About 6 years ago while attending a continuing education class the instructor asked how many of the 120 people attending owned a torque wrench. Less then 10% of us raised hands. Appears that you might have to own two small range torque drivers & two torque wrenches for large stuff. Reason for owning duplicate sets is you was told we should send them.out ever year to check calibration (send halve out the when they comeback send out the rest ). Tool & die shops that I have done electrical work I have to send out their micrometers every year to verify accuracy.
Good video... definitely a necessary topic to discuss. I bought the Wiha a while back and love it. I didn't realize how far off i was until I started using it.
Thanks Bill! I purchased the Wiha unit earlier this year and am super happy with it. It didn't come with bits, but I was able to order those separately from the Wiha website, which was very convenient.
I've used a data sheet for each piece of equipment terminated listing the terminations and required values. It is where the torque wrench(s) and its calibration date and range are documented. Also handy to mark the terminal indicating those already torqued.
We use Wiha torque screwdrivers exclusively in production for torquing inserts in machining. Bill, they also make T-handle torque wrenches for higher torque screws/bolts but not sure if they offer them in 1000V insulated or not.
I use the insulated Wiha and prefer it over the pistol grip wera. Other thing like about my wiha is the low profile bits can be used for there other multi bit screwdrivers which means don’t need to buy special bits for the torque driver as interchangeable from the low profile insulated bits from the other driver kits, pretty awesome, imo👍🏻 Cheers✌🏻
For best overlapping ranges, I recommend Wheeler FatWrench for the low range (down to 10, 5 if you can find one) GearWrench for mid range, and whatever brand you prefer for the high range. All torque tools are less accurate in their low range.
Great video, Bill. How come Klein tools or Ideal doesn't make a torque screw driver? And yes, this video was helpful. I've been eyeing that Milwaukee torque wrench too so maybe that's on my list for 2023.
i know a sparky. that he always over screwed down the wires under a breaker. told him to quick screwing down so tight. he probably still does this to this day. He would tighten them down and i would go back and of course the copper wires would be half cut through.
that M-12 torque wrench is handy for Milwaukee users. It would be great if they made torque limiting driver tips, though. then you'd just carry the right set for your particular brand of panel.
I am surprised you can leave those screw drivers set to a specific torque value as with all other spring-style click torque wrenches you must turn the torque setting back to the minimum value prior to storage to preserve their accuracy.
They are normally a part of a lighting circuit which is typically 14 g but it can be 12 g if you like. The exception would be if you had a heater with the fan/light. Then it would be wise to run a dedicated 12 g circuit to it.
@@SparkyChannel Bill, you're very welcome, everyone is talking about the 2023 code changes, and we're still on the 2017. Feel like we're being passed by....LOL
I prefer one with adjusting collar like the torque wrenches have, such as my old SK. Reason? Having a separate tool to adjust the tool looks like the same problem as the chuck key for a drill - something to get dropped, misplaced, etc.
Bill, great video, as always. My Wheeler Firearms torque screwdriver (this is what I've been using for a while) says in the manual to turn to the **third** click, not the first. Is that different in Wiha and Wera? Also, my screwdriver manual says to set the torque setting to "0" torque when storing, so as not to ruin the calibration. Wonder what those two Germans say about that...
Wiha should put a reinforced hanging hole at the end of their driver big enough that you can stick the torque set tool through it. Then you could use it like a T-handle screwdriver without any other complexity.
Question: can you explain why the ACDelco ARM601-3 3/8" Digital Torque Wrench is listed for "2 to 37 ft-lbs." but you're measuring 250 ft-lbs? Is it just certified for that lower range? How does that work?
Horrible a company cant come out with a useful design for us.. 1 doesnt screw well, one torques easier than the other, one is not insulated, one comes with a kit, one decides to have a loose key on the end. Crazy
I know what you mean. I think the best value of all of them is the ACDelco ARM601-3 3/8" Digital Torque Wrench (2 to 37 ft-lbs.), with Buzzer & LED Flash Notification - ISO 6789 Standards with Certificate of Calibration: Amazon: amzn.to/2ttNEsf But it can't do the whole range. You need a good torque screwdriver to go with it.
Personally I use a 1/4” torque wrench with a bit adapter, does 10-150 in-lb. I use a click-style wrench but I’d get a digital one if I used it more often.
You need 3 torque tools, low, medium, and high range. For ABB components, the OEM torque is much lower than tables. You want a low range of 10, even 5 in/lb.
I appreciate your wise council on compliance with the NFPA NEC but ... When I heard you say, "I was screwing it hard"; well, some with their minds in the gutter (not me mind you) might misinterpret that; you know how people are 😮. 😂
Years ago I ran #2 copper wires for two foreign made injection molding machines that had some vibration and ran 24/6. Had push in stab ins for the 480 volt wires. Told the tech doing start up that I did not want to use these POS He told me they work great. Yep first machine stab in connection burnt up in less then ten days and second set was hot & discolored.
Interesting! So you'll be changing to the 2011 NEC for 2023? That's a big change, because of neutrals being necessary in switch boxes starting 2011. It's OK though, you'll know what is coming up for you in later years.
You did the large neutral lug wrong, and violated standards. The torque is limited to a range of 90 - 100% of spec. You cannot go over. That particular torque tool should have been set to 245 to prevent going over 250.
I wouldn't recommend the insulated tool for non live terminations it would get dirty and fail faster. Best to keep it clean and out of reach till needed. I also wouldn't recommend the electric torque tool because if the battery is dead you affectively don't have a torque tool. I say these things based on doing service work for 25 years.
They actually tested the digital torque wrenches on Tools Tested a few months ago (watch?v=0_fun-C-p7E) and Project Farm (watch?v=HP4uECoH8cc) did a non-digital test back in December. The Icon that HF sells fared pretty well in the manual department and Quinn did well in the digital realm. These were an ft-lb test though, their in-lb line might not be as good. I can't stand Harbor Freight, but they do have their niches where the value and quality are on par with each other This is one.
Sparky thank you very much you do a great job of educating us.
Your videos are among the best.
Much appreciated.
My pleasure Louis!
About 6 years ago while attending a continuing education class the instructor asked how many of the 120 people attending owned a torque wrench. Less then 10% of us raised hands. Appears that you might have to own two small range torque drivers & two torque wrenches for large stuff. Reason for owning duplicate sets is you was told we should send them.out ever year to check calibration (send halve out the when they comeback send out the rest ). Tool & die shops that I have done electrical work I have to send out their micrometers every year to verify accuracy.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Good video... definitely a necessary topic to discuss. I bought the Wiha a while back and love it. I didn't realize how far off i was until I started using it.
I agree. I love my Wiha torque tool too!
Thanks Bill! I purchased the Wiha unit earlier this year and am super happy with it. It didn't come with bits, but I was able to order those separately from the Wiha website, which was very convenient.
Great to hear!
Great video Sparky.
Thanks Gary!
Excellent 👌
Thank you! Cheers!
I've used a data sheet for each piece of equipment terminated listing the terminations and required values. It is where the torque wrench(s) and its calibration date and range are documented. Also handy to mark the terminal indicating those already torqued.
Excellent tips. Thanks Paul!
Hi Bill! Great channel and topic thank you!
Thanks so much!
Great video Sparky!
Thanks!
We use Wiha torque screwdrivers exclusively in production for torquing inserts in machining. Bill, they also make T-handle torque wrenches for higher torque screws/bolts but not sure if they offer them in 1000V insulated or not.
Great information, thanks!
Suggestion! It'd be great if you covered your required PPE (boots, gloves, etc.) on some future video.
I use the insulated Wiha and prefer it over the pistol grip wera. Other thing like about my wiha is the low profile bits can be used for there other multi bit screwdrivers which means don’t need to buy special bits for the torque driver as interchangeable from the low profile insulated bits from the other driver kits, pretty awesome, imo👍🏻
Cheers✌🏻
Yes, it's a quality set.
Great stuff man I always wondered what brands was out there
Thanks!
For best overlapping ranges, I recommend Wheeler FatWrench for the low range (down to 10, 5 if you can find one) GearWrench for mid range, and whatever brand you prefer for the high range. All torque tools are less accurate in their low range.
Great video, Bill. How come Klein tools or Ideal doesn't make a torque screw driver? And yes, this video was helpful. I've been eyeing that Milwaukee torque wrench too so maybe that's on my list for 2023.
Thanks Ron! Both companies make torque screwdrivers, but they are both quite expensive.
i know a sparky. that he always over screwed down the wires under a breaker. told him to quick screwing down so tight. he probably still does this to this day. He would tighten them down and i would go back and of course the copper wires would be half cut through.
Yes, over-tightening will damage the wires or cables.
that M-12 torque wrench is handy for Milwaukee users. It would be great if they made torque limiting driver tips, though. then you'd just carry the right set for your particular brand of panel.
Great point! I think that would be great!
Is there a real advantage to using a torque screwdriver, rather than a regular screwdriver followed by a 1/4 or 3/8 torque wrench?
I am surprised you can leave those screw drivers set to a specific torque value as with all other spring-style click torque wrenches you must turn the torque setting back to the minimum value prior to storage to preserve their accuracy.
It would be best to do so IMO.
Nice Video, Wiha has a torque T-Handle at higher settings though
Excellent!
Sparky....does a bathroom vent fan with light need to be on a dedicated circuit? What gauge wire? Jeff
They are normally a part of a lighting circuit which is typically 14 g but it can be 12 g if you like. The exception would be if you had a heater with the fan/light. Then it would be wise to run a dedicated 12 g circuit to it.
Bill, some of your links aren't working or going to the wrong item. Great video and explanation of 110.14
Thanks Mark! I went through and fixed the links. thanks for the heads up!
@@SparkyChannel Bill, you're very welcome, everyone is talking about the 2023 code changes, and we're still on the 2017. Feel like we're being passed by....LOL
@@Bluesman57 This way you'll know what's coming in about 6 years. 😃
I've never torqued anything in over 40 yrs. No failures and I'm not starting now. Just a way to sell more from big corporations
I prefer one with adjusting collar like the torque wrenches have, such as my old SK. Reason? Having a separate tool to adjust the tool looks like the same problem as the chuck key for a drill - something to get dropped, misplaced, etc.
Bill, great video, as always. My Wheeler Firearms torque screwdriver (this is what I've been using for a while) says in the manual to turn to the **third** click, not the first. Is that different in Wiha and Wera?
Also, my screwdriver manual says to set the torque setting to "0" torque when storing, so as not to ruin the calibration. Wonder what those two Germans say about that...
I have a similar Wiha set but it is 10-50 inch pounds.
HI Kris! That's a nice one too.
@@SparkyChannel Hi Bill. Yes, and I paid about 100 bucks on Ebay for it brand new.
@@illestofdemall13 Wow, great price!
Where do you find the torque values?
It usually says right on the panel or device, or it is included in the manufacturer's specifications.
Receptacles and switches, depending on who the MFG is, require anywhere from 9 to 14 in-lb. That is, the ones I have looked up so far.
Some higher end leviton receptacles say 14-18.
@@Ariccio123 I worked for them for 12 years as an electrician. Thanks for posting. That's worth a thumbs up.
...and pray and hope these are calibrated and stay as such. I have one that I can barely torque to 36lb/in on a breaker. I know it must be way off
Wiha should put a reinforced hanging hole at the end of their driver big enough that you can stick the torque set tool through it. Then you could use it like a T-handle screwdriver without any other complexity.
Good thinking. It is quite difficult to torque 50+ in/lbs. with the Wiha. Something like that might help.
I was thinking a flip-out handle, but a hole works fine!
How hard is it to torque at 60 lb/in with the wiha?
Very difficult. Use a torque wrench if you can for 60 lb/in.
Question: can you explain why the ACDelco ARM601-3 3/8" Digital Torque Wrench is listed for "2 to 37 ft-lbs." but you're measuring 250 ft-lbs? Is it just certified for that lower range? How does that work?
I think you confused INCH *pounds with foot*pounds. The tool was reading INCH*pounds.
The wiha is a nice bit of kit, but every time I torque something with it i think something broke…
I understand.
Horrible a company cant come out with a useful design for us.. 1 doesnt screw well, one torques easier than the other, one is not insulated, one comes with a kit, one decides to have a loose key on the end. Crazy
I know what you mean. I think the best value of all of them is the ACDelco ARM601-3 3/8" Digital Torque Wrench (2 to 37 ft-lbs.), with Buzzer & LED Flash Notification - ISO 6789 Standards with Certificate of Calibration: Amazon: amzn.to/2ttNEsf
But it can't do the whole range. You need a good torque screwdriver to go with it.
Personally I use a 1/4” torque wrench with a bit adapter, does 10-150 in-lb. I use a click-style wrench but I’d get a digital one if I used it more often.
You need 3 torque tools, low, medium, and high range. For ABB components, the OEM torque is much lower than tables. You want a low range of 10, even 5 in/lb.
I appreciate your wise council on compliance with the NFPA NEC but ... When I heard you say, "I was screwing it hard"; well, some with their minds in the gutter (not me mind you) might misinterpret that; you know how people are 😮. 😂
The Wiha kit is almost $300!!
Yes, it is. I bought it and it stung, but I've never regretted it.
Buy once, cry once.
Funny how NEC wants every connection properly torqued, but they still allow stab lock devices to be used. They shouldn’t be allowed.
Years ago I ran #2 copper wires for two foreign made injection molding machines that had some vibration and ran 24/6. Had push in stab ins for the 480 volt wires. Told the tech doing start up that I did not want to use these POS
He told me they work great. Yep first machine stab in connection burnt up in less then ten days and second set was hot & discolored.
Good job Sparky Bill, Teach the rookies how to do it, put them in school.
Thanks John!
love the code change videos, unfortunately Hawai'i Masters Electricians license is based off the 2008 code... just want to bring light to that,
Interesting! So you'll be changing to the 2011 NEC for 2023? That's a big change, because of neutrals being necessary in switch boxes starting 2011.
It's OK though, you'll know what is coming up for you in later years.
You did the large neutral lug wrong, and violated standards. The torque is limited to a range of 90 - 100% of spec. You cannot go over. That particular torque tool should have been set to 245 to prevent going over 250.
Is this the part of the day where we pretend that any of these devices are that precise or that you have any idea what you're yammering about?
I wouldn't recommend the insulated tool for non live terminations it would get dirty and fail faster. Best to keep it clean and out of reach till needed.
I also wouldn't recommend the electric torque tool because if the battery is dead you affectively don't have a torque tool.
I say these things based on doing service work for 25 years.
Thanks, good advise!
I saw testing on the Milwaukee torque wrench and it failed miserably on the accuracy of the torques settings
Fuking awesome
Thanks Dave!
Doable with harbor freight torque wrenches right? 😂
I would say yes, but don't expect the same durability as the bigger name brands.
They actually tested the digital torque wrenches on Tools Tested a few months ago (watch?v=0_fun-C-p7E) and Project Farm (watch?v=HP4uECoH8cc) did a non-digital test back in December. The Icon that HF sells fared pretty well in the manual department and Quinn did well in the digital realm. These were an ft-lb test though, their in-lb line might not be as good. I can't stand Harbor Freight, but they do have their niches where the value and quality are on par with each other This is one.
Too much control over these screws. Just use common sense and tighten them. Can't tell the difference between 5 inch lbs and 10 in lbs