ago. So basically, if the need arises, I will go with that.
P.S: There is a slot Pentium 2 at 500mhz. Trust me, I had one.
That´s interesting. I never heard of a PII 500Mhz. Every site states 450Mhz as maximum clock. Maybe you have an unreleased PII model. Conserve it well.
@@rcarkk He had Pentium III 500 mhz for sure. Pentium II 500 mhz can be achieved only by overclocking. Maybe he had 333 Mhz one, that has multiplier 5x, and ran it on 100 Mhz FSB motherboard... that is 5x100 = 500 mhz.
@@warrax111 Makes sense
@@rcarkk I was thinking of it, and I know, what probably happened.
There is a pin mod, thanks to what motherboard detects 66mhz FSB like 100 mhz. This trick was used also in Pentium II era, particulary on Celerons. Usually Celeron 300A, after this pin mod, could run 450 Mhz.
Sometimes, when one was extremly lucky, he could get very good bin 333 Mhz (66x5) Pentium II. Someone probaby made pin mod on the pentium. It could be done even permanently by soldering something. Motherboard then detected it like Pentium II 500 mhz, even HWinfo tool detected it as Pentium II 500 Mhz.
I just tried on my BX440 PII 400 motherboard, to switch jumper for multiplier on motherboard from 4x to 3x. It is working. Seems Pentium II were locked only way up. Both motherboard and HWInfo detected it as Pentium II 300, although it is Pentium II 400 originally.
So he probable got such permanently modified Pentium 333Mhz to 500 Mhz. It was extremly rare, cause only very few handled such overclock. Much safer and wider spread was to take 300, ale got it to 450. That worked like 90%. On Celerons without cache, it worked almost 100%. Because it was mainly cache, that didn't handled that overclock. Pentium II cache ran on half speed of processors. At 450, it's 225. Not all cache chips handled it. But on Celerons, there was not cache, so they all could be overclocked from 300 to 450, if motherboard supported 100 FSB.
So there are two variants. Eighter, he had Pentium III 500 Mhz (Katmai) and remember it wrong, or he got pin moded Pentium II 333, that worked on 5x100 = 500 mhz. As he puted it to motherboard, it automaticaly switched FSB to 100, and with that multiplier of 5, which 333mhz Pentium II has, it showed Pentium II at 500 mhz at starting screen. If he was given that Pentium by someone other, that " it is Pentium II 500" , he could not know it was pinmoded overclocked Pentium II 333. It wasn't mentioned anywhere. He would need to take out passive cooler from that Pentium II, and would detect that pin mod on it by eyes. Also, on chip, there would be probably marking Pentium II 333 / 66 / 2.0v.
Those times when PCs draw the same power in Full than in Idle.
i had a p3 500 on my first pc, i used to think it was so much better than pentium 2's back in the day.
boy, i was wrong....
Use GoG instead of steam.
They only have a handful of games compared to Steam I'm afraid. But I do use GOG all the time though.
Celeron 300a @ 450mhz beats them both. Full speed cache FTW.
unaclocker celeron sucks
Yup, it was also only 1/4 the price of a P3-450 too.
Pentium 3 because just scored a Compaq Desktop pro Pentium 3 450hz with the ESS sound chip and no clue on the screwed down graphics card not sure if to hacksaw a slot in the case to add an All in One Wonder 128 with 32mb VRAM so it can be used S Video not just a monitor although no clue on the max RAM the build takes it was £55 in awesome condition yet the graphics card slot is a half sized in the case just strange that needs converted
Best 450MHz CPU? Celeron 300A in my opinion :)
Pentium III should be named Pentium II with SSE. Same happened to Pentium when it received MMX support.