Rank Points Debt
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
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#splatoon3 #ranking #glicko2
0:00 The problem with the question
2:32 Results-Oriented vs. Process-Oriented Thinking
5:22 Splatoon 3's Ranked System
13:41 Mew. (Embrace the Debt) 
Развлечения
Didn't even know that rank points went into the negative, lol
It's kinda bizarre that they let you fall so far behind and don't even give you the option of ranking down if you want. That part honestly seems like a pretty big oversight in the system
Especially since Salmon Run has a "Demote Yourself" button, so you can just shift ranks on the fly if the high difficulty isn't for you and you're not just gonna sit around and wait to lose over and over.
The main issue I can see with that is smurfing would be wayyy too common. It causes even more issues for lower rank players if high ranked players can voluntarily rank down. Salmon run its less of an issue because the goal is cooperation instead of fighting
Yeah, it probably wouldn't be good to let anyone rank down at any time like in salmon run. I'm just shocked that you don't get the option even after being a thousand points in the negative (a point where the game would normally force you to go down a rank anyway)
@@ienjoyapple nah all they gotta do is let u demote self after having a certain negative point value
@@desmo-ciel ppl can just throw maybe
i am in a financial crisis
I got out of mine lg
Same
I’m currently in S+ -836 points. I keep losing bro
try playing at different times of the day you might match in a spot where you can win more but at the same time it might benefit you more to lose most games and get better playing against people that are more skilled or you can learn the meta around your current situation and whenever a rank rebalance comes you can use that knowledge and capitalize it to see how you’ve grown
@@RiskyRaeden I do great in series, as long as it's not a Friday or Saturday night. I get whooped every weekend night. I just play salmon run on those nights haha
This is by far, BY FAR, the best Splatoon channel on RUclips. Your insights are very much appreciated.
I don't see youtubers going to this level of depth to explain stuff in ANY competitive game. He's explaining stuff most pro players grasp innately but what nobody else would even consider putting into words. Or idk maybe it's just splatoon having a surprising amount of depth
@@arttukettunen5757 it does have a lot of depth, but he's also a brilliant guy who can effectively communicate and reveal that depth to his audience without being intimidating. And sharing these insights is really precious to anyone who wants to improve in the game. Pretty sure he could be charging for these kinds of lessons.
Yup that why I became a patreon member.
@@usb6000 didn't know that existed. Thanks! I'll become one too. Gotten a lot out of this channel.
What’s really funny about this, is that I attend a mental health coaching program and all of your advice is actually exactly what they go over 😂 Idk if you notice it or not but you’re very in tune with the mind and how it works. You’re a great coach!!
I did actually minor in Psychology when I was getting my teaching degree, so maybe I'm cheating a little bit, but all the same I'm glad to hear that what I'm talking about is in line with what's being used in the field!
Even with psychology,it imposible enjoy such an impossible task such as Carrying your whole team because Nintendo likes you to baby sit all the time. I really want to enjoy it, but they don't want to so bad.
For reference, the break-even points in Series are:
C-: 0 wins
C: 1 win, or 0 wins and 4 gold medals
C+: 2 wins, or 1 win and 4 gold medals, or 0 wins and 8 gold medals
B-: 2 wins, or 1 win and 5 gold medals
B: 3 wins, or 2 wins and 1 gold medal, or 1 win and 8 gold medals
B+: 3 wins, or 2 wins and 4 gold medals, or 1 win and 11 gold medals
A-: 3 wins, or 2 wins and 3 gold medals, or 1 win and 12 gold medals
A: 3 wins, or 2 wins and 5 gold medals
A+: 3 wins, or 2 wins and 7 gold medals
S: 3 wins, or 2 wins and 9 gold medals
S+: 3 wins, or 2 wins and 11 gold medals
Thanks this is so interesting to know!
Three wins being all you need to gain points is actually pretty reasonable
@@fury_blade9303 The points system itself isn't terrible, we just need to be able to rank down if we suck.
@@RiahGreen I agree, it was frustrating in splatoon 2 but it allows players to think and tell them selves "how can I get better ? What am I doing wrong in this mode ? How can I encourage team play ?" With the actual system it's far to easy for our dumb brains to just brush those off.
@@fury_blade9303 personally I believe someone should need to win at a ratio of at least 4:3 in order to gain points. However that could be implemented for x battles and anarchy may become more casual in the future
For any new players in ranked, I suggest not rushing it. Play open battles to have time to learn how to battle well in different modes and with different weapons. Lower ranks are getting easier day by day too. If you keep winning you will eventually rank up, but you have a lot more matches to learn stuff in open. Better yet, if you get to a rank you start losing at more than winning, open gives you even more time to practice on that level and get better. Don't risk your points in series or you are gonna be frustrated when you want to rank up to a higher skill level
I dunno, the matchmaking is godawful for me. I played some open battles a week ago and I was matched against S+ players (you can tell by the badge on their banner). I'm C rank so being put against people who played this game a lot already makes for a very 1-sided match. I never had this issue in ranked in previous games but this game just matchmakes C rank with S+, at least in my case.
@@kevinnator9883 How frequently would you say that happens?
@@kevinnator9883 open is literally named open for that reason. its random who you are matched against. you could have a team of S+ players on call in discord, or a bunch of C- players that dont know what theyre doing. If youre playing against players youre having a hard time against, thats the point, youre having to learn new strategies and such to win. this is why the open gives and takes so little points
@@kevinnator9883 that sucks mate :(. It happened to me too. I just sat down and grinded grizzco until I got better with my mechanics and decision making. How is your rank now?
@@niko2924 oh wow. i thought open matched people with your rank. i'll play open more
honestly, going into points debt made me realize my mechanics and general outlook on my matches was not where i wanted them to be, i focused so hard on what i thought i was good at that i neglected basic mechanical skill and critical thinking in matches
i wasnt improving because i wasnt looking for opportunities to actually Learn, which stunted my gameplay and led me to having such a bad WL rate i went into so much point debt it felt disheartening! but after finding out that matchmaking itself would somewhat compensate for my playing at lower level than the S+ marker i was given, i felt that the debt i had wasnt so bad anymore.
recently ive been studying more on how to play each splatling and their roles, ive been actually having Fun in my matches and learning where to and how to improve my mindset in games despite being 2000 points in debt
this video is a good reminder for myself, and a good learning tool for others, that there is more to splatoon than winning and losing, but at the end of the day the only way you'll see results in your gameplay is through your own efforts! ♡ thank you for your hard work as always
Heyy, splatlings are super fun! You can do it!
They need to take a page from Salmon Run's book and put a ZL button to "demote yourself" option. Put it behind a couple confirmation windows to prevent accidental demotions though.
Ooooh, I didn't know that was a thing. The first time I got to Eggsecutive VP I wanted to demote because I couldn't finish any 3rd wave. In the end it didn't matter because the next time I played I started to win pretty much every match, so it was best I didn't demote. Still, it's good to know that that is an option in case I stop playing for a while or I feel like playing in a more relaxing difficulty (I find Profreshional +2 the sweet spot).
A recipe for smurfing hell in lower ranks. tweak it so hitting a certain negative point threshold unlocks the option and we're golden.
They added one, but you can use it only once per season
@@AndresLionheart really? Personally I dislike Profreshional 2 because I keep getting matched with people that don't seem to know what they're doing at all
@@enecofan888 well, I could almost solo carry that. In the end I didn't need to drop my rank though. The next time I played I had a much better time and won most of the time at Eggsecutive VP. Seems like people caught up.
My semi-joking guide on not going into debt. Play a back line weapon, only play zones, focus on staying far enough back for your team to feel safe jumping to you but close enough to still paint the zone. If the enemy team is wiped, push up to zone area and start painting enemy area to help your slayers and start falling back if things start going south. If all of your teammates a being splatted fall back and try to keep enough paint on the ground for your team to be able to "safely" push back up to the zone.
This almost always "guarantee" two gold medals in my experience. Obviously there is way more to it, but I think this can help people slow down and think about what they are actually doing.
EDIT: Typed something that wasn't guarantee.
As a fellow backliner, I can confirm this strategy has some value and can help improve your ability to read the state of the game.
can confirm, am backliner and 90% of the time end matches with 3 gold medals.
Me, an explosher/zone main:
Your guide is to play anchor properly on the easiest game mode to play anchor on…
Plus, it’s so fun when you can find a good “perch” on a map and just harass the other team with cover fire. Just be careful when someone comes to deal with the problem “turret”.
You can literally fail upwards in c and b rank. You can lose all 3 games of every single series and as long as you get any medals at all, you still shoot up in rank very very quickly. It's not until a rank where you don't break even if you lose all 3. I'm in a now and doing pretty well, but c and b were absolutely awful as a new player. It felt really bad to lose so many matches and still go from c- to c+ in just a few total loss series
Yeah, I was ballin' in B rank (imported my S2 data) and got absolutely bitchslapped when I hit A- LMAO.
Fortunately it didn't take me long to relearn the ropes and not suck *completely* (was S rank in some S2 modes, but it had been a while) but still.
@@_colonial_ meh i have like 20 hours played cause i've been busy but i'm A rn i think
it isn't that hard, considering that i hit S in rainmaker once and then promptly fell to B+, and most modes i was B+ to A
the matches didn't feel too hard however, so idk
This explanation actually helped me feel better about myself in 3, I was X rank in all modes, yet I am struggling in anarchy series, I breezed ny way through B and A, but I think my rating may be so high now I am going up against what are effectively X rank teams at the moment just so I can get to S+.
Honesty I wish there was a "rank down to remove debt" button (similar to salmon run) for the people trapped in high letter ranks, that way people can go to what is comfortable for them.
there’s an aspect of this that I think you didn’t do justice (you mentioned it briefly, but i think it was important enough to say more on) and that’s the psychological effects of getting so low. My experience in being an S debtor made the game significantly less fun to play for me and resulted in me losing more to the point where it had a significant impact on my mental health. While this did obviously come from ego investment, I think most players would agree that seeing their number get so low has some sort ot effect on their performance. Losing repeatedly in 2 may drop your ranks, but there was really no equivalent to that. you got 4 cracks and that was that, you still had a clear milestone to work for and if you were skilled enough you’d know you coulf eventually get out. if you’re in rank debt in 3, it can feel completely hopeless to work out because of the likelihood of scoring a 2-3 series, which causes barely any progress. I think the system as it is now provides an illusion of progression and focuses on making the experience be about letter go up rather than a meaningful skill metric, and the consequence is that getting into debt feels like you’re doing something wrong. i really think this system needs an overhaul, being unable to derank was an awful decision. i just don’t think 2 systemically encouraged mindsets that got people deep into the hole the way 3 is doing. regardless of how meaningless the actual number is, people will put investment into it, and i think that the game shouldn’t encourage that.
I agree. If you think about it another way, even in just S+, dropping to -400 pts is equivalent to ranking down in S2. As it takes 700 pts to go from S 300 to the rank up battle for S+. Dropping into any further debt than this is actually making your climb back to where you originally started even harder than ranking down. To add insult to injury, you’re also facing harder opponents.
I noticed that losing in 3 feels way worse than in 2. I don’t think I’m an S rank player but I’m inching toward that rank up battle and praying that I rank down with the season update. I remember my mindset in 2 was “if I rank down, it’s just more practice to rank up again.” Now it’s a 💩show with me either getting bodied or carried and crying half the time. I hope there’s a way to go back to the old system…
Same I haven’t played in weeks. Especially since I was doing fine in S+, and then suddenly the next week I picked up the game again and lost constantly. I have 2/3 lose to win ratio rn 😬
After hearing about all of the issues with debt and people ranking up "too high" (or rather getting to a rank they weren't ready for), I decided to stop playing Series altogether. I have successfully ranked up to A+ by primarily playing Open. I will play a series occasionally if the maps/modes are something I want to play, but other than that I haven't focused on it. It has taken WAY longer to get here obviously, but I believe it's made me a better player by progressing slowly. Most importantly, there is a lot less stress involved and I am not playing careless out of desperation to get a win. It allows me to focus more on my individual contribution to the team and create good habits like checking the map, paying attention to whether we have a numbers advantage over our opponents, checking who has specials up, etc.--things I was NEVER doing in the beginning. Overall, it's just been a way more positive experience.
My best advice for getting out & staying out of ranked debt is to check the modes before you queue up, and decide if you're really willing to risk your points in the current series mode. If not, play open. You can pause your series at any time, so if it's going badly, leave and come back after a mode change. In Series, I really only play Zones and Tower, because those are the only modes where I'm confident that I'll win more than I'll lose.
If you only play specific modes, then not sure if you're deserving of the rank.
@@RetroCheats Rainmaker and clam blitz require voice chat to communicate with your teammates at the higher ranks
@@RetroCheats Why not? I still play Rainmaker and Clam Blitz in anarchy open, but I'm not gonna blow all my points on a series I know I'm going to lose.
@@rideronthedrumbeat sounds like to me you're earning a fake rank. Just like in real school when I could get A's by writing down any answer on a quiz(even if it's wrong) & still end up with an A I did not deserve.
@@RetroCheats That's kind of a problem with the Ranked system, though. You can't really fault a player for that when the system so explicitly allows it. For that matter, you can bet a *lot* of players avoid specific modes and/or maps and that may or may not be dependent on the player's weapon choice, too.
As said in the video, ranks don't really mean that much right now to begin with, arguing whether someone's rank is deserved or not is kind of pointless.
This is really helpful, been in debt for a while after a losing streak
Great video! Maybe they should change ranks name to "difficulty" or "intensity" so people don't feel bad about going down. And actually let us go down so people aren't just getting stomped forever
THIS is why your channel is my go to for Splatoon competitive videos. This is incredibly thorough and really explores the core issues unapologetically. The second chapter of the video was a phenomenal explanation at improvement. And I also really like that Gem is still learning, and has the humility to show us his losses and what he’s learned alongside his wins. Seriously, this channel is a gift to the community. Thank you for making these videos!
Your insight are so lovely to watch, teaching beginners and pros! I actively enjoyed it, although I don’t typically struggle with rank points.
nice! i needed this!
wait…in splatoon..?
Absolutely love your continual focus on mindset and attitude, so important. Thank you so much for doing these!
This is a great video! I have ALWAYS felt like splatoon never explains anything about all the many many many hidden mechanics in the game. Between abilities (like intensify action) saying things that dont help you understand at all without outside resources, and how difficulty actually scales with rank in salmon run, there's so much to this game that i would love to know and just cant! (i found outside resources for the salmon run difficulty too) These videos are awesome because it explains the game and helps me understand what im actually playing, keep it up! ❤️
This happened when I first got to s+ I got to -2000. Now I'm s+4
This is such a great channel, thank you for your content
Thank you! Glad you're enjoying it!
The letter ranking not being super important once you hit S+ actually helps my mentality more. It makes losses less frustrating since there aren't big consequences (like losing 40 x power) while making wins still feel good and games feel super tense. Also, off topic and it may just be me, but I noticed that games in splatoon 3 end in knockouts waaaay more often than in any other splatoon game. Even your clips you played in the background were all knockouts (I think, wasn't watching too closely at the end). And I don't mean to say "oh I'm so good that I knock everyone out" because most of my losses are knockouts too.
the exception about knockouts is clam blitz
i've had at least one game where noone scored through all of overtime, and the game was decided by coinflip
I feel the same way. In my opinion, it feels like you are not match with people of the same skill level, so the problem might be the matchmaking
As soon as i got in S+, i started getting in debt, thankfully its nowhere near the 1,000 mark, like at 182- now.
Really wanna get out of that debt tho
I'm in almost the exact same spot, -40 points, S+. The match making is just all over the place for open, and I seem to get demolished any time I try a series.
This was incredibly helpful. I was wondering why I was seeing S+ badges while in B rank (and usually getting steamrolled in the process), and understanding a bit more about how the matchmaking works definitely makes it feel less bad. Of course, I don’t think that I’m just getting lopsided matches, I see myself making plenty of mistakes, but I’ve only been playing for a month. It makes sense that I struggle against people who have put in a lot more time and who have likely developed those automatic coordination habits where I’m still trying to develop situational awareness.
good to see how this oddly designed ranked system works, I've been as low as -4000 in s+ but with the help of videos like this i've been slowly climbing out :) ty for the content, gem
Great video, I started collecting debt when I went from S to S+, that was a huge skill leap class. More than I experienced with S2. I started collecting debt because I don’t use turf war for practice when trying different weapons. In the past for me, turf war did not help me in ranked.
It’s a lot to collecting debt for sure, another reason why I collected debt because of stubbornness. I was so focused on being an e liter main, that I typically picked that weapon regardless of mode or map. When other weapons was probably a better option because my skill level with the e liter wasn’t there. I got as low as -2000, but now I’m at -1500 after finally feeling confident with e liter and know when to switch weapons if I’m lacking in certain maps/modes with e liter.
Might consider practicing new weapons in Open instead of Series. You lose far less that way.
This has dispelled many of my concerns about ranked--I really shouldn't have been too worried about my performances all along. Thanks for another great piece of insight!
Splatoon 3’s system sounds a lot like launch Pokémon Unite ranked system (I haven’t played that game in over a year so it’s entirely possible it’s still the same). It favoured how much you played over how good you were and the equivalent of your letter rank really didn’t mean anything, you could be in the very middle of all the ranks and be matched with the lowest rank or the highest rank (note, these were not at the same time but the variance was still really bad)
Gotta love how Gem's title is "A Real Coach"
I'd say this is quite on the mark. Went straight into the negatives after finally making S+ (I had already failed the rank up several times...) and it was a bit of a bother, but at the same time, I also didn't find myself caring all too much, since ranking down is not a thing right now. The letter rank doesn't mean much right now, as you say. I switched to a different weapon for a while... and started avoiding Clam Blitz more - I'm now painfully aware of how clueless I am as to how to play it well - and I got back onto a more upward trajectory. I'll try and figure clams out a bit more later...
Having returned to my initial main a few days back, I do feel like I'm doing better now, but given the nature of how the Ranked system works, it's hard to say if I've improved in that time or if the environment has simply become more in line with me instead. I do feel like my performance itself has gotten better, not just the results, but I'm not sure. At the end of the day, though, what I really would like is to keep learning as a player. That, I think, is what it ultimately comes down to. That's where a lot of the fun is for me.
Great content as always, I gotta say I really miss seeing the power at the beginning of the match, that number alone gave so much insight on the players' skills. Let's see how this system will change in the future.
Feels a little weird that when I found out I could be in Rank Point debt, my first wish was to let the game demote me to at least be honest if I'm not good enough for S+ yet.
I'm an S+0 player and in debt myself. I ended up choosing to not play Series too often and choose Open if I ever want to play Anarchy or try out some weapons.
Also, gotta say, your videos have been helping me with my decision-making in battles. Some time in the future, I should try getting a coaching session from you.
I happened to be in -850 pts debt when starting S+0, with a WR of 30-70 which led to some introspection from my part. A lot of it was in fact due to my mindset when approaching the game, aka, i just tilted all the time x).
That's when i started watching your channel and asking myself the good questions during matches, the most important one being : what can i do right now to help my team the most ?
It's a tricky situation because, to stop tilting, you need to start having a global vision during matches, paying a lot of attention to your teammates (i play anchor) and try communicating and doing good team plays (as best as you can in solo queue, that is). But at the same time, you also need some humility when the rest of your team performs poorly compared to you, because that is ultimately a fact that is outside of your control. It's easy to blame them in this kind of situation, but really, the best attitude is to wonder what YOU could have done better to help the team, bc that's all you can do.
It's really when i embraced this sort of critical thinking that i started getting back up. I'm now around 2300 pts, just past S+6, and a lot of that progress is thanks to your channel, so thanks for that. A healthy mindset can change a lot of things.
I feel the debt system is a little bit silly, but its almost charming and i think could be kept around in a more fun way. for example, it could be something like if you reach something like -100 points of debt you have the option to pay 5k cash to reset it or to just get demoted and save your money. and if you hit any debt at all, the game quietly stops matching you with people in your letter rank anyway
finally I've been waiting for someone to tell these people in the -1000 or more points that maybe it's them
I do also take issue with the system, and I'd be cautious about the tone; saying something like that can be discouraging. It can mistakenly give the impression that there's just something wrong with the individual and there's no point for them in trying.
@@SquidSchool I prefer this system over the previous one but if someone is just on a losing streak you can only blame your teammates so much, that's when you should go look at the replays and analyze what you could've done better and improve on those weaknesses
@@SquidSchool you also need to be able to adapt to both your teammates and your opponents weaknesses and strengths, it's something I had to learn to get to S+
8:45 I totally agree on this. Ranking down can give you a really important perspective on what did you see on a superior rank and then compare it to the lower rank you are currently in; it let you see what people do on a superior rank, than the players on the inferior rank don't do, and so you improve on that.
If you get only on one rank, you will just get fustrated and think it is a skill issue, when maybe it might be just a strategical change or to be more aware of stuff around the map.
When I played splatoon 2 and I started to rank up, I remember the times I ranked up and down from B+ to A-, also the ones from S to S+, and the one that I think was the hardest from S+ to X; each frontier made me realize that players did something different and that is why they were on different ranks. The first time I got to X rank, I got beaten so hard that I got really scared of that rank for a week; but I then noticed how things just felt faster on X rank; In my opinion, many people on S+ have the raw skills to be on X rank and beat 1v1 situations, but they tend to fail on when to attack and push a lead on the objective; in X rank people tend to push more with teammates instintively (if they are alone, they wait until there is a teammate to see how thing goes and try to do ambushes on 2v1 or maybe distract so teammates push the objective more, etc etc).
...sorry for the long comment, haven't sleep well recently.
I would love to see a video on the best approaches for new players to avoid disadvantaging their team.
My most basic advice for that would be to stay alive as much as possible. Even if you're not mechanically good at the game and don't splat enough, you still contribute by painting (aka farming special for yourself and helping your team control more space) and be a nuisance for opponents.
Good ennemy players will always try a push as soon as they have numbers advantage, so you just being there alive with your special ready will already make them think twice before engaging. It's always better to retreat and regroup with your team if you were going for a bad trade annyway.
Hey Gem, long comment inkoming...
(Ok, I actually have to go really soon, so this will be more like a very compressed long comment, k?)
So, this was about a year or two ago when I started learning about competitive Splatoon and began to rank up through B to A and that... And then I fatefully saw your "Finding Your Team" video.
I appreciate a lot of your insight, but that video was big. Like, big big. It made me start to realize that being a part of this community was actually possible, that I could become a part of a competitive team with other players who play the squid game just like me.
I wasn't able to take up this dream straight away, but I kept trying to improve my gameplay and get better, studying and learning and planning...
Eventually, Splatoon 3 finally released and I decided that I was ready to take a step into the unknown and put myself out there in the community. I went back to your video, joined the Crosswalk and the Free Agency and found some players who were looking for extra teammates. I applied, had my first ever try-outs, my first time playing with VC, my first time encountering other competitive players, and...well...
If you go to ~11:30 in this video, you'll see a player named "LTS マカズナ". That's Maka, and he's a member of the team I ended up joining, the Low Tide Strikers. They're some really epic people, and I'm so glad that I was able to find them thanks to you.
It really puts things into perspective, looking back on when I first noticed competitive Splatoon...and now seeing myself as a part of a full-fledged team... The impact that Squid School and Braveous has had on me and other Splatoon players is so much larger than you realize, and I can't thank you enough Gem for making it all possible. Best of wishes to the future of your channel; I hope that it continues to affect other players in the same way it helped me.
(Also sorry that this is so poorly written I'm super tired ;P)
I LOVE your insight on the ranking system of Splatoon 2 vs Splatoon 3!
Is there a resource for locational callouts for each map? I find awareness of where your teammates are and where the enemy is tends to be a huge struggle without having names for the different areas of each map, especially if you aren't playing Anchor.
I'm told they're being worked on but I'm getting impatient lol
I just wish they would let people rank down, voluntarily (like in Salmon Run) or otherwise. At a certian point the game is telling you you are not good enough for the rank, but does nothing to adjust said rank, so it keeps hitting (if you keep playing ranked series), drives you not to play a part of the game you were having fun doing up to that point, or makes you not care about it one way or another.
I think you should rank down if you lose but understand no circumstances should a player in pvp be able to rank down with a button. Every lower level would be completely full of smurfs that want to stomp on new people
@@leftovernoise yup
@@leftovernoise Limit it to once a month.
@@SubjectNate I still think that's a super overcomplicated solution to a problem that was already solved in Splatoon 2. Wouldn't it just make more sense to rank down if you lose a bunch like in the previous game. That stops smurfs from ranking down on purpose unless they throw every match, which they could be reported for.
In that system your rank would actually be indicative of your performance. Win matches rank goes up, lose matches repeatedly and ra is goes down.
Aw man. I was really proud of getting to S+ in Splat 3. But I always play Anarchy Open until I get my feet under me with the higher difficulty. This results in way less debt and frustration while I learn from better players.
i don't know why the ranking system from 2 wasn't just brought back -- it worked perfectly fine!
The problem with 2 was its opaqueness. It was difficult to tell just how much you needed to win/lose to make progress, or at least not de-rank. That could make things stressful. I prefer the series set-up because at least you know exactly what milestone you want to hit. Like, if I want to at least break even in S+, then I know I have to win two games and earn eleven gold medals. The issue with 3 right now seems mostly to be with the whole debt thing which can be highly demoralizing but also kind of pointless from a skill-check perspective.
I agree you should definitely rank down at certain debt thresholds. Or maybe do like a special "Rank Defense" ticket to keep your rank and reset back to the points you get when you rank up initially, something like that.
I think the idea that rank is more closely tied to playtime than skill is probably true for some players, but at the same time the very fact that other players have massive rank point debt that they are unlikely to recover from without improving their winrate does mean that rank isn't totally meaningless. The fact that it's not so closely tied to a specific statistical measurement doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad system.
When I caught in was gonna go into debt (I know I need to improve, but tilting from a loss chain in series is also real) I swapped to open. The point gains slow, but so its the loss of points. Im actually gaining points faster in open, but that's a combo of half the time I have friends and then other I just get lucky and got a team I click with. I really want league back for getting with pals, the trying to get our power high as we can in two hours was a straight blast.
What I find helpful with solo open the most, is the fact I could face a four stack. I can see the results of there communication, and learn those tricks, albeit by getting trashed but hey, I learned a new corner to watch out for zipcasters being sneaky on me. I should link you one of my vids, I may have only posted wins, but i know there's crud I should fix.
My tip to debt is simple, if your starting to see your losses pile up, stop series and pratch in open till your win rate recovers. Then even if you lose a lot of games the debt is not as high, and easier to recover from.
I'm of two minds about it. I think for me it works out a bit because I want to consistently play with people better than me because it helps me grow. I remember going negative a bit in A, then studying up and practicing, soaring through A, getting bounced back from the rank up battle 3 times, getting into S finally, only managing to break even every series as I got used to it, and now I'm soaring through S about to rank up to S+.
It can definitely be a bit demoralizing to go down, but if you're truly stuck stuck it's time to watch your replays and seek out perspectives from more experienced players to give you something new to think about and work on in your game.
They should probably let players rank down at some point if they drop too much (maybe ask them if they're like -1000 or something), but I like being able to have unlimited cracks at players of the skill level I'm trying to reach.
Thank you 😭
Last night I literally waited for either you, ThatSrb2Dude, or Wadsm to go live so that I could donate to ask this question, lucky coincidence that this video cane out today. Unbelievably helpful.
While I appreciate a lot of the design decisions behind anarchy and specifically series, this video really nails my problems with the system on the head. It really feels like the ranked system is counting on X battles to be the "true" ranked experience whenever it launches, so the fact that Splat 3 is missing that mode at launch is kinda heartbreaking.
Short term though, I really wish the anarchy system as it stands made it easier to know how well I'm doing as a player so that at least I know where I stand and can measure my learning accordingly. It honestly is making me want to pursue the competitive scene a bit more so I have a more concrete metric of my skill as a player than Im getting in solo Q. It's certainly not the only reason I'd want to pursue the scene (I did a few more casual teams in S1 and miss having the solid group of people to play with), but I want something more substantial to help motivate me learning the game.
A lot of us didn’t like the system in 2, but the fact you can’t demote makes me wish it was back. Such a weird design decision. I’ve been on some epic losing streaks, and I’ve been dropped out of X in 2. That still feels more fair than keeping you in a rank you can’t keep up in. Even worse when you can match with people in lower ranks, which I can assure you, is not fun for either party. Really hope they fix it.
One thing I did was try to play less aggressively and if the other team was in the lead I wouldn't panic. Immediately I began to win more games and I wasn't dying as often, I play a charger and I'm slowly realising that having map awareness and knowing how to get my team back into the game safety and quickly and knowing how to do pressure points and stuff like that is way more important than just having good aim :)
This video is great because I can now focus more on enjoying the modes and less on worrying about my letter.
My rank points recreate the 1929 banking crisis
I live your channel, and i always redirect people here when they ask how ive gotten as good as i have with a physical limitation that prevents me from using motion controls. This video nails it though- and is exactly why im only playing ranked open, casually, in C right now. I think Splatoon, in *all* modes, should give you the option to only play at a level you are comfortable with, based on where you score is, and what youve unlocked. Nothing feels worse than getting yelled at in SR because you had a REALLY good day in rando run with constantly getting the grizzco weapon, are sitting in profreshional +, and basically being forced to throw games for the whole team because you cannot haul your weight past overacheiver! like.. some of us actively dont want to play at a pro level- *and thats okay!!* but we shouldnt be locked out of playing half the game modes because the game refuses to let us either cap ourselves, or rank us down appropriately.
The game is FUN, but on the meta end? if definitely needs work. and im willing to wait for that.
I feel like there's been an effort to remove predictive information, pre-game information predictive of the game's outcome, from the player's view. We no longer see:
- player levels in Turf,
- player ranks in Ranked,
- lobby power level in Ranked, and
- team power levels in Splatfest Pro mode.
The team power levels, in particular, correlate well with wins and losses and margins of victory.
Enemy team power level in Pro = how much clout you get but you can only see this if you win.
@@preyingshark4878 Yes, I love seeing the other team being 100+ points lower than me. Really helps my self esteem. I guess you also can judge how easy or hard the game was by how many points you win or lose, but that depends on the Rating Deviations in addition to the rating differences.
in general, muddying the waters between what's a matchmaking score and what's an achivement tends to really hurt the quality of both. matchmaking scores are intended to plateau; they will go up and down until the player is exactly at the level of play they enjoy -- and if that level changes, then the scoring will likely change to reflect that eventually. but carelessly pinning achievement status on a certain rung of the matchmaking ladder will attract the players who are driven by matchmaking -- and if they plateau before the mark they're looking for, they won't just stop there.
this sort of behavior normally works out well for achivement-seeking players; there's a challenging achievement, they want to get it, so they're motivated to improve their skills on the game until they do get it. but improvement is only quite that static in the context of a single burst of playthroughs of a single-player game. if you have to trump a powerful CPU or think your way out of a huge intellectual challenge, there's always going to be a trick to it, something that will eventually get you over that wall no matter what. but human players tend to improve as well as you do, so defeating more of them tends to require a far more invested approach to improvement -- more invested than what someone's probably looking for if all they wanted was a lousy badge.
I got lucky one night and made it to S+0. I wasn’t understanding and I am currently -600 points in ranked debt. I was frustrated with myself because I didn’t know why I was losing so much and everyone else was better then me. Thank you for this video!
i'd be interested in hearing how rating systems interact with how many games a person plays per day. maybe the system is trying to adjust the variance in performance for players who don't play that often, i.e. have a smaller sample size, such that each session has a few blowout games in either direction. it reminds me of how people said SBMM in call of duty would make the game less fun. i don't necessarily agree with that logic at face value, but there may be some underlying player experience factor that they're trying to adjust for or something like that
I find it funny that the lack of ranking down is a problem in versus but is a new feature in salmon run (at least being able to do it on command). i’ve had times where I struggled a ton in salmon run but had a much better time after naturally ranking down from a few early losses in a row. Just goes to show how ranking down can be more of a blessing than a curse. 3 is my first splatoon game, so as I learn how to play effectively, i’m in no rush to get to X rank
I was actually climbing out of my debt when I played against you (Gem) last night (btw my parasocial tingling went full tilt)!
But yeah, shifted my goal from ranking to gaining Sheldon tickets in open, and I feel great about it. Went from -150 to +80 just bringing my freshness up on weapons for the new weapon tickets
But of course, that means I was woefully pitiful against you with my least used weapon LMAO
Your Thumbnails are perfect.
Lil Judd is one of the good billionaires, trust
I trust.
Question: How do I avoid pressure when being attacked?(get nervous and start wave-aiming)
I never went into Debt, but I feel like in most games you're better off at just playing over and over without analysis. But the devs specifically allowed you to view your own replays with this system, just so you don't fall into the replay funk of trying to get one more win and call it a day, as if bad luck is dispelled. You will drag your team down when you're not in the right head space.
I lost like 900 points or so and I took a break. I thought about why my matches weren't going well at all Series wise. But I changed my build, looked at some replays, and tried new techniques I saw from others and I recovered to neutral in one ranked rotation, a few days later.
You can get out of debt, I believe in you cephalopods.
In my experience of going from S to S+, I went from winning 3/4 games per ticket with the occasional 5 win in S to winning 2 maybe 3 games per ticket in S+. S+ also gave me my first experience with point debt (which I escaped from on the ticket that put me there).
OMG love the intro, it made me feel like a 5 year old watching Discovery Kids 🥺
Someone else posted the break even points for ranked and that really put the dilemma into focus for me. They don't want to risk C ranks going into debt while they're still learning the game, so to counteract that, they made it so you can literally rank up with a 0% win rate (0 wins breaks even in C-, but medals gives you points on top of that). That's a problem, at that low of a level, many of the games are pretty much random, so someone could just get lucky to win a enough games to rank up before they learn anything, instead of being stuck there for awhile and trying new things or getting better mechanically to win more games by actually improving. And then, because those players are getting pushed up, everyone else is getting pushed up as well. Then you throw in the aggressive rank mixing that makes it so A ranks can pretty much fight any rank + the fact that the majority of the playerbase is going to be in the lowest ranks...and you get a bunch of posts from people in S/S+ talking about being 1000s of points in debt and people in B rank complaining about how "sweaty" ranked is.
I only play open anarchy battles for this reason. I’ve been on a losing streak in salmon run AND anarchy for some reason, I’ve been below 20 wins in my last 50 for each. I tried a series the other day and lost all three in a row, only gaining 37pts back. It’s really frustrating. I can’t imagine playing series over and over again.
ELO is also used for chess ratings , it’s a great system but Nintendo needs to let people derank and understand their own rating score
The thing about average range matchmaking is that it is often very bad for midrange/support weapons like a rapid blaster pro or splatling or a slosher. I don't even think it really works and is probably really low in their matchmaking algorithm.
I can't count the number of times I've been put into triple or quad backline comps that just get rolled over unless eliter is a demigod.
Maybe it's a player base size thing, where if the algorithm had many more players available at similar skill ranges, it'd do a better job.
They honestly never should have removed deranking. This creates a problem where ranks are now inflated to the point a B rank player can end up in S. I myself am in S rank, and I find I absolutely demolish opponents when a match goes well, which would indicate I belong in a higher rank. I get away with plays that would absolutely not fly in S2. However, when it comes to my rank-up battles I'm suddenly against what feels like X rank opponents, meanwhile, our team struggles because we simply cannot beat the opposing team. I get stomped all 3 matches and it's back to crushing people in S. The removal of deranking has hurt the game badly. I remember working my way up to X in Splatoon 2 and there was no cheesing it. If you didn't do well you didn't climb. You had to bring your A game, go hard or go home.
The problem now is you can climb even when doing poorly or not winning so long as you get the medals to boost you until you hit S. The fact you can rank up with a less than 50% win rate is abysmal. Street Fighter 6 has a similar problem, which is why every rank below Master is a joke. In competitive games, it used to be much harder to get in the higher ranks because it was the top 10% of players. Now that the barrier for entry has been removed, just about anyone can get in and it ruins the player pool. You're now more likely to end up on a bad team, and if you're already doing bad it creates disaster.
Really the only solution is to look at what you're doing, don't hard focus on wins and influence the match in a positive way as much as you can. K/D is not a pure measure of overall skill. I have lost games where I went 24/05 but we lacked map control allowing for the enemy to crumble our defence, no matter how many kills I got. Never underestimate the power of map control!
Okay so I have a question, I'll ask the question first then give some background/context.
The question: Since you are not typically shown your Glico rating, is the player pool you play against a good indicator about where you would have been on the old system of Splatoon ranking? I never played Splatoon 1 or 2 outside of a few hours here and there playing at friend's houses, but the info I'm hearing in this video is making me want to play more Splatoon 2 just so I can get an actual sense of where I really stand.
Background: I have gotten into A rank so far, and I stopped doing series in favor of doing open battles once I was -300 ish points. After practicing I was able to do some series and get up to A+ but I'm still choosing to do open for the most part instead because I don't think I'm ready for S rank and fear landing myself in a lot of debt, and/or the matchmaking giving me battles that are so difficult that I'm not learning anything. Yet, it seems that my Glico score disagrees with me and considers me ready for S rank based on the matchmaking I have been seeing. I get consistently matched with S and S+ players (at least of those who use the badge on their tag) and I'm wondering if that is more of an indicator that those particular players have a lower Glico score than their ranking and we meet somewhere in the middle, or is that indicating that my glico score lands me somewhere closer to S rank or maybe even low S+ rank? I would assume the former only I've also been matched with players who are very obviously quite skilled, or just have skill much much higher than my own for whatever that's worth. I've even been matched up with a few players I recognized their tags and know from social media were X rank in Splatoon 2, including Gem and one of his previous teammates which I got matched to last night. I get absolutely pummeled every time these types of matches happen of course; I don't have a lot of time to play Splatoon and have only a combined hour total of 160 across all 3 games, so there is no way I am mechanically practiced enough nor have the real time experience needed to compete with these individuals. But it keeps happening anyway. Why does something like this happen? Is it just that the system is still working to get a data pool for matching people, or is it just that matchmaking is more varied in Open maybe? I'm unsure I see it as often in series. Gem mentions here that matchmaking is based on a compromise of factors, but how is it that I'm consistently getting matched up with players in higher ranks, and I guess why I am asking is because I really want to know about where I stand, and I wonder if this indicates to me in any way that my skill level is maybe higher than the rank I am in and if I should go ahead and try to rank up, and whether I can guage my actual ranking based on my matchmaking, or if this does not give me any indicator of my Glico score at all? Not that I'm complaining, I feel way more comfortable playing with and against S and S+ players in Open and learning from them while not going into debt compared to when I was in C and B ranks, in fact they feel easier than C and B ranks did somehow, while A rank was the first time I went into debt at all, I struggled really hard to get out of C rank and again for B rank when doing the rank up series. But in A rank things feel way more chill and while I can't attest to the rank up series since I haven't tried it yet and am frankly too nervous to, it feels like a more accurate guage of my skill level as far as who I'm playing with and against when I'm matching to players. But then again, why am I getting matched to like, pro players also even though I never stand a chance in these matches? Lol.
Open isn't a good gauge of skill level because it allows friends to join. I believe it creates matches based on the average Glicko rating for both teams. You can have instances of a super high power player on the same team as a low power C rank player, but that'll only average out to a middling Glicko rating so it's not representative of your skill.
Series is generally more of an indication of your actual skill level since it'll only find teammates that are of a similar Glicko rating to yourself. Though I have to say it feels off in S+ rank for some reason. There's a huge spike in difficulty for a lot of players between S and S+0 which seems odd if the game is matching you based on your Glicko rating from within your rank.
I can imagine this video has helped tons of people who were in debt in rank. I’m not in debt currently but if I ever do,I’ll go back and watch this vid again.
9:21 I’ve been in this situation before. It’s not fun.
I didn't even know you could go into debt! Gem's content and other Splatubers are carried my rank to S without debt lol
Was a mid s+ player in splat 2, went to about -450 in S rank as I had mostly been experimenting with different weapons up until that point (which had worked beforehand due to it being easier to rank up). At that point I was pretty upset but returned with one of my main weapons from 2 and played my way back up to s+ where I’ve mostly been chilling with open battles to once again try new weapons.
I feel bad, because I really like a lot of the _basis_ for Splatoon 3's ranking. It feels good that there's a mode with barely any bearing on your rank so you can kinda mess around in ranked modes without feeling like "my rank is on the line if i'm not playing at 100%". If I want to try new strategies for Splat Zones, I want to actually be _playing_ Splat Zones. And the medals make me feel good and give me something to strive for!
But a lack of deranking and vague matchmaking DOES really muddle my thoughts on the kind of skillset I've developed. I'm just hitting S and I feel like I'm playing the best I've ever played, but I wonder how good that _really_ is.
I got rather in heavy debt when I got in S+. I think that the main reason I was doing so bad is because I feel like I was still playing Splatoon 2. It really changed a few weeks ago when I finally tweeked my playstyle to fit Splatoon 3.
If you wanna get out of debt, I strongly suggest you take it slow and *play Open.* If you win, you'll always earn 8 points, more than you'd lose upon defeat (no more than 5).
Hey cooler question: you know how after a match it tells you those 3 achievements for that round ((#1 turf inker, #1 target) are there ones that are better to go for than others? Do they do anything other than just look cool?
dudes be like “my teams suck why am i not winning any of these games?”
🥪
my brother in christ you played the series
As someone who was almost X rank in splatoon 2. I feel like I’m constantly getting matched with people that don’t belong in S + for splatoon 3. Because of the fact that we can’t rank down anymore, I feel like there are too many people who rose too early and now find them selves in debt when they get matched with better players... or become the weak link to a team with 1 or 2 decent players and in turn make their points go down. I had a really good win ratio before reaching S+, often getting 5 wins on a series ticket at S. No after reaching S+ it seems I rarely win anything.
9:22 i started getting angry at this system when i fought someone with the x rank title in A-
After hearing stories about people being in -2000 rank debt, when I hit -350 in S+, that was a sign I shouldn't risk playing Series and risk that kind of point debt. Figured I'm better off playing Open matches and trying different strats against more experienced players. Feel like I'm doing something right if my W/L ratio is improving and my KAs are near or at the top in many matches, even with a Sploosh.
Also - taking a lot of your advice to heart, Gem. Easily my favorite Splatoon channel here by far. Thank you so much for these videos!
I understand your points well for someone who wants to play ranked to actually measure their rank. In Splat 2 I got discouraged way more by the cracks and whatnot specifically because I found the ranked modes more fun but still didn't care about seeing my rank. Something about the system in Splat 3 lets me play much more casually but I'm understanding now that it's probably more a visual thing that's better for my mental health but I still want the system to give me as fair of games as possible behind the scenes.
very much appreciate seeing a video like this. I loved S2's ranking system and immediately smelled smoke when I saw how it worked in S3. then I ended up with -1800 points in S+ with a ~15/50 winrate :v
I played splatoon 2 for a while, but in no way seriously. Then, once splatoon 3 came around I decided to maybe take it a little bit more seriously. This channel has been a MASSIVE help and a very entertaining tool for me. Thank you so much, Gem.
I just switched to slayer from anchor to lose less in ranked. Even if I played played perfectly as anchor, whether or not we won depended on slayers and supports doing their jobs. Went from S+4 with explosher and hydra to S+11 with .52 gal.
I haven't gone into Rank Points debt yet! Yaay!
yeah i definitely feel like i've just been stumbling my way into A rank from just getting medals and not from my own skill, and dont get me wrong i love having a little DBZ power level, but they really need to fix how ranking and rank-based match making work
I kinda just wish they just straight up used elo or glicko and put letter ranks on various thresholds and called it a day. The medals system is nice so that could just impact the points you get from a match.
here’s what i would do about splat3s ranked system:
make it so that if you go into debt, you get a rank-up battle. the difference is that, if you lose, you rank down, and if you win, you stay in your current rank. (and also fix all the other stuff)
i feel like i am just slowly increasing in rank over time and i havent hit a wall yet, im almost s+9 and i just keep going up lol i got top 3000 last season off of my x placements alone, didnt do any other matches. i feel like i just need to play more to hit a skill wall but im already at almost 700 hours so i rlly dont know whats happening. the only mode where i feel a skill wall is salmon, at vp 500 i just cant seem to go higher
I feel like when you hit -100p in anarchy there should be a series similar to the rank-up battles called redemption, and its basically the same thing but instead of ranking up when you win and nothing happen when you lose, your p gets reset back to 300 upon a win and you de-rank when you lose. and if you hit -250p (by the means of open) then you should just de-rank anyways.
Part of me wonders if this design choice was made in order to not hurt people feelings. :S
Makes me think of how Pokémon Sword and Shield ranked battles worked - assuming that X rank kind of works like Master ball rank does. So basically you play enough of ranks you can't fall down in to get to the rank where you get a known rating/ranking.
Something about it appeals to me, but I was also never an X rank player. I hope we get that soon so we can see how it works in this new ranking system
I find myself playing tower control way more than the other modes, because I feel like there you have the most control over the outcome of the match as a solo player.
Its the same objective as rainmaker, only that the movement is always more predictable, so you can keep the tower safe easier. Splat Zones differs from Tower Control and Rainmaker, because in those modes the more points you want to get, the harder it gets to archieve that (because you're closer to the enemy spawn). In Zones however, if you have objective, you also have territorial color control. Turning leads around is harder that way, because the enemy is in a advantageous position in mid (instead of disadvantagous, like in the other modes and spawn usually being more elevated). And clam blitz just doesn't work, because its the only mode where you don't have to keep one objective in mind, but two, and anybody could suddenly have a clam - and you can't keep your eyes on everybody. You could be getting a tripple by enemy base and just about to throw a power clam in, only to have the basket disappear because the last guy managed to push your own base. You can't watch all 4 enemies if they aren't pulled together by one central goal and you can't be by both baskets at once. You are dependant on teammates in a way you aren't in tower control.
I think I’ve only been at -100 points and I did manage to get out of it. I mostly stayed in Splat Zones and Tower Control. That said, I do need to work on my aggression in that I tend to get a bit too aggressive and find myself on the wrong end of a Splattershot.
honestly, negative points are a good mechanizm
I got to A- rank recently as a sticks player who uses shooters. Thats when I realized, i cant use shooters in ranked. I swapped over the the flingza roller, and might also use sloshers, as I feel those could work with their range and playstyle for a sticks player
Negative rank points are a reality check. If you got to the negative, you are doing something wrong, and you need to figure out what that is.
The weird thing about all of this for personally was how meteoric my rise to A+ was. I could use any weapon, and finish with the most splats. I think I reached it in 2 days. I still haven't made it out, though I haven't played in a month. I got frustrated because I was essentially pigeon holed into always running a .52 Gal or my team comps would be awful. I also have yet to finish a card in A+ despite finishing more than half of my games with the most splats, though I do typically die more than I'd like. I started working on that toward the end.
My other issue was hit registration. The other reason I had to use .52 was because it was a 2 shot kill. Any other weapon would invariably lead to me trading with my opponent after they died. I always, ALWAYS played on ethernet as well. But it felt like no one else did. Everyone else had the perfect amount of lag to ensure I'd trade, or they'd strafe through my fire even as I saw visible hit markers.
Perhaps it's due to living in Oregon. I absolutely loathe the matchmaking regions. It is absolutely inexcusable that the North American region comprises more than half of the globe. The fact it is possible for me to be matched with someone from Brazil, someone else from Australia, and then a New Yorker for good measure is absolutely pathetic when you consider Japan gets an ENTIRE SERVER to themselves. As does Europe, and South Korea only has to share with Hong Kong. It's insane. Perhaps it doesn't effect people on the East Coast as much, but I would regularly play with people with multiple entire seconds of lag.
And then I stopped playing in Series, and started playing Open, and all of a sudden I started dominating with any weapon I wanted again. I should mention I never came close to negative, I think the lowest I went was 600, so it wasn't the game suddenly pitying me.