In the discussion about arms, I couldn't help but think of Monty Python: "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."
The constitutional peasants are my favourite bit Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort of supreme executive officer for the week. Arthur: Yes. Dennis: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting... Arthur: Yes, I see. Dennis:...by a simple majority. In the case of purely internal affairs... Arthur: Be quiet. Dennis:...require two thirds majority. In the case of old ladys... The thing is - this bit is actually based on a peasant commune in Germany who operated this system for decades. Except "old ladies" was external affairs.
One novel that tells of the Arthurian legend from the perspective of the women is Marion Zimmer Bradley’s “The Mists of Avalon.” Thanks for the episode.
Reading it now for the second time. Love the Arthurian legends of old; after the Romans and before Christianity took over the country. Lots of tension in various aspects.
She thinks magic is a verb so badabing, badabung she's not that great. Given her many misconceptions (Excalibur being the sword in the stone), she is the one-eyed among the blind. And to think that these two somehow got Ph.D.s.
@@str.77 And what’s your PhD in; yucking other folks’ yum? It’s certainly not in linguistics, or you’d understand that definitions are constantly in flux and informed by common usage. I’d also assume it’s not in history, or you’d understand that the democratization of history through programs like this helps to expand interest in the field. Magic yourself back to your trash can, Oscar.
@@str.77 you’re joking right? She clearly distinguishes the sword in the stone from Excalibur in the lake. And if you don’t think nouns can be made into verbs in conversational English…you’re an extremely poor source on anything remotely historical. And I hope you’ve never told anyone to “google it.” Where’s your PhD?
My favorite contemporary (re)telling of the Arthur/Merlin legend is Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy; The Crystal Cave, The Hollow Hills & The Last Enchantment. It reads like historical fiction & borrows heavily from all the early historical writers & later Norman French romance sagas. (She cites all her sources in the appendix) She also gives the female characters more agency & motivation altho it is technically Merlin's memoirs. 2nd favorite is probably Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley since it's entirely from all the female characters pov & brings in a much more pagan pre Christian culture in conflict/ contrasted with the burgeoning new faith of Christianity. Definitely more of a high fantasy than Mary Stewart's but all great reads :)
00:00 - Journey into the realm of King Arthur, where chivalry, magic, and destiny intertwine in legendary tales. 3:23 - Get to know the iconic characters of Arthurian lore, from valiant knights to the enigmatic Merlin. 15:14 - Explore mystical landscapes and legendary objects that enrich the Arthurian stories. 17:46 - Uncover the myths surrounding Excalibur and the legendary weapons of Arthur's saga. 19:41 - Learn about the magical tale of the Sword in the Stone, the key to Arthur's destiny. 24:16 - Delve into the relationship between Merlin, the wise sorcerer, and the mystical Lady of the Lake. 28:38 - Witness the complex and sorrowful story of Guinevere, whose choices had profound consequences. 33:36 - Discover how Arthurian legend has left an enduring mark on British culture and history.
I always thought Arthur was an English Medieval Messiah. His round table the apostles, even having a Judas in Lancelot. Merlin I assume is the devil , aiding greatness, but only with a diabolical outcome. Arthur even lies in wait to be resurrected when ultimately needed.
Favourite book re Arthur - The Winter King - series by Bernard Corwell. Awesome. Read it many times. But obviously Monty Python and the watery tart who gives him a scimitar- no basis for governance! 😂 Film Excalibur - loved it Great chat
If Arthur is supposed to come back in Britain's greatest hour of need, and I was alive during WWII, I'd be super pissed at him for his no-show. "Oh, look, here come the Germans to bomb the shit out of us... again. Where's Arthur? It really doesn't get much worse than weeks of bombing every damn night. But he's off sleeping it off in Avalon. Better go home and tend my bombed victory garden so the family doesn't starve. It sure would be nice if we had a magical savior king to help us out..."
Wonderful conversation! Fascinating take on how the woods were an entire presence of magic, danger and mystery. CS Lewis said in one of his books that Arthur, Guinevere & Lancelot are Romans surrounded by Celtic witches and fairies: Merlin, Morgan Le Fey, et al. "The Mists of Avalon" by Marion Zimmer Bradley is a humorless but powerful feminist take on the Arthurian legend. I'd love to hear more about Arthur from Dr Janega. Thank you!
I took a semester of Arthurian Literature in university and these are my main take aways: - I FLIPPING HATE LANCELOT. - Lancelot jumping out a window into a garden, naked, to escape getting caught. - Lancelot taking the two strands of hair from around the comb and placing it inside his shirt next to his heart. - Lancelot sword fighting, one handed, BEHIND HIM, while he stares adoringly up at Guinevere. Not in a cool way. Just in a "I totally care about literally nothing else because DAMN" way. - "He fell to the ground in a swoon." (x200) - Percival almost losing his virginity to the devil? In disguise? And like no one in my class somehow caught that??? - No one ever seemed terribly good at timelines, even when they were the singular author. - The Green Knight armor that Sean Connery wore. There was a pause of silence in the movie where I ended up saying "And my chest." at the perfect spot and the class burst out laughing. - We had to watch Monty Python as well for it and I brought a shrubbery to class. - I now have a collection of Arthurian movies. And I kept all my books. (It's been over a decade and a half... lol)
When I was very young, around ten or so, I first read about King Arthur and became a lifelong Anglophile……I’m 64 now and found out around ten years ago on an ancestry site that my maternal family immigrated to the US from Somerset…..I guess my intuition was on the mark!
My favorite take on King Arthur is “The Once and Future King,” by TH White. Why does no one else spend any time with Sir Pellinore and the Questin’ Beast?
Thank you ( history Hit) channel for sharing this wonderful introduction video and thrilled conversations about ( unpacking the myth of King Arthur| After Dark).
The Mists of Avalon is mostly a retelling of the arturian legend through a feminist eye, where women are not vilified and they are the main protagonists.
There was a movie where Morgana is the lead figure played by ER's Julianna Marguiles, and one from the point of view of Merlin played by Sam Neil. I recommend both.
Oooh, late to this, but I would love to see an entire episode on The Wood(s). The dangers, the outlaws and misfits, and whatever mayhem or secrets (or not) may have happened there. Even physically what the woods may've looked like back then.
Dr. Eleanor Janega's rap inspired me to pen a ditty: My name's King Arthur and I'm here to say, I like hunting boar in the normal way, I got rings on my fingers and a sword in a rock, The guys wanna be me and the ladies love my ----.
Haven’t finished the video yet, but I would enjoy a similar discussion of morality tales and social commentary in Cervantes Don Quixote from the Iberian perspective. Thanks! 👍🏼
Maybe they don't know about it. That's why she said she wishes someone would do a feminist retelling. Do you think if she knew about The Mists of Avalon she'd say that?
Maybe that’s due to the problematic author? Not only was the author’s husband a convicted pedophile, but her daughter has repeatedly and publicly identified her mother as not merely an enabler, but an active participant in the abuse, and which she and her brother were victims. Kinda changes how you view MZB’s books once you read the reporting on her husband’s conviction and her daughter’s testimony.
As a fantasy author I always found it interesting, and wondered since most legends and myths were based on universal truths what were some regarding King Arthur and Robin Hood.
In America, Arthur's story has all but been boiled down to five characters: King Arthur himself, Lady Guinevere, Sir Lancelot, Merlin and Excalibur which is basically a character within its own right. Whether the other Knights of the Round Table make appearances is hit or miss...although Sir Galahad gets the most play when they do. It seems that we here in the states are more obsessed with the drama of the story of love and betrayal between Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot above all else. It also seems (from what I've observed) that we mostly harp more on the sword in the stone as opposed to the Lady of the Lake. I guess we prefer power obtained through feats of strength as opposed to power gifted freely. I wasn't even aware of Sir Gawain as a character in the narrative until I saw 2021's The Green Knight and found out it was an Author-adjacent tale! Speaking as a lover of Arthurian films (First Knight, King Arthur 2004, King Arthur: The Legend of the Sword, The Green Knight, etc.), this was a VERY informative watch. It never ceases to amaze me how badly Americans want to believe that Arthur (and Robin Hood) were real people in some capacity and I REALLY wish that the populace as a whole would either pick up a book or be exposed to talks like these en mass. Because much like children, we REALLY need to be taught the difference between what's what's fiction and what's non-fiction.
An interesting video, with a particular angle, which I found absorbing, Eleanor is always great. But, I felt that some very important areas of the myth were not really explained. For example in some traditions Merlin was actually ‘The Merlin’ which was a title bestowed upon certain individuals in positions of power. There are many details such as this, which are perhaps worth researching, as these ideas shine a light upon the more Celtic roots of the story. A xx
Forget the middle age version,You must try Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles the best Arthurian and most realistic story set in the time it should be,and a lot of explaining of what is and could be real. A great three books.
I wish you guys could get Dr. Leah Schwebel on the show. She is a Chaucerian and medieval literature specialist. I think y'all would like her. Dr. Janega and Dr. Schwebel would play off each other so well.
Monmouth Priory was founded by the brothers Wihenoc and Baderon under the supervision of Alan Rufus, captain of the household knights of William the Conqueror. Geoffrey of Monmouth was inspired by Alan, as the names and identities he gave to Arthur’s family parallel Alan’s. Alan belonged to a Welsh dynasty in Brittany, the House of Ridoredh, his father was Eudon Penteur and his mother Orguen was sister to Count Hoel of Cornouaille. Alan’s brothers were active in England, Wales, France, Flanders, Germany, Italy and the Balkans.
Edward IV also had a son named Arthur, Henry VII’s brother-in-law. George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle, was a descendant of Arthur Plantagenet’s daughter Frances.
I've heard every single episode of After Dark and this is the first time I'm actually seeing the presenters and I must say they do not look like what I expected/imagined 😅that's not a compliment or an insult, just surprised that I imagined them to be sooo different! 😂
The first story I saw featuring Gawain was Sword of the Valiant with Miles O'Keefe and Sean Connery. So that's who I think of whenever anyone mentions Gawain.
Robert Graves, author of The White Goddess, said Guinevere was the daughter of a giant, which would make her half a giant. Moreover there were three of her - 3 for the Triple Goddess.
Robert Graves was a poet, not an historian or an anthropologist, and his speculations are generally rejected by serious scholars due to their numerous factual flaws and unjustified leaps.
It's so interesting the way people reveal their unquestioned assumptions about what we should think now. You know, when everything they "believe" is what their society told them to believe.
The Sam Neil movie,JUST THE 1ST ONE,..Merlin..IS BADASS!!LOVE IT!!...Sam ,Rutger,actress playing Queen Mab(sorry,her name slips me mind lol)...just good all around..🙃✌️🍻
"Magic being dormant in Britain," is indeed a good place to end, but it might also be a good place to invite Francis Young on to continue the discussion.
One of my favorite books when I was young was Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon. That was maybe the feminist retelling the host was looking for?
The series King Arthur and Her Knights by KM Shea is a really fun retelling that is pretty feminist with a bit of a modern twist. The entire series is bundled on Audible.
Yeesh. The sword in the stone is to make the case that mere physical prowess is not enough to be the hero. Merlin is a prophet in the Old Testament sense. He has magical powers for the purpose of warning and demonstration.
Earl Harold Godwinson hunted King Gryffydd of Wales, caused his death, then married his widow, who was sister of Earls Edwin and Morcar. Harold also massacred the Welsh. Neither the Welsh nor Edwin nor Morcar aided Harold at Hastings.
In the discussion about arms, I couldn't help but think of Monty Python: "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."
There's some lovely mud down here!
True executive power comes from a mandate from the masses, not some bizarre aquatic ceremony
@dereks1264 hello, your joke made my day
@@ChrisOliver4307that is not executive leadership, that is charisma. The lead lemming has charisma!
The constitutional peasants are my favourite bit
Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to
act as sort of supreme executive officer for the week.
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special
biweekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis:...by a simple majority. In the case of purely internal affairs...
Arthur: Be quiet.
Dennis:...require two thirds majority. In the case of old ladys...
The thing is - this bit is actually based on a peasant commune in Germany who operated this system for decades. Except "old ladies" was external affairs.
Eleanor has the best mix of being so knowledgeable but also so engaging on how she talks about history. She has such a talent for story telling!
Eleanor Janega is one of the most fascinating historians to listen to.
She's really great. I love her
Dr J is one of my favorite presenters on HistoryHit TV!
One novel that tells of the Arthurian legend from the perspective of the women is Marion Zimmer Bradley’s “The Mists of Avalon.”
Thanks for the episode.
Reading it now for the second time. Love the Arthurian legends of old; after the Romans and before Christianity took over the country. Lots of tension in various aspects.
This is such a good version. Read the book years ago and I've never forgot it!
Wow, i loved that book.
Did you watch the movie version? I loved it.
I came here to say this!
When Eleanor takes part in anything, it becomes an automatic hit.
Agreed. She's dope.
It’s magic.
She thinks magic is a verb so badabing, badabung she's not that great.
Given her many misconceptions (Excalibur being the sword in the stone), she is the one-eyed among the blind. And to think that these two somehow got Ph.D.s.
@@str.77 And what’s your PhD in; yucking other folks’ yum? It’s certainly not in linguistics, or you’d understand that definitions are constantly in flux and informed by common usage. I’d also assume it’s not in history, or you’d understand that the democratization of history through programs like this helps to expand interest in the field. Magic yourself back to your trash can, Oscar.
@@str.77 you’re joking right? She clearly distinguishes the sword in the stone from Excalibur in the lake. And if you don’t think nouns can be made into verbs in conversational English…you’re an extremely poor source on anything remotely historical. And I hope you’ve never told anyone to “google it.” Where’s your PhD?
Wait. So did Arthur and his Knights have horses, or did they use coconuts?
😂
This dame historian reviews Monty P holy grail. Worth watching.
My favorite contemporary (re)telling of the Arthur/Merlin legend is Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy; The Crystal Cave, The Hollow Hills & The Last Enchantment. It reads like historical fiction & borrows heavily from all the early historical writers & later Norman French romance sagas. (She cites all her sources in the appendix) She also gives the female characters more agency & motivation altho it is technically Merlin's memoirs. 2nd favorite is probably Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley since it's entirely from all the female characters pov & brings in a much more pagan pre Christian culture in conflict/ contrasted with the burgeoning new faith of Christianity. Definitely more of a high fantasy than Mary Stewart's but all great reads :)
Mary Stewart and, surprisingly, Bernard Cornwell for me.
I'm a simple woman. I see Eleanor Janega, I click
Goes for men as well. You know her co-podcast 'we are not so different' ?
same
EXACTLY!
Same! Her and Kate Lister both!
Same
I can't count the number of times I've watched "Excalibur" (1981), but my all time favourite is "Camelot" (2011), where Eva Green plays Morgana.
A forgotten movie/ miniseries is Merlin from 1998 with Sam Neil as Merlin and Helena Bonham Carter as Morgana.
@@marcusfridh8489 And how about the character of Mab. I loved that character.
@@marcusfridh8489 And a very young Lena Headey!
Camelot with Richard Harris was good but Merlin with Colin Morgan was superb!
@marcusfridh8489
Definitely my favorite version.
00:00 - Journey into the realm of King Arthur, where chivalry, magic, and destiny intertwine in legendary tales.
3:23 - Get to know the iconic characters of Arthurian lore, from valiant knights to the enigmatic Merlin.
15:14 - Explore mystical landscapes and legendary objects that enrich the Arthurian stories.
17:46 - Uncover the myths surrounding Excalibur and the legendary weapons of Arthur's saga.
19:41 - Learn about the magical tale of the Sword in the Stone, the key to Arthur's destiny.
24:16 - Delve into the relationship between Merlin, the wise sorcerer, and the mystical Lady of the Lake.
28:38 - Witness the complex and sorrowful story of Guinevere, whose choices had profound consequences.
33:36 - Discover how Arthurian legend has left an enduring mark on British culture and history.
There is an amazing rendition of this story told in the perspective of the Morgan Le Fay and puts it into a real life setting.
"strange women lying in ponds distributing swords,..."
no basis for a system of government
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate of the masses
I always thought Arthur was an English Medieval Messiah. His round table the apostles, even having a Judas in Lancelot.
Merlin I assume is the devil , aiding greatness, but only with a diabolical outcome.
Arthur even lies in wait to be resurrected when ultimately needed.
Favourite book re Arthur - The Winter King - series by Bernard Corwell. Awesome. Read it many times.
But obviously Monty Python and the watery tart who gives him a scimitar- no basis for governance! 😂
Film Excalibur - loved it
Great chat
If Arthur is supposed to come back in Britain's greatest hour of need, and I was alive during WWII, I'd be super pissed at him for his no-show. "Oh, look, here come the Germans to bomb the shit out of us... again. Where's Arthur? It really doesn't get much worse than weeks of bombing every damn night. But he's off sleeping it off in Avalon. Better go home and tend my bombed victory garden so the family doesn't starve. It sure would be nice if we had a magical savior king to help us out..."
The "fwiinng!" when pulling the sword from the stone 😊
Wonderful conversation! Fascinating take on how the woods were an entire presence of magic, danger and mystery. CS Lewis said in one of his books that Arthur, Guinevere & Lancelot are Romans surrounded by Celtic witches and fairies: Merlin, Morgan Le Fey, et al. "The Mists of Avalon" by Marion Zimmer Bradley is a humorless but powerful feminist take on the Arthurian legend. I'd love to hear more about Arthur from Dr Janega. Thank you!
I'm doing a special lesson about King Arthur for my IVth grade English class and this has been a great help in preparing it. Thank you
I took a semester of Arthurian Literature in university and these are my main take aways:
- I FLIPPING HATE LANCELOT.
- Lancelot jumping out a window into a garden, naked, to escape getting caught.
- Lancelot taking the two strands of hair from around the comb and placing it inside his shirt next to his heart.
- Lancelot sword fighting, one handed, BEHIND HIM, while he stares adoringly up at Guinevere. Not in a cool way. Just in a "I totally care about literally nothing else because DAMN" way.
- "He fell to the ground in a swoon." (x200)
- Percival almost losing his virginity to the devil? In disguise? And like no one in my class somehow caught that???
- No one ever seemed terribly good at timelines, even when they were the singular author.
- The Green Knight armor that Sean Connery wore. There was a pause of silence in the movie where I ended up saying "And my chest." at the perfect spot and the class burst out laughing.
- We had to watch Monty Python as well for it and I brought a shrubbery to class.
- I now have a collection of Arthurian movies. And I kept all my books.
(It's been over a decade and a half... lol)
This was brilliant, Love Dr J!
When I was very young, around ten or so, I first read about King Arthur and became a lifelong Anglophile……I’m 64 now and found out around ten years ago on an ancestry site that my maternal family immigrated to the US from Somerset…..I guess my intuition was on the mark!
King Arthur fought against the Anglo-Saxons.
My favorite take on King Arthur is “The Once and Future King,” by TH White. Why does no one else spend any time with Sir Pellinore and the Questin’ Beast?
BBC Merlin does.
My favourite historian discussing one of my favourite stories of all time. Yesss! 😄👏👏👏
To answer a question posed in the video: The Mists of Avalon may not be exactly feminist, but it does tell the story from the perspective of Morgan.
Thank you ( history Hit) channel for sharing this wonderful introduction video and thrilled conversations about ( unpacking the myth of King Arthur| After Dark).
There is an audible original that centers around Morgan Le Fay. “Morgan is my name ” book 2 comes out. It’s a good read
It's a Novel. I think originally
I’m confused about why authurian tales are becoming popular again but I’m not mad! Loved this from when I was a kid !
I think it's because kids love the story and then grow up and start TELLING stories
The Mists of Avalon is mostly a retelling of the arturian legend through a feminist eye, where women are not vilified and they are the main protagonists.
Oh God. In that case, 🥱
Written by a child abuser.
I just watched Excalibur the other week so its impeccable timing.
Great stories and history, cringe pro-degenerate talk
There was a movie where Morgana is the lead figure played by ER's Julianna Marguiles, and one from the point of view of Merlin played by Sam Neil. I recommend both.
Yes! Mists of Avalon and Merlin. Love them both
Love the Sam Neil version
In my memory they were on the same series, I didn’t realize it was two separate shows.
And frankly, a far better and intelligent overview of the story than what was discussed here!
Oooh, late to this, but I would love to see an entire episode on The Wood(s). The dangers, the outlaws and misfits, and whatever mayhem or secrets (or not) may have happened there. Even physically what the woods may've looked like back then.
Okay, officially in love with Dr J. Magnificent.
Dr. Eleanor Janega's rap inspired me to pen a ditty:
My name's King Arthur and I'm here to say,
I like hunting boar in the normal way,
I got rings on my fingers and a sword in a rock,
The guys wanna be me and the ladies love my ----.
(Fist pump)
Write the whole book and I’ll buy it. “Arthurian epic rap” really needs to be a genre.
I'm becoming a major Eleanor Janega fangirl.
Haven’t finished the video yet, but I would enjoy a similar discussion of morality tales and social commentary in Cervantes Don Quixote from the Iberian perspective. Thanks! 👍🏼
Dr. Eleanor Janega is aways a fascinating, erudite ad entertaining speaker.
Can't believe no mention of Mists of Avalon
Same
There's a few dozen novels not mentioned. Also a RPG game book that's regarded as so well researched it's used as a college reference work.
Particularly when they're talking about a feminist retelling!
Maybe they don't know about it. That's why she said she wishes someone would do a feminist retelling. Do you think if she knew about The Mists of Avalon she'd say that?
Maybe that’s due to the problematic author? Not only was the author’s husband a convicted pedophile, but her daughter has repeatedly and publicly identified her mother as not merely an enabler, but an active participant in the abuse, and which she and her brother were victims.
Kinda changes how you view MZB’s books once you read the reporting on her husband’s conviction and her daughter’s testimony.
As a fantasy author I always found it interesting, and wondered since most legends and myths were based on universal truths what were some regarding King Arthur and Robin Hood.
In America, Arthur's story has all but been boiled down to five characters: King Arthur himself, Lady Guinevere, Sir Lancelot, Merlin and Excalibur which is basically a character within its own right. Whether the other Knights of the Round Table make appearances is hit or miss...although Sir Galahad gets the most play when they do. It seems that we here in the states are more obsessed with the drama of the story of love and betrayal between Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot above all else.
It also seems (from what I've observed) that we mostly harp more on the sword in the stone as opposed to the Lady of the Lake. I guess we prefer power obtained through feats of strength as opposed to power gifted freely.
I wasn't even aware of Sir Gawain as a character in the narrative until I saw 2021's The Green Knight and found out it was an Author-adjacent tale!
Speaking as a lover of Arthurian films (First Knight, King Arthur 2004, King Arthur: The Legend of the Sword, The Green Knight, etc.), this was a VERY informative watch. It never ceases to amaze me how badly Americans want to believe that Arthur (and Robin Hood) were real people in some capacity and I REALLY wish that the populace as a whole would either pick up a book or be exposed to talks like these en mass. Because much like children, we REALLY need to be taught the difference between what's what's fiction and what's non-fiction.
@3:24 Dr Freestyler 👏🏻😂
For a feminist take on the story of Arthur, I really loved Marion Zimmer Bradley’s The Mists of Avalon. 28:55
I was going to mention that as well - I’ve been reading it again and again in my late teens.
I was just thinking the same thing
Cant enjoy it anymore after knowing about the author
The Once and Future King ❤❤❤.
An interesting video, with a particular angle, which I found absorbing, Eleanor is always great. But, I felt that some very important areas of the myth were not really explained. For example in some traditions Merlin was actually ‘The Merlin’ which was a title bestowed upon certain individuals in positions of power. There are many details such as this, which are perhaps worth researching, as these ideas shine a light upon the more Celtic roots of the story. A xx
Its such a massive story, with so many heads. There is only so much that can be fitted into roughly half an hour.
We or are they not aware of Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon(1983)? I read that as a teen or early 20s. I appreciated it.
Are you aware of the child sex abuse scandal associated with Bradley? Look it up for yourself.
ELEANOR!! Hope you get to do more stuff with PDX and CK, greatly enjoyed it!
Thank you, this was very interesting to me, I had no idea about the Welsh stories of King Arthur, I will have to see if I can find them.
King Arthur originally started off as a Celtic Briton folk hero fighting against Anglo Saxons
Forget the middle age version,You must try Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles the best Arthurian and most realistic story set in the time it should be,and a lot of explaining of what is and could be real. A great three books.
The book the mists of Avalon tells the story of the women who influenced Arthur .
I read that many years ago👌
"He's got a sword, must be a king...he doesn't have shit all over him"
I wish you guys could get Dr. Leah Schwebel on the show. She is a Chaucerian and medieval literature specialist. I think y'all would like her. Dr. Janega and Dr. Schwebel would play off each other so well.
Fascinating, thank you!
Monmouth Priory was founded by the brothers Wihenoc and Baderon under the supervision of Alan Rufus, captain of the household knights of William the Conqueror.
Geoffrey of Monmouth was inspired by Alan, as the names and identities he gave to Arthur’s family parallel Alan’s.
Alan belonged to a Welsh dynasty in Brittany, the House of Ridoredh, his father was Eudon Penteur and his mother Orguen was sister to Count Hoel of Cornouaille.
Alan’s brothers were active in England, Wales, France, Flanders, Germany, Italy and the Balkans.
Edward IV also had a son named Arthur, Henry VII’s brother-in-law.
George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle, was a descendant of Arthur Plantagenet’s daughter Frances.
Guinevere meeting her mother's ghost in the woods sounds a bit like Odysseus in the place where souls go and a bit like the story of Demeter.
What about Sir Galahad? He, too, is one of the goodly Grail Knights and a son of Lancelot.
He refused to leave Castle Anthrax
Love the modern value judgements....
I've heard every single episode of After Dark and this is the first time I'm actually seeing the presenters and I must say they do not look like what I expected/imagined 😅that's not a compliment or an insult, just surprised that I imagined them to be sooo different! 😂
Never miss anything with Lady Eleanor 😊
Love this format! Getting an expert/scholar address major sectors of a given subject is pretty damn interesting
Good episode. Cheers!
"The Mists of Avalon" 1983 novel by Marion Zimmer Bradley
The Marion Zimmer Bradley books come to mind as a somewhat more feminist Arthurian tale
Could you please do a video about Robin Hood?!
The first story I saw featuring Gawain was Sword of the Valiant with Miles O'Keefe and Sean Connery. So that's who I think of whenever anyone mentions Gawain.
The Merlin story with that one woman reminds me of Delilah asking Samson the secret to his strength.
More like Merlin is the medieval Epstein
Robert Graves, author of The White Goddess, said Guinevere was the daughter of a giant, which would make her half a giant. Moreover there were three of her - 3 for the Triple Goddess.
Robert Graves was a poet, not an historian or an anthropologist, and his speculations are generally rejected by serious scholars due to their numerous factual flaws and unjustified leaps.
Morgana La Fey 💜
What a delightful intelligent discussion :)
It's so interesting the way people reveal their unquestioned assumptions about what we should think now. You know, when everything they "believe" is what their society told them to believe.
The Sam Neil movie,JUST THE 1ST ONE,..Merlin..IS BADASS!!LOVE IT!!...Sam ,Rutger,actress playing Queen Mab(sorry,her name slips me mind lol)...just good all around..🙃✌️🍻
Miranda Richardson.
Sir Bedevere...wasn't he the one explaining how the Earth is banana-shaped?
Guinevere of the West Country represents Gunhildr of Wessex, daughter of Harold Godwinson and beloved of Alan Rufus.
28:29 once and future by Amy rose Capetta and Cori McCarthy
It’s a two book series and it’s a sci-fi queer feminist retelling of the Arthurian tales
"Magic being dormant in Britain," is indeed a good place to end, but it might also be a good place to invite Francis Young on to continue the discussion.
My last name is Morgan so I always got a kick out of the “Morgan-esque” names in the Arthur legends.
I been wondering what Ms. Eleanor looks like ever since she joined the Gone Medieval team! Awesome episode!
She has presented many videos on History Hit already. Including the most viewed episode in the history of the channel.
Mists of Avalon, written in the 80s I think, possibly 90s. Feminist af and a good read
Exactly!
One of my favorite books when I was young was Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon. That was maybe the feminist retelling the host was looking for?
I’m thinking the movie “Excalibur” from the 1980s had Authur’s bastard son. He ended up getting killed, in the end.
When Arthur does come back, he will be wearing a Wrexham AFC shirt.
These glasses on Dr Janega? So pretty.
Any commentary apropos St. Galgano Guidotti?
Very interesting
We love Dr J xoxo
Author might start waking, more than Britain needs his help.
Team Gwain here!
Never had an interviewer contribute so much fluff to an otherwise great discourse by Elenore
Liam Neeson will always be Gawain to me. And Helen Mirren is Morgana. I'm that old.
I always see Lancelot as a bit of an anti hero
Feminist retelling? The Mists of Avalon series, and there was a movie (haven't seen it). MaA was a big best seller.
I thought the sword in the stone was a different sword than Excalibur
Depends which version you’re talking about (this is the most common sentence you’ll say if you spend a lot of time talking about Arthurian topics).
The story of Tristan and Isolde is joined up to the Arthurian tales even though its origins is directly from Iberia.
Thanks.
Did Dr. Janega ever read "The Mists of Avalon"? Marion Zimmer Bradley
THIS is (a sort) of feminist POV of Arthuriana...
Queen Eleanor.
The series King Arthur and Her Knights by KM Shea is a really fun retelling that is pretty feminist with a bit of a modern twist. The entire series is bundled on Audible.
Yeesh. The sword in the stone is to make the case that mere physical prowess is not enough to be the hero.
Merlin is a prophet in the Old Testament sense. He has magical powers for the purpose of warning and demonstration.
Earl Harold Godwinson hunted King Gryffydd of Wales, caused his death, then married his widow, who was sister of Earls Edwin and Morcar.
Harold also massacred the Welsh.
Neither the Welsh nor Edwin nor Morcar aided Harold at Hastings.
Now I really wanna listen to Avalon by Roxy Music. One of the sexiest songs ever.
Historical treat ❤
Yeah.. right