How to Escape Lorelei's Game Ending Softlock
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- In the Gen 1 Pokemon games, it's possible to set up a cruel softlock. But could there perhaps be a way to get out of it...?
Crystal's video: • Pokemon R/B/Y - How to...
Gen 1 Accuracy and 1/256 Glitch explanation: bulbapedia.bul...
Let's Play Channel: / @pikaspreyblue
Twitter: / pikasprey
Thanks to my friend Trevor for helping go over all of the math in this video with me :3 (Even though he doesn't even like Pokemon...)
================================
Some music from this video was made by some other RUclips users. Check them out here:
(8-Bit end card music) Bulby: / mrbulbamike
Kunning Fox: / kamikadze333666
Apollo Justice arrangements were made by me.
This was supposed to come out weeks ago, and was meant to hold you all over until the next big video.
So much for that. (◕ ‿ ◕✿ )
Pikasprey Yellow Couldn't you use a TAS program to get the right frame for the moves to miss 20 times in a row? Therefore successfully pulling this off and being able to record it.
Pikasprey Yellow omfg, your humor is fucking on spot! i love you!
Pikasprey Yellow Oh and it's not only moves, but items too. The master ball has a 100% catch rate. But it's programmed the same way a 100% accuracy move is. So your master ball can fail 1/256 times.
That depends on if there is a "right frame" for it to miss.
Pikasprey Yel5bmnknmnbmnmmbnnbnmbnbmbnmb m. pop99th 98 99th 99999low
Imagine getting Rage to miss 19 times in a row and then it hits the 20th time
sounds like a major oof.
Mc *F*
I would literally start crying
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
F
Dewgong! I've come to bargain!
lol, I did not know that primape was the sorcerer supreme.
Up you go.
this comment is fucking gold.
oh my fucking god. I laughed so hard from this.
This should be pinned lmfao 🤣🤣
I live for insane calculations like these. That fact that there's even the most minuscule of chances to escape this fascinates me.
Me too!
I was gonna thumb this up, but it's at the max value of 255, so I need it to stay there so that Rage will miss. :^)
The calculation is based on the assumption of truly random numbers, though. Exploiting flaws in the RNG (which, admittedly, is quite hard to do when running the game on an unmodified physical game boy) would allow you to get out of this with nowhere near a quindecillion attempts.
@@neilburgin8893 How would you do that?
@@beta511ee45 years late but RNG in older games is usually based on a global timer. Frame perfectly selecting Rage on a frame that rolls the correct RNG value will make it miss. Do that 20 times in a row and boom you escaped. Not viable for humans at all, but using with some TAS tools you could easily be able to achieve that without any kind of game modification
Fun fact: you're more likely to win the Powerball jackpot 5 times in a row than miss 20 Rages in a row.
Absolute nonsense.
@@vaddix9980
~1 in 10^42 Powerball 5 times in a row
~1 in 10^49 Miss rage 20 times in a row
Do your math, hun
hun is wild😭 the math is crazy tho
*Someone's voice: Don't run away!*
Obviously that voice is inside Red's head as his sanity slowly crumbles. It's all he has now.
Eventually, Red stopped thinking.
@@TheMentisGroup holy moly is that a mf jojo refrence?
1 in 68 quindecellion chance.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE.
a very small chance, smaller than a Planck in meters length.
Planck is the smallest thing in the universe by the way
Why is this me when I ask a girl out
@@applesauce4748 why did you have to preemptively steal my joke :(
whats a quindecillion
multiply the average time per rage used with 68 quindecillion and you get how much time you'd need on average to get 20 misses
To anyone who still doesn't understand how unlikely it is to miss Rage 20 times in a row:
The odds of winning the Powerball lottery are about 1 in 292 million. That's about 0.0000003%.
The odds of winning the Powerball lottery 5 times in a row is about 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000469%.
The odds of winning the Powerball lottery 5 times in a row are still about a million times greater than missing Rage 20 times in a row.
and a lot more beneficial
I wonder what the actual percentage is.
Actually, that "Rage misses every time" quirk only activates if the following conditions are met:
1. Rage has already been activated (and you can't change moves or use items, etc)
2. An evasion buff/debuff is in effect (like Double Team)
3. Rage misses due to the modified evasion check
Otherwise, if Rage misses, it has no effect on the accuracy of subsequent Rage moves. Seeing as how Dewgong will never use an evasion move in this battle, this quirk has no effect on the scenario.
An orgy of 0s
Sounds accurate.
Despite all my rage, I'm still just primeape on a stage.
underrated
Underrated
UNderrated
UNDerrated
UNDErrated
I have never seen such determination and logic put into figuring out how to LOSE a battle. Kudos to you sir.
Losing the battle wouldn't be so bad. But here, even losing is impossible...
Losing the battle was only half the battle... Wait?
it is really impossible to win as it will just go on until someone quits and computers will never quit
The hardest part of becoming a programmer is looking back on childhood games like this and learning the abysmal AI behind what had been your greatest achievements.
Seems like GameFreak never learned a thing from Gen 1 lmao
Most games from this era are bug/glitch ridden nightmares. Pokemon just happens to be more obvious about it.
@@ianfinrir8724paper mario 64 comes to mind, being somewhat stable on the surface only to get drop kicked by glitch hunters who found an ungodly number of sequence breaks
@@Mewtwo_150 You can (and should) criticize GameFreak, but their programming is LEAGUES better now. I mean, it should be, considering they aren't a company near bankruptcy like they were while making Gen 1, but still. I'd argue Gen 1 is infamous for being a coding mess BECAUSE all the other games have good programming for the most part.
I'm imagining Lorelei and Red trying to make conversation while this endless battle is going on.
"so... who's the toughest challenger you've faced so far?"
"actually, this kid Blue just came by and swept my team with a Venusaur-“
"WHAT"
@@thorgidogofthunderRed :but i picked the frog one
I guess you could say that method would be quite *rage* inducing.
XmodxgodX please stop.
Talk about needing anger management...
i think i'll give you guys a rest on the puns.
*gets on drums* Baton pass~
NO
having a pretty much impossibly small chance is definitely worse than it being actually impossible. it's like a shimmer of dream and hope being crushed by the terrible reality of probability.
In Yellow Version back when I was a kid my haunter was frozen from Lorelei I beat Bruno but only had two pokemon left had no healing items and when I went to Agitha I got her down to her last pokemon (gengar) with my non-frozen pokemon. Gengar took that one out leaving me with my frozen haunter. Gengar kept spamming hypnosis but because my haunter was frozen it would never work (in gen 1 frozen pokemon would not thaw out naturally) so I was stuck in an endless loop.
Riperoo younger you
riperoo?
darkwiz428 he's saying RIP
Speaking of haunters, I actually caught a shiny Gastly in Pokemon Platinum a few weeks ago. It was the first shiny I encountered in one of the Gen 4 games (not including the Gyarados from G/S/C/HG/SS).
I still haven't beat Pokemon Red yet though....
Nobody counts the Lake of Rage Red Gyarados. But my first one was a rattata in Crystal
What you do when you have to return a rented copy of the game
that is just plain evil
Srihari krishna gonna do it
@Oh yeah yeah Imagine doing this in the 90s, without internet.
Just keep it instead
Open the cartridge and change the circuit board thing from another game, that's how we did it when we wanted to keep rented n64 games
I wanna see someone create a room filled with computers all soft resetting at max speed, programmed to do this stunt
That would be a world record
"The most useless luck achievement on history"
Depending on how it's set up, it might either be impossible or exceedingly easy to make it happen.
The pokemon games aren't truly random, rather the numbers are generated based on the game clock. So if the setup will always load and perform the same actions, it will NEVER get through the fight.
On the other hand, given enough time, you could probably calculate a frame perfect manip that will generate 20 misses in a row. It would be funny to watch the computer bonk into walls, turn around and walk in silly patterns before talking to Lorelei at the exactly right moment and missing 20 straight rages, but it could possibly happen.
TAS
@ooOmegAaa u can run then parallelly with few computers and enough RAM. To sum up, u just need to cheat to miss lol
Computers (or operators of course) could use luck manipulation by finding the exact frames to input for the 20 misses. By yourself though you may as well just savestate each time.
@ooOmegAaa not computers, but programs. you forget a compyuter can have more than one process running at a time. if each of those computers run 100 emulators then the result would happen on average within 1 year
Trapped in a room with Lorelei? Thats seems not bad.
I GET It-
Red Vanderbilt Dont do this to the internet
Hello, Nurse!
I mean if you're character waits there for 8 years...
@@imaginaryboy2000 Christ
If my math holds up, assuming 5 second turns and ignoring the time between a failed attempt and starting a new one, the average person would need in excess of 10^31 years to escape this softlock. Now, the problem with that is that this is about 1000 times longer than the time required for every star in every galaxy in the universe to fall into their central supermassive black holes. Indeed, the only stars left in the universe at that point would be stray brown dwarves. The variance here is insane as well, so even the smallest stroke of "bad" luck could have even the black holes begin to decay while you await your escape. Protons themselves will be falling apart, and yet that Dewgong will remain staring, taunting your soul through the eons with the promise of eventual escape.
I think I'd rather just get stuck on Cinnabar Island thanks
Actualy, nothing much is happening at the cetner of the galaxy atm. All the stars in the region are in mostly stable orbits, and exept of the occesional 'snack', the central black hole is not up to anything.
This might change when we collide with Andromeda though.
I'm not actualy sure that this amount of time is enough for supermassive black holes to evaporate though... that amount if time is truely stupidly long.
Marik Zilberman Actually, when Andromeda inevitably collides with our milky way, the chances of any celestial object (including earth) essential to our lives colliding with something in Andromeda is... _astronomically_ low.
(I'm so sorry for that terrible pun)
lol!
Omar Hegazy that’s not the point. The point is, that statistically you will need that much time.
Tries to escape the trap
Rage lands on the last PP point
Congratulations, you've learned Rage!
id just break the system
*learns Rage; this move has 100% accuracy with no Gen1 miss chance*
pikasprey
noun
1) a person who derives sexual gratification from their own pain or humiliation.
"the roles of pikasprey and mistress"
2) (in general use) a person who enjoys an activity that appears to be painful or tedious.
"what kind of pikasprey would take part in such an experiment?"
3) A spray for pikachus
I'm like number 255, so I'm sorry to say that in my case, your joke kinda missed the mark.
lol
Kinda sadistic?
@@mushroomhead3619 So, in conclusion, a Pikachu that likes to hurt itself because it simply likes too feel a potion burn his skin at it heals
I love how this guy just sounds like he hates his life in all these videos by torturing himself with pointless traps and grinding XD
there has to be one kid on this earth who got their first pokemon game, and missed tackle the first 10 times they used it
There was some speed runner who got 2 Gen 1 Misses [1/256 chance each] with Thrash into 3 Hit Confuse [1/2 chance] and hurt itself in confusion [1/2 chance]. Unlucky or what. Must have been some odds on that happenning at the same time.
Into the trash it would go.
I was that older kid who challenged them to battle with a level 100 Gengar and said "Stop hitting yourself" over and over again as they struggled to death.
That's why most teams ran a Dugtrio endgame. Dig was just too broken against ghosts with his speed.
I think you mean earthquake
"I'm a cool guy. I've got a girlfriend!"
Probably my favorite pre-battle trainer speech of all time.
And for some reason he and his "girl friend" are standing several meters apart acting like they don't know the other one is there XD and she says "I wish my boyfriend was as tough as you!" when he's standing right the f*ck there lmao
@@Bro-cx2jc F to our fallen brother.
shorts are comfortable and easy to wear. your argument is invalid
"Hi! I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear!"
*The laws of the universe mean nothing.* Bow to the Shorts Youngster!
Ahem...but yes, that's my favorite intro personally, has been since the first time I played this silly and fun game.
Coincidentally/incidentally, my favorite (or at least one of, anyway, if not the) defeated quote happens to come from a Youngster as well, as I recall. (Or was it a Bug Catcher? Damn...) "Done like dinner!" It's the stupidest joke. Why do I laugh at it? I just can't help it.
@@plant7371 You're just Shellos, if I say so myself.
"some person"
shows Crystal_
That's not just "some person"
exactly
Dionicio3 King_Of_Skiddos Maybe not "some person" from YOUR perspective, but to me and the VAST majority of people, it's just some absolutely worthless nobody who could literally die and an extreme few people would give a damn at all.
Everyone is technically just "some person".
More people know who he is than this guy.
Shouldn't it be either "a person" or "some people"?
I watched my friend run into a shiny Pidgey in gen 2, kill it, and then he ran into another shiny pidgey directly afterwards. Their were no cheats used. It was the luckiest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. The odds of that happening are sooooooo low.
It's 1 in 4096 so 2 in 8192 not low at all.
@@vaddix9980That's not how probabilty works...
A 1 in X chance event happening twice in a row has a 1 in X^2 chance, not 2 in X.
This means that the chance for two shinies in a row is about 1/67108868, or about a 0.0000015% chance.
@@Adirbal Woosh
@@vaddix9980 You simply stated a wrong probability, there is literally no joke there.
@@Adirbal The joke is you thought O was serious.
Again. Wooosh.
One important question: does the game's RNG actually function in such a way that it can miss 20 times in a row? Depending on how RNG was implemented, it may not be possible due to the game running through a preset list of "random" results, with no possible method of manipulating the RNG to allow for 20 misses in a row.
On the flip hand, if the RNG is manipulated by player input, a player aware of this could intentionally incur a miss every time in a TAS environment.
I feel like you'd still need to prove the RNG allows for 20 misses in a row in the first place before you can definitively say this escape is possible.
I don't know about the RNG of it, but i recall fairly often playing my copy of Red, that I would encounter situations where if i kept using the same move, it would miss consecutively til i used another. Don't know if it can be replicated, or if i'm just unlucky, But i recall getting a game over vs an oddish because all i had left on my charmeleon was rage, and when i kept using it, it kept missing, until i used struggle, and I recall it being the first time i'd ever seen the move myself.
Hello there GameChamp!
Notice me gamechamp senpai!!!!!!
Gen 1, being Gen 1, runs it's RNG based on a global timer that, as far as I can tell, starts when you boot up the game.
Or just have rage with 1 pp and then miss
then you struggle till you die
"The important thing is, I PROVED SOMEONE WRONG ON THE INTERNET!"
why is this so interesting??
kiffe22 it's something we like and his voice is so intresting? Or I don't know
It's because his voice and you also like math in the case of this video!
I know I hate the math clases about the odds, but then I CAME to watch a weird guy talking about the possibility to miss 20 attacks to scape from a ridicolous situation you put yourself into xD
I can actually make it alot easier. Gen 1 RNG is time based, so it would simply be a matter of Waiting the correct number of frames. A TAS could get out of it.
Isnt there also some shit with button inputs
there is some random ****** with button inputs that influences RNG, so you're right.
Hesusio TAS also stands for tool assisted superplay, in situations like that. But then that moves the question to if it's really superplay if you're losing on purpose
Tool Assisted Soft-Lockpicking
There. Happy?
tool asisted stupidity.
It might still be impossible depending on how the game's RNG works. If the RNG can't be manipulated into ever producing 20 misses in a row, then it's still impossible.
Yah. It seems unlikely the game's RNG has a recurrence time long enough to contain 20 256s in a row.
nah, it's possible, the rng of the game factors many things, pressing random buttons on the gameboy probably the change the outcome of some things since an interrupt routine is caused because of it, possibly changing the "randomness".
You can manipulate accuracy, with the correct inputs, you can make moves like Horn Dill hit 100% of the time so I assume doing the opposite is also possible.
Well, technically, since you can wait as long as you need for because of the "regained health", "fast asleep" and "woke up" textboxes, you could theoretically get infinite RNG rolls each time and thus eventually get one where it misses.
Two things:
1. You could set Cinnabar Island as your respawn point, fly to the Indigo Plateau, release flying Pokemon, and once rage eventually misses 20 times in a row and KO’s itself, you’re stuck on Cinnabar. Bet you can’t escape that one.
2. “But the point is, I proved someone wrong on the internet.” Made me laugh out loud.
Can't you just use Tackle for that, or some other weak move? Since the goal is to get stuck on Cinnabar, you don't need to go and use Rage.
You didn’t say to release Pokemon that swim
Actually i think you may be able to fish water Pokemon that could learn the hm surf
But part of the rules are to throw all items away. Plus, rods are optional.
you're overlooking the fact he gets pp back once he dies
Ooh, I have an idea for a better softlock like this, that works against some other trainers as well. Just save in Lorelei's chamber with a frozen Pokémon as the only Pokémon in your party, and make sure to toss out any Full Restores, Full Heals, or Ice Heals before you do. Lorelei's Dewgong will indefinitely spam Rest per usual, and in Gen 1 you'll never unthaw without getting hit by a Fire-type move besides Fire Spin (which it doesn't have any), the opponent using Haze (which it also doesn't have), or using one of the aforementioned items. This also works for instance against Lance's Dragonite (though in that case since it isn't his first Pokémon, you need to bring another Pokémon and have it faint after using the move that takes out the Pokémon right before his Dragonite via recoil damage (burn and poison wouldn't work, since in Gen 1 if a burned or poison Pokémon faints a Pokémon it won't take damage from the status condition)) or even against Pokémon that don't know any damaging moves at all, such as Blue's Abra in the battle with him in Cerulean, or Sabrina's Abra in Yellow.
Sure but you actually can't escape those. So there is no point trying.
This could take till all the stars burn out but theoretically there is a glimmer of hope.
Ah yes, getting help from Gen 1's most evil mechanic to inflict further despair, I like your plan!
Anyone who missed rage 20 times
Buy a lottery ticket.
they will probably accidentally buy two tickets, accidentally eat the other one, scratch the other one, win the jackpot and while they're returning it have a violent fit of diarea crapping out the other ticket, looking at it and noticing that it's another jackpot that was printed accidentally, returning it and the lottery accepting both of them
Just use savestates bruh
?** or twenty
Being lucky once has no affect on being lucky again.
its easy to miss rage 20 times in an emulator.
"but little did you know, I had nothing better to do today than find the most useless piece of Pokémon trivia ever" that line made my day. Thanks for finding useless things to make jokes about XD
I think the shiny example used in the video doesn't fully grasp how unlikely it is to miss 20 times in a row. Here's a better illustration: if there were a thousand universes like ours, and every star of every galaxy in each one of them was like Earth, and every human in every one of those Earths had been playing this scene on a thousand Gameboys for the entire existence of the universe there would be 0.1% chance that one of those tries resulted in Rage missing 20 times in a row. Yeah
Exantius E Show your process.
That was intense...
So, there's a chance !
Since the universe is infinite, there is actually a 100% chance of it happening, not only that but an infinite amount of players would successfully pull it off. As infinity simply put just keeps going. Therefore any possible scenario will eventually occur and it keeps going after that making each possible scenario occur an infinite amount of times. Infinity doesn´t fuck around
@@NickMK Even if the universe is infinite, there's only a finite amount of matter with which to make stars and planets... assuming we're not talking about Boltzmann brains... fuck
A fifth glitch actually makes this escape much more likely. According to the list of gen 1 glitches, if rage does miss in battle, its accuracy goes from 255/256 to 1/256 for the rest of the battle, meaning the chance of being able to lose is actually (1/256)((255/256)^19) which is much more likely then the original (1/256)^20
On the plus side, you'll have a looooong time to get to know Lorelei :D
Lance Uppercut ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
"yes so what inspired you to become a pokémon trainer"
As your Primeape mercilessly pounds her sleeping Dugong. That is the best time to hit on a girl.
@@jakegordon4204 That sounds like one hell of a euphemism.
I escaped three times in a row while jumping through burning rings on a unicycle with blindfolded eyes.
Bitch please. I did all that while eating a burrito
Ah bitches, all tree of yall are weak af, i did all this whilest getting struck by lightning infinitely without dieing after each lightning strike.
I did ALL of that while counting to 1 million while speedrunning the game on another Gameboy. While taking a nap.
mate i did that while playing minecwaft and woblox at the same time
All six of you are weak, i did all that while making 5 new atomic bombs under 10 seconds.
I did this more than 17 years ago and still remember it. Someone tricked me by saying I had to beat the 4 league members with pokemon that are less than level 15 in order to get a Mew but ended up being stuck in an endless loop where the Dewgong kept healing itself. I remember spending alot of time but eventually found a way to get the Dewgong to attack me by continuously switching between pokemon. I spent >3 hours to try to save my game but I guess if you only have 1 pokemon, thats not a plausible way to get out of the loop.
Getting trapped by Lorelei is kind of fitting since she is named after a siren of german folklore who, sitting on the cliff above the Rhine and combing her golden hair, unwittingly distracted shipmen with her beauty and song, causing them to crash on the rocks. =)
very poetic
This man looked in the face of God, bit the fruit of knowledge, and moonwalked backward into hell
3:35 So basically, the AI "could" spam their Super Powerful "should only have 5 or 8 depending on PP Ups used" Moves as many times as they like?
Cheating assholes...
Yeah so you couldn´t just tank Legendaries that posses selfHeal attacks like in the new Generations lol
Hah!
You better have Burn Heal!
Not as bad as the Battle .
I saw this video and immediately after saw the one about locking yourself in Cinnabar Island so I thought I'd comment something neat you can do there.
In Cinnabar Island there is a girl NPC that is just below the Mansion and the Gym, and just above an old man. This girl only walks horizontally and is at a vertical distance of two steps from the entrance of the Gym. If the door to the Gym is locked, standing in front of it triggers a text box saying something like "The door is locked" and pushes the character back one step. If one stands to the left of the girl NPC and walks to the right, she can be pushed two tiles beneath the Gym door. Saving at that point and walking up to the door will (temporarily, I think?) lock you in a loop. I know there were ways to get out of it, like soft resetting obviously, and some other ways, although I did this so long ago I can't remember. It'd be great if someone could test it.
I just tried that out. The NPC just moves away after a while.
Awesome! I remember finding that out like a decade ago, didn't know others had known haha, thanks!
if you have fly/dig/teleport, you can spam start till the menu pops up
obviosly, if you're trying to lock yourself, you'd leave all those pokemon in the PC befoer trying.
yeah that actually happened to me as a kid, completely by accident
This happened to me once by accident when I was little. I went to challenge the Elite Four with a Poliwrath that knew Rage and it freaked me out when the game was stuck. 😂 (Thankfully I saved before entering, though!)
Bruh.
oh wow this video was amazing XD the time lost was 100% worth it
I'd say it was closer to 99.6109% worth it myself.
I was super interested in reading the comments but at least half of them were people acting as a smart-ass that didn't even pay attention to the video. 1:42, friends. 1:42.
^the smartest fucking comment
Hrm... it is worth noting that Pokemon uses a pseudorandom number generator for producing these values, and as such, there is a finite number of random seeds, and each one produces a finite number of "cycles" of values. That is to say, you can't infinitely generate random numbers; there has to be a point where you start seeing repeats. It may be the case that there is no seed which contains a cycle with 20 consecutive 255 values. In which case, despite your solution seeming plausible on paper, it does not work on actual hardware.
It depends on how exactly Pokemon generates its RNG. I recall when playing on emulator that you can get different results after reloading a save state (but don't quote me on that), which (if true) means the game also uses either the game's timer or user inputs (or a combination of both) when generating the RNG, this means that a result of 20 consecutive 255 values could still be possible given perfect knowledge of the game's state and frame perfect inputs... or blind luck of just pressing things at the right time.
This is an amazing response to this video. I would bet that in the Gen I games, the Pseudo-RNG isn't robust enough to generate the required values. Outside of "looking under the hood" into the state of the game during play, I would have no idea how to prove or test that, though.
I remember reading somewhere that the 255 value counter is continuously running and increases by 1 every frame and then goes back to zero when it hits 255. So when you press A to select an attack, it checks what it's on the frame you press A. That's why in TAS they wait to input attacks. I think
kchrules so just under clock a Gameboy and count the frames so you can escape
That's interesting, kchrules. At least it's an easy hypothesis to test using tools.
"I've used no peepee ups to raise the maximum peepee of my Primeape"
Alright then.
Dong expanded.
Hey, one problem I noticed about getting out of this soft lock: you assume the number generator in the first generation Pokémon games are truly random. Or most games for that matter. Most number generators are pseudo-random meaning they just call a function to generate a new random number, meanings there is a set order to the random numbers. To specifically prove you could get 20 misses in a row, you would also have to prove that either 1) the there is another RNG call between each attempt at attacking, or 2) there is a sequence in the RNG list of numbers that all would result in a missed attack 20 times in a row.
I enjoyed the video as always, have a great day!
THE PEE PEE WILL NOT GO DOWN
CALL A DOCTOR IF IT GOES ON FOR MORE THAN 4 HOURS
Dummy he realise this if pp not go down so typing this is dumb.
LIMITLESS PEEPEE
Lvl99JinboiMan it's pp cmon I've seen this too much
Mood
haha you said pee pee
Axon Terminal you failed the joke.... he said to "use a pee pee up"
Wasent even a joke. he said to use an item called a PP Up. PP standing for Power Point,
We know, lol. I was just pointing out to this person that they could have trolled better
Maturity to the next level with that comment and avatar.
Cyan Koopa wasn't
With emulator savestates, you can save every time it hits, and reset whenever it misses. So the chance becomes 1/5120 (5120 is 20*256.)
It will always be the same if you use a savestate
Even then it's only a second or so more to just wait for it to attack again.
i already toyed with savestates when i had a few pokeballs left, always same result no matter the inputd
@@dudono1744 actually it's not always the same, at least not on generation 3.
i captured all legendaries using only one pokeball for each
@@dudono1744 the thing that remains is the move the enemy will use
Ive used that 1 hit ko move that I think lapras learns and you can totally get it to hit 100% of the time instead of the 25% I think it originally had. I think the enemy's next attack is decided before the player gets to make a decision, cause you can manipulate the next-next move your enemy chooses, but not the next.
Sorry for the confusing explanation, it's late and I'm dumb
8:30 there's a small wording error : "if either of those things were to occur, the chances of them happening consecutively become lower each time"
*Once* a thing occurs, the chance of it happening another time *doesn't change* . Having a miss or a shiny 5 seconds before doesn't magically change your chances of it happening later.
The reduced chance only applies BEFORE the previous event occured. After it occured, occuring a second time has either the chance of happening one time... or zero, most of the time.
The chance gets lower not because of the game, but because thats how probability works, if i flip a coin twice the chances of it landing on heads consecutively is not 1/2, even though my coin is hard coded to land in head 50 percent of the time, there are 3 other cases where that does not happen, head and tails, tails and head, tails and tails. And therefore the chance is 1/4, one out of 4 possible scenarios.
@@omniscientcammaleon9477
Yeah, but *once it landed* the chances on the next try are either 0% or 50%. The coin won't drop on the good side 1 time out of 4 no matter the previous drop.
@@laplongejunior since we are talking consecutive, the previous drop still matter, since we are checking how possible it is to get head and head, not head alone
@@omniscientcammaleon9477
Yeah, but you *already know* the previous throw. We stopped being in the realm of *probabilities* which quantifies unknown events.
So, if previous throw was heads:
Heads OK, tails NOK
If previous was tails:
Heads NOK, tails NOK
Probabilities say the OK situation has a 25% of occuring, but *you* will never notice that 25% unless you're able to travel between parallel universes.
As far you are concerned, the first throw is now "fixed", so you either have 50% or 0%. The chance of getting a *second* heads is either impossible... or equal to the chance of getting one head.
Either the previous was OK and the chances are above the initial probabilities either it was not OK and you already know you have 0% chances of succeeding no matter what the next result is.
exactly, it's just 1/(256*20) turns right? For a second, I thought he meant that rage wouldn't lose PP unless it missed consecutively but that doesn't make sense.
I'm pretty sure there are other ways to get out of that situation if you consider probabilities like that to fit within the definition of "possible". Something like a cosmic ray hitting the electronics and changing the game state in an appropriate way is probably vastly more likely than rage missing 20 times in a row.
I thought there was another design flaw that made it so if rage misses then the next time you use it it only has a 1/256 of hitting make it easier to get out of this softlock
That's once rage hits, if I remember correctly. And once rage hits, PP doesn't count anymore.
According to Bulbapedia, Sage Cb. appears correct. The accuracy of Rage will drop if it misses only after it has landed at least one hit.
That's an old misconception actually. The Rage accuracy only drops if the user's accuracy has been lowered and/or target's evasion has been raised, but does it gradually (it only eventually becomes 1/256). This also applies even when Rage hits and applies to the 2-3 turn Thrash/Petal Dance as well.
Jesus, Gen 1 was full of fucking nightmares.
Gen I's Bulbapedia page actually has a pretty good list of most documented issues with that particular set of games. You can look there to see how much of a nightmare it really is. Maybe Crystal can even make a few corrections or two.
The directions never stated how much PP Rage needed to have... It could be 1/20! Therefore, your odds are changed to 1/256 only... is this cheating?
Well it was never stated, if it was only 1 PP than yeah it would be a lot easier to have it miss, but I guess it's one of those rules that is assumed but not stated
Pikasprey's SoftLockPicking vids are usually him taking a loophole the challenge creator failed to check and exploit it until he escapes
Like gennie wishes you have to word your challenges very carefuly otherwise gennie or pikasprey will exploit it.
Another way would be to teach it a tm and erase rage with literally anything else
@@shaymarkham5801 1:43
I've encountered 2 shinies back to back on the old Emerald where shiny odds are always 8000+. It was Smergal, I thought red tail was the common color at the time because I encountered 2 in a row, but then every Smergal after that was green. I was still new to shiny at that point as I had only ever caught a shiny Wurmple.
Why not just enter the battle with a frozen Primeape? I think you'd really be stuck then.
ZodaStone That works too, but it's a little difficult to get your pokemon frozen
ZodaStone it would take a few turns for it to thaw out right? I'm sure that existed in gen 1
MemesAreDreams freezing in gen I was cured the same as all other status ailments, excluding confusion and sleep. you had to use an item or else you’d be permanently frozen; there was no chance of thawing out randomly
I believe there's a trainer in Victory Road with a Dewgong, can that freeze you? Then you could switch to another mon (which would be released the second you made it through VR)
It's honestly more cruel to dangle the miniscule chance of twenty consecutive 1/256 misses above a player's head.
That was utterly pointless. I just subscribed.
My name is Crystal, so that was quite startling to hear me get congratulated for something I didn't do
Lol hey! Didn't expect to find you here Lilith XD
Weird since the real crystal from the video is salty
@@Dabajaws Salty? She was just joking with her comment unless you mean somewhere else.
I think Chuggaaconroy could probably pull off the escape. Don’t believe me? He did a Pokémon Crystal lp with intentions of using a Koffing on his team, and the first one he encountered was a SHINY one level below learning self-destruct. He did a Pokémon Emerald lp and caught Groudon at near max health with no status condition in a NEST BALL. He did an Earthbound lp and got two 1/128 drop items BACK TO BACK. For reference, you are twice as likely to find a shiny Pokémon as you are to have two consecutive 1/128 occurrences
Nidoking was an absolute beast in the original games. I mean like, sheer-fucking-apocalyptic force.
The 1/256 glitch happened to me so often in those games I legitimately questioned whether 100 accuracy wasn't in percentage, but some other value
4:51 I can hear an OST from Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (The "Cross-examination" theme)
I love you.
EDIT: And a few minutes later, I can hear the "Trance Logic" OST...
"USELESS ANSWERS TO USELESS QUESTIONS!" this got you new subscriber hahaha
Thanks for helping me with my math homework
The pettiness of this is why I’m subscribed
Save states make it a lot faster to get the 20 misses in a row. If you use save states you can reroll each attack until you roll a miss.
then do the whole thing as a TAS and look like a boss
Looks like some dream level luck. Aka impossible
The first part of the comment was already understandable enough, the "aka, impossible" only ruins the joke
I thought it was funny
actually, the dream situation would be much more likely than this.
@@nasekiller Getting dream luck 4 times in a row is more likely. So...yeah
I guess Loreli felt like the Primeape and you as the Dewgong.
07:41 Just like me every morning
Wow I read this comment as he said it
you should see a doctor about that
@@MarcD627 I'm pretty sure that's a normal human occurance.
"The PP will not go down"
You should just ask Dream to help you with this one. Easy.
What? Who's that punk?
@@femmemachete Minecraft RUclipsr who got into trouble in speedrunning communities for submitting a run where he'd hacked up the drop rates of items. (Basically, some items needed to finish the game have a very low-percent chance of dropping.) When he was found out, he lied about it and claimed he was just really lucky, despite the odds of him being that consistently lucky being something like a trillion to one. This created problems because he has a big following of mostly kids who eagerly listened.
He would probably cheat
Wow I remember when you had 4k subs and now you have 42k subs! Keep up the amazing work man!
That feel when you find out Nidoking is weak to water.
And yet can still learn Surf
It's weak to water because it's part ground.
Still not as ridiculous as a Rhydon with Surf.
Pikachu will always be best surf.
Not as ridiculous as dodrio with fly. xD
To add to your comparison to finding shiny pokemon:
Note that E-047 and E-049 are not of the same magnitude. In fact, given the specific numbers, you are roughly as likely to find 12 shiny pokemon in a row ON SIXTEEN SEPARATE OCCASIONS as you are to get out of that soft lock.
Also, I thought of this exact solution. I felt I should mention that.
what does that mean?
Wait... now you do realize it HAS to happen right? I mean someone can just TAS the exit from there. I am rather curious how long it would take them.
well, rng manipulation is a thing so it's probably doable with TAS. Let's see who is bored enough to do that tho.
Even if each attempt took only a single frame, it would almost certainly be running until the heat death of the universe without success.
Not really, since the RNG in Pokémon can be manipulated with button presses. Finding the right combination of commands would make this possible.
TAS should be able to trigger teleport (I mean warp not move) via inputs. Or something like that.
Android 19 no... With frame perfect input, you could do it very quickly.
I love the fact that these videos basically exist to say "this situation is *technically* not impossible to escape from, but it might as well be"
To gurantee no survival (Or more likely, just an even slimmer chance), you actually CAN have 5 (not 6 due to PC healing anything inserted) pokemon, just make sure they all are the Primeape that can only use rage
Primeape can only learn rage per level-up in yellow (where this soft lock was patched) and rage is only obtainable once as a HM, so it wouldn't be possible with Primeapes, altough it would be with 5 Beedrills
I had this running in another tab, spacing out and suddenly I hear "limitless peepee" hahahaha
Very mature
It's PP for power points, not the restroom type.
(6:40) There appears to be a slight math error there. 255/256 = about 0.99609%, not 0.996109%. So, I think you might've typed an extra "1" in there by accident. (Of course, this doesn't change the point you're making about how "100% accurate" moves have a very slight chance to miss, but it's just something I noticed, since I already know that a 1/256 chance is 0.390625%, and that didn't match up with the miss chance you put there.)
And no, this video wasn't boring. I found it somewhat amusing.
Actually, 255/256 is 0.99609, not 0.99609% :P
A 0.99609 chance in what, 0.99609 in 80? 50? 1?
@Liam Serrie The chance of getting a value that is >= 0 and < 255 when there are 256 possible results (0 to 255).
Ohhh I see lol
UncomfortablyClose, your answer should be: “in 1.” 99.609% means 99.609 in 100, so 0.99609 in 1. But you simply omit the “in 1” there, since it is no fraction anymore. Cheers.
A 6.8*10^-49 chance is not a 1 in 6.8*10^49 chance, it's a 1 in 1/(6.8*10^-49) chance, which is roughly a 1 in 1.4*10^48 chance. So Rage missing 20 times in a row is a 1 in 1.4 quindecillion chance, about 50 times more likely than the posed 68 quindecillion chance. Which, for what miniscule difference it makes at that scale, helps Pikasprey's case that it's technically possible to get out.
The rest of the math in the video checks out as far as I can tell.
if u are playing the game in an emulator the u can wait until rage misses and save the game after that and repeate the process
By the time you would have successfully done that, you, your kids and your grandkids would be in the afterlife
If you used a PP Max to increase from 20 to 32 on Rage, the probability lowers to 10^-78 or just barely more likely than encountering 20 straight shinies
20 times in a row? Challenge accepted.
Brandon K. Ferguson OK then. Reply to my reply when you actually do this in about 89 krpledgjillion years.
0:29 Not me irl
Pipsqueak Plays same t🅱h
me too thanks
I wish.
Dream could have rage miss 20 times in a row first try and win the lottery at the same time
This is like that episode of Dr Who where he's stuck in a castle until he punches a corridor through a thick wall of diamond
Oh yeah that one, that was a good episode
Based on how RNG works through seeds, isn’t there a good chance that it is 100% impossible to escape, and no amount of luck would ever get you out?
On the other hand, you might be able to guarantee the 1/256 glitch with frame perfect inputs if there's a way to burn random numbers mid battle.
@@PragmaticAntithesis There isn't as far as I know. The random number generator is actually so bad you cannot miss even 5 times in a row.
But the RNG is based on the game's timer clock, so in theory, if you can master the timer(which I've actually seen done before) you could pull this off.
"we have just put the game into a very terrifying state"
Oh god, not Florida 😭
I enjoy how the 1/255 accuracy glitch is probably due to carry flag shenanigans.
>”missing an attack will cause peepee to go down"
sage wisdom
To people who don’t know, all numbers that are big are linked to smaller numbers. Trillion is linked to 3 because tri is its prefix, quindecillion has quin as the prefix and dec as the suffix, meaning that it is linked to 15.
you cant toss hms and primeape can learn strength so just teach it that
That's what I said? Why is no one else saying this I feel like I'm missing something
@@yus16g in gen one you could I'm pretty sure
The funniest thing about the accuracy glitch in this game, is that 255 in hexadecimal (what this game would use in its coding) is FF.
So yeah, getting the misfortune of missing with a 100% accuracy is a definite F. Two in fact.
anyone who says "gen one is the best gen" is sentenced to this fate
gen one is the best gen
@@professionalfangster1510 Looks like you’re going to the shadow realm, Jimbo.
If someone is stupid enough to get themselves stuck this way then they deserve to get softlocked.
thing is, they'd have to be pretty smart to figure out how to do that by themselves...
But someone could have performed the lock on the save file and given the game to someone else.
Here's the thing- random numbers generated by code aren't actually random, since there's no way to tell the CPU to just roll a dice. So I'm pretty sure it is in fact impossible to get probably even just two 255's in a row, let alone 20.