Senior Chief? First time I heard you say that. Thank you for your service fellow sailor! There are lots of folks doing refining videos. Yours are the absolute best.
This may be simple but it's a high pucker-factor method. I have to agree with you on just putting up with the nitric acid. I once worked at a refinery in SE New Mexico where we had a 3kgal tank of concentrated sulfuric acid that ruptured into it's catch tank (thank God). it dissolved everything that was in it except for the PVC pipes and the HDPE liners on all the pumps. We prayed hard that it didn't rain until we got it all cleared out. luckily we were in the middle of the desert. :D
Darn he's McGyvering pure silver after a visit to the hardware store, that's nuts. My wife's grandfather was a senior chief. He served 31+ years and 3 wars. So do enjoy your videos.👍
Gonna try this out, can't buy nitric acid in Canada as a laymen tradesman such as myself, so before moving in that direction, this looks great for a nice tradeschool try! You are excellent at the videos, Sreetips, & I truly wish you all the best in your endeavors!
@sreetips well, no such luck so far, tried twice and had a colloidal mess each time after adding the hydrochloric acid, first time it was jet black, this time is brown, everything looked like yours until I added the water after the HCL, but it stayed brown and very saturated, no idea why, c'est la vie, I need to move I guess hahaha
Ahh senior chief. I’ve been binging your channel for the last few weeks wondering what branch you are from. Thank you for your service. This channel is so interesting. I’m always learning something new.
Another great video thank you! The folks are right about work hardening. Heat that stuff up and it cuts and rolls better. Also does your roller mill not go both directions? I’ve used them in the past that you could roll One Direction until it almost came out and then reverse it and roll it the other. Shire saves time and effort! I love your channel!
Great video , I rewatched because my wife is doing a silver jewellery course and i'm getting her some pure silver bar from scraps and old coins to work with... They have a press to flatten it. I was able to get 4L of nitric acid delivered to my home which surprised me considering it used to be restricted. So I used that. But I agree there is nothing more dangerous to organics than conc. sulphuric and you can buy that at the hardware !!
😮😮 your a senior chief! That's wild, I watch all your videos and I've seen your ships ball cap a few times but I would have never guessed you were a senior chief. That is crazy, I think your the only E7 and above that dosent just say "I'm a chief/senior chief/master chief" as a greeting to people every single day and also every time they interact with anybody else when starting a conversation. I've been in for 9 years so far myself, but trying to make it to 20.
That brown color forming when adding hydrochloric acid to drop silver chloride could actually be anhydrous cupric chloride, since it was in an environment with concentrated sulfuric acid it can't be in its dihydrate form. When adding water to the solution, the brown anhydrous CuCl2 dissolved back into a blue solution.
@sreetips brown color: when you are putting HCl into the solution of silver sulfate in H2SO4, copper(II)chloride also form. And because it is nearly anhydrous solution, it has brown colour (anhydrous CuCl2 is brownish). When you add water to it, copper chloride rehydrate and everything have the colour as we are used to :)
Silver and copper work harden. Periodically heating to a red heat then quenching in cool water will significantly reduce the amount of time at the rollers and allow you to close the roller gap quite a bit more between passes. A simple pad of pumice and a MAPP torch is all you need for an annealing station.
I suppose, the brown compound which is formed when the the silver is precipitated, is anhydrous CuCl2, which is insoluable in H2SO4. When water is added, it changes to the blue/green we are used to for copper aqua complexes.
Thanks for that hint, I was wondering myself "what the heck?" Although my thinking leaned toward some poly-sulphuric salts or something like that - but on a second thought that wouldn't make much sense. Anhydrous CuCl2 seems to be fitting explanation for observed phenomena. EDIT - I just made some quick"back of the envelope (and a calulator)" calculations - just some numbers related to this particular experiment: - total amount of sterling silver: 118.3 g; - of which 90% is Ag, thus 106.5 g, and 10% is Cu, thus 11.8 g. Dividing it by molar mas of those metals we arrive at 0.99 mol (M) of Ag and 0.19 M Cu. Approx. 500 ml of 93% H2SO4 equals 465 ml of 100% H2SO4, whose density is 1.83 g/cm3, thus approx. 850 g,or 8.68 M of H2SO4 was used here. The acid works both as oxidiser and solvent, and the reaction apparently goes as folows: Cu + 2 H2SO4 -> SO2 + 2 H2O + CuSO4, and 2 Ag + 2 H2SO4 -> SO2 + 2 H2O + Ag2SO4 In other words 0.38 M of H2SO4 to dissolve Cu and 0.99 M to dissolve Ag. That leaves us with 7.31 M (716 g/ ~360 ml) of H2SO4 unreacted, further diluted by approx 25 ml of water created during the reaction(s). Means, still "quite concentrated" H2SO4, capable of removing water from CuCl2. Then of course is water from added HCl, although not very much - and then again, precipitating AgCl "returns" some H2SO4, so...
Thank you for making videos, I am finding all of this super interesting. One thing tho, Please don't pull back your glove to look at your watch with the other gloved hand. If you had acid on that glove for any reason, you would be transferring it to the inside of your other glove and almost definitely causing acid to contact your skin. A small risk, but when you are basically making how-to videos, these practices have to be above board.
Sreetips - stop being so critical of the guy making these videos, he's working hard! Oh wait, that you!! :) Also, I think those last few steps are almost exactly the way I make my morning latte - at least the solutions look the same. Seriously though, really nice video - great work! I can definitely see why you prefer working with nitric acid!
Next time you try this, run the short pieces through the roller sideways first, they will stretch out sideways. Run them til they are the right width to go thru the rollers, then switch them 90* and run them til thin enough. 24:00 You said, "As the solution cools ..." silver sulphate precipitates. Is the enhanced danger from handling hot acid the reason you let the solutions cool prior to filtration? Also, won't the filter trap silver in the crystals that it stops?
Brown color to my knowledge is/was a combo of the gray/white color of silver chloride and the blue color of copper nitrate and the green color of copper chloride. Hope that sheds some insight, I tried a similar reaction a little while ago.
The darker color of the silver chloride may be due to the dark green color of copper in solution when you add HCl. Copper solutions are normally blue, but when a high amount of chloride is present it turns bright green. Could have something to do with that. Could also maybe have something to do with some of the sulfuric acid decomposing into some kind of source of SO3? That would form a dark red precipitate known as chevreuls salt. I can’t be sure that happens in the solution but either way it’s obviously just something to do with the copper forming some kind of complex in solution that’s staining the silver chloride. It’s broken up once water is added
A mask isn't going to do anything to mitigate perspective damage from those vapors. He uses a fume hood which is necessary when conducting these reactions. The fumes are vented out of the contained box.
If you added a nitrate salt to the warm sulfuric….. wouldn’t that make nitric in-situ then use saltwater or hcl to drop as chloride? Wouldn’t that work much faster then sulfuric alone?
New chemist here. I don't have a ton of experience, but I believe the brown solid you saw when you added the hydrochloric acid was some kind of copper(I) salt. Copper has two forms in solution: copper(I) and copper(II). Copper(II) is what you're familiar with. Copper(I) can show up in very acidic environments, so that's why it went away when you added water! If you repeat this, I would also not recommend adding HCl to sulfuric acid! HCl is mostly water, so it carries the same splattering risk as adding water to the sulfuric acid. It would be safer to add the sulfuric acid/silver sulfate/copper sulfate mixture to water, slowly, and then add the HCl (a saturated NaCl solution would probably work too).
What would happen if you passed a current through the silver? You know, electrolysis destroys copper pretty quickly, even with a 9v battery. Would it, perchance, do the same there?
@@sreetips Make sense to me. Somebody gave me a solid ball of half-dissolved filter papers that have gold fingers inside. I am figuring out how to remove the paper to get to the fingers with acid. My options are burning the paper or dissolving it.
In this video you use rooto drain cleaner 93% nitric acid, but then you said don’t add water to the sulphuric acid. I’m confused which is it. I’m following this method for refining some Wm Rogers flatware that is silver plated, but I believe the base metal is Nickel Silver. My experiment turned to cemented sludge in the straight Rooto no water. Not sure what do next, so I got some of the sludge out into a beaker and added tap water and it turned a dark blue then I let it sit and it formed crystal in the bottom that was rock hard. What was this? I’m not sure. It’s my first time. Thanks
Watching 3+ weeks after this was uploaded, and silver has seemingly started to make that climb! There's quite a significant ways to go of course to reach the 20-1 ratio stated... but at $28 oz at the end of August, Up from ~$16 beginning of July? That's a nice start!
@@sreetips I've casually stacked silver, and to a lesser extent gold, as finances have allowed. I'd be happy with my returns on less than half of those numbers!
Mark, I don’t know. But if you go back to the early sixties President Johnson stated that, “we have sufficient reserves of silver to” dump on the market to curb any price rise that hoarders might expect by hoarding pre-1965 US minted silver coins. But it didn’t work. Today a 1964 90% silver quarter will buy two gallons of gasoline. Those coins have held their value. It’s was very bizarre. Johnson’s remarks are a matter of public record. The gold and silver markets are very thin. Not very many shares (ounces) to go around. So it’s susceptible to manipulation. But this very fact, thinly traded market, could cause panic buying. Especially if investors experience a “Wiley Coyote” moment when they suddenly realize that there’s nothing under their lofty paper valuations except air. With things being the way they are, which is more likely; paper markets getting more valuable, or metals continuing to surge relative to the dollar? Sorry for the sermon.
One thing, unlike the conc sulphuric, muriatic acid is an aqueous solution of hydrogen chloride gas, mainly just water, so when you poured that in the sulphuric you released a lot of heat and some of the HCl gas broke down and released chlorine. and got really hot. you should have poured the mixture slowly into a little water first and then added the HCl.
Why not fill the the baking dish with ice and keep the heat lower to prevent the buildup and boil over? (Not a chemist, really just want to know if that was an option)
For GSR to adjust to 1;20, it is not necessary for Silver to go up. It is sufficient for gold to drop back. Its not always that Gold and Silver maintain 1;20 ratio. Each have their own life to take care of. Each has different supply demand metrics. To say GSR to be 1;20 is like defining a ratio of Google to GM or FB to Chevron.
Hi there, i have mineral ore that is shiny but im not sure weither it is silver or white gold. Would it be possible to follow your exact tips to determine what it is? Thanks
Kev ive seen other refiners use household ammonia between rinses with gold . It cleans up the gold bit better. Whats you say on that .i havent used it yet myself
I was trained by Harold_V on the goldrefiningforum.com and his motto was; the three most important things about preparing the metal for the acids are, incineration, incineration and incineration. It hasn’t failed me yet.
Might I suggest that you when you're rolling the metal it "work hardens" from the thinning process! It needs to be annealed and then continue the process! Also, when your filming, only have one project going at a time! Your gold project had your exhaust fan roar through your voice the whole time. OMG! You broke a cardinal rule! Even you said! Don't ever mix water into acid! You should have poured your acid solution into a beaker with water not the other way around! BTW - thanks! I really enjoyed watching this!
So those forks are SOLID silver alloy and not just PLATED? I've never run across solid silver flatware, just plated. I'm guessing the yield on plated would be too low to bother with this method?
I have a hoard of silverplated items and im hoping to find a way to process lots of it fairly quickly and inexpensivly. Do you have any recommendations?
Sreetips, What is the actual temperature of the Acid while dissolving? Since the boiling point of H2SO4 is relatively high, and the dissolving would progress as the temp is raised, wouldnt the dissolving of the sterling silver move along much faster at about 280 F?
@@sreetips , well sorry but that still does not explain the actual temperature that your hot plate was able to raise the temperature of the H2SO4 solution too. However, and with that being said after asking that question of you I decided to find out myself and share that with your viewers...I added 200ml of concentrated 93% H2SO4 to a beaker, I then added about 12 grams of Ag powder and a stir bar. I also placed a watch glass and then began incrementally raising the Temperature. Using a very good thermocouple I found that the optimum temperature to quickly dissolve Ag in concentrated 93% sulphuric acid in 2 hours elapsed time was 375 degrees F. while being moderatly stirred by a magnet stir bar. So, there you and your viewers go.
Mr Sreetips, did you consider heating the silver to a heat below melting point ? Certainly this should facilitate easier rolling as it does with steel. But I have not checked the physical properties of Silver in this regard yet
Do you have to use more sulfuric acid if you want to dissolve for example 500 g of scrap silver? Is there a way to calculate how much acid relative to silver?
Out of all your experiments. Which method have you found to be the most cost effective, quicker regardless of cost. And even both cheaper and quicker for silver refining? Thank you great video.
I'm not sreetips, and I've refined very little silver but in my opinion the fastest and cheapest way would be dissolving in nitric acid, precipitating with sodium chloride and turning into silver with lye and sugar, and then melting. The electrolytic silver cell may be cheaper, and gives a more pure product, but it's slower. The sulphuric acid method can be cheaper depending on the price of the acid, but it seems slower, more dangerous and you might not get all of the silver. If you don't want supper pure silver simply dissolving in nitric acid and then cementing with copper metal and finally melting can be good enough. I hope I helped somehow. Edit: you can heat up the silver chloride directly, and it will decompose into silver metal and chlorine gas. This will be faster and cheaper than the lye and sugar route, but you will have to deal with the chlorine, as it's toxic and corrosive to metals. Same thing with the oxide. When you add lye to silver chloride it makes silver oxide, and the the sugar reduces it to the metal. You can stop at the oxide and melt it, but the oxygen produced will dissolve in the molten silver and will make the surface of the silver ugly when solidifying. In the end I recommend turning into metal powder to avoid problems.
Hello Chief I wanted to ask you if you know why when I recently did my second batch precipitating silver the silver came out of solution on its own. I believe it was due to the type of silver plated scrap I was using. The silver plating was over the top of some 1/4" copper. When I decided that the silver had precipitated I stopped adding the nitric acid and allowed it to sit overnight to burn any remaining acid up and settle for siphoning. The next morning I basically found the step to pull the silver out of solution was already completed due to the copper base metal being left in the beaker overnight. I left it in there to try and harvest the maximum yield of silver instead of extracting it which I feel would have prevented the silver solidifying prematurely, do you feel my deduction into the matter to be correct or do you have something different as suspect? One more thing,my silver has been fine and siltlike in nature unlike the granular texture you harvest. Could it be from using the nitric without being diluted as much trying to expedite the reaction time? I appreciate the time and knowledge you have shared with the public , your style is very comprehendible and easy to follow and would like to say thanks...
Reactivity series of metals. After dissolving the silver will cement right back out on the base metals as silver powder. Excess nitric will redissolve the silver and cement out on the bare metals until the base metals are gone. This firms a very fine silver powder
Instead of adding the HCL acid to the sulphuric/Ag2S04 solution, has anyone tried making up the correct volume of near-saturated NaCl/water in a large beaker/flask, then *slowly* and initially dropwise, adding with stirring, the H2S04/Ag2SO4 solution. I know people have successfully added NaCl solution to the H2S04/Ag2SO4 but that seems more risky heat/splashes wise. It's something I may try because the nitric route is out for me due to reagent unavailability
@@sreetips Thx for your reply. I can see you don't use salt. I suggested it to avoid expense & slight additional risk of muriatic acid, compared to salt solution. I know nothing in all this actually burns, flame-wise. There are some situations where conc. H2SO4 can overheat to spattering level when mixed with certain other reagents. I was a lab tech for 5 years, a long time ago
Awesome cant wait to see the yield... it's a tease though being in two parts.... are you planning to recover the silver from the silver sulfate Crystal's in the filter? Would using a little more acid have reduced the Crystal's left behind maybe!? Also what was the temperature of the acid during dissolving the silver? Thanks from the uk where nitric acid is illegal
@@sreetips yes most has a little percentage of silver but I've got about 350 grams of random vintage gold filled that's marked the same as gold filled but then says on sterling in the same tag? I was just wondering if the sulfuric acid will dissolve the gold aswell?
What does one do, if the sulfuric acid gets on one's skin? How do you neutralize sulfuric acid fast enough to stop burning of tissue? Thank you in advance.
@@scrapman502 I will avoid the baking soda at first. If you have sulphuric acid on your skin and you add a base dissolved in water it will generate a lot of heat, because of the water and the base. It is best to use a lot of cold water(and I mean A LOT, wash the affected area for several minutes, even if you think you have cleaned all the acid), and when the acid has been washed off, use sobe baking soda solution to maje sure you get rid of all the acid.
@@luisillo3511 Yep, that's the way to do. Also, CO2 bubbles released by baking soda on contact with H2SO4 would kinda impede the washing off of the acid.
I have never heard of 100% silver from anyone. 99.999 is about the purest available I think although I personallyhave never seen any. 99.99 is about as pure as you can find. He would have to run this through his silver cell to get it that pure. 99.9 is about as pure as you can get it without taking it to the next step.
I had some from the jeweler. He wanted me to check them so I added a couple into a crucible and tried to melt them into a button. It smoked, sputtered, and made brilliant sparks and turned my melt dish black. There was silver in them because I tested with schwerters solution. I ended up giving them back to the jeweler. It looked like to much work for a low yield. Plus I was concerned about the presence of tungsten. It’s below copper in the reactivity series so if I was able to get everything dissolved then the tungsten would cement right back out on copper with the silver. I decided to skip those contractors.
@@sreetips I have some big ones, from high voltage relays. Probably around 5kg, I'm gonna try to refine them using muriatic acid. Some of them are only filled unfortunately, but most have the same alloys the way through. Love your vid's btw.
The brown colour can be because of the chlorine. Adding HCl to conc sulfuric acid can produce chlorine, and maybe it was making the silver chloride brown. When you add more water you wash the chlorine out. Edit: grammar mistake
You are correct. But as a refiner I can never get than much silver. I usually get from 88% to 90% silver from my silver solutions. This has been my experience.
I know it's just silver but couldn't you heat it up to anneal the metal? Could maybe tighten up the rollers quicker if you did that. Might be completely unnecessary though.
Thanks for your service, im retired Army. Question = Does this method only work for silver/copper or will it work when silver is mixed with "other stuff" ? I'm not sure what the "other stuff" is. This is a much cheaper method than straight Nitric acid, but i think that's the way i may have to got, just Nitric.
I use Rooto in my gold refining to precipitate lead. It’s fairly pure acid. There is some solids sometimes but they settle to the bottle and stay as long as you don’t disturb them. The color and clarity are excellent. And if I need more I can run down to the hardware store and get some more. They also sell “Liquid Fire” in 32oz red bottles. It’s the same thing as rooto but it has red food color in it.
Hi Sreetips, I like copper drops better just saying.. I got some electrolyte about 1800ml the solution has sat for a while I put copper in and it seems to be stalled out nothings happened. I know silver there solution from Stannous “tin” Chloride test. I added a drop or two Of nitric acid hoping it start to drop but nothing has happened. I’m sure If I play around with it the solution silver will drop. Have u any tips for what happened did solution go stale like old potato chips and what’s the better way to go about restarting it? Thank you love your videos ur amazing 🙂
Hi there your videos are really interesting, Do you know the Chemistry behind the reactions? It's been years since I was in my science classes. lol If you had a link to something that I could refer to, to make sense of each step it would be great.
Awesome video Sreetips. I had always been taught that Silver Sulfate was insoluble (guessing that was just for water). I’ve also wondered if it’s possible to just melt the silver salts (AgCl or AgSO4) without doing any conversions and still get the metal that way?
Ag2SO4 is poorly soluble in cold water, but not "insoluble". Melting AgCl or Ag2SO4 would not, I think, produce desired results - probably some partial decomposition and creating Ag2S (in case of Ag2SO4), and lot of chlorine gas, gaseous HCl, and even some organic-chlorine compounds like phosgene gas (Carbonyl chloride, COCl2, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene). In short "nah, I don't want even to try that".
@@MrKotBonifacy Interesting thought but I agree, too dangerous. The government won't be pleased if you start making WW1 chemical weapons and venting them over to the next-door neighbours' house.
@@AndyGraceMedia Now, that "_venting them over to the next-door neighbours' house._" seems to me to be a tad far-fetched and rather unsubstantiated scenario - as all those "harmful slash poisonous" fumes produced in a fume hood are vented into the atmosphere, where they got diluted to safe levels. (I guess, in case of modern "proper" labs, or labs working with extremely poisonous substances, their venting systems are fitted with appropriate filters or scrubbers, but we're talking "home/ garage amateur metal refinery" here.) But anyway, I was referring to melting AgCl "Sreetips' way", that is using oxyacetylene torch - and it that case chlorine released during the process might react (and almost certainly will react) with some of yet-unburned-completely acetylene, or with carbon mono-oxide within the flame itself. (CO2 is unstable at higher temperature and decomposes into CO and oxygen, above 800°C/ 1500°F the equilibrium shits almost completely toward CO + O2 mixture - whenever you look inside an old style coal stove with glowing coal pieces - that is, after all volatiles have been burned off completely - you can see tiny and barely visible bluish flames dancing above the coal bed - this is CO, produced within hot coal bed, burning off.) And anyway, my remark was not about "producing", but about "by-products released during (s)melting", some of which are very toxic, and which ARE NOT VENTED anywhere - and thus they would stay inside an enclosed space - unless that (s)melting is done under a fume hood or in the open area. In other words, a warning - "yes, you can, but better don't do it - it is tad risky and rather unhealthy". But... Neighbour's house? Government? Chemical weapons...? Sorry, no comprende... Cheers.
somehow my comment disappeared, but thank you mr. sreetips. i didnt know a pdf version of that book exists, i start reading it now. for now it'll do the job. hopefully i will find one on a yardsale or something. the cheapest i saw was like 250$, online.
Sometimes comments get placed in “held for review” and I have to go in and approve them. Sorry about that. Type the title of her book into google search block - it’s available for free
@@sreetips thank you sir. i will do that and start reading it before i start. i've been doing research for the last 4 weeks. but that book is what i need to finally start my lab operations. thanks again mr. sreetips
I and doing my first silver refinedI got it to Black then when I added my sugar it just crystallized right on top and it's not mixing or reacting what's your advice
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Senior Chief? First time I heard you say that. Thank you for your service fellow sailor!
There are lots of folks doing refining videos. Yours are the absolute best.
Traditional Sreetips!! After 10 years you are still finding new videos to put out!! Great Video Sreetips!!
Have a GREAT Day My Friend!!!
I was gonna ask if you were in the navy… and sounds like you were a senior chief hahaha. I did 14 years myself. Thanks for your service shippy!
MMCS(SW)
@@sreetips Nice! AD1(AW) Love your videos brother!!
Thank you for your service!
This may be simple but it's a high pucker-factor method. I have to agree with you on just putting up with the nitric acid. I once worked at a refinery in SE New Mexico where we had a 3kgal tank of concentrated sulfuric acid that ruptured into it's catch tank (thank God). it dissolved everything that was in it except for the PVC pipes and the HDPE liners on all the pumps. We prayed hard that it didn't rain until we got it all cleared out. luckily we were in the middle of the desert. :D
This is why you are my hero! Thank you for all of your insight and videos!
Heating it up to redness would also help you both bend the uncut/unrolled fork, as well as roll the cut up fork through the process of annealing.
Yes, sterling silver work hardens very quickly.
Darn he's McGyvering pure silver after a visit to the hardware store, that's nuts. My wife's grandfather was a senior chief. He served 31+ years and 3 wars. So do enjoy your videos.👍
Hey Senior, Topper retired AGCS, started off as a STG on small boy in the mid 70’s. I enjoy what you are doing.
Thank you for your service.
Gonna try this out, can't buy nitric acid in Canada as a laymen tradesman such as myself, so before moving in that direction, this looks great for a nice tradeschool try! You are excellent at the videos, Sreetips, & I truly wish you all the best in your endeavors!
Thank you!
@sreetips well, no such luck so far, tried twice and had a colloidal mess each time after adding the hydrochloric acid, first time it was jet black, this time is brown, everything looked like yours until I added the water after the HCL, but it stayed brown and very saturated, no idea why, c'est la vie, I need to move I guess hahaha
Yea living in Canada and wanting to get into refining isn’t a easy task 😅 Alberta Here
@BushDogScrapper Sure is fun to try though! If you have the patience and can pivot alot hahaha
@@ItsKnotBread absolutely
Ahh senior chief. I’ve been binging your channel for the last few weeks wondering what branch you are from. Thank you for your service. This channel is so interesting. I’m always learning something new.
Thank you
Best use ever for a vintage Pyrex Flameware coffe pot!
Those rolled fork tines look quite cool, like a spooky Halloween decoration 😁! Or an art jewellery project. 👍
Another great video thank you! The folks are right about work hardening. Heat that stuff up and it cuts and rolls better. Also does your roller mill not go both directions? I’ve used them in the past that you could roll One Direction until it almost came out and then reverse it and roll it the other. Shire saves time and effort! I love your channel!
Great video , I rewatched because my wife is doing a silver jewellery course and i'm getting her some pure silver bar from scraps and old coins to work with... They have a press to flatten it. I was able to get 4L of nitric acid delivered to my home which surprised me considering it used to be restricted. So I used that. But I agree there is nothing more dangerous to organics than conc. sulphuric and you can buy that at the hardware !!
😮😮 your a senior chief! That's wild, I watch all your videos and I've seen your ships ball cap a few times but I would have never guessed you were a senior chief. That is crazy, I think your the only E7 and above that dosent just say "I'm a chief/senior chief/master chief" as a greeting to people every single day and also every time they interact with anybody else when starting a conversation. I've been in for 9 years so far myself, but trying to make it to 20.
MMCS (SW)
That brown color forming when adding hydrochloric acid to drop silver chloride could actually be anhydrous cupric chloride, since it was in an environment with concentrated sulfuric acid it can't be in its dihydrate form. When adding water to the solution, the brown anhydrous CuCl2 dissolved back into a blue solution.
PLEASE do a separate video on SAFETY EQUIPMENT. What kind of gloves, what kind of ventilation, what kind of mask or not, and so on.
@sreetips brown color: when you are putting HCl into the solution of silver sulfate in H2SO4, copper(II)chloride also form. And because it is nearly anhydrous solution, it has brown colour (anhydrous CuCl2 is brownish). When you add water to it, copper chloride rehydrate and everything have the colour as we are used to :)
Silver and copper work harden. Periodically heating to a red heat then quenching in cool water will significantly reduce the amount of time at the rollers and allow you to close the roller gap quite a bit more between passes. A simple pad of pumice and a MAPP torch is all you need for an annealing station.
I suppose, the brown compound which is formed when the the silver is precipitated, is anhydrous CuCl2, which is insoluable in H2SO4. When water is added, it changes to the blue/green we are used to for copper aqua complexes.
Thanks for that hint, I was wondering myself "what the heck?" Although my thinking leaned toward some poly-sulphuric salts or something like that - but on a second thought that wouldn't make much sense. Anhydrous CuCl2 seems to be fitting explanation for observed phenomena.
EDIT - I just made some quick"back of the envelope (and a calulator)" calculations - just some numbers related to this particular experiment:
- total amount of sterling silver: 118.3 g;
- of which 90% is Ag, thus 106.5 g, and 10% is Cu, thus 11.8 g.
Dividing it by molar mas of those metals we arrive at 0.99 mol (M) of Ag and 0.19 M Cu.
Approx. 500 ml of 93% H2SO4 equals 465 ml of 100% H2SO4, whose density is 1.83 g/cm3, thus approx. 850 g,or 8.68 M of H2SO4 was used here.
The acid works both as oxidiser and solvent, and the reaction apparently goes as folows:
Cu + 2 H2SO4 -> SO2 + 2 H2O + CuSO4, and 2 Ag + 2 H2SO4 -> SO2 + 2 H2O + Ag2SO4
In other words 0.38 M of H2SO4 to dissolve Cu and 0.99 M to dissolve Ag. That leaves us with 7.31 M (716 g/ ~360 ml) of H2SO4 unreacted, further diluted by approx 25 ml of water created during the reaction(s). Means, still "quite concentrated" H2SO4, capable of removing water from CuCl2.
Then of course is water from added HCl, although not very much - and then again, precipitating AgCl "returns" some H2SO4, so...
Thank you for making videos, I am finding all of this super interesting. One thing tho, Please don't pull back your glove to look at your watch with the other gloved hand. If you had acid on that glove for any reason, you would be transferring it to the inside of your other glove and almost definitely causing acid to contact your skin. A small risk, but when you are basically making how-to videos, these practices have to be above board.
Sreetips - stop being so critical of the guy making these videos, he's working hard! Oh wait, that you!! :) Also, I think those last few steps are almost exactly the way I make my morning latte - at least the solutions look the same. Seriously though, really nice video - great work! I can definitely see why you prefer working with nitric acid!
That’s the video I am waiting for! Thank you!
Anneal! Anneal! Anneal! I love your work!!
👍👍I super enjoy watching your shows
Thank you for all your videos and sharing your knowledge.
Next time you try this, run the short pieces through the roller sideways first, they will stretch out sideways. Run them til they are the right width to go thru the rollers, then switch them 90* and run them til thin enough.
24:00 You said, "As the solution cools ..." silver sulphate precipitates. Is the enhanced danger from handling hot acid the reason you let the solutions cool prior to filtration? Also, won't the filter trap silver in the crystals that it stops?
Brown color to my knowledge is/was a combo of the gray/white color of silver chloride and the blue color of copper nitrate and the green color of copper chloride. Hope that sheds some insight, I tried a similar reaction a little while ago.
The darker color of the silver chloride may be due to the dark green color of copper in solution when you add HCl. Copper solutions are normally blue, but when a high amount of chloride is present it turns bright green. Could have something to do with that. Could also maybe have something to do with some of the sulfuric acid decomposing into some kind of source of SO3? That would form a dark red precipitate known as chevreuls salt. I can’t be sure that happens in the solution but either way it’s obviously just something to do with the copper forming some kind of complex in solution that’s staining the silver chloride. It’s broken up once water is added
Love all of your videos. When you added tap water to the beaker at the 28 minute mark wasn't there Sulfuric Acid in the beaker?
Could have been.
Is senior chief the same as Chief Petty Officer Master at Arms (British / common wealth Navy's ) ?
It’s pay grade. E7 is Chief petty officer. E8 is Senior Chief petty officer.
Where is the rubberized acid resistance gloves you should be using and mask to avoid breathing in those vapors???
A mask isn't going to do anything to mitigate perspective damage from those vapors. He uses a fume hood which is necessary when conducting these reactions. The fumes are vented out of the contained box.
If you added a nitrate salt to the warm sulfuric….. wouldn’t that make nitric in-situ then use saltwater or hcl to drop as chloride? Wouldn’t that work much faster then sulfuric alone?
I don’t know, I’ve never tried that
Stupid question, once you get to silver oxide, could you not simply melt it with a fuel rich flame and get elemental silver then?
New chemist here. I don't have a ton of experience, but I believe the brown solid you saw when you added the hydrochloric acid was some kind of copper(I) salt.
Copper has two forms in solution: copper(I) and copper(II). Copper(II) is what you're familiar with. Copper(I) can show up in very acidic environments, so that's why it went away when you added water!
If you repeat this, I would also not recommend adding HCl to sulfuric acid! HCl is mostly water, so it carries the same splattering risk as adding water to the sulfuric acid. It would be safer to add the sulfuric acid/silver sulfate/copper sulfate mixture to water, slowly, and then add the HCl (a saturated NaCl solution would probably work too).
Understand, thank you
What was solid filtered off? Would this work with about 8 pounds of cement silver, likely containing metals below it on reaction table?
It should
I like the fact you bring math and theory together while experimenting
Love the rolling machine! Worm gear and electric motor could speed things up. I just may have to get one for my shop.
What would happen if you passed a current through the silver? You know, electrolysis destroys copper pretty quickly, even with a 9v battery. Would it, perchance, do the same there?
Hmmm. If I have paper filters with gold fingers, can i disolve the paper with sulfuric acid before refining, so I am left with charcoal and gold?
Your question doesn’t make sense.
@@sreetips Make sense to me. Somebody gave me a solid ball of half-dissolved filter papers that have gold fingers inside. I am figuring out how to remove the paper to get to the fingers with acid. My options are burning the paper or dissolving it.
the brown colour is dehydrated copper sulphate i think or copper chloride
I think you ought to XRF that remnant of unknown metals. If they miss others the whole set may be worth refining on its own?
In this video you use rooto drain cleaner 93% nitric acid, but then you said don’t add water to the sulphuric acid. I’m confused which is it. I’m following this method for refining some Wm Rogers flatware that is silver plated, but I believe the base metal is Nickel Silver. My experiment turned to cemented sludge in the straight Rooto no water. Not sure what do next, so I got some of the sludge out into a beaker and added tap water and it turned a dark blue then I let it sit and it formed crystal in the bottom that was rock hard. What was this? I’m not sure. It’s my first time. Thanks
Rooto Professional Drain Opener - available at Ace Hardware - is 93% concentrated sulfuric acid. According to the material safety sheet data.
Watching 3+ weeks after this was uploaded, and silver has seemingly started to make that climb! There's quite a significant ways to go of course to reach the 20-1 ratio stated... but at $28 oz at the end of August, Up from ~$16 beginning of July? That's a nice start!
I used to say $5000 gold and $100 silver. But now it’s looking more like $15000 gold and $250 silver. Just my opinion
@@sreetips I've casually stacked silver, and to a lesser extent gold, as finances have allowed. I'd be happy with my returns on less than half of those numbers!
Can someone explain to me the chemistry of the sugar step? What is the chemical equation there?
If you add sodium nitrate to the sulphuric acid would it dissolve quicker ? Does that not make poor man’s nitric ?
I’ve never used poor-man’s nitric acid.
do you believe the price of silver is being manipulated to raise its value or that it has been manipulated in the past to hold its value down?
Mark, I don’t know. But if you go back to the early sixties President Johnson stated that, “we have sufficient reserves of silver to” dump on the market to curb any price rise that hoarders might expect by hoarding pre-1965 US minted silver coins. But it didn’t work. Today a 1964 90% silver quarter will buy two gallons of gasoline. Those coins have held their value. It’s was very bizarre. Johnson’s remarks are a matter of public record. The gold and silver markets are very thin. Not very many shares (ounces) to go around. So it’s susceptible to manipulation. But this very fact, thinly traded market, could cause panic buying. Especially if investors experience a “Wiley Coyote” moment when they suddenly realize that there’s nothing under their lofty paper valuations except air. With things being the way they are, which is more likely; paper markets getting more valuable, or metals continuing to surge relative to the dollar? Sorry for the sermon.
One thing, unlike the conc sulphuric, muriatic acid is an aqueous solution of hydrogen chloride gas, mainly just water, so when you poured that in the sulphuric you released a lot of heat and some of the HCl gas broke down and released chlorine. and got really hot. you should have poured the mixture slowly into a little water first and then added the HCl.
I was glad that it worked.
@@sreetips yep, your safety is paramount.
Love it. Yes if you anneal it you can get it paper thin.
is there a hard and fast way to know how much lye to add or does it not matter if there is a little AgCl when you go to the sugar step?
I look for a color change to jet black.
sreetips thanks man
You need to anneal the metal after 3 or 4 rolls to soften the metal. All that rolling is hardening the metal making it harder to make thinner.
could you melt it all first quenche the molten sterling making "shot" instead of rolling it all?
Never tried that, I don’t know
Would it be possible to add the sulfuric acid to a bit of H2O2? I think that would greatly speed the dissolution.
Why not fill the the baking dish with ice and keep the heat lower to prevent the buildup and boil over? (Not a chemist, really just want to know if that was an option)
Possible, but then your view of the reaction would be obscured
How do you clean your beakers with residues sulphuric acid?
Alconox
For GSR to adjust to 1;20, it is not necessary for Silver to go up. It is sufficient for gold to drop back. Its not always that Gold and Silver maintain 1;20 ratio. Each have their own life to take care of. Each has different supply demand metrics. To say GSR to be 1;20 is like defining a ratio of Google to GM or FB to Chevron.
So at 29 min, the copper is in the blue solution right?
Correct
sreetips thanks, and sorry I wasn’t patient. Right after I typed that comment you answered the question in the video 😁
Hi there, i have mineral ore that is shiny but im not sure weither it is silver or white gold. Would it be possible to follow your exact tips to determine what it is?
Thanks
Noel, I’ve never worked with mineral ore. I don’t have any experience to share
@@sreetips thank you
Love the roller, in fact I'd like to have 1 but would pounding it with a hammer been quicker? Or is there an issue doing it that way?
Takes longer
@sreetips thanks.
How do you clean the beakers that contained the sulfuric acid?
Hot soapy water
Kev ive seen other refiners use household ammonia between rinses with gold . It cleans up the gold bit better. Whats you say on that .i havent used it yet myself
I avoid ammonia too corrosive. Especially hot. And it’s not necessary.
How do you handle your waste liquids. Have you done a video on that yet?
Yes, waste treatment
Is burning them better than just ultrasonic cleaning them? Seems like the sonic would be so much faster.
I was trained by Harold_V on the goldrefiningforum.com and his motto was; the three most important things about preparing the metal for the acids are, incineration, incineration and incineration. It hasn’t failed me yet.
Might I suggest that you when you're rolling the metal it "work hardens" from the thinning process! It needs to be annealed and then continue the process!
Also, when your filming, only have one project going at a time! Your gold project had your exhaust fan roar through your voice the whole time.
OMG! You broke a cardinal rule! Even you said! Don't ever mix water into acid! You should have poured your acid solution into a beaker with water not the other way around!
BTW - thanks! I really enjoyed watching this!
So those forks are SOLID silver alloy and not just PLATED? I've never run across solid silver flatware, just plated. I'm guessing the yield on plated would be too low to bother with this method?
I have a hoard of silverplated items and im hoping to find a way to process lots of it fairly quickly and inexpensivly.
Do you have any recommendations?
I’ve never tried de-plating silver. I wouldn’t know how.
@@sreetips dang, well thank you for the quick response.
how much should you pay for sterling silver if you want to try and make a profit?
Sreetips, What is the actual temperature of the Acid while dissolving? Since the boiling point of H2SO4 is relatively high, and the dissolving would progress as the temp is raised, wouldnt the dissolving of the sterling silver move along much faster at about 280 F?
I had the heat as high as it would go.
@@sreetips , yup figured...Thank You for your great content, and attention to details! As we all know "The Devil is in the details"...lol..God Bless
@@sreetips , well sorry but that still does not explain the actual temperature that your hot plate was able to raise the temperature of the H2SO4 solution too.
However, and with that being said after asking that question of you I decided to find out myself and share that with your viewers...I added 200ml of concentrated 93% H2SO4 to a beaker, I then added about 12 grams of Ag powder and a stir bar. I also placed a watch glass and then began incrementally raising the Temperature. Using a very good thermocouple I found that the optimum temperature to quickly dissolve Ag in concentrated 93% sulphuric acid in 2 hours elapsed time was 375 degrees F. while being moderatly stirred by a magnet stir bar.
So, there you and your viewers go.
Ok thank for that
Mr Sreetips, did you consider heating the silver to a heat below melting point ? Certainly this should facilitate easier rolling as it does with steel.
But I have not checked the physical properties of Silver in this regard yet
I think you are right. I didn’t do it because I didn’t think of it.
Do you have to use more sulfuric acid if you want to dissolve for example 500 g of scrap silver? Is there a way to calculate how much acid relative to silver?
Stoichiometry
@@sreetips Thanks again!
Out of all your experiments. Which method have you found to be the most cost effective, quicker regardless of cost. And even both cheaper and quicker for silver refining? Thank you great video.
I'm not sreetips, and I've refined very little silver but in my opinion the fastest and cheapest way would be dissolving in nitric acid, precipitating with sodium chloride and turning into silver with lye and sugar, and then melting.
The electrolytic silver cell may be cheaper, and gives a more pure product, but it's slower.
The sulphuric acid method can be cheaper depending on the price of the acid, but it seems slower, more dangerous and you might not get all of the silver.
If you don't want supper pure silver simply dissolving in nitric acid and then cementing with copper metal and finally melting can be good enough.
I hope I helped somehow.
Edit: you can heat up the silver chloride directly, and it will decompose into silver metal and chlorine gas. This will be faster and cheaper than the lye and sugar route, but you will have to deal with the chlorine, as it's toxic and corrosive to metals.
Same thing with the oxide. When you add lye to silver chloride it makes silver oxide, and the the sugar reduces it to the metal. You can stop at the oxide and melt it, but the oxygen produced will dissolve in the molten silver and will make the surface of the silver ugly when solidifying. In the end I recommend turning into metal powder to avoid problems.
@@luisillo3511 Yes you did. Thank you very much.
What if there's copper in solution?
I get rid of it
Have you considered using electric current to speed up the dissolving process?
No I have not
Are those "watch glass" covers some kind of common pyrex plate? Where do you get those?
I bought those at the thrift store. I think they resist heat ok. But I’ve shattered one by rinsing while it was hot with gold water.
Hello Chief I wanted to ask you if you know why when I recently did my second batch precipitating silver the silver came out of solution on its own. I believe it was due to the type of silver plated scrap I was using. The silver plating was over the top of some 1/4" copper. When I decided that the silver had precipitated I stopped adding the nitric acid and allowed it to sit overnight to burn any remaining acid up and settle for siphoning. The next morning I basically found the step to pull the silver out of solution was already completed due to the copper base metal being left in the beaker overnight. I left it in there to try and harvest the maximum yield of silver instead of extracting it which I feel would have prevented the silver solidifying prematurely, do you feel my deduction into the matter to be correct or do you have something different as suspect? One more thing,my silver has been fine and siltlike in nature unlike the granular texture you harvest. Could it be from using the nitric without being diluted as much trying to expedite the reaction time?
I appreciate the time and knowledge you have shared with the public , your style is very comprehendible and easy to follow and would like to say thanks...
Reactivity series of metals. After dissolving the silver will cement right back out on the base metals as silver powder. Excess nitric will redissolve the silver and cement out on the bare metals until the base metals are gone. This firms a very fine silver powder
Hello Sir, Thank you for the wonderful video.
This method is faster for us beginners with the maximum of precautions we can do. Thank you.
Instead of adding the HCL acid to the sulphuric/Ag2S04 solution, has anyone tried making up the correct volume of near-saturated NaCl/water in a large beaker/flask, then *slowly* and initially dropwise, adding with stirring, the H2S04/Ag2SO4 solution. I know people have successfully added NaCl solution to the H2S04/Ag2SO4 but that seems more risky heat/splashes wise. It's something I may try because the nitric route is out for me due to reagent unavailability
I don’t use salt. It doesn’t burn, it melts when heated.
@@sreetips Thx for your reply. I can see you don't use salt. I suggested it to avoid expense & slight additional risk of muriatic acid, compared to salt solution. I know nothing in all this actually burns, flame-wise. There are some situations where conc. H2SO4 can overheat to spattering level when mixed with certain other reagents. I was a lab tech for 5 years, a long time ago
Awesome cant wait to see the yield... it's a tease though being in two parts.... are you planning to recover the silver from the silver sulfate Crystal's in the filter? Would using a little more acid have reduced the Crystal's left behind maybe!?
Also what was the temperature of the acid during dissolving the silver?
Thanks from the uk where nitric acid is illegal
Is it really?? Pretty sure we had it in my school chemistry lab! Prolly bcos of the EU: but we're out of it now!!
It's not illegal, you just need either an appropriate registered business need for Nitric or you need an EPP licence from the home office.
Can this be done with gold filled with a sterling silver base metal? And will it leave gold foil untouched?
Maybe, but I’ve never seen GF with silver base.
I’ve never seen GF with silver base
@@sreetips I can send a pic. I got a few different items that are stamped 1/20 12k gf on sterling?
There is silver in GF material.
@@sreetips yes most has a little percentage of silver but I've got about 350 grams of random vintage gold filled that's marked the same as gold filled but then says on sterling in the same tag? I was just wondering if the sulfuric acid will dissolve the gold aswell?
If you're diabetic can you use sweet and low?
Dont think so as its not a reducing agent (saccharin). and you would need a lot of those little packets.
Yes, you can. But you won't get any reduction : )
Iv never wooshed before, but.......
What does one do, if the sulfuric acid gets on one's skin? How do you neutralize sulfuric acid fast enough to stop burning of tissue? Thank you in advance.
I don’t think that you can. It will destroy the skin on contact. Irreversible.
Keep a jar of Dissolved Baking soda handy to dowse any sulfuric acid spills It'll stop the acid, but will not reverse any damage already done.
@@scrapman502 I will avoid the baking soda at first. If you have sulphuric acid on your skin and you add a base dissolved in water it will generate a lot of heat, because of the water and the base.
It is best to use a lot of cold water(and I mean A LOT, wash the affected area for several minutes, even if you think you have cleaned all the acid), and when the acid has been washed off, use sobe baking soda solution to maje sure you get rid of all the acid.
@@luisillo3511 Yep, that's the way to do. Also, CO2 bubbles released by baking soda on contact with H2SO4 would kinda impede the washing off of the acid.
Why not fashion a bit for an 18 volt drill and use that instead of by hand?
Sreetips, I'm having finding whatman glass microfibre filters GF/D, will GF/A work in it's place?
As long as they’re glass fiber they should work with the silfuric acid.
@@sreetips Thank you very for the prompt reply.
With all the refining that you do, why do you state 99.9% fine. should it not be 100% as you have chemically removed all impurities? just wondering?
I have never heard of 100% silver from anyone. 99.999 is about the purest available I think although I personallyhave never seen any. 99.99 is about as pure as you can find. He would have to run this through his silver cell to get it that pure. 99.9 is about as pure as you can get it without taking it to the next step.
Have you processed any contactors from electrical fuses and stuff?
I had some from the jeweler. He wanted me to check them so I added a couple into a crucible and tried to melt them into a button. It smoked, sputtered, and made brilliant sparks and turned my melt dish black. There was silver in them because I tested with schwerters solution. I ended up giving them back to the jeweler. It looked like to much work for a low yield. Plus I was concerned about the presence of tungsten. It’s below copper in the reactivity series so if I was able to get everything dissolved then the tungsten would cement right back out on copper with the silver. I decided to skip those contractors.
@@sreetips I have some big ones, from high voltage relays. Probably around 5kg, I'm gonna try to refine them using muriatic acid. Some of them are only filled unfortunately, but most have the same alloys the way through.
Love your vid's btw.
Hydrochloric won’t dissolve silver. It will form a passive layer on the silver and shield it from the acids.
@@sreetips sry, I meant sulfuric 😂
The brown colour can be because of the chlorine. Adding HCl to conc sulfuric acid can produce chlorine, and maybe it was making the silver chloride brown. When you add more water you wash the chlorine out.
Edit: grammar mistake
If lye isn’t added and it’s just melted before the lye and sugar would it still melt into a silver tho
I’m told the black silver oxide will melt into metallic silver. But I’ve never tried it.
@@sreetips thank you for the reply. I’ll try it my next go around and see. Have a good night.
Sterling silver is 92.5 % silver or higher orit can not be classed as sterling. I could be wrong if i am please let me know.
You are correct. But as a refiner I can never get than much silver. I usually get from 88% to 90% silver from my silver solutions. This has been my experience.
I know it's just silver but couldn't you heat it up to anneal the metal? Could maybe tighten up the rollers quicker if you did that. Might be completely unnecessary though.
why not melt the forks and pour into a bucket of water to make them mossy? Extreme increase in surface area
Excellent idea
Thanks for your service, im retired Army. Question = Does this method only work for silver/copper or will it work when silver is mixed with "other stuff" ? I'm not sure what the "other stuff" is. This is a much cheaper method than straight Nitric acid, but i think that's the way i may have to got, just Nitric.
I’ve used it with sterling silver an alloy of roughly 90% silver and about 10% copper. I’ve not tried it on other alloys.
Thanks, i'll try it and see what happens
Can something like “Rooto” be used to precipitate lead out of gold bearing solutions? Or will it need to be purified in some way?
I use Rooto in my gold refining to precipitate lead. It’s fairly pure acid. There is some solids sometimes but they settle to the bottle and stay as long as you don’t disturb them. The color and clarity are excellent. And if I need more I can run down to the hardware store and get some more. They also sell “Liquid Fire” in 32oz red bottles. It’s the same thing as rooto but it has red food color in it.
Thank you that is exactly what I needed to know!
Wow thank you once again
Can't wait to get started 😊
Sulfuric acid vs nitric acid. Both are risky business. Cost differential? Time differential?
Nitric is easier but more expensive. A gallon of sulfuric is about $20
Hi Sreetips, I like copper drops better just saying.. I got some electrolyte about 1800ml the solution has sat for a while I put copper in and it seems to be stalled out nothings happened. I know silver there solution from Stannous “tin” Chloride test. I added a drop or two Of nitric acid hoping it start to drop but nothing has happened. I’m sure If I play around with it the solution silver will drop. Have u any tips for what happened did solution go stale like old potato chips and what’s the better way to go about restarting it? Thank you love your videos ur amazing 🙂
Hi there your videos are really interesting, Do you know the Chemistry behind the reactions? It's been years since I was in my science classes. lol If you had a link to something that I could refer to, to make sense of each step it would be great.
I learned on goldrefiningforum.com
Awesome video Sreetips. I had always been taught that Silver Sulfate was insoluble (guessing that was just for water). I’ve also wondered if it’s possible to just melt the silver salts (AgCl or AgSO4) without doing any conversions and still get the metal that way?
Ag2SO4 is poorly soluble in cold water, but not "insoluble". Melting AgCl or Ag2SO4 would not, I think, produce desired results - probably some partial decomposition and creating Ag2S (in case of Ag2SO4), and lot of chlorine gas, gaseous HCl, and even some organic-chlorine compounds like phosgene gas (Carbonyl chloride, COCl2, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene). In short "nah, I don't want even to try that".
@@MrKotBonifacy Interesting thought but I agree, too dangerous. The government won't be pleased if you start making WW1 chemical weapons and venting them over to the next-door neighbours' house.
@@AndyGraceMedia Now, that "_venting them over to the next-door neighbours' house._" seems to me to be a tad far-fetched and rather unsubstantiated scenario - as all those "harmful slash poisonous" fumes produced in a fume hood are vented into the atmosphere, where they got diluted to safe levels. (I guess, in case of modern "proper" labs, or labs working with extremely poisonous substances, their venting systems are fitted with appropriate filters or scrubbers, but we're talking "home/ garage amateur metal refinery" here.)
But anyway, I was referring to melting AgCl "Sreetips' way", that is using oxyacetylene torch - and it that case chlorine released during the process might react (and almost certainly will react) with some of yet-unburned-completely acetylene, or with carbon mono-oxide within the flame itself. (CO2 is unstable at higher temperature and decomposes into CO and oxygen, above 800°C/ 1500°F the equilibrium shits almost completely toward CO + O2 mixture - whenever you look inside an old style coal stove with glowing coal pieces - that is, after all volatiles have been burned off completely - you can see tiny and barely visible bluish flames dancing above the coal bed - this is CO, produced within hot coal bed, burning off.)
And anyway, my remark was not about "producing", but about "by-products released during (s)melting", some of which are very toxic, and which ARE NOT VENTED anywhere - and thus they would stay inside an enclosed space - unless that (s)melting is done under a fume hood or in the open area.
In other words, a warning - "yes, you can, but better don't do it - it is tad risky and rather unhealthy".
But... Neighbour's house? Government? Chemical weapons...? Sorry, no comprende...
Cheers.
somehow my comment disappeared, but thank you mr. sreetips. i didnt know a pdf version of that book exists, i start reading it now. for now it'll do the job. hopefully i will find one on a yardsale or something. the cheapest i saw was like 250$, online.
Sometimes comments get placed in “held for review” and I have to go in and approve them. Sorry about that. Type the title of her book into google search block - it’s available for free
@@sreetips thank you sir. i will do that and start reading it before i start. i've been doing research for the last 4 weeks. but that book is what i need to finally start my lab operations. thanks again mr. sreetips
I and doing my first silver refinedI got it to Black then when I added my sugar it just crystallized right on top and it's not mixing or reacting what's your advice
If you heat the metal (anneal) when it becomes difficult to roll it will be much easier to work with.