Michael Heiser - Predestination & Foreknowledge
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2018
- Predestination and foreknowledge aren’t the same. Foreknowledge does not necessitate predestination. In 1 Samuel 23:1-13 it’s clear, God foreknew a possible outcome that never actually happens-foreknowledge does not command that it’s predestined to happen. In other words, the means by which God works are His own-God can predestine things if He wants, but we cannot conclude that everything that happens was predestinated.
We cannot exist as God’s own image if everything is predestined (Genesis 1:27). Free will (what we choose) matters, although we may not know how it matters exactly-God is omniscient and God will use it-only God knows such things. If everything is predestined, we would have no free will and we would simply be robots. This is why God does not eliminate evil just yet. In doing so, God would have to eliminate all of humanity as well as everything else in the spiritual world having free will. God is omniscient and knows what the cost is going to be. He would rather have us and have that cost happen than not have us at all!
God formed humanity in His own image-in meaning “functioning in the capacity of.” In other words, we are imager’s of God, created as God’s image. God is speaking to the divine council (the heavenly host)-the words Elohim and created are both used in the singular here (Genesis 1:26-27). In His own image is also singular-the image isn’t an attribute we have, it’s a status, a role in God’s divine plan. Given this status, our cognitive awareness of our very being, our existence and physicality, we are God-conscious-we worship and love God, understand and choose, and maintain the capacity for holiness:
• Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, to be like us. Let them be masters over the fish in the ocean, the birds that fly, the livestock, everything that crawls on the earth, and over the earth itself!” So God created mankind in his own image; in his own image God created them; he created them male and female. (Genesis 1:26-27)
As for the death penalty offenses in scripture, there is only one that preceded the theocracy, which is murder. Murder is so offensive because it’s like killing God in effigy. Bodily harm such as kidnapping or assault, these also were death penalty offenses-direct attacks against the image of God. This frame of reference was carried to the utmost degree:
• “Whoever sheds human blood, by a human his own blood is to be shed; because God made human beings in his own image. (Genesis 9:6)
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Thank YOU merciful God for giving us the gift of redemption, instead of punishing us with death. Praised be Thy name, Merciful God.
The Lord is NOT willing that anyone should perish. He loves each person and is patient unto us all. Praise the Lord!!!
That is true. What is also true is the fact that not all come to Christ, because they cannot if they are not drawn by the father. All truth balances out in Scripture. There is human responsibility and volition, and there is Divine Decree. God does not want anyone to perish, yet they are unable to do so otherwise.
King James Bible
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:32
The Holy God of the Holy Bible does not call sinners to repent yet also has predestinated them to hell for his glory as well.
@@codemasterz6074Your statement contradicts itself and will not withstand Biblical Scholastic Peer review.
Romans 9....
@@BaronReed-rj9rz what? have you read John 6?
wow this is an amazing explanation. He who has ears let him hear.
Amen
Fate and freewill coexist. There are events which are fated to happen, and yet at the same time people still have the ability to make choices. And know this: everyone's freewill is limited to what they can possibly imagine; one cannot do something if they are unable to imagine it first. In this way, the infinite mind of God can take into account all of our freewill choices which are finite. God's mind is so infinite that it even encompasses freewill itself.
He knows our innermost workings.
as a mother of 5 full time kids and several others that came to stay awhile and then left I've got 35yrs straight and total of 100+ years if we add the ages of the full timers...i have some experience. i as a simple human mom i can tell you with about 80% certainty what my kids are going to or are doing...they have free will but i know (and as teenagers that killed them) whats up.
now imagine what an omnipotent omnipresent Father can know. we have free will but he knows us.
He knows us so intimately nothing surprises him and he is a like a chess grandmaster who sees 7 billion players at once and they provoke move they should make and prepares for all of them. We have free will but it doesn't mean God doesn't know.
1Samuel 23 teaches compatibility clearly and concisely
This answered so many questions for me and "I found it" (It found me, God put it in front of me[choose the one which least offends]) at the most perfect time.
This one video sums up so many things in one, in such an irrefutable way, its incredible.
Thank God HE receives ALL the GLORY and HE will NOT share HIS GLORY with another.
HE chose me to salvation in pure grace and mercy
Mis Mr Heiser he's with Jesus now
AMEN.
This explanation should be heard by every serious Christian.
Oh God, create in me a new heart.
That's why evil is such. It isn't needed for the plans of God. To realize this is to start to realize the horror of sin and the love of God through His allowance of life inspite of our failing and His unbound grace in the plan of salvation.
Please explain why the Bible says God created evil?
@@adreethomas2844 in order to understand the meaning of a verse or passage, one has to always read within context.
If you're referring the verse in Isaiah 45:7 many bible scholars agree that the wrong word was used in the translation. The better or more correct word in that verse would be calamity.
Look at the verse, I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Notice it says light and darkness (opposites)
Then peace and evil? It doesn't equate, the better word was trouble or calamity and not evil as in killings, rape and all the bad things that we sometimes do.
God allows evil to happen bcos of our free will that He has given to His creation both human beings and angels were allowed to choose what they wanted but must also accept the consequences.
God allows evil to happen, not create.
God is light, and in him is no darkness at all
1 john 1:5
David Shosho But Peter said it was God who ordained the evil that happened to Jesus Christ? Who do you explain that please
@@brandedforchrist which verse is that in Peter?
@@adreethomas2844 it is better tranlated as 'i create calamity'" rather than evil.
Great commentary
Excellent.
Bloody good
Very insightful, well explained and accurate.
@stephen miller what are some of the specific issues you with what Dr. Heiser is saying?
@stephen miller I’m assuming you’re educated in Hebrew culture & can interpret the Old & New Testament from there language translation yes??😏
I didn’t think 🤔 so!!
We Christians have so much religion, and traditions, that are not that Biblical. Dr. Heiser, really present a serious, deep , and profaund alternative, against Christian religiosity
We are NOT like God... we are like the Lord. There is a difference.
I knew he was gonna say that.
This insight is a game changer.
It's a channel changer, actually.
Yes it is
I'd very much like to here a discussion about this topic between Mr Heiser and James White
ha ha ha (so would we ALL)...... but in the true manner of the philosopher, White has *_already_* adopted the standard angst and arrogance of the higher-minded Calvinist and thereby dismissed the nephilim-believing Heiser...
SAME!
They have a few back and forth videos. I don't like James' attitude and his arguments fall apart very quickly.
@@RealCaptainAwesome He’s a Calvinist and thus has the arrogance and stupidity of his father, John Calvin.
There’s no reason to engage a fool.
Me too ...that would be interesting
I think there's a principle people, in general, get wrong. The Bible doesn't use absolutist language about free will or predeterminism. What things are predestined are predestined, and what things God says you choose, you need to choose. Scripture isn't written like metaphysics, it's narrative, it's contextually presented. Excessive generalization without accounting for the WHOLE STORY is a massive mistake, and it's a mistake most systematic theology makes.
The Bible could not be more absolute about predestination. The word is literally there. Yet the word free will is not. And the word choose is never next to or associated with the word freely.
@@billyr9162 I'm pretty sure there aren't _any_ English words in there.
@@josephbrandenburg4373
English words in where?
@@billyr9162 In the Bible. It's completely silly to say "my word is in the book, your word isn't" when you're using a translation.
@@josephbrandenburg4373
I don't think so. The word predestination is in The Bible. In English.
no matter what this guy talks about the conclusion is always some kind of equivocation.
I like the sound of that a whole lot better than the Calvinist explanation of God predestining horrific evil acts for some unknown purpose like the holocaust or child rape etc.
it never makes since for me to think that I’m the Old Testament God despises child sacrifice and commands his people not to do it. So why would he predestine things and then be disgusted at them when they happen?
Michael has really came through clutch with some big answer to some deep questions I’ve had regarding predestination.
GOD will negotiate, if it doesn't change all of reality. Just ask HIM. Some things don't matter. What did you have for breakfast, what color shoes are you wearing, etc. These are personal choices, and GOD is willing to negotiate much larger issues, with no butt-hurt at all.
The question still remains: doesn't God know what we will choose?
Mike was very clear on that, of course God knows beforehand what we will choose. The point was does God choose who will believe in Him and who will not.
I mean, there's really only one answer.
What's someone going to say? "No. That's the only thing in ALL that has been, is, and will be that God doesn't know." Of course he knows.
Give the video another listen. It's very good.
This is compatibility: Gen 4:7 Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it.” God knew what Cain would do ( omniscience) and allowed Cain’s freedom of choice to continue.
Big difference between nature (fallen, separate from God, evil) and free will. Cain's fallen, separated nature, which is not obiedanrvto God, is what was in control. His will was, as all who are borne of Adam, prior to regeneration, is desperately wicked and evil and not only will not, but cannot please God. See Genisis 5:1-6
I'm a believer and I appreciate Dr. Heiser's explanations. I do however, have a question that has tweeked my curiosity for some time. If heaven is perfect, and I believe it is. What is the purpose or advantage of a corporal existence?
We will be like Jesus in the Resurrection. Man was made for the earth and from the dust of the ground. Material existence is not evil or bad. Man is both physical and spiritual just like Jesus.
Salvation, through belief and faith in what Jesus did in the cross and Him rising the third day.
Because the wages of sin is death.
But resurrection through Jesus (Jeshua).
It's late and my brain is tired so I may be way off base here but I had a thought.
*If Romans 9 clearly lays out the case for foreknowledge and predestination of the 'elect' to reach salvation, yet we are never told who the 'elect' are.. a theory popped into my head drawing a line to the 'unforgivable sin'.
If the elect are elected and predestined for salvation then it would be reasonable to think they could not be capable of committing the "unforgivable sin" of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit right? (As that would be unforgivable)
Yet, then we get to Hebrews 6:4-8.
*If this passage lays out a contextual example of an already once repentant believer who was "once enlightened, have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come" yet is now not possibly able to be restored AGAIN to repentance, as *wilfully giving up/losing their salvation then..
Is it not possible that these two positions are not actually at odds with each other?
Could they not be mutually exclusive as in one is a contextual example of *willful giving up of salvation/falling away by those who can while the other is an example of an *elect group of people who cannot do so (by the logic of they were predestined to be elect/saved)?
Again, I'm well aware that I'm way out of my depth here but it *seemed logical.
Almost like different branches of the same tree where not all of the original branches were spared, all were called but not all were chosen (few were elected). Yet new branches were later allowed to be grafted on but the new branches were also warned not to *fall away of their own free will (apostasy)?
Does this mean that those who are elect become elect through interaction with believers (access to the truth of the Gospel)?
.... another hint. "Go. You will be successful."
😁
Isaiah 45:7
King James Version
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Please make this make sense.
It just means " God is the RIGHTEOUS KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL "
There's a massive difference in how people compute that. Its the con Satan used. .'you'll become 'like God' knowing good and evil.
You have no mechanism of knowing 'consequence' from beginning and end.
" My ways are not your ways" is why you'll always find that very difficult to understand. You cannot believe God simply, so will always try to be complex. Its like how people are today.
Jesus command : Stay CALM.
Most Christians : Asteroids are going to hit earth. Aliens are coming. Stock up on supplies! Build bunkers! World economies will collapse!!..Buy gold! Vaccines will kill you! Chips will control you! 5G will fry your skull!
So..the same ones will be telling you 'Trust Jesus'. Get it? If you like to get through the times and years ahead..you need to be CALM.
Then you might understand that while God can effect 'evil' its in the context of overall good. .just beyond parameters you can compute.
That verse is often used to say "YHWH is an evil God" as computed by the Luciferian mindset...so if you're led in that thinking, then you know where the suggestion comes from.
Adree Thomas, I would recommend reading it in the ESV, NIV or NLT. The King James uses languages and vocab that has changed over time, and modern translations use contemporary language.
It also seems that the context of Isaiah 45 is God telling King Cyrus that God himself is the one who appointed him to rule the nations. God is showing that he is in control of the nations and their kings (Like it says in Pro. 21:1). So when the Lord speaks in Isaiah 45:7 and says that he himself makes "well-being and creates calamity" (ESV), God is saying that he is in control of all things, including good and bad. I don't think it means that he creates evil.
The problem with your position is you believe God only predestines physical/material things. Any hypotheticals or possibilities are also predestined and therefore known by God.
Scripture states that All humans are predestined to (eventually) be in the image of Jesus.
Free will gives each of us the ability to do right or wrong in Gods view, to determine whether we will be judged to be rewarded, or corrected during the age lasting time period (beginning at the return of Christ, ending at the final judgment)
Instead of either blaming [the Most High or] God or, just going to atheism or whatever, people should just accept that we have little to no knowledge of good and evil, of what's real and what's not, ourselves and each other, nature and what's in it, or of the Most High YAH, Yahshua, or the Set Apart Spirit.
We are almost COMPLETELY dependent on probability and belief, and have LITTLE, if ANY knowledge.
Suggested look-ups: -Faith (definition) -Belief (definition) -Truth (definition) -Fallibilism -Social construct
*Well my thoughts on*
*Predestination? Not* *that lt matters but* *only to mine own* *Salvation,! All have* *the Option to either* *Choose To Obey*
*Or Choose Not to* *Obey, Freewill ls the* *Option to Choose lf* *you do Not Die* *Before the Choice ls* *Made, Because after* *Death there ls No* *Time Left to Chose*
*Good or Evil and You* *will Die ln Sin*
We all die in sin. But the conclusion found in Eschatology of scripture, is that in the end, All of Gods creation will be reconciled to Him
@@Ricksworld1962
GH_G We all die Sinners But Deut5:9,10
Says Who and Why we will be allowed into the Kingdom of Almighty God and his Son Y'shuah Ha Mashiach...John14:15
If you love me Keep my Commandments...
@@geraldjohnson8871
Who would be an example of the ppl in Matthew 5:19, labeled as “least” in the kingdom of heaven? These are ppl who not only broke Gods commands, but taught others to break them as well
@@Ricksworld1962
G H_G l believe the answer is in the next verse>20 called the least does Not say they will be in the kingdom says called the least of those in the Kingdom...
@@geraldjohnson8871
I used to think the same, but once I started testing for truth, I began to see what appeared to be contradictions. For example: in Matthew 11:11 Jesus says that among those born of the womb, none are greater than John the Baptist, but those who are least in the kingdom of heaven, are greater than John.
Based on my findings that after All people have been reconciled back to God (after most ppl go through the age lasting correction, starting at the return of Jesus, ending at final judgement), even the worst of the worst here on earth will have been purified to be better than the best of the best was while in the flesh.
John will be among those called Great in the kingdom of heaven, but as we All have sin while in the flesh, once God purifies us All, the worst of the worst in the flesh will all be perfected.
Only those who will not have to go to the “Correction” upon the return of Jesus, will be among those called Great in the kingdom of heaven.
I really like many of his explanations here. A lot of truth, especially the “as image bearers” discussion. But there are 2 problems:
(1) God’s predestination of all things isn’t a function of foreknowledge operating alone. It is a function of foreknowledge/omniscience and omnipotence. Before God created the world he knew all the worlds he could create and he chose to create this world knowing all that would happen. He could have changed anything he wanted about this world (ie omnipotence) but chose to create this world... and everything that happens in it... for a purpose.
(2) Although Dr. Heiser is correct that as image bearers we must have “freedom”, he mis-defines “freedom”. He holds to the humanistic view that freedom is some kind of “independence from God”. In other words, in order to be “free” we must be in some sense “independent” of God. But Biblically this is false. “Independence from God” is rebellion. Freedom is NEVER defined as “independence from God”, indeed just the opposite is true. The Bible describes us as being “free” when we totally depend on God. God IS Freedom. So, we are truly “free” when we are servants of God who does all our master calls us to do. For examples of this see Moses. He tells Pharaoh to let God’s people go SO THAT THEY COULD WORSHIP GOD. Freedom is the worship of God. If Adam and Eve had followed God’s command they would have been free. If Israel had followed the law, they would have been free. Jesus is the great example of freedom and here is how he describes himself:
John 5:30
I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.
John 12:49
I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it.
John 12:50
And I know that His command leads to eternal life. So I speak exactly what the Father has told Me to say."
John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works.
Freedom is doing what is good and being conformed into the image of Christ. It is not any kind of “independence from God”. It is total dependence on Him.
"If Adam and Eve had followed God’s command they would have been free."
Are you claiming that Adam and Eve were *not* free in their orginal sinless state? Weren't Adam and Eve free to choose to _remain_ free -- and at the same time, free to choose _not_ to remain free?
@@lizzkaayako2270 - You are equivocating on your use of the word “free” there. In the first part you say: “Weren’t Adam and Eve free to choose to remain free”. You cannot mean “free” in the first use of that word (ie “free to choose”) in the same sense as the second use (ie “remain free”). As a result, I think you are confusing yourself.
But no, I would not say that Adam and Eve were “free to choose”. Quite frankly, I don’t even know what that means. It isn’t a Biblical term. In addition, they HAD or WERE REQUIRES to choose between 2 options:
(1) obey God;
(2) don’t obey God.
It isn’t obvious to me what is meant by “free to choose” in that context. As the Bible uses the term freedom, it is the TRUTH that sets us free (ie obeying God’s commands… see John 8:31-32). But as we find out, Adam and Eve were deceived by a lie. They did not abide in the word of God. So they were not free.
@@brentonstanfield5198 I used the definition precisely as you provided: "The Bible describes us as being 'free' when we totally depend on God."
i.e.,
1) "Are you claiming that Adam and Even were *not* [totally dependent on God] in their original sinless state?"
2) "Weren't Adam and Eve [totally dependent on God] to choose to *remain* [totally dependent on God]?"
In your reply, you stated:
"'But no, I would not say that Adam and Eve were “free to choose”. Quite frankly, I don’t even know what that means.'"
"Free to choose," in its general sense, simply means "possessing the agency to be otherwise."
To reiterate...
1) Are you claiming that Adam and Even were *not* [totally dependent on God] in their original sinless state?
2) Weren't Adam and Eve [totally dependent on God] to choose to *remain* [totally dependent on God]?
And a subsequent question, based on your reply:
3) Did Adam and Eve possess the agency to be otherwise?
@@lizzkaayako2270 - In one sense, Adam and Eve were totally dependent on God. They could do nothing without Him, like the rest of us (see John 15). That is the whole point.
In another sense, no they did not depend totally on God… they depended on the lie of the serpent. In their hearts, they did not depend on God’s word, they depended on the Serpent’s words.
The difference between these two senses of “dependence” is important. If God (ie the Good, the Truth, the Free) is not at work in you then you will do what is evil and believe the lie. You depend on God’s work in you. The moment you realize that, the moment God shows you that, you have been set free. Adam and Eve were not convinced of that in the Garden… and so they believed the lie. Thereafter, I have very little doubt that they were convinced of their dependence on God… because God showed them their dependence through the trial. He does the same for all of us.
As for your subsequent question, Adam and Eve could have done otherwise… only if they wanted to do otherwise in the moment. They are bound by their desire at the moment of choice.
Can you please tell us what is the original seminar/seremon?
I disagree with labeling God's knowledge of Saul and men of Keilah's intentions as foreknowledge. David was merely seeking out God's wisdom with those questions, much like how one would use a trusted advisor.
Justanother@ A trusted advisor is only capable of making an educated guess. God knows exactly what the possible future holds given the differing actions of people
We know He doesn't need evil to further His plan, because there is no evil (sort of) in the garden of Eden?
You said you don't like predestination so you deny God's word ?
Some of the word salad in these comments is incredible.
If that's your argument then please explains to me
Deuteronomy 31:16....
16-God spoke to Moses: "You're about to die and be buried with your ancestors. You'll no sooner be in the grave than this people will be up and whoring after the foreign gods of this country that they are entering. They will abandon me and violate my Covenant that I've made with them. I'll get angry, oh so angry! I'll walk off and leave them on their own, won't so much as look back at them.
I would also like to see a discussion between Dr. Heiser and James White as Muslims love to use Mr. White’s views to reject that Jesus died for all who would repent and believe in him. They use his videos a lot to reject salvation through the cross. Very disheartening.
db198081 that's because white is wrong
No it's not that Dr White is wrong it is that you and your Muslim apologists mis represent reformed theological understanding. Everything is about the cross it is just a difference in application
YHWH's Clay if limited atonement is true, then there is no meaningful way to deal with their criticisms. The perfect excuse to state before Gods throne would be “you didn’t die for me, so...” Limited atonement, in my opinion, is a very poor doctrine that detracts both from God’s love as well as His justice. It’s also the most difficult doctrine to defend. Just listen to the most learned reformed theologians try and explain it and compare that to how they explain, for instance, God’s knowledge. One of them they deal with scripture, the other they deal with mental gymnastics and much labor. It’s very telling.
@@BradTheMr
If unlimitted atonement is true then Gods word fails if i accept God being anything other than the soveriegn over all then This God is no longer worthy of my worship nor does its phlosophical existence reach the rquirement of the greatest maximal being. That for me anyway is a problem.
YHWH's Clay I would only ask why does the provision for all men to be saved necessitate God’s failure? If He sovereignly set out to provide an avenue for all men to be saved regardless of lineage or works, instead by faith, how then has God failed? Like I said before, I agree that God is maximally great, but that does in fact necessitate love and justice. Limited atonement falls short on both, for if we look at Paul’s first words in Romans 9, he is displaying a love for lost souls that even God is not displaying.
That is a strange portion of scripture to address foreknowledge. It doesn’t follow the question. Foreknowing is an intimate knowledge of something. In scripture, when a man knows his wife. To say that David’s situation was a choose your own adventure, and God knew multiple outcomes, is obviously incorrect. God was simply telling David what actions these people would take if he stayed in the city. It doesn’t mean that it was ever going to happen. Predestined is to have the destiny locked in and guaranteed, before it is reached. The Lord having an intimate knowledge of you before you were born, and foreordaining you, before time, to be destined to be found in Christ, is not even remotely close to God telling David that these people will give David over. Using this portion of scripture to explain foreknowledge and predestination is disastrous. It does not hold up to an iota of scrutiny.
I can explain for you.
But you'd better get a move on... I am ending my ministry due to lack of response.
I have the 'theodicy'.
And it starts with Genesis 1 and Isaiah 45:7
I love you Dr. Heiser but you are wrong about this. One key point that completely destroys this argument - foreknowledge, is what God knows WILL happen not what could happen. God constantly tells the Israelites, do this or else, don't do this or else. The situation with David is no different, if you stay here this will happen. It's a warning of what COULD happen not knowledge of what WILL happen.
Dr. Heiser is often dismissive of formal theology; but perhaps he should have paid more attention in Theology 101. The doctrine of the Infinity of God, states that God dwells in every point of time and space with the fullness of His being. Which in turn means, that from God's perspective, it is the creation, the incarnation and the eternal state, all at the very same time. Thus He does not "peer" into the future, nor does He "remember" the past as we do, because He is fully present in both. Hence, from His perspective, all that ever will happen, has already happened. Furthermore, He has known this from all eternity. Meditate on that for a while and the issue of predestination and freewill suddenly take on a whole different flavor.
That’s a very nice statement, however nothing you say proves Dr Heisers statement, based on Gods word, about foreknowledge by God of an event doesn’t mean it’s predestined. God said if this happens then this will happen. Those are Gods words. David heeded Gods advice & what God said would happen didn’t happen. Your argument has no merit in this instance.
For everything in life, there is either a "Cause" or an "Effect!" Therefore, Adam was placed here to render a given cause or to treat the conditions of an effect. When God "Caused" all the Angels, and Sons of God to come into fruition, NOT ONE of them Dropped the Ball like Adam did! That's a biblical fact! Plus, God created all of them in heaven, where everything was "Perfect!" Yet! all of that was denied Adam. Hense, Adam was placed here on earth, in physical bodies, to "Treat An Effect" that had happened prior to him coming into existence. Tree of good and Evil (THINK!) there is No Evil in heaven! So why was there one in the garden where Adam was placed! Think! there is no death in heaven! Thus! Adam purpose was to bring death into the world. Hasn't anyone ever read Psalms 58? The wicked are born from the womb WICKED! WHY? Why!? Why. Case in point! We all die like men all do! (Psalms 82: 6-7) (Hebrew 9:27)
Evil has hurt God. To bring Mankind out of sin, the guilt, the iniquity, the narcissism, death, Yeshua had to die and the Godhead relationship was broken. Eli, Eli Lema Sabachthani.
God's Consciousness suffers when we are in torment and cause torment to others. Sin torments God's Consciousness
*Predestination*
*Only God knows who what how and lf you will do what ls His Will
In the End of the age*
*lsaiah55:7-9*
*Righteousness comes from the Spirit of God Jesus Not from man*
Gerald Johnson Thats foreknowledge or prognoso
Predestination = predetermined
A prior destination set in place.
To determine before hand, to destine before hand. Like when somebody is about to take a trip to new york on a bus.
That bus 🚌 is predestined to go to New York.
@@johnathanpandullo604 *Sounds fair to me*
*like i said God knows all,and we know Nothing until God lets us know*
@@johnathanpandullo604 *But if the Bus crashes and you Die without Repentance you are destined to have taken the wrong Bus*
@@johnathanpandullo604
J P pre Ordained is like you said a bus ride you either have a ticket or No...Acts13:48 and Acts14:22... Your ticket is valid or invalid for that trip...
"Open Theists don't like predestination"
I can't speak for everyone, but based on my reading and debates, this is absolutely false.
Open theists just believe predestination is something else in Scripture. Not individual salvation
"God" ( the Demiurge ) created a "human" (humus(DIRT)man) after the likeness of "MAN".
"MAN" is a Divine Race of Being that emanates from the "Father/Mother" (Monad) in the
Pleroma ( Fullness )......aka the "Kingdom" of the Father.
"MAN" is primordial (before physical creation).
Humanity is a COPY, a counterfeit, made of physical matter (flesh).....a "shadow" of the True Man.
We were made as an "IMAGE" of the TRUE GOD, the Father that Christ (Jesus) came to reveal to us
2000 years ago......and for which He was murdered .
The "God" of this physical creation ( cosmos / "world" ) is NOT the Father of the Son (Christ).
THINK GNOSTIC !
In the case of the first example, was Dr Heiser suggesting that God did not know beforehand whether or not David was going to leave, and did not know whether or not the two statements would come to pass? If God knew that the two statements would not come to pass, then we see that Heiser's example is not actually addressing God's foreknowledge but rather is addressing God's statement. God's statement is to be contextualized. For Heiser's first example to be viable as he intended, requires excessive woodenness of interpretation, and is more a play on words and less an argument at all.
Knowing something is possible is not the same as knowing that in reality it is going to happen. God foreknows what is going to happen in reality and what is possible yet is never going to pass, and God knows which is which. The implications are very thoroughly understood in Church Theology (Reformed Theology).
The coupling of foreknowledge with God's role as Sole And Absolute Creator necessitates Predestination. It is true that foreknowledge does not alone necessitate predestination, but coupled with God's role as Sole And Absolute Creator, it does. This can be logically avoided, by having God's role as Creator be less absolute (in which case a lowercase "c" is in order at the beginning of "creator").
Letting the content be what it is, we come to the theology to which the Church reformed almost five hundred years ago now.
The "image of God" is likely sinlessness. Adam and Eve were made without sin, and their rebellion is to blame for sin entering in. Adam and Eve were made in the image of God, and their rebellions is to blame for sin entering in. Lord Jesus is the Express Image Of God; Lord Jesus is ever sinless. One may cite Genesis 9 to argue against this perspective, so I'll just clarify that I see that as God commanding against murder because He is going to reconcile humans back to His image, such that it is prophecy spoken in mystery to be revealed in the Gospel according to the words of the Lord on the Emmaus Road. If you do a study of all the mentions of God's image, I think you will find this perspective holds up to scrutiny.
In Reformed Doctrine, humans have genuine will such that it is a free will rather than the mere clockwork of something like robotics. That free will is enslaved to sin, until by God's grace we become persuaded that the Gospel is true, at which time we become slaves to Christ. We understand that slaves lack freedom in some sense, but they do not become robots. All the spiritual workings of reality come together to be rather detailed and complex, so let me not here in this comment get further into the weeds of technicalities of philosophy. Simply: Reformed Doctrine believes that God's deterministic role as Absolute Creator is the place from which God creates free-willed beings, such that by God's determinism the free will of the creature is not violated but rather by God's determinism the free will of the creature is established. The point here: Reformed Doctrine believes that humans have human freedom as established through God's determining means, which determination is an apparent fact of His divine attributes.
I do find Heiser's explanation of why there is evil to be correct. I do not find that to refute the doctrine which he has striven to refute; rather, I find it to be a point of agreement between Dr Heiser and reformed Church Doctrine.
This still brings us to the question of: why? Why not make a Humanity which never would have fallen?
Heiser has not answered this, yet an answer is due.
The answer simply is the Gospel. When God chooses to redeem Humanity rather than killing us all (as Dr Heiser described it), it is for that Gospel Purpose that God made the Creation subject to futility, not by the Creation's own will, but by reason of God who hath subjected the Creation in expectation, because the Creation itself also shall be delivered from the slavery of rottenness into the glorious liberty of the children of God, because we know that the whole Creation groans and travails in pain together until now". That wording, of "groans and travails", alludes to the painful process of childbirth. That is to say, the woman is glad to birth the child, yet it is painful to her, and so God is willing to create and preserve and reconcile humans, though He must suffer the existence of sin. This is all further fleshed out in the following three chapters of the Epistle To The Romans.
In summary:
There are three main failures of Heiser's arguments. First, is that Heiser does not address God's role as Sole And Absolute Creator. Second, is that Heiser relies on an unmentioned assumption that determinism is incompatible with humans each having a genuine will of his/her own, which assumption the reformed Church have thoroughly proven to be incorrect. Third, is that Heiser does not answer the question: why not make a Humanity which never would have fallen. The reformed Chruch have pointed to the Gospel as being the right thing for God to have done with the Creation, and of course the Gospel is God's mercy for sinners. No sinners: no mercy for sinners: no Gospel. The reformed Church Doctrine holds the Gospel up as God making His Character obvious in the person of God The Son the Lord And Savior Jesus Christ, and thus we hold it up as a most rightful thing and the ultimate expression of God's own glory. Simply put: the supposed Problem Of Evil is solved, and this was made obvious to Humanity two thousand years ago when the Lord Of Glory was crucified for our salvation. Any other answer to the Problem Of Evil, is an insult to the cross of Christ.
Um... David was predestined to ask and run instead of being killed. The argument that David had a choice is not valid with this excuse because we may think something is possible, but that doesn't mean we would have chosen differently. David was asking a "what if" question. His actions were still predestined by God.
Our "free will" is predestined.
I am not speaking ill of the dead, for I like Heiser, but he falls short a lot of times on his explanations of things.
For example, he says,beginning at 15:19, that he didn't obliterate anyone. Well....the flood.
Christian Universalism is the answer
The answer to what?
@@peterhallauthor
According to the Christian Universalist understanding of scriptures, all of Gods creation is predestined to be reconciled back to Him. The only difference is that only a few will be praised by God “well done my faithful servant”. These will be the ones called “great” in the kingdom (Matthew 5:19). The rest will go through the age lasting (incorrectly translated as “ever” lasting) correction before being forgiven, and reconciled. This will fulfill Gods word that Jesus came to save the world, and died for all. After all are reconciled, then Every knee shall bow, and Every tongue shall joyfully praise Him.
If universalism is the answer then you've asked the wrong question.
@@americaskitchentable107
Interesting that your message came to me at this moment, as I am at a theater watching “Show me the Father” 😊
@@americaskitchentable107
I’ve done extensive word studies in Hebrew and Greek. By understanding the Eschatology of scriptures, my total conclusion is that All of Gods creation Will be reconciled back to God ❤️
Stick to the ancient languages Mike. Biblical exegesis isn’t your thing.
I like Michael, but he is obfuscating his perception by imposing his dismissal of determinism on to the text of David and Saul which is what he claims reformed people do. You see, while God does have middle knowledge of abstraction and hypothetical from a sequential factual and counterfactual possibility, he determined what David would do , in this instance, by his very addressing of David. So within the randomness that would be Ultimate Reality without Gods orchestration (for randomness is the indeterminate or absence of God (ignorance)) the Bible is illustrating God's determinism by this very example... And Michael doesn't see it ...indeed completely calls it out right off of his tongue and is either dishonest (which I don't believe) or just absolutely has blinded himself (or God has blinded him... And the Spooky part is that it could be setting Michael up for some humility with his recent and deserved fame. God does exactly these types of things. I'm capturing this video because it's good to have in order to demonstrate one's own blind spot... even an astute scholar. I pray he and James White embrace, but Michael has his own ego as well, though very controlled and subtle.
Shalom
Siri, Alexa, hey Google ... Can you translate those first two sentences?
William Lane Craig can help you on you're calvinist Molinism: oh wait its from a Catholic Priest! Very eclectic of you!
you can't establish theology based on a narrative passage when there are dozens of prophetic and narrative passages that contradict you. scripture gives us example after example of prophecy that declare what will and does happen and scripture also gives us narrative (like Genesis 3, he will strike you on the heel compared to Acts 2, the crucifixion predestined by God) that illustrate God's foreknowledge, based on the certainty of God's future actions. this passage does not declare that we have free will, only that God knows what is in men's hearts. he is giving David information to allow him to make a decision. he says "They will turn you over" because that is how David framed the question, not because that is something that God thinks will certainly happen as some part of his incomplete foreknowledge that you claim. honestly this video is incomprehensible in the context of THE WHOLE BIBLE. he is not declaring a possible future in the same sense that he declares certain events like the judgment of Israel, or the birth and death of Jesus, or the end of all things. more arminian wishful nonsense
Incomprehensible to you maybe!
You can establish theology on absolutely _anything_ , given a sufficient supply of Koolaid.