Thanks for the informative video. We have a 10 year old Leaf that's done just under 100,000 miles (160,000 km) and it's still got 11 out of 12 bars. I would say that the main differences between these cars and ours are: (1) We usually only charge to 80%. There's a long life battery setting on the Menu -> Settings option to limit charging to 80%. (2) We have probably only charged around 3500 times rather than 6000 times. These cars are being charged way too often IMHO and are probably being charged to 100% too much. This may not be such as issue with newer EVs that have battery management - the first generation Leaf didn't have any.
Our local government here has Leafs. They are plugged in at all times except when being driven. So they might do 10 miles and then charge back to 100.%. it's fear of range by inexperienced EV drivers that causes this. My experience with Lithium Ion batteries in other equipment suggests the best charging routine is to not let them sit below 25% or above 80% for long periods. I charged my Leaf to 100% the night before a longer journey and then use it on shorter journeys till it gets down to 20-30%. Then I recharge it to 100% unless I know it's going to be sitting for a while. I have the Leaf E+ with the 62 kWh pack. This gives me 200 mikes guaranteed range (230 most of the time) so the number of charge cycles is lower than on a smaller pack for the same mileage. The heat is also spread across more cells and there is some evidence the degredation is not as fast on these cars. In the UK car dealers won't buy used Leafs and the prices have dropped through the floor. You can buy a 3 year old ex lease Leaf E+ at auction for a quarter of the new price.
Thanks The Leaf battery gets quite a hammering due to small capacity and limited cooling. My 60KWhr 126S1P LFP blade battery equipped Atto3 gets slow charged just once a week from around 20% to 100%. We rarely use fast charging, just occasionally on highway trips. Over the first 18 months battery capacity has increased slightly by about 5% (20km - we think due to deep cycle forming) but it now seems to have plateaued. I expect some degradation over coming years but no clear sign of that yet.
Really great presentation on what an electric car looks like after ~10 years. I’ve owned my own Tesla Model Y Perf EV for around a year now. I do long haul trips as well as my daily commute. At home I charge around once to twice per week, up to 90%. On road trips I will often charge to 95-100% to get the most range, which maxes out ~200 Miles @ 80 Mph & ~265 at 60-65 Mph. In my view, locally it beats my old ICE vehicle hands down. Long multi day trips, I need to add 2-3 hours per day for recharging, so I only do 5-600 mile daily segments. Overall I’m very happy with the EV transition and Tesla’s DC fast charging network, however I would like to see longer ranges and faster charging for Hwy driving in future EV’s.
Thank you very much, Mark. I really appreciate it. I appreciate all the hard work you put into it, and I like the graphic that shows all the stats . I keep my Nissan Leaf and around 50% it travels about 20 miles round-trip daily. It’s only been DC fast charged twice to about 85% and 100° weather but driven immediately. Thanks again for the great video. I’m gonna have to get that LEAF spy so I can give you more information in the future. 😁👍
We bought a 2017 30kw leaf last year, 54000 miles 2413L1/2 25 QCs. I guess the previous owner charged daily. We try to avoid charging everyday, especially if it's not being used for a long journey the next day. It only gets charged to 100% once or twice a week. SoH is holding steady at 82%
Hello Marc, Thank you so much for your channel. I'm planning to buy a new electric car in the coming weeks, and seeing your videos of older EVs tech still doing ok after so long is really reassuring. Longevity and range anxiety were my biggest concerns, but you've shown me it's not that bad. Thanks again!
Thanks Mark, great info, appreciated. We have a 2015 Leaf with 24KW'Hr battery and about 62,000 kms travelled. We charge the battery most days using a "slow" charger, plugged straight into the wall and the charging rate is about 8A. We have used the programming menu to limit the charge to 80%, and we seldom drain the battery below 30%. It has 9 out of 12 bars on the dash, and State Of Health is 72.6. It has had 100 quick and 2122 L1/L2 charges. We are happy with the Leaf for round-town shorter runs. We have a petrol driven car for longer trips.
It sounds like if you combine your two vehicles you would end up with my 2023 Mitsubishi phev has a 20 kwh battery what about 40 to 45 Mi of range for around town and then the hybrid for longer trips.
I work with industrial batteries, we expect 7 years out of each battery pack minimum. Our manufacturer battery life is rated at 1000 charges. We replace batteries when the loss exceeds 19%, in this case, when you lose 3 bars of 12. This was interesting, thanks.
@@wj9494 I predicted 14 years when these cars where new by that time you would need to have made enough saved money to buy a new battery but people ignore that cost.
@@IntradeMotors Nobody ignores that cost. We know that we will have to replace the battery if we will keep the car for the rest of our life. If the range is still enough for your everyday use you don't have to spend a penny. We know that battery's price will fall after 7-8-10 years when we will need another battery and the money we save just not going to the patrol station will be more than enough to replace the battery. The manufacturer of my EV sold the battery 16k when my car was new. Now I can find a refurbished battery for 5k installed. The new one now costs 8k. My battery is still at 92%, so I have a lot of time before I will even have to think about it.
@@chrishar110 Problem is when you do need a battery, a reburb is basically just putting in another slightly less old battery back.. and that is likely to fail within a few years... or if you go with a new replacement, the battery pack is more that the car is worth... so really the most cost effective option is to just scrap the car, or resell essentially a knackered car and just pretend your ok with that! Replacing a battery pack in a 2014 leaf for new, will cost more than just buying a lowish milage 2021 leaf second hand. Even a rerurb battery on a 2014, you'd be better off just reselling and adding the refurb battery cost together and just buying a newer model... Why would anyone spend 8k to keep a 10 year old car worth 5k on the road, if you can just buy a 3 year old 2021 replacement car with all the benefits of the newer model for the same money? And that's not adding any resell value of the 2014 in either. You can even still resell the 2021 replacement in a year or 2 and still not lose much cash too, but doing the repair on a 2014, your left with is a car worth 5k and also has all the wear and tear and other non related failures on the horizon from it's age. this is just talking about a leaf right.. but when we get to larger EV's, the replacement cost on longer range models with bigger batteries is closer to 25K! Worst I've seen was in Australia, where a replacement new battery pack for an Ionic 5 was quoted at $75K AU, that's the same as the retail price, just to replace the battery!
@@chrishar110 thing is my 16 year old 2008 ICE with 108000 miles hasn't needed a new engine, and with servicing is likely to easily reach 250k miles... also will still do the same 600 miles range on a tank... Maintained ICE's very, very, very, rarely require a complete engine replacement, how many petrol cars have you owned that required a new engine? Gaskets, air filters, spark plugs, sure... but lets be honest ICE's almost never need a new engine... millions and millions of 15 year old ICE cars running just fine, they aren't crippled range wise, and have their original motors... It was always rust (usually in the subframe) that was the factor most likely to kill a old ICE car... not the motor. Most EV's will reach end of their battery lifespans in 15 years, cells will fail, and in almost all cases, without exception, replacing the dead cells will cost more than the cars value, the lifespan of an ICE however was almost always was down to factors outside the motor, Bring on Carbon neutral fuels I say, keep old cars running,, not end up in a scrapped EV car wasteland, as they all are destined really without exception for scrappage once the batteries die.
One issue with LEAFspy for the L1/L2 total register is it can record two charges for one single event. This happens if you have a scheduled charge active where it records the initial plug in and very brief charge then stops and records the main event as another charge. So those 6000+ charges aren't necessarily accurate.
I recharge my 40 kWh everyday I use it but always set the timer that it limits the charge to 75 to 80% unless I am planning to go a longer distance the next day. I try not to charge when the battery is hot although there are times when on a day trip it is inevitable that you will charge a hot battery.
Are you manually calculating the charge time? Heard the 80% charge timer was dropping in the 2013 model year. At least in the summer I have a standing charge timer to limit charge to 80%, and avoid the peak electrical demand time in the evening. (2011 Leaf).
@@jamesphillips2285 One of the screens has a pic of a charging battery and it includes estimates of charging time to 50%, 75% and 100%, I just take the 75% estimate and add 10 minutes. Setting this adds about 30 seconds before exiting the car end of day. Most days I require approximately the same charge so I only need change the settings couple of times a week. Always start charging at 4:00 am so I just adjust the end time. If I calculate manually I assume it charges 16% per hour on a 6kw charger.
This doesn’t quite square with my experience with a used 2011 LEAF I bought from a Nissan dealer in 2014. The LEAF had 20K miles (32K km) when I got the car. I kept an eye on the car win LEAF Spy ( the pro paid version) and I charged to only 80% except the few times I wanted to get maximum range. The battey lost three more health bars in the three years and the 10K miles (16K km) I had the LEAF. When I sold the LEAF, it was down to estimating I could drive ~75 miles on an 80% charge. The battery in my LEAF was 41% depleted in just 30K miles. I know newer LEAFs have a so-called lizard battery which is supposed to stand up to temperature better, but that would not be the case for a 2012 LEAF. I am surprised that the 2012 LEAF in this video has that much battery life remaining after driving ~100K miles.
Hello, thanks for your comment. This particular car has spent most of its life in mild climates in the Pacific Northwest and Vancouver Canada. Never too hot. Never very cold. If you are in a warmer climate this may have impacted yours. Additionally I have noticed a quirk with these older Leafs. This one has been increasing the SOH the more I drive it, and I’ve been driving it to its limits (deeply discharging) for a few weeks now. If driven lightly and not a deep discharge it seems like the BMS gets out of sync with the battery capacity and mistakenly believes the capacity is decreasing. If you did 10k in 3 years I’m guessing you didn’t deeply discharge often. This one seems to creek up a tiny bit every couple days after I do a deep discharge. Just a guess. A quirk with this car at least.
@@GreenwayElectric Thanks for the detailed reply. You are correct, the LEAF was my secondary car. Of course it was somewhat limited by the modest range, so it was primarily used for in-town trips. I tried to keep the battery charge level between 20% and 80%. I never took the car so low it went into turtle mode. Even from a dealer the LEAF had a modest price as a used car and it was a good introductory EV learning experience.
Just for reference our 2013 leaf with 168,493 miles/271,163 km 9bars, 45.32 AmpHr, 69.29 SOH, 65.33 AmpHr new, 1 QC, 11,814 L1/L2 We live in Wisconsin, so it is cooler climate and until two years ago 95% of the time charged to 80% Now we charge to 100% daily often charging again during the day to make the next trip. I do have it set to be done charging right before it leaves in the morning so it doesn't sit full long, actually setting the depart time about 30 minutes after we really leave so it is often 98% or so.
An interesting if academic review of the performance life of this model. However, the overall usable range of the Nissan Leaf with a 40kW plant in it would be completely impractical at this point in its life. Even when new it wouldn't be much use on a motorway or any other medium range journey even in one direction.
Hello, I have an old Leaf, an 2014 bought new, only recently I acquirer LeafSpy, to be more exact a couple of years back. I really don't understand how the car counts those charger numbers, especially the L1/L2. With 239.524km and a total of 8483 charge session that would give me a 28.23km per charge. But having a 70km daily commute, and not charging on the weeks when I don't use the car. The numbers doesn't add up. I should have way more km per change than I have. Also checking the number of charges per year, as the car has 10,5 years, I would have made 807 charges per year. Simply not possible I don't charge twice per day and during vacation the car is not charged at all. So an average of 2.21 charges per day is simply impossible.
If you schedule your charge to a time other when the LEAF is plugged in it actually counts as two charges, in my case that is probably 99% of level 2 charges.
Time at high charge and temperature are indeed the parameters to measure. Shame no App logs this. The SOC bars are not equal - especially the first two are higher and represent range. Fast charging does no harm as long as temperature is well controlled (Recurrent Auto June 11, 2024). The bad chemistry chosen for the 24kW battery was panned by battery expert Dr Dahn. He has shown that NMC cells with 5 years of 1C 3-4.1v charge/discharge at 20C, have a life exceeding 6.5 million kilometers. ruclips.net/video/rOAYjcO6kao/видео.html
There are a good number of companies out there that will sell you a replacement battery and upgrades for these Leafs. Vivne is one example and they use CATL batteries. As Nissan made these cars over a number of years they produced a number of different batteries, Lizard was one.
12 years is ~ 4,380 days, so they charged that 2012 Leaf more than once a day, for 36 km/22 miles average driving distance per day. They were apparently topping up at every opportunity, probably at home overnight and also at work or at a shopping or other location. That's going to be hard on the battery.
It shows that these were not regular chargings, with only 26 km for one charge instead 260 promised Each topping lasts much shorter with max temperatures way below those happening at regular full charging as it is designed . It is profit for battery durability. This test is applicable for modest city use with access to charger at each request. Anyway calculating each such charging proportionaly to energy each would last in economy charging about 1 hr and it means 6000 hrs (240 days) not fit for using which is looks comparable to 240 days ICE in service.
All of the Leafs are passively air cooled. Cars with better cooling systems may treat the battery better. Newer and updated EVs should have some smarts in the in car charger that allows you to plug it in every time but limit the amount of charge to what you have setup. So keep in plugged in when not in use but never go over 70%, or whatever you set, and extend the battery life.
Depends on battery chemistry, Nissan Leaf old cars are nickel magnesium. Newer cars are Lithium iron phosphate and don't need the 20% to 80% charge rule and will last longer.
Always charged to 100%? This is the epitome of ABC (always be charging). Would SOH and capacity change if the battery was run top to bottom a few times (recalibrate)? Or, it’s too late to “improve” it?
How did they get charged so many times? the 2012 car could have been charged 2 times a day since 2012 and it wouldn't have been that many charge cycles>
I think it's terrible really, only being able to drive 50 miles in a about a decade old car... is not a positive. In another 2 or 3 years that may well be 30miles range, and replacing the battery on these old Ev's is out of the question as the replacements are what 4 times the value of the car. All these cheap low range EV's are all destined for scrap in just a few short years now. Planned obsolesce is literally built in, you cant tinker and fix older cars to keep them running any more, insurance companies already know they are scrap as soon as the first battery fault appears. Even if the whole engine was totalled on a combustion engine, you could still replace the entire engine and still make money on the resale. As a classic car lover, and still seeing 1950's and 60's small cars still running, then seeing a 10 year old EV with only 40k miles on it, only good for scrap, makes me sad. Not joking either... just the other day only on hoovies garage channel a fiat 500 EV with only had 40k miles, that drove fine, interior and exteriors was spotless... but they found the battery pack was knackered, as they said it's really only good for scrap... It used to be that kids learning to drive could only afford a 15 year old car as there first car, good luck in 10 years, as all they'll be left with for a small first car, is an old EV's that can only do 20-40 miles on a charge.
You can’t compare these 1st generation, 100 mile EVs without battery cooling with 2nd gen (ie Teslas) .. which started with 250 mile range. After 10 years and 225,000 miles I still have 87% battery and the car drives as new. It will be easy to get 300-400,000 miles out of my car the way it is going. The newest generation lithium iron batteries have been tested to last 4 million miles and 50 years or more by Jeffrey Dahn 2 years ago. No question where this is all going.
I'm assuming that this car was NOT charged from 0% to 100% 6578 times, rather, it was just plugged in and unplugged 6578 times, from one unknown SOC to a second, higher unknown SOC. Since battery degradation is related to the number of equivalent full cycles that the battery experiences, just having a huge number of (potentially) small charge events doesn't really tell us much. Though it is interesting.
He said that in the video, I agree it doesn’t give you much information about the length of time, I guess a better indication is the amount of km’s it has traveled, 159k km
Now I have not watched this video I got spammed by RUclips with your title charged 6000 times. Now simple maths would make it the year 2027 if they were charged every single day. By the way it’s 2024
I watched the video after my first post. I recommend you put a question mark to the 6000 recharge claim as this is exactly why electric cars have a bad name it was plugged in that many times not recharged is what that counter is and one is below your 6000 claim . I know clickbait sells but ev have a bad enough name it would be best practice not to throw petrol at a battery fire.
If they plug in 2 times a day, at home and at work or twice at home, especially on a 120/15 that would easily hit the 8 year mark. Plus a few days of multiple plug unplugs, this is not a surprising number for a modestly ranged vehicle. Maybe ask for information before judging?
They probably followed the ABC advice. (always be charging) The argument is, allowing the battery management system to maintain equal voltages between cells, especially at lower states of charge, due to different absorption charge rates from cell to cell. It also allows the BMS to maintain cell temperature in cold weather. In my opinion, these prolonged equalizing charges only need to be done once or twice a month. I agree with you, it's just not necessary to charge every day, unless you need the range.
Thanks for the informative video. We have a 10 year old Leaf that's done just under 100,000 miles (160,000 km) and it's still got 11 out of 12 bars. I would say that the main differences between these cars and ours are:
(1) We usually only charge to 80%. There's a long life battery setting on the Menu -> Settings option to limit charging to 80%.
(2) We have probably only charged around 3500 times rather than 6000 times.
These cars are being charged way too often IMHO and are probably being charged to 100% too much. This may not be such as issue with newer EVs that have battery management - the first generation Leaf didn't have any.
IIRC they dropped the 80% charge feature in 2013 model year.
Our local government here has Leafs. They are plugged in at all times except when being driven. So they might do 10 miles and then charge back to 100.%. it's fear of range by inexperienced EV drivers that causes this. My experience with Lithium Ion batteries in other equipment suggests the best charging routine is to not let them sit below 25% or above 80% for long periods. I charged my Leaf to 100% the night before a longer journey and then use it on shorter journeys till it gets down to 20-30%. Then I recharge it to 100% unless I know it's going to be sitting for a while. I have the Leaf E+ with the 62 kWh pack. This gives me 200 mikes guaranteed range (230 most of the time) so the number of charge cycles is lower than on a smaller pack for the same mileage. The heat is also spread across more cells and there is some evidence the degredation is not as fast on these cars. In the UK car dealers won't buy used Leafs and the prices have dropped through the floor. You can buy a 3 year old ex lease Leaf E+ at auction for a quarter of the new price.
Thanks
The Leaf battery gets quite a hammering due to small capacity and limited cooling.
My 60KWhr 126S1P LFP blade battery equipped Atto3 gets slow charged just once a week from around 20% to 100%. We rarely use fast charging, just occasionally on highway trips.
Over the first 18 months battery capacity has increased slightly by about 5% (20km - we think due to deep cycle forming) but it now seems to have plateaued. I expect some degradation over coming years but no clear sign of that yet.
Our 2014 Leaf has been driven 146,000km but still has 10 of the 12 bars of health remaining 🎉
Really great presentation on what an electric car looks like after ~10 years. I’ve owned my own Tesla Model Y Perf EV for around a year now. I do long haul trips as well as my daily commute. At home I charge around once to twice per week, up to 90%. On road trips I will often charge to 95-100% to get the most range, which maxes out ~200 Miles @ 80 Mph & ~265 at 60-65 Mph. In my view, locally it beats my old ICE vehicle hands down. Long multi day trips, I need to add 2-3 hours per day for recharging, so I only do 5-600 mile daily segments. Overall I’m very happy with the EV transition and Tesla’s DC fast charging network, however I would like to see longer ranges and faster charging for Hwy driving in future EV’s.
Thank you very much, Mark. I really appreciate it.
I appreciate all the hard work you put into it, and I like the graphic that shows all the stats .
I keep my Nissan Leaf and around 50% it travels about 20 miles round-trip daily.
It’s only been DC fast charged twice to about 85% and 100° weather but driven immediately.
Thanks again for the great video. I’m gonna have to get that LEAF spy so I can give you more information in the future. 😁👍
Thanks for the comments. There’s 2 versions of Leaf Spy. The “lite” is free. There is also a paid version.
We bought a 2017 30kw leaf last year, 54000 miles 2413L1/2 25 QCs. I guess the previous owner charged daily. We try to avoid charging everyday, especially if it's not being used for a long journey the next day. It only gets charged to 100% once or twice a week. SoH is holding steady at 82%
Hello Marc, Thank you so much for your channel. I'm planning to buy a new electric car in the coming weeks, and seeing your videos of older EVs tech still doing ok after so long is really reassuring. Longevity and range anxiety were my biggest concerns, but you've shown me it's not that bad. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Mark, great info, appreciated. We have a 2015 Leaf with 24KW'Hr battery and about 62,000 kms travelled. We charge the battery most days using a "slow" charger, plugged straight into the wall and the charging rate is about 8A. We have used the programming menu to limit the charge to 80%, and we seldom drain the battery below 30%. It has 9 out of 12 bars on the dash, and State Of Health is 72.6. It has had 100 quick and 2122 L1/L2 charges. We are happy with the Leaf for round-town shorter runs. We have a petrol driven car for longer trips.
It sounds like if you combine your two vehicles you would end up with my 2023 Mitsubishi phev has a 20 kwh battery what about 40 to 45 Mi of range for around town and then the hybrid for longer trips.
Very interesting video ! Thank you for sharing !
Very Informative...👍👍👍would you mind sharing the parts that you have replaced?...add more confidence on EV
I work with industrial batteries, we expect 7 years out of each battery pack minimum. Our manufacturer battery life is rated at 1000 charges. We replace batteries when the loss exceeds 19%, in this case, when you lose 3 bars of 12. This was interesting, thanks.
@@wj9494 I predicted 14 years when these cars where new by that time you would need to have made enough saved money to buy a new battery but people ignore that cost.
@@IntradeMotors Nobody ignores that cost. We know that we will have to replace the battery if we will keep the car for the rest of our life. If the range is still enough for your everyday use you don't have to spend a penny. We know that battery's price will fall after 7-8-10 years when we will need another battery and the money we save just not going to the patrol station will be more than enough to replace the battery. The manufacturer of my EV sold the battery 16k when my car was new. Now I can find a refurbished battery for 5k installed. The new one now costs 8k. My battery is still at 92%, so I have a lot of time before I will even have to think about it.
@@chrishar110 Problem is when you do need a battery, a reburb is basically just putting in another slightly less old battery back.. and that is likely to fail within a few years... or if you go with a new replacement, the battery pack is more that the car is worth... so really the most cost effective option is to just scrap the car, or resell essentially a knackered car and just pretend your ok with that!
Replacing a battery pack in a 2014 leaf for new, will cost more than just buying a lowish milage 2021 leaf second hand. Even a rerurb battery on a 2014, you'd be better off just reselling and adding the refurb battery cost together and just buying a newer model...
Why would anyone spend 8k to keep a 10 year old car worth 5k on the road, if you can just buy a 3 year old 2021 replacement car with all the benefits of the newer model for the same money? And that's not adding any resell value of the 2014 in either.
You can even still resell the 2021 replacement in a year or 2 and still not lose much cash too, but doing the repair on a 2014, your left with is a car worth 5k and also has all the wear and tear and other non related failures on the horizon from it's age.
this is just talking about a leaf right.. but when we get to larger EV's, the replacement cost on longer range models with bigger batteries is closer to 25K! Worst I've seen was in Australia, where a replacement new battery pack for an Ionic 5 was quoted at $75K AU, that's the same as the retail price, just to replace the battery!
@@sismith5427 do you buy a new engine for a 10-15 yo ICE car that worths 5k? Who can guarantee a used engine for 5 years?
@@chrishar110 thing is my 16 year old 2008 ICE with 108000 miles hasn't needed a new engine, and with servicing is likely to easily reach 250k miles... also will still do the same 600 miles range on a tank...
Maintained ICE's very, very, very, rarely require a complete engine replacement, how many petrol cars have you owned that required a new engine?
Gaskets, air filters, spark plugs, sure... but lets be honest ICE's almost never need a new engine... millions and millions of 15 year old ICE cars running just fine, they aren't crippled range wise, and have their original motors...
It was always rust (usually in the subframe) that was the factor most likely to kill a old ICE car... not the motor.
Most EV's will reach end of their battery lifespans in 15 years, cells will fail, and in almost all cases, without exception, replacing the dead cells will cost more than the cars value, the lifespan of an ICE however was almost always was down to factors outside the motor,
Bring on Carbon neutral fuels I say, keep old cars running,, not end up in a scrapped EV car wasteland, as they all are destined really without exception for scrappage once the batteries die.
Love this!
One issue with LEAFspy for the L1/L2 total register is it can record two charges for one single event. This happens if you have a scheduled charge active where it records the initial plug in and very brief charge then stops and records the main event as another charge. So those 6000+ charges aren't necessarily accurate.
I recharge my 40 kWh everyday I use it but always set the timer that it limits the charge to 75 to 80% unless I am planning to go a longer distance the next day. I try not to charge when the battery is hot although there are times when on a day trip it is inevitable that you will charge a hot battery.
Are you manually calculating the charge time?
Heard the 80% charge timer was dropping in the 2013 model year.
At least in the summer I have a standing charge timer to limit charge to 80%, and avoid the peak electrical demand time in the evening. (2011 Leaf).
@@jamesphillips2285 One of the screens has a pic of a charging battery and it includes estimates of charging time to 50%, 75% and 100%, I just take the 75% estimate and add 10 minutes. Setting this adds about 30 seconds before exiting the car end of day. Most days I require approximately the same charge so I only need change the settings couple of times a week. Always start charging at 4:00 am so I just adjust the end time. If I calculate manually I assume it charges 16% per hour on a 6kw charger.
Thank you very informative
This doesn’t quite square with my experience with a used 2011 LEAF I bought from a Nissan dealer in 2014. The LEAF had 20K miles (32K km) when I got the car. I kept an eye on the car win LEAF Spy ( the pro paid version) and I charged to only 80% except the few times I wanted to get maximum range. The battey lost three more health bars in the three years and the 10K miles (16K km) I had the LEAF. When I sold the LEAF, it was down to estimating I could drive ~75 miles on an 80% charge.
The battery in my LEAF was 41% depleted in just 30K miles. I know newer LEAFs have a so-called lizard battery which is supposed to stand up to temperature better, but that would not be the case for a 2012 LEAF. I am surprised that the 2012 LEAF in this video has that much battery life remaining after driving ~100K miles.
Hello, thanks for your comment. This particular car has spent most of its life in mild climates in the Pacific Northwest and Vancouver Canada. Never too hot. Never very cold. If you are in a warmer climate this may have impacted yours. Additionally I have noticed a quirk with these older Leafs. This one has been increasing the SOH the more I drive it, and I’ve been driving it to its limits (deeply discharging) for a few weeks now. If driven lightly and not a deep discharge it seems like the BMS gets out of sync with the battery capacity and mistakenly believes the capacity is decreasing. If you did 10k in 3 years I’m guessing you didn’t deeply discharge often. This one seems to creek up a tiny bit every couple days after I do a deep discharge. Just a guess. A quirk with this car at least.
@@GreenwayElectric Thanks for the detailed reply. You are correct, the LEAF was my secondary car. Of course it was somewhat limited by the modest range, so it was primarily used for in-town trips. I tried to keep the battery charge level between 20% and 80%. I never took the car so low it went into turtle mode. Even from a dealer the LEAF had a modest price as a used car and it was a good introductory EV learning experience.
Just for reference our 2013 leaf with 168,493 miles/271,163 km 9bars, 45.32 AmpHr, 69.29 SOH, 65.33 AmpHr new, 1 QC, 11,814 L1/L2
We live in Wisconsin, so it is cooler climate and until two years ago 95% of the time charged to 80% Now we charge to 100% daily often charging again during the day to make the next trip. I do have it set to be done charging right before it leaves in the morning so it doesn't sit full long, actually setting the depart time about 30 minutes after we really leave so it is often 98% or so.
An interesting if academic review of the performance life of this model.
However, the overall usable range of the Nissan Leaf with a 40kW plant in it would be completely impractical at this point in its life. Even when new it wouldn't be much use on a motorway or any other medium range journey even in one direction.
Hello, I have an old Leaf, an 2014 bought new, only recently I acquirer LeafSpy, to be more exact a couple of years back. I really don't understand how the car counts those charger numbers, especially the L1/L2. With 239.524km and a total of 8483 charge session that would give me a 28.23km per charge. But having a 70km daily commute, and not charging on the weeks when I don't use the car. The numbers doesn't add up. I should have way more km per change than I have. Also checking the number of charges per year, as the car has 10,5 years, I would have made 807 charges per year. Simply not possible I don't charge twice per day and during vacation the car is not charged at all. So an average of 2.21 charges per day is simply impossible.
If you schedule your charge to a time other when the LEAF is plugged in it actually counts as two charges, in my case that is probably 99% of level 2 charges.
@@gerhardk98 Yeah, that is probably it.
It might state as charge every time you slow down. Just a thaught. Try it.
Ty for breaking down leaf spy 😅
Time at high charge and temperature are indeed the parameters to measure. Shame no App logs this.
The SOC bars are not equal - especially the first two are higher and represent range.
Fast charging does no harm as long as temperature is well controlled (Recurrent Auto June 11, 2024).
The bad chemistry chosen for the 24kW battery was panned by battery expert Dr Dahn. He has shown that NMC cells with 5 years of 1C 3-4.1v charge/discharge at 20C, have a life exceeding 6.5 million kilometers.
ruclips.net/video/rOAYjcO6kao/видео.html
There are a good number of companies out there that will sell you a replacement battery and upgrades for these Leafs.
Vivne is one example and they use CATL batteries.
As Nissan made these cars over a number of years they produced a number of different batteries, Lizard was one.
12 years is ~ 4,380 days, so they charged that 2012 Leaf more than once a day, for 36 km/22 miles average driving distance per day.
They were apparently topping up at every opportunity, probably at home overnight and also at work or at a shopping or other location. That's going to be hard on the battery.
It shows that these were not regular chargings, with only 26 km for one charge instead 260 promised Each topping lasts much shorter with max temperatures way below those happening at regular full charging as it is designed . It is profit for battery durability. This test is applicable for modest city use with access to charger at each request. Anyway calculating each such charging proportionaly to energy each would last in economy charging about 1 hr and it means 6000 hrs (240 days) not fit for using which is looks comparable to 240 days ICE in service.
All of the Leafs are passively air cooled. Cars with better cooling systems may treat the battery better.
Newer and updated EVs should have some smarts in the in car charger that allows you to plug it in every time but limit the amount of charge to what you have setup. So keep in plugged in when not in use but never go over 70%, or whatever you set, and extend the battery life.
Ironically the older 2011/2012 Leafs have the charge limiting feature (80% or 100%). It was dropped for some reason.
Depends on battery chemistry, Nissan Leaf old cars are nickel magnesium. Newer cars are Lithium iron phosphate and don't need the 20% to 80% charge rule and will last longer.
All batteries need that rule, it doesn't hurt them so much as the Lion NMC and they need to charge up to 100% to calibrate the guessometer.
4,400 days in 12 years. 6,000 charges. 10 charges per 7 day week, or 2wise a day for 5 day week.
Charge cycle is not equal charge count. A cycle may take 5 charge counts if each time you charged 20%.
could show if there was a loss of power, for example doing a 0-60.

Always charged to 100%? This is the epitome of ABC (always be charging). Would SOH and capacity change if the battery was run top to bottom a few times (recalibrate)? Or, it’s too late to “improve” it?
How did they get charged so many times? the 2012 car could have been charged 2 times a day since 2012 and it wouldn't have been that many charge cycles>
I think it's terrible really, only being able to drive 50 miles in a about a decade old car... is not a positive. In another 2 or 3 years that may well be 30miles range, and replacing the battery on these old Ev's is out of the question as the replacements are what 4 times the value of the car.
All these cheap low range EV's are all destined for scrap in just a few short years now. Planned obsolesce is literally built in, you cant tinker and fix older cars to keep them running any more, insurance companies already know they are scrap as soon as the first battery fault appears.
Even if the whole engine was totalled on a combustion engine, you could still replace the entire engine and still make money on the resale. As a classic car lover, and still seeing 1950's and 60's small cars still running, then seeing a 10 year old EV with only 40k miles on it, only good for scrap, makes me sad.
Not joking either... just the other day only on hoovies garage channel a fiat 500 EV with only had 40k miles, that drove fine, interior and exteriors was spotless... but they found the battery pack was knackered, as they said it's really only good for scrap...
It used to be that kids learning to drive could only afford a 15 year old car as there first car, good luck in 10 years, as all they'll be left with for a small first car, is an old EV's that can only do 20-40 miles on a charge.
You can’t compare these 1st generation, 100 mile EVs without battery cooling with 2nd gen (ie Teslas) .. which started with 250 mile range. After 10 years and 225,000 miles I still have 87% battery and the car drives as new. It will be easy to get 300-400,000 miles out of my car the way it is going. The newest generation lithium iron batteries have been tested to last 4 million miles and 50 years or more by Jeffrey Dahn 2 years ago. No question where this is all going.
Car wizard fixed that fiat.
6000 charges to go 160000km? - that maths doesn't add up.
I do not believe that at all what are they doing charging it every day?? Something is not adding up???
I'm assuming that this car was NOT charged from 0% to 100% 6578 times, rather, it was just plugged in and unplugged 6578 times, from one unknown SOC to a second, higher unknown SOC. Since battery degradation is related to the number of equivalent full cycles that the battery experiences, just having a huge number of (potentially) small charge events doesn't really tell us much. Though it is interesting.
He said that in the video, I agree it doesn’t give you much information about the length of time, I guess a better indication is the amount of km’s it has traveled, 159k km
Now I have not watched this video I got spammed by RUclips with your title charged 6000 times. Now simple maths would make it the year 2027 if they were charged every single day. By the way it’s 2024
I watched the video after my first post. I recommend you put a question mark to the 6000 recharge claim as this is exactly why electric cars have a bad name it was plugged in that many times not recharged is what that counter is and one is below your 6000 claim . I know clickbait sells but ev have a bad enough name it would be best practice not to throw petrol at a battery fire.
If they plug in 2 times a day, at home and at work or twice at home, especially on a 120/15 that would easily hit the 8 year mark. Plus a few days of multiple plug unplugs, this is not a surprising number for a modestly ranged vehicle. Maybe ask for information before judging?
To determine the end of a battery's useful life, normally in laboratories it is considered when it reaches 80% SoH.

They probably followed the ABC advice. (always be charging) The argument is, allowing the battery management system to maintain equal voltages between cells, especially at lower states of charge, due to different absorption charge rates from cell to cell. It also allows the BMS to maintain cell temperature in cold weather. In my opinion, these prolonged equalizing charges only need to be done once or twice a month. I agree with you, it's just not necessary to charge every day, unless you need the range.