Progressive Infiltration Of The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod - Ryan Turnipseed
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- The United Methodist Church is far from the only religious institution that wokism has infiltrated. The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS), popularly known as the conservative alternative to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of American (ELCA), is dealing with similar struggles with the ascendant intolerant orthodoxy of progressivism.
In this episode, Ryan Turnipseed, a lay member of the LCMS in Ponca City, tells his story of theological bullying in response to some public truth-telling that he did. It closely resembles what many other right-leaning people in the UMC have experienced for a decade or so, including me. Ryan was kind enough to drive over from Ponca City to sit down and compare notes on how this ideology operates to remove biblically faithful people from its ranks. It cannot be challenged, even by laypeople (as you'll learn, Ryan is facing the prospect of being excommunicated).
This will be one of the more mentally-demanding interviews that I publish. Ryan isn't a surface-level thinker. He would easily be associated with the reactionary right. I spend a good deal of time and energy trying to explain his worldview to those who have been brought up in the mainline mainstream way of thinking in America. It is definitely a worthy conversation.
Two highly intelligent men discussing the state of religion in America more people need to hear discussions like this. Ryan is wise beyond his years. Thanks Jeffery for having him on. I am sure Ryan enjoyed it as well.
@@margorice1
Accusing people of being racist, without evidence, is reprehensible. It is also a violation of the Ten Commandments.
@@margorice1
You aren't thanking me?
My sister and her family in Ohio are Missouri synod. They left the ELCA over the ordination of gays. We've been talking about UMC disaffiliation for months. Your discussion here is fascinating!
Same here!!! Missouri Synod Lutheran in Ohio.
After listening to this entire interview, I still can't figure out what Ryan did that was so terrible or to whom.
Haha, he just published a public criticism of some notes on the LCMS's commentary on Luther's Larger Catechism, as I recall. It has been a while since I did this. He highlighted how the denomination published pieces that were identitarian and woke, signaling encroaching progressivism in a body that was supposed to be immune to it. They overreacted. I have no idea what has transpired since then...
He did nothing terrible.
He is guilty of thinking and writing. Unless you have evidence, you should not think that Ryan is a bad person. The conflict has occurred because the institution is corrupt.
My mother was LCMS and she tried to intimidate me when I was young, even though I had done nothing wrong she acted like I had. That was more than 50 years ago. Just recently, I have realized how corrupt and evil she was.
He’s been courting white supremacists, so the synod put its foot down.
I'm sorry to hear you were mistreated by your mother. I was raised LCMS (until we split to LCC Lutheran Church Canada for easier administration) I raised my children and now grandchildren under this synod. While I am greatly disturbed by what is happening and have myself questioned some practices, I don't lump it all together and paint all within with the same stain. I wouldn't say the institution /denomination is corrupt, but some certainly are being pulled into it. There are good and bad in all denominations, and they desperately need our prayers. @@jakebredthauer5100
Because he doesn't say it as it is. The host should have called the other side to join the conversation, this way, the guy was given the platform to give his version and his version only.
As a GMC pastor who, once upon a time, was attending a LCMS church, I found this both fascinating and sad.
As a confessional Lutheran myself I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, it was compounded by the fact that I saw you both on the Conversations That Matter podcast which is excellent. I have been very interested to learn more about my Methodist brothers, what books would you recommend that would be a good introduction to your tradition? I hope you have Ryan on again in the future, God Bless!
Jeffrey, understanding the parallel fights that are going on in other churches is very helpful to us. The tactics of cultural Marxism are insidious and deadly to all of our institutions.
Very interesting story. I would admonish Ryan to stay humble, above reproach, and walk in the Spirit at all times. There must be hundreds of people waiting for him to commit the slightest faux pas so they can render him ineffective.
He already has. He shares platforms and plays footsie with Corey Mahler, an unrepentant man who's violations of the Fifth and Eighth Commandments (Lutheran numbering) led him to be excommunicated.
Yes, and there are probably thousands of us cheering him on!!!
@@Boogenhagennsharing a platform, doesn't sound like a sin there. This young man is doing the right thing. I am sad the LCMS Synod did not do the right thing. I am sad they attacked Mr. Turnipseed in the way of excommunicating him instead of doing the right thing. Shame on you Mr. Harrison and others!
I love watching this kind of discussion and feel hopeful because he is so young AND intelligent.
This video was an exceptional, eye-opening discussion that has reawakened this LCMS member to investigate further the evolving ideologies of the denomination. I keep reminding myself that the ‘evil one’ has 3 principle targets in his sights in his agenda to control the world… governments, religion, and the family. There is unarguable evidence he is succeeding in his endeavors in all 3 avenues, both directly and indirectly as one or 2 of the 3 are used to influence and manipulate the others into compliance. May God continue to bless your outreach ministry as you shed light on that which is contributing to a world descending ever deeper into darkness.
This is breaking my heart. I guess I didn't know much about it. I just go online to watch church, since I lost my husband, and everything seems good. The sermons are great as they're based on the bible, the music is usually beautiful and heavenly---and then I hear this!!!! I heard this on another site and thought he was just trying to divide the church, maybe just a trouble-maker. Now I believe Ryan. 😪 How can a conservative Christian church do this?
Yes, I agree, and I hope it's fought all the way until the end of this craziness. You know as I do, I'm sure, conservatives lay low and allow too much without saying anything directly to the antagonists. We don't like direct confrontation, but if we ever needed to speak up, now is the time. This entire thing has me very concerned.
The LCMS goes down this path the will lose people
Probably. I don't really think it is good to be concerned about what will cost people, though. If it is the faithful way to go, then go, even if it costs. But if it is faithless, then I don't care if it wins the whole world. Neither does Jesus.
LCMS has been losing members.
@@jakebredthauer5100 Yes, the LCMS has lost members, maybe due to poor catechesis, but not nearly the rate of loss of the Episcopal Church or the ELCA and other protestant churches whose rapid pursuit of heterodoxy has coincided with their ordination of women and pursuit of DEI. Women's ordination, biblically unsound, was an extension of the Women's liberation movement which began targeting the Churches. Memberships have plummeted in these churches along with the rising numbers of female clergy. Statements from the ELCA's current presiding bishop, Elizabeth Eaton, indicate that everybody goes to Heaven, no matter what his beliefs, and that nobody goes to Hell and if there is a Hell, it is empty. Eaton's gospel, like many of the feminists leading these churches, is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone gets a prize and nobody fails is an expression of modern feminism and the ELCA and the Episcopal Churches are rapidly becoming feminist with practices bordering satanism. DEI (diversity, equality and inclusiveness) were overwhelmingly issues at the very formation of the ELCA and its constitution where DEI concerns and other social concerns of the time largely overshadowed Gospel concerns. Church committees were to be racially, ethnically and sexually diverse, and the position of the clergy was reduced. Doctrine was not a concern and the merger was rushed. I was a member of one of the Churches that formed the ELCA and years ago left that body for the LCMS. Sadly, I don't see any reason that the ELCA should continue to label itself as Lutheran.
Sounds like Luther at the Diet of Worms...
Both the Small and Large Catechism were done in 1529 with the Small written first. The Small Catechism is intended to be the memorized summary of Christian doctrine, while the Large Catechism was a series of Luther's Sermons on each of the parts of the Small Catechism.
Your analysis of the Small Catechism is correct, but the Large Catechism was never a series of sermons.
@Boogenhagenn initially it was. It was based on a three sermon series that Luther did. It was fleshed out and made into a separate book, but it *is* technically true that it stemmed from a series of sermons.
@@matthewbless3335 Goes to show how much attention I paid to Masaki and Ziegler
@Boogenhagenn it's a Grey enough area I can totally give you a pass 😉
I've read all the comments here and I think Ryan is more well read than all of these people. Think where he'll be in another 20 years
That is what they are afraid of.
Well read, articulate, misguided
@@margorice1
how
misguided in what way?@@margorice1
Ryan experienced in that "meeting" what is called a "Star Chamber" trial.
Excellent point about low quality of leadership in SO many places and their unintelligent demands of those more obviously intelligent than they are.
At 57:09, four people against one (Ryan)? Doesn't that sound like the typical situation on The View?
I had seen news clips or other Y-T videos on Ryan. His was your best interview yet. Very brave and interesting young guy. Thanks!
The interviewer's doing an excellent job, too. I didn't catch his name. He's sharp, too, bcs he asks the right questions and is trying to fix the Methodist churches.
my favorite Luthren talks to my favorite Methodist.....
Great interview.
I think Ryan has a future in leadership. I do think he needs to refine his arguments carefully to ensure clarity on some of the issues. I think you, Jeffrey, felt some of that clarity needed.
Love both of you and your mission to shine the light on the problems in your respective denominations. If only there were more courageous folks doing the same.
Congratulations! I left the United Methodist Church as well. I saw redactive criticism taught in Old Testament college courses, female clergy treating my mother and her acquaintances like worthless and invisible non-persons unless they gave lots of cash, and male clergy laughing when children told them they did not feel God's presence in church. Time to split, baby!
This is a really good interview. My attention span doesn't usually last this long. I usually have to take things in 20 or 30 minute intervals, walk away, and then come back later. But I've been watching this entire time! Shocking. Anyway, I wanna commend both of you on your Interview skills and on how you have both handled the situations that you are dealing with. My mother was raised Methodist but when I came along, she put me in a Lutheran school so we became Lutheran. We got the discount that way. But seriously, we remained faithful to our church and, loved the strict adherence to scripture and not messing it up with a bunch of things that people like to think might work to "supplement" them. The Bible doesn't need any supplements. It's final on its own. The church at large has been infiltrated. It's a simple as that. Satan has gotten his claws into the church. Have you seen Richard Loudon's documentary "Enemies Within the Church"? Or Letter to the American Church by Eric Metaxas? We are fighting a spiritual battle. Ryan, you have done an excellent job of sticking to your principles. Thank you! As a former LCMS Lutheran, I applied you and encourage you to not give up. The LCMS is corrupt from the top down. Ultimately the church needs purging. God is purging and cleansing his church. I've heard this from so many random people and seen it for myself that I have to believe it's true. Paul warn us about this. That there would be deceivers within the church. And they are going to be judged for that. Please note this is to prophecy because I'm Lutheran and we don't prophesy and do all sorts of stuff like that. However, in my opinion, just by looking at current events and seeing how things are playing out within the church at large within the next 10 years, there will be no Christian denominations. They will either be a Christian church or everything else. Kind of like in biblical times. so we need to stay focused on Christ and the Scriptures. We also need to stay true to the principles that we know are godly and correct. I still have a lot of connections to people in the LCMS. So I pray for them daily. But I have seen too many church meetings just like the ones you both described. And good on you for recording them! We had an issue at our former church and try to meet with the pastor, but he kept wanting certain people in the meeting that we knew were corrupt and so we said no. he tried to not allow one of the people we asked to be in the meeting as a witness so then we changed it to the head elder (how can you deny that?) And he asked for the congregational president to be there. Fine. As long as our witness was there. Oh but conveniently the President was going to be out of town until after the new year. Well after the new year we moved to Arizona. So much for the meeting. These churches do not do well at all! God bless you both and thank you for your insights and for your true Christian in your interview. It was very enlightening and appreciated.
Re "equity" you may appreciate this. LIFE is dynamic. It includes conflict, disagreement, dissent and struggle. Quote below from Nobel Prize winning poet Octavio Paz, author of Labyrinth of Solitude:
"What sets worlds in motion is the interplay of differences, their attractions and repulsions. Life is plurality, death is uniformity."
So consider: When are we all uniform without dynamic striving, conflict or struggle? When we're DEAD.
The push for uniformity of thought, action and being is thus a denial of Life. And those who seek "all oneness" (on earth) are serving a death cult.
Ryan is correct in that the LCMS publishing house (CPH) seems to spend a lot of effort in publishing for semenarians and pastors...The laity aren't expected to weigh in on spiritual matters. As far as the woke drift--it is real...there are solid pastors ( I have one)....but the Concordia Universities (CUS) and District Leadership seem to want to assuage the wokeness so that the issue will go away. Check out the situation @ Concordia Wisconsin and Paastor Schultz. Pastor Schultz was pushed out (despite tenure) when he called out CUW for their DEI & other wokeness. LCMS leadership wants the controversies to go away without dealing with the spiritual, biblical issues...the CUS generally seek to be recognized as a leading universities that offer all the disciplines as a Harvard or Yale...the Confessional (conservative) laity are regressive and holding the CUS back. Concordia Seward and a new Concordia in Wyoming are exceptions--that actually have a high percentage of students that are practicing Lutherans. The rest have minority Lutheran student bodies--less than 50% of students are Lutheran, let alone LCMS.
Romans
2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
Great interview!
Great interviewer and great guest. They both are trying to help their churches and hold back the evil that wants to take them over. It is wicked and Satan is prowling for people to devour, like the bible says.
Kurt's short story...blast from my past. From my high school weekly literary magazine. Mid 70s, so surprised to hear this now after all these years. On Lutherans: Missouri Synod views drinking beer a sin. Norwegian Lutherans drink beer yet feel bad about it and then the German Lutherans where drinking beer is one of the sacraments.
I have never heard that here. Lutherans aren't allowed to drink beer or wine! We're not Baptists, you know? I had an aunt & uncle who were Baptists and they would have to slyly sneak away to go to the movies. 😂 About drinking, the idea is that you shouldn't get drunk and fall into sin. I have wine sometimes (and I know a glass or two is enough for me). 😀
The Missouri Synod was founded by German Lutherans and there are no prohibitions against alcohol so long as a person is not abusing it.
Member of a large german lutheran family here. Bavarian festivals (beer) started in Germany
LCMS and you are wrong about Missouri Synod viewing drinking beer a sin. I don't know where you got that information but it is incorrect. They are against anything that is not in moderation, but that is the only disqualification they have against beer.
That is false. LCMS members can drink alcoholic beverages of any kind as long as they do so responsibly.
Good ol’ Mobius Moldbug. lol
This was a good interview, I like Ryan a lot.
Teaching by ordained pastors only violates the admonition to not hide your light unnder a bushel...
Diet of Worms 2.0. Modern day Reformation needed in the lcms. Glad I left the lcms for the wels.
In the spring of 2021, I graduated from CUW's Pre-Seminary program (enrolled to study at CTSFW), so my friends and I very much witnessed first-hand the infiltration of progressivism into the synod and its historic institutions, especially those in the classes immediately after me with the exile of Dr. Schulz for exposing the decay. The following year, on October 9 of 2022, I was chrismated into the Orthodox Church. Missouri's ethical atrophy is not what nudged me along into Orthodoxy, it was not some sort of anemic "grass is greener" mentality which propelled my conversion, but I do believe it can be reason enough to cause one to look elsewhere.
St. Paul in his Epistle to the Ephesians describes the Church as a body. A body is necessarily a physical, incarnate thing. There is no such thing as an abstract or invisible body, a body linked solely by ideology. This isn't just due to the physical nature of a body, but also because of who the body belongs to: our dear Christ. If we confess that the body is not physical and incarnate, we say the same thing of that body's head, for how can there be an abstract body united to an incarnate head, or a physical body united to an invisible head? Thus, if we want to keep the Faith and affirm the Incarnation of our God and Savior, we must affirm a physical, visible Church. Our Lord only promises that the gates of hell---that is, sin and heresy---will not prevail against the Church to which He has wedded Himself and taken as His immaculate Bride. Such is not granted to ideologies and "invisible churches" which emanate from and rove through the minds of men.
Through the prayers of St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Boniface, O Christ our God, bring our Lutheran brethren home!
Great history. Great interview.
This is a true spiritual war, in which Satan is hard at work in bringing more and more of the woke ideologies into the body of Christ, be it in the Lutheran faith, the Baptists, Methodist faith. We are witnessing a great apostacy in all denominations as was for told in the Scriptures.
This was totally a surprise conversation. Very interesting and informative. Welcome to the wacky woke world where misdirection is the only direction. Thanks for turning on the light!
This is a real shame and not the church that I grew up in and definitely not what was being taught in the Bible. Jesus was not some Libertarian championing the ideals of capitalism - He was driven by pure compassion for the people - for everyone. I'm not prescribing some specific economic structure as the 'right way' and will gladly say that the problem is monstrously complex, but suggesting that 'Socialism Bad. Capitalism Good. This is the world of God' is insane. This entire conversation is a shameful display of what should be a religion built of the greatest commandment: "Love".
Socialism is bad because it requires coercive power that results in injustice, death, and depravity. Capitalism is good because it allows for freedom of conduct and dignity. Neither approach the perfection of the Kingdom's oikonomia, but one is clearly less evil than the other. You either lack knowledge of fundamental economic and political theory and history, or you lack discernment to map these concerns in the bible. Either way, if you came away with this as your #1 correction, you volunteer that you're not a very good listener and don't really care to understand where folks are coming from. I'm not saying that if you really listened you would agree. I'm saying that if you really listened, you would have something more intelligent and engaging to offer. If you're just another person who boils down the bible to 'Love' and then defines that in a self-referential way, I can go ahead and determine for you that this isn't the podcast for you.
@@plainspokenpod 👍❤  Well said, and that was a great interview!!! Thank you. I hope to be back here again.
@@plainspokenpod Do you seriously think Capitalism doesn't lead to coercive power that results in injustice, death and depravity? Are you going to say that the US is some bastion of fairness where every man is judged on his merits? The distinction here is that the coercive power comes from the money (or the means of production, if you want to view it through that lens) as opposed from directly from a governing body. The rational defense of more socialist policies is not that it's some kind of Utopia waiting to be realized, but that it can result in a society that does better on this front - a society that can be more effective in distributing resource fairly. Compared to raw Capitalism, fairness is something that is explicitly baked out of that system - an eventual Oligarchy is a box feature of Capitalism.
I'm not going to say that any economic system is perfect, or even 'good' for that matter. What I am going to say though is that Capitalism is absolutely not the answer and you need not only open your eyes to people outside your immediate surrounding to see the suffering it creates.
To say 'this system is less evil then that system' is also just intellectually dishonest. There is so, so much nuance in the specifics that if you don't land on, 'it depends...', then you aren't even thinking about the problem. The scope of the problem is massive. The parameters, uncountable. The implementation, beyond complex. There is absolutely no way one could create a model in their head and come to such a conclusion, unless they aren't interested in the actual problem and just want to hear themselves say the words.
You say things a common person might think a smart person might say, but they are not to furthering a discussion or asking honest questions - they are there to deceive. It's the words of a charlatan who wants to just use an established culture to further themselves. And to your credit - it works. There is a whole industry of this kind of stuff, whether it be alternative medicine, sovereign citizen nonsense, or this -- the pinned comment at the top of this video is proof of your success in that space.
@@DrLegitimate
Socialism is stealing and stealing is a violation of the ten commandments.
@@davidhays2846 Har har. The propriety of the church (a voluntary collective) collecting and redistributing funds vs the state (an involuntary grouping) is very different. I think that particular factor completely overturns any comparison between the church in Acts of the Apostles and any modern nation state. Trying to have the Kingdom without Christ at its center will always lead to great horror.
There was a speaker on youtube who said that in the coming decades the Missouri Synod will disappear. The Southern Baptists have gone from 16 million to 14million and only a third of those are active. The fastest growing demographic in religion is the nones.
Only God knows if there will even be a coming age. He will return and when He's here, to judge the living and the dead, that will be the time that this stuff will no longer matter to anyone, anymore. Until then, it is in the hands of the people who cherish Christ, and ultimately in God's hand, and if we put it there, we'll have the greatest ally we could hope for.
@noelhausler2911 And society will continue to get worse and worse. You have no idea what's coming.
Conservative literalist? Doesn't the LCMS forbid women pastors based on a literal reading of Paul's writings? What about I Corinthian 11: 14: "Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him?" What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
I certainly think he should cut his hair, but those two things are on completely different levels.
So some Scripture can be ignored while others must be followed carefully.@@whosweptmymines3956
He was only 19 when the church started trying to intimidate him.
How are those on different levels? Isn’t the Bible the Literal and inerrant word of God
@praywithoutceasing4939 I respectfully disagree; it can be, but so can a lot of other heresy in church doctrine as is given credence by this podcast by male-only ordained clergy such as the LCMS. Both male and female clergy or laypeople can be led astray. Can we please resist the temptation to regard female leadership as the "gateway" for error at every turn. I am an ordained clergywomen in the NALC (North American Lutheran Church). We hold to the moderate view of affirming women in all positions of pastoral leaderships, as we also hold to the Lutheran Confessions from a conservative, theological view in support of the Holy Scriptures.
Just to let you know - It was in the 1840's
Having just found out about your writings and videos, I must ask of your opinion on whether the official LCMS policy on 'Closed Communion" remains a valid, Christian and Biblical doctrine?
Given that closed communion has been the practice of the church throughout history until just recently, I think it would be strange to scoff at it and say that anyone observing it is wrong.
@@plainspokenpod I will hope and pray you will do the research into this form of 'church discipline' and rather nasty offshoot of The Office of the Keys. Early Christians divided themselves over but ONE thing: Jesus as Messiah. Believe in him and you eat dinner and commune. Don't believe, you just get the burger and fries and maybe falafel. Seriously, the early church until the schisms occurred did not have so many ways to be excluded from JESUS' invitation, command and Table. Mankind did the rest, using the Eucharist as another weapon to control the then illiterate masses. And oh, did they. Luther's exposition in the Large Catechism is to be read first and then show me were Jesus' words and teaching taught about excluded any professing believer in Him from HIS gift. Christ communed a man about to betray him, a man about to deny him thrice and the rest? Probably even worse. I'm sad that you kowtow to this ancient apostasy of Jesus' pure gift. And Lutherans are running away from parishes practicing this unkind nonsense and Christian and unbelieving seekers won't even come into worship in such a place, no, not even once. And the LCMS (new AND old) wonders why backdoor exits are in a race with those who join non-denominational Christian churches. Pastors are shepherds, not judges. Jesus DID warn about that wicked act over and over again but hey, power is power and it's how Ugly Religion is the mainstay in so many Country Club Parishes. And at least the Mormons are fully transparent and above-board and have/use the Temple Recommend card to ferret out the faithful from the pretenders.
Reminds me of the Pharisees
@@SandfordSmythe Yes, so sad that legalism yet abounds in the old, Germanic, traditionally orthodox of the LCMS and that the witness and example of her five largest and still growing parishes are tacitly ignored, ridiculed and my parish in Hales Corners, WI has even been accused of being "not Lutheran". They don't understand the back door losses nor why so few seekers even step through their doors in the first place but God will deal with all according to His love, mercy, grace and ultimate Plan. His Plan is always correct even when the mighty-mite leaders disagree.
@@craigborgardt6396 To give the Pharisees credit, someone said that their arguments were intellectual games to keep their minds open in discovering truth. Like modern day Jewish Talmud scholars who argue fiercely about the meaning of biblical sentences, but they will recognize different perspectives and that this is all part of their worship of God. I wish Lutherans could be like that way. I could worship God that way, and be part of that tradition I grew up in.
Wow!
Just left the UMC and considered LCMS but……….Tired of fighting.
problem is the Adversary is putting his agents in all church bodies, keep your "Armour" on
Whatever you do, don't give the devil an edge. Get to church, Methodist, Lutheran, just go to a bible-believing church. What if everyone said, "aw, I don't want to fight this"? We might all be speaking German and maybe some Japanese. 🙃 Seriously, you need God (we all do, whether we realize it or not) and he wants you to know Him and His love. OK, I'm braced. Am I gonna get some proverbial rocks thrown at me? It'd be nice if that doesn't happen.
The "Synod" doesn't control the individual Lutheran Churches. Find a good pastor teaching Jesus' love.
I compliment you both,grow with it,God will have his way,works...sounds like. Some hang ups,that of couriousity.mean works action w/o,self in view..
My dad grew up in the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. It was known as Suomi Synod. His grandparents were married in that church in 1906. It merged into LCA in 1962. LCA subsequently merged into ELCA in 1988. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran_Church_in_America
I would love to see you do this for the Church of the Brethren. A couple years ago churches split off and formed a new denomination called the Covenant Brethren Church. Many churches are currently looking at leaving as the church of the Brethren continues not to address human sexuality in any real way. The Church of the Brethren also is affiliated with a left wing group called On Earth Peace. This also is causing issues with the more conservative/traditional Brethren churches.
Oh, no. I think that's the church one of my kids and his wife go to. He hasn't said anything about it which leads me to believe their church hasn't given in. I hope and pray that's the case.The left will try to infect everyone with their evil. So sickening, isn't it?
My great grand parents,,landed 1855 or so don't forget ALCA..almost..And Concordia
Perhaps the Ben Nevis emigration in 1854? Interested to know.
This was/ is a conservative group last I heard.
The left is infiltrating, like it says in the title of this video. I don't believe they'll get very far. Most congregants would not be happy about this. ANTIFA can't bring anyone down unless they allow them to. I don't think the people are willing to give in to them. I hope people are praying for the LCMS bcs, Heaven forbid, it could be their church next on the hit list.
That has been its reputation but this interview is showing differently.
?? Let me try and rephrase this. ??? ?????? ?????????????? ?????????????????????????? Being against something is not the same as being for something. Or Someone.
the institutional church is so sick. "come out of her my people".
Strange, a liberal Methodist condemning the conservative LCMS. Confused long hair young boy.
"There is no justice in 'social justice'." Sounds like a Glenn Beck quote. You're absolutely correct when you write about your interviewee "He would easily be associated with the reactionary right." You weren't familiar with the Wisconsin Synod. Here's one tidbit to meditate on: A dear friend who's gone on to Glory was raised Wisconsin Synod Lutheran. She married the son of an LCMS pastor. After that she was refused Holy Communion in her own WS home church whenever they visited. Will the GMC invite all to an open Holy Communion table?
I imagine it will. I haven't heard any voices clamoring to close the table. Allie Beth Stuckey does a very decent Prager U video on social justice, in which she makes the case pretty clearly than social justice isn't justice.
@@plainspokenpod Dennis Prager U? You cannot be serious!
And there is no Gospel in “social gospel.”
“They don’t know how to navigate this” How about the Scriptures?
I don't think you can blame the right for that, but I do know that the LCMS wants you to know/believe the sacrament is the body and blood of Christ and that you need to come to communion with a repentant heart..I don't know why the WELS didn't allow them both to take communion, but they must've had a reason. I'd like to know what the reason is.
My Orthodox priest used to be an ELCA pastor. He saw the signs of decay and came home to the Ancient Faith.
I thought this was going to be about the "progressive infiltration of the LCMS," instead we get one guy's run-on rant about his woes with elements of the synod.
Should he have split himself into a panel?
Woes with
progressive infiltration.
Totally. Read the church’s account. He is trying to become infamous, but it’s not working. He associated with supremacist and the church against it. Period.
Woke means awakened to the needs of others. To be well informed, compassionate thoughtful and kind. Eager to make the world a better place for all people. Awaken your soul Be Woke
No, it doesn't. It tramples on people's deeply-held Christian beliefs and those are not up for compromise.
So what, we are called to be Christians. You can have woke, just not able to sustain it with Christianity. Choose wisely.
Yes it does. Jesus was woke; he wasn’t full of hate, misogyny, racism, and disgust for anyone that Father God created. He hates all sin, including yours and mine, but loves everyone and doesn’t want anyone to suffer, which is a result of man’s fall, our fallen world. But Jesus’s death on the cross took of that for all eternity and we need only receive his grace and walk in his ways with the help of the Holy Spirit. Prejudice and hate are rooted in fear, and as the Bible says, ‘Perfect love cast out fear.”
@margorice1 What a nonsensical jumble of bible-ish sounding things. Jesus was certainly disgusted enough to insult those who denigrated the house of worship and whip them out.
Jesus did not come to keep us from suffering, but assured us we would suffer, especially as believers.
He also would be considered a misogynist by modern standards since the bible is the word of God including women not being pastors, he called a woman a dog, saying we should be modest and cherish life gifted to us in the way of children.
Stop inventing your own version of Jesus and read your bible.
Your videos are primarily negative. Why not do a positive review of Stedfast Baptist Church past, Dillon Awes. I believe you would find a kindred spirit.
I do my share of negative stuff, but there's also plenty of positive. Check out the piece I put out just this morning.
I don't have anything against Baptists and often appreciate Baptist witness. Even so, I won't be spending much time making connections with Baptists anytime soon. I'm invested in the project of shoring up a pan-Methodist identity. The cause just doesn't overlap, at this point, although I hope in the future to participate in a broader conversation. Thank you for your exhortation.
Seriously? This is the guy you got to represent the LCMS? You have to do better research before you choose your guests. This was NOT an accurate description of what happened at all. He also provided a history of Lutheranism in America that was not very well described.
Do you know of any particulars that he spoke wrongly about?
Without clarification, I believe Shanna is baselessly smearing people.
Try and find an LCMS pastor willing to even speak publicly on this topic! They won't.
I didn't listen to him as a representative of the LCMS but rather, I saw him as a young man who had a very strange experience within the Synod.
The Walker Church in Minneapolis is very Open and uses teaching of Buddhism and verses from the Koran in their services.
That is not open that is corrupted by human sin
The “ELCA basically having satanic rituals on the altar?” is shockingly rude, completely incorrect and very unbrotherly in Christ.
I think the whole point is that he doesn’t acknowledge y’all as brothers because he thinks you have made a mockery of the faith.
@@plainspokenpod I am not the ELCA, and if that is how Christians speak of others, with judgement and mockery, I doubt Jesus is pleased.
Again, you're not understanding. Neither he nor I acknowledge them as Christians. They are doing minstrel shows pretending to be Christians. If you think Jesus takes offense to people pointing out when others make a mockery of the faith he died to build, well, you're reading a different bible than me.
It’s good Jesus gets to decide who is a Christian.
@@plainspokenpod
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried. And the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures and ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. And He wil come again with glory to judge both the living and the dead, whose kingdom will have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And I believe in one holy Christian and apostolic Church, I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins, and I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
Is that plain spoken enough for you?
Large predated small
RETURN TO THE 1962 MISSALE ROMANUM, OR PERISH!
May God lead the LCMS to be an Easter Church and live the evangelical Faith. May they leave the country club Christianity to the light of the living Christ. God bless the ELCA
10 Symptoms of the WOKE mind
1. You read books and don’t burn them.
2. You embrace science.
3. You are willing to change your mind when new information becomes available
4. You understand most issues are not black and white
5. You believe in true equality for all people
6. You like to share
7. You embrace cooperation
8. You respect other’s rights
9. You believe culture and the arts have values
10 You care for the planet and all its life
This is amusing.
Here is my point by point refutation.
1. How many books by Rousas Rushdoony are there are in public school libraries?
2. Hi, my name is Virus Lockdowns, Lab Leak. It is dangerous and unhealthy to go to funerals, gatherings, and church services, but BLM riots are AOK.
3. See above.
4. Does this apply to pro LGBTQ issues too? That might make for an....interesting discussion.
5. What does this even mean?
6. Cool, i would like you to share NPR, the university system, grant money and funding for K-12 education.
7. How often do you cooperate with Pro Life advocates?
8. Does this respect extend to my right of free association?
9. 100% agree.
10. Tell that to all the dead birds around wind mill farms and strip mining via slave labor in the congo to get all those juicy solar panel materials.
check, check, check, check, HELL NO, check, check, check, check, check. Guess I'm 9/10 Woke lol
I only read the first three and I'm thinking what utter crap you're spewing. Woke means *communist* in little pieces at a time until you are acclimated to it. And there's no changing the mind of communists bcs they are the Most Intolerant of all. Science? Yes, but some scientists have been bought & paid for by Soros. Your sadistic group would burn the bible. Hitler tried to and so did other despots and murderers. "You don't burn books." 🤣🤣🤣
@noelhausler
1. Who burns books these days?
2. Woke cultists reject science and the spirit of it. They believe in groupthink and bring up science whenever it's convenient as a rhetorical device.
3. Woke cultists are so closed-minded and intolerant that they give the medieval Catholic church a run for it's money. It's reheated Marxism. Marxism killed millions upon millions.
4. This is not an attribute of the woke cult, this is just exercising reason. You believe in ideology, not reason.
5. Except those who you disagree with.
6. No, you believe in wealth redistribution. Big difference
7. Whatever the hell that means
8. No, you reject the constitution, where our rights are framed. Those of your ilk, if they had their way, they would rewrite most of the constitution.
9. This is not exclusive to Marxists at all
10. This is not exclusive to Marxists at all
Everything you just said contradicts alot of your own points also. You presume that those who disagree with you are stupid, hate the environment, hate the arts, are anti-science, they burn books, etc etc etc. That's pretty judgmental you bigot. I thought you believed in love and tolerance?
You're lucky anyone even responded to this, it's so bad. If I didn't care about you I would've ignored you. I hope you leave your cult.
I don’t understand how anyone can identify a Christian, a follower of Christ, and not be woke.