Behind Apple’s Split With Goldman Sachs | WSJ Tech News Briefing
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- When Apple and Goldman Sachs teamed up to launch the Apple Card in 2019, it was a big deal for both companies. Apple was becoming a bigger player in the payments space, and Goldman was expanding into consumer lending. According to some, it’s been a troubled marriage. Apple recently sent a proposal to Goldman to exit from the contract.
WSJ reporter AnnaMaria Andriotis joins host Alex Ossola to talk about what the dissolution of the partnership could mean for both companies’ futures, and for Apple Card users.
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Wow it’s almost as if when someone tells you how much you have to pay to have no interest, gives you instant cash back, offers good security, and doesn’t sell your personal data, banks lose. This is more telling about banking practices than this particular agreement. This card has largely been great for the consumer and banks don’t like it.
Let us know if you can find a cc company that does all that, makes a profit, and stays in business longer than a sneeze. You won't, because no business plan can.
@@GotKimchigiven how back then banks used to provide higher monthly savings rate, i wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t do it out of pure interest
@@saverlater123 you know those monthly savings rates are based off the fed right? Fed goes up, bank rates go up, and vice-versa. And no, they aren't making money off of you from that Pure interest rate. On top of that, you are talking a different business models of banks and your deposits, not credit card lending.
If you think ANY credit card lender is gonna have 0% interest, no fees, give cash back, doesn't sell your data and is going to make a profit, you are going to have a bad time. Tell me again, how are they supposed to make money under that model? You might as well sell some Crypto with SBF. 🤣🤣
Exactly. Best card I have ever had. Hopefully the underhanded shenanigans will not start up with the Apple Card once it switches to a new bank or other method for handling payments.
@@GotKimchi Quite a few banks have this type of credit card and they are making a profit. E.g. Citi double cash, Synchrony has one as well and a few others. The problem is that you cannot offer this type of product to every one and you cannot have only this type of product. As a new comer, Goldman made a huge mistake.
Best card I've ever had. 100% geared toward the consumer, full clarity regarding interest ( when, what, where, how ), ease of use, instant cash back, etc. Go figure it's not "working out" for Goldman Sachs.
Sure - great card, great benefits, agree with everything but terrible experience (or no experience) if you're wanting to use it with any budgeting app. Sure Mint did the work for a one off integration, but they're not a thing anymore.
@@wongster3000 "they're not a thing anymore" thats the thing, isn't it.
i disaggre. people praising apple for having clear information, but that's not the main reason it didn't work for the bank. it's because everyone was approved that so many people ended up using the whole line of credit and simply not paying it back. that's where the major loss is for them. banks like responsible users, even if you don't pay any interest, they still win because the merchant pays them about 3% for every purchase you make. it's the people who shouldn't have gotten a credit card approved in the first place (but did thanks to apple) that ruined it.
This was my interpretation as well. It goes against everything they stand for as a company and it just doesn't quite add up.
@@BradLRActually, it was well known that the approvals were far more stringent than most other cards. There were many people denied who would be approved for other cards.
One thing that isn’t mentioned in this piece is that the Apple card is unique in that it explicitly states that it doesn’t sell customers purchasing data.
and you actually believe that??
@@ufinc Yes. The SEC doesn't mess around.
They don’t sell your transaction information to 3rd parties.
Goldman, Apple and Mastercard all still had access and use of the data - so selling trend data etc…
It’s sad to say but it’s still a step in the right direction.
@@ufincwelcome to the U.S., the land of people eager to lawsuit you :) If any organization (private nor public) claims false promise internal/external will try to find out and lawsuit for good money. At least in the U.S., they can't kidnap like in some countries to silence people.
allegedly
I’m not an apple fan. But this credit card is one of the most pro consumer things they ever did.
Apple probably negotiated a contract where they took all the benefits and none of the risks or minimum risks
That Goldman (aka smartest guys in the room) agreed to.
@@brianallen4657lol
Poor Goldman! They don’t deserve that!
@@jesustsa1lol 😂
Kinda like a franchiser
I use my Apple Card all the time, especially when I’m outside the country because there’s no foreign transaction fees. Plus you get the Apple Cash right on your cell phone, so you can use it anytime. It just happens to be the most convenient credit card that I have.
That's why they cancelling. No money being made 😅
most usa cards dont have fx fees
Great convenience comes with great price.
I have the card, but it’s one of the worst you can get. Most cards don’t have foreign transaction fees and give you way more benefits.
@@user-sj5ju4jb7tbut all those cards have annual fee….. AFAIK Apple Card is the only credit card that provides no foreign transaction fees feature without asking for annual fee😢
Goldman Sachs lost money on this deal. No fees, instant rewards, easy payments.
They get money with interest rates
@@chesstynot enough that is needed to keep investors at bay
The GS guy would have been promoted for sure..
There’s two types of lost money. One is “leaving money on the table”. For example, because Apple prohibited GS from selling customer data, GS considered that losing money they should have been making. The other type is operating at a loss-it costs more to sell a product or service than the product or service is bringing in.
I suspect that the first type is the case here wrt the Apple Card. GS was making money, but felt it was forsaking profits that other credit card issuers commonly make.
I love this card. They are so transparent. Easy to use.
If they go to a different bank I hope it’ll allow international rollout of the card, not just limited to the US…
That's a shame. The AppleCard is far better than other cards in almost every possible way. I use it for practically everything. I use the savings account as well. I hope it survives the divorce because i am now very spoiled by the excellent features and security of the AppleCard.
That’s funny because it has some of the worst rewards out of all the cards out there. Using any existing card with Apple Pay is secure enough
@@Tarun-pd3js it’s the only “no foreign transaction fee” card I know that doesn’t charge an annual fee. (Please enlighten me if you know other no fee credit cards). If you travel internationally, it’s a huge plus. Otherwise you need to spend an extra 70-95 dollars on a card simply for that feature.
Capital one quicksilver
@@eri6219 revolut is the bank for travelling, mostly known in eu than us, look up its plan rewards
@@eri6219 I personally have the Chase Amazon card, as well as Bilt which are both no annual fee cards and have zero foreign transaction fees
Its one of the most fascinating cards and has a lot of clever innovations. I hope Apple can find a more suitable partner.
Amex is the only one.
@@rickymesa Yeah but not alot of places accept amex considering high transaction fees. It'd probably be better if the card stayed a MC or Visa considering their customer base.
I hope Amex or Citi
Apple Bank coming 2025
JP Morgan is the ideal choice. Not only did they gobble up First Republic last year, but they can run consumer cards better than Amex can and for more people.
Definitely hope that a better bank can step in and keep this excellent credit card as good as it’s been for the last few years.
I get the idea of staggering billing dates but I particularly love that it’s just so simple the way it works now. The statement comes on the first of next month and is due by the last day of that month. So much easier than remembering random days with other cards.
I love my Apple Card and have had nothing but great experiences with it. That said, this is the first I hear of this, I haven't received any emails from Apple about this, and I have no clue what is happening going forward.
It was a big deal for both Goldman and Apple, but not for the same reasons. It was always going to be a win for Apple, but Goldman was always going to lose money on the deal.
God forbid a "'bank" like Goldman looses money.
Nah fam, Goldman is never okay with losing money.
Forwarded reply from the comment @finroam :
Do you mean, will be interesting who will be the next "victim"? Because clearly anyone that enter that position will guaranteed to lost millions if not billions. It's not really partnership if it's not win-win rather it's a lose-win scenario. Banks are also a business Man.. if they not making any profit then they aren't a bank company but it's just a social charity who will gives away money to every people, definitely not a good business.
Actually I've been thinking if apple keeps doing what their doing now to their partner bank and the next bank that will take over their position, wouldn't it just gonna damage their brand image. Well only time will tell. I hope that no any bank company will take over, so that they're not gonna end up in the same position like with Goldman Sachs... well not until they change they're terms and conditions (policies) to the partner bank beforehand 🤔😡🙄
I like the card. Rewards are not the best and you can definitely get more benefits from other cards if you look around. But the simplicity and straight up clarity of my account makes it a must have for me.
it's a good product/service. especially the function that allows users to change card number whenever they want
I was in EU, South America, Central America, multiple countries, no Foreign fees and 2% on purchases , that’s un heard. Don’t even need to use anything else
I mainly got the card to start the Goldman Sachs Apple High Yield savings account. I so far have moved almost 80% of my money into that savings account because my main bank does not give me anything back in comparison for keeping my money in savings. I hope that this high yield savings account doesn't go anywhere because it's a great way to combat inflation to some extent.
Apple card was much more appeal when they allow to use Apple installment plan for iPhone purchases
I'm not sure if you're saying that they no longer do, but this is still an option. What they changed, however, is that in order to get the installment plan you have to have one of the big three (US) as your carrier. I didn't like that at all. I use AT&T, so I'm fine; however, my mother does not use one of the big three. She still got the 3% back, though. I like that about the Apple card.
@@sherlockholmes6990 you’re right. Unlocked version
Yep. This literally caused me to not upgrade my 14 Pro Max this year. Huge mistake for Apple. I'm on a sub-contractor (Spectrum) of Verizon. Which makes it EXTRA silly.
@@sherlockholmes6990hey you can still do this without using one of the big 3. i just got the 15 pro max a couple days ago and all you have to do is contact the apple card team to move the purchase into installments. 0% interest and a 24 month term, just how it used to be. hope this helps!
❤️ especially the cash back
Thanks for the news.
About the current bank situation, I'm really concerned. I am worried about a lot more if a bank the size of SVB may fail. I have a friend who manages a fast-growing startup and was severely impacted by the bank run. I have taken more than $840k out of my bank. Since the FDIC only provides coverage up to $250K, an implosion could have negative consequences. presently want to invest in the stock market. Does anyone have any ideas on how I might proceed?
We fail to realize that banks are commercial enterprises that are driven by greed as well. The over-leveraging of assets by banks starting in 2020 was one of the factors that led to SVB's collapse. I've never felt secure keeping a large sum of money in a bank. In other words, I invest through my financial advisor, reap the benefits, and then spend the money.
I agree, having a financial advisor for investing is genius! Amidst the financial crisis in 2008, I was really having investing nightmare prior touching base with an advisor. In a nutshell, i've accrued over $850k with the help of my advisor from an initial $120k investment.
@@ThomasChai05Would you mind telling me how to contact this specific coach using their service? You seem to have the solution, as opposed to the rest of us.
CAMILLE ALICIA GARCIA maintains an online presence. Just make a simple search for her name online.
Thanks for the advice. The search for your coach was simple. I investigated her well before using her services. Considering her résumé, she appears competent.
it's very simple: goldman is not making as much money and as fast as they expected, so now, they want out
Well done as always.
Excellent interview 👍
Will be interesting to see what happens. Heard about the nightmares dealing with Goldman and glad I passed on getting this card. Maybe the next bank will be better? I won’t hold my breath.
Goes to show how Goldman believes about their customers, once Goldman always Goldman
If and when apple changes servicers will I need to stop all my subscriptions and restart them? what a pain. All subscription purchases by default go on my Apple Card as do any financing agreements for large apple purchases. what will happen to those customers on multi-year financing agreements, will there agreements easily transfer over to whatever new servicer they choose? Will we all get new cards or keep the same physical ones?
people praising apple for having clear information, but that's not the main reason it didn't work for the bank. it's because everyone was approved that so many people ended up using the whole line of credit and simply not paying it back. that's where the major loss is for them. banks like responsible users, even if you don't pay any interest, they still win because the merchant pays them about 3% for every purchase you make. it's the people who shouldn't have gotten a credit card approved in the first place (but did thanks to apple) that ruined it.
This should be the top comment. It’s the sad truth. Apple wanted GS to approve subprime customers because they felt it wouldn’t be good for their brand if people were denied. Very short-sighted. Otherwise, maybe GS would have stayed in consumer banking.
But this isn’t actually true.
I love the Apple Card though.
Yeah, me too. But I think that’s the problem, from the bank’s point of view. If we love it much, how happy can the credit issuer be?
the editing of this conversation is really weird, its like they aren't actually talking
I love the card. Transparent, easy to use, I love the apple cash feature. Best card I have.
Apple is going to end up buying a bank, rebranding it and doing it themselves.
And it shall be called the iBank.
I LOVE this card and hope The features don’t change with the next lender. I love that the due date is always the same, Easy and transparent fees i LOVE the reporting… how much i spent this month compared to last month etc… It helps me budget! I have Cards from Chase, American Express, Citi etc. and none have the great reporting the apple card does.
I love this card and the savings I am building by using it. I hope that doesn’t change
It is so nice to have a monthly statement and I never really appreciated how nice that was until the thought of it going away
Apple Card is nice until you dispute charges. I’ve been re-disputing a charge for a service I didn’t receive and it gets put into an endless loop of: dispute with an agent, submit evidence, wait, get denied even after the merchant confirms I didn’t receive the service, talk to a supervisor, resubmit, re-deny, talk to manager, resubmit, re-deny, etc etc
I’ve had two since I got the card at launch. Both resolved within a month or so. No resubmitting.
So when did the actual split occur? Or did it? I am still seeing GS on the Apple Card.
Best card i’ve ever had. Extremely easy for the user
But what happens with a savings account? Will i have the chance to take my money out or will it just transfer to a new bank??
We need ‘Apple Bank’
I would be interested to see the cards popularity compared to other store credit cards
Probably Stupid Question. Would it be possible for Apple Inc to create their own Financial Institution subsidy? To act as the "Bank". What would the potential regulatory hurdles be to this approach of taking the credit card in-house?
The Apple Card is exceptionally average. Very simple to use in a very Apple way. I definitely recommend it if you like Apple Pay, especially on an Apple Watch.
My favorite card. I agree that should be more give on Apple's part like the billing date. Either make it easier on Goldman or Apple should help with the billing questions. Which is what i though they did already.
Another credit card servicer is not going to be a problem. Amex, Citi or Chase level companies could absorb all the business.
wait so what’s gonna happen to my apple card? does that mean it’ll be declined or what’s changing for the customers who actually use the credit card?
If that had released in Brazil through a Fintech with the insane interest rates allowed here, it would simply be a money printing machine both to apple and to the partner bank
I wish more credit cards were as transparent as Apple’s. There’s a fixed amount to pay in order to not pay monthly interest charges. Very clean and friendly UI. This is what the people want.
Apple is meant to be a global player, but so many of its services are not available globally. Never used the card, but would have if it was available in Africa.
I think you need to re-educate yourself on what Africa really is.
@@TettyBoyFloyd Stay ignorant, I love that for you.
I think your perspective is colonialist. Africa has been through a lot, but has a lot to offer. Major companies operate in Africa and benefit from it's resources. @@isaacbello127
Not at all. I write this message on my MacBook Pro.@@TettyBoyFloyd
Not everyone in Africa is poor although compared to other continents its poorer on average, they even do the American style of separating the rich from the poor.
Keep up boy
Need the card here in South Africa man.
So what is gonna happen now to the Apple credit card?
it'll be useless by next year
So do I make my payment or not?
I guess this means we'll never see the Apple Card outside of the U.S. in other countries like Canada. I would have cut up my other cards to get this one if it was made available.
Goldman is going to regret this decision
There is something wrong with the audio from Annamaria. It's hard to make out what she's saying.
So they not closing the card that what I was worried bout lol
Makes me wanna get a apple cc
Apple has a $3 Trillion valuation. They could easily start their own financial division
Love the choppy audio with no subtitles
Got this card right after it came out and use it exclusively! Phone notifications, phone pay, no numbers visible, changing security code, sturdy, 1% cash back, 3% cash back on Apple purchases, now with accompanying savings account at 4.4%, Apple Cash - BEST CARD I EVER HAD. Interest is within community standards but I always pay it off every month - so not an issue. Plus, I can review yearly total purchases from any source, handy for keeping track of spending, via the wallet.
4.4? You mean 4.15?
It’s hilarious how trading and bartering evolved into money. We now let others manipulate our money and agree to interest rates. It’s insane and interesting at the same time how we agree on value of money as well.
They should just partner up with AMEX. Even though AMEX isn’t accepted everywhere it would mean people won’t be spending money they can’t pay back like crazy.
It’s great but i have another card on default now because of shakyness
there was so much potential in this but nothing happened on the techside after it launched, not the financial planning but with tons of functionality that I expected, just another creditcard, perhaps with a little bit better realtime update and transparency on interest charges. The customer service sucked because you got bounced between apple and goldman. apple needs to start working on innovation again.
In my experience customer service was absolutely phenomenal and fast. Transparency was top notch. Super easy to do everything through the wallet app. I’d recommend it to anyone
Because Banks cannot operate when they are for the consumer. They will always fail because of how banks work.
Wasn't this one of Jobs career-long wishes? An Apple CC with these features? Sorta like a line-item from Steve Jobs will.
Holy vocal fry, Batman!
why doesn't apple just front the capital, they would be the best rating agency with the data they have
Love my Apple Card!
What about collaboration with Chase? It’s should be powerful
No fees?!?! Hahahahahahah, they're getting their fees with the sky high interest rates.
You guys present this news like it's office gossip.
Short, succinct, to the point.
Probably the best for both parties - not lucrative for Goldman and Apple was always the "winner" in this partnership. Will be interesting who will be the new partner!
Did a video on this topic just now, feel free to check it out if you're keen!
Do you mean, will be interesting who will be the next "victim"? Because clearly anyone that enter that position will guaranteed to lost millions if not billions. It's not really partnership if it's not win-win rather it's a lose-win scenario. Banks are also a business Man.. if they not making any profit then they aren't a bank company but it's just a social charity who will gives away money to every people, definitely not a good business.
Actually I've been thinking if apple keeps doing what their doing now to their partner bank and the next bank that will take over their position, wouldn't it just gonna damage their brand image. Well only time will tell. I hope that no any bank company will take over, so that they're not gonna end up in the same position like with Goldman Sachs... well not until they change they're terms and conditions (policies) to the partner bank beforehand 🤔😡🙄
Why doesn’t Apple just become its own bank or lender
Why does the conversation between the two individuals sound AI?
Doesn't it seem likely that, if Apple gave Goldman notice, that they already have another partner lined up? The lack of foreign transaction fees, plus the 3% cashback in certain circumstances, are why we have an Apple card. All other payments go on our Amex.
Same here. My Apple Card is also the backup for when a merchant doesn’t accept Amex.
So what does this mean for us to consumers? You guys failed to mention that.
Kind of glad to see Apple use GS, the way GS screwed consumers in the housing crisis! Always a reason to ❤ Apple!
Hey, it's Apple. Think different.
So, is my Apple Card still good to use moving forward?
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just did it all themselves. They have money it’s just a matter of getting that type operation underway I’m sure.
Well, now I may actually be able to apply for the card and get approved! 😃😒
I don’t necessarily get the first reason. I mean approve people for as little as $400 rather than $2500 or $5000. As for the on time statements…mortgage statements come out on the same time for everyone, not sure what the big deal is.
I like apple setup for card, keeps credit in check . it make sure you pay off your whole bill. I pay my Apple Card bill off every month .
Doesn’t look like a good deal for any bank
I ❤ the look of the actual card and I love 💗 using it more than my AmEx….. that AmEx that I hand over $250 a year for just membership 👀. Probably cancel that nonsense.
Glad to see it happen. GS was never very helpful when I had issues/questions on purchases.
I have a question for everyone with the Apple Card, say they partner with Amex but with a $95 annual fee are you keeping the card?
Not a chance.
The only bad thing about the apple card is you can't tap the card to pay.
To encourage you to use your phone instead.
Well, it would require an NFC chip which means there would be a thin layer of plastic on the back of the card (like Amex) to house the chip and it would therefore not be 100% titanium. Additionally, the NFC chip is an added security risk for attackers to copy the card info. Finally, the lack of NFC and the 2% cash back for Apple Pay encourages the usage of Apple Pay, which is extremely secure and is what Apple ultimately wants. I'd argue the Apple Card, physical and digital, is the most secure card that exists for a number of reasons. (I'm a security engineer, that's why I geek out about security)
Doesn’t have nfc in 2023 they really want you to use your phone , i doubt that apple card is the most secure, unless thieves are going to carry around a pos device you are safe also you can’t copy a bank nfc unless someone been lying all this time.
@@keenanvandeusenshould you always lock your credit cards when not using them for added security?
The card itself was made of aluminum.. swanky
Titanium
@@RAGordy I hate it for it being so thick. I never carry mine but just use the watch.
@@maestrovso ikr. The entire implementation is truly Apple. They make a card out of virtually indestructible titanium and then say “hey, you never need to use it though“.
Mine is still in the swanky cardboard box it came in.
Titanium
Would be great to see this in europe. But unless people start dropping the cash mindset…
I moved almost all of my savings to Capital One until I know what happens with this.
Apple has so much money they could be the bank themselves
Anyone remember when that dude went on that HUGE Twitter rant accusing the Apple Card of being sexist because he received a higher limit than his wife?
the fact is goldman benefit little from it, and apple has more leverage. It is easy for apple to find other bank to partner with
Won’t other banks have the same problem?
@@epbrown01 The thing is that Goldman Sachs isn’t necessarily “losing” money as much as not earning enough for them. There are plenty of other banks that are very much willing to take priority on the amount of credit card holders first
That’s sounds very interesting. The people over at apple are very cunning to say the least and always play the long game. Having to put customer service through the wringer like that sounded premeditated.
A lot of “i heard”
I hope Apple goes with Morgan Stanley / E*Trade Bank for their new banking institution. Seems like there’s better synchrony there. But Apple definitely needs to allow the banking side to do rolling payments. I actually hate having my Apple Card due on the 1st of each month. I’’d rather pick my own statement date or have one randomly assigned.
I also don't care about the timing of my statements. I'm not certain why it was such a big deal for Apple to have statements on the 1st. I can only see it as being a very, very minor convenience for someone.
Unless they are dumber than Goldman Sachs, they wouldn't partner up with Apple with the contract that's same or similar to what Apple had with GS.
Ok you get randomly assigned the 1st
Does the date really matter? I mean your payment will always be a month apart regardless of the date
For Apple to send the letter to Goldman Sachs, they must have already has someone in mind.
Love this card. Don't mees it up!