The Only Plane That Could Beat The F-22 Raptor
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- The Only Plane That Could Beat The F-22 Raptor
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Even in a competition between giants, there is always going to be a party that loses out. Such is the story of Northrop Corporation’s YF-23 aircraft, of which only two prototypes were made, lovingly known as the Black Widow II and Grey Ghost. Today most people have forgotten about this phenomenal aircraft, and even those who remember it have placed it as a footnote of history, as the aircraft that lost out to the mighty Lockheed Martin’s YF-22, now known as the F-22 Raptor. But, the aircraft that Northrop Corporation produced, was anything but unforgettable! Today we will dig up the past and tell you why the YF-23 was a masterpiece of modern engineering.
#jet #fighter #f-22 #f-23 #yf-23 #yf-22
If they're showing it to you. They've got something better they're not showing you.
I'm sure it's a few nice dinners, and maybe a round of golf. ; )
well I think the enemy would know how advanced they are, and wouldn't try to attack the US
This is so true. The government doesn't show their secret plans to anyone sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I hope. My faith in government has diminished as of late.
@@Damnmac1 fair, I'm with you bro.
wow and that was in the 80s imagine how today's classified Jets look like.
Honestly! I'm surprised the F15 series of jets looked so modern in the 80s
@@artemis3829 Ya right? me too.
Just imagine the stealth bomber was made in the 60s!!!. It was classified until Johnson slipped up and said something in a press conference.
@@stevenrogersfineart4224 there a video for it?
@@stevenrogersfineart4224 I believe you're thinking of the A-12/SR-71/YF-12 aircraft.
The actual dates of the prototype development were in the late 80's and early 90's. I know as I worked on developing SW for the YF-22 prototype. If I recall correctly the talk was that the YF-23 had more newer HW technology, while the YF-22 was using what was characterized as older but "proven HW technology". The rumor is that the YF-22 won over the YF-23 due to certain political decisions made involving where each plane would be manufactured. The teams that were working the SW for both prototypes were dedicated and talented. Watching this video provided a remarkable flashback to a time almost 30 years ago and membership on a team of great, talented and very sharp people. Evidently from reports the YF-22 went on to exceed expectations. If any of the TRW SW team read this comment
my greetings and well wishes to all!
That's awesome mate, wish I could sit with you once for a cup of coffee and hear some forgotten stories :)
FF23 had contrails coming off the wings. F22 didn't.
At least that's the way I remember it.
I realize this means nothing.
Thank you for this
Unfortunately Technology cannot solve one big problem - get rid of the politics and make decisions based hard facts and proper military needs.
You probably knew my dad Gene Jaeger who worked on the SW his whole life until retirement.
The first time I ever saw the YF-23, my reaction was “was this thing made on Earth?”
Because I always thought it kinda looked out of this world
Most 6th gen fighter concepts look like the yf-23. It was well ahead of it's time.
You mean Most 6th gen "concept arts" look like the YF-23. The Actual F-3 Prototype looks like the F-22
@@michaeld1170 concept art and mockups. F-3 i believe is the only exception so far.
well the Tempest doesn't look like the YF-23, at least in my eyes, the wing actually looks like its from the F-16XL.
I think you're mostly referring to the French led FCAS, which does look like it borrowed the YF-23's tail but I think it also took elements from the F-22, particularly the nose and forward fuselage.
It's the camera angle that made it look like the 6 gen planes
What the hell?!
Wrong.
Most 6th gen fighter concepts so far are flying wings, and look nothing like the YF-23.
Fun fact: My dad was one of the people on the team building these! The YF-23 is such a cool craft. It's a shame it never saw mass production. But as any sci-fi nerd knows, rare prototypes are always clearly superior.
I would like to say thank you. Your dad help make Something amazing
@@kmoss9521 That is so fucking cool
My dads best friend nephews brother in law helped too
@whatz my name blah blah blah, you know everything and everybody is wrong right?
@whatz my name yea Russia Air Fomrce technology is so ahead of us, tell me how many su 57 are currently active? Oh say what? Wow 6 whole jets Rofk
"Myself, along with 150 of my closest friends, were the only 8 people involved in the YF-23 development project. Beautiful, capable aircraft."
Tom, don't you agree that just because a few suits in Washington picked option 1 instead of option 2 is hardly an excuse to just dump [until only 'moments ago'] classified Intel so openly and *ahem* freely? Lot of the date here really should have been kept quit... or... in the dark// im an enthusiast myself, but somethings just DONT, warrant, (sigh) talking about...
So did this jet have the same radar signature as the F 22?
@@cjaymckay8806 ...classified...
They said it looked like a spider on the radar and has less RCS the the yf-22,, in sure the F-22 is classified tho
"four 500-pound air-to-ground bombs"
*picture of a nuclear bomb
Yeah the pictures were a bit strange Generally
@@buntfalke1235 lol yeah, I was like, is that a fat man abomb?
Why the hell did they de-classify? Now the Chinese will copy it and make it
@@WycliffStudios Because the US has something far superior and doesn't care if China copies it, probably.
@@Codster121 you should care. Chinese are saving up on Billions by bypassing the research and development costs
I'm a die-hard F-14 Tomcat fan.. That won't ever change.. Then I saw the YF-23 Black Widow and it was love at first sight.. What an incredible aircraft.. Best ever since the Tomcat and a worthy successor for all attributes.. May we see this gorgeous beast reincarnate and take to the skies soon.. 👍🏻
I worked on F-4s C and D versions. There were a couple of E versions on base but not my flight.
@Toora Varun It looks like they stuffed it in there so they can't get it out
I flew with a pilot out of Hawthorne Airport that worked for Northrop flying Gulfstream's for executives. He told me directly that the F23 was so advanced they took it dark and absolutely used the technology and developed it into secrets projects. I asked him for details but all he would say was "Don't worry its out there" Oh and this was 2014
They never released the RCS of the YF-23 or its speed in supercruise which was much faster than the YF-22. The DOD was still upset over the B2 being so far over budget.
@@teddyballgame4823 Both aircraft were the best ever created but F22 was cheaper and it works. But the F23 was the best. Like do you want to pay the money for Lebron James or James Harden? Do you want good...or the best
Hawthorne Airport out of Hawthorne, CA? That's where I learned to fly.
I'm not surprised...theyll probably turn it into the 6th Gen fighter
It would almost disappoint me that the YF-23 would be the base for a 6th gen. Nothing against it, but I would almost expect an AI assisted design. There's been quite a bit of advancement in engineering since the mid 80s....
A personal heritage fact, my great uncle Robert, was one of the 10 men that made up what was Northrop's "Black Fox Committee" which were the individuals responsible for designing and developing the "Flying Wing" which has now evolved into the B-2 stealth bomber
When I read about these two, Popular Science I believe, back in the day, I thought the YF-23 was a slam dunk.
I remember when they were in competition. The F-23 was my favorite.
You old as hell
Same here
Same here. I admire the Raptor, but the Black Widow had something about it akin to the Tomcat = character. The Raptor is quite a marvel but there was always something "cookie cutter" about it. I miss the "personality" some of our fighter jets had. The F-23 has that - of all the 5th Gen fighters. Even the F-35 isn't as "sexy". And I'm a big fan of that aircraft. Tactically though, the F-22 is no joke. I can only imagine what we DON'T know about our current and future generation of fighter jets.
It was my favorite too!
i worked on the black widow, the airforce outlawed the name
Starscream be like : *I must get out of here as quick as possible*
na hes like i have to copy this
@@djanmasked7131 knowing damn well that'd be true
rofl that's pretty accurate XD
Nah, he ain't be like tryna get up outta there ya know. He be all like "This be dope".
Both Pav1 and Pav2 were left outside uncovered for years at Northrop's test facility. They needed fully restored before they were donated to the museums. It's sad to think that the black widow 2 was such an incredible machine lost to the F22 simply by politics. For anyone interested, there is about an hour long documentary on the development of the YF-23 program on RUclips that's not hard to find if you just search for "YF 23 black widow II" posted by Western Museum of Flight. It's really in depth and lots of interviews and in office video recorded during the initial design phase all the way to first flight and getting that heart crushing call that they had lost. I highly recommend it.
I had the pleasure of working at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis, back in the 80's when this program was started. I worked on the F-15 program, but right next to me were engineers who were a part of the YF-23 team. All top secret aspects of the design was done in what is called the black hole. This was such an exciting time to be a part of the aviation industry. We were so confident that we had the better plane, and would win the production contract. There were several issues with the YF-22 that were made known, and several pilots did not want to fly the aircraft. There was a lot of politics involved in the final decision, and I think the military got a good plane in the YF-22, but they did not get the best plane for mission. I hope we see this plane come back online at some point, and not by another country. America is still superior in military aircraft design and manufacturing!!!
I worked on the avionics for the YF-23 aircraft at McDonnell Douglas from 1987 until about 1990 or 1991. It was really sad when the YF-22 was selected. At the time, we heard that the selection was based upon the fact that McDonnell Douglas already had several military build or rebuild contracts, including (but not limited to) the F/A-18, F-15E, and AV-8B aircraft. The government chose the YF-22 because they wanted to spread their contracts to other companies and McDonnell Douglas / Northrup / Grumman already had enough government contracts.
It's been more than 30 years since those days. Thank you for the opportunity to walk down memory lane.
What was your favorite part of the aircraft?
Do you think that its genuinely superior to the F-22, and that they really picked it for business purposes? I would love to hear your thoughts! (:
@@MultiCaiser They picked the F22 because McDonnel Douglas already had several aircraft contracts with the government and they wanted to spread the wealth, so to speak. The F23 outperformed the F22 in nearly every way. The government wanted an advanced fighter, but they settled on an upscaled F/A18 and slapped the F22 nameplate on it.
After MDC put billions of their own money into developing those aircraft prototypes and then lost the contract to build them, all of the employees associated with the project had to find other projects within the company. When MDC started streamlining itself for the Boeing purchase, they sought out all of the people associated with the YF-23 project, wherever they went within the company, and they laid them off.
I don't remember what my favorite part was anymore. I was involved in the avionics software development. The avionics software flew in the flight simulator before there was a prototype for it to fly on. That was 1987 to 1990 or 1991.
@@hazard3483 Private company? MDC was publicly traded. YF23 wasn't my first project at the company, and it wasn't my last.
@@paulswarthout9967 nah the YF 23 could not beat the f22 raptor...even without some political influence the F22 raptor still beats the YF 23 I'm every way when it comes to agility, performance, stealth, situational awareness in real time....even though the YF 23 was technologically advanced its never as fast or as agile as the f22 raptor...the f22 raptor had been proved to be better since it was put to a test against several F15's
True story. Was just about to make that comment.
Something about hat YF-23 is so mesmerizing. My favorite aircraft to fly in Ace Combat. 😍
It looks incredible watching it in replay mode. My favorite plane by far.
Except for its abysmal spw choice
Except when WIZARD FUCKING SHOWS UP WITH THEM
@@zeus28frenzy and then you turn off the console after 10 retries 😂
@@zeus28frenzy 😂😂😂
13:42
"That time I got reincarnated as a Japanese jet fighter"
good anime waifu backstory
Now it has the power of a raptor and anime on its side!
they are getting 30 years old tech
lmao i could see that as a real iesekai short novel published by kodansha
Not just the YF-23. This scenario has repeated itself over and over, meaning the best is not always chosen. The Army had the same situation with the AH-56 Cheyenne Attack Helicopter that was eventually axed. Years of ahead of it's time, it was (in the early 70s) the most advanced attack helicopter in history.
YF-23: the jet that looks like it came from a Star Wars movie
F-94C Starfire
Well who do you think designed them probably some starwars nerds
Or Macross Plus. (:
@ Cognitive dissonance in full effect, I see...
I knew about the YF-23 when I was really young. We had a flight simulator on our home desktop and you could choose between all of the active fighter jets with TWO concept aircraft: YF-22 and YF-23. I ALWAYS played as the YF-23 because I thought it looked so cool. I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank you!
Sounds like Jetfighter 2. Originally that game didn't have the F-22, only the F-23, 14, 16 and 18. When the YF-22 was announced the ATF winner, an expansion disk for the F-22 was released. Based on my experience with Jetfighter 1 and 2, I'm going to guess that the flight characteristics of the F-22 and F-23 were very similar.
@@winternow2242 Yes!!!! It was Jetfighter 2! Man, I loved that game. And you’re right, the F-22 and the YF-23 handled the same, I just liked how the YF-23 looked. The F-14 was my absolute favorite, and as a kid, something about the YF-23 reminded me of the F-14. Thanks for jogging my memory!
@@ryelor is jet fighter 2 free?
nice
The US Air Force held a competition between the prototypes of the YF-22 and YF-23. The YF-22 won most dog fighting metrics and was the more maneuverable fighter. The F-23 was slightly stealthier and faster, but less maneuverability and had carried poor payload. That is why the F-22 won.
Slightly? kid i have heard some of the RCS data lol, 1.8 mach compared to the raptors 1.5 is far from slightly, and over 1.8 is classified, so it actually could of went faster. The yf-23 was able to supercruise without afterburner while still in only prototype. And it was much more stealthy, and its funny because it was bigger. The f-22 didnt hide its rear heat signature as well. The rear tails on the yf-23 a single tail is about the size of an f-35 wing alone, and they move on a huge axis, giving this almost equal manueverability to 2d vectoring. Also the yf-23 was more manueverable at higher speeds. All the f-22 is is an f-15 formate evolved to its final form, and that has come to an end. If we would of went with this program we would be so far ahead of everyone else in fighter developement. Also the yf-23 has bar non probably the best rear visibility ive ever seen on a fighter. The raptors is good but not that good, and the su-57s flat out sucks.
Couldn't the YF-23 hold a greater payload? It's just that its missiles had to be stacked. Additionally, the YF-22 was able to do a live-fire demonstration which the YF-23 couldn't
Slightly lol
@@profo4544 what dB was the return?
@@trumptookthevaccine1679 Well, i can tell you one was better broadband stealth, while the other was more of a mix of both. Northrops better broadband stealth won them the b-2 over lockheeds design. Northrop simply had a more aggressive approach in testing super cruise speeds while Lockheed was more aggressive in maneuverability.
But, overall, the yf-23 was id say like. 30% better all around. Pav 2, with the ge yf120s could reach mach 2.00, reach 50 thousand feet, MAX AOA/Min airspeed 60 degrees.
Whenever I see a fighter jet my brain immediately goes into "Where do they keep the fuel?" mode.
Almost everywhere. It's literally flying fuel tank.
My Dad's best friend was an executive with Northrop (passed away in 1986). He told me anything you see on t.v. is 20 year old technology. Anyway, there was a rumor that during one day of the competition the pilot of the YF 23 was not told that they were to do high G turns in front of the people evaluating the planes. The YF 22 pilot did the maneuvers. The rumor is that this had something to do with the total score.
Also the yf-22 shoot missiles, the yf-23 didn't, but overall for me, Black Widow II & Grey Ghost were the most Advance Aircraft ever created. I don't know if you ever watched this, "western museum of flight yf-23 black widow II".
I've always found it really interesting to think about how the government has secret technology decades ahead of what the public has.
@@zephirothstryfe0713 there's probably classified things that are much better
I can believe that this sort of things goes on.
So your dad's best friend never got to see the YF-23 fly. But i believe what he said. What we see today are what's the government has allowed us to see. And most of them are 40, 50 years behind the tech that we have at this present moment.
It's been a bit, but I know the Team that designed and built the YF-23, had to be heartbroken..... If any of them see this, just know you didn't lose and millions of people would back me up. All of you killed it!!!
I saw the YF-23 Gray Ghost in flight in 2004 over an NC bombing range. They were pitching it for the B1 Lancer position of tactical bombing IIRC. Didn't win the contract, too expensive, but definitely hit the performance marks. I watched the Black Widow fly from one horizon, to the other horizon, before I ever heard it. So much faster than sound.
Are you sure about those dates? I'm pretty sure that both airplanes were no longer flying by then. The USAF museum got their YF-23 in 2000. The Global Security site claims that both jets were in storage until 1996, and then transferred to museums. I've seen pictures of PAV2 at the museum at Zamperini that were dated as 1997.
@@winternow2242 woopsie, looks like I saw Ghost actually. I saw PAV2 in 2004
@@winternow2242 "In 2004, Northrop Grumman proposed a YF-23-based bomber to meet a USAF need for an interim bomber, for which the FB-22 and B-1R were also competing.[40][41] Northrop modified aircraft PAV-2 to serve as a display model for its proposed interim bomber."
I got to see the darker of the two prototypes when it was in an outdoor museum in California. Immensely grateful for the experience -- I don't know if it's still there, as it was in quite a state of disrepair when I saw it, but I'd love to drop by again sometime. Even more a beautiful aircraft in person.
When your fighter jets are so good the only one that could beat your best is the other one made by you
A su-27 could probably beat an F22, maybe even a typhoon if it has the right pilot
There are multible better planets than the f22. But in different regards
A Rafale defeated an f22 it was in a training you can look for it on RUclips and I think a typhoon did it too.
This is especially true when video is also made by you 😁
@@ivanlazarevic78 haha
The Butterfly tail was called Ruddervators. According to my best friends Dad, who worked at Northrop for several Decades. RIP Hector, I really enjoyed listening to your Jazz Records.
Can you share some of his collection best songs 😅 please
The Ruddervators remind me of the F-4 Stabilators just inverted.
The canted ruddervators reduced its RCS significantly.
The F-22's huge vertical
tails shone like big radar beacons.
@@thamwaikeong5885 So the F-22 and F-35 both suck in the aft section. I guess that's one way to keep them in the game.
@@thamwaikeong5885 You wouldn't happen to be involved with the WARTHOG DEFENSE CHANNEL would you?
Remarkable narration. Always fascinated by aviation engineering.
One of the F-23's is at Hawthorne Airport , Ca., just a few miles from LAX, which is where I got to see it up close.Awesome acft. Hated to see it lose like the F-20 Tigershark. Another awesome acft.
Never knew this, and that's where I learned to fly. One reason to revisit my hometown.
1986 f-22 is 35 years old oh my god can't even imagine how hard they'd be laughing in classified
Years since Introduction into service...here's just a few.
F-18 - 38 years, F-16 - 42 years, F-15 - 45 years, and the A-10 - 44 years, B-52 - 66 years
@@mboiko yes it is just fascinating
@@timmyasem5603 I agree...hard to believe even the F-35, had its first flight 14 years ago.
@@mboiko and its not even the best
@@mboiko B-52 is one of the greatest planes ever created. As a student of history i love that in 15 years there'll be bombers whose development dates back to WW2 flying alongside f35's and any possible future planes.
the YF-23 was such a beautiful design. such a shame the united states could not build both the YF-23 and the F-22. WOW just imagine.
Imagine the cost...of building 2 nearly redundant airplanes when we only needed one of them.
They did build both. They are hiding it in Area 51.😁
@@SuperVideoman71 And Elvis takes it for a spin every month to keep current.
@@winternow2242 lol
This should have been chosen over the yf-22. Looks more stealthy and a total looker to boot
Not only is the yf23 an engineering marvel it’s an art masterpiece. Such a gorgeous jet to look at.
I actually saw this craft yesterday for the first time in Dayton. If the museum weren't about to close when I saw it, I would have spent more time admiring it.
I think the future would be different, if only the YF-23 were chosen.. The YF-23 was...alive🙃 my gratitude for the people who made her..
* the present
@@paddor agreed, an important correction 👍
i would love to see this masterpiece take to the skys again
YES SO WOULD ALOT OF PEOPLE
@@mljohnson2721 actually America already operates it . They just kept it for right time.
I was working as an engineer at McDonnell Douglas at the time this was in development. I quit to become a high school teacher shortly before the competition which it unfortunately lost. But I always loved this design, it's a very sexy jet.
I remember seeing the F-22 at an air show hover on its tail like 50-70 feet off the ground and then move from one end of the field to the other. Only possible due to the vectored thrust. The next gen better keep this in mind.
Hovering on its tail would make a nice target?
@@michaelrostine8033 absolutely. And it looks dope
LMAO what an antiquated method of fighting that doesn't even exist anymore? Yea no thanks I would rather have my billions in taxpayer money actually go to effective defenses, not something to wow people at an airshow...
@@CrossWindsPat well those capabilities go hand in hand. Impressing a crowd goes together with efficiently killing the enemy like cheese & crackers.
It’s a shame that you didn’t quote Paul Metz on his opinion on the YF-23 vs F-22 as he’s the only person ever to have flown both.
Spoiler: he thought the YF-23 was better
I think the main difference came to armament load. YF-23 would be 2x or 3x more expensive per rocket/bomb.
@@MrVeryfrost Perhaps, but at the end of it, the whole point was stealth. The F-22 isn't a dog fighting specialist, it's supposed to be stealthy. If the other plane was better at those aspects why not pick it?
@@MuShinnen cost, maintenance, ease of manual of arms, gas mileage, weapons carried, and so on. A lot more goes into a military aircraft than its ability to fight or stealth
Its was actually said by Metz, who did indeed think the YF-23 was far superior, that the only reason the YF-22 won the contract was because Northrop relied solely on their engineers to sell the aircraft where Lockheed hired an entire sales team to handle the selling points of the YF-22. He said the engineers sounded exactly like you would think engineers would sound when pitching their aircraft which was the use of terms and stats that the customer does not understand vs the sails and marketing team of the YF-22 knowing exactly what to say to make their fighter sound superior.
@@moonasha I know what goes into a military aircraft, however when your main criteria is literally a specialization in one field you should be picking the option that is superior within said field. The amount of weapons the F-22 carries are not pertinent to it's main roll of stealth. The YF-23 should have been chosen based on the merits of it's performance in the role for which the planes were originally designed for in the first place.
I spent many hours sitting in a P19 firetruck watching the YF22 and YF23 prep for their flyoff. YF23 was always my favorite.
Lol man I had some best sleep in my life in that truck.
@@frank8534 lol! You sound like you work in the railroad. I'm a locomotive diesel mechanic/machinist and I get some excellent sleep at work lol
The US Airforce never had "long range missile sniping" in their requirements and final decision on picking the YF-22.
"Better dog fighting (close range air to air engagement) and better low speed manouverbility" was the deciding factor.
In gross retrospect the YF-23 would have been superior to the YF-22 in "fast lomg range missile sniper."
In an ideal flight formation it would be F-23 missile snipers being escorted by F-22 dogfighters.
And the worst part is the the yf23 still had amazing maneuverability and would be able to dance with some of the best out there. It had higher wing loading and designed aerodynamic instabilities that kept it right up there. Sure it wont win a rate fight against an f22 but it also wouldn't be detected as soon as the f22 lol. Also another factor everyone seems to ignore about thrust vectoring is that it washes your energy away pretty quickly since the vectoring is forcing a higher AoA. So in drawn out fight if the vectoring aircraft doesn't get the shot off first, it can actually lose out to a conventional craft that can manage its energy better. (Of course that is rare and the advantages of thrust vectoring in an actual dogfight is superior 99% of the time. But you also have to think about the weight and complexity thrust vectoring now brings to the table.)
YF-23: I'm perfect, and stronger than F-22
F-22: And this is to go even further beyond....!!!!!!!!
@whatz my name So out of curiosity, how much does the Russian government pay you to write such drivel?
@whatz my name If you even knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't be allowed to talk about it. The fact that you are allowed to talk about it = well........We got nothing to worry about based on your "report."
It's been decades but surely the YF-23 design can be used for newer models in the future (?).
yep
@I didn't Wipe my ass after I poop I'm sure that's right: requests for proposals, at least three bids, etc. Which doesn't always prevent price fixing. I liked the F-23 though. Sadly I don't have enough money to buy some and donate them to Canada. :-P
The editor picking any image off of google like: Eh this looks like a 500lb bomb I guess.
*picks picture of wwii fat man nuclear bomb*
Nicholas Jensen I just saw that right before I saw your comment
Same
well everybody aren't into weapons like us so its acceptable i guess
@@anomaly_echelon7994 well to a point, but if your making something like this for said euthastics then come on you could at least get it right. i assume without trying if you typed into google 500lb bomb you get get a picture of a 500lb bomb to use.
The video is very odd too he'll be talking about the 23 and showing a completely different plane. Theres a bit where they show a 117 and it doesn't have any relation to what they are talking about
3:05 "Germany's Hugo Junkers patented his own wing-only air transport concept in 1910," oh yes Jack Northrop
Dont care.. doesnt matter anymore.
Germany lost. Spoils of war.
Thats the rules of war.. always has been
Always will be.
Its not theirs anymore.
Germany has LOST
XD
Can't wait to see this one flying :-)
Specs are sound, and I hate politics, so in case Japan builds it, now that will be an interesting twist to the story! :-D
YES THAT WILL BE SOMETHING TO BEHOLD THE UPGRADES AFTER THE YEARS OF STANDING IN THE WINGS U MITE SAY
looks like japan, is building it with the help of India, that also needs a new plane, and has some pride issiues, they want the best plane ewer built, the YF23
Thank you. I know this aircraft through HAWX 2 many years ago. Has been my favorite fighter design ever since. Just beautiful
Some points:
1.) The only reason the YF-22 won, from the horse's mouth itself, was then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield commenting that because the United States Navy was interested in the YF-22 and because the YF-22 was slightly easier to navalize for carrier operations, it was selected over the YF-23. After the YF-22 won, however, the U.S. Navy dropped any interest and pursuit of having a YF-22 fleet.
2.) The inline and recessed exhaust channels of the YF-23 were not only more stealthy from radar, but also dissipated more heat than the YF-22. Ceramic tiles were lined in the exhaust recess to help with heat management. Basically, this means that the YF-23 is less susceptible to infrared/heat seeking missiles than the YF-22.
3.) The top speed of the YF-23 is still classified, but it was reportedly faster than the YF-22. By some margin. The insinuation and hints lead it to being nearly or perhaps even a Mach 3+ capable aircraft in some cases.
4.) The YF-23 had cost-cutting measures involved in its design, such as utilizing F-15E components and landing gear. Which means, realistically, the YF-23 would have been cheaper to operate and have more parts commonality than the F-22A currently has. More parts commonality means better logistics which means lower costs and easier maintenance.
I met Steve Smith moments before his interview about the YF-23. One additional fact I'd include, even if both planes had their engines off, the YF-23 had a MUCH smaller radar signature.
@@davidrox4591
"the YF-23 had a MUCH smaller radar signature."
Actually, thanks for saying that. I actually forgot about that. Of course all the hard testing data of the RCS and with the various radars that were used is all still classified, but it matches up with what people have been able to figure out using the math and the airframe design of the YF-23. I mean, those engines and outlets are recessed in the fuselage - and engine fan blades and nozzles are notoriously bad for low radar cross section and all that is rather hidden on the YF-23. Plus, it does have more minimalistic lines and less for radar to bounce off of.
From the way Donald Rumsfield talked after all this happened, it sounded like the YF-23 was heavily, heavily favored... And then when the Navy expressed interest and that meant more could be ordered (bringing the price down), the YF-22 was deemed the winner. The problem is, as soon as the YF-22 won, the Navy dropped the idea and offer like a hot potato and went on to throw billions into the A-12 with nothing to show for it. If I was a cynical man, and I sure am, I'd guess someone in the Navy probably got a new vacation home for "reasons" courtesy of Lockheed and it just so happened to line up with the YF-22 winning.
...Hey, Lockheed has done worse. Remember the F-104 Starfighter fiasco with Canada and the West German Air Force? What they did there was literally criminal. Although not nearly as many went to jail as should have...
The yf23 was less agile. The usaf make the right choice in not put "all the fruits in the stealth basket".
@@AaaBbb-ff1pn Thrust vectoring is the only reason why, which took more than a decade to get to work reliably at all. It's still considered a weak point. First flight for both planes was in 1990. F-22 didn't enter service until 2002. The F-23 could have been in mass production by the mid 90s. The vast majority of "dog fights" these days happen beyond VFR. Which means the advantage the majority of the time goes to the YF-23.
If you factor in cost, the YF-23 is much more bang for the buck. The thrust vectoring engine is crack rock expensive, which is one of the chief reasons why the F-35 and F-22 cost as much as a small country.
@@davidrox4591 considering the difference of weight,distribuition of mass i still think f22 to be more agile than yf23. I'm not saying that yf23 is a bad plane,but it take some steps from the traditional fighter role. They want a dominance fighter and get everything to be sure it will be superior. Even wvr ,just in case, stealth or bvr fail. I don't see any fail in usaf judgement. Unluckily only one plane have to win and this time us navy didn't save the loser like what happened with yf17. Regarding cost: at that time there was no insight of future cost overrun between the 2 prototypes. Moreover northrop already have a bad budget's reputation among usaf due to b2 program (i won't discuss if northtrop was in fault for that it just happened)
People making a point on Dog-fights, need to first know that Dog-fight was never a doctorine of USAF in aerial combat, but BVR was and still is. So with BVR in place the possibility of Dog-fight is greatly ruled out.
Which is what I never understood because in a BVR fight the yf23 wins every time.
Hearing ur speech and the way u described the technology and information was so smooth
Subscribed❤️
i'm happy for them, personally i always felt that the yf23 was going to be the test bed for the 6th generation systems.
I couldn’t be arsed watch the video so which fighter that could beat f 22
По-русски пиши, а то ничего не понятно.
Благодарю за уделённое время!
I remember following the selection process in the Popular Science magazine. I preferred the YF-23.
Yeah me too
@@Holuunderbeere check out Macross Plus. YF-23 all the way.
По-русски пиши, а то ничего не понятно.
Благодарю за уделённое время!
@@zephirothstryfe0713 thx i will
the military is always developing tech 50 years ahead of what we see today
The best designed fighter jet I ever seen... i am big fan for YF-23... I hope someday YF-23 will be back on the air...
The YF23 is the perfect example of a gen 6 fighter being brought to a gen 5 competition
Ahead of its time for sure!
There was also a proposal to create a third weapons bay in a production version of the YF-23 which would have given it an excellent payload potential.
I always wished this plane had beat out the F22. Simply beautiful design.
F22 looks way better.
@@MrMalicious5 Since that is a matter of opinion, I won't say that it's wrong. But I will disagree.
"Was anything but unforgettable". So it's forgettable? Hey, anyone remember Jetfighter II on PC? It's wasn't the most realistic sim ever but I loved it and loved that plane. I was pissed when they shitcanned it for the Raptor. The Raptor is a fine tool but the BW was a work of art.
I'm shocked that someone mentioned Jetfighter II haha, absolutely loved that game!
I have a feeling we will be seeing this plane sooner than later. I wouldn’t be shocked if this ends up being the Air Forces “secret” new jet. In hindsight they know they shouldn’t have ceased production of the F-22... and now they have a chance to have both in the air.
I worked on Software for the YF-23 Central Computer and Displays back in the late 80's at McDonnel Douglas, so obviously I think it was better than the YF-22. It was a stunning plane and I'm happy I can go see one of the 2 prototypes at the AF Museum in Dayton, OH.
It’s amazing how intelligent people are to have these ideas thought out with a lack of resources.
It is obvious we have some pretty brilliant engineers in fighter aircraft design!!! Bravo!!!
Did anyone else notice the stencil shape of an SU-57 next to the USAF symbol at 01:46 .... 😀
That was rather ironic and silly. But yeah... It bugged me alot
Then again at 1:54 when the narrator says in 1980s the air force came up with the requirements for the new fighter
I bet the Chinese are writing notes right about now
Even if they can build YF 23 without the original compartment it would only result in the knockoff version if you know what I mean
@@dreamspace4858 buahahahaha.... the J-20 can barely compete with the 4th gen fighter jets, underpowered Engines, No Stealth what so ever, it is a cheap copy of the F35... Cheap Chinese copy.
@HenryDavidT yaaaawn 😦
@@dreamspace4858 is that a joke?
@@briggs9187 no not really.. 2,100 kph it goes at.. and the stealth capabilities has none.. it's a fighter for a reason
Excellent stuff
F-22 is such a beautiful plane.
The yf-23 when the engineers all start playing ace combat
4AAM with upgrades is the best SP weapon
@@rramos117 / thanks for the tip
It's great with extra missiles as special weapon
They will even try to attach 99 missiles on it. My God that would be epic.
@@rramos117 nah dawg QAAM is the way to go
The YF-23 has lower radar cross section, lower heat signature, better top speed, better high speed agility. While the F-22 has better low speed agility, thrust vectoring. The YF-23 was the better choice for an ATF since stealth fighters are primarily meant for BVR (beyond visual range) combat (and not low speed dogfighting), and reconnaissance. The pentagon wanted to give their defense industry cronies the contract rather than choosing what's best for America.
Northrup gave what the AF asked for and Lockheed gave the AF what they wanted.
I heard Air Force had issues on Northtrop. That issues makes pentagon thinking twice to choosing Northtrop as a winner.
This documentary is flat out wrong about thrust vectoring, the YF-23 HAD thrust vectoring in the only direction that mattered, in positive pitch. This allowed the YF-23 to continue maneuvering in slow speed high alpha flight.
@@michaelwalsh8379 True, negative pitch thrust vectoring isn't very helpful, pilots can't handle any more negative pitch than the normal tail surfaces provide. Although having negative pitch can slightly improve roll rate in an up/down configuration. But the huge V-tail gave the 23 extremely powerful roll. Also the control surfaces were further behind the engine, giving more leverage. The diamond wing was really a super-tapered straight wing, which means the wing didn't resist turn-in like swept wings do.
The F-22 is a great plane. Best in the world. But the F-23 would have been 6th gen, in 2000, if it had been built.
@Stan Gore Lockheed Martin Corporation is an American aerospace, defense, arms, security, and advanced technologies company with worldwide interests. It was formed by the merger of Lockheed Corporation with Martin Marietta in March 1995. It is headquartered in North Bethesda, Maryland, in the Washington, D.C. Oh and by the way I was on the test team the F-22 won.
My local grocery store has a huge mural of them on the wall, and I finally got to see this machine in person. It is awe inspiring. It's a shame they let the Black Widow II just sit outside and slowly rot in the elements.
great videos!
I followed this competition and was shocked when the 22 was chosen over the 23. Hope Japan gets the 23. This will be very interesting to see.
imagine if YF-23 won the contract..you would say today "The Only Plane That Could Beat The F-23 Blackwidow"
Imagine if both had of won. Like the YF-16 and YF-17 before it.
@@TheBelrick bruh the yf-17 didn't win but it got wanted by the navy i think
@@Pvt_Wade The yf17 was picked up by the navy and became the f-18.
If the YF-23 won and became the F-23 Blackwidow. We would be saying "The only plane that could beat the F-23 Blackwidow is another F-23 Blackwidow."
It probably wouldn't have taken 20 years to fix or update, either.... This is just more Corporate Welfare for the Military Industrial Complex. Wars are simply money making machines for the Rich at this point....
Moral of the story is if you're too good for your time, you will be sidelined no matter what.
I was on the ATF (YF-23) program. It was one sweet aircraft. It flew circles around the YF-22 but politics leaned toward Lockheed. The YF22 aircraft was plagued with problems. In fact, when Congress wanted to see the YF-22 neither of the two concept demonstrators were flyable so they cut the wings off and trucked the aircraft to Andrews, put the wings back on and the Congressmen came out and saw it sitting on the ramp and assumed it flew there. The two YF23s were given to NASA who tested them for their own purposes and gave the grey one back to Northrop to put in it's museum. The black one was parked behind the NASA building last I heard.
One is in California (Zamperni field) the other is in Ohio (NMUSAF)
(I know its beena year)
Apparently the YF-23 didn’t win the first of its battles: politics. Sad but true.
To be fair, the video author did not cover, or glossed over several pros that the YF-22 was chosen for. Such as vectored thrust, which makes a huge difference in maneuverability and defensive capability. There were also differences in the avionics package capabilities and production/maintenance/operation costs, with the YF-23 projected to be more expensive. They were both fantastic aircraft, but at $150 million+ per plane, there could be only one winner. Being a lover of all things aircraft, it is always sad to see a great plane not make it, but in the long term my wallet is happier about the choice.
@@GhostRyderID - Thank you for that extra information, good to know.
@@GhostRyderID yea plus with the decreased size of the F-22 they could store more of them on a aircraft carrier which is a major benefit
@@jackasshomey
Um, the F22 isn't a navy plane. Will never see a carrier deck.
@@bradcolman7331 -.-' uhh yea it is... the plane was specifically designed with STOL Capability's for that reason ya fucking boob -.-'
ok fine my bad your technically correct the F-22 isn't the one they landed on the carriers it's the YF-22... a slight variant of the F-22 converted for naval operation... but now they just use the F-35's i know...
During the ATF selection program, me and my friend, both air force plane enthusiasts placed our bets on YF-23 because we know how advanced it was over the winner, the F-22 Raptor. Now we understand that the YF-23 was not beaten by the F-22 in terms of overall performance and stealth characteristics but by the internal politics inside the US Air Force. I knew we were right all along. If Japan will select the YF-23 as their next generation stealth fighter, then ironically, Japan will have a better air force fighter than the US with their F-22 Raptors until the 6th generation NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance Fighter) enters service in the USAF.
The US will NEVER let another country build an aircraft better than what they have at the time.
I always liked how this one looked over the YF-22. I liked the X-32 over the X-35 as well because it was different.
Great stuff.
I certainly hope and wish to see the FY-23 coming back, that would be fantastic!!
The 23 is oh so beautiful...it’s a shame both couldn’t find roles.
I think the navy would have looooooooove this or the marines also
Give it time. One day the YF-23 will make a come back.
@@RC-rg3vz Aircraft like this make absolutely no sense for Navy or Marines.
What a nice plane. Thank You for showing it.
The F23 was so cool! And the hour glass that was on the belly was the cherry on top. She is my pick over the F22.
"anything but unforgettable"
so... forgettable?
I think he meant "all but unforgettable"
I noticed that😂😂😂
Thank god I wasn't the only one to catch that.
Made me forget it already
@@mjjumps forget what?
i love the YF 23. i flew it in first in JetFighter II ATF (PC/DOS) 1990, Velocity. it really is beautiful; it really is amazing.
I played on the Amiga. Big ol' YF23 Black Widow II on the front of the box. Two floppy disks.
I flew it in the simulator during its development. Seems like forever ago, now.
Brilliant documentary
Starscream: "Finally, a worthy opponent! OUR BATTLE WILL BE LEGENDARY!!!!"
Used to see the shell of one of these birds as a young Airman everyday at work. It got your imagination going. Awesome looking aircraft.
My father was stationed at Edwards for the start and most of the trials. The day he retired, as we were heading out beyond the North Edwards gate (at the end of the Lake bed) both planes (YF22 & YF23 flying together) did a low pass over us. It was a rather nice send off after his 20 years (and my 16 years). Of course the Osprey, B2, C17, and some X planes were doing trials at the time and the shuttle landed there until the new braking system meant it could just land in Florida and skip the piggyback flyback, and of course the F117 was around, though well out of trials.
The yf-23 was built for the role of a true 5th generation stealth fighter jet
Hey we have 6th generation jets
@@icantcomeupwithagoodusername24 only 1 in testing phase for now and i think that it will just be a drone as it keeps on being reported
@@dylanwhite3383 FA XX has begun development
@@dylanwhite3383 It's not a drone
@@kalpanaanubhav the way our current military minds want their new 6th generation fighter jets it sure sounds like it's better to have a drone getting shot down than an actual pilot who could accidentally start world war 3 by being in the wrong place at the wrong time i personally would prefer to see a manned 6th generation fighter jet but unfortunately like the f-22 raptor being a 5th generation fighter jet that hasn't provided us with good results we must instead fund the 6th generation fighter jets to be drones instead of a manned aircraft because unfortunately that's how politics work
I LOVE THE YF-23!!!!! We need more documentaries on it!!
But we all know that the guys who really "pioneered" the flying wing design were the Horten Brothers with the H IX right? Right?
Horten Ho 229 was the first stealth aircraft ever produced but Horten brothers weren't designed the plane to be stealth
I thought it was Jack Northrop himself with the N-1M.
no it was northrup in the 1920s the horton brothers didnt start till the 30's
Wrong. Wrong.
You can’t overlook the value of the F-22 vector thrusting. It was an absolute game changer at the time.
YF-23 was as agile as YF-22 without it.
Russians had more advanced version of thrust vectoring 360 degreen or full circle whilest us has only 90 degrees
Watching an F-22 hover in place like a Harrier is very impressive. The thing can almost fly backwards. Saw it at the air show. They are pretty noisy though.
Meanwhile, YF-23 is a playable plane in UN Squadron for Super Nintendo from 1991. I didn't learn about the F-22 for a few more years.
i looked up the game, how the heck did they know how the B2 is going to look?
@@Humbulla93 it was modeled after a German aircraft from WW2. Some concept designs where released all throughout the design time for the B2. It wasn't much of a guess by the time the game came out.
@@caiusmadison2996 i live in germany so i do know the Ho229, sadly the only model is in a museum in the usa, but the B2 has a characteristic shape of the back end of the wing, much more triangular
@@Humbulla93 b2 is a far more advanced version of its kind of course
@@Humbulla93 B2 was unveiled to the public in the 1980s
She is the best we had 30 years ago!
It’s so good that the F-22 beat it
Thank You..
Are you reely the US MILITARY DEFENCE?
Ofcourse nat
@@yeetboy1019 I bet he actually is, all of the big US departments have social media accounts.
@@yeetboy1019 maybe..... Cuz this channel has 100k+ subs so... Maybe
@@JudeSchauer ummm... DEF NOT, one look at the logo would tell u so
I can't help but think how lucky the test pilots were who got to fly this thing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we have a few of these in service.