I am an African from Uganda and I have been living in Italy for 8 years now. So what you said sounds about right. When I am hanging out with my Black American friends I get treated differently than when I am having out with my African friends. That being said, it's also so true about classicism. People will treat me much better when i am dressed up and in a place of high status regardless of me being black. Now when it comes to how we approach the racism issue. Yes, it's true that Africans are slower to go to racism when things happen compared to Black Americans but that goes back a lot to history.
we did not invided other countries for colonialism as French Uk Belgium did, and also Spain Portugal and Netherlands. Not us. we are friendly people With everyone and no racist at all
siamo arrivati al paradosso... questi apprezzano veramente di più chi gli ha messo le catene alle caviglie e l'anello al naso che noi che li stiamo accogliendo anche perchè gli altri europei gli hanno colonizzati e sfruttati @@giacomojamesPunkRockHeadReact 😶😶
Not one bit of lie has been said. Racism in Italy is diiferent from America because a lot of times it's small remarks, microaggresions or just those cold stares in Esselunga..... Anyway love this video
We have to agree that serious episodes has started to increase in these recent years. Outside of the coronavirus' hysteria (which is a thing the other countries are experiencing with), racist slogans are written on monuments dedicated to historical episodes and black people are getting assaulted on the street. Even if the papers are claiming that those are single cases, the number is growing slowly and if nothing serious is done on the cultural and social way there could be serious risks, moreso if the right manages to lead the government and took advantage of such sentiment in order to get the maximum support.
I dated an Italian exchange student that came to my university for a semester, and it was honestly so surprising how conservative he was. My parents are from Ethiopia and what made me break up with him were his views about Ethiopian & Eritrean immigrants living in Italy. He didn’t like talking about politics, but he told me he voted for Matteo Salvini, so I knew that I had to end things.
Vorrei spezzare una lancia a favore delle piccole città di provincia. Io faccio parte della famosa seconda generazione di immigrati (come veniamo chiamati nei talk show politici) o altresì noti come afroitaliani. Durante la prima parte della mia infanzia ho vissuto in una grande città del sud. Quando avevo 6 anni la mia famiglia si è trasferita in un paesino minuscolo del centro Italia, dove tutti si conoscevano e dove eravamo le uniche persone nere. Non sono mai stata trattata in maniera diversa dagli altri. Sono stata presa in giro? Sì, ma come tutti e solo dai bulletti che prendevano in giro tutti i diversi: dal bambino grassottello a quello con i capelli rossi. Crescendo sono diventata una del paese...tutti mi conoscevano e conoscevano i miei genitori. E quando ho preso la cittadinanza a 18 anni(cosa assurda se posso dire) ho avuto più problemi a reperire i documenti dalla grande città che dal mio piccolo paesino di provincia, dove l'amministrazione si è prodigata per me. Non dico che è così ovunque anzi...ma io il razzismo l'ho vissuto sulla mia pelle molto di più nelle città più grandi dove i rapporti sono meno stretti. Per i miei compaesani sono sempre stata italiana. Si sono stupiti del fatto che dovessi attraversare un iter burocratico per essere vagamente considerata tale.
Grazie! Che bel post... un po' di speranza! Spero che tu resterai in Italia, non solo perché sei italiana, ma perché tu ci possa aiutare a costruire una società migliore, più curiosa ed aperta. Solo così potremo superare razzismo e xenofobia. Per altro conosco molti giovani con storie simili alla tua e tanta intelligenza e voglia di fare: credo che voi siate un'enorme risorsa per l'Italia. E molti giovani che conosco non fanno alcuna distinzione sulla provenienza dei genitori per distinguere tra italiani e non: ho molto più fiducia nella vostra generazione che nella mia!
@@mimmiblu6138 Non ho intenzione di espatriare...ho avuto la possibilità e non l'ho fatto. Primo perché sarebbe come darla vinta a quelli che urlano tornatene al tuo paese (spoiler...questo è il mio paese, nel bene e nel male. Se c'è chi non lo accetta è un problema suo e non certo mio). Secondo perché come dice Tia, io vivo nella mia bolla. Nel mio paesino sto bene, la gente mi rispetta ed è capitato che mi difendesse. Mi sentirei persa in una grande città estera. Come mi disse mia zia una volta "ovunque andrai sarai una giovane donna nera...non c'è nessun posto nemmeno l'africa dove è facile esserlo" Terzo qualcuno dovrá pure provare a cambiarlo questo povero paese...
@@cassandravision sono contenta di questo: ho un figlio giovane e sono felice che ci siano persone come te e come i tuoi compaesani: neanche per un ragazzino bianco è bello crescere in un paese razzista ed ignorante che giudica la gente sulla base del colore della pella o della provenienza e non sulla base del comportamento del singolo individuo perché imparerà che è normale la discriminazione... oppure si vergognerá della mentalità media. È importante che le cose cambino, ed in fretta, per il bene di tutti gli Italiani, di qualsiasi colore siano.
Non ne avevo idea. Questo video e questi commenti sono mind-blowing per me. Grazie che ci fai vedere un altro aspetto della nostra società - di cui sapevo poco o niente.
Ma infatti è trasversale, credo abbia a che fare con la coscienza delle singole persone e le "tradizioni" di famiglia nonostante le condizioni sociali determinino diversi modi e intensità di espressione del razzismo. E poi c'è la questione dell'epoca, una volta le classi medie e alte erano di norma conservatrici e di vedute arcaiche, mentre in quelle basse c'era un fermento ideologico molto forte derivato dagli ideali del socialismo e dalla prassi soprattutto dei comunisti che hanno come un pilastro l'innalzamento culturale di suddette classi per renderle autocoscienti e dunque rivoluzionarie. Oggi si è (sempre parlando in termini ampi) capovolta la situazione. Molti circoli dell'alta società si definiscono progressisti (con una buona dose di ipocrisia e distacco dalla realtà attuale, però) mentre le classi medio-basse si sono spostate a destra e dunque a una chiusura verso l'esterno e il diverso molto più accentuata di una volta...Questo non impedisce che a seconda del territorio, anche piccoli paesi abitati da persone modeste non possano per vari fattori essere realmente inclusivi....Bisognerebbe individuare le dinamiche che determinano l'intolleranza in generale e cercare di fare qualcosa a riguardo per estirparla....
Honestly, from a Spaniard who has left the country, get out of Spain. Spain is a shithole and it's very racist. People used to stare at my mom like crazy and even the spanish police tried to take us away from her for you know what. When you start looking up other european countries you end up realising you gotta move and that Spain is the worst european country ever to exist. Btw I'm 15
Hi Tia, your description of racism in Italy is absolutely accurate, as an Italian I couldn't have found better words. I just wanna highlight how much the italian kind of racism is not that much related to skin color or nationality. It's linked to classism most of all. Till not much time ago most north Italians were racist with southerners because they were much poorer and used to emigrate to the North. Then when I was a kid racism was against Romanians and Albanians because they were the "poor people coming from the east". I think racism against black people or Islamic people wasn't a thing cause there were very very few of them at that time. Now things have changed so much, there are more people with southern roots here in the North than "pure" northeners, Romanians and Albanians are much more integrated...so Italians' hatred and racism has only found new "victims" now. Anyways I really hope that in the next years the situation will get better and the new generations will be more open minded than the old ones. Black Italians, Arab Italians, asiatic Italians DO EXIST and they will be part of our national identity more and more. People will eventually start accepting that, hopefully.
It will only change if it's acknowledged and dealt with. In America it has not changed....They choose to segregate themselves and sanitize the history......It's been going on for 400 years.....
Intanto complimenti per l'inglese, in secondo luogo io adesso non so in che regione del nord vivi, ma qui in Friuli, dove vivo, gli unici posti con cui puoi parlare con "gente decente" sono le città perché nei paesini (ergo il 90% della Regione) o sono tutti salviniani non moderati, oppure sono apertamente fascisti (e quindi tutto lo schifo legato a mussolini etc...) ✌️
"Italians feel threatened by change, in general". Amen!!!! Very very true. Historians have interesting theories onto why that is the case but regardless it is clear that it is something as a country we need to work on. Thank you for sharing your insights, i find your opinions always very well articulated and it's clear you took the time to understand what you've been observing and express your points with respect.
@@MANthe93 but change is inevitable if change never happens we would never develop as a human race. At one point in history, all the continets were combined together a pangea it was called. Did the lands hurl abuse when the oceans parted them? It's hard not to be facetious but I generally dislike people's aversion to change, in this case the Greeks fell for the Romans to rise.
Bhe abbiamo inventato tante di quelle cose, dall'arte alla scienza, che se il cambiamento c'avesse fatto così paura, non avremmo mai potuto inventare (motore a scoppio, radio, note musicali, ecc) Il discorso socio politico che fa è sbagliato, lei fa l'errore del classico "radical-chic" di sinistra, che guadagna bene, fa una vita agiata, e non nota che in Italia, la maggior parte della gente che vota, guadagna poco , vive in condizioni non di lusso, è sommersa da problemi, pensieri , burocrazia ecc, e vedersi arrivare centinaia di migliaia di profughi l'anno, quando lo stato non riesce nemmeno a dare un lavoro e dare da mangiare a tutti gli italiani, effettivamente fa uscire fuori la parte peggiore del Paese, ma in questo sbaglia la politica, soprattutto quella di sinistra, che è stata poco ponderata nel gestire l'immigrazione e ha dato modo alla Lega di diventare il primo partito italiano.
Not true. We love change we don't love to have become a minority that has no rights anymore. Illegal immigrants have more rights that citizens have and we are pretty tired of it. Yup!
Thank you for speaking on thr nuances of the black experience especially as relates to racism in Italy. As a Kenyan student studying here I also think how "well" you speak English matters and I guess that ties into everything you have said about being a Western black vs an African black and whether you're "poor" or not. I have gotten surprised looks when I say I am from "Africa Africa" (born and bred on the continent) yet I "speak English so well". Keep up the great content👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
yes about africa its true, we think it probably poor, cause in Africa are poor, ma nothing of spec in general… small clarification Italian people feel threatened by Italian beauty posters with a black cover, because they are aware that there is a "forcing" to change the country, against their will, it is not a phenomenon to favor the country is this is the point, politics in Italy is a disaster as I told you and some politicians have no interest in making the country grow. It also happened with Miss Mondo, they won a short-haired black woman who spoke of sexism, it is not a coincidence ... they create characters and slogans to encourage people to change their point of view, they also pay actors to spread certain messages, lately you will have noticed too.
I'm a mixed light-skinned third-culture kid who grew up in the US but is now living in Italy (as my dad is Italian and we decided to move back so that university would be more affordable) and you hit the nail on the head when it comes to the "dark" experience. I've experienced all three faces of Italian racism, from being the American celebrity to the Brazilian "less-than" to the non-existant Italian minority. I've definitely developed coping mechanisms, from calling my mom and just speaking in English when I'm being looked at funny to having a much more assertive and no-bs attitude with strangers, but microaggresions happen on the daily. I initially moved to a small city in provincial Liguria and have since moved to Rome, which is much, much better in the racism regard, but it's still present, it's just less black and white.
Im British Italian Sicilian and Moroc and racism is quite common all over Italy. Ive been perhaps 15 ish times and with me and by having Italian blood i just understand Italian culture and the common notion there with dark skinned people is what you have mentioned above, but also the idea blacks and all the other migrants just dont appreciate true Italian culture and ive noticed that a lot.
What a bunch of bolloks. To me you all self convince yourselves and the see racism everywhere even if one ask you the time. LOL Also if it was that hard to stay here you'd have already gone away. Duh.
It also depends how you look. I’m half italian and half African, but I look more Moroccan and the discrimination on that particular group is fierce. I see that when they mistake me for one. 😕
Grey Price I was not referencing geography. I was referencing ethnicity. So don’t start being petty on stuff that’s unrelated. You just made yourself look ignorant. Have a good day.
This video makes me so sad. I'm from the south of Italy, and I think that the situation is even worse. My boyfriend is black, and he moved to France two years ago because of the depression. In Sicily there is no job and there isn't respect for black people. I hate the way sicilian people look at black people, it makes me feel angry and so ashamed. If I could make a wish, I would like people to become intelligent enough to understand that there are no differences. I am so sorry that you have to live thinking about this kind of problems, it's a huge injustice...
@SatinDoll There is no job in general. And even if you get a job, most of the time you will be paid less, your schedules won't be respected, you will work without an employment contract. This is true for Sicilians, but for black people is even worse. Employers don't trust them, and exploit them as if they were object without dignity. So, for black people is almost impossible to find a job in which you are respected as a human being and nobody makes "jokes" about your skin color. Most of the Sicilians are deeply racist (and this is one of the reason I hate my country so much), and things are going even worse in the last few years. These are the things seen from my personal point of view
@SatinDoll every region in Italy has his own dialect, and they are all very different. For me it's impossible to understand a northern dialect, and viceversa. But don't worry for that :)
This is hands down the best video I have ever seen about racism in Italy. I'm so thankful that finally someone has talked so honestly about this topic. Wish every italian could see it.
The lump in your throat that you described when considering the plight of black Italians, I got that same lump in my throat from listening to this video. As an indigenous European I feel a visceral anger at how our continent has let down the groups of people you describe in this video. Both the relative newcomers like yourself as well as the Europeans of more recent family lineage, like the black Italians. I live in Scotland. The political currents that have swept much of Europe have been resisted somewhat here. We decisively voted against Brexit, for example. But that's only a small mercy and I'm certainly not complacent. I listen to the experiences of black Scots and where I can, I spread the word about the changes that need to be made. I don't know what to say. I'm angry. I'm embarassed. But we'll keep struggling for the society we want together. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it was an illuminating listen.
No country should have more than 5% non native population. That's when problems arise and the native are right if they don't accept the immigrants, especially when they are pretty much colonizing the other countries in big groups.
And remember, the native people don't want the immigrants, they don't owe them anything. You don't like the treatment? Feel free to leave, it's not the native people begging them to stay :)
@@Cavolfipriecapperi fool so what about italians living in germany in europe u should they deal with the same bullshit lie the blacks in italy are dealing with
There's a lot of racism in Italy and it comes in many forms, both aggressive and subtle. I'm a white, non Italian, been here 10 yrs, and even though I've received racial abuse as a foreigner, it's pales into insignificance compared to minority groups, especially towards Black Africans and Muslims. A recent story shocked me and even though I don't usually let things like this affect me, because there are idiots like this all over the world, this one hit me in the gut. This happened a couple of months ago. A young black teenager, BORN IN ITALY, committed suicide because the community he grew up in would not accept him as an Italian. To the point that they chose not to shop at his place of work due to the fact he was black. After years of this degradation and being so lonely and isolated he chose to take his life. Apparently Italians still can't see they have a problem.
Yes, and the problem is too many of them here from Africa. In the 80's africans here were welcomed because they didn't have invaded our country yet, I can remember. To each his home.
I think I've said it many times before, I would never live in any Italian city besides milan and one reason is the lack of ethnic diversity/integration in those cities vs milan.
Non commento quasi mai i video, però mi sento di dire che Tia ha fatto un'analisi impeccabile. Io vivo a Verona e faccio parte dell'ultimo gruppo che ha citato e ho avuto la fortuna di conoscere altri neri, e non solo, della cosiddetta "seconda generazione" che hanno avuto esperienze simili alle mie in diverse città italiane, da Nord a Sud. Mi azzarderei a dire che Milano è una "bubble" perché il problema razzismo ha tinte meno forti rispetto a città meno multietniche e popolate, come invece se ne trovano nel resto d'Italia
@neldot da napoletana, condivido pienamente quanto hai puntualizzato. Anzi, volendo pure dire di più, mi sentirei di affermare che la connotazione classista del razzismo all'italiana (molto presente a Milano), a Napoli è praticamente nulla. Con questo non vogliamo certo dire che a Napoli il razzismo non esiste ma piuttosto che ha connotazioni fortemente diverse rispetto al resto d'Italia, ed essendo comunque la seconda più grande città d'Italia fa parte di quelle "bolle" (come Roma e Milano) che rappresentano gli umori del paese reale solo fino a un certo punto.
@neldot si in effetti al nord c'è una mentalità molto più classista, posso confermare, e siamo molto legati al fatto di migliorare il nostro stile di vita, guadagnando di più per ricevere maggior rispetto.. O per lo meno è quello che riguarda la mia esperienza.
That's absolutely correct! Here in Italy, the racism is based on classism mostly, not on the shade of your skin. It DOES exist, but I've never realized that because I grew up in a middle-upper class family which was very open-minded and I've always had a lot of "black" friends. Growing up I got closer to politic and I realised that in Italy (also because of the politic situation) there's a lot of racism, but no one wants to admit that. I'm pretty sure that with the next generations, like mine (I'm 16 rn) the situation will get better and the racism will be defeated almost everywhere in Italy, I really hope that. thanks a lot for this video
What amount of nonsenses you wrote..... Omg Than i saw you have 16 yo and i understand the reason of your childish and incorrect statement.... Italy is perhaps the most warm and nice place for foreingners.... You need to grow up a little bit and Than see, how the sit is in other country and you will see with your own eyes, how kind italians People are....
@@bluesoul7163 Foreigners include migrants from poor African countries too, you know. And the fact that Giorgia Meloni has 14% of votes in the most recent surveys doesn't prove your point for sure
@@Hastdupech8509 in tutta Europa la destra radicale ha più consensi rispetto all' Italia.... La Meloni cosa poi? È chiaro la gente la vota, è una delle poche che ancora dubita di questa Europa delle banche e delle misure assurde per questa psicopandemia.... Ma poi l' Italia è il Paese che accoglie più migranti, che li tratta meglio e dove hanno più libertà... Pure quelle di delinquere... Prova a far entrare lo stesso numero che entrano da noi, in Francia o Germania e ti rendi conto di chi è razzista..... Siamo esterofili noi italiani e per niente razzisti per la stragrande maggioranza... Specie se confrontati con altri Paesi Occidentali...
@@Hastdupech8509 Ps devi guardare sul dizionario la differenza tra immigrazione legale e clandestina.... All' estero ancora hamno una parvenza di legalità, da noi entra chiunque.... Tanfo è un business.... Svegliaaaa
@@bluesoul7163 Stranieri sono anche i migranti. Punto. Se gli italiani sono diffidenti verso gli stranieri, clandestini e non, se dicono che c'è un'invasione e fomentano la xenofobia, non dire che l'Italia è il Paese che li accoglie meglio perché semplicemente stai dicendo la solita balla colossale degli italiani brava gente in salsa contemporanea. L'Italia non accoglie neanche più migranti di tutti se questo è quello che pensi veramente, neanche in percentuale rispetto alla popolazione. P.S.: il potere decisionale ridotto dell'Europa è causa proprio dell'ultradestra come quella di Giorgia che strepita ogni volta che si cerca di darne di più, accusando di cedere la sovranità e bla bla bla. Fate pace col cervello: volete che l'Europa sia efficiente e ci tuteli con misure per la pandemia facendo uso di poteri molto ampi, però nel contempo non volete concederli. Sull'Europa delle banche non commento, è chiaro che da sostenitore di FdI per te il razzismo in Italia non esista, così come tante altre cose
I read an article the other week where a black-American exchange student went to Italy with her caucasian classmates, she said that when she was in Italy, people would cross the road to avoid her, a woman stared at her and screamed, people would refuse to give her directions and a man threw a beer in her face by a pool and no one got up to defend her, just a quiet look of sympathy from an African migrant that was within her view, some people were verbally racist with her too. It broke my heart reading that, I'm mixed race & my Mother is a black woman, if this ever happened to her, it would destroy me inside, it as such a sad article to read.
Great video. Coming from the UK (London) black british. I am love going all over Italy for holidays. ( I am a bit of an Italiaphile) I had never experienced any racism when there. Its so weird, but I could always feel that they could tell I was from England. Probably it was the way I present myself or the way I acted, but I was always treated differently in a positive way...
People respect foreign blacks from the uk. I’ve experienced this a lot, once I say I’m from London(I actually live in Berkshire). I get preferential treatment it’s weird lol
@@swiitdoll Same here. I started going to Italy in the 80's and can say that Italian friends are true friends and friends for life. Im a Londoner and dont have one white english friend. Its true friendship with italian people, they accept you as an equal whereas White people tolerate you but your not the same as them because your clearly not English.. I've been places where they have never set eyes on a black person, as long as you are armed with a modicum of Italian can communicate then you are fine. IM 55 now and still travel backwards and forwards to Rome , Sardegna.etc. I find the plight of the Africans on the street disturbing though because you don't see that in the UK.
@@swiitdoll it's the way you present yourself. Usually from experience, I can say that they don't care as long as you act "normal". As long as you aren't a bad person, you should be totally fine. The same thing goes for every foreigner, regardless of ethnicity or country.
penso che qui il razzismo non sia evidente come in altri paesi, ma sia silenzioso, esiste ma nessuno vuole ammettere che sia un problema pensando che sia peggio in altri paesi. io sono nata in latino america, ma visto che i miei nonni erano europei, non ho il "classico" aspetto che ci si aspetterebbe. il problema che abbiamo sempre affrontato io e la mia famglia è quando dicevamo di non essere nati in italia perchè subito ci categorizzavano come stranieri anche se abbiamo la cittadinanza italiana e viviamo qui da 11 anni. in generale sento che il razzismo si manifesti quando le persone pensano che tu sia una minaccia per la loro economia o quando hanno paura che l'italia possa essere vista negativamente per colpa tua. Io personalmente ho sentito la discriminazzione per il mio ingresso economico, poi quando saltava fuori che ero pure argentina ciaone..... adesso ci limitiamo a dire che siamo spagnoli, visto che è più accettato e dobbiamo fingere di far parte della classe media
Verissimo. Però vorrei fare una menzione importante che nessuno qui si rende conto. Fino agli anni 90, vedere in giro una persona di altri paesi era RARISSIMO. Cioè andavi in giro ed assumevi che tutti quelli che incontravi erano italiani, quindi facevi italiani = bianchi = italiani. Poi successivamente è iniziata in modo serio l'immigrazione dove molti scappavano da situazioni problematiche ed alcuni non si adattavano (minoranza) ad uno stile di vita totalmente differente. Quindi l'italiano medio faceva questa assimilazione straniero colore o non da italiano quindi, non sono italiani (magari lo erano dalla nascita). Ancora oggi in certi paesi limitrofi dove non vedi neanche uno straniero (esistono) ti guardano male a prescindere se non sei uno del posto. Ora il problema principale che molti hanno secondo me, è la paura di perdere la cultura italiana (quella buona) in favore di una certa "globalizzazione". Se notate molti commentano dicendo "non si adattano o non si comportano come noi", quell'affermazione sottintende che loro vogliono che tu ti assimili alla società. Ora in America il concetto è diverso perché fin dal principio la cultura Americana è stata sinonimo di "integrazione tra culture diverse" che quindi con tutta la fatica (ricordiamoci che sono passati anni ed anni prima che gli afro-americani arrivassero ad una ricognizione come giusto che sia) dove qui la cultura è una sola.
@@ripp102 capisco quello che dici e sono d'accordo con te, probabilmente questa potrebbe essere una delle radici del problema attuale. trovo assurdo che in certi contesti si venga discriminati per le proprie origini, che alla fine non dovrebbero essere così importanti tanto da limitare una persona. come hai detto tu questo è un periodo di transizione che sta affrontando l'italia a causa della globalizzazione, tuttavia non penso che sia del tutto giustificabile dato che adesso ci troviamo in altri tempi, in teoria più avanzati, quindi ci si aspetterebbe un'altra reazione tenendo di conto anche cos'è successo nella storia. questa mentalità viene trascinata dalle persone anziane o comunque quelle che vivono rinchiusi nella propria bolla ed il fatto che il governo ed i mezzi di comunicazione promuovano questa visione aggrava soltanto la situazione
@@nu.bee13 Si anche. Il discorso è che attualmente il governo per me (sono millennial) sa di vecchio. Cioè è composto da persone che escono da un periodo per così dire antico. È uguale al periodo della prima guerra mondiale dove, i generali di allora erano rimasti ad un modo di fare guerra antiquato che ha causato ai soldati italiani immense sofferenze perché non erano per niente preparati al cambiamento tecnologico/militare che la prima guerra mondiale ha portato. Allo stesso modo oggi, abbiamo dei politici che per il loro torna conto personale diffondono un certo "allarmismo" per ottenere voti facili ed "offuscare" la mente del popolo (perché popolo ignorante = popolo controllabile e prevedibile). Io nel mio piccolo cerco e cercherò sempre di innalzare la cultura delle persone che mi sono accanto nella speranza che un piccolo gesto possa portare in futuro ad un cambiamento in positivo.
Io invece sono venezuelana ed i miei nonni erano italiani quindi ho la cittadinanza. Personalmente non ho mai subito episodi di razzismo perché a priori le persone pensano sempre che io sia italiana, e quando dico che sono nata e cresciuta in Venezuela sento sempre lo stesso commento ''ma non sembri latinoamericana''. Io cerco sempre di spiegare che non c'è un archetipo del latinoamericano, che siamo troppo variegati e che puoi trovare persone con qualsiasi colore della pelle, e c'è chi ne prende atto e reagisce in modo positivo come c'è a chi non frega assolutamente niente. So di essere molto fortunata sul fatto di non aver subito mai discriminazione nei miei confronti, e mi dispiace un sacco quello che racconti. Penso però che la maggior parte delle persone parta solo da luoghi comuni che sono sbagliati perché non conoscono altro, e che se ti poni davanti a loro nel modo giusto, magari puoi anche correggerli e fargli cambiare il modo di vedere le cose.
I'm a black Italian, and thank you for explaining how I feel about racism in a country in which I consider part of, but my other fellow neighbors don't think I am.
Totally agree with everything that has been said in the video, but there is a piece of info missing and that can explain further this shift in perception. The climate around the black community has changed and got worse also because of the refugee crisis in the last couple of years. There is an immediate association unfortunately that now is made towards black people escaping a difficult situation in Africa Sabsarhian and the economic cost that comes with it for European countries. This aspect should not be underestimated. It would be helpful if the narrative of the news related to immigration would be different, more focused on the positive. Media are a powerful tool, they "teach us" what to be mad about, what to care about...ever wonder why some sports are popular in some countries and not in others, it all come down to media coverage.
Perfect explained!! great video!! I am half Italian an half Croation and I was born and raised in Switzerland and I would say that the racism in Switzerland is similar to the racism you talk about in this video. Love your content. Love from Switzerland
I'm from Brazil, and despite the fact that here a huge part of the population are of black and racism exist in a very structured way, if you are a black person from thw western world and come here to live, probably you would have the same results if you are inside of a bubble as you said. If you step out of the your zone, and get into the real world all the prejudices starts to appear.
Hi Tia - I never comment on anything but I felt compelled to after viewing this video. You really hit the nail on the head compared to the last video you did on the topic (which I didn’t agree with). It’s clear you lived and experienced Italy more fully. As a black Italian/third culture kid with a west African mother and American/Caribbean father it rang painfully true. It really angers me when people treat you terribly when they think you’re African and then change their attitude when they find out you’re a western black person 😒 I ran away from Italy the first chance I got when I turned 18 (to Northern Europe) but it makes me so happy to see you thriving in a place where it’s seemingly impossible. Keep up the great work on your channel!
But if somebody put an Italian on the cover of a Nigerian or Angolan magazine and said “this is Nigerian beauty” black people would react the same way.
Italian expat here. I'm ideologically light years away from the Lega average voter. In the political spectrum, I am really far from conservatives, and I think that changing is a crucial fact to development. However, I feel the strong need to bring up a point that many often seem to overlook: developing towards the integration of new ethnicities should not necessarily mean changing the Italian culture. Our tradition is not just something old that we like to revive here and there with local sagre di paese, it's our identity and the most precious thing we have to offer to the market!! I am saying this because so many Italian hipsters refuse the Italian culture and want Italy to look and act as the USA or as Scandinavian nations. But that completely misses a big point: we are not northeners!! We are people of the Mediterranean, we are passionate, we spend years of our lives cooking for our families, and most importantly, we value relax and godersi la vita. The path that many suggest is to become a pragmatic, northener-like country, when in fact that would just annihilate our culture making us become just one among many other countries in the world, and that is marketing and economically wise stupid. The solution is to integrate newcomers and their children to the Italian culture, making them learn local languages like Sicilian and Venetian and watching them grow as Italians, Italians who love Italy and who for that reason will make Italy grow to its full potentials. In this view, Ius Culturae and Ius Soli are great ideas. So in conclusion, we should not "adapt Italy to the modern times" but we should adapt modern times to Italy.
Really liked this comment. It is the right perspective. Italian culture is our most valuable asset, we should work to make immigrants Italian and at the same time embrace their diversity
100% correct. It's all well and good when you only mix with the liberal, middle-class, urban, cosmopolitan classes where you are recognised as one of them. It's a different ballgame when get out of that protected social enclave and people don't know you are a professional expat from the US but mistake you for one of the many undocumented African immigrants that hang around Italy's train stations. In any case, at the bottom of the Italian ethnic pecking order are not blacks, but people who may look not all that different from Italians: Muslims and Roma
Vendemmia you literally sound like someone who dislikes Italian culture and wants to replace it not change it. You sound like the ‘diversity’ no country wants.
@@foreverdumb7381 the problem of italians has nothing to do with culture and a lot to do with ignorance. Italian culture is deeply founded in diversity. and I am not "diversity", I am italian too so I cannot sound like the diversity no country want.
I'm African and my plan is to visit Italy in the future to explore the beauty of it, but always was scared of racism bc for some reason i thought it would be worse in Italy idk
I'm 20 and I live in Venice and from what I see, what you said applies perfectly here too, even though I'm not sure about the situation of italian-africans, because I think they are considered as fully Italians. I'm white and I was born here so I've never faced race issues and obvuoiusly I'm talking for my generation. What I wanted to tell you is to keep in mind that if you'll have kids my generation will be the one at the government, a much more aware one, so hopefully your kids won't have to live in the same type of society you live in. We can't do much for the older generations, our grandmas and grandpas, because most of them were brought up with a fascist mentality in the Mussolini era (and after he died the culture remained of course), you just need to look at how the Etiopia campains were organized, the posters fascists hung in the cities that were extremely racist, but I do think we are getting better, generation after generation. I'm positive that we're headed the right way.
I am an english white expat and though people think being white is rosy but italians dont like english. I was abused in hospital like not givng me any premed before a serious op ordering me around. Endoscopy without any aneasthetic,husband is irish and italians like irish treat his totally differentally, you dont need tobe black to be abused, or snubbed. Italians wont employ non italians we worked fo othet expats as gardeners.
Very interesting! I would say your point of view is the same for Spain today. As an African-Spanish woman, it is very interesting to see how people's reactions change when I am known for my UK upbringing or if they know I am African & Spanish (Spanish nationality too)... BIG difference. Sad but all you said makes sense, I can see how this would apply to Italy too. Great honest video! Also, love your hair :)
Your experience is your own and I'm happy that you're doing well and are not experiencing racism However I would be careful saying you are speaking for "blacks" in general. You are financially stable, a westerner, and live in Milan which as you said is diverse
She didn't say that she didn't experienced racism, she said the opposite, she said she experienced racism in Italy, she also talked about it in another video.
Anch'io non sono molto d'accordo sul fatto che un posto come Milano (come altre città del nord), in quanto più aperto e multiculturale, sia meno razzista di posti magari più piccoli al centro o al sud. Per la cronaca, io sono piemontese e vivo a Torino. Io vorrei aggiungere qualcosa raccontandovi quanto segue. Parliamo di almeno 30 anni fa. Nel paesino di montagna dove trascorro le mie vacanze, veniva sempre un marocchino a vendere le sue mercanzie. Faceva il giro dei paesi. Quando arrivava, prima di tutto veniva fatto entrare, gli veniva dato da bere e da mangiare se era ora di pranzo, e poi esponeva le sue cose, e così passava di casa in casa. Soprattutto gli anziani dimostravano questo atteggiamento. Parlo di persone alcune molto chiuse, montanari culturalmente limitati, che spesso passavano il tempo a litigare fra loro in dialetto per delle czzate di vicinato. Ma verso lo straniero, di colore, sì c'era un po' di diffidenza, ma prevalevano valori come l'ospitalità, l'accoglienza e anche un po' di curiosità. Questo deve far riflettere. Forse non è un fatto tanto culturale o di arretratezza. L'elemento che prevale oggi in Italia è la paura. Percepiamo la realtà attraverso paura e incertezza. Talora ingiustificate. Quando Salvini si vantava di una riduzione di omicidi e reati nell'ultimo anno, portava furbescamente dati che in realtà seguono un trend costantemente positivo da decenni, nonostante l'immigrazione. Siamo oggettivamente più sicuri ma percepiamo maggiore insicurezza. Guardate adesso le reazioni per il Coronavirus. Questa paura è usata da alcuni personaggi politici come un'arma di propaganda e viene alimentata. Non parlo solo di Salvini. Pensiamo al seguito che hanno certi gruppi di estrema destra nella periferia di Roma per esempio, dove si vivono situazioni di forte degrado economico e sociale. Altro esempio è il modo in cui si danno le notizie oggi. I titoli dei telegiornali sono accompagnati da stacchi musicali studiati per creare ansia. Si vende meglio il proprio prodotto a chi ha paura. Io penso che la crescita del razzismo in Italia vada di pari passo con la crescita della paura, una paura cosmica, esistenziale, spesso priva di senso.
Fanno leva sulle paure ataviche, e la xenofobia purtroppo è una di esse, biologicamente parlando non è diversa dalla mia paura delle galline e dei cigni...
Succedeva la stessa cosa da mia nonna (Calabria)..ricordo che quando ero molto piccola c'era un uomo di origine marocchina che veniva di casa in casa a vendere vestiti insieme al figlio (che poi prese il suo posto) e veniva trattato bene nonostante l'ignoranza galoppante dell'epoca.
Le grandi città italiane, con l'eccezione forse di Napoli, sono generalmenre più razziste dei piccoli centri di provincia. Io vengo da un piccolissimo paesino del Sud dove già negli anni '90 c'erano intere famiglie di marocchini, albanesi e rumeni perfettamente integrate nel tessuto sociale ed economico. Mai registrati episodi di intolleranza, né di tipo razziale né di altro tipo (già vent'anni fa avevamo due transessuali, di cui uno rom, anche loro del tutto integrati e rispettati).
I’m a Black American and I lived in turkey and Serbia. I’ve experienced racism in those countries and when I call some of them out on it. They will say I didn’t call you the n word. There a several ways to be racist. Even when I had met Africans that weren’t Americanized they were okay with these racist acts from them. They were approving it which was making me feel crazy.
I think is not really about the rasism, is about a teritory. If you are Black or Yellow, it doest not take a genious, to find out that you are a stranger...Is sort of basic teritorial instinc, similar think would happen in most countries, I guess. I know it is hard to take....but human in general are teritorial..
It's so weird for me to hear all of this and recognise stereotypes that I've been taught since i was a kid. What you said resonates with the mindset and ideas that Italians generally have about black people and minorities in general. I've never thought about it that much, but it's scary how the way you see other groups is deeply rooted into you, whether you want it or not, and it depends on the cultural environment you were raised in. Luckily, I would say a lot of people are able to distance themselves from the first (possibly racist) thought that automatically comes into their mind and be rational
As always you covered the issue beautifully, deeply and with intelligence. I'd like to add one thing, if you travel enough and integrate enough in other societies you realize that every country has some form of racism, like North Africans can be racist towards black Africans, black Africans are racists towards other black Africans of other regions/countries, or they can be racist towards asians, or towards white Europeans. Germans and British can be racist towards Italians, and so on. Anyway, to me, what your parents though is true, those were a..holes, because basically that's what a racist is ;)
I totally agree with you, you have the same thing in countries or cities like Dubai, they dont care about the fact you are black, but you will be treated worst or well as per the country you are coming from, if you are black from a developped or western country you will be treated much better than coming from a poor country. How silly is our world!!! God Helps Us!!
Aggiungo il mio pensiero ponderato su questo argomento. Abito in un piccolo paesino, sin da quando ero piccola le persone di colore per me erano Eddie Murphy e Will Smith. Poi alle volte andando a fare la spesa con i miei genitori vedevo altre persone di colore fuori dai supermercati a chiedere elemosina. Sono cresciuta e all'università le uniche persone di colore che vedevo erano turisti o mendicanti e questo come dicevi giustamente tu ha creato la differenza Americano/Nigeriano, solo per una questione economica. Adesso i bambini a scuola hanno come compagni di classe bambini di colore e non solo, cinesi, arabi etc etc. Io sono convinta che questa cosa porterà (non nell'immediato purtroppo...) alla consapevolezza ed all'accettazione. Siamo un popolo molto radicato nelle sue convinzioni, non siamo cattivi ma è da poco, soprattutto nelle province, che ci stiamo affacciando ad una realtà che è normale in altri paesi del mondo... con gli italiani ci vuole pazienza!! :)
I'm a white Brazilian that lived in Italy for three years, at the begging I didn't knowed Italian and I was communicating in English, and I was thereated so well. Than I started to learn and speak Italian and also to work in less paid jobs, like babysitting, the treatment was huge different! As a South American, I felt that some Italians are ignorant about my culture and even being white I've felt xenophobia sometimes, for having an accent, for being from a not developed country.
I have live in Italy for nearly 8 years, and i can agree with all this lady said in this video. It could be a nightmare to integrate sometimes in Italy. And wait 10 years to ask the citizen is a lot of time if you compare with Germany or Spain. Good video.
I'm italian and I totally agree with you, I only want to add one more thing. In Italy first black people appeared a few dozen years ago. I really think that Italians are not racist beacause they hate black people but only because they don't know them. I really don't know anyone who knows black people that is also racist. When you don't know something you can easily be influenced by television and politicians, who unluckily nowadays are doing a huge campaign against immigration
Green Parrot Sorry, but that’s a lame excuse for racists. Ignorance is no longer an acceptable excuse to hate people and dehumanize them based on race. We all have TV, we live in a globalized, science advanced world so we know black people are part of the human race, there’s a continent full of them so the 1800s excuse of ignorance is no longer acceptable. I understand that Italians are more driven by xenophobia which is hate of foreigners than actual hate of black skin for most people compared to America, but they express it through racism so must be acknowledged as such.
@@Lilyrose23 exactly. Plus black people have always been in Italy. There has been African presence in Europe since the middle ages so black didn't just show up in any European country only a few years ago.
I excuse if It looked like a racist comment but It was not my purpose. Italy is a place of culture but also a place of ignorance as well. I'm not telling that "all the Italians are racist" or "all the Italians are ignorant" but in fact this problem exists. In big cities the situation is different compared with the small cities' one and Italy Is not only made by Rome and Milan. Foreigners have been since a long time in Italy, of course, but It Is not true in small towns in 'provincia'. For example my father told me that he had first seen a black man when he was twenty, it's a fact. Not all the things that hurt other people are made because of malvagity, the world isn't black or white but there Is a huge spectrum of shades of Gray. Hate should never be accepted but I think that there is no way to solve a problem whithout understanding the reasons why it exists
Green Parrot I have to fully agree with you. In Bergamo, where I live, the first black people arrived around the 1990s and before that very few people in the city had even seen a black person. Now instead there’s a big mix of cultures and ethnicities and I’ve lots of friends with bergamasco origins and with foreign origins and I don’t rally see racism. The only problem imo is that because of the lack of jobs new arrived immigrants tend to sell things on the street and particularly in the center of Bergamo they tend to be aggressive and some people, particularly the elderly, tend to believe that all of them are like that even tho it isn’t
Green Parrot I agree with you, Italy wants to keep their Italy Italian and that’s ok. A lot of non Italian Citizens don’t realize how much taxes Italians have to pay when the illegals are there selling things and making money . So it’s not just about color but it’s about being able to live in their own country without struggling !
Totally agree with you on your parents not recognizing what racism is. My parents are Nigerian but I was raised in the US. My dad literally is a trump supporter and thinks racism is normal. I literally had to tell him that people feel unsafe and scared in their own country and he should stop sharing his political beliefs with him.
In Italia piu` che razzismo il problema e la xenofobia, non penso che la stragrande maggioranza della popolazione ritenga inferiore o provi repulsione per una determinata etnia, quanto invece il fatto che vi sia una combinazione fra crisi economica, immigrazione clandestina e diminuzione dell'istruzione pubblica; tutti e tre questi fattori, uniti ad una pessima politica dove la sinistra ha sempre utilizzato il tema migranti a scopo elettorale come la destra con Salvini che sfrutta tale situazione incrementando tale odio. Il razzismo anzi, a mio modo di vedere e molto piu` presente in altre zone del mondo specie dove vi e` un nazionalismo esasperato, e` onnipresente in tutti i continenti poiche` vi e` sempre una tendenza nel difendere la propria identità, son concorde sul fatto che vi sia una correlazione fra stato economico/sociale e discriminazione.
No bro, io direi che sti due cancri sono messi insieme sia razzismo che xenofobia, vedo i mie compagni di classe che mando stickers e robbe razziste/xenofobiche, sei fortunato che tu non le abbia viste perché ti metteresti in ridicolo per la situazione del nostro paese.
finalmente un commento serio. basterebbero regole fatte bene per gestire l'immigrazione clandestina ( e la garanzie di pene ed espulsioni ) e non ci sarebbe più da discutere di razzismo
I agree with everything you said, you put it perfectly! another thing Italians hate is being called racist 😂😂😂I remember the feedback I got on my video about racism and how no one actually listened to what I said, they were just angry that I called Italians racist. vabbè. I hope by the time you have kids this country will be somewhat better. and even if it’s not, I know you’ll instill great values in them
@@adaezeschannel Cause it's true we are not racist, we are against the immigration ... Especially the migrants who live here illegally. It's funny that you're always ready to call Italians racist, but here nobody got killed by the Police 🤷
My cardiologist is african and he graduated from university here in my city. This is the first time I meet a foreign doctor in my italian hospital and I m so glad about it (i work as a translator and I love to meet people from other countries) I have so much respect for my cardiologist.
12:10 so true , I had to wait 18 years to get the italian citizenship despite being born in Italy even if I have it I don't fell like I belong to Italy at all, I've never really felt to be treated like an italian and at this point I don't even care, I don't care about italians anymore.
America is a race based society. It's an extremely racist country. European countries are not based on race but more on classism and consequently nationality. Which leads to discrimination in the end. Which is the pure definition of racism. 09:06 that's the basis of racism. 10:59 That's the case for 99% of black Europeans. 12:12 That's common in many countries. And the reason being is because you are a minor. And sometimes your nationality of origin and the Italian one are not compatible. So you can't have double citizenship, so that means that as a child you are under your parents rights and legal status. And you will have to wait to be an adult to choose which citizenship you want to adopt. 15:10 Or probably not. Most likely they will be surrounded by (your people) people who accepts them because of who they are, not because of a nationality. And they will live their lives with other Italians who accepts them as equal, and they would disregard the rest. 15:27 In Switzerland is like that as well. Even 3rd generations Italians here call themselves Italians. 15:59 If they were completely disregarded, that black model wouldn't have been the cover of Vogue.
responding to your last comment, the black ITALIAN (this is the important part because black westerners are on magazine covers all the time) girl on the cover of vogue ITALIA was a huge deal and a huge accomplishment thanks to years of second generation Italians fighting for recognition. I actually hear italians say all the time that black italians do. not. exist. That cover wasn’t just “given” “because” it was accomplished and there’s a difference.
@@misstiataylor_ Answering to your comment: this is the important part because black westerners are on magazine covers all the time. Well this is not true. You have to see from which countries. Italy didn't have colonies, so this affects how they see black people from poor countries. And how a black face can be portrayed as Italian Beauty, without having to be accomplished. In Spain, or any Scandinavian country it would have been exactly the same. The only exception I can think about is Germany because of their horrible story, that by no means they want to be repeated in any sense. Countries such as France or the UK, which are quite into fashion, have had colonies and the generations of black immigrations dates way back. And they have gone through some of the issues Italy is facing today. So that's the reason you may see more blacks on covers.
Agree on your point 12:12. This is one of the many agreements between EU countries. Fellow EU citizens are granted greater rights than those who are from non-EU countries. If your parents are from Oz, Nigeria, US etc, you don't benefit from this. Its literally about geography. My cousins were born in Switzerland (non-EU but might as well be) but that didn't grant them Swiss citizenship. American father and British mother meant they started with British citizenship and had to apply for Swiss. In fact one of them didn't get it, for one reason or another, which has caused him a few problems to say the least. However, there is no expectation of a "right". The rules of the country are "ABC", and so you must jump through the relevant hoops if you want "XYZ". Its just the way it is and people know that, and may in fact consider it fair. Some countries are just stricter than others, unfortunately.
@@nadine7327 Italy had colonies in Africa. Ethiopia, Eritrea and Libya are all ex-italian colonies. About the black models not being on the cover of magazines in Italy is a complete lie. Different models of colour have been on the face of vogue magazines in italy during Franca Sozzani legacy. Besides black models have been on the cover of Vogue Japan, Arabia, Australia. Models that pose for cover magazines don't necessarily need to come from the country of the magazine.
As a Muslim whenever I say we face this issue some black ppl think I’m trying to compete with them or say hey pay attention to us more and that’s not the case so thank you saying that , even though there’s so many light skin ones it’s head wrap that’s the issue
I agree with you 100% and particularly with what you said in the latter half of the video. I am a 3rd GENERATION Italian-American, yet I often get treated more like an Italian than Italian-born people of color. I could cite multiple examples of this. I’ve had many conversations with my Italian counterparts about this and it’s either met with substantial resistance or “well, racism in America is different than in Italy”. And they’re right, it is. But like you said, things are changing and quickly. These challenges are something I’m hoping Italians can meet with the same grace they often do other social circumstances
Hi Tia, thank you. It takes an external, neutral but knowledgeable and experienced eye like yours to analyse this. I grew up in Italy, but I would have not been able to put it quite like this. I live in the UK and Brexit proved me I live in a bubble. My bubble is made of social status. I have a good job, cultured people around me, probably some degree of self imposed blindness of what is out there but is too hard to face. And never would I ever have imagined that the average Brit wants us all out... I have kids and what you say about black Italians touched a cord. They have dual nationality, with both parents being Italian. I cannot imagine how hard must feel to be denied your national identity, it feels much similar to the LGBT+ struggles.
Very good video. We Italians have a complicated relation with racism. Often we are tempted to say it does not exist. It all comes from the very deep belief that we are "brava gente", maybe poor, a bit loud and excessive but good in the end. That's really nice and comforting thought but also a dangerous one: for example we are not very aware in the mainstream culture about the crimes our ancestors made in Africa with the colonies, and even the crimes of the fascists are denied or ignored by a worring number of 'normal italian people' meaning non only the crazy rightwing guys. The comments on the Italian Blacks are tragically correct. There are infinite examples, we as a society are like mentally stuck in the Nineties on this issue. Back then I was a kid, and the vast majority of the immigrant families from Africa were here since less than 5-10 years. They were 'il bambino ghanese' or simply 'africano'. But Now 30 years later for too many people they are still african. Not italian. Probably the most famous example is Mario Balotelli. Born in Italy, raised in my city of Brescia, he has a stronger 'accento bresciano' than me. He became a successful football player, even successful in the National Football Team, but to a lot of people he's sadly not italian.
Why don’t you tell the world about the racist choirs against Ballottelli during football matches that forced him to leave the game several times? It says everything. Anyway I like your explanation as to why Italians deny being racist. What matters is: they are, and Italy is different from other European countries and much less inclusive and broad minded. It was on the low end of the TOLERANCE (also toward gays) list among countries in the west. Anyone who denies Italy is more racist and more narrow minded and ignorant and backwards than other European countries, is backwards and ignorant.
In france and the uk, black people are everywhere, a common part of society. Not in Italy. It’s the lack of mobility and simply less immigration. Only poor Africans migrate to italy. Italians migrate to Germany, Germans don’t migrate to italy…it is simply a less welcoming country and more backwards and narrow minded as a result. Are there black university and high school teachers in Italy? Never seen one. If there are are extremely rare and will get the Ballottelli treatment. But again, before racism there is simply being obtuse. If you’re obtuse, of course you’re also racist. Racism isn’t the core problem. Stubbornness is. Italians are very very stubborn.
Italy is xenophobic. Fact full stop. Germany isn’t. A few nazi idiots don’t make the whole Germany xenophobic. The average Italian is xenophobic and everything else is a lie of the xenophobic.
I think I have to literally think about this video for three days before I actually comment. You’re brilliant, reason why I watch you since you came to Italy.
ITALY = MONEY ... so It doesnt matter what color Religion blablabla you are ..as soon you "look" rich Actually is not even Important to Spend Money just you have to look like someone who can
Thanks for this video . I’m Nigerian and I’m looking forward to studying in Italy. I’m a little bit scared because of the cultural differences and the term ‘racism’. I’m trying to learn Italian online so that It’ll be easier for me. I want to know if it’ll be better to go for a course in English or go for a course in Italian. The particular course that I want is taught in Italian. I don’t know how that is going to play out and It makes me very skeptical about it. I would really love to talk to you. Is there a way I can contact you ?
This was a really interesting and informative video. Thank you for taking the time to create and upload it. 🙏🏽 It was very helpful with understanding life in Italy as a Black person. It’s a lot to think about.
It is a really interesting, nuanced video and I certainly subscribe to your thesis that there is a lot of xenophobia/racism in Italy. And not from now: I lived in London, in the 80s, and I was shocked to hear some racist comments made by some Italian acquantainces about a Nigerian friend of mine only on the basis of his race. Obviously it is impossible to be racist ... when there are no black people around and in the 80s the only black people I had ever seen in Milan were some Eritreans... and I had never heard any comments about them, probably because I was living in my middle class, progressive bubble. But as soon as I got out of it I was exposed to some crass racism, which totally took me by surprise. The funny thing was that I then moved to a different European State where I was exposed to some micro (and one macro) aggressions for being .... Italian.
Exactly, what Salvini and other fellow Italians don't understand is that we are considered "trash" in the rest of Europe, tutto il modo è paese after all.
Thank you for making this video. I'm going on almost 2 years in Italy and I'm in the "western black" category. I've done it all - lived in my bubble, learned the language, integrated, etc. I've experienced racism in each category. It was tough. Yes, racism is everywhere. But this video isn't about "every country" - it's about Italy. I now tend to slip back into the bubble sometimes or just spend my time inside studying.
Italians can be mean to each other strictly for being from a different town or region. What makes you think a foreigner aint getting some of that heat? If you basically arn't Italian or not from some sort of sister Mediterranean culture you gonna get treated like a square. This girl probably lives more privileged a life than most ethnic Italians south of Tuscany.
@@YoungOddo Italy is a bad country anyways why do u think all foreigners are moving out of it cos the country has no prospects only spaghetti and pizza
That sounds so accurate... It breaks my heart to see that people still don't respect each other. What's more, and what's worse, is that the people who should give an example to the citizens are the first ones to behave ignorantly. About the "being poor" topic, could it be that the church imprints such an image in kids that go to church-held schools (hopefully not willingly)? Really enjoy the videos, you got a new subscriber! Cheers from Italy :)
Hai proprio centrato il punto. Sono nera con due genitori di due paesi africani completamente diversi ma sono nata e cresciuta in Italia. Ho vissuto per 18 anni in una bolla costruita dai miei genitori che mi hanno fatto frequentare le scuole migliore e gli ambienti migliori e non ho mai concretamente affrontato il razzismo, eppure lo sentivo, sentivo come la gente parlava di quelli che erano neri come me. Poi il fatto della cittadinanza è sempre stato un problema; avendo genitori di nazionalità diverse non sapevo come identificarmi: non era italiana perché gli italiani non potevano essere neri, così si dice. Poi la cultura dei miei genitori l’avevo solo conosciuta e mai assimilata del tutto. Ora vivo e studio in Olanda perché preferisco essere considerata straniera in un altro paese piuttosto che esserlo a casa mia. L’Italia non mi manca, mi manca la famiglia, gli amici e tantissimo la mia città, che per me rimane la città migliore del mondo. Ogni tanto penso a quando e se tornerò, ma ho paura, perché quella bolla in cui sono cresciuta potrebbe non esistere più.
ma questo è un problema comune nel mondo da parte di tutti i figli di immigrati. Capita purtroppo che ci sia difficoltà nel sentirsi parte di una cultura. sicuramente ci sono degli ostacoli esterni, come anche ci sono ostacoli "interni" legati alla sensibilità personale. razzismo vuole dire discriminazione e odio per il colore della pelle, ma questo sentimento che esprimi tu, lo provavano anche gli italiani che emigravano in belgio o in sudamerica. l'hanno provato i figli dei miei prozii emigrati in belgio dopo la seconda guerra mondiale. non buttiamo tutto nel calderone del razzismo per favore. non sto negando che esista, ma non facciamo l'errore di interpretare ogni disagio come razzismo, altrimenti si finisce come la favola di pierino e il lupo: la cosa perde importanza agli occhi delle persone. viene da farlo anche a me: ogni cosa che non va bene è perchè siete razzisti, non sanno dire altro? non sanno argomentare i problemi? tante volte non riesco a prendere sul serio le accuse di razzismo. vuoi che ti faccia un esempio? ho venduto un mobile a un ragazzo di colore e l'ho aiutato a portarlo in casa sua. mi ha mostrato la casa e mi ha spiegato che aveva problemi con la caldaia difettosa. mi ha detto che il padrone di casa non voleva cambiargliela, probabilmente, ha aggiunto, per il colore della pelle. mi è venuto da ridere: ero in affitto pure io in quel periodo e avevo lo stesso problema. la caldaia difettosa non me la cambiavano. era per il colore della pelle? ovviamente i padroni di casa (mio e suo, differenti padroni di casa ovviamente) non volevano accollarsi il costo, a casa mia come a casa di questo ragazzo! perchè ogni problema deve essere visto come un qualcosa legato al razzismo? è ovvio che quando poi il razzismo c'è davvero uno minimizza perchè si perde la capacità di distinguere quando è razzismo vero e quando è solo una cosa buttata lì per dare il nome a qualsiasi disagio.
@@alessiosicuro2114 ho capito amico mio pero essere razzisti contro l altri e un gran no no per me . magari la cultura italiano un pochino chiusa pero la discriminazione contro altre persone non va bene amico mio
Great video, but you're wrong about Americans being given opportunities in Italian universities and Africans not, I got admitted to universities in Pisa, Rome and Milan based on merit and even in interviews, I could tell they were more impressed by my grades and didn't question that my previous university was African.
Oh Tia mi spiace tantissimo, non hai idea di quanto le tue parole mi spezzino il cuore. L'Italia è il mio paese, ma quello che dici purtroppo è vero, spero che sia solo una piccola parentesi. ❤.
I really hate the world "expat". it is just a way to differentiate rich (usually white) people living abroad. the right word is "immigrant". when you arrive in the airport there is only the immigrant gate, not the immigrant and the expat gates. (and I say that as an Italian immigrant)
obviously. But in the context of this video which talks about how italians in Italy treat you based on your perceived wealth it makes perfect sense, hence why I used it.
Just a comment about Italian politics (which btw is far detached from the most part of actual society) many of the voters of the far right/right party (because there's no actual moderate right/liberal party or representation in Italy) are probably just dissatisfied with how the left wing dominant party is handling the country; feeling a lack of care and sovereignty, which leaves you (as an Italian citizen) think that the political system doesn't care for its country wealth and economic advancement. Unfortunately or maybe fortunately xD Italy has abandoned the liberal right movement started with Berlusconi, which was super bigot, corrupted and the more you investigate the worse it gets.... but fundamentally it could've led to a new Italian economic renaissance and identity a bit like a budget US. Instead the country was unable to innovate and led first to the rise of a left wing movement which first seemed to kill the leftovers of mid class after the 2008 economic crisis, and then prompted the pooer and lesser cultured Italian society to vote for parties that are pushing medieval propaganda. And as i kinda referenced it before with the "Berlusconi era", it all goes back to the Italian society being unable to evolve and create an healthy society, the procrastination always ends up to bite sooner or later, and this is why Italy is a slowly dying country that can't repair to, or maybe won't face, the mistakes done in the past, to create a new better self that can keep up with the rest of the world. Also i totally agree with you that Italian society is way underdeveloped in terms of integration and the super politically correct press,politicians and media (music, actors and other famous people in Italy) just goes to show how underdeveloped and late the integration in Italy is compared to basically any other western European country... we have black and white no space in between and as you can imagine neither of them is gonna do good in the long run.
So true... I am Living in Italy since I am 13 yo. I studied here in high school and I finished my college here. I have never seen a black, slavic or whatever lawer or teacher in public school. I have seen foreign doctors and nurses in public hospitals thou. Same in public offices, you'll hardly come across a black or chinese employee in ''comune''. This shows how different these groups are treated.
I am glad you've resealed this video. When I watched your first video, I felt disappointed actually, because you were (unconsciously) portraying a very small reality of Italy. Belonging to the "half Italian" group, I am glad you've come to realise the reality that myself and so many of the people close to me have experienced in their lives. Having lived abroad now for 5 years, I always feel it again every time I got back home to my small hometown in Italy and also from other Italians in the country where I currently live. I know so many half/black Italians who have moved abroad. Italy is missing out on a lot of things, from an economic and cultural point of view. I am saddened to hear that you don't feel comfortable anymore about having a family in Italy, I hope things get better and wish you all the happiness in your future
This is so so interesting to me. I am not black, I'm a white Australian, so I can honestly say this is not something I can claim to know much about, but I have studied anthropology for a lot of years and it's really strange to see a society where a "western" black person is treated relatively normally but an "eastern" black person is treated with racial prejudice. In a way, it's like society in Italy begun to change its views on race, but only did it halfheartedly by accepting the most visible. I think what you said about being a "western" black in Italy and using your privilege to help others is a really important thing.
I think you should consider the role of immigration. The reason why black people from poor countries are treated with "racial prejudice" is because "a lot" (or at least, that's what Italians perceive) of black unskilled people from poor countries are recently coming to Italy
@@alessandrom7181 Australian government has a huge issue with accepting immigrants, unfortunately many of us have been protesting the unfair treatment of immigrants and asylum seekers for many years. I am not trying to 'school' anyone, if you thought this then you read my comment wrong.
Before I even start the video, I'm gonna share my thoughts as an Italian. I think Racisms in Italy cannot be compared with Racism in the US. We didn't have slavery, we didn't have segregation. Racism in the US is based purely on Race, on the difference in "white people" and "black people". Those are two different groups that tend to stay separated. Racism is a lot more criminalizes in the US, but also a lot more frequent. There is a much higher percentage of black people, and black people are NOT immigrants. They are US citizens just as much as any other white people. Thus, racism is purely based on race, not on nationality. In the opposite, until very recent years Italy hasn't even seen any big group of black people living here. It has never been a thing. In Italy, usually, only Italians would live (I'm talking about around till 20 years ago or so). With that, Italians never even had the possibility to be racists, or at least not to a schematic way such as Americans. If a black tourist would have come to Italy, I don't think he would have encountered any racism whatsoever, as Italy was not a racist country per se. With that said, in recent years with the increasing immigration and nationalistic politics such as Salvini, many many Italians became racist towards the "different". Meaning, towards, people from different countries. Among these countries, also some of them with black skin citizens. From that, Italians became increasingly racist against those. Also because it's easier to recognize only by looking at an African immigrant than a Romanian one. To conclude, Italy's racism is based on immigration and people being "foreigners" and "not Italians", not much based on skin color per se. In the US, racism is not based on citizenship, black people are 100% Americans, racisms is based on race.
You should’ve started the video because you’re kind of just repeating old, moot points. So how would you describe the animosity towards black Italians.... they’re born and raised here, thankfully many have struggled and attained citizenship and yet..... they aren’t seen as such? You’re telling me that is because of what exactly? The video isn’t comparing racism in Italy to America, it’s talking about racism in Italy and there is plenty, don’t be fooled just because it doesn’t manifest its way the same here as in another country and until you guys acknowledge that you’ll always be held back. When the psycho was chasing me in the in the metro, physically threatening me and telling me to go back to my country, simply because I’m black, it felt a lot like racism to me but tell me more about how I’m imagining it and Italians aren’t really racist. As I say in the video, you waste time trying to understand whether or not italians are racist (or xenophobic, does it actually matter the name???) instead of actually fixing the issue and the situation is obviously deteriorating.
@@misstiataylor_ I didn't mean to diminish Racism in Italy or the experience of black people in Italy. I am myself an immigrant in another country and I have experience racisms as being Italian. I agree 100% that Racism is a big issue in the world, and just as much in Italy as a nation. I never said racism doesn't exist in Italy, and I don't think it, I was analyzing how the two kinds of racism are different. I was just considering the causes of Racism and comparing the two instances. With no doubts though that is simply a cause and now the phenomenon is much more structured.
Il razzismo esiste in Italia. Quanti neri vedi a parità o "superiore " merito occupano posti importanti? Salvini non è stato votato da dio nessuno. In America l'ambiente è altro
@@misstiataylor_ All the second generations have the same problem in Italy, not only black Italians. Italians still feel blood is more important than culture (which I strongly desagree with). Still, because the second generations are now starting to be old enough, I really hope that things will change in the next decade...if we survive to this hugly extreme right/neofascist rise.
Very good video! I'd like to see it in Italian (or with Italian subtitles) for Italians who still don't speak English well, because more people should be aware of that situation. p.s.: nice new look, Tia!
Thank you so much for this video. I've been subscribed to your channel for a while and I'm so inspired to try moving abroad again. A lot of what you said was true for me too, except I was living in France in my early 20s. I lived in Paris though so it was kind of different but when I went to the country or smaller cities in France people would give funny looks until they realized that I'm American. My Afro French and Muslim French friends had very different experiences but the racism was still present.
Da italiano che ha lavorato come dipendente agricolo nei paesi scandinavi posso dire che alcune cose che dici le ho provate sulla mia pelle.. forse non é neppure una questione di colore, ma di distanza da casa. Ecco perché se un nero italiano parla con l'accento dialetto napoletano, romano ecc ecc non ci poniamo neppure il problema di capire chi é e da dove viene .
I completely agree with everything you said, some Italian are so ignorant about Africa period. Once I heard a girl who didn't know that Egypt was in Africa 🤦. They have their vision of how Africa is (poor) they don't realise that it's a huge continent. I'm from Tanzania and I still keep in touch with some parents, it happens that when I talk about them being educated and working in offices, They don't belive me.
Excellent and thoughtful analysis. Sounds like Spain except a very light skinned half black/half Spanish person born & raised here would probably be a bit more accepted here than in Italy. But generally here in Spain, the microaggressions, racism in the workplace, incorrect assumptions also take place here.
As a Moroccan and muslim girl who was born and grew up in Italy, I can say racism is a BIG deal. Living there I've experienced racism several times and I'm not even dark skinned (but you can tell I'm Moroccan..), I used to hate it and wish I could look more European and just...be European instead (even though I was born there I was NEVER considered Italian...NEVER.) Now I really dont give a fuck anymore, I am who I am and I wouldn't wanna be anybody else. I moved to france 2 years ago and things are totally difference here. Racism exists still but..again racism exists everywhere but it really is different...
@Ethan puoi parlare in italiano quindi lol e buona fortuna, spero ti piacerà qui e che ti troverai bene. Nella mia zona ci sono molte persone di origine italiana se può aiutarti lol
As a white italian I think the biggest problem is the strong traditionalism and small-mindedness of most of my fellow countrymen, who are not exposed to many new things and so are scared of them. I think they see non-white italians as they see carbonara con panna, an existential attack on their little old world. Take note that even white strangers are mostly seen as "barbaric" in some way, just because they don't follow the Most Holy Italian Way of Life (sarcasm).
I've been living in Italy all my life, but both my parents migrated from Ghana... I am an Italian of African descent , but some people believe that '' NON CI SONO NERI ITALIANI'' using the N-WORD. Historically speaking Italy has always been a melting pot of cultures since the ancient Roman Empire. Black people from Africa ( the Blackamoors) lived in Sardinia, Naples, Sicily and other cities...they are portrayed on some local flag or ornaments.They make money out of them even if they never pay them tribute (Black people contributed to the History of the World but its rarely mentioned by anyone.) What about the current Afro-Italians then ? Imagine the situation 500 or 1000 years from now... but anyways Thanks for your insight, totally agree
@@lacasadipavlov Ritraiamo i loro volti su bandiere o vari soprammobili/souvenirs il che è totalmente lecito (poiché fanno parte della storia italiana) Ma stranamente non della STORIA ITALIANA CHE CI VIENE INSEGNATA a scuola O CHE I MEDIA RACCONTANO. Quindi mi chiedo, perché questi individui non vengono mai menzionati ad esempio, in ambito scolastico? E...Se per qualche strano motivo lo facciamo (chiaramente non in ambito scolastico) si tratta di leggende , o storie poco lineari a mio avviso. Il che è prevedibile perché "la storia viene dettata dai Vincitori, non dai vinti '' , ma grazie ad internet è sempre più semplice accedere a qualsiasi informazione.
@@lapaceinteriore9148 quello che scrivi è molto interessante, ma potresti essere più preciso? Quali sono queste persone che non sono menzionate dalla storia ufficiale? Quali gesta hanno compiuto? Poi mi potresti spiegare che intendi per soldi e tributi? Ti ringrazio, ciao
@@lacasadipavlov E' evidente che faccio ancora fatica ad esprimermi sia in Inglese sia in Italiano quindi mi scuso.Anche se il tema principale del video non erano i Mori, mi sono presa la libertà di condividere una considerazione personale. A questo punto mi permetto di rigirare a te la domanda : "Chi sono i MORI raffigurati sulla bandiera sarda (ad esempio)" Ed I mori raffigurati sui souvenirs che i turisti acquistano (ad esempio a Sorrento ) Sicilia e in altre parti del sud Italia? Chiedo a te, visto che sei sicuramente più italiano di me. Puoi spiegarmi perché la loro immagine viene raffigurata e commercializzata, ma la loro storia non viene raccontata? Puoi gentilmente darmi una mano con delle fonti storiche? Tks
@@lapaceinteriore9148 Non c'è nessun bisogno di scusarti, no problem! Cominciamo col dire che i Mori a cui fai riferimento tu erano in massima parte Arabi e Berberi, quasi mai quindi persone provenienti dall'Africa Sub-sahariana. Riguardo i famosi quattro mori della bandiera sarda essi non riguardano la storia italiana, bensì quella spagnola! Il Re di Aragona Pietro I, infatti, nel 1096 aveva sconfitto gli Arabi nella battaglia di Alcoraz, che si concluse con l'uccisione di 4 comandanti dell'esercito arabo. Per ricordare questa impresa gli Aragonesi inserirono il simbolo delle 4 teste nel loro stemma. Poichè, poco dopo, gli Aragonesi conquistarono la Sardegna questo simbolo venne applicato anche ai territori dell'isola che, col tempo, lo adottò come suo vessillo ufficiale. I mori siciliani invece risalgono ad una leggenda di circa 1000 anni fa che narra di un amore finito male tra una bellissima ragazza palermitana ed un giovane nobile arabo, ti invito a cercare qualcosa su internet (è una storia tragica però!) Infine su Sorrento non so dirti niente, ma se trovo qualcosa te lo faccio sapere. PS ti invito ad abbandonare questo approccio quasi "complottistico" alla storia, non è proprio il caso PPS non credo di essere più italiano di te, siamo tutti e due ugualmente italiani, semplicemente con una storia personale differente! ;)
Have you ever had a question but didn't know who to ask it in order to get an answer that satisfied you fully? This video was it❤ Thank you so much, if only you knew what a tremendous help this was for me❤❤
Hi Tia, thank you very much for your point of view :)! Great video! Despite my channel name I'm from Turin, and you are right....I think the problem of Italy is also the language, a very few people are able to understand and read and listen at "foreing" languages that are not Italian I am also speaking about English unfortunately... And that's BAD because they're not able to open up to the rest of the world to different cultures and to the innovations that comes from those. It's like beeing in a small room all day, the air stinks after a while, italy is that small room :(.... I hope this will change someday, and everyone could understand... but for now is a big problem, also for racism... :(
The reason why children of a non-EU couple have to wait 18 years is because they have to reach the adult age to choose their citizenship...children of a couple with the italian citizenship are italians to all effects... it is the same almost in any EU nation
Absolutely not true, they have to wait because we have backwards laws that dates back to when migration towards Italy was almost inexistent. Now, nobody cares to change it because they play on the skins of human beings for an handful of votes
Where did you visit in Italy and how was your experience in overall? Would you visit again? I'll be traveling there at the end of Sept to eary October (as an African-American woman) visiting Venice, Florence, Rome and the Amalfi Coast (Positano).
@@priscillastephens3978 Hey! I went to Naples, Ischia, & Rome. I had a beautiful time. You’re going to love it. I didn’t feel any racism but like she said in the video I’m African American and I was there during a port visit by a huge Navy ship so I’m sure everyone was on their best behavior. If you’re interested I did a Italy Vlog on my channel and included everything I did.
Yeah, this video is very brief but complete as well. I think you get confused on the part of the legislation difference between an EU child (even a black one) and a non EU child. 12:12 First there is an error, you missinterpreted the law. The law says that the child of non EU parents can get the italian citizenship not after 18 years but at the 18th birthday if they lived at least 10 years in Italy. The law blocks only kids that do not have at least one italian parent, if you have at least one (even a foreigner parent that gets the italian citizenship later) the child gets automatically the italian citizenship too by the law of blood (ius sanguinis), so if tomorrow you have a child with your italian boyfriend (facciamo le corna) the kid will have the italian citizenship. Second the main "opposition" is that the legal distinction between a non EU kid and an EU kid exists pretty much only on paper, they have access almost to all the same rights, i'm talking about school system, any subsidies, public health system, and so on. There are only few rights that i know a "non EU child" do lack, one is the freedom of traveling in the non EU (like school trips abroad) and the problem of having to navigate in the rusted italian burocracy to have their citizenship recognized (it will take a lot of time and the brocracy could fuck up the request since they do everything on pen and paper and letters). But i state again that i do agree with all the rest of the video, it's just that little legislation small bit that imho was at least debatable and i know it wasn't a pivotal argument of the video.
I left out the words 'born in italy' by accident but I was specifically talking about those cases because they do prove my point. I don't believe a child should have to renew their permesso di soggiorno (a traumatising incubo) every year and I don't believe the parent should have to give up their citizenship for their child to have the citizenship of a place they grew up their whole life. The legal distinction does not exist only on paper because Italy is bureaucratic nightmare and your life is 100x harder if you don't have EU citizenship-- I say this as a person who doesn't have EU citizenship but still has a very powerful passport, immigration has been a total shit show for me and it boggles my mind that there people have it worse and children have to go through the same bullshit every year... No matter how you spin it, or clarify it, the law is archaic and incompatible with a multi ethic society and the fact that it exists and is applied the way it is DOES say a lot about how italian society views the children of immigrants.
Yes, Italy is a bureaucratic nightmare, but I hope it will get better and join the rest of the world with new technologies, but this has nothing to do with racism in my opinion. Also, to my knowledge, children don't have to renew their permesso di soggiorno, but one of their parents has to (and this is perfectly normal, in my opinion). Also, we agree that it would be unfair for a person to lose its "first" cityzenship, but Italy allows double cityzenship, so that depends on laws from other countries that Italy cannot control. Once again, I agree with everything else you said, but I think that point is debatable and more complex than that (obviously, you are not supposed to analyze each thing you say in every video you make 😆)
The children have to be present when the parents renew the permesso so what is the difference? This year when I was renewing mine, what looked liked a new born baby, was waiting for hours with us in the smelly, dirty immigration room of the questura because her parents had to get a temporary permesso for her and it was quite disturbing to me. Even if they don’t lose their citizenship it’s not fair or logical. The parent shouldn’t be forced to apply for Italian citizenship because maybe idk, their not Italian, don’t consider themselves Italian and don’t want to go through the hassle of citizenship. I for example have no desire to apply for Italian citizenship. The process is long and expensive and as the Italian passport doesn’t give me anything new in terms of travel rights... makes no sense to do. I lose my mind every year for the permesso, the citizenship process is 10x harder and seems like a total presa in giro. If for some reason I have a kid in Italy with another non-Eu person and we never leave Italy it makes no sense to me why my (at least culturally) Italian child would have to apply for citizenship after 18 years. Thank god they’d have American citizenship anyways but just the idea and principal makes 0 sense to me. The child is culturally Italian and they’re the only one suffering in this scenerio, there’s no way around it. The existence of the law in this way might not be racist but the fact that Italians didn’t change the law when they had a chance and some racist arguments were also used to justify this says a lot about Italian society and that was my point.
I respect your opinion, but I disagree for many other reasons that I don't want to state, I already commented too much for my standards 😆 I prefer to discuss face to face, have a good day 😊
Hello Tia, Thank you for posting such a balanced, well presented video on such an important topic. I know that it is now three years since you posted it...but I have only just seen it because I have just started to investigate the subject of racism in Italy. Almost all of what you say is transferable to other so-called developed Western countries and is still relevant today, and with the chance that some issues have worsened. I am an older person, retired, who was born in the caribbean but have lived in "developed" Western countries. I have lived as a member of the different "groups" you mentioned throughout my working life and experienced the gamut of racist treatment you outlined, which is why I acknowledge how well thought out and balanced your presentation is. I am that person fortunate enough to be able to "choose" how and when to step out of my insulating bubble, if I should so choose. I am retired, so no work situation to deal with. I have sufficient finances to live in an area that I choose...within some reason...to use public transport when I choose to, etc. I now live in Canada, via the UK, but have my eye on moving back to Europe. This is early in my research but your take on racism in Italy has been very informative and helpfull towards my journey. Your video was very engaging to watch! Thank you.
I am an African from Uganda and I have been living in Italy for 8 years now. So what you said sounds about right. When I am hanging out with my Black American friends I get treated differently than when I am having out with my African friends. That being said, it's also so true about classicism. People will treat me much better when i am dressed up and in a place of high status regardless of me being black.
Now when it comes to how we approach the racism issue. Yes, it's true that Africans are slower to go to racism when things happen compared to Black Americans but that goes back a lot to history.
You look beautiful 😍
I am trying to reply to your comment but RUclips is deleting my comment
If you’re facing racism in a country you’re not from why not just go back to your original country
we did not invided other countries for colonialism as French Uk Belgium did, and also Spain Portugal and Netherlands. Not us. we are friendly people With everyone and no racist at all
siamo arrivati al paradosso... questi apprezzano veramente di più chi gli ha messo le catene alle caviglie e l'anello al naso che noi che li stiamo accogliendo anche perchè gli altri europei gli hanno colonizzati e sfruttati @@giacomojamesPunkRockHeadReact 😶😶
Not one bit of lie has been said. Racism in Italy is diiferent from America because a lot of times it's small remarks, microaggresions or just those cold stares in Esselunga..... Anyway love this video
We have to agree that serious episodes has started to increase in these recent years. Outside of the coronavirus' hysteria (which is a thing the other countries are experiencing with), racist slogans are written on monuments dedicated to historical episodes and black people are getting assaulted on the street.
Even if the papers are claiming that those are single cases, the number is growing slowly and if nothing serious is done on the cultural and social way there could be serious risks, moreso if the right manages to lead the government and took advantage of such sentiment in order to get the maximum support.
StarFang I 100% agree with that
not true, just as many micro aggressions in America and very overt racism in Italy like bananas being thrown
Racism ain't a big problem in America unless you're brainwashed by social media and the news
@@mr.devil9577 You’ve been brainwashed by Fox News, so...
I dated an Italian exchange student that came to my university for a semester, and it was honestly so surprising how conservative he was. My parents are from Ethiopia and what made me break up with him were his views about Ethiopian & Eritrean immigrants living in Italy. He didn’t like talking about politics, but he told me he voted for Matteo Salvini, so I knew that I had to end things.
Very wise choice
that is why you have to ask who they voted for at first date. A guy that voted for Salvini does not get a second.
Wow a young guy who voted salvini... I am sorry you bumped in such a person.
And he dated you?? The guy loves contradiction also.....
Fiorella Young who is he? Is he like the trump of Italy?
Vorrei spezzare una lancia a favore delle piccole città di provincia. Io faccio parte della famosa seconda generazione di immigrati (come veniamo chiamati nei talk show politici) o altresì noti come afroitaliani. Durante la prima parte della mia infanzia ho vissuto in una grande città del sud. Quando avevo 6 anni la mia famiglia si è trasferita in un paesino minuscolo del centro Italia, dove tutti si conoscevano e dove eravamo le uniche persone nere. Non sono mai stata trattata in maniera diversa dagli altri. Sono stata presa in giro? Sì, ma come tutti e solo dai bulletti che prendevano in giro tutti i diversi: dal bambino grassottello a quello con i capelli rossi. Crescendo sono diventata una del paese...tutti mi conoscevano e conoscevano i miei genitori. E quando ho preso la cittadinanza a 18 anni(cosa assurda se posso dire) ho avuto più problemi a reperire i documenti dalla grande città che dal mio piccolo paesino di provincia, dove l'amministrazione si è prodigata per me.
Non dico che è così ovunque anzi...ma io il razzismo l'ho vissuto sulla mia pelle molto di più nelle città più grandi dove i rapporti sono meno stretti. Per i miei compaesani sono sempre stata italiana. Si sono stupiti del fatto che dovessi attraversare un iter burocratico per essere vagamente considerata tale.
Grazie! Che bel post... un po' di speranza! Spero che tu resterai in Italia, non solo perché sei italiana, ma perché tu ci possa aiutare a costruire una società migliore, più curiosa ed aperta. Solo così potremo superare razzismo e xenofobia. Per altro conosco molti giovani con storie simili alla tua e tanta intelligenza e voglia di fare: credo che voi siate un'enorme risorsa per l'Italia. E molti giovani che conosco non fanno alcuna distinzione sulla provenienza dei genitori per distinguere tra italiani e non: ho molto più fiducia nella vostra generazione che nella mia!
@@mimmiblu6138 Non ho intenzione di espatriare...ho avuto la possibilità e non l'ho fatto. Primo perché sarebbe come darla vinta a quelli che urlano tornatene al tuo paese (spoiler...questo è il mio paese, nel bene e nel male. Se c'è chi non lo accetta è un problema suo e non certo mio). Secondo perché come dice Tia, io vivo nella mia bolla. Nel mio paesino sto bene, la gente mi rispetta ed è capitato che mi difendesse. Mi sentirei persa in una grande città estera. Come mi disse mia zia una volta "ovunque andrai sarai una giovane donna nera...non c'è nessun posto nemmeno l'africa dove è facile esserlo"
Terzo qualcuno dovrá pure provare a cambiarlo questo povero paese...
@@cassandravision sono contenta di questo: ho un figlio giovane e sono felice che ci siano persone come te e come i tuoi compaesani: neanche per un ragazzino bianco è bello crescere in un paese razzista ed ignorante che giudica la gente sulla base del colore della pella o della provenienza e non sulla base del comportamento del singolo individuo perché imparerà che è normale la discriminazione... oppure si vergognerá della mentalità media. È importante che le cose cambino, ed in fretta, per il bene di tutti gli Italiani, di qualsiasi colore siano.
Non ne avevo idea. Questo video e questi commenti sono mind-blowing per me. Grazie che ci fai vedere un altro aspetto della nostra società - di cui sapevo poco o niente.
Ma infatti è trasversale, credo abbia a che fare con la coscienza delle singole persone e le "tradizioni" di famiglia nonostante le condizioni sociali determinino diversi modi e intensità di espressione del razzismo. E poi c'è la questione dell'epoca, una volta le classi medie e alte erano di norma conservatrici e di vedute arcaiche, mentre in quelle basse c'era un fermento ideologico molto forte derivato dagli ideali del socialismo e dalla prassi soprattutto dei comunisti che hanno come un pilastro l'innalzamento culturale di suddette classi per renderle autocoscienti e dunque rivoluzionarie. Oggi si è (sempre parlando in termini ampi) capovolta la situazione. Molti circoli dell'alta società si definiscono progressisti (con una buona dose di ipocrisia e distacco dalla realtà attuale, però) mentre le classi medio-basse si sono spostate a destra e dunque a una chiusura verso l'esterno e il diverso molto più accentuata di una volta...Questo non impedisce che a seconda del territorio, anche piccoli paesi abitati da persone modeste non possano per vari fattori essere realmente inclusivi....Bisognerebbe individuare le dinamiche che determinano l'intolleranza in generale e cercare di fare qualcosa a riguardo per estirparla....
As a Black American living in Madrid, there are a lot of parallels between the situation in Spain and Italy.
Interesting, can you develop?
Spain is very racist too which saddens me as I have Spanish citizenship. When I think of the country I just get sad
Honestly, from a Spaniard who has left the country, get out of Spain. Spain is a shithole and it's very racist. People used to stare at my mom like crazy and even the spanish police tried to take us away from her for you know what. When you start looking up other european countries you end up realising you gotta move and that Spain is the worst european country ever to exist. Btw I'm 15
@@pabloreguilon6068 why this happened to you?
@Giorno When you are put into a similar situation, you'll be more understanding. Just wait, it will happen one day...
Hi Tia, your description of racism in Italy is absolutely accurate, as an Italian I couldn't have found better words. I just wanna highlight how much the italian kind of racism is not that much related to skin color or nationality. It's linked to classism most of all. Till not much time ago most north Italians were racist with southerners because they were much poorer and used to emigrate to the North. Then when I was a kid racism was against Romanians and Albanians because they were the "poor people coming from the east". I think racism against black people or Islamic people wasn't a thing cause there were very very few of them at that time. Now things have changed so much, there are more people with southern roots here in the North than "pure" northeners, Romanians and Albanians are much more integrated...so Italians' hatred and racism has only found new "victims" now.
Anyways I really hope that in the next years the situation will get better and the new generations will be more open minded than the old ones. Black Italians, Arab Italians, asiatic Italians DO EXIST and they will be part of our national identity more and more. People will eventually start accepting that, hopefully.
It will only change if it's acknowledged and dealt with. In America it has not changed....They choose to segregate themselves and sanitize the history......It's been going on for 400 years.....
L'ha detto :)
@@BlackRose0119 sisi infatti è stata molto brava, ci tenevo solo a evidenziarlo maggiormente :)
I'd like Italy to become actively multicultural and, you know... not preteding that black/arabic/asiatic italians basically don't exist.
Intanto complimenti per l'inglese, in secondo luogo io adesso non so in che regione del nord vivi, ma qui in Friuli, dove vivo, gli unici posti con cui puoi parlare con "gente decente" sono le città perché nei paesini (ergo il 90% della Regione) o sono tutti salviniani non moderati, oppure sono apertamente fascisti (e quindi tutto lo schifo legato a mussolini etc...) ✌️
"Italians feel threatened by change, in general". Amen!!!! Very very true. Historians have interesting theories onto why that is the case but regardless it is clear that it is something as a country we need to work on. Thank you for sharing your insights, i find your opinions always very well articulated and it's clear you took the time to understand what you've been observing and express your points with respect.
Leucci11 the italians do that because they have a very strong culture. And , understandebly, they are afraid of losing that. Which is normal
Is change always good?
@@MANthe93 but change is inevitable if change never happens we would never develop as a human race. At one point in history, all the continets were combined together a pangea it was called. Did the lands hurl abuse when the oceans parted them? It's hard not to be facetious but I generally dislike people's aversion to change, in this case the Greeks fell for the Romans to rise.
Bhe abbiamo inventato tante di quelle cose, dall'arte alla scienza, che se il cambiamento c'avesse fatto così paura, non avremmo mai potuto inventare (motore a scoppio, radio, note musicali, ecc)
Il discorso socio politico che fa è sbagliato, lei fa l'errore del classico "radical-chic" di sinistra, che guadagna bene, fa una vita agiata, e non nota che in Italia, la maggior parte della gente che vota, guadagna poco , vive in condizioni non di lusso, è sommersa da problemi, pensieri , burocrazia ecc, e vedersi arrivare centinaia di migliaia di profughi l'anno, quando lo stato non riesce nemmeno a dare un lavoro e dare da mangiare a tutti gli italiani, effettivamente fa uscire fuori la parte peggiore del Paese, ma in questo sbaglia la politica, soprattutto quella di sinistra, che è stata poco ponderata nel gestire l'immigrazione e ha dato modo alla Lega di diventare il primo partito italiano.
Not true. We love change we don't love to have become a minority that has no rights anymore. Illegal immigrants have more rights that citizens have and we are pretty tired of it. Yup!
Thank you for speaking on thr nuances of the black experience especially as relates to racism in Italy. As a Kenyan student studying here I also think how "well" you speak English matters and I guess that ties into everything you have said about being a Western black vs an African black and whether you're "poor" or not. I have gotten surprised looks when I say I am from "Africa Africa" (born and bred on the continent) yet I "speak English so well". Keep up the great content👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Silvia Mwendia omg that is so true my classmates didn’t believe am from Kenya because i s speak very good English
Huuh atleast am less worried now,am a kenyan coming there soon
@@makenatush7510 don't even get me started. Quite annoying
yes about africa its true, we think it probably poor, cause in Africa are poor, ma nothing of spec in general…
small clarification Italian people feel threatened by Italian beauty posters with a black cover, because they are aware that there is a "forcing" to change the country, against their will, it is not a phenomenon to favor the country is this is the point, politics in Italy is a disaster as I told you and some politicians have no interest in making the country grow.
It also happened with Miss Mondo, they won a short-haired black woman who spoke of sexism, it is not a coincidence ... they create characters and slogans to encourage people to change their point of view, they also pay actors to spread certain messages, lately you will have noticed too.
What about africans that speak fluent Italian, how are they perceived and treated?
I'm a mixed light-skinned third-culture kid who grew up in the US but is now living in Italy (as my dad is Italian and we decided to move back so that university would be more affordable) and you hit the nail on the head when it comes to the "dark" experience. I've experienced all three faces of Italian racism, from being the American celebrity to the Brazilian "less-than" to the non-existant Italian minority. I've definitely developed coping mechanisms, from calling my mom and just speaking in English when I'm being looked at funny to having a much more assertive and no-bs attitude with strangers, but microaggresions happen on the daily. I initially moved to a small city in provincial Liguria and have since moved to Rome, which is much, much better in the racism regard, but it's still present, it's just less black and white.
Romans are hard whatever color you are 🤣👌
Im British Italian Sicilian and Moroc and racism is quite common all over Italy. Ive been perhaps 15 ish times and with me and by having Italian blood i just understand Italian culture and the common notion there with dark skinned people is what you have mentioned above, but also the idea blacks and all the other migrants just dont appreciate true Italian culture and ive noticed that a lot.
@@suwaidpuccini6918 damn why they so racist just live in peace it’s way easier
What a bunch of bolloks. To me you all self convince yourselves and the see racism everywhere even if one ask you the time. LOL
Also if it was that hard to stay here you'd have already gone away. Duh.
It also depends how you look. I’m half italian and half African, but I look more Moroccan and the discrimination on that particular group is fierce. I see that when they mistake me for one. 😕
Unspoken Ascension I’ve seen Italian movies and they do have tensions with the Muslim / Arab community a lot. Spain as well.
Unspoken Ascension ....is Morocco not part of Africa?
Grey Price Oh my God don’t be petty.
Grey Price I was not referencing geography. I was referencing ethnicity. So don’t start being petty on stuff that’s unrelated. You just made yourself look ignorant. Have a good day.
soraya .e everyone really
Funny enough the term black italians was reserved to the southern italians landing in America before the WW2.
Exactly
This video makes me so sad. I'm from the south of Italy, and I think that the situation is even worse. My boyfriend is black, and he moved to France two years ago because of the depression. In Sicily there is no job and there isn't respect for black people. I hate the way sicilian people look at black people, it makes me feel angry and so ashamed.
If I could make a wish, I would like people to become intelligent enough to understand that there are no differences. I am so sorry that you have to live thinking about this kind of problems, it's a huge injustice...
creo que voy a vomitar
@SatinDoll There is no job in general. And even if you get a job, most of the time you will be paid less, your schedules won't be respected, you will work without an employment contract. This is true for Sicilians, but for black people is even worse. Employers don't trust them, and exploit them as if they were object without dignity. So, for black people is almost impossible to find a job in which you are respected as a human being and nobody makes "jokes" about your skin color. Most of the Sicilians are deeply racist (and this is one of the reason I hate my country so much), and things are going even worse in the last few years. These are the things seen from my personal point of view
@SatinDoll That's a better idea, good luck!
@SatinDoll every region in Italy has his own dialect, and they are all very different. For me it's impossible to understand a northern dialect, and viceversa. But don't worry for that :)
@SatinDoll I'm sorry for Tony 😂 we have been happily engaged for 7 years
This is hands down the best video I have ever seen about racism in Italy. I'm so thankful that finally someone has talked so honestly about this topic. Wish every italian could see it.
The lump in your throat that you described when considering the plight of black Italians, I got that same lump in my throat from listening to this video. As an indigenous European I feel a visceral anger at how our continent has let down the groups of people you describe in this video. Both the relative newcomers like yourself as well as the Europeans of more recent family lineage, like the black Italians. I live in Scotland. The political currents that have swept much of Europe have been resisted somewhat here. We decisively voted against Brexit, for example. But that's only a small mercy and I'm certainly not complacent. I listen to the experiences of black Scots and where I can, I spread the word about the changes that need to be made. I don't know what to say. I'm angry. I'm embarassed. But we'll keep struggling for the society we want together. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it was an illuminating listen.
Beautifully Said dear.
No country should have more than 5% non native population. That's when problems arise and the native are right if they don't accept the immigrants, especially when they are pretty much colonizing the other countries in big groups.
And remember, the native people don't want the immigrants, they don't owe them anything. You don't like the treatment? Feel free to leave, it's not the native people begging them to stay :)
You sound like the perfect npc 😂
@@Cavolfipriecapperi fool so what about italians living in germany in europe u should they deal with the same bullshit lie the blacks in italy are dealing with
There's a lot of racism in Italy and it comes in many forms, both aggressive and subtle. I'm a white, non Italian, been here 10 yrs, and even though I've received racial abuse as a foreigner, it's pales into insignificance compared to minority groups, especially towards Black Africans and Muslims. A recent story shocked me and even though I don't usually let things like this affect me, because there are idiots like this all over the world, this one hit me in the gut.
This happened a couple of months ago. A young black teenager, BORN IN ITALY, committed suicide because the community he grew up in would not accept him as an Italian. To the point that they chose not to shop at his place of work due to the fact he was black. After years of this degradation and being so lonely and isolated he chose to take his life. Apparently Italians still can't see they have a problem.
Yes, and the problem is too many of them here from Africa. In the 80's africans here were welcomed because they didn't have invaded our country yet, I can remember. To each his home.
That's sad. Should have gone back to his home
Where did that happen?
He should have gone to Africa where he would have belonged
@@tropics1513his home was Italy. He was born in Italy. Like what the heck.
You live in Milan, which is a bubble itself. There's a huge difference with the rest of Italy, please say that.
I think I've said it many times before, I would never live in any Italian city besides milan and one reason is the lack of ethnic diversity/integration in those cities vs milan.
@@misstiataylor_ I know it, I just meant that this should have been a disclaimer in this video
Non commento quasi mai i video, però mi sento di dire che Tia ha fatto un'analisi impeccabile. Io vivo a Verona e faccio parte dell'ultimo gruppo che ha citato e ho avuto la fortuna di conoscere altri neri, e non solo, della cosiddetta "seconda generazione" che hanno avuto esperienze simili alle mie in diverse città italiane, da Nord a Sud. Mi azzarderei a dire che Milano è una "bubble" perché il problema razzismo ha tinte meno forti rispetto a città meno multietniche e popolate, come invece se ne trovano nel resto d'Italia
@neldot da napoletana, condivido pienamente quanto hai puntualizzato. Anzi, volendo pure dire di più, mi sentirei di affermare che la connotazione classista del razzismo all'italiana (molto presente a Milano), a Napoli è praticamente nulla. Con questo non vogliamo certo dire che a Napoli il razzismo non esiste ma piuttosto che ha connotazioni fortemente diverse rispetto al resto d'Italia, ed essendo comunque la seconda più grande città d'Italia fa parte di quelle "bolle" (come Roma e Milano) che rappresentano gli umori del paese reale solo fino a un certo punto.
@neldot si in effetti al nord c'è una mentalità molto più classista, posso confermare, e siamo molto legati al fatto di migliorare il nostro stile di vita, guadagnando di più per ricevere maggior rispetto.. O per lo meno è quello che riguarda la mia esperienza.
That's absolutely correct! Here in Italy, the racism is based on classism mostly, not on the shade of your skin. It DOES exist, but I've never realized that because I grew up in a middle-upper class family which was very open-minded and I've always had a lot of "black" friends. Growing up I got closer to politic and I realised that in Italy (also because of the politic situation) there's a lot of racism, but no one wants to admit that. I'm pretty sure that with the next generations, like mine (I'm 16 rn) the situation will get better and the racism will be defeated almost everywhere in Italy, I really hope that. thanks a lot for this video
What amount of nonsenses you wrote..... Omg
Than i saw you have 16 yo and i understand the reason of your childish and incorrect statement....
Italy is perhaps the most warm and nice place for foreingners.... You need to grow up a little bit and Than see, how the sit is in other country and you will see with your own eyes, how kind italians People are....
@@bluesoul7163 Foreigners include migrants from poor African countries too, you know. And the fact that Giorgia Meloni has 14% of votes in the most recent surveys doesn't prove your point for sure
@@Hastdupech8509 in tutta Europa la destra radicale ha più consensi rispetto all' Italia.... La Meloni cosa poi? È chiaro la gente la vota, è una delle poche che ancora dubita di questa Europa delle banche e delle misure assurde per questa psicopandemia....
Ma poi l' Italia è il Paese che accoglie più migranti, che li tratta meglio e dove hanno più libertà... Pure quelle di delinquere...
Prova a far entrare lo stesso numero che entrano da noi, in Francia o Germania e ti rendi conto di chi è razzista.....
Siamo esterofili noi italiani e per niente razzisti per la stragrande maggioranza... Specie se confrontati con altri Paesi Occidentali...
@@Hastdupech8509 Ps devi guardare sul dizionario la differenza tra immigrazione legale e clandestina....
All' estero ancora hamno una parvenza di legalità, da noi entra chiunque.... Tanfo è un business....
Svegliaaaa
@@bluesoul7163 Stranieri sono anche i migranti. Punto. Se gli italiani sono diffidenti verso gli stranieri, clandestini e non, se dicono che c'è un'invasione e fomentano la xenofobia, non dire che l'Italia è il Paese che li accoglie meglio perché semplicemente stai dicendo la solita balla colossale degli italiani brava gente in salsa contemporanea.
L'Italia non accoglie neanche più migranti di tutti se questo è quello che pensi veramente, neanche in percentuale rispetto alla popolazione.
P.S.: il potere decisionale ridotto dell'Europa è causa proprio dell'ultradestra come quella di Giorgia che strepita ogni volta che si cerca di darne di più, accusando di cedere la sovranità e bla bla bla. Fate pace col cervello: volete che l'Europa sia efficiente e ci tuteli con misure per la pandemia facendo uso di poteri molto ampi, però nel contempo non volete concederli.
Sull'Europa delle banche non commento, è chiaro che da sostenitore di FdI per te il razzismo in Italia non esista, così come tante altre cose
I read an article the other week where a black-American exchange student went to Italy with her caucasian classmates, she said that when she was in Italy, people would cross the road to avoid her, a woman stared at her and screamed, people would refuse to give her directions and a man threw a beer in her face by a pool and no one got up to defend her, just a quiet look of sympathy from an African migrant that was within her view, some people were verbally racist with her too.
It broke my heart reading that, I'm mixed race & my Mother is a black woman, if this ever happened to her, it would destroy me inside, it as such a sad article to read.
I read an article about Santa Claus. Same shit.
@@Iujjdjcbjrujgsm this is just a fake new.
Nonsense
@@gaia7240 are you trying to say racism is nonsense
Great video. Coming from the UK (London) black british. I am love going all over Italy for holidays. ( I am a bit of an Italiaphile) I had never experienced any racism when there. Its so weird, but I could always feel that they could tell I was from England. Probably it was the way I present myself or the way I acted, but I was always treated differently in a positive way...
People respect foreign blacks from the uk. I’ve experienced this a lot, once I say I’m from London(I actually live in Berkshire). I get preferential treatment it’s weird lol
@@swiitdoll Same here. I started going to Italy in the 80's and can say that Italian friends are true friends and friends for life. Im a Londoner and dont have one white english friend. Its true friendship with italian people, they accept you as an equal whereas White people tolerate you but your not the same as them because your clearly not English.. I've been places where they have never set eyes on a black person, as long as you are armed with a modicum of Italian can communicate then you are fine. IM 55 now and still travel backwards and forwards to Rome , Sardegna.etc. I find the plight of the Africans on the street disturbing though because you don't see that in the UK.
No one will ever tell you anything... of course some idiots/drunk/bullish trash can be found anywhere..
@@swiitdoll it's the way you present yourself. Usually from experience, I can say that they don't care as long as you act "normal". As long as you aren't a bad person, you should be totally fine.
The same thing goes for every foreigner, regardless of ethnicity or country.
They could tell I was British too. I wondered how!!
penso che qui il razzismo non sia evidente come in altri paesi, ma sia silenzioso, esiste ma nessuno vuole ammettere che sia un problema pensando che sia peggio in altri paesi. io sono nata in latino america, ma visto che i miei nonni erano europei, non ho il "classico" aspetto che ci si aspetterebbe. il problema che abbiamo sempre affrontato io e la mia famglia è quando dicevamo di non essere nati in italia perchè subito ci categorizzavano come stranieri anche se abbiamo la cittadinanza italiana e viviamo qui da 11 anni. in generale sento che il razzismo si manifesti quando le persone pensano che tu sia una minaccia per la loro economia o quando hanno paura che l'italia possa essere vista negativamente per colpa tua. Io personalmente ho sentito la discriminazzione per il mio ingresso economico, poi quando saltava fuori che ero pure argentina ciaone..... adesso ci limitiamo a dire che siamo spagnoli, visto che è più accettato e dobbiamo fingere di far parte della classe media
Verissimo. Però vorrei fare una menzione importante che nessuno qui si rende conto. Fino agli anni 90, vedere in giro una persona di altri paesi era RARISSIMO. Cioè andavi in giro ed assumevi che tutti quelli che incontravi erano italiani, quindi facevi italiani = bianchi = italiani. Poi successivamente è iniziata in modo serio l'immigrazione dove molti scappavano da situazioni problematiche ed alcuni non si adattavano (minoranza) ad uno stile di vita totalmente differente. Quindi l'italiano medio faceva questa assimilazione straniero colore o non da italiano quindi, non sono italiani (magari lo erano dalla nascita). Ancora oggi in certi paesi limitrofi dove non vedi neanche uno straniero (esistono) ti guardano male a prescindere se non sei uno del posto. Ora il problema principale che molti hanno secondo me, è la paura di perdere la cultura italiana (quella buona) in favore di una certa "globalizzazione". Se notate molti commentano dicendo "non si adattano o non si comportano come noi", quell'affermazione sottintende che loro vogliono che tu ti assimili alla società. Ora in America il concetto è diverso perché fin dal principio la cultura Americana è stata sinonimo di "integrazione tra culture diverse" che quindi con tutta la fatica (ricordiamoci che sono passati anni ed anni prima che gli afro-americani arrivassero ad una ricognizione come giusto che sia) dove qui la cultura è una sola.
@@ripp102 capisco quello che dici e sono d'accordo con te, probabilmente questa potrebbe essere una delle radici del problema attuale. trovo assurdo che in certi contesti si venga discriminati per le proprie origini, che alla fine non dovrebbero essere così importanti tanto da limitare una persona. come hai detto tu questo è un periodo di transizione che sta affrontando l'italia a causa della globalizzazione, tuttavia non penso che sia del tutto giustificabile dato che adesso ci troviamo in altri tempi, in teoria più avanzati, quindi ci si aspetterebbe un'altra reazione tenendo di conto anche cos'è successo nella storia. questa mentalità viene trascinata dalle persone anziane o comunque quelle che vivono rinchiusi nella propria bolla ed il fatto che il governo ed i mezzi di comunicazione promuovano questa visione aggrava soltanto la situazione
@@nu.bee13 Si anche. Il discorso è che attualmente il governo per me (sono millennial) sa di vecchio. Cioè è composto da persone che escono da un periodo per così dire antico. È uguale al periodo della prima guerra mondiale dove, i generali di allora erano rimasti ad un modo di fare guerra antiquato che ha causato ai soldati italiani immense sofferenze perché non erano per niente preparati al cambiamento tecnologico/militare che la prima guerra mondiale ha portato. Allo stesso modo oggi, abbiamo dei politici che per il loro torna conto personale diffondono un certo "allarmismo" per ottenere voti facili ed "offuscare" la mente del popolo (perché popolo ignorante = popolo controllabile e prevedibile). Io nel mio piccolo cerco e cercherò sempre di innalzare la cultura delle persone che mi sono accanto nella speranza che un piccolo gesto possa portare in futuro ad un cambiamento in positivo.
Io invece sono venezuelana ed i miei nonni erano italiani quindi ho la cittadinanza. Personalmente non ho mai subito episodi di razzismo perché a priori le persone pensano sempre che io sia italiana, e quando dico che sono nata e cresciuta in Venezuela sento sempre lo stesso commento ''ma non sembri latinoamericana''. Io cerco sempre di spiegare che non c'è un archetipo del latinoamericano, che siamo troppo variegati e che puoi trovare persone con qualsiasi colore della pelle, e c'è chi ne prende atto e reagisce in modo positivo come c'è a chi non frega assolutamente niente. So di essere molto fortunata sul fatto di non aver subito mai discriminazione nei miei confronti, e mi dispiace un sacco quello che racconti. Penso però che la maggior parte delle persone parta solo da luoghi comuni che sono sbagliati perché non conoscono altro, e che se ti poni davanti a loro nel modo giusto, magari puoi anche correggerli e fargli cambiare il modo di vedere le cose.
O sea... Mejor evitar ir a Italia. No entiendo por qué vivir en un país que no te tiene respeto por quien eres, sino por tus orígenes.
I'm a black Italian, and thank you for explaining how I feel about racism in a country in which I consider part of, but my other fellow neighbors don't think I am.
bisogna essere proprio ciechi per non vedere il problema del razzismo in Italia...
Conta quello che senti. Fregatene di ciò che pensano gli idioti razzisti
@@lacasadipavlove in molti lo sono
Your channel seems very genuine and I appreciate the variety of topics. I also love how you address your growth and things you've learned overtime.
Totally agree with everything that has been said in the video, but there is a piece of info missing and that can explain further this shift in perception. The climate around the black community has changed and got worse also because of the refugee crisis in the last couple of years. There is an immediate association unfortunately that now is made towards black people escaping a difficult situation in Africa Sabsarhian and the economic cost that comes with it for European countries. This aspect should not be underestimated. It would be helpful if the narrative of the news related to immigration would be different, more focused on the positive. Media are a powerful tool, they "teach us" what to be mad about, what to care about...ever wonder why some sports are popular in some countries and not in others, it all come down to media coverage.
Exactly
I agree 💯
Perfect explained!! great video!! I am half Italian an half Croation and I was born and raised in Switzerland and I would say that the racism in Switzerland is similar to the racism you talk about in this video. Love your content. Love from Switzerland
I'm from Brazil, and despite the fact that here a huge part of the population are of black and racism exist in a very structured way, if you are a black person from thw western world and come here to live, probably you would have the same results if you are inside of a bubble as you said. If you step out of the your zone, and get into the real world all the prejudices starts to appear.
Racism appeared because we have a Bozo as a president
@@hugodaniel8975 unfortunately racism has always been here in Brazil, it's structured in our culture.
Hi Tia - I never comment on anything but I felt compelled to after viewing this video. You really hit the nail on the head compared to the last video you did on the topic (which I didn’t agree with). It’s clear you lived and experienced Italy more fully. As a black Italian/third culture kid with a west African mother and American/Caribbean father it rang painfully true. It really angers me when people treat you terribly when they think you’re African and then change their attitude when they find out you’re a western black person 😒
I ran away from Italy the first chance I got when I turned 18 (to Northern Europe) but it makes me so happy to see you thriving in a place where it’s seemingly impossible. Keep up the great work on your channel!
That is so sad that you had to move! Where in Northern Europe do you reside, and is it any better there. Because it’s still white people.
But if somebody put an Italian on the cover of a Nigerian or Angolan magazine and said “this is Nigerian beauty” black people would react the same way.
Italian expat here. I'm ideologically light years away from the Lega average voter. In the political spectrum, I am really far from conservatives, and I think that changing is a crucial fact to development.
However, I feel the strong need to bring up a point that many often seem to overlook: developing towards the integration of new ethnicities should not necessarily mean changing the Italian culture. Our tradition is not just something old that we like to revive here and there with local sagre di paese, it's our identity and the most precious thing we have to offer to the market!!
I am saying this because so many Italian hipsters refuse the Italian culture and want Italy to look and act as the USA or as Scandinavian nations. But that completely misses a big point: we are not northeners!! We are people of the Mediterranean, we are passionate, we spend years of our lives cooking for our families, and most importantly, we value relax and godersi la vita.
The path that many suggest is to become a pragmatic, northener-like country, when in fact that would just annihilate our culture making us become just one among many other countries in the world, and that is marketing and economically wise stupid.
The solution is to integrate newcomers and their children to the Italian culture, making them learn local languages like Sicilian and Venetian and watching them grow as Italians, Italians who love Italy and who for that reason will make Italy grow to its full potentials. In this view, Ius Culturae and Ius Soli are great ideas.
So in conclusion, we should not "adapt Italy to the modern times" but we should adapt modern times to Italy.
pitzboechannel that would be enough for these liberal fruitcakes to call you a fascist
Good luck assimilating people who are nothing like you culturally or genetically especially in the numbers that are arriving. You are naive
That's not gonna work dumbass most are not going to want to adapt to the culture. Keep the imagrents out.
Really liked this comment. It is the right perspective. Italian culture is our most valuable asset, we should work to make immigrants Italian and at the same time embrace their diversity
Well said, Frederico and to the original commenter for this thread. I’m bored with how many countries are copying Scandinavian and USA aesthetics.
100% correct. It's all well and good when you only mix with the liberal, middle-class, urban, cosmopolitan classes where you are recognised as one of them. It's a different ballgame when get out of that protected social enclave and people don't know you are a professional expat from the US but mistake you for one of the many undocumented African immigrants that hang around Italy's train stations. In any case, at the bottom of the Italian ethnic pecking order are not blacks, but people who may look not all that different from Italians: Muslims and Roma
Very insightful, "life is not black or white." Your observations about Italy proved that point.
You nailed it, Italians are so scared of changes, but changes are inevitable, they are making it only so much more painful for themselves.
Vendemmia niente è inevitabile!apparte là morte! nothing is inevitable except death
@Lorenzo Pastore io lavoro all'estero in banca, il disastro che descrivi ve lo godete voi :-*
@Lorenzo Pastore wow, so smart, so sharp!
caro lorenzo, stai proprio messo male;D
Vendemmia you literally sound like someone who dislikes Italian culture and wants to replace it not change it. You sound like the ‘diversity’ no country wants.
@@foreverdumb7381 the problem of italians has nothing to do with culture and a lot to do with ignorance.
Italian culture is deeply founded in diversity.
and I am not "diversity", I am italian too so I cannot sound like the diversity no country want.
I'm African and my plan is to visit Italy in the future to explore the beauty of it, but always was scared of racism bc for some reason i thought it would be worse in Italy idk
Hey, don’t be scared, just ignore the old racists in our country and you’ll be fine.
@@yareyaredaze4618 I'm sorry for what you went through. You're right I shouldn't have said this since I'm not a foreigner. I'm sorry.
I don't think Italians are concerned about visitors, but rather about people who want to stay in Italy.
There is racism and fascism in Italy. Be careful but have fun!
Austria is a lot better
I'm 20 and I live in Venice and from what I see, what you said applies perfectly here too, even though I'm not sure about the situation of italian-africans, because I think they are considered as fully Italians.
I'm white and I was born here so I've never faced race issues and obvuoiusly I'm talking for my generation. What I wanted to tell you is to keep in mind that if you'll have kids my generation will be the one at the government, a much more aware one, so hopefully your kids won't have to live in the same type of society you live in. We can't do much for the older generations, our grandmas and grandpas, because most of them were brought up with a fascist mentality in the Mussolini era (and after he died the culture remained of course), you just need to look at how the Etiopia campains were organized, the posters fascists hung in the cities that were extremely racist, but I do think we are getting better, generation after generation. I'm positive that we're headed the right way.
I am an english white expat and though people think being white is rosy but italians dont like english. I was abused in hospital like not givng me any premed before a serious op ordering me around. Endoscopy without any aneasthetic,husband is irish and italians like irish treat his totally differentally, you dont need tobe black to be abused, or snubbed. Italians wont employ non italians we worked fo othet expats as gardeners.
LOL Not all Brits are rosey, i'm Italian and fairer than many English i have known. About hospital you are talking BS.. 🤡🤡
Very interesting! I would say your point of view is the same for Spain today. As an African-Spanish woman, it is very interesting to see how people's reactions change when I am known for my UK upbringing or if they know I am African & Spanish (Spanish nationality too)... BIG difference. Sad but all you said makes sense, I can see how this would apply to Italy too. Great honest video! Also, love your hair :)
Your experience is your own and I'm happy that you're doing well and are not experiencing racism However I would be careful saying you are speaking for "blacks" in general. You are financially stable, a westerner, and live in Milan which as you said is diverse
She didn't say that she didn't experienced racism, she said the opposite, she said she experienced racism in Italy, she also talked about it in another video.
Anch'io non sono molto d'accordo sul fatto che un posto come Milano (come altre città del nord), in quanto più aperto e multiculturale, sia meno razzista di posti magari più piccoli al centro o al sud. Per la cronaca, io sono piemontese e vivo a Torino. Io vorrei aggiungere qualcosa raccontandovi quanto segue. Parliamo di almeno 30 anni fa. Nel paesino di montagna dove trascorro le mie vacanze, veniva sempre un marocchino a vendere le sue mercanzie. Faceva il giro dei paesi. Quando arrivava, prima di tutto veniva fatto entrare, gli veniva dato da bere e da mangiare se era ora di pranzo, e poi esponeva le sue cose, e così passava di casa in casa. Soprattutto gli anziani dimostravano questo atteggiamento. Parlo di persone alcune molto chiuse, montanari culturalmente limitati, che spesso passavano il tempo a litigare fra loro in dialetto per delle czzate di vicinato. Ma verso lo straniero, di colore, sì c'era un po' di diffidenza, ma prevalevano valori come l'ospitalità, l'accoglienza e anche un po' di curiosità. Questo deve far riflettere. Forse non è un fatto tanto culturale o di arretratezza. L'elemento che prevale oggi in Italia è la paura. Percepiamo la realtà attraverso paura e incertezza. Talora ingiustificate. Quando Salvini si vantava di una riduzione di omicidi e reati nell'ultimo anno, portava furbescamente dati che in realtà seguono un trend costantemente positivo da decenni, nonostante l'immigrazione. Siamo oggettivamente più sicuri ma percepiamo maggiore insicurezza. Guardate adesso le reazioni per il Coronavirus. Questa paura è usata da alcuni personaggi politici come un'arma di propaganda e viene alimentata. Non parlo solo di Salvini. Pensiamo al seguito che hanno certi gruppi di estrema destra nella periferia di Roma per esempio, dove si vivono situazioni di forte degrado economico e sociale. Altro esempio è il modo in cui si danno le notizie oggi. I titoli dei telegiornali sono accompagnati da stacchi musicali studiati per creare ansia. Si vende meglio il proprio prodotto a chi ha paura. Io penso che la crescita del razzismo in Italia vada di pari passo con la crescita della paura, una paura cosmica, esistenziale, spesso priva di senso.
Fanno leva sulle paure ataviche, e la xenofobia purtroppo è una di esse, biologicamente parlando non è diversa dalla mia paura delle galline e dei cigni...
Succedeva la stessa cosa da mia nonna (Calabria)..ricordo che quando ero molto piccola c'era un uomo di origine marocchina che veniva di casa in casa a vendere vestiti insieme al figlio (che poi prese il suo posto) e veniva trattato bene nonostante l'ignoranza galoppante dell'epoca.
Le grandi città italiane, con l'eccezione forse di Napoli, sono generalmenre più razziste dei piccoli centri di provincia. Io vengo da un piccolissimo paesino del Sud dove già negli anni '90 c'erano intere famiglie di marocchini, albanesi e rumeni perfettamente integrate nel tessuto sociale ed economico. Mai registrati episodi di intolleranza, né di tipo razziale né di altro tipo (già vent'anni fa avevamo due transessuali, di cui uno rom, anche loro del tutto integrati e rispettati).
I’m a Black American and I lived in turkey and Serbia. I’ve experienced racism in those countries and when I call some of them out on it. They will say I didn’t call you the n word. There a several ways to be racist. Even when I had met Africans that weren’t Americanized they were okay with these racist acts from them. They were approving it which was making me feel crazy.
What was the financial situation of those Africans?
I think is not really about the rasism, is about a teritory. If you are Black or Yellow, it doest not take a genious, to find out that you are a stranger...Is sort of basic teritorial instinc, similar think would happen in most countries, I guess. I know it is hard to take....but human in general are teritorial..
You are crazy 😂, USA blacks are paranoid as hell
We had a black miss Italia like 20 years ago...
It's so weird for me to hear all of this and recognise stereotypes that I've been taught since i was a kid. What you said resonates with the mindset and ideas that Italians generally have about black people and minorities in general. I've never thought about it that much, but it's scary how the way you see other groups is deeply rooted into you, whether you want it or not, and it depends on the cultural environment you were raised in. Luckily, I would say a lot of people are able to distance themselves from the first (possibly racist) thought that automatically comes into their mind and be rational
As always you covered the issue beautifully, deeply and with intelligence.
I'd like to add one thing, if you travel enough and integrate enough in other societies you realize that every country has some form of racism, like North Africans can be racist towards black Africans, black Africans are racists towards other black Africans of other regions/countries, or they can be racist towards asians, or towards white Europeans. Germans and British can be racist towards Italians, and so on.
Anyway, to me, what your parents though is true, those were a..holes, because basically that's what a racist is ;)
Well put my dear. The reality is if you look at history and the fall of regions and empires , this reality existed for everyone.
I think we Italians fear more illegal immigration.
And yes, people care a lot about our culture.
I totally agree with you, you have the same thing in countries or cities like Dubai, they dont care about the fact you are black, but you will be treated worst or well as per the country you are coming from, if you are black from a developped or western country you will be treated much better than coming from a poor country. How silly is our world!!! God Helps Us!!
Aggiungo il mio pensiero ponderato su questo argomento. Abito in un piccolo paesino, sin da quando ero piccola le persone di colore per me erano Eddie Murphy e Will Smith. Poi alle volte andando a fare la spesa con i miei genitori vedevo altre persone di colore fuori dai supermercati a chiedere elemosina. Sono cresciuta e all'università le uniche persone di colore che vedevo erano turisti o mendicanti e questo come dicevi giustamente tu ha creato la differenza Americano/Nigeriano, solo per una questione economica. Adesso i bambini a scuola hanno come compagni di classe bambini di colore e non solo, cinesi, arabi etc etc. Io sono convinta che questa cosa porterà (non nell'immediato purtroppo...) alla consapevolezza ed all'accettazione. Siamo un popolo molto radicato nelle sue convinzioni, non siamo cattivi ma è da poco, soprattutto nelle province, che ci stiamo affacciando ad una realtà che è normale in altri paesi del mondo... con gli italiani ci vuole pazienza!! :)
Credo che di pazienza ne abbiamo già avuta troppa :)
I'm a white Brazilian that lived in Italy for three years, at the begging I didn't knowed Italian and I was communicating in English, and I was thereated so well. Than I started to learn and speak Italian and also to work in less paid jobs, like babysitting, the treatment was huge different! As a South American, I felt that some Italians are ignorant about my culture and even being white I've felt xenophobia sometimes, for having an accent, for being from a not developed country.
You are very beauty 😘. Love from 🇮🇹
Ok with the rest, but why the hell should another country know your culture?
@@Cavolfipriecapperi Ignorance is a bliss?
Well, entitlement seems a common factor in a lot of immigrants :)
whow so is not only blacs that face racism in italy shit this is so crazy
13:21 I swear, i love you for that. Great job!
I have live in Italy for nearly 8 years, and i can agree with all this lady said in this video. It could be a nightmare to integrate sometimes in Italy. And wait 10 years to ask the citizen is a lot of time if you compare with Germany or Spain.
Good video.
In Spain is 10 years too, in Germany 8 years
@@lacasadipavlov I saw is 4 years if are from Latin America (but maybe I'm wrong)
@@cabezon667 Yes you are right, but that's an exception because of the colonial past ;)
I'm italian and I totally agree with you, I only want to add one more thing. In Italy first black people appeared a few dozen years ago. I really think that Italians are not racist beacause they hate black people but only because they don't know them. I really don't know anyone who knows black people that is also racist. When you don't know something you can easily be influenced by television and politicians, who unluckily nowadays are doing a huge campaign against immigration
Green Parrot
Sorry, but that’s a lame excuse for racists. Ignorance is no longer an acceptable excuse to hate people and dehumanize them based on race. We all have TV, we live in a globalized, science advanced world so we know black people are part of the human race, there’s a continent full of them so the 1800s excuse of ignorance is no longer acceptable. I understand that Italians are more driven by xenophobia which is hate of foreigners than actual hate of black skin for most people compared to America, but they express it through racism so must be acknowledged as such.
@@Lilyrose23 exactly. Plus black people have always been in Italy. There has been African presence in Europe since the middle ages so black didn't just show up in any European country only a few years ago.
I excuse if It looked like a racist comment but It was not my purpose. Italy is a place of culture but also a place of ignorance as well. I'm not telling that "all the Italians are racist" or "all the Italians are ignorant" but in fact this problem exists. In big cities the situation is different compared with the small cities' one and Italy Is not only made by Rome and Milan. Foreigners have been since a long time in Italy, of course, but It Is not true in small towns in 'provincia'. For example my father told me that he had first seen a black man when he was twenty, it's a fact. Not all the things that hurt other people are made because of malvagity, the world isn't black or white but there Is a huge spectrum of shades of Gray. Hate should never be accepted but I think that there is no way to solve a problem whithout understanding the reasons why it exists
Green Parrot I have to fully agree with you. In Bergamo, where I live, the first black people arrived around the 1990s and before that very few people in the city had even seen a black person. Now instead there’s a big mix of cultures and ethnicities and I’ve lots of friends with bergamasco origins and with foreign origins and I don’t rally see racism. The only problem imo is that because of the lack of jobs new arrived immigrants tend to sell things on the street and particularly in the center of Bergamo they tend to be aggressive and some people, particularly the elderly, tend to believe that all of them are like that even tho it isn’t
Green Parrot I agree with you, Italy wants to keep their Italy Italian and that’s ok. A lot of non Italian Citizens don’t realize how much taxes Italians have to pay when the illegals are there selling things and making money . So it’s not just about color but it’s about being able to live in their own country without struggling !
Totally agree with you on your parents not recognizing what racism is. My parents are Nigerian but I was raised in the US. My dad literally is a trump supporter and thinks racism is normal. I literally had to tell him that people feel unsafe and scared in their own country and he should stop sharing his political beliefs with him.
In Italia piu` che razzismo il problema e la xenofobia, non penso che la stragrande maggioranza della popolazione ritenga inferiore o provi repulsione per una determinata etnia, quanto invece il fatto che vi sia una combinazione fra crisi economica, immigrazione clandestina e diminuzione dell'istruzione pubblica; tutti e tre questi fattori, uniti ad una pessima politica dove la sinistra ha sempre utilizzato il tema migranti a scopo elettorale come la destra con Salvini che sfrutta tale situazione incrementando tale odio. Il razzismo anzi, a mio modo di vedere e molto piu` presente in altre zone del mondo specie dove vi e` un nazionalismo esasperato, e` onnipresente in tutti i continenti poiche` vi e` sempre una tendenza nel difendere la propria identità, son concorde sul fatto che vi sia una correlazione fra stato economico/sociale e discriminazione.
No bro, io direi che sti due cancri sono messi insieme sia razzismo che xenofobia, vedo i mie compagni di classe che mando stickers e robbe razziste/xenofobiche, sei fortunato che tu non le abbia viste perché ti metteresti in ridicolo per la situazione del nostro paese.
che stronzata. la xenofobia é semplicemente un aspetto del razzismo
finalmente un commento serio. basterebbero regole fatte bene per gestire l'immigrazione clandestina ( e la garanzie di pene ed espulsioni ) e non ci sarebbe più da discutere di razzismo
I'm speaking as latin american living in Milan, yeah you said everything right, you pointed out every issue in this country.
I agree with everything you said, you put it perfectly! another thing Italians hate is being called racist 😂😂😂I remember the feedback I got on my video about racism and how no one actually listened to what I said, they were just angry that I called Italians racist. vabbè. I hope by the time you have kids this country will be somewhat better. and even if it’s not, I know you’ll instill great values in them
Ahahah!! You are 100% right!!!
Well, who likes being called racist?
Diegopiffa wouldn’t be called racist if they weren’t racist. definitely worse experiencing racism than being called a racist
@idk non siamo un popolo di razzisti, siamo contro l'immigrazione che è totalmente diverso, voi siete un popolo di vittimisti.
@@adaezeschannel Cause it's true we are not racist, we are against the immigration ... Especially the migrants who live here illegally. It's funny that you're always ready to call Italians racist, but here nobody got killed by the Police 🤷
My cardiologist is african and he graduated from university here in my city. This is the first time I meet a foreign doctor in my italian hospital and I m so glad about it (i work as a translator and I love to meet people from other countries) I have so much respect for my cardiologist.
Tanto non ti tromba.
12:10 so true , I had to wait 18 years to get the italian citizenship despite being born in Italy even if I have it I don't fell like I belong to Italy at all, I've never really felt to be treated like an italian and at this point I don't even care, I don't care about italians anymore.
America is a race based society. It's an extremely racist country. European countries are not based on race but more on classism and consequently nationality. Which leads to discrimination in the end. Which is the pure definition of racism.
09:06 that's the basis of racism.
10:59 That's the case for 99% of black Europeans.
12:12 That's common in many countries. And the reason being is because you are a minor. And sometimes your nationality of origin and the Italian one are not compatible. So you can't have double citizenship, so that means that as a child you are under your parents rights and legal status. And you will have to wait to be an adult to choose which citizenship you want to adopt.
15:10 Or probably not. Most likely they will be surrounded by (your people) people who accepts them because of who they are, not because of a nationality. And they will live their lives with other Italians who accepts them as equal, and they would disregard the rest.
15:27 In Switzerland is like that as well. Even 3rd generations Italians here call themselves Italians.
15:59 If they were completely disregarded, that black model wouldn't have been the cover of Vogue.
responding to your last comment, the black ITALIAN (this is the important part because black westerners are on magazine covers all the time) girl on the cover of vogue ITALIA was a huge deal and a huge accomplishment thanks to years of second generation Italians fighting for recognition. I actually hear italians say all the time that black italians do. not. exist. That cover wasn’t just “given” “because” it was accomplished and there’s a difference.
@@misstiataylor_ Answering to your comment: this is the important part because black westerners are on magazine covers all the time.
Well this is not true. You have to see from which countries.
Italy didn't have colonies, so this affects how they see black people from poor countries. And how a black face can be portrayed as Italian Beauty, without having to be accomplished. In Spain, or any Scandinavian country it would have been exactly the same.
The only exception I can think about is Germany because of their horrible story, that by no means they want to be repeated in any sense.
Countries such as France or the UK, which are quite into fashion, have had colonies and the generations of black immigrations dates way back. And they have gone through some of the issues Italy is facing today. So that's the reason you may see more blacks on covers.
Agree on your point 12:12. This is one of the many agreements between EU countries. Fellow EU citizens are granted greater rights than those who are from non-EU countries. If your parents are from Oz, Nigeria, US etc, you don't benefit from this. Its literally about geography. My cousins were born in Switzerland (non-EU but might as well be) but that didn't grant them Swiss citizenship. American father and British mother meant they started with British citizenship and had to apply for Swiss. In fact one of them didn't get it, for one reason or another, which has caused him a few problems to say the least. However, there is no expectation of a "right". The rules of the country are "ABC", and so you must jump through the relevant hoops if you want "XYZ". Its just the way it is and people know that, and may in fact consider it fair. Some countries are just stricter than others, unfortunately.
@@nadine7327 Italy had colonies in Africa. Ethiopia, Eritrea and Libya are all ex-italian colonies.
About the black models not being on the cover of magazines in Italy is a complete lie. Different models of colour have been on the face of vogue magazines in italy during Franca Sozzani legacy. Besides black models have been on the cover of Vogue Japan, Arabia, Australia. Models that pose for cover magazines don't necessarily need to come from the country of the magazine.
November Soul Yes, that‘s why all those countries have Italian as official languague.
As a Muslim whenever I say we face this issue some black ppl think I’m trying to compete with them or say hey pay attention to us more and that’s not the case so thank you saying that , even though there’s so many light skin ones it’s head wrap that’s the issue
“Diversity and multiculturalism goes hand in hand with development.” PREACH 🙌
go to iraq and try islamic culture lol.
Replace "development" with "conflict and lawenforcers refusing to enforce the law in fear of being accused of racism"
I like the fact that you don't feed the machine, aka fuel the fire, and just present a calm, fair and intelligent perspective.
I agree with you 100% and particularly with what you said in the latter half of the video. I am a 3rd GENERATION Italian-American, yet I often get treated more like an Italian than Italian-born people of color. I could cite multiple examples of this.
I’ve had many conversations with my Italian counterparts about this and it’s either met with substantial resistance or “well, racism in America is different than in Italy”. And they’re right, it is. But like you said, things are changing and quickly. These challenges are something I’m hoping Italians can meet with the same grace they often do other social circumstances
Hi Tia, thank you. It takes an external, neutral but knowledgeable and experienced eye like yours to analyse this. I grew up in Italy, but I would have not been able to put it quite like this. I live in the UK and Brexit proved me I live in a bubble. My bubble is made of social status. I have a good job, cultured people around me, probably some degree of self imposed blindness of what is out there but is too hard to face. And never would I ever have imagined that the average Brit wants us all out... I have kids and what you say about black Italians touched a cord. They have dual nationality, with both parents being Italian. I cannot imagine how hard must feel to be denied your national identity, it feels much similar to the LGBT+ struggles.
Very good video.
We Italians have a complicated relation with racism.
Often we are tempted to say it does not exist. It all comes from the very deep belief that we are "brava gente", maybe poor, a bit loud and excessive but good in the end.
That's really nice and comforting thought but also a dangerous one: for example we are not very aware in the mainstream culture about the crimes our ancestors made in Africa with the colonies, and even the crimes of the fascists are denied or ignored by a worring number of 'normal italian people' meaning non only the crazy rightwing guys.
The comments on the Italian Blacks are tragically correct.
There are infinite examples, we as a society are like mentally stuck in the Nineties on this issue.
Back then I was a kid, and the vast majority of the immigrant families from Africa were here since less than 5-10 years. They were 'il bambino ghanese' or simply 'africano'.
But Now 30 years later for too many people they are still african. Not italian.
Probably the most famous example is Mario Balotelli. Born in Italy, raised in my city of Brescia, he has a stronger 'accento bresciano' than me. He became a successful football player, even successful in the National Football Team, but to a lot of people he's sadly not italian.
Same as Ozil?
Why don’t you tell the world about the racist choirs against Ballottelli during football matches that forced him to leave the game several times? It says everything. Anyway I like your explanation as to why Italians deny being racist. What matters is: they are, and Italy is different from other European countries and much less inclusive and broad minded. It was on the low end of the TOLERANCE (also toward gays) list among countries in the west. Anyone who denies Italy is more racist and more narrow minded and ignorant and backwards than other European countries, is backwards and ignorant.
In france and the uk, black people are everywhere, a common part of society. Not in Italy. It’s the lack of mobility and simply less immigration. Only poor Africans migrate to italy. Italians migrate to Germany, Germans don’t migrate to italy…it is simply a less welcoming country and more backwards and narrow minded as a result.
Are there black university and high school teachers in Italy? Never seen one. If there are are extremely rare and will get the Ballottelli treatment.
But again, before racism there is simply being obtuse. If you’re obtuse, of course you’re also racist. Racism isn’t the core problem. Stubbornness is. Italians are very very stubborn.
Italy is xenophobic. Fact full stop. Germany isn’t. A few nazi idiots don’t make the whole Germany xenophobic. The average Italian is xenophobic and everything else is a lie of the xenophobic.
I think I have to literally think about this video for three days before I actually comment. You’re brilliant, reason why I watch you since you came to Italy.
ITALY = MONEY ... so It doesnt matter what color Religion blablabla you are ..as soon you "look" rich
Actually is not even Important to Spend Money just you have to look like someone who can
EUROPE = CAUCASIANS we dont want to be replaced
@@ghonbon6341 In the US Italians are consider not white
Thanks for this video . I’m Nigerian and I’m looking forward to studying in Italy. I’m a little bit scared because of the cultural differences and the term ‘racism’. I’m trying to learn Italian online so that It’ll be easier for me. I want to know if it’ll be better to go for a course in English or go for a course in Italian. The particular course that I want is taught in Italian. I don’t know how that is going to play out and It makes me very skeptical about it. I would really love to talk to you. Is there a way I can contact you ?
wow!! are you really going to learn Italian in order to study here?? That's remarkable, congratulations ;)
@@lacasadipavlov sure! I would love to speak
Italian fluently. Grazie
@@princessujay May I ask you what are you going to study?
@@lacasadipavlov
Psychology
This was a really interesting and informative video. Thank you for taking the time to create and upload it. 🙏🏽 It was very helpful with understanding life in Italy as a Black person. It’s a lot to think about.
It is a really interesting, nuanced video and I certainly subscribe to your thesis that there is a lot of xenophobia/racism in Italy. And not from now: I lived in London, in the 80s, and I was shocked to hear some racist comments made by some Italian acquantainces about a Nigerian friend of mine only on the basis of his race. Obviously it is impossible to be racist ... when there are no black people around and in the 80s the only black people I had ever seen in Milan were some Eritreans... and I had never heard any comments about them, probably because I was living in my middle class, progressive bubble. But as soon as I got out of it I was exposed to some crass racism, which totally took me by surprise.
The funny thing was that I then moved to a different European State where I was exposed to some micro (and one macro) aggressions for being .... Italian.
Exactly, what Salvini and other fellow Italians don't understand is that we are considered "trash" in the rest of Europe, tutto il modo è paese after all.
Thank you for making this video. I'm going on almost 2 years in Italy and I'm in the "western black" category. I've done it all - lived in my bubble, learned the language, integrated, etc. I've experienced racism in each category. It was tough. Yes, racism is everywhere. But this video isn't about "every country" - it's about Italy. I now tend to slip back into the bubble sometimes or just spend my time inside studying.
How do you do it? Why not leave?
It's the stares for me being black. A lot of Italians will just stare at you
Italians can be mean to each other strictly for being from a different town or region. What makes you think a foreigner aint getting some of that heat? If you basically arn't Italian or not from some sort of sister Mediterranean culture you gonna get treated like a square. This girl probably lives more privileged a life than most ethnic Italians south of Tuscany.
Yeah shes a whiny little baby. Italians rule!
@@YoungOddo Italy is a bad country anyways why do u think all foreigners are moving out of it cos the country has no prospects only spaghetti and pizza
@@itzsammy6320 yeah move out please.
@@itzsammy6320 I'm english but italy is amazing.
Even for the north of Italy
That sounds so accurate... It breaks my heart to see that people still don't respect each other. What's more, and what's worse, is that the people who should give an example to the citizens are the first ones to behave ignorantly. About the "being poor" topic, could it be that the church imprints such an image in kids that go to church-held schools (hopefully not willingly)?
Really enjoy the videos, you got a new subscriber! Cheers from Italy :)
Hai proprio centrato il punto. Sono nera con due genitori di due paesi africani completamente diversi ma sono nata e cresciuta in Italia. Ho vissuto per 18 anni in una bolla costruita dai miei genitori che mi hanno fatto frequentare le scuole migliore e gli ambienti migliori e non ho mai concretamente affrontato il razzismo, eppure lo sentivo, sentivo come la gente parlava di quelli che erano neri come me. Poi il fatto della cittadinanza è sempre stato un problema; avendo genitori di nazionalità diverse non sapevo come identificarmi: non era italiana perché gli italiani non potevano essere neri, così si dice. Poi la cultura dei miei genitori l’avevo solo conosciuta e mai assimilata del tutto. Ora vivo e studio in Olanda perché preferisco essere considerata straniera in un altro paese piuttosto che esserlo a casa mia. L’Italia non mi manca, mi manca la famiglia, gli amici e tantissimo la mia città, che per me rimane la città migliore del mondo. Ogni tanto penso a quando e se tornerò, ma ho paura, perché quella bolla in cui sono cresciuta potrebbe non esistere più.
Mariame questo penso sia il commento che mi ha fatto piu male di tutti quelli mai letti in tanti anni. Spero tu un giorno possa tornare a casa.
quanta bello il paragrafo e hai scritto. io ho un simile situazione come te pero vivo a londra da 7 anni e vado al universita
ma questo è un problema comune nel mondo da parte di tutti i figli di immigrati. Capita purtroppo che ci sia difficoltà nel sentirsi parte di una cultura. sicuramente ci sono degli ostacoli esterni, come anche ci sono ostacoli "interni" legati alla sensibilità personale. razzismo vuole dire discriminazione e odio per il colore della pelle, ma questo sentimento che esprimi tu, lo provavano anche gli italiani che emigravano in belgio o in sudamerica. l'hanno provato i figli dei miei prozii emigrati in belgio dopo la seconda guerra mondiale. non buttiamo tutto nel calderone del razzismo per favore. non sto negando che esista, ma non facciamo l'errore di interpretare ogni disagio come razzismo, altrimenti si finisce come la favola di pierino e il lupo: la cosa perde importanza agli occhi delle persone. viene da farlo anche a me: ogni cosa che non va bene è perchè siete razzisti, non sanno dire altro? non sanno argomentare i problemi? tante volte non riesco a prendere sul serio le accuse di razzismo. vuoi che ti faccia un esempio? ho venduto un mobile a un ragazzo di colore e l'ho aiutato a portarlo in casa sua. mi ha mostrato la casa e mi ha spiegato che aveva problemi con la caldaia difettosa. mi ha detto che il padrone di casa non voleva cambiargliela, probabilmente, ha aggiunto, per il colore della pelle. mi è venuto da ridere: ero in affitto pure io in quel periodo e avevo lo stesso problema. la caldaia difettosa non me la cambiavano. era per il colore della pelle? ovviamente i padroni di casa (mio e suo, differenti padroni di casa ovviamente) non volevano accollarsi il costo, a casa mia come a casa di questo ragazzo! perchè ogni problema deve essere visto come un qualcosa legato al razzismo? è ovvio che quando poi il razzismo c'è davvero uno minimizza perchè si perde la capacità di distinguere quando è razzismo vero e quando è solo una cosa buttata lì per dare il nome a qualsiasi disagio.
Noi Italiani abbiamo una cultura troppo forte e tradizionalista, non siamo come altri paesi europei. È una questione di indentità.
@@alessiosicuro2114 ho capito amico mio pero essere razzisti contro l altri e un gran no no per me . magari la cultura italiano un pochino chiusa pero la discriminazione contro altre persone non va bene amico mio
Great video, but you're wrong about Americans being given opportunities in Italian universities and Africans not, I got admitted to universities in Pisa, Rome and Milan based on merit and even in interviews, I could tell they were more impressed by my grades and didn't question that my previous university was African.
I might be late but I love, love, LOVE the hair Tia!!!!
thank you :)
@@misstiataylor_ they suck. Africa's calling?
i have worked in Africa for many years. i am from East Europe,i have to say that i encountered racism in african countries.
Oh Tia mi spiace tantissimo, non hai idea di quanto le tue parole mi spezzino il cuore. L'Italia è il mio paese, ma quello che dici purtroppo è vero, spero che sia solo una piccola parentesi. ❤.
I really hate the world "expat". it is just a way to differentiate rich (usually white) people living abroad. the right word is "immigrant". when you arrive in the airport there is only the immigrant gate, not the immigrant and the expat gates. (and I say that as an Italian immigrant)
obviously. But in the context of this video which talks about how italians in Italy treat you based on your perceived wealth it makes perfect sense, hence why I used it.
Just a comment about Italian politics (which btw is far detached from the most part of actual society) many of the voters of the far right/right party (because there's no actual moderate right/liberal party or representation in Italy) are probably just dissatisfied with how the left wing dominant party is handling the country; feeling a lack of care and sovereignty, which leaves you (as an Italian citizen) think that the political system doesn't care for its country wealth and economic advancement.
Unfortunately or maybe fortunately xD Italy has abandoned the liberal right movement started with Berlusconi, which was super bigot, corrupted and the more you investigate the worse it gets.... but fundamentally it could've led to a new Italian economic renaissance and identity a bit like a budget US.
Instead the country was unable to innovate and led first to the rise of a left wing movement which first seemed to kill the leftovers of mid class after the 2008 economic crisis, and then prompted the pooer and lesser cultured Italian society to vote for parties that are pushing medieval propaganda.
And as i kinda referenced it before with the "Berlusconi era", it all goes back to the Italian society being unable to evolve and create an healthy society, the procrastination always ends up to bite sooner or later, and this is why Italy is a slowly dying country that can't repair to, or maybe won't face, the mistakes done in the past, to create a new better self that can keep up with the rest of the world.
Also i totally agree with you that Italian society is way underdeveloped in terms of integration and the super politically correct press,politicians and media (music, actors and other famous people in Italy) just goes to show how underdeveloped and late the integration in Italy is compared to basically any other western European country... we have black and white no space in between and as you can imagine neither of them is gonna do good in the long run.
So true... I am Living in Italy since I am 13 yo. I studied here in high school and I finished my college here. I have never seen a black, slavic or whatever lawer or teacher in public school. I have seen foreign doctors and nurses in public hospitals thou. Same in public offices, you'll hardly come across a black or chinese employee in ''comune''. This shows how different these groups are treated.
I am glad you've resealed this video. When I watched your first video, I felt disappointed actually, because you were (unconsciously) portraying a very small reality of Italy. Belonging to the "half Italian" group, I am glad you've come to realise the reality that myself and so many of the people close to me have experienced in their lives. Having lived abroad now for 5 years, I always feel it again every time I got back home to my small hometown in Italy and also from other Italians in the country where I currently live. I know so many half/black Italians who have moved abroad. Italy is missing out on a lot of things, from an economic and cultural point of view. I am saddened to hear that you don't feel comfortable anymore about having a family in Italy, I hope things get better and wish you all the happiness in your future
This is so so interesting to me. I am not black, I'm a white Australian, so I can honestly say this is not something I can claim to know much about, but I have studied anthropology for a lot of years and it's really strange to see a society where a "western" black person is treated relatively normally but an "eastern" black person is treated with racial prejudice. In a way, it's like society in Italy begun to change its views on race, but only did it halfheartedly by accepting the most visible. I think what you said about being a "western" black in Italy and using your privilege to help others is a really important thing.
I think you should consider the role of immigration. The reason why black people from poor countries are treated with "racial prejudice" is because "a lot" (or at least, that's what Italians perceive) of black unskilled people from poor countries are recently coming to Italy
Think to Australia and your motto " You will not make Australia your home" pointing at immigrants instead of trying to school Italians.
@@alessandrom7181 Australian government has a huge issue with accepting immigrants, unfortunately many of us have been protesting the unfair treatment of immigrants and asylum seekers for many years. I am not trying to 'school' anyone, if you thought this then you read my comment wrong.
Before I even start the video, I'm gonna share my thoughts as an Italian.
I think Racisms in Italy cannot be compared with Racism in the US. We didn't have slavery, we didn't have segregation. Racism in the US is based purely on Race, on the difference in "white people" and "black people". Those are two different groups that tend to stay separated. Racism is a lot more criminalizes in the US, but also a lot more frequent. There is a much higher percentage of black people, and black people are NOT immigrants. They are US citizens just as much as any other white people. Thus, racism is purely based on race, not on nationality.
In the opposite, until very recent years Italy hasn't even seen any big group of black people living here. It has never been a thing. In Italy, usually, only Italians would live (I'm talking about around till 20 years ago or so). With that, Italians never even had the possibility to be racists, or at least not to a schematic way such as Americans. If a black tourist would have come to Italy, I don't think he would have encountered any racism whatsoever, as Italy was not a racist country per se. With that said, in recent years with the increasing immigration and nationalistic politics such as Salvini, many many Italians became racist towards the "different". Meaning, towards, people from different countries. Among these countries, also some of them with black skin citizens. From that, Italians became increasingly racist against those. Also because it's easier to recognize only by looking at an African immigrant than a Romanian one.
To conclude, Italy's racism is based on immigration and people being "foreigners" and "not Italians", not much based on skin color per se. In the US, racism is not based on citizenship, black people are 100% Americans, racisms is based on race.
You should’ve started the video because you’re kind of just repeating old, moot points. So how would you describe the animosity towards black Italians.... they’re born and raised here, thankfully many have struggled and attained citizenship and yet..... they aren’t seen as such? You’re telling me that is because of what exactly? The video isn’t comparing racism in Italy to America, it’s talking about racism in Italy and there is plenty, don’t be fooled just because it doesn’t manifest its way the same here as in another country and until you guys acknowledge that you’ll always be held back. When the psycho was chasing me in the in the metro, physically threatening me and telling me to go back to my country, simply because I’m black, it felt a lot like racism to me but tell me more about how I’m imagining it and Italians aren’t really racist. As I say in the video, you waste time trying to understand whether or not italians are racist (or xenophobic, does it actually matter the name???) instead of actually fixing the issue and the situation is obviously deteriorating.
@@misstiataylor_ I didn't mean to diminish Racism in Italy or the experience of black people in Italy. I am myself an immigrant in another country and I have experience racisms as being Italian. I agree 100% that Racism is a big issue in the world, and just as much in Italy as a nation. I never said racism doesn't exist in Italy, and I don't think it, I was analyzing how the two kinds of racism are different. I was just considering the causes of Racism and comparing the two instances. With no doubts though that is simply a cause and now the phenomenon is much more structured.
It's also based on the fact that we are black. When you pass by, they look at you badly and start talking to each other abt you
Il razzismo esiste in Italia. Quanti neri vedi a parità o "superiore " merito occupano posti importanti? Salvini non è stato votato da dio nessuno. In America l'ambiente è altro
@@misstiataylor_ All the second generations have the same problem in Italy, not only black Italians. Italians still feel blood is more important than culture (which I strongly desagree with). Still, because the second generations are now starting to be old enough, I really hope that things will change in the next decade...if we survive to this hugly extreme right/neofascist rise.
Thank you for the update of the black experience in Italy. Please be safe out there and definitely do what's in your best interest.
Very good video! I'd like to see it in Italian (or with Italian subtitles) for Italians who still don't speak English well, because more people should be aware of that situation.
p.s.: nice new look, Tia!
I’m not listening to hear what “ I “ want to hear. I’m listening to hear YOUR opinion of YOUR experience.
Thank you so much for this video. I've been subscribed to your channel for a while and I'm so inspired to try moving abroad again. A lot of what you said was true for me too, except I was living in France in my early 20s. I lived in Paris though so it was kind of different but when I went to the country or smaller cities in France people would give funny looks until they realized that I'm American. My Afro French and Muslim French friends had very different experiences but the racism was still present.
Da italiano che ha lavorato come dipendente agricolo nei paesi scandinavi posso dire che alcune cose che dici le ho provate sulla mia pelle.. forse non é neppure una questione di colore, ma di distanza da casa. Ecco perché se un nero italiano parla con l'accento dialetto napoletano, romano ecc ecc non ci poniamo neppure il problema di capire chi é e da dove viene .
Idem io a Londra, non è una cosa da prendere così seriamente, tipo le microagressioni io non le considero tali, succedono ovunque è normale
I completely agree with everything you said, some Italian are so ignorant about Africa period. Once I heard a girl who didn't know that Egypt was in Africa 🤦. They have their vision of how Africa is (poor) they don't realise that it's a huge continent. I'm from Tanzania and I still keep in touch with some parents, it happens that when I talk about them being educated and working in offices, They don't belive me.
Spot on as always, dear Tia. Your presence is a blessing
Excellent and thoughtful analysis. Sounds like Spain except a very light skinned half black/half Spanish person born & raised here would probably be a bit more accepted here than in Italy. But generally here in Spain, the microaggressions, racism in the workplace, incorrect assumptions also take place here.
As a Moroccan and muslim girl who was born and grew up in Italy, I can say racism is a BIG deal. Living there I've experienced racism several times and I'm not even dark skinned (but you can tell I'm Moroccan..), I used to hate it and wish I could look more European and just...be European instead (even though I was born there I was NEVER considered Italian...NEVER.) Now I really dont give a fuck anymore, I am who I am and I wouldn't wanna be anybody else.
I moved to france 2 years ago and things are totally difference here. Racism exists still but..again racism exists everywhere but it really is different...
@Ethan exactly there are many North african people here I feel like home
@Ethan puoi parlare in italiano quindi lol e buona fortuna, spero ti piacerà qui e che ti troverai bene. Nella mia zona ci sono molte persone di origine italiana se può aiutarti lol
@Ethan Ile de France, la regione della capitale. Ti troverai bene spero buona fortuna
i also hate how the Italians suddenly forget the history of antiblackness in Italy with fascism and colonialism
Cause it's not relevant at all
As a white italian I think the biggest problem is the strong traditionalism and small-mindedness of most of my fellow countrymen, who are not exposed to many new things and so are scared of them. I think they see non-white italians as they see carbonara con panna, an existential attack on their little old world. Take note that even white strangers are mostly seen as "barbaric" in some way, just because they don't follow the Most Holy Italian Way of Life (sarcasm).
I've been living in Italy all my life, but both my parents migrated from Ghana... I am an Italian of African descent , but some people believe that '' NON CI SONO NERI ITALIANI'' using the N-WORD.
Historically speaking Italy has always been a melting pot of cultures since the ancient Roman Empire. Black people from Africa ( the Blackamoors) lived in Sardinia, Naples, Sicily and other cities...they are portrayed on some local flag or ornaments.They make money out of them even if they never pay them tribute (Black people contributed to the History of the World but its rarely mentioned by anyone.) What about the current Afro-Italians then ? Imagine the situation 500 or 1000 years from now... but anyways Thanks for your insight, totally agree
Ti riferisci ai Mori?? Che intendi per soldi e tributi?
@@lacasadipavlov Ritraiamo i loro volti su bandiere o vari soprammobili/souvenirs il che è totalmente lecito (poiché fanno parte della storia italiana) Ma stranamente non della STORIA ITALIANA CHE CI VIENE INSEGNATA a scuola O CHE I MEDIA RACCONTANO.
Quindi mi chiedo, perché questi individui non vengono mai menzionati ad esempio, in ambito scolastico? E...Se per qualche strano motivo lo facciamo (chiaramente non in ambito scolastico) si tratta di leggende , o storie poco lineari a mio avviso.
Il che è prevedibile perché "la storia viene dettata dai Vincitori, non dai vinti '' , ma grazie ad internet è sempre più semplice accedere a qualsiasi informazione.
@@lapaceinteriore9148 quello che scrivi è molto interessante, ma potresti essere più preciso?
Quali sono queste persone che non sono menzionate dalla storia ufficiale? Quali gesta hanno compiuto? Poi mi potresti spiegare che intendi per soldi e tributi?
Ti ringrazio, ciao
@@lacasadipavlov E' evidente che faccio ancora fatica ad esprimermi sia in Inglese sia in Italiano quindi mi scuso.Anche se il tema principale del video non erano i Mori, mi sono presa la libertà di condividere una considerazione personale.
A questo punto mi permetto di rigirare a te la domanda : "Chi sono i MORI raffigurati sulla bandiera sarda (ad esempio)"
Ed I mori raffigurati sui souvenirs che i turisti acquistano (ad esempio a Sorrento ) Sicilia e in altre parti del sud Italia?
Chiedo a te, visto che sei sicuramente più italiano di me. Puoi spiegarmi perché la loro immagine viene raffigurata e commercializzata, ma la loro storia non viene raccontata? Puoi gentilmente darmi una mano con delle fonti storiche? Tks
@@lapaceinteriore9148 Non c'è nessun bisogno di scusarti, no problem! Cominciamo col dire che i Mori a cui fai riferimento tu erano in massima parte Arabi e Berberi, quasi mai quindi persone provenienti dall'Africa Sub-sahariana.
Riguardo i famosi quattro mori della bandiera sarda essi non riguardano la storia italiana, bensì quella spagnola! Il Re di Aragona Pietro I, infatti, nel 1096 aveva sconfitto gli Arabi nella battaglia di Alcoraz, che si concluse con l'uccisione di 4 comandanti dell'esercito arabo. Per ricordare questa impresa gli Aragonesi inserirono il simbolo delle 4 teste nel loro stemma. Poichè, poco dopo, gli Aragonesi conquistarono la Sardegna questo simbolo venne applicato anche ai territori dell'isola che, col tempo, lo adottò come suo vessillo ufficiale.
I mori siciliani invece risalgono ad una leggenda di circa 1000 anni fa che narra di un amore finito male tra una bellissima ragazza palermitana ed un giovane nobile arabo, ti invito a cercare qualcosa su internet (è una storia tragica però!)
Infine su Sorrento non so dirti niente, ma se trovo qualcosa te lo faccio sapere.
PS ti invito ad abbandonare questo approccio quasi "complottistico" alla storia, non è proprio il caso
PPS non credo di essere più italiano di te, siamo tutti e due ugualmente italiani, semplicemente con una storia personale differente! ;)
Have you ever had a question but didn't know who to ask it in order to get an answer that satisfied you fully? This video was it❤ Thank you so much, if only you knew what a tremendous help this was for me❤❤
I loooooove ur new hair style.
Hi Tia, thank you very much for your point of view :)! Great video! Despite my channel name I'm from Turin, and you are right....I think the problem of Italy is also the language, a very few people are able to understand and read and listen at "foreing" languages that are not Italian I am also speaking about English unfortunately... And that's BAD because they're not able to open up to the rest of the world to different cultures and to the innovations that comes from those. It's like beeing in a small room all day, the air stinks after a while, italy is that small room :(.... I hope this will change someday, and everyone could understand... but for now is a big problem, also for racism... :(
The reason why children of a non-EU couple have to wait 18 years is because they have to reach the adult age to choose their citizenship...children of a couple with the italian citizenship are italians to all effects... it is the same almost in any EU nation
Absolutely not true, they have to wait because we have backwards laws that dates back to when migration towards Italy was almost inexistent. Now, nobody cares to change it because they play on the skins of human beings for an handful of votes
Thanks for this video Sis! I’m traveling to Italy next week and this has been something that has been on my mind.
Where did you visit in Italy and how was your experience in overall? Would you visit again? I'll be traveling there at the end of Sept to eary October (as an African-American woman) visiting Venice, Florence, Rome and the Amalfi Coast (Positano).
@@priscillastephens3978 Hey! I went to Naples, Ischia, & Rome. I had a beautiful time. You’re going to love it. I didn’t feel any racism but like she said in the video I’m African American and I was there during a port visit by a huge Navy ship so I’m sure everyone was on their best behavior. If you’re interested I did a Italy Vlog on my channel and included everything I did.
@@itsjerae Thanks for the reply...Thos is good to hear and know. And I'll definitely check out your vlog! 🙂
Yeah, this video is very brief but complete as well.
I think you get confused on the part of the legislation difference between an EU child (even a black one) and a non EU child.
12:12 First there is an error, you missinterpreted the law.
The law says that the child of non EU parents can get the italian citizenship not after 18 years but at the 18th birthday if they lived at least 10 years in Italy.
The law blocks only kids that do not have at least one italian parent, if you have at least one (even a foreigner parent that gets the italian citizenship later) the child gets automatically the italian citizenship too by the law of blood (ius sanguinis), so if tomorrow you have a child with your italian boyfriend (facciamo le corna) the kid will have the italian citizenship.
Second the main "opposition" is that the legal distinction between a non EU kid and an EU kid exists pretty much only on paper, they have access almost to all the same rights, i'm talking about school system, any subsidies, public health system, and so on.
There are only few rights that i know a "non EU child" do lack, one is the freedom of traveling in the non EU (like school trips abroad) and the problem of having to navigate in the rusted italian burocracy to have their citizenship recognized (it will take a lot of time and the brocracy could fuck up the request since they do everything on pen and paper and letters).
But i state again that i do agree with all the rest of the video, it's just that little legislation small bit that imho was at least debatable and i know it wasn't a pivotal argument of the video.
I left out the words 'born in italy' by accident but I was specifically talking about those cases because they do prove my point. I don't believe a child should have to renew their permesso di soggiorno (a traumatising incubo) every year and I don't believe the parent should have to give up their citizenship for their child to have the citizenship of a place they grew up their whole life. The legal distinction does not exist only on paper because Italy is bureaucratic nightmare and your life is 100x harder if you don't have EU citizenship-- I say this as a person who doesn't have EU citizenship but still has a very powerful passport, immigration has been a total shit show for me and it boggles my mind that there people have it worse and children have to go through the same bullshit every year... No matter how you spin it, or clarify it, the law is archaic and incompatible with a multi ethic society and the fact that it exists and is applied the way it is DOES say a lot about how italian society views the children of immigrants.
Yes, Italy is a bureaucratic nightmare, but I hope it will get better and join the rest of the world with new technologies, but this has nothing to do with racism in my opinion. Also, to my knowledge, children don't have to renew their permesso di soggiorno, but one of their parents has to (and this is perfectly normal, in my opinion). Also, we agree that it would be unfair for a person to lose its "first" cityzenship, but Italy allows double cityzenship, so that depends on laws from other countries that Italy cannot control. Once again, I agree with everything else you said, but I think that point is debatable and more complex than that (obviously, you are not supposed to analyze each thing you say in every video you make 😆)
The children have to be present when the parents renew the permesso so what is the difference? This year when I was renewing mine, what looked liked a new born baby, was waiting for hours with us in the smelly, dirty immigration room of the questura because her parents had to get a temporary permesso for her and it was quite disturbing to me.
Even if they don’t lose their citizenship it’s not fair or logical. The parent shouldn’t be forced to apply for Italian citizenship because maybe idk, their not Italian, don’t consider themselves Italian and don’t want to go through the hassle of citizenship. I for example have no desire to apply for Italian citizenship. The process is long and expensive and as the Italian passport doesn’t give me anything new in terms of travel rights... makes no sense to do. I lose my mind every year for the permesso, the citizenship process is 10x harder and seems like a total presa in giro. If for some reason I have a kid in Italy with another non-Eu person and we never leave Italy it makes no sense to me why my (at least culturally) Italian child would have to apply for citizenship after 18 years. Thank god they’d have American citizenship anyways but just the idea and principal makes 0 sense to me. The child is culturally Italian and they’re the only one suffering in this scenerio, there’s no way around it. The existence of the law in this way might not be racist but the fact that Italians didn’t change the law when they had a chance and some racist arguments were also used to justify this says a lot about Italian society and that was my point.
I respect your opinion, but I disagree for many other reasons that I don't want to state, I already commented too much for my standards 😆 I prefer to discuss face to face, have a good day 😊
Btw I'm all for changing the law!
Hello Tia,
Thank you for posting such a balanced, well presented video on such an important topic. I know that it is now three years since you posted it...but I have only just seen it because I have just started to investigate the subject of racism in Italy. Almost all of what you say is transferable to other so-called developed Western countries and is still relevant today, and with the chance that some issues have worsened.
I am an older person, retired, who was born in the caribbean but have lived in "developed" Western countries. I have lived as a member of the different "groups" you mentioned throughout my working life and experienced the gamut of racist treatment you outlined, which is why I acknowledge how well thought out and balanced your presentation is.
I am that person fortunate enough to be able to "choose" how and when to step out of my insulating bubble, if I should so choose. I am retired, so no work situation to deal with. I have sufficient finances to live in an area that I choose...within some reason...to use public transport when I choose to, etc.
I now live in Canada, via the UK, but have my eye on moving back to Europe. This is early in my research but your take on racism in Italy has been very informative and helpfull towards my journey. Your video was very engaging to watch! Thank you.