HOW TO CURE VALVE FLOAT & ADD 40-50 HP WITH A VALVE SPRING UPGRADE. AIR FLOW VS VALVE CONTROL!
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2023
- HOW TO CURE VALVE FLOAT! DO I NEED A SPRING UPGRADE? WHAT HAPPENS TO AIRFLOW OR POWER? HOW MUCH SPRING PRESSURE DO I NEED? CAN I RUN TOO MUCH SPRING PRESSURE? WHY WON'T MY MOTOR REV? ARE STOCK SPRINGS STRONG ENOUGH? DOES A HYDRAULIC ROLLER CAM NEED MORE SPRING PRESSURE THAN A FLAT TAPPET? HOW CAN I CURE VALVE FLOAT OR (MORE ACCURATELY) LACK OF VALVE CONTROL? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I CURED TWO DIFFERENT SBF COMBOS OF VALVE FLOAT WITH A VALVE SPRING UPGRADE. THE RESULTS SHOW WHAT HAPPENED TO BOTH AIRFLOW (MEASURED WITH AN AIR HAT) AND POWER. GOOD STUFF.
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Keep the ford stuff coming
@@h.h.2568 🤣 funny
Stopping valve float was my trick back in the 80s. I used to run solid flat tappet lifters on hydrolic cams. That 6200 valve float wasn't an issue often times even with a factory cam. I also did it with hydrolic lifters by taking the insides apart and flipping the center tube around.
About 8 years ago, i was traumatized by my 5.0L engine. I did a fresh rebuild with some good-used SVO "Y" aluminum heads. The guy i bought the heads from said the springs we're good for .600... I was running a .500 lift cam. My mustang had 3.73 gears, so the rpms at interstate speed was like 3300 which is too high in my opinion. Within (2) 1100 mile trips i broke 8 of the 16 valve springs 2 states from home. Thank goodness they were dual springs. Now, i bullet proof my valvetrain with proper dual springs and shaft roller rockers systems if available. Thanks for the education Mr. Holdener 💪
This is one I've been waiting for. I have inadequate springs on an LQ4 that I changed the camshaft in. It makes decent power, but definitely exhibits valve float. I found out the hard way that not all "918" springs are created equal. The PACs in the engine now are only 313 lbs open. The XR275 cam requires around 370lbs open. I should have spent the extra money and bought the Comp Cams matching valve springs from the beginning. Live and learn...
Hopefully it picks up some decent power when I change the springs and redyno. 🤞
yeah either the recommended ones or ones that are equivalent to what they require
a lot of aftermarket head manufactures have weak springs in them. every time i look up a cam and i see what spring it takes im looking at the heads and what spring they put in it. most of the time they never match.
for example. i want to run a 347 in the zephyr i have and was thinking a mid lift hydro flat tappet with 236/244 .568/.568 lift from erson would do it and make power till 6000 and shift at 6500 with a RPM air gap and double pumper
the spring in the promaxx 180 MAXX heads are max .575 lift but the open and close pressures are very similar to what erson recommends. so the rates are about the same or a little higher than the erson spring for that cam
it SHOULD work if i were to do it
As far as softer springs being "safer", I would think that if one is cutting it close on piston to valve clearance the consequences of valve float would be far more catastrophic than wiping a few cam lobes. Also, I would be interested in a test of conventional vs beehive and conical springs of similar rated spring pressures for valve control.
I second the thought on more valve spring pressure being safer, as i seen my friend's engine over rev., and valve float so severely, that it sucked a valve up through the intake manifold!
Yessir same here
I just went to a roller block. Got a 351w roller, think bout a 393w!"it's going in my 94F150 flaurside, or my 79 Fairmont wagon, 4 cylinder cat manual rack, no power boost breaks! Manual breaks?!! Fox body stuff fits! 100 shot of gas that I have! Even have rpm heads! Retired and bored to death!
As per usual Richard is on point ❤
Been waiting for some new springs(size/specs) to finally hit the merchants, can't wait to try them this year.
I'd give you 2 thumbs up if RUclips would allow it! Good info on spring rates and instability of the valves at rpm. Good to know on cheap springs too.
I had some wp heads in like 95’ with a performer and B. This is the engine I put single plane on at the same time I did Lunati cam. The springs did ok with the B but I had to buy springs for the Lunati, then I had to buy a screw style compressor because I couldnt install them with the lever handle thing that goes on rocker stud.
Love this Ford stuff❤🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟! Great information!
That reminds me of when I found a ebay deal Torquer v2 for $100 bucks I also found Some used Hi pro full race springs But they were just some wore out truck springs So I couldn't figure why my ls1 would fall on her face @6k I chased phantoms for over a year
I did you a solid and liked the video. Thanks for doing all of us a solid with all the testing you do.
So Richard do you monitor manifold vacuum on the dyno
What happen to testing summits new alphabet cams .
CAN YOU PASS SMOG WITH HOLLEY TERMINATOR ? I DONT THINK SO IN MARICOPA COUNTY AZ .IF SO THAT WOULD BE THE HOT TICKET.
My 305 in my 85 Monte Carlo SS floats the valves at 4500 rpm. The tach dances a bit at 4-4500 lol
Nice video, as always. Do you ever change roller lifters in these sbf setups. Which lifters do you use?
stock ones if they are still good or comp
🔔😎🇺🇸
With the 1.7 rockers you're getting @ .580 and .600 lift.
THAT needs some pretty stout springs.
Makes me wonder about beehives?
Richard, very timely video. I have a SBC with Comp Cams XE284 hydraulic flat tappet cam, factory heads, 9.5:1 CR, and cheap valve springs. They are 130 seat and 330 open, and the problem I'm having, like shown in your video, is the engine rolls over badly at 4600 rpms. My question is, even though the valve springs are showing the correct numbers can you get float simply from poorly manufactured springs?? ie cheap Chinese spring vs. Comp or PAC. I think I know the answer but thought I would pose the question. TIA!
THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH SPRING RATE FOR A FLAT TAPPET-BUT CHEAP SPRINGS OFTEN GO BAD AFTER 10-15 MINUTES OF RUNNING
Great stuff thank you. F y I i was like number four hundred. Did I win the engine?😅😅
Richard some years ago you mentioned a 410 cubic inch , 8.2 " deck engine . Do you have any video or dyno charts for that ? To this day it still boggles my mind . I would love to see the details on that .
that was from mpg heads
Excellent video , thankyou for all your hard work and time , i have a 1994 must. Cobra installed twisted wedge 170 cc fast as cast heads # TFS-51410002-M61 , SPRINGS TFS-16514 1.460" O.D. SINGLE W. DAMPER . 118 lbs @ 1.800" closed
305 lbs @ 1.260" open .
Seems like you said WEAK ! for a hyd. Roller.
My cam anderson Ford motorsports B-31 dur. 270/280
218/228 , lift .544"
Engine pulls really strong to 5500 rpm then falls off.
Would the comp cams springs for the XE274 FOR YOUR FAVORITE CAM DO THE TRICK ? If not can you make a recommendation?
Again thanks for your great videos i have learnd alot !
you need more spring rate
Does he not know what usually causes valve float in an old v8 engine. It's the preload in the hydrolic lifter forcing the valve off the seat. Then the engine loses power.
1990 mustang gt stock had a year now no power at all so install e303 cam long tube header still no power. So removed valve covers I can turn some valve springs by hand could they be put in upside down causing lack of power.
only a beehive could be put in upside down-otherwise dual springs are not directional
trying to narrow my issue down. losing power after 5k rpm ... question is the motor lm7 cam intake headers duel exhaust always ran good .. last night it just fell off after 5k .. would valve float just randomly happen ? build has 6k miles on it.. has always ran strong ..hoping it's fuel related but any input would be appreciated... thanks in advance
float does not usually happen like that
Have you done any tests between dual springs vs beehive springs, especially since the beehive spriings are less prone to frequency and or harmonics
beehive springs are not less prone to frequency or harmonics-their frequency is just different-I have a spring test up on ls
Would less intense lobes have an affect on how aggressive the springs are too? Like running an older cam profile so the springs dont take so much of a beating?
Absolutely, if you look at different cams you'll notice they make versions that are much more friendly to stock valve springs, that's often the major difference. It's a function of how much work a spring can do in a given time period. You have to move X mass of the valve Y distance. If you try and do that faster as in a steeper ramp rate you'll need more spring pressure to do it.
Absolutely. The nostalgia cams we fondly think of like the three fifty horse chevy cam or the l t 1 cam only used a couple of hundred pounds spring pressure
Valve spring LOAD, not pressure! Load is in LBS and pressure is in PSI
Do you think the 1.7 rocker helps rather than having a 1.6 with a larger cam? i.e. given the same .5in valve lift, is a 1.7rocker with a .294 lift cam more stable than a 1.6 rocker with a 0.313 lift cam?
more lift tends to reduce stability
Something to think about: If we look at the early horsepower graph after the better springs were in place and compare with the airflow graph with the good springs, we see that it took only a measured 550 cfm of airflow to produce 444 hp @ 6300 rpm. I'm led to believe most of us are running more carb than optimum on mild street combinations.
Part of it
Not too many people outside of a class specific race would run less than 650-750 on a 440 HP engine. I bet you won't see anyone running a 550ctm carb which some manufacturers do make on an engine like that let alone a stroker that makes that power.
Remember it's not just rated size and developed HP, the various carbs produce different atomization patterns as well, which affects power and response.
Dogleg or annular etc can make a big difference.
@@hotrodray6802 Sure, but that's a different variable.
the flow rating of the carb is not measured at the same depression that occurs in the engine.
@@richardholdener1727 I thought of that, but I couldn't think of an easy way to account for it.
OHC engines use valve springs like the OHV engines. Yet, they don't suffer from valve float until much higher in the RPM range. Why is this? The OHV has the lifter and pushrod linking the cam to the rocker. Obviously those components are the real issue that needs addressed. Placing higher pressure valve springs is just a bandaid to the problem.
THERE IS BILLION OF THESE 97-03 5.4 F150 THAT NEED BOOST AND PASS EMMISIONS HELP
✌🏽😎
Do I have the wrong cam???
I always do
Valve float at 5500, thats y u dont run flat tappet springs on roller cam, exactly what r&l engines told me 20 yrs ago
All cams are the wrong cams
How?
Probably thinking 108* LSA ?
Personally I blame squirrels...
Valve float at 5500, thats y u dont run flat tappet springs on roller cam, exactly what r&l engines told me 20 yrs ago
Valve float at 5500, thats y u dont run flat tappet springs on roller cam, exactly what r&l engines told me 20 yrs ago