Use both for different occasions. When you are on hiking or do some serious physical activities, wear synthetic jacket. When you are in the camp or just go around town by car/bus, wear the down one.
THANK YOU! Watched about 15 videos on down vs. synth and wanted to know how down handles as an active insulation. I need a vest to wear under my shell jacket - I was worried about down getting wet from my sweat and loosing its warmth. You were the first to even mention this, so thank you again. I'll get a synthetic based on your video.
I have 3 down vests & 4 synthetic vests. One being a Columbia Omni Heat (not sure if it's considered synthetic). I LOVE the feel & look of down although feathers can come out after a while. And down vests are very soft, warm & comfortable. I have 2 Tommy Hilfiger Synthetic vests which are actually very warm, a North Face vest (not so warm and quite skinny) and the Columbia Omni Heat which is pretty warm as well!! I say.. GET BOTH!!!
My synthetic Northface vest started fading in color so I got rid of it. The Columbia Omni heat is still in great condition 4+ yrs later! All the Eddie Bauer down vests are still in great condition! I’d say they are both great
You are informed, logic and non superfluous. If I were a beginner this would be bliss and if I am not this would be gratifying at any rate. Please make more videos of this concise quality!
I’m going to buy a winter jacket today for hiking. Appreciate the info. Still haven’t decided what will work best for me unfortunately. I live I KY, USA and want to use it around the Appalachian Mountains and on the AT in the future. Maybe I should just buy both lol. Heavy hit to the wallet! Great video!! Enjoyed 🙌🏻
Jeremiah Stringer Hikes I would definitely get a synthetic puffer if you want it for hiking. It’s going to be much better at drying out if you sweat heavily into it, and with strenuous activity into a puffy coat, you are going to sweat into it.
After many years of hiking I am done with down insulation. My go-to is Apex Shield. Verry happy with it. Lightweight, durable, easy to wash and keeps you even warm when wet.
Personally, I prefer synthetic. Down is too hot not warm for activities. Plus, getting wet when you sweat defeating it's warmth purpose. Synthetic is a very good balance.. active and static...warm when u sweat or don't... better for layering...as well
Makes sense if I go bikepacking in UK, Spring to Autumn, even for 1 to 3 days then. Wish it could pack small and light like down, but I guess cons of down in this climate outweights the prons, when you got your experience ruined in the middle of nowhere...
Exactly the information I was looking for, thank you! Need a vest for several days long treks in the mountains and if it's gonna be the only puffy I'm taking with me, it should probably be a synthetic.
Nothing will beat an oil skin, canvas or leather waxed outer with merino gaberdine wool felt lining a down inner. It might be expensive but if you are talking about best quality there is no question. Good video about the various plastics versus natural though. As the old saying goes, people who die in the woods wear cotton, people who visit the woods wear synthetics but people who live in the woods wear wool.
👍 Now that is an interesting observation. I tend to gravitate towards the 'Woods Dweller', having relied on and trusted Wool for many years now. I have a Down 'Puffy' that is very nice .. however, at any hint of rain, it skulks in the cupboard, refusing to come out to be replaced by Wool and Fleece 😊. Lightweight '100% Lambs Wool' Pullovers (Woolworths Brand) and the trusty 100% Wool Genuine British 'Woolly Pully' have served me well for years. Throw in a Woollen Top Coat (New York Mafiosi Style) bought for a song at a bargain store and Bob's your Uncle. Actually, Wool and Synthetic Fleece make for a very good Combo .. Down too (dry cold) .. but you're 100% correct. For long term hard core, Wool is it!
Great reviews on both types of jackets. I have a synthetic jacket, as that’s all I could afford at the time of purchase, but it’s been a faithful old price of kit in the 3 years I have owned it. Incidentally, I was at school with a guy called Phil Power… I’ll get me coat…
Good comparison, to add to this synthetic options of course keep getting better and better at matching the pros of down. Can you do a video showing the wash and re-proofing process? I keep meaning to re-proof my Atom LT...
Hi again, thank you for taking the time to respond. I am looking for something as breathable as possible but not weather resistant but proof, it is very important to me that I stay dry. I won’t be climbing any mountains but at the same time I love walking in all kinds of weather as well as to and fro work. Cheers
Thanks for the extra information! Are you looking for an insulated jacket or a hardshell? Essentially, the best way to manage your breathability is to wear layers rather than an insulated jacket which is also waterproof such as the Rab Valiance; this allows you to remove layers once you warm up rather than overheating, or add layers if the temperature changes and you begin to feel cold. If you wore a breathable baselayer such as an Icebreaker, then a grid fleece such as the Arc'teryx Delta (only if you required extra warmth) then a hardshell such as the Mountain Equipment Firefox Axel, you'd have some of the most breathable layers that will also keep you dry. Everyone works differently and no one will wear the same layers, so even though I've recommended three layers, you don't have to wear them all at the same time if it's not cold enough or if the rain dies down, alternatively you may require warmer layers. I'll pop the correct links below: Icebreaker Baselayer: www.trekitt.co.uk/36496/products/icebreaker-mens-oasis-ls-crewe-gritstone.aspx Arc'teryx Fleece: www.trekitt.co.uk/34937/products/arcteryx-mens-delta-lt-jacket-nocturne.aspx M.E Hardshell: www.trekitt.co.uk/36186/products/mountain-equipment-mens-firefox-axel-waterproof-jacket-kiwi.aspx
Quick question! My north face nuptse can back away into a stow bag, leaving the coat in a stow bag makes me wonder if it will leave some of the down to clump in certain areas. Is this true? Is there anything cons of packing a 700 fill down jacket into a stow bag?
There is not a problem with stuffing any down jacket into a stuff bag, provided it's only for short periods of time. For instance, in your pack when hiking, or when travelling. But the jacket should never be stored for long periods in a compressed state as this will certainly reduce the loft. Paul.
It depends on using what kinds of Down insulated for the jacket, if using whitegoose hi count of down mixed with feather, would be best. It is warm enough, puffy, and easy to handle become an small bag into backpack. Down jck is much better than synthetic insulation.
The main attraction to a down jacket is that it's super lightweight, packable and offers plenty of warmth; however adding a waterproof membrane to the outer of that jacket would massively increase the pack size and weight; it would also negatively affect the breathability. If you are using a down jacket in wet conditions, it's far more effective to pop a separate waterproof jacket over the top, then when it stops raining, you have the option to take the waterproof off to increase breathability again.
Can you layer a down jacket underneath a (non-breathable) rain jacket while hiking? Or is the moisture from your sweat enough to make it lose its loft?
You can layer a down jacket under a shell if the weather warrants it, just ensure you aren't wearing too many layers which will cause you to overheat and consequently become wet from the inside due to sweat. Sweat shouldn't affect the loft of the jacket.
Down to go ! - - - i get the "cruelty" argument but we eat ducks anyhow , . . . but synthetic takes 100years+ to disintegrate in landfill, compared to feathers . . .
I first saw down garments in the 70's then they were rather y expensive ... 30 years later they got a lot cheaper and quality improved - I have been using one for over 10 years for every day no colds at all would recommend highly
I just got a fjallraven skogso padded jacket. It has their g-loft supreme, a fancy name for their synthetic insulation. Love the jacket, but will it be ineffective in a few years because of the synthetic insulation? From what I understand it's on the higher end of the spectrum in terms of durability. That said, prior to this video, all my jackets in the past we synthetic, and I never noticed a difference....
No, not at all! Although down jackets do last longer with regular care and maintenance, it's not uncommon for synthetically insulated jackets to last up to 10 years of regular use. Kind regards, Harry.
Has anyone heard of Thermore Eco-down?? Is it any good? I can't find any comparisons of it with Primaloft etc. The company appears to have been around a while!? Cheers, Cam from NZ :)
Looks interesting! Can't say we have any direct experience with it, but the credentials do look promising for a synthetic insulation. One to keep an eye on.
Obviously down is better but more expensive. My price comprise is an 80% goose 20% duck. Buy in the summer as winter gear prices are much lower also buy last year's stock that is another way of saving dosh.
What would be the best jacket for the e-bike in winter of UK, the driest East Anglia region? I was testing down jacket Mountain Equipment Trango with polyamid outer layer and it felt light and comfortable for e-bike rides in winter. With e-bike the cold is a problem because I do not work hard enough to generate heat but also sweating is not a problem.
What type of jacket are you looking for? An insulated jacket/softshell/hardshell? A Mountain Equipment Kinesis might be worth a look if you're after something lightly insulated but with plenty of breathability.
@@trekitt Hi, thank you for reply. I am looking for insulated jacket because it should be winter jacket. I would prefer more of softshell because on bicycle I need to bend over to riding position. It does not need to be full waterproof, just water resistant. The Kinesis model looks good with polyamide outer layer. Now I cannot decide which one to buy ?
I bought the Mountain Equipment Trango down jacket with water resistance on the Black Friday. I have just tested this jacket on 50 km route at temperature 5C and with very heavy fog. On the distance of 20 m there was no visibility, it was like a small rain. I was dry and warm. This jacket is simply perfect for e-bike, very light and warm but breathable enough. It has lots of pockets 7 in total which are very useful when riding on e-bike.
We love wool as a baselayer, but as an outer layer it tends to be heavy, quite expensive and doesn't pack down particularly small. It does however have great temperature-regulation, anti-odour properties and retains most of its warmth when wet, so it just depends what you're using the garment for. Kind regards, Harry.
Not quite clear on your definition of fill power. I have an 800FP Rab jacket. According to my understanding of your equation, it has about a football field’s volume of down. Can you please explain again. Thanks.
Down is rated according to fill power (the loft quality). Fill power is an internationally recognised measurement of how well down will “loft”. Loft describes how “fluffy” the insulation is, the “fluffier” down is the more space it can occupy and the more warm air it can trap to keep you warm. It is represented by the number of cubic inches one ounce of down will occupy (e.g. if one ounce of down takes up a volume of 650 cubic inches it is given a 650 fill power rating). The quality of down is directly related to its fill power rating. Higher quality down has a higher fill power and is much loftier than down of a lower quality. This means you'd require fewer ounces of down to create the same level of warmth. The higher the fill power the better the down will insulate, because there is less chance of cold spots forming.
A couple things I like about down. It is not plastic made from petroleum. And I have pieces I have had for many years. It seems to have a larger temperature range. Then again I live in the dry US mountain west.
The amount of oil required to make a synthetic jacket is tiny relative to other uses and is actually an excellent use for it. Compare outdoor clothing to aviation and it would be millions:one in terms of use.
Good point. I have also read that every time you wash your fleece you send micro-plastics into the water. Again possibly a minor amount compared to other plastic issues. But we have to all do our part. Especially outdoors people.
@@granthaller9544 Hi Grant - haha we sound very similar! I too was concerned about microplastics from fleeces etc & emailed a number of suppliers (including Paramo & Arc'teryx) to ask them about it. The response was that shedding only tends to be an issue with lower qualty fleece, the type where you can visibly see the fibres, whereas technical fleece such as Polartec powergrid is much more durable & it does not occur. I tested this by using a microfibre catcher in my wash for several months & was delighted to find that my outdoor clothing didn't shed. Hope this helps and best of luck in the outdoors.
Regarding the price - the high-quality Primaloft is quite expensive as well. For example, the Montane Icarus jacket is similar price-wise to the Rab Microlight alpine one.
That is true, PrimaLoft is one of the more expensive options, but down simply requires more effort to collect, wash, sterilise, sort, etc, so it'll most likely always be a little more pricey. Harry
Unfortunately it's pretty difficult to give a timescale as it depends where you are in the world, whether you use a heavy pack, how often it gets used, which layers you have over the top (if any), etc. Some synthetics may last a year or two in the hands of a mountain guide, some others may last 10 years and above with someone who largely uses it on the weekends for general walking. Sorry that's not more specific, but be assured the synthetically insulated jackets we stock are designed to take some abuse! Kind regards, Harry.
I don’t get why manufacturers don’t just build in a waterproof shell layer on top of the down. That would make it warm and waterproof? Seems like an obvious solution
Because generally the aim of a down jacket is to offer high amounts of warmth with a low weight and a small pack size. Adding a waterproof shell drastically increases the weight, the cost, the packsize and reduces breathability. If you're wearing the jacket on a cold, dry, crisp day, the waterproof shell would be wasted. This is why manufacturers (and retailers like us) recommend you layer clothing rather than have it all in one, therefore you can adapt it to your environment. Kind regards, Harry.
They do have ski gears that have a waterproof layers on top of down. I like the 3 in 1 idea, where a shell can be attached and removed from a down jacket.
interesting, a down cleaner. The soap i use for any outdoor gear, synthetic, wool, fleece and down jackets, sleeping bag and the like is '''' SUNGLIGHT '''' Soap, a classic soap here in Aotearoa ( although you could find alternatives worldwide.) All it is really just a normal soap with low PH. Never had issues with using that bar soap method. Also it was originally designed to be used on dishes, clothes AND skin. Very neutral soap. I naturally dry all my freshly washed Down gear, booties, sleeping bags, jackets,gilets etc all get thoroughly hand wringed out ( be gentle but firm - ish) then dry in cool place for a few days to a week if it is rainy - ish outside in a high airflow area (garage, attic etc) throw them on a clothes line ( fence, window sill, just somewhere to get vertical for the gear to dry) in the sun, flip over every few hours ( bring in or out when sun isn't home) and every toss turn every now and then, gently knead by hand the clumps. Once realitive-ish dry, get a tennis ball and lay item on a flat surface and just bounce or chuck the ball at the down item, breaks the clumps.
I'm afraid we don't personally have any tests comparing the two. Outdoor Research has a good blog with a bit more info in which may be useful though; I'll pop a link below. Kind regards, Harry. www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/article/down-vs.-synthetic-whats-the-difference-between-down-and-synthetic-insulati
@@JoeZUGOOLA "The North Face™ developed a partnership with PrimaLoft® to offer a new synthetic alternative to down. ThermoBall™ is a revolution in insulation technology. Unlike traditional, continuous-filament synthetic insulations, the small round PrimaLoft® synthetic fiber clusters closely to mimic down clusters; trapping heat within small air pockets to retain warmth."
It's normal for feathers to poke their way through eventually; maybe not on the first day though. The key is to not pull them out - try to push them back in. Harry
Each brand has their own idea of what a medium/large is, so the only way to know for sure is to try both on with the layers you're expecting to wear. The only time we'd recommend sizing up is if you're purchasing the jacket as either a belay piece or when throwing it over all your other layers when stationary. Kind regards, Harry.
It's the Montane Phoenix Jacket; the same jacket on the right hand side of the table but in Tibetan. www.trekitt.co.uk/35991/products/montane-womens-phoenix-jacket-tibetan.aspx
Good info, but this is well known and can be found on any website. In the VIDEO you are supposed to show things. For example, you say : "much heavier", "more volume".... you could have demonstrated those things by packing and weighting those jackets you have, so we can see the difference. One other point. If you are wearing a shell over midlayer, down might get compressed too much and lose its efficacy.
Hi V8, we provide these videos for those who might prefer a visual explanation over a written one, making it hopefully easier to digest. The main reason we didn't pack down/weigh the jackets in the video is that there is no fair comparison. Each jacket uses difference face fabrics, zips, pockets etc which all contribute to the overall weight. That being said, we'll have a think how we can add more fair visual demonstrations for future videos. Kind regards.
Very nice video! Unfortunately there are no "humane" way to obtain down whatever the companies say, how can it be possible to obtain those little feathers from an alive animal and not causing a horrible suffering 😭🦆
In most cases, the down is a bi-product of the meat industry, so the birds are put down before the down is collected. Brands such as Mountain Equipment take it a step further and ensure the down isn't collected from birds which have been live plucked or force fed and have been raised in good conditions. I'll pop a link below if you wanted to have a read. Kind regards, Harry. www.thedowncodex.co.uk/the-down-codex/
They do have hybrid jackets now. I believe that every down piece should contain 20-25% synthetic in problem areas like the back, hood, shoulders and arms. Also it would speed drying and be a fail safe in case of wetness
Hi and tank’s for a very great video! But, where I live many people love and live outdoor live and hiking and cross country skiing often includes camp fires. As kids we where always told by our parents to keep away from fire in nylon puffer jackets. At that time, most of them where polyester filled. They where said to explode in fire (most to scare us kids I suppose). Is there any differens from fire safety aspekt between down filled and synthetic filled jackets? Any tests made? Think I have seen some scene on TV once with a puffer jacket burning furiously, don’t know of it was down or synthetic filled.
Both nylon and polyester fabrics are flammable, but not so much that they'd explode; the melting of the fabrics is what typically causes burns. Down can also catch fire but won't melt. So, going back to your original question, there won't be much difference between most down and synthetically insulated jackets as they both use nylon/polyester fabrics, the only exception to this are jackets which use polycotton fabrics such as Fjallraven. Kind regards, Harry.
@@trekitt thank you for answer! I have understood that they don’t ”explode”, thats some bad stories circulating. Was just wondering if there are differences between synthetic and down filling. The shell ar mostly the same as you said, nylon or polyester. Havn’t seen any comparing tests. Best Regards
It is true, synthetic insulation will lose some of its thermal efficiency (heat-trapping capabilities) over time, and this tends to happen quicker with synthetic compared to down insulation. (There are many different types of synthetic insulation and some are more durable than others, which is something to take into account). Don't worry though, we are not saying that in a couple of years time you will need to replace your jacket, it takes a good few years of heavy use before you will even notice the difference. As long as you aren't storing your jackets compressed for long periods of time or washing and drying it too much then you'll be fine (these rules apply to both types of insulation).
Hi, what a great straight forward simple to follow video. I was a north face nut at on point, while I found their products very warm I found that they did not breath very well and absolutely useless in damp or wet weather. I’m not looking for products that can breathe and keep me bone dry. Any suggestions? Cheers
Hi Dan, we just need to clarify what you mean in your last sentence; are you looking for a highly breathable and weather resistant insulation piece? If so, what will you be getting up to in the jacket activity wise?
It depends! Synthetic insulation is great for stop-start activities or where stationary for extended periods of time, down is great for faster moving activities as it tends to be more breathable. Synthetic is more versatile as it can be worn in wet weather, down is better for cold, dry conditions or when weight and pack size is a priority. It all comes down to which fits your lifestyle. Kind regards, Harry.
@@trekitt haha it seems like you still don't know which is best. There's a perfect layer jacket system, personally I don't think Down is that good, synthetic is more versatile like you said.
We wouldn't recommend it. Store it in the open to allow it to loft fully, therefore allowing it to trap more air and keep you warmer when you put it on. If it's been compressed for quite a while we'd give it a wash and tumble dry to loft the down back up again. Kind regards, Harry.
@@trekitt I'm a heavy sweater and most of my 'blown' synthetic jackets are now clumpy as they need washing say every third trip. The sheet style synthetic jackets I own are fine. Nevertheless, I've gone back to fleece. Love my rab nexus jacket and tops. Love your reviews, by the way 👍
It depends on your activity; the warmest synthetic jacket we stock is most likely the Arc'teryx Kappa or Fjallraven Yupik Parka, but these are both for static/extremely low intensity activities.
Saying synthetic downing is much heavier for its weight is misleading, as "much" suggests a quantifiable amount, but in reality this weight difference could be offset by whether you've had a pee or not. Feather down is also a nightmare to clean, and you risk ruining your jacket every wash, that could take many, intensive hours to wash. Synthetic is so easy.
We love Merino Wool baselayers and have tried stocking Merino Wool midlayers/outer layers before, however they are a little heavy and expensive. In most cases down/synthetic insulation is superior. Kind regards, Harry.
Most brands we stock abide by RDS: icea.bio/en/certifications/non-food/biological-and-sustainable-textile-products/responsible-down-standard/#:~:text=Responsible%20Down%20Standard%20(RDS)%2C,and%20criteria%20of%20animal%20welfare.
@@trekitt It was a bit out of context! Steve is specifically talking about his experiences with down on multiday alpine projects, whereby the risk of it becoming wet and useless outweigh the small weight and long term durability benefits.
What a great video! Straight to the point with no fancy intros or useless filler. Thanks!
Lol, I see what you did there.
@@unclerojelio6320 I didn't do it on purpose, but now that you point it out, it is pretty funny. :)
Thanks for watching and we're glad you like our content. Good joke by the way!!
Use both for different occasions. When you are on hiking or do some serious physical activities, wear synthetic jacket. When you are in the camp or just go around town by car/bus, wear the down one.
Or....I have a down vest I wear under my synthetic jacket. Both are about medium weight.
THANK YOU! Watched about 15 videos on down vs. synth and wanted to know how down handles as an active insulation. I need a vest to wear under my shell jacket - I was worried about down getting wet from my sweat and loosing its warmth. You were the first to even mention this, so thank you again. I'll get a synthetic based on your video.
How was it? Did you like it?
I have 3 down vests & 4 synthetic vests. One being a Columbia Omni Heat (not sure if it's considered synthetic). I LOVE the feel & look of down although feathers can come out after a while. And down vests are very soft, warm & comfortable. I have 2 Tommy Hilfiger Synthetic vests which are actually very warm, a North Face vest (not so warm and quite skinny) and the Columbia Omni Heat which is pretty warm as well!! I say.. GET BOTH!!!
How have the synthetic down lasted are they still warm, I heard that after a few years it breaks down and starts to be not as warm
My synthetic Northface vest started fading in color so I got rid of it. The Columbia Omni heat is still in great condition 4+ yrs later! All the Eddie Bauer down vests are still in great condition! I’d say they are both great
I have a Rab down jacket and it's brilliant so light to wear and keeps you very warm 👍
Gotta love a bit of Rab!
You are informed, logic and non superfluous. If I were a beginner this would be bliss and if I am not this would be gratifying at any rate. Please make more videos of this concise quality!
Thank you for the clear, concise and informative video!
You're very welcome!
Great video Hannah, lovely pace and narrative. Really helpful
Glad it was helpful! I'll pass your comments onto Hannah. Paul
I’m going to buy a winter jacket today for hiking. Appreciate the info. Still haven’t decided what will work best for me unfortunately. I live I KY, USA and want to use it around the Appalachian Mountains and on the AT in the future. Maybe I should just buy both lol. Heavy hit to the wallet! Great video!! Enjoyed 🙌🏻
Jeremiah Stringer Hikes I would definitely get a synthetic puffer if you want it for hiking. It’s going to be much better at drying out if you sweat heavily into it, and with strenuous activity into a puffy coat, you are going to sweat into it.
Especially in Kentucky where it doesn’t get too cold.
@@gregkosinski2303 Thank you so much for responding!! I plan to use it just while stationary like when I am sitting around camp after hiking all day
If it stands a chance of getting wet then synthetic. If dry but freezing down everytime.
Fair point, but with the advent of modern "hydrophobic" down the lines are becoming more blurred. Thanks for watching.
Downside of synthetic if it's dry & freezing is tiny versus the risk if down becoming useless if it happens to rain.
After many years of hiking I am done with down insulation. My go-to is Apex Shield. Verry happy with it. Lightweight, durable, easy to wash and keeps you even warm when wet.
It's good that you've found a product that works for you, thanks for watching.
Thank you very much for sharing. I just bought my first 3M THinsulate thin, light, worm synthetic insulation VERY VERY VERY WORM 650-800
What have worms got to do with this?
albion1949 lmao
Personally, I prefer synthetic. Down is too hot not warm for activities. Plus, getting wet when you sweat defeating it's warmth purpose. Synthetic is a very good balance.. active and static...warm when u sweat or don't... better for layering...as well
Makes sense if I go bikepacking in UK, Spring to Autumn, even for 1 to 3 days then. Wish it could pack small and light like down, but I guess cons of down in this climate outweights the prons, when you got your experience ruined in the middle of nowhere...
Exactly the information I was looking for, thank you! Need a vest for several days long treks in the mountains and if it's gonna be the only puffy I'm taking with me, it should probably be a synthetic.
Great video, lot of good usable information 👍🏻👍🏻🇳🇴
Very good presentation, good information and easy to understand 🔥💯
Thanks very much!
Best explanation I’ve seen. Well done 👊🏻
Glad it was helpful!
Nothing will beat an oil skin, canvas or leather waxed outer with merino gaberdine wool felt lining a down inner. It might be expensive but if you are talking about best quality there is no question.
Good video about the various plastics versus natural though.
As the old saying goes, people who die in the woods wear cotton, people who visit the woods wear synthetics but people who live in the woods wear wool.
Thanks for watching
👍 Now that is an interesting observation.
I tend to gravitate towards the 'Woods Dweller', having relied on and trusted Wool for many years now.
I have a Down 'Puffy' that is very nice .. however, at any hint of rain, it skulks in the cupboard, refusing to come out to be replaced by Wool and Fleece 😊.
Lightweight '100% Lambs Wool' Pullovers (Woolworths Brand) and the trusty 100% Wool Genuine British 'Woolly Pully' have served me well for years. Throw in a Woollen Top Coat (New York Mafiosi Style) bought for a song at a bargain store and Bob's your Uncle.
Actually, Wool and Synthetic Fleece make for a very good Combo .. Down too (dry cold) .. but you're 100% correct. For long term hard core, Wool is it!
You should have been a Blue Peter presenter!
Great video!
Don't tempt her David, we really like having Hannah on our team! Paul.
Great reviews on both types of jackets. I have a synthetic jacket, as that’s all I could afford at the time of purchase, but it’s been a faithful old price of kit in the 3 years I have owned it.
Incidentally, I was at school with a guy called Phil Power…
I’ll get me coat…
That's a cool name. Did he have a son called Max Power?
@@trekitt You know him too?🤣😉
Great comparison between this two systems👍👍👍 by the way you are looking so beautiful and presentable in this review👌👌👌great job done by you💐💐
Excellent review - thank you.
For casual use like walking from the parking lot to the grocery store, it doesn't matter what you choose.
Then only one thing to consider, which one looks best for earning those style points!
Very good presentation, we'll done.
Good comparison, to add to this synthetic options of course keep getting better and better at matching the pros of down.
Can you do a video showing the wash and re-proofing process? I keep meaning to re-proof my Atom LT...
great video! super informative.
Hi again, thank you for taking the time to respond. I am looking for something as breathable as possible but not weather resistant but proof, it is very important to me that I stay dry. I won’t be climbing any mountains but at the same time I love walking in all kinds of weather as well as to and fro work. Cheers
Thanks for the extra information! Are you looking for an insulated jacket or a hardshell? Essentially, the best way to manage your breathability is to wear layers rather than an insulated jacket which is also waterproof such as the Rab Valiance; this allows you to remove layers once you warm up rather than overheating, or add layers if the temperature changes and you begin to feel cold. If you wore a breathable baselayer such as an Icebreaker, then a grid fleece such as the Arc'teryx Delta (only if you required extra warmth) then a hardshell such as the Mountain Equipment Firefox Axel, you'd have some of the most breathable layers that will also keep you dry. Everyone works differently and no one will wear the same layers, so even though I've recommended three layers, you don't have to wear them all at the same time if it's not cold enough or if the rain dies down, alternatively you may require warmer layers. I'll pop the correct links below:
Icebreaker Baselayer: www.trekitt.co.uk/36496/products/icebreaker-mens-oasis-ls-crewe-gritstone.aspx
Arc'teryx Fleece: www.trekitt.co.uk/34937/products/arcteryx-mens-delta-lt-jacket-nocturne.aspx
M.E Hardshell: www.trekitt.co.uk/36186/products/mountain-equipment-mens-firefox-axel-waterproof-jacket-kiwi.aspx
Get a Synthetic insulated 3-season jacket ( 2oz/67g fill ) + a light rain coat to put on top in medium/heavy rain.
Quick question!
My north face nuptse can back away into a stow bag, leaving the coat in a stow bag makes me wonder if it will leave some of the down to clump in certain areas. Is this true? Is there anything cons of packing a 700 fill down jacket into a stow bag?
There is not a problem with stuffing any down jacket into a stuff bag, provided it's only for short periods of time. For instance, in your pack when hiking, or when travelling. But the jacket should never be stored for long periods in a compressed state as this will certainly reduce the loft. Paul.
It depends on using what kinds of Down insulated for the jacket, if using whitegoose hi count of down mixed with feather, would be best. It is warm enough, puffy, and easy to handle become an small bag into backpack.
Down jck is much better than synthetic insulation.
Down certainly still has its benefits, although synthetics are gradually catching up. Harry
Given the disastrous effect on the thermal efficiency of down when it gets wet, can you explain why they don't seem to make waterproof down jackets?
The main attraction to a down jacket is that it's super lightweight, packable and offers plenty of warmth; however adding a waterproof membrane to the outer of that jacket would massively increase the pack size and weight; it would also negatively affect the breathability. If you are using a down jacket in wet conditions, it's far more effective to pop a separate waterproof jacket over the top, then when it stops raining, you have the option to take the waterproof off to increase breathability again.
Arceteryx does, for 1000 dollars to start with ;-)
Very useful video, thanks 👍
if you are sure you can be dry choose down (SUNNY, PARTLY CLOUDY). If you are unsure then use synthetic mid layers.
Good advice! Thanks for watching.
Done! Great video! 🙂
I have and use both, weather dependent, with a Montane Superfly XT hard shell. Both have qualities I like therefore it's worthwhile having them.
Great info. I like my down jacket a bunch.🇺🇸
So the down itself isn't waterproof but what about the material it is packed in ?
Great video!! Super helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Can you layer a down jacket underneath a (non-breathable) rain jacket while hiking? Or is the moisture from your sweat enough to make it lose its loft?
You can layer a down jacket under a shell if the weather warrants it, just ensure you aren't wearing too many layers which will cause you to overheat and consequently become wet from the inside due to sweat. Sweat shouldn't affect the loft of the jacket.
Thank you!
very well explained. everything i need to know
You are very welcome!
Down to go ! - - - i get the "cruelty" argument but we eat ducks anyhow , . . . but synthetic takes 100years+ to disintegrate in landfill, compared to feathers . . .
I first saw down garments in the 70's then they were rather y expensive ... 30 years later they got a lot cheaper and quality improved - I have been using one for over 10 years for every day no colds at all would recommend highly
Great video!!!
I just got a fjallraven skogso padded jacket. It has their g-loft supreme, a fancy name for their synthetic insulation. Love the jacket, but will it be ineffective in a few years because of the synthetic insulation? From what I understand it's on the higher end of the spectrum in terms of durability. That said, prior to this video, all my jackets in the past we synthetic, and I never noticed a difference....
No, not at all! Although down jackets do last longer with regular care and maintenance, it's not uncommon for synthetically insulated jackets to last up to 10 years of regular use. Kind regards, Harry.
@@trekitt Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Excellent video 👏
Thank you.
Has anyone heard of Thermore Eco-down?? Is it any good? I can't find any comparisons of it with Primaloft etc. The company appears to have been around a while!? Cheers, Cam from NZ :)
Looks interesting! Can't say we have any direct experience with it, but the credentials do look promising for a synthetic insulation. One to keep an eye on.
If I need a jacket for traveling in Europe ,Japan and soeul winter. Will you recommend down or synthetic jacket?
A synthetic jacket will be easier to take care of whilst travelling and isn't so affected by rain if you get caught out.
@@trekitt is both type of jackets provide similar amount of warmth?
@@liewpg2266 High quality down typically provides more warmth for its weight than synthetic, but it's getting close these days.
@@trekitt so synthetic jacket, if caught in rain or snow , will still provide warmth?
@@trekitt and if going to places with temperature around -10 to 2 degrees Celsius, synthetic jacket able to provide warmth?
Obviously down is better but more expensive.
My price comprise is an 80% goose 20% duck.
Buy in the summer as winter gear prices are much lower also buy last year's stock that is another way of saving dosh.
Good advice! Thanks for watching.
What would be the best jacket for the e-bike in winter of UK, the driest East Anglia region? I was testing down jacket Mountain Equipment Trango with polyamid outer layer and it felt light and comfortable for e-bike rides in winter. With e-bike the cold is a problem because I do not work hard enough to generate heat but also sweating is not a problem.
What type of jacket are you looking for? An insulated jacket/softshell/hardshell? A Mountain Equipment Kinesis might be worth a look if you're after something lightly insulated but with plenty of breathability.
@@trekitt Hi, thank you for reply. I am looking for insulated jacket because it should be winter jacket. I would prefer more of softshell because on bicycle I need to bend over to riding position. It does not need to be full waterproof, just water resistant. The Kinesis model looks good with polyamide outer layer. Now I cannot decide which one to buy ?
I bought the Mountain Equipment Trango down jacket with water resistance on the Black Friday. I have just tested this jacket on 50 km route at temperature 5C and with very heavy fog. On the distance of 20 m there was no visibility, it was like a small rain. I was dry and warm. This jacket is simply perfect for e-bike, very light and warm but breathable enough. It has lots of pockets 7 in total which are very useful when riding on e-bike.
Great video,
Question, how is wool insulation compared to the two that you presented?
Sincerely
We love wool as a baselayer, but as an outer layer it tends to be heavy, quite expensive and doesn't pack down particularly small. It does however have great temperature-regulation, anti-odour properties and retains most of its warmth when wet, so it just depends what you're using the garment for. Kind regards, Harry.
Good information👍
Not quite clear on your definition of fill power. I have an 800FP Rab jacket. According to my understanding of your equation, it has about a football field’s volume of down. Can you please explain again. Thanks.
Down is rated according to fill power (the loft quality). Fill power is an internationally recognised measurement of how well down will “loft”. Loft describes how “fluffy” the insulation is, the “fluffier” down is the more space it can occupy and the more warm air it can trap to keep you warm. It is represented by the number of cubic inches one ounce of down will occupy (e.g. if one ounce of down takes up a volume of 650 cubic inches it is given a 650 fill power rating). The quality of down is directly related to its fill power rating. Higher quality down has a higher fill power and is much loftier than down of a lower quality. This means you'd require fewer ounces of down to create the same level of warmth. The higher the fill power the better the down will insulate, because there is less chance of cold spots forming.
Trekitt Mountain Sports
Thank you. I think I’ve got it now.
A couple things I like about down. It is not plastic made from petroleum. And I have pieces I have had for many years. It seems to have a larger temperature range. Then again I live in the dry US mountain west.
Those are good reasons to love down, but here in the soggy old UK, synthetics do perform very well. Paul.
The amount of oil required to make a synthetic jacket is tiny relative to other uses and is actually an excellent use for it. Compare outdoor clothing to aviation and it would be millions:one in terms of use.
Good point. I have also read that every time you wash your fleece you send micro-plastics into the water. Again possibly a minor amount compared to other plastic issues. But we have to all do our part. Especially outdoors people.
@@granthaller9544 Hi Grant - haha we sound very similar! I too was concerned about microplastics from fleeces etc & emailed a number of suppliers (including Paramo & Arc'teryx) to ask them about it. The response was that shedding only tends to be an issue with lower qualty fleece, the type where you can visibly see the fibres, whereas technical fleece such as Polartec powergrid is much more durable & it does not occur. I tested this by using a microfibre catcher in my wash for several months & was delighted to find that my outdoor clothing didn't shed. Hope this helps and best of luck in the outdoors.
@@projectshoe Very reassuring! Thanks for your research! I still prefer wool, but will not feel so bad about my fleece.
Regarding the price - the high-quality Primaloft is quite expensive as well. For example, the Montane Icarus jacket is similar price-wise to the Rab Microlight alpine one.
That is true, PrimaLoft is one of the more expensive options, but down simply requires more effort to collect, wash, sterilise, sort, etc, so it'll most likely always be a little more pricey. Harry
@@trekitt how good of an insulator is Primaloft compared to down?
@@nischaljimee2192 It's pretty similar in warmth to weight, but doesn't pack down as small and doesn't last as long as high quality down.
Lol, i love that she says let's start from the beginning. Not sure where else one would start.
But very informational thanks
Star wars didn't
6:49 ~How long will your average synthetic jacket last before it needs to be replaced? Kind regards.
Unfortunately it's pretty difficult to give a timescale as it depends where you are in the world, whether you use a heavy pack, how often it gets used, which layers you have over the top (if any), etc. Some synthetics may last a year or two in the hands of a mountain guide, some others may last 10 years and above with someone who largely uses it on the weekends for general walking. Sorry that's not more specific, but be assured the synthetically insulated jackets we stock are designed to take some abuse! Kind regards, Harry.
I don’t get why manufacturers don’t just build in a waterproof shell layer on top of the down. That would make it warm and waterproof? Seems like an obvious solution
Because generally the aim of a down jacket is to offer high amounts of warmth with a low weight and a small pack size. Adding a waterproof shell drastically increases the weight, the cost, the packsize and reduces breathability. If you're wearing the jacket on a cold, dry, crisp day, the waterproof shell would be wasted. This is why manufacturers (and retailers like us) recommend you layer clothing rather than have it all in one, therefore you can adapt it to your environment. Kind regards, Harry.
They do have ski gears that have a waterproof layers on top
of down.
I like the 3 in 1 idea, where a shell can be attached and removed from a down jacket.
Because waterproof shells don't necessarily keep you dry.
interesting, a down cleaner. The soap i use for any outdoor gear, synthetic, wool, fleece and down jackets, sleeping bag and the like is '''' SUNGLIGHT '''' Soap, a classic soap here in Aotearoa ( although you could find alternatives worldwide.) All it is really just a normal soap with low PH. Never had issues with using that bar soap method. Also it was originally designed to be used on dishes, clothes AND skin. Very neutral soap. I naturally dry all my freshly washed Down gear, booties, sleeping bags, jackets,gilets etc all get thoroughly hand wringed out ( be gentle but firm - ish) then dry in cool place for a few days to a week if it is rainy - ish outside in a high airflow area (garage, attic etc) throw them on a clothes line ( fence, window sill, just somewhere to get vertical for the gear to dry) in the sun, flip over every few hours ( bring in or out when sun isn't home) and every toss turn every now and then, gently knead by hand the clumps. Once realitive-ish dry, get a tennis ball and lay item on a flat surface and just bounce or chuck the ball at the down item, breaks the clumps.
Chur bro. gunna try the dishwash. how much sunlight would you use on say a down sleeping bag?
@@carlskipper6701 it is the sunlight bar soap my bro, not the liquid stuff, the bars they come ina 4 pack, just a small shaving will do
@@RasDoesBushcraftBackcountry great tip chur my bro.
Pure soap is a good alternative to "technical cleaners" Thanks for watching.
BTW: Have you any comparing tests between synthetic and down filled jackets in rain and wet condition?
I'm afraid we don't personally have any tests comparing the two. Outdoor Research has a good blog with a bit more info in which may be useful though; I'll pop a link below. Kind regards, Harry.
www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/article/down-vs.-synthetic-whats-the-difference-between-down-and-synthetic-insulati
Northface thermal ball is a great product
Isn't that primaloft sawn into a square?
@@JoeZUGOOLA "The North Face™ developed a partnership with PrimaLoft® to offer a new synthetic alternative to down. ThermoBall™ is a revolution in insulation technology. Unlike traditional, continuous-filament synthetic insulations, the small round PrimaLoft® synthetic fiber clusters closely to mimic down clusters; trapping heat within small air pockets to retain warmth."
What should i wear when i almost motionless near the sea while fishing?
Synthetic will be more suitable for this.
How about Eddie Bauer down jackets? Are they good quality?
I'm afraid we haven't got any experience with them, so we wouldn't be able to comment on their quality from first-hand use. Kind regards, Harry.
I just bought a down jacket from superdry, 1 day old, feathers are already coming out, is this normal?
It's normal for feathers to poke their way through eventually; maybe not on the first day though. The key is to not pull them out - try to push them back in. Harry
Allbirds... wool socks .... wool coats.... will try wool as easier to maneuver in
Fair point, wool is a good insulator, but can be a bit heavy. Thanks for watching.
Should I buy L instead of M down if I planned wear under some other jacket?
Each brand has their own idea of what a medium/large is, so the only way to know for sure is to try both on with the layers you're expecting to wear. The only time we'd recommend sizing up is if you're purchasing the jacket as either a belay piece or when throwing it over all your other layers when stationary. Kind regards, Harry.
Which one suitable for hiking during cold and raining weather?
In wet weather you're better off with a synthetic as they'll still maintain their warmth if they happen to get wet. Kind regards, Harry.
Good descriptively
Very good 🥂thanks
Yr red jacket looks great, which brand is it?
It's the Montane Phoenix Jacket; the same jacket on the right hand side of the table but in Tibetan. www.trekitt.co.uk/35991/products/montane-womens-phoenix-jacket-tibetan.aspx
Its a synthetic one
Thanks so much; great video. :-)
Glad it was helpful!
thenx
You're welcome. Harry
Good info, but this is well known and can be found on any website. In the VIDEO you are supposed to show things. For example, you say : "much heavier", "more volume".... you could have demonstrated those things by packing and weighting those jackets you have, so we can see the difference. One other point. If you are wearing a shell over midlayer, down might get compressed too much and lose its efficacy.
Hi V8, we provide these videos for those who might prefer a visual explanation over a written one, making it hopefully easier to digest. The main reason we didn't pack down/weigh the jackets in the video is that there is no fair comparison. Each jacket uses difference face fabrics, zips, pockets etc which all contribute to the overall weight. That being said, we'll have a think how we can add more fair visual demonstrations for future videos. Kind regards.
Thanks I sure like the visual explanation. It does in easier
Very nice video! Unfortunately there are no "humane" way to obtain down whatever the companies say, how can it be possible to obtain those little feathers from an alive animal and not causing a horrible suffering 😭🦆
In most cases, the down is a bi-product of the meat industry, so the birds are put down before the down is collected. Brands such as Mountain Equipment take it a step further and ensure the down isn't collected from birds which have been live plucked or force fed and have been raised in good conditions. I'll pop a link below if you wanted to have a read. Kind regards, Harry.
www.thedowncodex.co.uk/the-down-codex/
So synthetic it is then, until they start making hemp insulation.
Synthetic is warmer than hemp in my experience
I've never tried putting tennis balls in the dryer with my down's. What are the advantages does it give it a better loft ?
The tennis balls bounce around and help to loft the jacket back up, therefore reducing the chance of the down clumping.
They do have hybrid jackets now. I believe that every down piece should contain 20-25% synthetic in problem areas like the back, hood, shoulders and arms. Also it would speed drying and be a fail safe in case of wetness
very helpful
Glad to be of service, thanks for watching.
Hi and tank’s for a very great video! But, where I live many people love and live outdoor live and hiking and cross country skiing often includes camp fires. As kids we where always told by our parents to keep away from fire in nylon puffer jackets. At that time, most of them where polyester filled. They where said to explode in fire (most to scare us kids I suppose).
Is there any differens from fire safety aspekt between down filled and synthetic filled jackets?
Any tests made? Think I have seen some scene on TV once with a puffer jacket burning furiously, don’t know of it was down or synthetic filled.
Both nylon and polyester fabrics are flammable, but not so much that they'd explode; the melting of the fabrics is what typically causes burns. Down can also catch fire but won't melt. So, going back to your original question, there won't be much difference between most down and synthetically insulated jackets as they both use nylon/polyester fabrics, the only exception to this are jackets which use polycotton fabrics such as Fjallraven. Kind regards, Harry.
@@trekitt thank you for answer! I have understood that they don’t ”explode”, thats some bad stories circulating. Was just wondering if there are differences between synthetic and down filling. The shell ar mostly the same as you said, nylon or polyester. Havn’t seen any comparing tests. Best Regards
which is BETTER
Down. Synthetic. Neither. Both? It depends!
Lucky I use my Canada goose Borden bomber every winter 😁👍👌
Is it true that snythetics lose their warmth over the period of years ?
It is true, synthetic insulation will lose some of its thermal efficiency (heat-trapping capabilities) over time, and this tends to happen quicker with synthetic compared to down insulation. (There are many different types of synthetic insulation and some are more durable than others, which is something to take into account). Don't worry though, we are not saying that in a couple of years time you will need to replace your jacket, it takes a good few years of heavy use before you will even notice the difference. As long as you aren't storing your jackets compressed for long periods of time or washing and drying it too much then you'll be fine (these rules apply to both types of insulation).
@@trekitt ahh cheers. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
Superfoodtown Been wearing the same jacket for like 2 years and it went from resisting -30c to like -10c :P
@@hazardous458 Ive hiked for years, year around and ive never experienced like -10c, just -10c. . How cold is like -10?
Hi, what a great straight forward simple to follow video. I was a north face nut at on point, while I found their products very warm I found that they did not breath very well and absolutely useless in damp or wet weather. I’m not looking for products that can breathe and keep me bone dry. Any suggestions? Cheers
Hi Dan, we just need to clarify what you mean in your last sentence; are you looking for a highly breathable and weather resistant insulation piece? If so, what will you be getting up to in the jacket activity wise?
Thank you so much
Well done. You can learn anything on RUclips.
Which one do you like best?
It depends! Synthetic insulation is great for stop-start activities or where stationary for extended periods of time, down is great for faster moving activities as it tends to be more breathable. Synthetic is more versatile as it can be worn in wet weather, down is better for cold, dry conditions or when weight and pack size is a priority. It all comes down to which fits your lifestyle. Kind regards, Harry.
@@trekitt haha it seems like you still don't know which is best. There's a perfect layer jacket system, personally I don't think Down is that good, synthetic is more versatile like you said.
I'm storing my down jacket in a compressed bag. Is it a bad thing?
We wouldn't recommend it. Store it in the open to allow it to loft fully, therefore allowing it to trap more air and keep you warmer when you put it on. If it's been compressed for quite a while we'd give it a wash and tumble dry to loft the down back up again. Kind regards, Harry.
@@trekitt Thank you for the replied.
You can pack it compressed just fine, but for long term storage you should take it out of the bag and allow it to loft.
Avoid both if you need to regularly wash them.
I'd say washing synthetic is no harder than washing most garments.
@@trekitt I'm a heavy sweater and most of my 'blown' synthetic jackets are now clumpy as they need washing say every third trip. The sheet style synthetic jackets I own are fine. Nevertheless, I've gone back to fleece. Love my rab nexus jacket and tops. Love your reviews, by the way 👍
Thanks for the video! Just one question: What's the warmest synthetic jacket for you? Thanks!
It depends on your activity; the warmest synthetic jacket we stock is most likely the Arc'teryx Kappa or Fjallraven Yupik Parka, but these are both for static/extremely low intensity activities.
@@trekitt 250gr is the thicker jacket i've seen, thanks!
Arc'teryx Dually Belay Parka.
👍
Oi bruvver nice vid
Saying synthetic downing is much heavier for its weight is misleading, as "much" suggests a quantifiable amount, but in reality this weight difference could be offset by whether you've had a pee or not. Feather down is also a nightmare to clean, and you risk ruining your jacket every wash, that could take many, intensive hours to wash. Synthetic is so easy.
Lol
Let's just say synthetic is a lot better for the ducks and geese...
Good point, thanks for watching.
any thoughts on merino insulation?
We love Merino Wool baselayers and have tried stocking Merino Wool midlayers/outer layers before, however they are a little heavy and expensive. In most cases down/synthetic insulation is superior. Kind regards, Harry.
Washing down is a bust. None of the down cleaners will avoid decreased loft through oil lost from the down.
Are the Chinese (who make most of these jackets) aware of and abiding by the ethics of down collection I wonder?
Most brands we stock abide by RDS: icea.bio/en/certifications/non-food/biological-and-sustainable-textile-products/responsible-down-standard/#:~:text=Responsible%20Down%20Standard%20(RDS)%2C,and%20criteria%20of%20animal%20welfare.
Primaloft Gold the best insulting material
Bruh just use asbestos
Climashield Prism is better hence why Arc'teryx use it in the Dually.
swiss wool and merino are the winners :P
Wows I’m in love
She's cute and done a great job there !
Good English
Should hope so but how many
other languages does she speak.
Naught
@@HarryKingKelowna Pity into today's
world.
@@111-k4d9m 🍎🍒🥭🍆🥥🍑🥭🍒🥭🥔🥭🥝🍓🥝🥔🍎🥔🍎🍒🥭🍒🥭🥔🍎🍑🍎🍒🍇🥔🍇🍇🍓🍇🍍🥭🥔🥭🥭🍆🍅🍅🍆🍅🍆🍅🍒🍅🍓🍇🥔🥔🥭🍑🍎🍎🍌
@@HarryKingKelowna Beautiful fruit.
"I consider down a great one night stand but a poor long term relationship" (Steve House 2018)
Interesting quote, but I definitely see both as 'long term relationships' in their own way.
@@trekitt It was a bit out of context! Steve is specifically talking about his experiences with down on multiday alpine projects, whereby the risk of it becoming wet and useless outweigh the small weight and long term durability benefits.
Surprise, isn’t as great as I thought
Thanks for watching.