Amen. I need to do a video like this. I have a similar argument with the renewable energy opponents around here - they seem to forget about the upstream and downstream impacts of other forms of energy generation. Our problem is scale, driven by over population.
Right on !....he makes such a good point, and does it in a short period. I would have to right 100 paragraphs just to touch the surface. I think I will also post a vid on a similar subject.
You were asked a very difficult question and answered it very well. I practise bushcraft and live in Cape Breton Canada and as a bushcrafter I feel very strongly about leaving as little trace as possible. As you said no matter what we will always leave a trace and although to most people my sites look as if I was never there, to the trained eye you would know. To believe that bushcrafters or campers are responsible for a major negative impact on the environment is simply ridiculous. You were able to make this point very eloquently in a short period of time ...Bravo !!!
Agreed! I have to applaud you because until you mentioned it, I never even thought about that fact of what it costs the world to bring our different items into the woods.
Totally agree. LNT is something impossible, is just a ideal of reducing your impact. I prefer to leave with a sustainable trace. Greetings from Portugal.
All excellent points raised here. I'm a huge proponent of the low impact uses of Crown land (backcountry hiking, backpacking, canoe-tripping, snowshoe, hot-tenting, etc.) here in Canada and so I like to remind the viewers of my content that leave-no-trace is merely an ideal - an instrumental fiction - which can never be completely actualized, but which one should approximate to varying degrees depending where one finds oneself. For instance, in wilderness areas set aside specifically for the public to hike and camp, one has a responsibility to keep evidence of one's passage to an absolute minimum so others can also experience wilderness which is not heavily impacted by the passage of so many, whereas in an out-of-the-way bit of Crown land, one can responsibly establish a campsite, blaze a trail, etc., but still limit one's impact. Thanks for this video. Cheers, - Martin
I’m doing a degree in philosophy, where I mainly focus on environmental and animal ethics. I often get frustrated by how a lot of people don’t see the big picture and the interconnectedness of things. So thank you so incredibly much for this! You are on point! I am so glad that you, as a well-educated and respected person, communicate this message. I applaud you.
I'm studying in Bergen, Norway at the moment. Plans are to come over to the UK to do biology/zoology in about a year. You British bushcrafters inspire me so much, so I'm excited to see the nature you show in your videos, as it's different from Norwegian nature. Best, Ine
Good points raised Paul, I personally aim to be as harmonious as possible with nature, the use of resources and with the equipment I use... Up-cycling tools and kit and utilising renewable resources... 👍 ATB Antony
+Paul Kirtley cheers Paul, lots of resources out there to be either recycled, up cycled or refurbished. Something witch would directly reduce the negative impacts associated with the production of new equipment, military surplus is an obvious resource... Again all the best and thanks for sharing Paul it's appreciated 👍
Excellent points, Paul. I think there's one other that ought to be made. The point of 'Leave No Trace' is that we should not have a NEGATIVE impact on the environment. One of the tools of forest management for preventing wildfires is the removal of combustible undergrowth. Dead branches up to 18 feet above the forest floor are removed to help prevent fire spreading. Responsible bushcrafters take such things as fuel for their carefully placed and controlled fires. To some small extent, that has a POSITIVE impact, even though to the careful observer following them it leaves a discernible trace by the absence of the combustibles.
Well stated. A very compelling argument that Bushcraft and LNT don't have to be at odds and that our very existence on the planet creates detrimental impacts on the environment. As you stated, it is about balance, respect for the natural world and protection of resources that take long amounts of time to replace.
Bravo Paul!...as a traditional outdoorsman, i have often had this conversation with many of my ultralite through hiker friends. Unfortunately, they remain firm in their criticism of my techniques...oh well...i'm saving this vid to play for a couple environmentalist mates of mine...thanks for your insight...:David
Thanks for your thoughts. I like you raising degrees. Be more LNT in sensitive or areas with many other users and practise the more impactful bushcraft skills in places with fewer people.
Yeah, I feel this point was a bit of a shortcoming in Paul's spiel. It is not just high use areas where I would go easy, at the other end of the spectrum there are wilderness areas that have very little human activity that I would be super careful in also. There is so much already disturbed and modified land in urban wasteland, rural and forestry areas that can be utilised, I just don't see the need to "leave trace" in our most remote, least modified environments.
Great argument for bushcraft! I think it comes down to LNT when in popular areas, in fact places that might be less considered “ the bush”. The AT. The PCT. (where I just was) busy national parks, etc.. those places might not be suitable for some of the bushcrafting activities that occur. But if I’m out in the bush, miles from any popular trails, and I come across signs of bush rafting, I might find it fun and interesting. Im all for people coming out into the wilderness to understand and enjoy the experience. On the other hand, I see some through hikers who look like they are just “city folk” who want to conquer miles more than experience nature.
Ouch, but so true, as always, no truer words have been stated. Thank you for this argumentative view Paul. Not to argue, but to give constructive criticism! Love your ethos!
I try to be as balanced as possible. And I always appreciate constructive criticism, particularly if it makes me think about my fundamental starting points. Warm regards, Paul
Good video Paul and an eye opener for all those who think they don't have an impact on our planet, modern day living is helping to destroy everything that's beautiful and natural about this planet, and it's all done in the name of money and profit, time spent outdoors by knowledgable and responsible persons will have nearly zero impact on there surroundings, nature is there to be enjoyed not destroyed, cheers, atb, Paul.
Excellent point Paul, I totally agree. A true Bushcrafter will understands the importance of preserving nature. That's why Bushcrafters will use only minimal resources when they are in the wilderness, usually resources that are already dead which will rot away eventually or resources that regenerates quickly. So LNT and Bushcraft are not really at odds with each other but only appears so temporarily. The goal of Bushcraft is to live in harmony with nature, to respect and cherish nature. If you examine indigenous people around the world who still uses bushcrafts skills as a daily living, nature is always preserved because their lives depends on it and they have been living like that for thousands of years.
Absolutely nailed it Paul... A fantastic response to his question. I am an avid bushcrafter/wild camper, and believe in using a mix of natural/modern materials....I keep my use of natural materials to a minimum, not only to conserve the area, but to keep the beauty of the surroundings.I use dead wood for fires, and try as much as possible to keep ground damage to a minimum, so if ever someone came across the site I stayed, there will be still something pleasant to see, and not an ugly fire scare. Which brings me to another "Nature" scenario.. A lot of moorland is deliberately set fire to by landowners, etc, to destroy the old heaths and gorse, to enable new growth to come through, not only to keep the moorland looking stunning, but to keep food available for the wildlife... So where is the original authors argument?. ATB,... Simon.
Glad this resonated with you. And you bring up another area - burning of heather on moorlands - which gives rise to some serious questions about perspective. Thanks. Paul
As an afterthought...Bushcraft/LNT/survival.... Bushcraft is using what nature can provide to help thrive in the wilderness... LNT is practicing these arts with a view of not showing any sign of being there... But survival is using some bushcraft skills, but with a view to deliberately leaving indications of your presence, be it using natural materials, or man made materials to indicate your location/ direction of travel, Possibly using living material to leave a signal, preparing a signal fire with dead/living material... So I believe the onus is on the practitioner.. If they use bushcraft as a way to thrive in a particular surrounding, or using living/dead material to signal an emergency, and want to be easily tracked by using certain actions...
To me...the LNT issues is more for when you are camping in the wild or camping on private property (with permission) and you just want to make sure that you leave the place as you found it. Like cleaning up a picnic site in a park by taking your rubbish home or putting it in a bin. In a survival situation LNT wouldn't be an issue...you're just trying to survive. Also...bushcraft is practicing the skills that you would need when you're in the wild and need to make/build something that you require. So with it comes signs of construction of sorts. Be it cut wood, sawdust, holes in the ground, shelters, used firepits, charcoal...etc etc...Well...that's my opinion on it anyway. Great video Paul.ATB...Rob.
+Luca Fossett Really...(scratching head)??? So a bushcraft situation couldn't become a survival situation (by error or circumstance)? And survival couldn't come down to bushcraft capability (knowledge, skills, experience) (or lack of)?
RhodieFreedomCamp Well that's just my interpretation, but of course a bushcraft situation could become survival by circumstance. They share skills but I'm just personally touchy about it because I feel survivalists have had their name ruined by paranoid prepper people.
+Luca Fossett A 1 second web search leads to "survivalist" and "prepper" being one and the same, the only differential being deliberately infused but unnecessary derogatory societal inferences. Again, prepping and Bushcraft have a common underlying paradigm, knowledge and skill theme...survival-ability. Seems you have an issue with and are thus hostile and disparaging regards degree of prepping / survivalism, and are blind to the HIGHLY potential reality that "paranoid" people might just one day turn out not to be so paranoid. They said "never again" to another world war.... hmmm. Society and it's controllers (whatever name you wish to give them) tend to "pop off" or at least vilify those exposing the truth when it's getting too close to the mark....but I'm just one of those crazy people, so ignore and mock me like my "sane" colleagues did when I tried to expose the truth (aka blow the whistle legally). Society labels people as paranoid, insane, crazy etc when in fact the latter are really the sane ones just saying it as it is, but "sane" people either can't handle the truth or don't want the truth coming out, so use destructive labels to confuse, distract, trivialize, dismiss the message and ridicule, neutralize, eliminate the messenger. Give me a "prepper" (aka survivalist") and bushcrafter any day over someone towing the line out of fear or favour.
RhodieFreedomCamp Sorry for coming off as hostile, I just find that TV shows with nutjobs like doomsday peppers have ruined the image of the person who is awake to the world's problems. 'I learn skills to live off the land incase of societal breakdown' has been turned into 'GOSH DARN CHEMTRAILS, GOVERNMENT GONNA PUT ME IN THE FEMA CAMP'
A day in the Bush saves a day on the grid... win win for all I say. Smashing job Paul! I'm sure all LNT zealots live in caves and light their way at night with the warm inner glow they achieve by doing so lol.
That we all have an impact and do some harm (to nature) does not invalidate the effort to prevent more harm being done in certain areas, like in the wilderness. Yes we all have an impact, we all consume in the modern world, we all leave a trace, but that does not invalidate the "leave no trace" principles when it comes to us moving about in nature and what remains of our wilderness. If you look at bushcrafters on youtube, you see more and more of them who does not simply build a simple lean-to-shelter to practice wilderness survival, but they build small "fortresses" and "base camps" which certainly will leave a trace. Of course people differ, and some are more considerate than others. Some use only fallen trees and tear down the structure when they leave. Others chop down trees as they please and leave their camp or "fortress" standing when they leave, unfortunately. So.... since many subscribe to your channel and listen to what you have to say, it would be nice if you would address this issue again. Thanks.
I don't see where the LNT thoughts are false. They just don't paint the whole picture. You need to be aware of LNT thoughts when purchasing and using your equipment as long as possible as well as when you go out to the outdoors. In other words: you need to think global. Paul points this out very clearly in his brilliant statement!
People forget that WE are part of nature, i agree with both the bushcraft culture and LNT to a point but we can't just not use materials that are available to us as does any animal that is part of nature. A rabbit doesn't fill in their burrow when it is done with it, birds leave abandoned nests everywhere etc
The hate for bushcraft is so absurd. Many, many hikers, even experienced ones, lack valuable safety skills and kit (e.g. knife, fire starter, emergency shelter) one can use in an emergency. It puts unnecessary load on the emergency response system. Bushcraft teaches you those skills and tells you to be prepared. Many, many hikers set fires in places they shouldn't and just leave rock rings and fire scars all over the place. They feed the wildlife, leave garbage and dog poo (still in their bags) on the trail, pick berries, and trample off trail. Even knowing it's just "bad apples" from either side, bushcrafters are a much smaller community, so let's not talk about the impact we have. At least any reputable bushcrafter will teach you how to remove trace of your fire and how to sustainably harvest from the land. Hikers readily go out without feeling the need to learn anything, and sometimes they cause trouble or get themselves into it. Nobody gets into bushcraft without needing to learn first. These are essential components of bushcraft, while the hiking/backpacking community struggles to do the same. I'm mostly a backpacker/hiker and I've never seen a bushcrafter out there doing bushcraft things, good or bad. Every bit of negative impact I've ever personally encountered is from a hiker. At the end of the day, we're all playing an active part in polluting industries by acquiring and purchasing gear, gas, packaged food, etc. to go play outside. But at least bushcraft seems to make it a point to learn and to do things right.
I couldn't have put it better myself Paul , these people who bang on about LNT never stop to think where the latest titanium mug or gortex jacket or boots come from or the impact on the environment. serious bushcrafters do everything they can to leave as little impact as possible simple as that and that is all you can ask of anyone who enjoys the outdoors.
+Everyday Adventure You need to spend time with TRUE bushcrafters. And get out of your ill-informed BS bubble. Suggest you read my earlier reply to Paul's video...it applies to the likes of you it seems.
+RhodieFreedomCamp Sorry, I didn't word that as well as I would have liked and deleted it, but you must have been replying as I did so. I'm here because I love this stuff, I'm just playing devil's advocate for a moment because I believe there are a couple shortcomings in what Paul put forward in his otherwise excellent opinion video. I try to explain it better in a couple other comments. I read your comment and I believe that argument would be used by many people just to do what they feel like doing out in the bush, though I'm not saying you or your people would. I just think it is better to consider the issues of both local and global disturbance and not use one to justify the other.
+Paul Kirtley Yes, I deleted my reply to Tony Young, I thought it was unfair to lump Tony with it so wrote my own separate comment, but RhodieFreedomCamp was already replying. Sorry for being a pest!
and footfalls! omg i yell at my friends when they tromps on my garden. u know how much work u need to fluff soil? know how long it takes for nature to do that shit?
Eg, wandering off trail by many metres to answer the calls of nature, then not find ones way back. This, due to a LNT idea. ☆ Noise is a prime form of pollution, yet few tend to keep it in check. ☆♡☆ I am yet to understand the benefit of burning used TP. ☆ Natural is best, the gear heads are a step or two removed from Nature. For me, if one is strong enough to carry it in, he should be able to carry it out. Too many people don't.
I try to strike a balance between the two. Minimal gear and using the resources around me. I leave stuff behind because whoever finds it might find a use for it. Just a comment, but I find that most of the LNT's are all about "the natural experience" without a clue as to what that means. The rest are paranoid about being found out. I'd rather know how to build a fire, build a shelter, and get food without any hi tek shit. If it leaves a scar, so be it... the earth has been around for billions of years and I'm guessin a billion more years.
True - the earth has a strong ability to heal itself from minor marks. I run courses on private land and by some standards this leaves a fair amount of trace (some of this is just volume of activity). But this is surprisingly short-lived. Even the following Spring, after an Autumn course, there is so little evidence of activities, it's quite remarkable. Warm regards, Paul
It is possible to be a proponent of LNT and bushcrafting. I don't believe this should be discussed in an us vs them manner. It simply serves to polarize and dumb down the argument. The answer lies in moderating your activities based on your location. Save the high impact stuff for private property. When on public conservation land tread lightly according to the context. This business of LNTers being hypocrites is a dumb stereotype. I'm quite sure some preachy LNTers understand full well the ecological footprint of their titanium mug, they probably self-flagellate after every use. Most of the "bushcrafters" I see all have much the same gear and it's associated mining/manufacturing/transportation footprint, the only difference is they may also be causing localised damage in the remaining high value conservation areas we have left, and then using this half baked argument to justify their fantasy.
I mean, I agree with 90% of what you said, it's just that idea that the wider ecological footprint of the gear that is used in LNT hiking can be used to justify local disturbance caused by bushcraft really irks me. They are separate issues that both need consideration, not a one or the other type deal. Love your videos, sorry if I've come across as an arsehat.
No you are not coming across as an arsehat. I agree with you that these concepts are not mutually exclusive. I have issues with many "bushcrafters" who are kit focussed for the same footprint reasons you mention but also the fact is, at the heart of bushcraft there is nothing really to do with kit, but more to do with the use of natural resources. This is the sense in which I took the question - a consideration of using natural materials compared with using modern lightweight hiking kit, which in itself is a somewhat polarising question but I think it was this polarisation which the question was trying to address rather than exacerbate. I also see a lot of damage in the name of "bushcraft" but I don't believe this is down to what really is bushcraft but rather people being ignorant or inconsiderate. We have a similar problem in the highlands of Scotland at the moment, with some authorities calling for a ban on "wild camping" bacause some people are heading into Scottish glens (usually by vehicle), camping in cheap tents, leaving them in situ along with bottles, cans, fire scars and other mess. This is not "wild camping" but ignorant idiots. I take a very light approach to any kind of camping and so should everyone else in most circumstances.
+Paul Kirtley Understood, and I've got to say the way you promote bushcraft really being the bit that isn't the kit (that rhymes, I'll let you have that) has really resonated with me. One of my favourite bushcraft channels is "Primitive Technology", a fellow Aussie. Not one custom bushcraft knife in sight, certainly not leave no trace, all done on private property!
Amen. I need to do a video like this. I have a similar argument with the renewable energy opponents around here - they seem to forget about the upstream and downstream impacts of other forms of energy generation. Our problem is scale, driven by over population.
Right on !....he makes such a good point, and does it in a short period. I would have to right 100 paragraphs just to touch the surface. I think I will also post a vid on a similar subject.
Looking forward to your vid +kijika life
Over population to an extent but also over consumption in the first world. Glad we are on the same page :-)
100% with you. Over Population is the real key.
You were asked a very difficult question and answered it very well. I practise bushcraft and live in Cape Breton Canada and as a bushcrafter I feel very strongly about leaving as little trace as possible. As you said no matter what we will always leave a trace and although to most people my sites look as if I was never there, to the trained eye you would know. To believe that bushcrafters or campers are responsible for a major negative impact on the environment is simply ridiculous. You were able to make this point very eloquently in a short period of time ...Bravo !!!
Thank you!
Good question. I think you raised some very good points Paul. Some of which I hadn't really thought about before. Thanks.
Nice one Paul,love it...
Cheers Kim.
Agreed! I have to applaud you because until you mentioned it, I never even thought about that fact of what it costs the world to bring our different items into the woods.
Hi Matthew, it's good to hear from you. Thanks for your comment - I'm glad my video got you thinking about some new perspectives. Cheers, Paul
Totally agree. LNT is something impossible, is just a ideal of reducing your impact. I prefer to leave with a sustainable trace. Greetings from Portugal.
I love it and plan to tell others about your way of thinking it makes perfect sense thank you.
All excellent points raised here. I'm a huge proponent of the low impact uses of Crown land (backcountry hiking, backpacking, canoe-tripping, snowshoe, hot-tenting, etc.) here in Canada and so I like to remind the viewers of my content that leave-no-trace is merely an ideal - an instrumental fiction - which can never be completely actualized, but which one should approximate to varying degrees depending where one finds oneself. For instance, in wilderness areas set aside specifically for the public to hike and camp, one has a responsibility to keep evidence of one's passage to an absolute minimum so others can also experience wilderness which is not heavily impacted by the passage of so many, whereas in an out-of-the-way bit of Crown land, one can responsibly
establish a campsite, blaze a trail, etc., but still limit one's impact.
Thanks for this video.
Cheers,
- Martin
Very well spoken Paul. Everyone should listen to this, not just bush crafters, hikers, and campers. Thank you.
That has to be one of the best answers to this question , totally agree
I’m doing a degree in philosophy, where I mainly focus on environmental and animal ethics. I often get frustrated by how a lot of people don’t see the big picture and the interconnectedness of things. So thank you so incredibly much for this! You are on point! I am so glad that you, as a well-educated and respected person, communicate this message. I applaud you.
Thank you. I really appreciate you having taking the time to make your comment here. Where are you studying? Warm regards, Paul
I'm studying in Bergen, Norway at the moment. Plans are to come over to the UK to do biology/zoology in about a year. You British bushcrafters inspire me so much, so I'm excited to see the nature you show in your videos, as it's different from Norwegian nature. Best, Ine
Fantastic conversation. Lots of food for thought.
Excellent video Paul. You gave a well balanced answer to a subject that a lot of folks don't fully consider.
Great answer!
An excellent answer Paul! Keep up the good work you are doing as your teachings are of great value.
Absolutely great stuff! To see someone thinking deeply about a subject is such a pleasant contrast to the shallow and superficial norm.
Top notch reply Paul. Very common sense thinking. Something that seems a rare quality these days.
Great thoughts on this topic! Nice philosophy. Thank you.
Good points raised Paul, I personally aim to be as harmonious as possible with nature, the use of resources and with the equipment I use... Up-cycling tools and kit and utilising renewable resources... 👍 ATB Antony
Hi Antony. "Harmonious" is a very good word for what we should be aspiring to. Thank you. Warm regards, Paul
+Paul Kirtley cheers Paul, lots of resources out there to be either recycled, up cycled or refurbished. Something witch would directly reduce the negative impacts associated with the production of new equipment, military surplus is an obvious resource... Again all the best and thanks for sharing Paul it's appreciated 👍
Very true Paul thank you for the video.
My pleasure Richard.
Excellent points, Paul. I think there's one other that ought to be made. The point of 'Leave No Trace' is that we should not have a NEGATIVE impact on the environment. One of the tools of forest management for preventing wildfires is the removal of combustible undergrowth. Dead branches up to 18 feet above the forest floor are removed to help prevent fire spreading. Responsible bushcrafters take such things as fuel for their carefully placed and controlled fires. To some small extent, that has a POSITIVE impact, even though to the careful observer following them it leaves a discernible trace by the absence of the combustibles.
Well stated. A very compelling argument that Bushcraft and LNT don't have to be at odds and that our very existence on the planet creates detrimental impacts on the environment. As you stated, it is about balance, respect for the natural world and protection of resources that take long amounts of time to replace.
Indeed. A very succinct summary :-) Warm regards, Paul
Bravo Paul!...as a traditional outdoorsman, i have often had this conversation with many of my ultralite through hiker friends.
Unfortunately, they remain firm in their criticism of my techniques...oh well...i'm saving this vid to play for a couple environmentalist mates of mine...thanks for your insight...:David
So true Paul. Atb.
Totally Paul, wise words.
Great video thans Paul. Gr Cees drom Holland
Great thoughts, as always!
well said
Thanks for your thoughts. I like you raising degrees. Be more LNT in sensitive or areas with many other users and practise the more impactful bushcraft skills in places with fewer people.
Yeah, I feel this point was a bit of a shortcoming in Paul's spiel. It is not just high use areas where I would go easy, at the other end of the spectrum there are wilderness areas that have very little human activity that I would be super careful in also. There is so much already disturbed and modified land in urban wasteland, rural and forestry areas that can be utilised, I just don't see the need to "leave trace" in our most remote, least modified environments.
Great argument for bushcraft! I think it comes down to LNT when in popular areas, in fact places that might be less considered “ the bush”. The AT. The PCT. (where I just was) busy national parks, etc.. those places might not be suitable for some of the bushcrafting activities that occur.
But if I’m out in the bush, miles from any popular trails, and I come across signs of bush rafting, I might find it fun and interesting.
Im all for people coming out into the wilderness to understand and enjoy the experience.
On the other hand, I see some through hikers who look like they are just “city folk” who want to conquer miles more than experience nature.
Well said!!!
Ouch, but so true, as always, no truer words have been stated. Thank you for this argumentative view Paul. Not to argue, but to give constructive criticism! Love your ethos!
I try to be as balanced as possible. And I always appreciate constructive criticism, particularly if it makes me think about my fundamental starting points. Warm regards, Paul
Good video Paul and an eye opener for all those who think they don't have an impact on our planet, modern day living is helping to destroy everything that's beautiful and natural about this planet, and it's all done in the name of money and profit, time spent outdoors by knowledgable and responsible persons will have nearly zero impact on there surroundings, nature is there to be enjoyed not destroyed, cheers, atb, Paul.
Excellent point Paul, I totally agree. A true Bushcrafter will understands the importance of preserving nature. That's why Bushcrafters will use only minimal resources when they are in the wilderness, usually resources that are already dead which will rot away eventually or resources that regenerates quickly. So LNT and Bushcraft are not really at odds with each other but only appears so temporarily. The goal of Bushcraft is to live in harmony with nature, to respect and cherish nature. If you examine indigenous people around the world who still uses bushcrafts skills as a daily living, nature is always preserved because their lives depends on it and they have been living like that for thousands of years.
Absolutely nailed it Paul... A fantastic response to his question. I am an avid bushcrafter/wild camper, and believe in using a mix of natural/modern materials....I keep my use of natural materials to a minimum, not only to conserve the area, but to keep the beauty of the surroundings.I use dead wood for fires, and try as much as possible to keep ground damage to a minimum, so if ever someone came across the site I stayed, there will be still something pleasant to see, and not an ugly fire scare. Which brings me to another "Nature" scenario.. A lot of moorland is deliberately set fire to by landowners, etc, to destroy the old heaths and gorse, to enable new growth to come through, not only to keep the moorland looking stunning, but to keep food available for the wildlife... So where is the original authors argument?. ATB,... Simon.
Glad this resonated with you. And you bring up another area - burning of heather on moorlands - which gives rise to some serious questions about perspective. Thanks. Paul
As an afterthought...Bushcraft/LNT/survival.... Bushcraft is using what nature can provide to help thrive in the wilderness... LNT is practicing these arts with a view of not showing any sign of being there... But survival is using some bushcraft skills, but with a view to deliberately leaving indications of your presence, be it using natural materials, or man made materials to indicate your location/ direction of travel, Possibly using living material to leave a signal, preparing a signal fire with dead/living material... So I believe the onus is on the practitioner.. If they use bushcraft as a way to thrive in a particular surrounding, or using living/dead material to signal an emergency, and want to be easily tracked by using certain actions...
To me...the LNT issues is more for when you are camping in the wild or camping on private property (with permission) and you just want to make sure that you leave the place as you found it. Like cleaning up a picnic site in a park by taking your rubbish home or putting it in a bin. In a survival situation LNT wouldn't be an issue...you're just trying to survive. Also...bushcraft is practicing the skills that you would need when you're in the wild and need to make/build something that you require. So with it comes signs of construction of sorts. Be it cut wood, sawdust, holes in the ground, shelters, used firepits, charcoal...etc etc...Well...that's my opinion on it anyway. Great video Paul.ATB...Rob.
Bushcraft and survival are completely different things, not interchangeable.
+Luca Fossett
Really...(scratching head)??? So a bushcraft situation couldn't become a survival situation (by error or circumstance)? And survival couldn't come down to bushcraft capability (knowledge, skills, experience) (or lack of)?
RhodieFreedomCamp Well that's just my interpretation, but of course a bushcraft situation could become survival by circumstance. They share skills but I'm just personally touchy about it because I feel survivalists have had their name ruined by paranoid prepper people.
+Luca Fossett
A 1 second web search leads to "survivalist" and "prepper" being one and the same, the only differential being deliberately infused but unnecessary derogatory societal inferences.
Again, prepping and Bushcraft have a common underlying paradigm, knowledge and skill theme...survival-ability. Seems you have an issue with and are thus hostile and disparaging regards degree of prepping / survivalism, and are blind to the HIGHLY potential reality that "paranoid" people might just one day turn out not to be so paranoid. They said "never again" to another world war.... hmmm. Society and it's controllers (whatever name you wish to give them) tend to "pop off" or at least vilify those exposing the truth when it's getting too close to the mark....but I'm just one of those crazy people, so ignore and mock me like my "sane" colleagues did when I tried to expose the truth (aka blow the whistle legally). Society labels people as paranoid, insane, crazy etc when in fact the latter are really the sane ones just saying it as it is, but "sane" people either can't handle the truth or don't want the truth coming out, so use destructive labels to confuse, distract, trivialize, dismiss the message and ridicule, neutralize, eliminate the messenger.
Give me a "prepper" (aka survivalist") and bushcrafter any day over someone towing the line out of fear or favour.
RhodieFreedomCamp Sorry for coming off as hostile, I just find that TV shows with nutjobs like doomsday peppers have ruined the image of the person who is awake to the world's problems. 'I learn skills to live off the land incase of societal breakdown' has been turned into 'GOSH DARN CHEMTRAILS, GOVERNMENT GONNA PUT ME IN THE FEMA CAMP'
YES!!
A day in the Bush saves a day on the grid... win win for all I say. Smashing job Paul! I'm sure all LNT zealots live in caves and light their way at night with the warm inner glow they achieve by doing so lol.
That we all have an impact and do some harm (to nature) does not invalidate the effort to prevent more harm being done in certain areas, like in the wilderness. Yes we all have an impact, we all consume in the modern world, we all leave a trace, but that does not invalidate the "leave no trace" principles when it comes to us moving about in nature and what remains of our wilderness. If you look at bushcrafters on youtube, you see more and more of them who does not simply build a simple lean-to-shelter to practice wilderness survival, but they build small "fortresses" and "base camps" which certainly will leave a trace. Of course people differ, and some are more considerate than others. Some use only fallen trees and tear down the structure when they leave. Others chop down trees as they please and leave their camp or "fortress" standing when they leave, unfortunately. So.... since many subscribe to your channel and listen to what you have to say, it would be nice if you would address this issue again. Thanks.
Boom!!! Great job popping the false thought bubble of the Leave No Trace crowd!
I don't see where the LNT thoughts are false. They just don't paint the whole picture. You need to be aware of LNT thoughts when purchasing and using your equipment as long as possible as well as when you go out to the outdoors. In other words: you need to think global. Paul points this out very clearly in his brilliant statement!
People forget that WE are part of nature, i agree with both the bushcraft culture and LNT to a point but we can't just not use materials that are available to us as does any animal that is part of nature. A rabbit doesn't fill in their burrow when it is done with it, birds leave abandoned nests everywhere etc
The hate for bushcraft is so absurd. Many, many hikers, even experienced ones, lack valuable safety skills and kit (e.g. knife, fire starter, emergency shelter) one can use in an emergency. It puts unnecessary load on the emergency response system. Bushcraft teaches you those skills and tells you to be prepared. Many, many hikers set fires in places they shouldn't and just leave rock rings and fire scars all over the place. They feed the wildlife, leave garbage and dog poo (still in their bags) on the trail, pick berries, and trample off trail. Even knowing it's just "bad apples" from either side, bushcrafters are a much smaller community, so let's not talk about the impact we have. At least any reputable bushcrafter will teach you how to remove trace of your fire and how to sustainably harvest from the land. Hikers readily go out without feeling the need to learn anything, and sometimes they cause trouble or get themselves into it. Nobody gets into bushcraft without needing to learn first. These are essential components of bushcraft, while the hiking/backpacking community struggles to do the same.
I'm mostly a backpacker/hiker and I've never seen a bushcrafter out there doing bushcraft things, good or bad. Every bit of negative impact I've ever personally encountered is from a hiker.
At the end of the day, we're all playing an active part in polluting industries by acquiring and purchasing gear, gas, packaged food, etc. to go play outside. But at least bushcraft seems to make it a point to learn and to do things right.
I couldn't have put it better myself Paul , these people who bang on about LNT never stop to think where the latest titanium mug or gortex jacket or boots come from or the impact on the environment. serious bushcrafters do everything they can to leave as little impact as possible simple as that and that is all you can ask of anyone who enjoys the outdoors.
+Everyday Adventure
You need to spend time with TRUE bushcrafters. And get out of your ill-informed BS bubble. Suggest you read my earlier reply to Paul's video...it applies to the likes of you it seems.
+RhodieFreedomCamp Sorry, I didn't word that as well as I would have liked and deleted it, but you must have been replying as I did so. I'm here because I love this stuff, I'm just playing devil's advocate for a moment because I believe there are a couple shortcomings in what Paul put forward in his otherwise excellent opinion video. I try to explain it better in a couple other comments. I read your comment and I believe that argument would be used by many people just to do what they feel like doing out in the bush, though I'm not saying you or your people would. I just think it is better to consider the issues of both local and global disturbance and not use one to justify the other.
Is there a post missing here?
+Paul Kirtley Yes, I deleted my reply to Tony Young, I thought it was unfair to lump Tony with it so wrote my own separate comment, but RhodieFreedomCamp was already replying. Sorry for being a pest!
+Everyday Adventure Noted. Take care.
and footfalls! omg i yell at my friends when they tromps on my garden. u know how much work u need to fluff soil?
know how long it takes for nature to do that shit?
:-)
Eg, wandering off trail by many metres to answer the calls of nature, then not find ones way back. This, due to a LNT idea. ☆ Noise is a prime form of pollution, yet few tend to keep it in check. ☆♡☆ I am yet to understand the benefit of burning used TP. ☆ Natural is best, the gear heads are a step or two removed from Nature.
For me, if one is strong enough to carry it in, he should be able to carry it out. Too many people don't.
I try to strike a balance between the two. Minimal gear and using the resources around me. I leave stuff behind because whoever finds it might find a use for it. Just a comment, but I find that most of the LNT's are all about "the natural experience" without a clue as to what that means. The rest are paranoid about being found out. I'd rather know how to build a fire, build a shelter, and get food without any hi tek shit. If it leaves a scar, so be it... the earth has been around for billions of years and I'm guessin a billion more years.
True - the earth has a strong ability to heal itself from minor marks. I run courses on private land and by some standards this leaves a fair amount of trace (some of this is just volume of activity). But this is surprisingly short-lived. Even the following Spring, after an Autumn course, there is so little evidence of activities, it's quite remarkable. Warm regards, Paul
It is possible to be a proponent of LNT and bushcrafting. I don't believe this should be discussed in an us vs them manner. It simply serves to polarize and dumb down the argument. The answer lies in moderating your activities based on your location. Save the high impact stuff for private property. When on public conservation land tread lightly according to the context. This business of LNTers being hypocrites is a dumb stereotype. I'm quite sure some preachy LNTers understand full well the ecological footprint of their titanium mug, they probably self-flagellate after every use. Most of the "bushcrafters" I see all have much the same gear and it's associated mining/manufacturing/transportation footprint, the only difference is they may also be causing localised damage in the remaining high value conservation areas we have left, and then using this half baked argument to justify their fantasy.
I mean, I agree with 90% of what you said, it's just that idea that the wider ecological footprint of the gear that is used in LNT hiking can be used to justify local disturbance caused by bushcraft really irks me. They are separate issues that both need consideration, not a one or the other type deal. Love your videos, sorry if I've come across as an arsehat.
No you are not coming across as an arsehat. I agree with you that these concepts are not mutually exclusive. I have issues with many "bushcrafters" who are kit focussed for the same footprint reasons you mention but also the fact is, at the heart of bushcraft there is nothing really to do with kit, but more to do with the use of natural resources. This is the sense in which I took the question - a consideration of using natural materials compared with using modern lightweight hiking kit, which in itself is a somewhat polarising question but I think it was this polarisation which the question was trying to address rather than exacerbate. I also see a lot of damage in the name of "bushcraft" but I don't believe this is down to what really is bushcraft but rather people being ignorant or inconsiderate. We have a similar problem in the highlands of Scotland at the moment, with some authorities calling for a ban on "wild camping" bacause some people are heading into Scottish glens (usually by vehicle), camping in cheap tents, leaving them in situ along with bottles, cans, fire scars and other mess. This is not "wild camping" but ignorant idiots. I take a very light approach to any kind of camping and so should everyone else in most circumstances.
+Paul Kirtley Understood, and I've got to say the way you promote bushcraft really being the bit that isn't the kit (that rhymes, I'll let you have that) has really resonated with me. One of my favourite bushcraft channels is "Primitive Technology", a fellow Aussie. Not one custom bushcraft knife in sight, certainly not leave no trace, all done on private property!