Ortofon 2M Blue VS Nagoaka MP110: Tracking Angles and More!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 23 дек 2023
- Updated video to see: • Fluance RT85N: Nagaoka...
Let's discuss the differences between the Ortofon 2M Blue and the Nagaoka MP110 cartridges and stylus. The Fluance RT85 has the blue, the RT85N has the MP110. Which one is better? How much does the tracking angle matter?
#vinylcommunity
#jazzmusic
#ortofon 
Видеоклипы
Thank you for the excellent video. I currently have a 110 on my Michell Ref Hydraulic, with a Profile II Tonearm. When I recently reconfigured my cabinet, I did experience a rather severe problem with static as I was dropping the needle. The immediate solution was my static gun, which solved the problem, but found it odd, as this was not the case before. Further investigation during another equipment swap showed that it was a poor terminal connection.
I have now also switched out the preamp, and phono preamp, and made sure that I had good clean connections from the start.
My interest in you video was mostly in regard to the comparison between the two, barring the static problem.
The fact that the blue has a far longer lifespan for very little difference in cost, and that you liked the sound (Blues and Jazz Fan here), has helped me make my decision.
"Vinyl Life puts a different spin on every day!"
Cheers
Been using a MP-110 on my Yamaha YPD-6 for a year and no static. In fact, it is fantastic. Never tried the blue on my table but the red sounds thin to me
I had a red, and went to a blue. Much more detail, without being too fussy.
I’m new to collecting and listening to music using a turn table. I am in the process of buying my first turn table and I am extremely confused 😂 I really appreciate your content. My music choice vary from Hip Hop to alternative so I am hoping the rt85 get the job done with newly pressed records. My father has a lot of old records and one day if I am honored to own his collection, I will purchase the yellow one. New subscriber.
The RT85 will be a great turntable to start out with. After having both now for awhile I prefer the RT85 with Ortofon Blue. Good choice. Thanks for stopping by!
I purchased a Nagaoka MP150 cartridge and was using it on my Fluance RT85 turntable. Even with the different tracking angle, it sounds great. Quiet background and very dynamic sound, also, I've experienced no static issues. I went back to my Ortofon Blue because I'm concerned about stylus / record wear with the difference in tracking angle. I'm actually contemplating purchasing a turntable with a height adjustable tonearm just for peace of mind. I enjoy the sound of the MP150 that much.
Maybe I should do the mp150 or 200 on my RT85N. Then my tracking angle wouldn’t be an issue. Thanks
Then again they still don’t last as long as the Ortofon does.
@@bellisariosonic That is also a consideration. I'll probably try the Nagaoka now in the winter months to see if static is an issue with this cartridge. I was using it this past summer, and didn't notice any issues with static.
MP200 is fussier on older records, similar to Ortofon Bronze. MP150 is my Goldilocks.
I prefer Nagaokas. Started with the 110, then went up to MP150. Goodbye Ortofon!
Hey there, my mp110 also creates a static discharge occasionally...when I touch the tone arm...oh well, I've read others notice this too....I live with it, I love how it sounds, Cheers, Mario
I'm play with the Nagaoka MP200 on my Technics SL-1210GR at the moment and the sound is absolutely outstanding.
No rush to upgrade here, but i wish someday to get the MP500.
Either way, i will stick with Nagaoka.
I’m using the MP-200 on my RP3 turntable and absolutely love it!… started with the 110 a few years back but the 200 is miles better… not sure if I’ll ever change from the 200 now tbh…
Hello from Trussville here in the Bham metro area. I love the Nagaoka so much more than the blue. The blue is too bright for me. Keep the videos coming. Thanks
My speakers run on the bright side..so the nagaoka has been perfect
I don´t have much to add, but I bougth the 2M red without any googling. I was not happy with it. After googeling I found out that you could put the 2m blue stylus on the cartrigde for the red. So i gotten the blue stylus, and now I am happy with the sound. So if you haven´t heard the red, and already know what you are buing, my recomondation is to stick to the 2M Blue.
I have both cartridges, I prefer the 2m blue, however both are amazing. I’ve also had the same static “pop” issues randomly with the nagaoka. Especially with certain phono preamps
I also get a ton of static when I drop the Nagaoka MP110 on a lot of records. It usually stops quickly but not always.
Seems to be a trend!
I have the VMN 95-EN and I am very happy with it. From doing my research it would be pretty close to the Ortofon 2M Blue being they both nude elliptical stylus. The 2M Blue would have a slight edge but very close
Thank you for this. I am interested in the music playing in the background.
Hi it’s Kate Gentile ‘Find Letter X’. I did a review on it.
ruclips.net/video/ncXVF07MV_A/видео.htmlsi=QJvyO2-hcSVMLZun
1/2 MM higher, that does not seem like a lot of height. I am running an RT85 in my den, and Dennon do-47f on my mine system, both are currently running the 2m blue, I just love that cart. On the Dennon, I had a 2m red on it, which is an ok cart but after I year I upgraded to the blue.
A follow up video Fluance RT85N Static Issues Solved: MP200 Stylus (JN-P200)
ruclips.net/video/pwiNUnw4HCE/видео.html
One question i have is, what about a cartridge that runs well with powered speakers? I have klipsch r51pm and most reviews ive seen on phono cartridges has always been done witha dedicated amp into passive speakers. Since i have powered (active) does choice of cartridge make a bigger difference? Currently I'm running a vm95ml with a technics sl1200 mk2
In my experience I don’t think there is a difference. I have different setups in my house with powered speakers Yamaha HS8s as well as passive. With powered speakers you need to decide how you want to feed into them and what preamp you want to use. On mine I feed my RT85 with the Ortofon Blue into my Schiit Mani preamp, then into my pro-audio board then into my Yamaha’s. I get a pretty decent sound.
Funny you should mention the red.. I am using a red, and although it hasn't been long I am liking it a lot so far. i think in the future I will buy the blue stylus and use it for newer records, and use the red one to slide in for older records I may pick up. Strange issue with the static on the other, wonder if internally the ground pin has some resistance.
I have both carts and like them both for different reasons. The Blue is more detailed to my ears and has more detail. Is sounds more clinical. The Naga 110 is much smoother and neutral/warmer. I agree with your assessment. Funny thing is I had the static issue with the Naga that came with my RT85. I actually just took it off and left it for a few days and out of nowhere I never had the static issue again. Was kinda strange.
Definitely a grounding issue with the Nagoaka cart. Would love to hear your thoughts on the 2M Red.
I put a 200 stylus on the no 110 cartridge and no more static. No grounding issue.
i just bought the 110 to try something new. not doing it for me and i also had to requeet a replacement because of loud static... thought it wad a faulty stylus . got the replacement and its still givimg me static problems on and off .
This seems to be a common problem. I had to put the mp200 stylus on the 110 body to get rid of the static.
I bought the Rt85n (Nagaoka) a year and half ago thru Amazon and get absolutely NO pops or crackles except on a few 60’s and early 70’s vinyl that were badly handled. I also buy New Tone Poet jazz releases and they’ve always played dead-silent.
I had temporary buyers remorse after learning that upgrading the cartridge may be problematic but I love the sound of the Nag and will just replace this affordable stylus every 3 years and spend my money elsewhere in my “vinyl-chain” like a good pre-amp.
BTW: the cool looking clear acrylic platter looks awesome but will get slippage if I’m not lite handed on the carbon brush. A record weight is a must with acrylic.
I am glad you had better luck than a lot of us had. I happy with the Mp110 with the upgraded JMP200 stylus. It sounds much better.
You like the Blue so why get the RED? I would recommend Ortofon Super OM 40. I would pick this before Ortofon 2M Black. Black is too sensitive. Gives you so much background noise that when you hear it you can't unhear it. Ortofon Super OM 40 is half the price and almost as clear as Black but so much less background noise that makes listening enjoyable. As sensitive it is somewhere between Bronze and Black. In other words almost perfect.
Dude, don't waste your money on the Ortofon Red. Not saying it's a waste of money. I say that because I upgraded from the Red to Blue. The improvement in detail and soundstage is noticeable. Once you go Blue, I don't think you'll want to go back. The Red is a good entry level cartridge. The Blue is a significant step up.
The Red is garbage, even the cheapest Audio Technica sounds better
@@luisrodriguez8639 I don't agree and greatly enjoyed the Red for several years prior to the upgrade. They're both good but the Blue is just better.
@@luisrodriguez8639 What load of cr@#! comment. If you've actually heard one, I'd be surpirsed. The 2M Red is better than the OM-5E and outperforms many AT carts.
I run an AT vm95ml on my technics sl1200, but ive been very interested in the nagaoka 150
I’m not happy overall on mp150. I still have some static issues with it. Several people have now complained about it.
@@bellisariosonic thanks for the reply 🙏
I was in Birmingham visiting friends over memorial day weekend! Very nice city
I hope you enjoyed your stay. There is plenty to do here without the traffic of most cities!
@@bellisariosonic We did. Stayed at the Aloft and spent some great times with our friends.
I've purchased the Ortofon 2m red and the nagaoka MP-110. Used them both on my Yamaha YP-D8 and on my Pro-ject Debut carbon. To me the MP-110 sounded better, more detailed more bass. Sold the 2m red.
That seems to be the consensus with the Red, not many like it. Thanks!
Regarding tracking angles, how do you compensate for not having vta on the RT85?
That’s the question I was alluding to in the video. Maybe using a thick mat to get it closer? I’m not sure how close you have to be on these lower to mid end units and cartridges. I have read several articles and many people are saying that unless you get distortion or have tracking issues the angle is fine. There is a 7 degree variance already depending on the cutting lathe on the record.
@bellisariosonic got ya, I was thinking a different platter mat would help regarding this.
I do like the looks of the rt85n, it's tempting for sure, but my sl1200MK2 is 30 years old and running like a top
Huh, I’ve had the mp110 since 2021 and it just recently started to produced super loud static pops when listening to music matters and tone poet records. I thought it was just me and static in my room. Did you ever figure out how to fix this issue?
Yes I purchased the mp200 stylus and put it on the mp110 body.
Is that because the Fluance doesn’t allow for tracking angle adjustments?
Yes, you are correct.
Nice video. Thank you. I have the blue on my rt85 and I'm very happy with it. I believe the MP150 would be a more fair comparison and it's also a nude. The 110 is so inferior to the blue imo. 🙏
I can see a Big D Jamboree on your shelf, I guess you are a rockabilly guy? I find the box brilliant, where I discovered such names as for example Billy Jack Hale. Regarding the styli - I prefer the 2M Blue. My 50s 45s and 33s play fine with it.
Yes I love that box. Jam packed full of great music and oddities.
I don't hear static with my MP110. If you only hear crackles on new records perhaps the record has been coated with protective anti fungal material. That can cause static sounding noises until played a few times. Even washing does not always remove the noise.
No I only had pops with the 110 not with my Ortofon blue. Records are fine. I put an mp200 stylus on it problem solved
Ive been using a Blue for about 6 years, it sounds as good as it did on day 1.
I clean it and dust the record after every side and only play clean vg+ minimum vinyl
Im sure its got way more than 800 hrs on it and i expect another 800
That's about right for it's projected lifespan., circa 1500 hours, give or take.
Oh yeah I would not put a 2m red on, because it is a bonded stylus also, I would just put a blue on it and be done with it.
I get loads of clumpy dust on my Nagaoka MP110 within seconds now matter how much I wipe down, it absolutely drives my batty. Tons of static, distortion, and the needle is so delicate and never sat straight from the beginning. Great tone despite all that LOL! Now my stylus completely broke off after about a year of ownership so I think I'm going to switch over to the Ortofon Blue. I'll report back afterwards!
Okay here it is! Totally agree with your review by the way 100%. As soon as I played my 1st record on my new Ortofon 2m blue, the difference was drastic. The Ortofon just has an over all livelier sound. It was very rich compared to the flat (aka warm) sound of the Nagaoka, so much so that I was able to eliminate one of my equalizers which was necessary in bringing out vocals before. The Ortofon makes the vocals much more present with a very nice low end punch for bass and drums. It's more balanced over all. In retrospect, these are both excellent styli, the Nagaoka is ideal for the subdued lower fidelity listener, but if you enjoy rich and vibrant tones, not to mention a longer lasting and more durable item, spend the extra cash and get the Ortofon blue!
Why not use shims? That’s what they are for.
I started with a Nagaoka MP 110 then upgraded to the MP 200. Night and day difference! So much brighter than the 110 and the separation is excellent. Best part is that it fits on the 110 head shell.
Wow so need to upgrade the cartridge? Just pop on the mp200 stylus?
I just ordered the mp200 stylus to try.
Night and day !
@@r423sdex wait till you hear the MP-500.
Not really. The 200 will work in the 110 cartridge, but you're not getting the full benefit of the more expensive stylus. The following pairs are interchangeable (cartridges are identical): mp100/110; mp150/200; mp300/500.
Hey ever been to Blue Moon Records in Hanceville just north of Birmingham? Run by a nice collector….
Yes but its been quite awhile since I have been there. I need to make another trip up and check it out again.
I had the same static problems with the Nagaoka mp 110 . Now I have the Nagaoka MP 150 an have no static problems more .
@@andretromp8634 interesting. Not sure why so many are having issues with it.
I'm suspicious that the static discharge you're getting has to do with 1 of 2 things.
1. The record isn't as completely dry as you believe. It dries as the record spins and so the static charge sound dissipates. It comes up once in a while because a droplet of water has survived for a longer period of time.
2. The new record is far from clean and you pre-play cleaning method for new records is substandard in one way or another.
Either fit the symptoms.
Nope none of the above.
This video virtually eliminates the last chance Fluance had of being my next turntable.
Great glad I could be of help. Let me know what you end up getting.
Fluance is fantastic. I have the RT 81 and I've upgraded it a bit I got a new stylus/cartridge and an acrylic platter mat and she sounds amazing.
Same ,made a few tweaks and never looking back ,Fluance sounds as good if not better than my other turntable that cost 3x more !!@@davidjejna9700
You need a tone arm with adjustable VTR on it
Once I added the mp200 stylus to the 110 body, problem solved.
Good video. A couple of points.
The reported lifespan of the Nagaokas is wat too low. Clean your records properly and keep the stylus clean and you're good for 4x that number of hours. I check the diamond shape with a cheap USB microscope.
Secondly, this is a personal opinion, if you are just starting out with vinyl and you prefer the bright, analytical Ortofon sound, save yourself the bother and cost and stick to CD or lossless digital.
Yes, I read or saw somewhere that the 200 hours is a sort of mistransalation from the japanese manual where it says something like "check after 200 hours"
I purchased the RT85n from amazon (UK) in December and sent it back a few days ago because the static pops created by the Nagaoka MP-110 were so loud I thought my speakers might blow! It was horrible. Which is a shame because it's a really nice sounding cartridge otherwise. Once amazon issues my refund I'll be buying the RT85 with the Ortofon instead.
Good to know. Mine still has minor static issues after Fluance replaced the cartridge. It is not as bad as what yours sounds like. It’s usually when I first put on a new record.
@bellisariosonic mine was awful. It didn't do it all the time, but when it did, the sound was so loud! It was actually more like a crack than a pop. And I often knew when it was going to happen because I would hear a kind of static rustle as the needle got closer to the surface of the record.
Sometimes it can help if you put the power cable in a different power strip that can solve the static problem.
The power cable of the turntable in a different power strip
@andretromp8634 maybe, but the point is that the Nagaoka is unusually prone to static in a way that basically renders it unusable. I've had four other cartridges on turntables running through the same outlet and none of them had this problem.
Ortofon is MM nagaoka is MP, grado and soundsmith IS MI, different technical principles of voltage generator. MM moving magnet (heavy weight), MP and MI is the same technical but differently named, moving permaloi and moving Iron (lighter weight)
Therefor is MI and MP more subtle.
Mp 110 is cheaper than the blue 2M. That’s why they decide to put on the rt 85 turntable instead of the blue 2M, to save money.
I have the 110 and consistently get the big static POP. I've tried different cleaning methods and have slightly increased the tracking force to 2 (vs the 1.8) recommended which I believe has helped. My question, has anyone had success with Fluance customer support? I probably wouldn't have gone with the 85N had I known, but I play a lot of classic rock and read about the "warmer" sound, etc. Maybe i just need to bite the bullet and switch to the Ortofon Blue
I contacted Fluance customer support and they sent me another cartridge and stylus which did help, but did not eliminate the issue. I am reaching back out to them to see if they have any more suggestions since so many people are having issues.
Keep posted on what they say!
@@luebbers Fluance support says they have gotten some complaints but not a ton. They said that the acrylic platter can make static issues worse with the MP110. They said they have not tried the MP150 or 200. I also prodded them on how to make the RT-85N tracking angle closer for the Ortofon Blue by possibly using a thick mat to raise the platter. He said they would look into it and test to see how much a 3mm mat added for example, would reduce the tracking angle. Once I get the answers I will make another video. I am also ordering the MP200 stylus to try on the MP110 cartridge and see how that works. I will include that in the video as well.
@@bellisariosonic I thought one of the main selling points of an acrylic platter was LESS static! And if that's the case then why would they pair it with the 110? Seems like a misstep here on Fluance's end. I reached out via email yesterday to their support as well and am waiting to hear back. Look forward to your next video!
@@luebbersyou may have to give them a call if you don’t hear back. Let me know what you find out! Thanks
Yes I have distortion with the nagaoka cart , I use a zero stat gun when using it
Tracking angle influences stylus force the sweet spot on the Nag will be measurably different to the blue. Changing mat's isn't the best solution. Try a more exact method.
If you have the knowledge which by listening to you I assume you do......please don't purchase the red 2m. You will be extremely disappointed. I did. And wish everytime I played it I would have went blue most people always give it great reviews. Hell most audio technica carts I have heard, even their lowest cheapest models sound better than my 2 m red. I'm running a vintage shure now with a jico stylus and I love it. Hope you find what you are looking for. Thanks for the vid, very informative.
Dont get a 2M Red 🙌
The Ortofon Red is the worst buy on a catridge, sounds awful, the Blue sounds nice but I prefer AT 540ML
Blue crushes all day. Mp110 in my opinion is so overrated
I'm not buying any cartridge with a bonded stylus. Try to get some quality in your system. I don't understand why people want to have three turntables and four cartridges when for all the money they're spending.
they can just have one good turntable and one good cartridge.
Hi Ron the Ortofon blue is not a bonded stylus the mp110 is. I am looking to replace it. Any recommendations other than the Ortofon Blue? Thanks
So no suggestions just complaints? Thanks
@@bellisariosonic just reading this now sorry I think I did make a suggestion instead of having two turntables and two cartridges why not just one good turntable and one good cartridge I do have a video where I make suggestions about what turntables to buy. Remember this is just our opinions some people put more value on equipment than others. Some people invest more of their hard-earned money into the hobby than others. In the end it's all about opinions they're not right or wrong they're just different. I think I did make a point on my other comment on a different video where I said some record pressings cost more and they're obviously better sounding The same is true with turntables and cartridges.
@@bellisariosonic okay I have some cartridge suggestions for you for moving magnet cartridges The audio Technica
AT440 MLB it's on sale right now at Hi-Fi heaven for $219.99 next would be the audio technica VM740 ml they go for about $349 and for the moving coil
AT-0C9 XEN MC is 379 with an elliptical
The AT- OC9 is now the AT-OC9 III
I have bought many of these cartridges in the past I love them. Of course back in the '80s they were just called the Signet AT-OC9 and they cost about 250. Just looking on the internet for about half an hour I came up with this stuff I'm not very familiar with these cartridges anymore but I think these are very good value.
@@RocknRonni Hi Ron I agree with you on that. The trick for me is finding a happy medium where I gradually upgrade components as I go. I want to upgrade the cartridge on one of my turntables at this point. Thanks.
The MP150 is closer in price range with the Ortofon blue. I have a Project Esprit Beatles 64 TT and upgraded the red to a blue, of course the blue sounds better. I also have a Rega P2 with a MP110. It was recommended by Ian at the HiViNyws channel.
Nice. You can also put the mp150 or 200 stylus on the 110 body and it will sound better