Review: The greatest Greek grammar of the 20th century? (Machen Review)
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Machen's Greek Grammar from 1923 is possibly the most widely used Greek grammar of the 20th century. Perhaps there is a reason for that. So let's review Machen's grammar and see how it stacks up against modern grammars.
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There is a study guide for Machen: "Study Guide for J. Gresham Machen's New Testament Greek for Beginners" by David L. Thompson, Macmillan Publishing, 1980. The answer key is in the back of this study guide.
I'm going through Machen at the moment, having started with Biblingo, got about two thirds of the way through, and deciding I really needed to consolidate. I'm really loving it. On Day 1 I finally understood accenting rules and enclitics! Hooray! Biblingo also teaches these things and assesses them during drills on other topics, but lets you off with a warning if you get them wrong, so I would be constantly getting that orange warning text, not knowing why (disheartening), and not wanting to search back through dozens of videos to find out why. On this and on all topics, I'm loving how with Machen I get a complete but concise treatment that is clearly written down so I can read and re-read it and refer and re-refer until I understand it. I agree it would not be the best as the primary resource for those (like me) without access to a teacher, but it's perfect for what I'm using it for.
I used this grammar in college in the 1970s. Now I am in seminary and we're using Mounce. I find Mounce 'way too extremely wordy, and he often explains that there's another concept that he'll introduce us to in chapter so and so. So he has a lot of himself in the text, and a lot of unnecessary comments. Machen, meanwhile, sticks to the subject. The lucid explanations are solid gold in Machen.
We used Mounce where I went, and I cannot stand it. As you said, it's way too wordy and convoluted. Even with study partners, it was a slog getting through the chapters and try to retain anything resembling relevant information. I'm convinced all the grammatical discussions could be one fourth their current size if Mounce would toss out the dross and stick just to the topic at hand.
I also strongly dislike how he introduced verbs so late. I legitimately felt cheated and offended for them having been withheld for so long, preventing the student from actually being able to read and translate his mountain of exercises he's expected to do for homework practically being told to fight with one arm (or both) tied behind his back.
I am currently in a Greek class and the professor is using Machen to teach from; as he indicates it's his favorite and the one he has been using for years. It's been my first experience with Greek so its hard to compare with anything else...but I have learned a lot so far from it and do personally like it.
I plan on picking up Merkle & Plummer's Greek to supplement my learning outside of our class.
I was taught elementary Greek back in the 70s with this grammar. Still use it quite frequently. A really good grammar.
I used this book in my undergrad studies learning NT Greek and I liked this book. I like the way he explained the concepts and I found it easy to use even on my own
I do have a copy of Machen's grammar Printed after 1951. I originally learned Attic Greek in the 1980s but am now returning to it after semi-retirement.
This is the first greek grammar that I was taught from. By the way there is a answer book that came out for this grammar that I found after I took New Testament greek. I recently went through Mounce's grammar and appreciated his rule based approach which I find to be easier than rote memory in Machen. I also found an online pdf of this grammar. Thanks for your reviews!
I use Machen to teach Greek and have for a dozen years. I actually use Dan McCartney's update. McCartney took me through the original back in the 80s and added the extra material about the participle (which he added to the original).
I watch your grammar reviews consistently and have been curious for some time about your thoughts on Machen's grammar. A few retired pastors have passed many of their books on to me and Machen is one of the grammars (along with Colwell, Summers, and Wenham) that have been added to my library. I worked through it after my first Koine Greek course (which used Mounce), and preferred Machen's approach. In seminary I worked through the second edition which was edited by Dan McCartney (2004). McCartney makes some improvements, but that edition still talks about deponents and does not say much, if anything, about verbal aspect. The overall approach, though, has been my favorite. If we could somehow combine Merkle/Plummer and Machen into one book, then we might just end up with the perfect beginning grammar.
Thank you for all the time you put into these reviews!
I think you're on to something - combining the best of modern grammars like Beginning with New Testament Greek with the order of Machen would be intriguing!
I learned Greek in a local church Bible institute. My teacher was a Bible translator who had translated the NT in the jungle in Brazil back in the 1970's. We used Machen. I've since taught Greek classes in my church over the years. I've used Mounce and Baugh. But I always find myself going back to Machen, mostly because of the order and succinctness. To me the layout of Mounce seemed to busy. I like the simplicity of the layout in Machen.
Think Machen was more well known in the US, though he does get a mention along with E Jay in the preface to Wenham which was the universal text in UK and UK influenced universities back in my day. Prior to that Nunn was used pretty extensively as was JH Moulton’s little Introduction to The Study of New Testament Greek which came out at the beginning of the century and went through five editions, and numerous impressions , the most recent version being 1955, which was slightly revised in 1954 by HG Meecham. This was brilliant, not only because like the 4vol monster he went on to produce, it distinguished between accidence and syntax, but it also included a reader at the end which gives exercises and a study plan for those working alone keyed to the sections in the book, a small vocabulary list and various useful appendices on things like uses of ἱνα, periphrastic, prepositions etc. Marvellously it also had a little envelope inside the back cover containing pull out paradigm charts printed on Bible paper. My RE teacher gave me his copy before I went to University and those charts decorated my wall, though I didn’t make as much use of it as I might have because we used Wenham in class. Funnily enough I now find it useful to go back to as it’s a brilliant digest of the reference grammar he later produced and often has bits of morphological or grammatical explanation in that other beginning grammars omit. It also uses NAGD order which I like, but I think does tend to presume a grammar school level of acquaintance with grammar generally and with trad methods of learning classical languages. You might enjoy having a look at it.
I liked the part where you gushed over the appeal of old books! Great video!
Amen!
I really like Machen and feel that he offers rapid progress to basic competence. He also has a nice, concise writing style.
It's great that he doesn't shy away from accenting, which can be important for meaning.
However, I've never really used an alternative grammar so can't compare with others.
Thanks for the review.
There is an answer key to the exercises by Spiros Zodhiates. (AMG Publishers). Not sure if it is still in print.
Could you review A. T. Robertson's massive grammar?
Yes. I hope to - but I hope to go through some other intermediate grammars first. :)
I started preaching from UT about a year ago. I have really enjoyed it. And I like the NET also but hasn't preached from it but uses it as a reference.
I'd used this book to refresh my Greek on my own after finished 1st year Greak with Mounce twenty years ago. The Greek into English or vise versa, help me think deeply how to translate. Thanks for your sharing.
Thanks for the review. I really enjoyed it. I cut my teeth on Summers and would love to hear your thoughts on that. Thanks for all of your hard work.
Summers was actually the first Grammar I reviewed. You can find the review here: ruclips.net/video/r36pnQFIBq8/видео.html
@@bma outstanding! Thank you for letting me know. It is a great review as well. God bless your ministry.
I learned most of my NT Greek from Machen. After an introductory course I took, I looked for a free resource and found the Good Old Machen as PDF. I studied one chapter a day over 8 months (October 2018 - May 2019).
I think the structure and sequence were good. I still struggle with aspect because I did not learn it at the beginning. I questioned deponancy from the outset and my doubts were confirmed when I read a paper that rejects this concept (this was around May 2019 when I was almost done with the book).
I think what helped me throughout the process was reading the New Testament in Greek using an interlinear (Greek/English) alongside a formal (mostly literal) Arabic (my mother tongue) translation.
Keep up the great work!
My Greek professor used the revised edition of Machen (ed. McCartney). I still refer to it from time to time. Though brief, Machen explains many concepts that I feel are sometimes missing in other first-year grammars-but that may just be nostalgia. McCartney made some valuable changes regarding verbal aspect but not necessarily regarding deponency. Still, I benefited greatly from working through Machen for my first serious study of NT Greek. It has helped me to appreciate the works by Mounce and Merkle/Plummer later. Thank you for your review! If you find a copy of the McCartney revision, you may want to add it to your collection.
Thanks! I'll keep an eye out for it.
Great and interesting video. AT some point you referenced a four volume set of books (next to the large "a") on the book shelf. I did not catch what those books were but sounded interesting. Could you identify those more clearly. Thank you.
Oh yes, that is the set by Moulton, Howard and Turner (sometimes abreviated to MHT). It is a four volume descriptive grammar which is well respected. The best place to get it in my opinion is on logos here: mntg.me/mht
Hey Daryl, can you do a video comparing the 5 and 8 case systems? Thanks.
Oooh. Good idea! Thanks!
Its reprinted March 2023, after 1 century
I'm currently going thru Machen, I'm enjoying it more than Summers grammar.
I learned Koine using the Mighty Machen back in the mid-80's (still have it - looks like a 1951 reprint). I really liked it and found the layout reasonable and helpful back then. We got around the answer key problem by using Learn or Review New Testament Greek by Spiros Zodhiates. We used Lexical Aids by Metzger to supplement vocabulary, and Dana and Mantey was our second year grammar (which I found less helpful as it seemed more to describe than teach the language).
I also had Dana & Mantey as a second year grammar (though only as a supplement to Wallace). Thanks for your comment!
What is the "Noone" grammar (sounds like)? Thanks for your feedback.
That is a reference to Elements of New Testament Greek by Nunn. You'll still find it around, though it is old now.
@@bma Thank you.
to this day I still use it!
I like Rev. H.P.V. Nunn's grammar, Machen is o.k. as well.
But does it have an answer key?
Nope. Most grammars designed for classrooms don't.
13:10 Nope
There is a study guide for Machen: "Study Guide for J. Gresham Machen's New Testament Greek for Beginners" by David L. Thompson, Macmillan Publishing, 1980. The answer key is in the back of this study guide.
One negative with Machen is that there are no answers to his exercises. That never made sense to me.
There is a study guide for Machen: "Study Guide for J. Gresham Machen's New Testament Greek for Beginners" by David L. Thompson, Macmillan Publishing, 1980. The answer key is in the back of this study guide.