Blows me away how Mark is still coming with details of the Dutch infrastructure that I didn't realize, and does that many times in each video. Especially with just a spontaneous chat, you wouldn't expect that. He's a wealth of information for sure!
You need to get in a car in the Netherlands. I sold my car, but I can barrow one or rent one and drive you around and show you the other side of it. Maybe good to see that also that side and not for cyclists, but for people that think that cycling is dangerous and take all the space from the cars.
When you passed the "gasstation" at around 12:00 it reminded me of one of my favorite things to shock my American friends. I love telling them the gas price/ gallon :) (FYI its just over $8,20 at time of writing and last summer it was over $10,20)
Ah, yes. Excellent point. If only we also paid even a little closer to the true cost of gas... it is subsidized endlessly here. Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
I remember a study that found drivers were 4 times more likely to yield to peds at 20mph than closer to 40mph. Your discussion at the round about reminded me of that. I'd say anecdotally it seems like there is something to that. Along the Nickel Plate trail in Fishers Indiana it has nearly identical road crossings, with the exception of the cross traffic speed. At the crossing where cars are moving 20mph or less, they yield basically every time. At the crossings where cross traffic is moving 40mph plus, stopping is the exception (but does happen sometimes because people are friendly). Thanks for the great ride and chat Mark and John!!
At 25:19 a cyclist wants to be on the safe side by sticking out his left hand, signaling to the car-driver that he is coming. But I'd like to point out a very nice behavior you will see all the time, namely: a cyclist sticking out his RIGHT arm, signaling to the car-driver that he is leaving the roundabout, and that the car-driver can go and doesn't have to wait for him.
Yes! Great point, and I do this frequently. Thanks so much for watching and for this wonderful addition to the conversation. I really appreciate it, and I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
It's great to hear his pride & knowledge of the Dutch infrastructure history. It was quite interesting as well to hear Mark add do/does in normal sentences so often (Fe: It does mean...) as in Dutch we'd use 'wel' in all those sentences to emphasize the contradiction in it.
Very interesting point about your social willingness disappearing when driving over 30km/h. I wonder what happens when we are in a traffic jam in a city. You feel you need to get to your destination... fast. I am not sure when i feel like allowing someone to cut in and when not. Might depend on urgency, but also the speed i was most recently using. The speed limits on the city in my country is 60km/h in any area. So you do feel rushed all the time.even more so when a pesky pedestrian or bicyclist dares to slow you down. Drivers really feel they shouldn't exist. Slowing down for a pedestrian crossing is rare. Even the willingness not to hit a pedestrian is low. It's accepted to push them a bit. No surprise we have rush hour from 07:00 to 21:00.
When our expectations are not met by, say, traffic gridlock or even just the inability to maintain a consistent 60km/hr (or higher), we, as drivers, frequently get cranky and anti-social. Not surprisingly, in these cases micro-aggressions ensue, tempers boil over, and road rage incidents increase. What's almost magical about 30km/hr street designs, including properly designed protected intersections and roundabouts with pedestrian and pedal-powered priority, is that the expectations for us as drivers are shifted - We relax a bit intuitively knowing we'll get where we need to go and that it is not a race or a competition. Since we are traveling at slower, non-lethal speeds and the design prompts and encourages yielding behaviors, that's precisely what we do. The frustration for drivers of not being able to go fast as the streets and roads are designed is ultimately a failure not of the drivers but the designers and engineers of the mobility network. Thanks so much for watching. I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
You missed an opportunity to have a conversation about emergency vehicles and the infrastructure in the Netherlands. This is one thing that many detractors like to bring up when talking about bikepaths and disallowing through traffic and how will ambulances ever get to the people. But the thing is that in many places the emergency vehicles can use the bikepath if they need to
Interesting to hear a lot of problems we have in Germany as well - like a parking garage in a place where else would be a pedestrian area or outdated roads that even may have to little space for a good design.
Yeah, as Mark and I like to point out no place in the NL or anywhere else for that matter is perfect, there’s always something to work on… and then times change and there’s something new to improve. I call that job security for us. Hehe 😜
24:21 This scooter here might certainly become a cause of concern for this bidirectional roundabout. Cyclists can manage, but when mixed like this it can become dangerous even though they are speed limited. Just a fraction of concentration loss from anyone is enough for a collision here I believe. Also, at 24:31 and 24:43 I see some cyclists casually going in the wrong side direction. I hope they are doing it consciously! Btw, thanks for another great series with Mark. Its always nice to see him discuss about those salient features of infrastructure in Netherlands.
Yes, I agree regarding the scooters - in this facility and on the cycle paths in general, given the typical scooter rider behaviors that I witness. Some do try to be courteous, but far too few. Wrong Way Riders: Hard to tell for sure, but I'd say the riders appeared to be "cutting the corner" consciously. You are quite welcome, and yes, I agree wholeheartedly - I always enjoy connecting with Mark for just this reason. Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
At 1:54 it is interesting to see the dutch infrastructure of the 80s. Separated bycicle paths that connect the dwellings to eachother and the schools, fields, whatever. So of course you can let your child just bike to school by itself, or to the soccer field, let it play outside. Or even for an adult to bike meet a neighbour down the bicycle path, have a drink, socialize and just bike back home drunk with no worries.
Yes, exactly! This also proves that these types of communities, which are built in more suburban, single-family home contexts, can still feature connected and cohesive separated pathways that are safe and inviting for All Ages & Abilities. Thanks so much for watching. I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
Anywhere cycling paths run along high volume, higher speed roads we should consider planting more (dense) bushes and hedges , maybe even on top of modestly raised banks. It really does reduce noise. Especially the higher frequencies like those caused by friction between car tires and asphalt, the most irritating close proximity frequencies for most people.
@@Snowshowslow Absolutely. 's-Hertogenbosch ranks among the top 10 city destinations of the Netherlands for tourists. And not only for architecture's sake!
"Stick your hand out" was painted on the road surface? I couldn't see a sign, but there was something on the ground. We can't do that here in the US, but I think we can do some real improvements if we push for them. It's a strong Republican town, but we already have shark teeth and zebra crossings, and some of the signals have orange borders, so we're picking up useful things from Europe. We just need to pick up a few bike tips as well.
Small steps... keep spreading the word in the community and growing the movement. Most of these moves are practical and pragmatic while having a fabulous return on investment - perfect for fiscally conservative conversations 😀
The orange back plates on traffic signals are becoming standard in the US, it’s an option them the city orders the traffic heads but it’s been proven to be safer since they get the attention of people driving at night and the orange reflection. Shark teeth were approved by the MUTCD since 2000 but some towns and cities are just starting to use them. It’s improving but we gotta do it faster.
Blows me away how Mark is still coming with details of the Dutch infrastructure that I didn't realize, and does that many times in each video. Especially with just a spontaneous chat, you wouldn't expect that. He's a wealth of information for sure!
Yeah, I'm with you! Very fortunate and honored to have had the opportunity to partner with Mark once again. Cheers! John
You need to get in a car in the Netherlands. I sold my car, but I can barrow one or rent one and drive you around and show you the other side of it. Maybe good to see that also that side and not for cyclists, but for people that think that cycling is dangerous and take all the space from the cars.
Wow! Thanks for the generous offer. I'll let you know.
Good man! Good idea too.
When you passed the "gasstation" at around 12:00 it reminded me of one of my favorite things to shock my American friends. I love telling them the gas price/ gallon :) (FYI its just over $8,20 at time of writing and last summer it was over $10,20)
Ah, yes. Excellent point. If only we also paid even a little closer to the true cost of gas... it is subsidized endlessly here. Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
I remember a study that found drivers were 4 times more likely to yield to peds at 20mph than closer to 40mph. Your discussion at the round about reminded me of that. I'd say anecdotally it seems like there is something to that. Along the Nickel Plate trail in Fishers Indiana it has nearly identical road crossings, with the exception of the cross traffic speed. At the crossing where cars are moving 20mph or less, they yield basically every time. At the crossings where cross traffic is moving 40mph plus, stopping is the exception (but does happen sometimes because people are friendly).
Thanks for the great ride and chat Mark and John!!
That's a fascinating observation, Ross. Thanks so much for watching and for this contribution to the conversation. Cheers! John
At 25:19 a cyclist wants to be on the safe side by sticking out his left hand, signaling to the car-driver that he is coming. But I'd like to point out a very nice behavior you will see all the time, namely: a cyclist sticking out his RIGHT arm, signaling to the car-driver that he is leaving the roundabout, and that the car-driver can go and doesn't have to wait for him.
Yes! Great point, and I do this frequently. Thanks so much for watching and for this wonderful addition to the conversation. I really appreciate it, and I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
Enjoyed the tour of the city. Thanks to Mark, John and Jordan.
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers! John
It's great to hear his pride & knowledge of the Dutch infrastructure history. It was quite interesting as well to hear Mark add do/does in normal sentences so often (Fe: It does mean...) as in Dutch we'd use 'wel' in all those sentences to emphasize the contradiction in it.
Thanks so much for watching! 😀
Very interesting point about your social willingness disappearing when driving over 30km/h. I wonder what happens when we are in a traffic jam in a city. You feel you need to get to your destination... fast. I am not sure when i feel like allowing someone to cut in and when not. Might depend on urgency, but also the speed i was most recently using. The speed limits on the city in my country is 60km/h in any area. So you do feel rushed all the time.even more so when a pesky pedestrian or bicyclist dares to slow you down. Drivers really feel they shouldn't exist. Slowing down for a pedestrian crossing is rare. Even the willingness not to hit a pedestrian is low. It's accepted to push them a bit. No surprise we have rush hour from 07:00 to 21:00.
When our expectations are not met by, say, traffic gridlock or even just the inability to maintain a consistent 60km/hr (or higher), we, as drivers, frequently get cranky and anti-social. Not surprisingly, in these cases micro-aggressions ensue, tempers boil over, and road rage incidents increase. What's almost magical about 30km/hr street designs, including properly designed protected intersections and roundabouts with pedestrian and pedal-powered priority, is that the expectations for us as drivers are shifted - We relax a bit intuitively knowing we'll get where we need to go and that it is not a race or a competition. Since we are traveling at slower, non-lethal speeds and the design prompts and encourages yielding behaviors, that's precisely what we do. The frustration for drivers of not being able to go fast as the streets and roads are designed is ultimately a failure not of the drivers but the designers and engineers of the mobility network. Thanks so much for watching. I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
You missed an opportunity to have a conversation about emergency vehicles and the infrastructure in the Netherlands. This is one thing that many detractors like to bring up when talking about bikepaths and disallowing through traffic and how will ambulances ever get to the people. But the thing is that in many places the emergency vehicles can use the bikepath if they need to
Yeah, good point... seems like I've talked about that in another video... or perhaps that was just in my head.🤣
Rosmalen was ‘confiscated’ in the mid-nineties
Yeah, Mark talked a bit about that while we were riding to our lunch location.
Interesting to hear a lot of problems we have in Germany as well - like a parking garage in a place where else would be a pedestrian area or outdated roads that even may have to little space for a good design.
Yeah, as Mark and I like to point out no place in the NL or anywhere else for that matter is perfect, there’s always something to work on… and then times change and there’s something new to improve. I call that job security for us. Hehe 😜
24:21 This scooter here might certainly become a cause of concern for this bidirectional roundabout. Cyclists can manage, but when mixed like this it can become dangerous even though they are speed limited. Just a fraction of concentration loss from anyone is enough for a collision here I believe.
Also, at 24:31 and 24:43 I see some cyclists casually going in the wrong side direction. I hope they are doing it consciously!
Btw, thanks for another great series with Mark. Its always nice to see him discuss about those salient features of infrastructure in Netherlands.
Yes, I agree regarding the scooters - in this facility and on the cycle paths in general, given the typical scooter rider behaviors that I witness. Some do try to be courteous, but far too few. Wrong Way Riders: Hard to tell for sure, but I'd say the riders appeared to be "cutting the corner" consciously. You are quite welcome, and yes, I agree wholeheartedly - I always enjoy connecting with Mark for just this reason. Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
At 1:54 it is interesting to see the dutch infrastructure of the 80s. Separated bycicle paths that connect the dwellings to eachother and the schools, fields, whatever. So of course you can let your child just bike to school by itself, or to the soccer field, let it play outside. Or even for an adult to bike meet a neighbour down the bicycle path, have a drink, socialize and just bike back home drunk with no worries.
Yes, exactly! This also proves that these types of communities, which are built in more suburban, single-family home contexts, can still feature connected and cohesive separated pathways that are safe and inviting for All Ages & Abilities. Thanks so much for watching. I hope you are enjoying the Channel. Cheers! John
Thanks for another great video with Mark.
Den Bosch is a definite must-see if I ever make it to The Netherlands.
You definitely should! Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
Loved part one!
Yay! Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
Delighted that part two is now available.
I hope you enjoy it!
Thanks for this upload guys, been a while since i've seen it in real, it's a nice city for sure..
You are quite welcome, Tom! I'm glad you enjoyed the virtual ride. Cheers! John
Late to the party! Am enjoying it anyway 👍🌷👋😉
Yay! Have fun 😀
Seems like quite the work out that day ! ;)
I was definitely huffy and puffing. Hehe 🤣 Thanks so much for watching. I hope you enjoyed it. Cheers! John
Anywhere cycling paths run along high volume, higher speed roads we should consider planting more (dense) bushes
and hedges , maybe even on top of modestly raised banks. It really does reduce noise. Especially the higher frequencies
like those caused by friction between car tires and asphalt, the most irritating close proximity frequencies for most people.
Yes, I agree! Thanks so much for watching. Cheers! John
Mark’s traffic explanation is really fantastic, but his tourist guide mode still leaves something to be desired…
Traffic is his thing 😀 Thanks for tuning in. Cheers! John
Haha true! I hope they had the time to view some of the city's historic architecture, canals and 'terrasjes' as well 😁
@@Snowshowslow Absolutely. 's-Hertogenbosch ranks among the top 10 city destinations of the Netherlands for tourists. And not only for architecture's sake!
@@reneolthof6811 Bosche Bollen may be another point of interest... 😎
@@mourlyvold64 You mean Bossche Bollen? Or the Bossche Bolwoningen?
"Stick your hand out" was painted on the road surface? I couldn't see a sign, but there was something on the ground.
We can't do that here in the US, but I think we can do some real improvements if we push for them. It's a strong Republican town, but we already have shark teeth and zebra crossings, and some of the signals have orange borders, so we're picking up useful things from Europe. We just need to pick up a few bike tips as well.
Yes, it said "steek je hand uit" on the ground. I think it's because there was an extra turnoff for cyclists there.
Small steps... keep spreading the word in the community and growing the movement. Most of these moves are practical and pragmatic while having a fabulous return on investment - perfect for fiscally conservative conversations 😀
The orange back plates on traffic signals are becoming standard in the US, it’s an option them the city orders the traffic heads but it’s been proven to be safer since they get the attention of people driving at night and the orange reflection. Shark teeth were approved by the MUTCD since 2000 but some towns and cities are just starting to use them. It’s improving but we gotta do it faster.