Thanks mate, sadly because I don't 100% bend over for CA/Sega to constantly praise every action they take and point out glaring flaws I'm a "hater" in some fans eyes.
I know they're chaos but I think even the chaos gods would be appalled at the ai's deployment and I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the clipping. The chariots too, so many rome II flashbacks.
You pointed out so many things in advance, terrific! I do miss the more technical TW games, what did save this franchise was its fantasy allure galore. It is fun if thought as an arcade TW in a fantasy setting.
just to reinforce what Nasmr is saying, if you look at the minimap and compare this with Rome 2 or Empire AI and a battle at a similar stage, early just before the clash, there really is no difference in the AI formation. to quote Reynold Sanity, " strategy equatable to a bum rush and whose tactical mindset can best be characterized as "Oh Fuck it" "
+Battler Evil Thanks! Currently writing up a video that says what total war can do to improve greatly. There is a lot of "THIS SUCKS" arguments (or "THIS IS GREAT FUCK YOU THEY CAN DO NO WRONG" arguments evidentaly) but I don't think people are really looking into what could be better in depth.
Nasmr Yeah, i absolutely hate when people protect a company, as if they owe them something, you pay for their game anyway ffs... criticise stuff what needs to be taken care off and not go around laughing:it is just a game cmon..'' Yeah that is what i liked about you, and i shall stay subscribed to you :)
I liked to watch how one unit of halberdier was fighting vs enemy blob of 3+ units. All the time i saw only how blobs were running around and fighting...No formations, nothing at all, just bigger and better blob wins....And dont tell me thats ok, because this game is not historical. I would love to see video how AI attacking in the siege mode, not defending...But i think, they not going to show us. :D
+Ulrich von Hermann Yup...the enemy is going for a "EVERYONE HIT CENTER MASS, IGNORE THE FLANKS AND THEY'LL CRUMBLE AND TOTALLY NOT ENVELOPE US...RIGHT!?!?!" tactic.
Funny how they said they need the funds for the team who built the chaos dlc, then they give it for free??? That doesnt make any sense at all. Ca are full of shit. I'm gonna laugh my head off reading all the bad review on steam 2 weeks after release, because this game will be a Dlc goldmine.
LITTLEBLUE PRODUCTIONS Its pretty funny you were right, none of the dlc has been substantial yet either. one race pack and then just tons of micro transaction units that should have been in the base game lol
Nasmr I own all the TW games, but i didn't buy this game because of what they did with the chaos dlc. It's a huge part of the game and they took it out to sell it back to ppl. I'm gonna wait until a big steam sale to buy it.
can I get an explanation as to why you think the combat is like Rome 2's? Cause right now I'm no seeing it. I mean I can see Attila maybe(but the again I didn't play it that much so idk) but Rome 2? I just don't see it man.
You raise some really good points. Unfortunately the total war series has always been plagued with clipping and bad A.I.. The clipping is deff an engine problem and it is sad that they haven't spent the resources to build a new engine. As for the bad A.I. I know its going to be bad I just hope that it's at least slightly better than previous titles. Also from what I heard they're separating chaos into two factions so the more unique monsters will probably be in the Chaos Demons faction. I hope the bad graphics and shitty textures are just due to them running it on lower graphics on a slightly old build.
I accept that it's on lower settings...but that just raises more questions. WHY is it on lower settings?! Their rigs are pretty beefy I recall. Is it once again going to be unoptimised as all hell AGAIN and run like dog shit while we have to endure and wait on patches over the following months? I keep stressing to TW fans we can't accept this as the standard and it's not okay just because they've done this before. Their response? dislike, make no argument, call me a "hater". It's sad really.
***** actually I made constant legitimate arguments. YOU were the one who went "NUH UH. UR AUTISTIC. CA SAID OTHERWISE " Then when I had to press you for evidence they did in a 30+ long comment thread all you did was link me to a bunch of videos youtubers did. THEN when I pointed out how even then some of the videos don't even support your claim you said "nothing will ever make u happy!!!!" You make general vague statements and are pretty hypocritical in accusations of baseless arguments
***** "I know I was rude and acted really aggressively against ya yesterday" Alright that's cool, glad we can step down from a position of shit slinging. I'm making videos that's what I genuinely think, I have just been fairly fed up of people beating around the bush, handling CA with child gloves, treading gingerly around the core of the issue so to speak a few idioms. To me, THAT is what seems forced, that people don't want to rock the boat. I was constantly waiting for someone to kick in the fucking door, go "THAT'S BULLSHIT, HERE'S WHY, BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS" and a few videos did it....but moments later CA would throw a "oooooh look! shiny shiny" unit spotlight video and suddenly all is forgotton and forgiven. So I decided fuck it, I'll give it a shot and it's gotten a fair portion of the people who viewed these past two videos to step back, assess, and go "haaaaaaang on...that IS bullshit!" Hell, even you said I raised a good few points amirite?! I'll still call out what I think is cool in the game like I said in the video environments, flying units, and the artillery all look wicked. But I still need to remain grounded and not ignore the flaws I see because I saw some good stuff and easily give in to the "ahhh I'll give it a pass this time" mentality Now I like to believe I'm straight forward and to the damn point with my replies. No nonsense shit. So I can see how people take it as an attack on them but I've never mudslung unless aggressed first. and never will. The main problem is text can never truly convey emotion so if you heard me say it it'd come across very different to how it looks in writing. But ti's something I can't control there. Peoples interpretations and all. But yeah, give me a chance, I'm really new with my past videos before "why I'm skeptical" were merely familiarising myself with video recording and editing. I'm still trying to find my rythem and audience and I think I'll eventually get it.
+The Warmonger The textures are indeed a matter or personal expectations, for me they are ok, not amazing but not bad either, the clipping is just something that is hard to get rid of entirely the worst case I saw was the Pegasus wich looked like they didn't even try, Light Wizard's whole legs goes right trought the wing at all times. The units sizes tho are pathetically small, and yes I know that in tabletop strong units come in small squads but that's why we want a TW game about it, to experience the grand scale we read about in the lore and books and its not just about Demigryphs other units are also small, only 160 zombies? 120(!) goblin archers? 120 orc boyz? those are units that are supposed to have strenght in numbers and I don't see those numbers.
***** In at least one of their videos they said they are playing on max settings and I haven't seen any unit above 160 man so I doubt it, as for the game overall it looks really not fun to play, there are too many dumb design decisions so I'm definitely not bying it, mayby in far future on some dirt cheap sale preferably on Humble Bundle so that I can choose not to give a penny to CA/Sega.
Yes I have to agree Master Darren does look to be holding back quite a bit here and in some other fights as well I assume its orders doing what he is told and all that. As for the whole hounds issue Chaos have always had hounds and no list is complete without a unit or two it really is the chaos equivalent of fast cavalry any tabletopper knows that. You cant really complain about Chaos and vampires having Hounds that look similar lots of factions have Nightly orders and we except those Chaos and undead would have a difficult time taking out arty units and flanking and all those other uses that make light cavalry invaluable. We all know how hard it is to use an army with no fast or light cavalry so to me Chaos hounds are totally justified even if they look similar to vampire units. The Clipping issues you pointed out however are more valid points and one I agree with. Thank you for raising the whole foot sinking issues I have been trying to get that point across myself nobody seems to have noticed it at least they have not been vocal about it yet. Check out the Dwarf siege vids they are really bad. this could be an early version though so hopefully this wont be an issue in the final game. So much work to do CA so little time and no I don't think it will all be finished before release.
Both of them having dogs isn't a massive issue, but I point it out more to show how races aren't going to be massively different from each other and will use a lot of the same assets. I'm doing that because a lot of people are saying it's okay to have such a small amount of races because each race is going to feel and look unique...when it likely isn't going to feel any vastly different than switching from Rome to parthia
I agree with you that the ai is bad ( though personally idc since it's been bad since Medieval 2) but I don't see how the combat looks like rome 2. Idk maybe i'm just not looking hard enough but I don't see anything like kill moves.
it looks like the graphics are far from perfect, but could that be because this game has a ton of information to be processed, it has so many different soldiers and it is a vast terrain, could it be that we don't have the technology to handle this quantity of information yet, or are there comparable games which are currently available which do pull off the good graphics with this amount of soldiers and land?
I would just like to pull apart your points you are making as they are very poor. when Archaon the everchosen chased down the celestial wizard I thought that was good AI as he was single out weak guy and your point about just getting the wizard to pull him into trap is pretty lame. its not 7 chaos against one empire unit its more like 6 against 2 units nothing wrong with that tactic sorry. The way the chaos charged into battle what's wrong with that what would you have them do march slowly in orderly way while getting smashed to death by cannons if they had done that you would have complained about that as well I expect. As for the clipping I didn't notice that until you pointed it out and yes its a good point but most people like me not gonna notice it as we got more important things doing like enjoying the game.
Using your most high valued general isn't a good tactic though. Any one with moderate experience in total war is going to be able to bait generals out easily from the safety of their army this way and trap them. again it WAS like 6 or 7 units. then 4 or 5 broke off when it saw the demigryphs and a huge section of the chaos infantry went on a wild goose chase that, If properly utilised, can be done to break the enemy piece meal. so all you have to do is get a high priority unit of demigryphs and set them to run past and all the way to the back of the map and these idiots would follow while you destroy the rest of their army. and lol. "yeah there's major graphical glitches and fuck ups...but I didn't notice it so that makes it okay!!!!" Doesn't fly. They clip all through themselves and each other and it's daft
You made some good points I hadn't spotted about face graphics etc. But you also made some points that made completely no sense and makes me question how much you know about the Warhammer world and the lore. I don't know a whole lot but I know the basics at least... 1. Why demigryph units are only 24? Because they are very very rare in the universe, only the best of the best can train and ride them so it would make no sense to have large units sizes of them. Also you complain about lack of uniqueness, well here is a cavalry unit thatthat does NOT have a large unit size like the othersand then you complain about that... 2. The point of mounted heroes or flying units when they can only fight on ground; can you honestly not think of a useful reason? A flying wizard can still cast spells from the air, you can fly over units and attack from the rear, you can fly over walls or other obstacles on the map, you can fly behind enemy lines to attack the artillery and so on, there are tons of new options! If the flying unit could attack from the air it would be too OP against armies with little or no ranged units. 3. You say there is little uniqueness in army rosters between evils factions and between good ones, only one of two unique units rest are reskins....seriously? The only reskin of dwarven units are the ones manning the hellfire cannon (which is good vs evil too even and they are just flavour, the cannon itself is the main unit). Only reskin of orc units are trolls and giant. There so SO many unique units in each army roster. For example: Greenskins: Goblin Doom Diver, Arachnarok, Wolf Riders, all the orc infantry (at least no reskins) and the night goblins. Empire: Steam Tank, Luminarch, Demigryphs, Hellblaster Volley, Hellstorm Battery, Pistoliers, Outrider Grenade Launchers, all the different wizards. Vampire Counts: Fell Bats, Terrorgheist, Varghulf, Vargheists, Cairn Wraiths, Hexwraiths, Crypt Ghouls...etc..basically no vampire unit is represented in Chaos or other evil factions? I won't even bother to go on you're just way way wrong on this. A few units are reskinned, most are definitely not. Sure you could say infantry is infantry with just different models but that's just kidna dumb. There are still tons of variation within the infantry (for example Cairn Wraiths and Savage orc or Crypt Horrors and Marauders are all extremely different between each other). Chaos doesn't have demons and other such things because that is a different army roster that will come out later, not Chaos Warriors. They just follow the lore. Plus there are units not shown here that are very unique, like Shaggoths and CHaos Dragonw ith two heads each with their own unique breath attack.
+Roger Carhult FINALLY SOME CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Alright let me tackle this! "1. Why demigryph units are only 24? Because they are very very rare in the universe, only the best of the best can train and ride them so it would make no sense to have large units sizes of them. Also you complain about lack of uniqueness, well here is a cavalry unit thatthat does NOT have a large unit size like the othersand then you complain about that..." It's a fair point that they are Rare in the universe, but at the same time the empire still needs to field...you know...actual ARMIES to combat the forces of evil that surround them. Regular cavalry needs to be back to it's original state of 108 like in Rome 1 and demigryphs at 60 (fine with shock cav at 80). Also make them hard and expensive to recruit in campaign (and take ages to replenish) to more accurately represent how valuable they are. It kind of fits in to a video I'm planning on what total war needs to do to become awesome, I'll actually use the demigryph knights as an example as you just shown me they are a prime one to use! "2. The point of mounted heroes or flying units when they can only fight on ground; can you honestly not think of a useful reason? A flying wizard can still cast spells from the air, you can fly over units and attack from the rear, you can fly over walls or other obstacles on the map, you can fly behind enemy lines to attack the artillery and so on, there are tons of new options! If the flying unit could attack from the air it would be too OP against armies with little or no ranged units." I didn't really exand on that point as it was unscripted/ranty (check my description box). But I'd like to do just that here. Flying mounts could really be exanded with gameplay depth if they did strafe runs. Knocking down enemy units which opens them to heavy fire or cav charges on the ground to mop them up makes sense. Now you're right that flying mounts help big time to getting to point B fast to cast spells. But that use should really be for primarily magic users. The big tough melee specialist guys like karl franz would be more useful as strafe runners. It could have it's own trade off in that it doesn't achieve many kills but obviously slows the enemy advance while you're positioning the rest of the army and keeps him safe (minus ranged attack, which should actually rek ALL flying units...kind of like elephants), where as landing down and getting him into the thick of it could wreck but open him up to getting swamped. Because what I'm saying is the assets are already there, the swoop down and knockdown effect, all you got to do is add that extra part were the mount swoops back up in a flying arc. "3. You say there is little uniqueness in army rosters between evils factions and between good ones, only one of two unique units rest are reskins....seriously? The only reskin of dwarven units are the ones manning the hellfire cannon (which is good vs evil too even and they are just flavour, the cannon itself is the main unit). Only reskin of orc units are trolls and giant. There so SO many unique units in each army roster. " All it comes down to mate is the simple mechanics. When you boil it down it's just; Spears, swords, light + heavy cav, skirmishers, artillery. Flying mounts and monsterous units are genuinely new and add a new aspect to the game but every army has a flying mount and every "evil" army has monsterous that have the same use as shock troopers. Hell, look at the LoTR and call of warhammer mods. ACTUAL reskins of units created whole new fantasy armies from "ordinary" human armies. I'm not necessarily saying this is a negative thing, after all it is a game and has to follow rules, but it's more a counter argument to people saying it's justified for less factions because "they're not factions, they're whole new races that aren't just boring humans all the time!!!" When the reality will be jumping from empire to chaos will be no more game changing than jumping from Eastern Roman Empire to the Huns...and can you imagine if Attila only had four factions?!?!? And yeah, it's true that chaos will probably have a "chaos beasts and daemons" dlc...but don't you think thats complete bullshit?!?!? So not only do you have to pay 39.99 for the game (AND potentially extra for the chaos faction)...but you have to pay AGAIN to get the complete roster of that faction?!?! That's ludicrus. It would have made waaaaaaaaaaaay more sense to have the chaos warriors as part of the base game...then the daemons as the pre-order exclusive. It still would have been a fairly bitter pill to swallow, but I don't think it would have caused the outrage we saw. And finally yeah, my knowledge of warhammer is pretty damn rusty. I used to do the 40k tabletop a LOT with a huge tyranid army at my disposial. I plan to brush up on TRUE warhammer fantasy (not that age of sigmar horror show) so I guess that's one positive I can at least give the game is my revived interest. But still, it's just more or less just forgetting the names of things as I can justify my thoughts on the demigryphs. What I would like to point out though is I really hate how cheap CA are being, Constantly flip flopping their bad decisions from "WE WANT TO FOLLOW THE LORE" but then when it doesn't follow the lore they change their tune to "WELL WE NEED GAMEPLAY!" Seems seriously cheap and I think Arch warhammer called them out on that bullshit in his regional occupation video
Nasmr Ok here is my reply to your reply ;) 1. I still don't agree with you, 60 instead of 80 is still way too many for a rare unit. They are very powerful even with only 24 in a stack as each of them has a ton of hp so I think they're fine, plus if there should be any true variation there should be some cavalry with a low unit size and then demis are perfect for that. You can't complain about lack of variety and then argue for less of it. The Empire most likely have ways to deal with the Chaos, one thing is magic for example. Darren was just a bit unlucky with the spells and he also didn't micro the army very well. Plus he had no steam tank which probably would be much more of a help than the Luminarch. 2. Ok I get what you mean and yes it would be a cool effect, but I wonder if you're not able to achieve the same effect with some microing alreadfy. If you "run" from a fight with a mounted unit I am pretty sure he would fly up in the air again. Just like you can use cavarly to charge over and over again, so could you use the flying units for the same thing and sort of achieve a swoop effect. But we'll see. 3. I think you generalise way too much to try prove a point that doesn't really exist. You say: "All it comes down to mate is the simple mechanics. When you boil it down it's just; Spears, swords, light + heavy cav, skirmishers, artillery. Flying mounts and monsterous units are genuinely new and add a new aspect to the game but every army has a flying mount and every "evil" army has monsterous that have the same use as shock troopers." Apart form that you forget about magic and also new effects such as fear and terror and acid biles, poisons, vulnerability to fire etc, which are totally new mechanics as well (afaik, I have never played a TW game before), basically you say "all games are all the same, it's about having a unit kill another unit". Sure every army have some sort of infantry but like I already pointed out there are very big variations between the races' melee units. Dwarves don't have the swords+spear units at all. They also don't have the light+heavy cavalry. The undead have ethereal units which are completely different than other melee units for example and they cannot flee but instead crumble. They have zombies that are suuuper slow and weak, do you have such an equivalent in previous TW titles? They also have only one flying unit which is totally different from normal flying units. Empire doesn't have flying units either unless you count mounted heroes which is not the same thing really. This game has so much more and new mechanics than previous TW titles as far as I can tell. At least 10 completely new mechanics if not more. Then you also have the magic items and quest chains and powerful heroes you want to put in the midst of the battle on top of it all! Pretty much every race has it's own new and unique play style both on campaign map and on the actual battle field. As for the Daemons DLC you don't know this will be the case at all. They could be one of the races included in the expansion so I don't get what you're winded up about. ANd a DLC is only gonna be like $7 so what's the deal? It's less than a friggin' lunch and will add hours and HOURS of joy with unique quest chains, game play and all that. AND seriously, Chaos warriors ARE a part of the base game. How can you ignore this fact when you just saw a video of it? If you wanna play them then preorder them so WHY keep beating the dead horse. You are already clearly gonna get the game anyway so what is really your point of this complaint?
Roger Carhult This one's on the phone...so the reply might nonot be as great as my screens small so it's hard to go through each paragraph piece by piece. It'd be a GOOD thing if there was 60...maybe 45... of them with a ton of HP. Because as we can see, and as more youtubers come out with videos also not liking this video, these battles are quick. Like way too quick. 7 minutes for full 2-3k stack armies duking it out. Anything that helps add length to more like 16 minutes of a battle this scope is a good thing (along with upping the health and armour of most other units). To be honest though I think this is more our personal preferences. So hopefully modding unit sizes will still be easy without the workshop (which, again, bullshit.) So we can all achieve that sweet spot we like. 2) Possibly you'll be able to cycle charge. But we all know how "great" TW can be when it comes to disengaging where the unit turns around to disengage...then turns right back around to get back in the fight giving it a good few seconds of just sponging hits. I think it'd just be nice to have the two options for more depth. 3. Sorry, but it really is that simple. The game always comes down to the meta. Which is two blocks with stats colliding and a algorithm working out whose the winner based of those stats. Anything else like the race or species of the unit, it's height or attack animation is purely superficial. This is extremely apparent if you check out maximus' channel or play competitively. Again, I'd like to stress this is NOT a bad thing and I'm not striking total war off for this. It's a game and needs rules. But it was more a counter to the argument that changing race is going to feel revolutionary therefore it's okay we got only four races because of how different they'll play. The game plays different when you change starting location and have a campaign system that's dynamic. For example you'll change your style big time if it turns out a nomad faction is dominating in your playthrough instead of a barbarian faction this time. But they've taken BOTH of those away with limited races and that terribad occupational system that will pit you against the same faction over and over and over. Also I meant chaos aren't part of the base game in that they aren't playable. So they should have made them playable...then had the daemons as pre-order incentive. Still wouldn't have got it lel but the backlash would have been softened
1. increasing unit size of demis is a poor way to achieve longer battles, it would take away one thing that is unique about them. If you want longer battles (and I am a bit with you on this) then just lowering the overall damage by say 15% across the line of every unit and magic spell would do the trick. Changing unit sizes is a way worse thing to do it because it needs a lot more balancing. 2. Well I agree with you on this one sort of. It could be a nice feature. But possibly it would be OP against some races that are heavily relying on strong melee units. Use the swoop together with magic to stall units and it can become very frustrating to play against and combat should be fun, not frustrating. 3. No it's not this simple at all, you say it is because you want to make your point but you refuse to counter all the arguments I brought up that proves you are wrong. By your logic all FPS agmes are the same, because you play in first person. And all RTS games are the same, because you play in real time strategy,...but they're not. Starcraft have 3 VERY unique places that all play very different. All units have hp and can do damage yes, but it's just redicilous to narrow it down to just that and say they're all the same. Same goes with these races. I also gave you examples how even melee units play very differently between the races. You simply cannot compare zombies or etherealto regular swordsmen, and then you have fear, poison and terror too. The magic adds a whole new dimension where it also simply isn't all about damage either. You have curses, healing and also frreeze effects where you can stop a unit from moving. All these allow for a much much larger choice of tactical decisions. On the campaign map again you have a ton of unique play style, the unit recruiting of Vampire Counts is very different from the dwarves, and you have corruption effects and so on. It IS okey we only got 4 (or 5) races because they ARE very unique. You haven't made a single point as to why they are not other than saying they aren't and it's all about pitching a unit against another. Well if it is only about that, then what did you expect when they said they would all be unique and different, really? Did you expect a race would not be about units and damage and battles at all, or what? No regional opccupation and unique start locs for every hero doesn't change that fact so that is not an argument on this specific matter. Stating that it is the sarting location and ability to paint the map your color that is the only thing that can truly diverse races....I can just say....really?? Using your arguments, I can say that is just something superficial. Conquering area X is not different than conquering area Y. Yet you think it is. But you don't think the races themselves are different or unique. I really don't understand your reasoning at all here.. To me you just sound a bit bitter about regional occupation and take it out on everything else. And are you claiming you're not getting the game and wouldn't even if Chaos was included? Then you make even less sense. Why bother to follow the game at all then? Anyone who likes what they see, have no reason to not preorder when you can get a steam refund. To me complaining about Chaos DLC is just pointless whining because of this. And Daemons as a preorder would just delay the game a LOT more. They have totally unique models that would be needed to be done, they would also have to have a place on the map and requiring balancing thereof, and their own campaign. You don't seem to understand how much extra work all of this would require. And still if they did that, people would still complain about cut content. There are too many ppl who complain and lack any kind of perspective. When CA show scirpted battles people complain about that, when they show let's play they complain that the battles aren't scripted with zoomed in battles....and so on. The Bickering Bunch complained that this video did not show it from the Chaos' perspective, and then a minute later he said he wish CA will focus on the base game and not show DLC stuff before the release that isn't in the base game. Those two things are completely contradictory but is just one of the many examples of hypocrisy by the "whiners".
Roger Carhult Again, Cavalry being larger would be a part of the fixing of the problem. It was perfect at 108 like in Rome 2 and then special cavalry like demigryphs would be 60...nearly halved so more than making up for it. Putting them at a measly 24 really makes no sense unless they were super strong which doesn't seem to be the case as they got done over by melee units in this video(not spear infantry...axes and swords which they're supposedly strong against) It really wouldn't take much balancing of the stats at all. Just like how pike infantry needed to be 240 (on largest settings) in Rome 2 because of the nature of pikes. (Just like rome 1) And that wouldn't have made them perfect with no tweaks what so ever. 2. That's the counter to strong infantry then. Just like elephants are in regular TW. and then the counter to that is skirmishers. It's all one big rock paper scissors. I know the vamps don't have skirmishers...but that's the fault of the devs not putting them in the rosters. Even basic skeleton archers would do (or just use your giant flying units to block them I guess) 3. Still believe it's basic stats and algorithms. Like you said the difference between a zombie and a imperial swordsmen right? That's the stats! The unit speed and attack/health. Just like a armoured legionary is different from a mlg freeman. It's all about the stats of the unit dude. Anything else is purely cinematic. Look at the rise of mordor mod for more of a grasp on what I'm trying to convey. They can make orcs, uruk hair and all sorts of fancy full "races" out the assets of just the normal "human" factions of total war. That's what these races are. Just take the stats and modify them and give them a zombie or dwarfern model and animation! Now the magic will be pretty different that's true. But in all honesty I don't see it being THAT unique. Now give me a chance before you jump down my throat. General abilities. Rome 2 already introduced general abilities. With stat buffs or debuffs. This game just now makes them a offensive tool. Which is pretty new and cool. But...not as big a deal as I think people are making out. Not revolutionary anyway. Also it's very different having different locations to take, taking on all and every faction. It's not so much the city, as they're all very samey, but the type of faction you fight. I know I said in the end it boils down to the stats...and it is. But I'd argue the stat changes/disparity of Rome 2 is going to be greater than warhammer. Why? Well rome 2 has Latin culture- with its emphasis on stats being heavy bulky infantry that will cut down infantry FAST...but weak to cavalry. Greek- with its tanky phalanxes but weak cav and phalanxes having no real killing power. Need to utilise the very strong skirmishers Persian- SHOCK CAV ON STEROIDS BRUH...weak to Latins heavy infantry if the shock cav can be countered tho Nomad- Will wear you the fuck down with 10,000 cuts and bites that is the horse archers. But if you got strong skirmishers and spears you won't fair well. Germanics- CHARGE BONUS FER DAYS. Very low armor tho so prolonged fight is bad. In Rome 1+2 you had multiple factions for each culture there. And the campaign allowed for dynamic happenings so you didn't know which culture would thrive and be your rival when you started...could be barbarians nervii...could be Persian. And like I explain you have to change your tactics depending on what faction as the stats were radically different. What's warhammer? Empire - good infantry good cav and good artillery. Has very powerful offensive spells Dwarves - good infantry and food artillery. Has very powerful runes. Vampires - ...Shit I don't even know their strength. Their cav and beasts? Has very powerful offensive spells Orks - good infantry and good beasts. Has very powerful offensive spells. Chaos - good infantry and good beasts. Has very powerful offensive spells. See how similar in fighting the good factions are and the evil factions are?! The one who sort of breaks the mild is the vamps and that's cause what we've seen is their infantry is really easy to kill which has left youtubers pondering if their going to be underpowered. Now on top of that...dwarves can only occupy with orks in EVERY campaign you will every do and vice versa. Vamps will only ever occupy human settlements you every do and vice versa And chaos is a horde. This is going to become reeeaaaal fuckin' stale fast. I can see the replay ability going downhill fast. I also meant that I still wouldn't pre-order if they did my suggestion but I might have bought the game on release and a lot more might have actually pre-ordered.
you dont seem to know much about videogame programming. There isnt a single game were clipping doesnt happen. You would have to make the physical body that sits on the player/unit model so detailed that it would eat way too much processor power, especially if you do it with thousands of units. Also you would have to make animations for every unit model in the game, which is way too much work for too little benefit! A solution to this would be to make characters very similiar to each other but people like you are already complaining about "simple reskins". Sure there are some stupid design decisions in warhammer but their engine has become really good and it seems it got even better in warhammer. Maybe there is a reason why no other strategy game has reached the scale of Total War yet.
Soldiers faces are going through their own arms and armour, they're even going through other soldiers. That's not a question of programming entire armour sets to sit on top of the players skeletons and mesh perfectly, but a question of actually having unit formations make sense and having their designers and animation guys actually work together to avoid instances like huge embroidered neck plates that a chaos warriors entire face is going to phase through. It's really not that hard for experienced people, if the games modding files were fully open you'd find unofficial patches on it in a few weeks max. To put this into perspective I could point out at Skyrim (because I've been playing it a fuck ton recently) I get that not all armour sets aren't going to blend perfect when mismatched, there's thousands of combinations so that would take ages, but the player base would be really annoyed if a full matching set of daedra or something had massive clipping like what's going on here.
Sorry to say, but I found you rather negative and whiny about alot of the game. First of all, I think you may be expecting a bit too much. Clipping? Yes it happens. Is it annoying? Sure. But consider the scale of the game and the gameplay, add to that, I have not yet played any game that didn't have some clipping. Or if they don't clip, there's really wonky physics behaviour. Wich isn't good either. The engine is old and has it's flaws, but we can only hope they'll make a new one at some point. For now, it looks acceptable imo. Graphics wise, we'll see.. I'd rather have a smooth gameplay with less crystal textures, than a photo-shoot of thousands of high res, realistic models minecraft-chopping away at each other. Atleast they went from 32bit to 64bit support (at long last), if I read correctly on the forums. Now about your complaints concerning the actual game and gameplay: I reckon you've never played the tabletop or spend alot of time getting familiar with the armies, their rosters and perhaps even their lore? Because the way it looks now, they're staying impressivly true to the source material and TT game. Factions have similar units, why yes. Yes some do. But more so than in any other TW game they have alot more unique units. I'd be more upset to see Chaos with archers and gunners than I am about seeing chaos warhounds who almost look/function the same as the VC hounds. Why? Because Chaos does not have archers, or gunners, or any ranged infantry. But they do have hounds. Each army in Warhammer has their own list of units, and while some may overlap, their function on the battlefield can differ (albeit slightly) from army to army. Like someone mentioned earlier, there's alot of unique units allready being shown, and more so not yet being shown either. About the AI.. yes it's stupid. It's been that way in pretty much every TW game. I'll go even one further, AI's been pretty stupid in MOST (if not pretty much all) games. There's no good way to 'fix' the ai. A battle with such diversity can go in so many different ways. Hard to work out algorythms on how to react to any given situation properly. Right now it works with a prioritizing system (also shown pretty well in the chaos siege AI demo). It's far from flawless, but it's something. Imagine if they would have done as you suggested, not chased after high value target (like the demigryphs), then you'd bitch about how they just let uber-dangerous heavy shock cav just ride arround their back and rear charge them into oblivion. The best, and imo only solution to this, and I cross my fingers every day that they implement this in the game, is to opt for drop-in opponents. That way you'll get to play against another player, wich can still be bad, but will be miles ahead of any possible ai opponent. The couple things I do agree with though, to end on a positive note :-) Unit blobbing.. some blobbing is fine (in melee atleast), because a battle is hectic and chaos. But I'd really appreciate it if the units didn't blob so incredibly much on the move atleast. Fight duration, been a problem in the latest series of TW games, and really seems to have pinnacled with Atilla.. the fights are just too short. It's like an overactive meatgrinder. Longer fights promote much more tactical gameplay, instead you get a 6-7 minute slugfest. Where any large tactical maneauvres are moot, because by the time you finished them, the fights' pretty much over and decided allready. Really miss the aspect of the attrition battle that Medieval 2 did have. Going to sound weird, but in those hour-long (big) battles from medieval 2, I fellt like every unit had alot more value than those quick, bloody brawls from the later games. But I guess that's just down to flavor..
You made some good points which I didn't even notice when watching the video.
Thanks mate, sadly because I don't 100% bend over for CA/Sega to constantly praise every action they take and point out glaring flaws I'm a "hater" in some fans eyes.
I know they're chaos but I think even the chaos gods would be appalled at the ai's deployment and I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the clipping. The chariots too, so many rome II flashbacks.
You pointed out so many things in advance, terrific! I do miss the more technical TW games, what did save this franchise was its fantasy allure galore. It is fun if thought as an arcade TW in a fantasy setting.
just to reinforce what Nasmr is saying, if you look at the minimap and compare this with Rome 2 or Empire AI and a battle at a similar stage, early just before the clash, there really is no difference in the AI formation. to quote Reynold Sanity, " strategy equatable to a bum rush and whose tactical mindset can best be characterized as "Oh Fuck it" "
Definitely subscribed, great criticism, i would ignore people who cry about this video.
+Battler Evil Thanks! Currently writing up a video that says what total war can do to improve greatly. There is a lot of "THIS SUCKS" arguments (or "THIS IS GREAT FUCK YOU THEY CAN DO NO WRONG" arguments evidentaly) but I don't think people are really looking into what could be better in depth.
Nasmr Yeah, i absolutely hate when people protect a company, as if they owe them something, you pay for their game anyway ffs... criticise stuff what needs to be taken care off and not go around laughing:it is just a game cmon..'' Yeah that is what i liked about you, and i shall stay subscribed to you :)
ever video of the chaos they have shown the chaos have won, because they want people to pre order for the OP race lol.
I'm very disappointed when they said there will not be a steam workshop for this or mod support in general.
The main reason why I am not buying this game and stinking with call of Warhammer mod
LUIS CARLOS Olano I didn't know that mod smelled so bad.
Call of Warhammer is great I just mispell stinking with staying with medival 2 Warhammer mod .
My bad :-(
A so called "good" player loses 2 battles and I'm not sure if he's just shitty at TW or just fucking loosing to show how "mighty and strong" the AI is
I liked to watch how one unit of halberdier was fighting vs enemy blob of 3+ units. All the time i saw only how blobs were running around and fighting...No formations, nothing at all, just bigger and better blob wins....And dont tell me thats ok, because this game is not historical. I would love to see video how AI attacking in the siege mode, not defending...But i think, they not going to show us. :D
+Ulrich von Hermann Yup...the enemy is going for a "EVERYONE HIT CENTER MASS, IGNORE THE FLANKS AND THEY'LL CRUMBLE AND TOTALLY NOT ENVELOPE US...RIGHT!?!?!" tactic.
Funny how they said they need the funds for the team who built the chaos dlc, then they give it for free??? That doesnt make any sense at all. Ca are full of shit. I'm gonna laugh my head off reading all the bad review on steam 2 weeks after release, because this game will be a Dlc goldmine.
LITTLEBLUE PRODUCTIONS
Its pretty funny you were right, none of the dlc has been substantial yet either. one race pack and then just tons of micro transaction units that should have been in the base game lol
Nasmr I own all the TW games, but i didn't buy this game because of what they did with the chaos dlc. It's a huge part of the game and they took it out to sell it back to ppl. I'm gonna wait until a big steam sale to buy it.
can I get an explanation as to why you think the combat is like Rome 2's? Cause right now I'm no seeing it. I mean I can see Attila maybe(but the again I didn't play it that much so idk) but Rome 2? I just don't see it man.
You raise some really good points. Unfortunately the total war series has always been plagued with clipping and bad A.I.. The clipping is deff an engine problem and it is sad that they haven't spent the resources to build a new engine. As for the bad A.I. I know its going to be bad I just hope that it's at least slightly better than previous titles. Also from what I heard they're separating chaos into two factions so the more unique monsters will probably be in the Chaos Demons faction. I hope the bad graphics and shitty textures are just due to them running it on lower graphics on a slightly old build.
I accept that it's on lower settings...but that just raises more questions.
WHY is it on lower settings?! Their rigs are pretty beefy I recall. Is it once again going to be unoptimised as all hell AGAIN and run like dog shit while we have to endure and wait on patches over the following months?
I keep stressing to TW fans we can't accept this as the standard and it's not okay just because they've done this before. Their response? dislike, make no argument, call me a "hater". It's sad really.
***** actually I made constant legitimate arguments. YOU were the one who went "NUH UH. UR AUTISTIC. CA SAID OTHERWISE "
Then when I had to press you for evidence they did in a 30+ long comment thread all you did was link me to a bunch of videos youtubers did.
THEN when I pointed out how even then some of the videos don't even support your claim you said "nothing will ever make u happy!!!!"
You make general vague statements and are pretty hypocritical in accusations of baseless arguments
*****
"I know I was rude and acted really aggressively against ya yesterday"
Alright that's cool, glad we can step down from a position of shit slinging.
I'm making videos that's what I genuinely think, I have just been fairly fed up of people beating around the bush, handling CA with child gloves, treading gingerly around the core of the issue so to speak a few idioms. To me, THAT is what seems forced, that people don't want to rock the boat.
I was constantly waiting for someone to kick in the fucking door, go "THAT'S BULLSHIT, HERE'S WHY, BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS" and a few videos did it....but moments later CA would throw a "oooooh look! shiny shiny" unit spotlight video and suddenly all is forgotton and forgiven. So I decided fuck it, I'll give it a shot and it's gotten a fair portion of the people who viewed these past two videos to step back, assess, and go "haaaaaaang on...that IS bullshit!"
Hell, even you said I raised a good few points amirite?!
I'll still call out what I think is cool in the game
like I said in the video environments, flying units, and the artillery all look wicked. But I still need to remain grounded and not ignore the flaws I see because I saw some good stuff and easily give in to the "ahhh I'll give it a pass this time" mentality
Now I like to believe I'm straight forward and to the damn point with my replies. No nonsense shit. So I can see how people take it as an attack on them but I've never mudslung unless aggressed first. and never will. The main problem is text can never truly convey emotion so if you heard me say it it'd come across very different to how it looks in writing. But ti's something I can't control there. Peoples interpretations and all.
But yeah, give me a chance, I'm really new with my past videos before "why I'm skeptical" were merely familiarising myself with video recording and editing. I'm still trying to find my rythem and audience and I think I'll eventually get it.
+The Warmonger The textures are indeed a matter or personal expectations, for me they are ok, not amazing but not bad either, the clipping is just something that is hard to get rid of entirely the worst case I saw was the Pegasus wich looked like they didn't even try, Light Wizard's whole legs goes right trought the wing at all times.
The units sizes tho are pathetically small, and yes I know that in tabletop strong units come in small squads but that's why we want a TW game about it, to experience the grand scale we read about in the lore and books and its not just about Demigryphs other units are also small, only 160 zombies? 120(!) goblin archers? 120 orc boyz? those are units that are supposed to have strenght in numbers and I don't see those numbers.
***** In at least one of their videos they said they are playing on max settings and I haven't seen any unit above 160 man so I doubt it, as for the game overall it looks really not fun to play, there are too many dumb design decisions so I'm definitely not bying it, mayby in far future on some dirt cheap sale preferably on Humble Bundle so that I can choose not to give a penny to CA/Sega.
Yes I have to agree Master Darren does look to be holding back quite a bit here and in some other fights as well I assume its orders doing what he is told and all that. As for the whole hounds issue Chaos have always had hounds and no list is complete without a unit or two it really is the chaos equivalent of fast cavalry any tabletopper knows that. You cant really complain about Chaos and vampires having Hounds that look similar lots of factions have Nightly orders and we except those Chaos and undead would have a difficult time taking out arty units and flanking and all those other uses that make light cavalry invaluable. We all know how hard it is to use an army with no fast or light cavalry so to me Chaos hounds are totally justified even if they look similar to vampire units. The Clipping issues you pointed out however are more valid points and one I agree with. Thank you for raising the whole foot sinking issues I have been trying to get that point across myself nobody seems to have noticed it at least they have not been vocal about it yet. Check out the Dwarf siege vids they are really bad. this could be an early version though so hopefully this wont be an issue in the final game. So much work to do CA so little time and no I don't think it will all be finished before release.
Both of them having dogs isn't a massive issue, but I point it out more to show how races aren't going to be massively different from each other and will use a lot of the same assets.
I'm doing that because a lot of people are saying it's okay to have such a small amount of races because each race is going to feel and look unique...when it likely isn't going to feel any vastly different than switching from Rome to parthia
I agree with you that the ai is bad ( though personally idc since it's been bad since Medieval 2) but I don't see how the combat looks like rome 2. Idk maybe i'm just not looking hard enough but I don't see anything like kill moves.
it looks like the graphics are far from perfect, but could that be because this game has a ton of information to be processed, it has so many different soldiers and it is a vast terrain, could it be that we don't have the technology to handle this quantity of information yet, or are there comparable games which are currently available which do pull off the good graphics with this amount of soldiers and land?
Brain Phelps Attila is better looking and it's a predecessor
Some good points but from a very negative position. I prefer a more balanced approach to get the points across
+Bazooka Squirrel so a more PC bubble wrapped approach then.
I would just like to pull apart your points you are making as they are very poor. when Archaon the everchosen chased down the celestial wizard I thought that was good AI as he was single out weak guy and your point about just getting the wizard to pull him into trap is pretty lame. its not 7 chaos against one empire unit its more like 6 against 2 units nothing wrong with that tactic sorry. The way the chaos charged into battle what's wrong with that what would you have them do march slowly in orderly way while getting smashed to death by cannons if they had done that you would have complained about that as well I expect. As for the clipping I didn't notice that until you pointed it out and yes its a good point but most people like me not gonna notice it as we got more important things doing like enjoying the game.
Using your most high valued general isn't a good tactic though. Any one with moderate experience in total war is going to be able to bait generals out easily from the safety of their army this way and trap them.
again it WAS like 6 or 7 units. then 4 or 5 broke off when it saw the demigryphs and a huge section of the chaos infantry went on a wild goose chase that, If properly utilised, can be done to break the enemy piece meal.
so all you have to do is get a high priority unit of demigryphs and set them to run past and all the way to the back of the map and these idiots would follow while you destroy the rest of their army.
and lol. "yeah there's major graphical glitches and fuck ups...but I didn't notice it so that makes it okay!!!!"
Doesn't fly. They clip all through themselves and each other and it's daft
Got nothing better to do?.
You made some good points I hadn't spotted about face graphics etc. But you also made some points that made completely no sense and makes me question how much you know about the Warhammer world and the lore. I don't know a whole lot but I know the basics at least...
1. Why demigryph units are only 24? Because they are very very rare in the universe, only the best of the best can train and ride them so it would make no sense to have large units sizes of them. Also you complain about lack of uniqueness, well here is a cavalry unit thatthat does NOT have a large unit size like the othersand then you complain about that...
2. The point of mounted heroes or flying units when they can only fight on ground; can you honestly not think of a useful reason? A flying wizard can still cast spells from the air, you can fly over units and attack from the rear, you can fly over walls or other obstacles on the map, you can fly behind enemy lines to attack the artillery and so on, there are tons of new options! If the flying unit could attack from the air it would be too OP against armies with little or no ranged units.
3. You say there is little uniqueness in army rosters between evils factions and between good ones, only one of two unique units rest are reskins....seriously? The only reskin of dwarven units are the ones manning the hellfire cannon (which is good vs evil too even and they are just flavour, the cannon itself is the main unit). Only reskin of orc units are trolls and giant. There so SO many unique units in each army roster. For example:
Greenskins: Goblin Doom Diver, Arachnarok, Wolf Riders, all the orc infantry (at least no reskins) and the night goblins.
Empire: Steam Tank, Luminarch, Demigryphs, Hellblaster Volley, Hellstorm Battery, Pistoliers, Outrider Grenade Launchers, all the different wizards.
Vampire Counts: Fell Bats, Terrorgheist, Varghulf, Vargheists, Cairn Wraiths, Hexwraiths, Crypt Ghouls...etc..basically no vampire unit is represented in Chaos or other evil factions?
I won't even bother to go on you're just way way wrong on this. A few units are reskinned, most are definitely not. Sure you could say infantry is infantry with just different models but that's just kidna dumb. There are still tons of variation within the infantry (for example Cairn Wraiths and Savage orc or Crypt Horrors and Marauders are all extremely different between each other).
Chaos doesn't have demons and other such things because that is a different army roster that will come out later, not Chaos Warriors. They just follow the lore. Plus there are units not shown here that are very unique, like Shaggoths and CHaos Dragonw ith two heads each with their own unique breath attack.
+Roger Carhult
FINALLY SOME CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Alright let me tackle this!
"1. Why demigryph units are only 24? Because they are very very rare in
the universe, only the best of the best can train and ride them so it
would make no sense to have large units sizes of them. Also you complain
about lack of uniqueness, well here is a cavalry unit thatthat does NOT
have a large unit size like the othersand then you complain about
that..."
It's a fair point that they are Rare in the universe, but at the same time the empire still needs to field...you know...actual ARMIES to combat the forces of evil that surround them.
Regular cavalry needs to be back to it's original state of 108 like in Rome 1 and demigryphs at 60 (fine with shock cav at 80). Also make them hard and expensive to recruit in campaign (and take ages to replenish) to more accurately represent how valuable they are. It kind of fits in to a video I'm planning on what total war needs to do to become awesome, I'll actually use the demigryph knights as an example as you just shown me they are a prime one to use!
"2. The point of mounted heroes or flying units when they can only fight
on ground; can you honestly not think of a useful reason? A flying
wizard can still cast spells from the air, you can fly over units and
attack from the rear, you can fly over walls or other obstacles on the
map, you can fly behind enemy lines to attack the artillery and so on,
there are tons of new options! If the flying unit could attack from the
air it would be too OP against armies with little or no ranged units."
I didn't really exand on that point as it was unscripted/ranty (check my description box). But I'd like to do just that here.
Flying mounts could really be exanded with gameplay depth if they did strafe runs. Knocking down enemy units which opens them to heavy fire or cav charges on the ground to mop them up makes sense.
Now you're right that flying mounts help big time to getting to point B fast to cast spells. But that use should really be for primarily magic users.
The big tough melee specialist guys like karl franz would be more useful as strafe runners. It could have it's own trade off in that it doesn't achieve many kills but obviously slows the enemy advance while you're positioning the rest of the army and keeps him safe (minus ranged attack, which should actually rek ALL flying units...kind of like elephants), where as landing down and getting him into the thick of it could wreck but open him up to getting swamped.
Because what I'm saying is the assets are already there, the swoop down and knockdown effect, all you got to do is add that extra part were the mount swoops back up in a flying arc.
"3. You say there is little uniqueness in army rosters between evils
factions and between good ones, only one of two unique units rest are
reskins....seriously? The only reskin of dwarven units are the ones
manning the hellfire cannon (which is good vs evil too even and they are
just flavour, the cannon itself is the main unit). Only reskin of orc
units are trolls and giant. There so SO many unique units in each army
roster. "
All it comes down to mate is the simple mechanics. When you boil it down it's just;
Spears, swords, light + heavy cav, skirmishers, artillery.
Flying mounts and monsterous units are genuinely new and add a new aspect to the game but every army has a flying mount and every "evil" army has monsterous that have the same use as shock troopers.
Hell, look at the LoTR and call of warhammer mods. ACTUAL reskins of units created whole new fantasy armies from "ordinary" human armies.
I'm not necessarily saying this is a negative thing, after all it is a game and has to follow rules, but it's more a counter argument to people saying it's justified for less factions because "they're not factions, they're whole new races that aren't just boring humans all the time!!!"
When the reality will be jumping from empire to chaos will be no more game changing than jumping from Eastern Roman Empire to the Huns...and can you imagine if Attila only had four factions?!?!?
And yeah, it's true that chaos will probably have a "chaos beasts and daemons" dlc...but don't you think thats complete bullshit?!?!? So not only do you have to pay 39.99 for the game (AND potentially extra for the chaos faction)...but you have to pay AGAIN to get the complete roster of that faction?!?! That's ludicrus. It would have made waaaaaaaaaaaay more sense to have the chaos warriors as part of the base game...then the daemons as the pre-order exclusive. It still would have been a fairly bitter pill to swallow, but I don't think it would have caused the outrage we saw.
And finally yeah, my knowledge of warhammer is pretty damn rusty. I used to do the 40k tabletop a LOT with a huge tyranid army at my disposial. I plan to brush up on TRUE warhammer fantasy (not that age of sigmar horror show) so I guess that's one positive I can at least give the game is my revived interest. But still, it's just more or less just forgetting the names of things as I can justify my thoughts on the demigryphs.
What I would like to point out though is I really hate how cheap CA are being, Constantly flip flopping their bad decisions from "WE WANT TO FOLLOW THE LORE" but then when it doesn't follow the lore they change their tune to "WELL WE NEED GAMEPLAY!"
Seems seriously cheap and I think Arch warhammer called them out on that bullshit in his regional occupation video
Nasmr
Ok here is my reply to your reply ;)
1. I still don't agree with you, 60 instead of 80 is still way too many for a rare unit. They are very powerful even with only 24 in a stack as each of them has a ton of hp so I think they're fine, plus if there should be any true variation there should be some cavalry with a low unit size and then demis are perfect for that. You can't complain about lack of variety and then argue for less of it. The Empire most likely have ways to deal with the Chaos, one thing is magic for example. Darren was just a bit unlucky with the spells and he also didn't micro the army very well. Plus he had no steam tank which probably would be much more of a help than the Luminarch.
2. Ok I get what you mean and yes it would be a cool effect, but I wonder if you're not able to achieve the same effect with some microing alreadfy. If you "run" from a fight with a mounted unit I am pretty sure he would fly up in the air again. Just like you can use cavarly to charge over and over again, so could you use the flying units for the same thing and sort of achieve a swoop effect. But we'll see.
3. I think you generalise way too much to try prove a point that doesn't really exist. You say:
"All it comes down to mate is the simple mechanics. When you boil it down it's just;
Spears, swords, light + heavy cav, skirmishers, artillery.
Flying mounts and monsterous units are genuinely new and add a new aspect to the game but every army has a flying mount and every "evil" army has monsterous that have the same use as shock troopers."
Apart form that you forget about magic and also new effects such as fear and terror and acid biles, poisons, vulnerability to fire etc, which are totally new mechanics as well (afaik, I have never played a TW game before), basically you say "all games are all the same, it's about having a unit kill another unit".
Sure every army have some sort of infantry but like I already pointed out there are very big variations between the races' melee units. Dwarves don't have the swords+spear units at all. They also don't have the light+heavy cavalry. The undead have ethereal units which are completely different than other melee units for example and they cannot flee but instead crumble. They have zombies that are suuuper slow and weak, do you have such an equivalent in previous TW titles?
They also have only one flying unit which is totally different from normal flying units. Empire doesn't have flying units either unless you count mounted heroes which is not the same thing really.
This game has so much more and new mechanics than previous TW titles as far as I can tell. At least 10 completely new mechanics if not more. Then you also have the magic items and quest chains and powerful heroes you want to put in the midst of the battle on top of it all!
Pretty much every race has it's own new and unique play style both on campaign map and on the actual battle field.
As for the Daemons DLC you don't know this will be the case at all. They could be one of the races included in the expansion so I don't get what you're winded up about. ANd a DLC is only gonna be like $7 so what's the deal? It's less than a friggin' lunch and will add hours and HOURS of joy with unique quest chains, game play and all that.
AND seriously, Chaos warriors ARE a part of the base game. How can you ignore this fact when you just saw a video of it? If you wanna play them then preorder them so WHY keep beating the dead horse. You are already clearly gonna get the game anyway so what is really your point of this complaint?
Roger Carhult
This one's on the phone...so the reply might nonot be as great as my screens small so it's hard to go through each paragraph piece by piece.
It'd be a GOOD thing if there was 60...maybe 45... of them with a ton of HP. Because as we can see, and as more youtubers come out with videos also not liking this video, these battles are quick. Like way too quick.
7 minutes for full 2-3k stack armies duking it out. Anything that helps add length to more like 16 minutes of a battle this scope is a good thing (along with upping the health and armour of most other units).
To be honest though I think this is more our personal preferences.
So hopefully modding unit sizes will still be easy without the workshop (which, again, bullshit.) So we can all achieve that sweet spot we like.
2) Possibly you'll be able to cycle charge. But we all know how "great" TW can be when it comes to disengaging where the unit turns around to disengage...then turns right back around to get back in the fight giving it a good few seconds of just sponging hits. I think it'd just be nice to have the two options for more depth.
3. Sorry, but it really is that simple. The game always comes down to the meta. Which is two blocks with stats colliding and a algorithm working out whose the winner based of those stats.
Anything else like the race or species of the unit, it's height or attack animation is purely superficial. This is extremely apparent if you check out maximus' channel or play competitively.
Again, I'd like to stress this is NOT a bad thing and I'm not striking total war off for this. It's a game and needs rules. But it was more a counter to the argument that changing race is going to feel revolutionary therefore it's okay we got only four races because of how different they'll play.
The game plays different when you change starting location and have a campaign system that's dynamic. For example you'll change your style big time if it turns out a nomad faction is dominating in your playthrough instead of a barbarian faction this time.
But they've taken BOTH of those away with limited races and that terribad occupational system that will pit you against the same faction over and over and over.
Also I meant chaos aren't part of the base game in that they aren't playable. So they should have made them playable...then had the daemons as pre-order incentive. Still wouldn't have got it lel but the backlash would have been softened
1. increasing unit size of demis is a poor way to achieve longer battles, it would take away one thing that is unique about them. If you want longer battles (and I am a bit with you on this) then just lowering the overall damage by say 15% across the line of every unit and magic spell would do the trick. Changing unit sizes is a way worse thing to do it because it needs a lot more balancing.
2. Well I agree with you on this one sort of. It could be a nice feature. But possibly it would be OP against some races that are heavily relying on strong melee units. Use the swoop together with magic to stall units and it can become very frustrating to play against and combat should be fun, not frustrating.
3. No it's not this simple at all, you say it is because you want to make your point but you refuse to counter all the arguments I brought up that proves you are wrong. By your logic all FPS agmes are the same, because you play in first person. And all RTS games are the same, because you play in real time strategy,...but they're not. Starcraft have 3 VERY unique places that all play very different. All units have hp and can do damage yes, but it's just redicilous to narrow it down to just that and say they're all the same.
Same goes with these races. I also gave you examples how even melee units play very differently between the races. You simply cannot compare zombies or etherealto regular swordsmen, and then you have fear, poison and terror too.
The magic adds a whole new dimension where it also simply isn't all about damage either. You have curses, healing and also frreeze effects where you can stop a unit from moving. All these allow for a much much larger choice of tactical decisions.
On the campaign map again you have a ton of unique play style, the unit recruiting of Vampire Counts is very different from the dwarves, and you have corruption effects and so on.
It IS okey we only got 4 (or 5) races because they ARE very unique. You haven't made a single point as to why they are not other than saying they aren't and it's all about pitching a unit against another. Well if it is only about that, then what did you expect when they said they would all be unique and different, really? Did you expect a race would not be about units and damage and battles at all, or what? No regional opccupation and unique start locs for every hero doesn't change that fact so that is not an argument on this specific matter.
Stating that it is the sarting location and ability to paint the map your color that is the only thing that can truly diverse races....I can just say....really?? Using your arguments, I can say that is just something superficial. Conquering area X is not different than conquering area Y. Yet you think it is. But you don't think the races themselves are different or unique.
I really don't understand your reasoning at all here.. To me you just sound a bit bitter about regional occupation and take it out on everything else.
And are you claiming you're not getting the game and wouldn't even if Chaos was included? Then you make even less sense. Why bother to follow the game at all then? Anyone who likes what they see, have no reason to not preorder when you can get a steam refund. To me complaining about Chaos DLC is just pointless whining because of this.
And Daemons as a preorder would just delay the game a LOT more. They have totally unique models that would be needed to be done, they would also have to have a place on the map and requiring balancing thereof, and their own campaign. You don't seem to understand how much extra work all of this would require. And still if they did that, people would still complain about cut content.
There are too many ppl who complain and lack any kind of perspective. When CA show scirpted battles people complain about that, when they show let's play they complain that the battles aren't scripted with zoomed in battles....and so on.
The Bickering Bunch complained that this video did not show it from the Chaos' perspective, and then a minute later he said he wish CA will focus on the base game and not show DLC stuff before the release that isn't in the base game. Those two things are completely contradictory but is just one of the many examples of hypocrisy by the "whiners".
Roger Carhult
Again, Cavalry being larger would be a part of the fixing of the problem. It was perfect at 108 like in Rome 2 and then special cavalry like demigryphs would be 60...nearly halved so more than making up for it. Putting them at a measly 24 really makes no sense unless they were super strong which doesn't seem to be the case as they got done over by melee units in this video(not spear infantry...axes and swords which they're supposedly strong against)
It really wouldn't take much balancing of the stats at all. Just like how pike infantry needed to be 240 (on largest settings) in Rome 2 because of the nature of pikes. (Just like rome 1) And that wouldn't have made them perfect with no tweaks what so ever.
2. That's the counter to strong infantry then. Just like elephants are in regular TW. and then the counter to that is skirmishers. It's all one big rock paper scissors. I know the vamps don't have skirmishers...but that's the fault of the devs not putting them in the rosters. Even basic skeleton archers would do (or just use your giant flying units to block them I guess)
3. Still believe it's basic stats and algorithms. Like you said the difference between a zombie and a imperial swordsmen right?
That's the stats! The unit speed and attack/health.
Just like a armoured legionary is different from a mlg freeman. It's all about the stats of the unit dude. Anything else is purely cinematic.
Look at the rise of mordor mod for more of a grasp on what I'm trying to convey. They can make orcs, uruk hair and all sorts of fancy full "races" out the assets of just the normal "human" factions of total war. That's what these races are. Just take the stats and modify them and give them a zombie or dwarfern model and animation!
Now the magic will be pretty different that's true. But in all honesty I don't see it being THAT unique. Now give me a chance before you jump down my throat.
General abilities. Rome 2 already introduced general abilities. With stat buffs or debuffs. This game just now makes them a offensive tool. Which is pretty new and cool. But...not as big a deal as I think people are making out. Not revolutionary anyway.
Also it's very different having different locations to take, taking on all and every faction. It's not so much the city, as they're all very samey, but the type of faction you fight.
I know I said in the end it boils down to the stats...and it is. But I'd argue the stat changes/disparity of Rome 2 is going to be greater than warhammer.
Why?
Well rome 2 has
Latin culture- with its emphasis on stats being heavy bulky infantry that will cut down infantry FAST...but weak to cavalry.
Greek- with its tanky phalanxes but weak cav and phalanxes having no real killing power. Need to utilise the very strong skirmishers
Persian- SHOCK CAV ON STEROIDS BRUH...weak to Latins heavy infantry if the shock cav can be countered tho
Nomad- Will wear you the fuck down with 10,000 cuts and bites that is the horse archers. But if you got strong skirmishers and spears you won't fair well.
Germanics- CHARGE BONUS FER DAYS. Very low armor tho so prolonged fight is bad.
In Rome 1+2 you had multiple factions for each culture there.
And the campaign allowed for dynamic happenings so you didn't know which culture would thrive and be your rival when you started...could be barbarians nervii...could be Persian. And like I explain you have to change your tactics depending on what faction as the stats were radically different.
What's warhammer?
Empire - good infantry good cav and good artillery. Has very powerful offensive spells
Dwarves - good infantry and food artillery. Has very powerful runes.
Vampires - ...Shit I don't even know their strength. Their cav and beasts? Has very powerful offensive spells
Orks - good infantry and good beasts. Has very powerful offensive spells.
Chaos - good infantry and good beasts. Has very powerful offensive spells.
See how similar in fighting the good factions are and the evil factions are?! The one who sort of breaks the mild is the vamps and that's cause what we've seen is their infantry is really easy to kill which has left youtubers pondering if their going to be underpowered.
Now on top of that...dwarves can only occupy with orks in EVERY campaign you will every do and vice versa.
Vamps will only ever occupy human settlements you every do and vice versa
And chaos is a horde.
This is going to become reeeaaaal fuckin' stale fast. I can see the replay ability going downhill fast.
I also meant that I still wouldn't pre-order if they did my suggestion but I might have bought the game on release and a lot more might have actually pre-ordered.
Your criticism isn't very constructive
your comment wasn't very constructive either
you dont seem to know much about videogame programming. There isnt a single game were clipping doesnt happen. You would have to make the physical body that sits on the player/unit model so detailed that it would eat way too much processor power, especially if you do it with thousands of units. Also you would have to make animations for every unit model in the game, which is way too much work for too little benefit! A solution to this would be to make characters very similiar to each other but people like you are already complaining about "simple reskins". Sure there are some stupid design decisions in warhammer but their engine has become really good and it seems it got even better in warhammer. Maybe there is a reason why no other strategy game has reached the scale of Total War yet.
Soldiers faces are going through their own arms and armour, they're even going through other soldiers. That's not a question of programming entire armour sets to sit on top of the players skeletons and mesh perfectly, but a question of actually having unit formations make sense and having their designers and animation guys actually work together to avoid instances like huge embroidered neck plates that a chaos warriors entire face is going to phase through. It's really not that hard for experienced people, if the games modding files were fully open you'd find unofficial patches on it in a few weeks max.
To put this into perspective I could point out at Skyrim (because I've been playing it a fuck ton recently) I get that not all armour sets aren't going to blend perfect when mismatched, there's thousands of combinations so that would take ages, but the player base would be really annoyed if a full matching set of daedra or something had massive clipping like what's going on here.
Sorry to say, but I found you rather negative and whiny about alot of the game.
First of all, I think you may be expecting a bit too much.
Clipping? Yes it happens. Is it annoying? Sure.
But consider the scale of the game and the gameplay, add to that, I have not yet played any game that didn't have some clipping. Or if they don't clip, there's really wonky physics behaviour. Wich isn't good either.
The engine is old and has it's flaws, but we can only hope they'll make a new one at some point. For now, it looks acceptable imo.
Graphics wise, we'll see.. I'd rather have a smooth gameplay with less crystal textures, than a photo-shoot of thousands of high res, realistic models minecraft-chopping away at each other.
Atleast they went from 32bit to 64bit support (at long last), if I read correctly on the forums.
Now about your complaints concerning the actual game and gameplay:
I reckon you've never played the tabletop or spend alot of time getting familiar with the armies, their rosters and perhaps even their lore?
Because the way it looks now, they're staying impressivly true to the source material and TT game.
Factions have similar units, why yes. Yes some do. But more so than in any other TW game they have alot more unique units.
I'd be more upset to see Chaos with archers and gunners than I am about seeing chaos warhounds who almost look/function the same as the VC hounds. Why? Because Chaos does not have archers, or gunners, or any ranged infantry. But they do have hounds.
Each army in Warhammer has their own list of units, and while some may overlap, their function on the battlefield can differ (albeit slightly) from army to army.
Like someone mentioned earlier, there's alot of unique units allready being shown, and more so not yet being shown either.
About the AI.. yes it's stupid. It's been that way in pretty much every TW game. I'll go even one further, AI's been pretty stupid in MOST (if not pretty much all) games.
There's no good way to 'fix' the ai. A battle with such diversity can go in so many different ways. Hard to work out algorythms on how to react to any given situation properly.
Right now it works with a prioritizing system (also shown pretty well in the chaos siege AI demo). It's far from flawless, but it's something.
Imagine if they would have done as you suggested, not chased after high value target (like the demigryphs), then you'd bitch about how they just let uber-dangerous heavy shock cav just ride arround their back and rear charge them into oblivion.
The best, and imo only solution to this, and I cross my fingers every day that they implement this in the game, is to opt for drop-in opponents. That way you'll get to play against another player, wich can still be bad, but will be miles ahead of any possible ai opponent.
The couple things I do agree with though, to end on a positive note :-)
Unit blobbing.. some blobbing is fine (in melee atleast), because a battle is hectic and chaos. But I'd really appreciate it if the units didn't blob so incredibly much on the move atleast.
Fight duration, been a problem in the latest series of TW games, and really seems to have pinnacled with Atilla.. the fights are just too short. It's like an overactive meatgrinder. Longer fights promote much more tactical gameplay, instead you get a 6-7 minute slugfest. Where any large tactical maneauvres are moot, because by the time you finished them, the fights' pretty much over and decided allready.
Really miss the aspect of the attrition battle that Medieval 2 did have. Going to sound weird, but in those hour-long (big) battles from medieval 2, I fellt like every unit had alot more value than those quick, bloody brawls from the later games. But I guess that's just down to flavor..