Thanks for doing all these experiments and explanation videos, Im currently playing around with a leaky/back flowing overnight lift pump and these videos are a great reference tool.
I guess 1-3mm spacer is ok. But 1mm will destroy earlier than 3mm. Indecisive person like me, put 2mm( 2 gaskets) . Still better carry spare pump(s) for long trip? Understood now. Thank for spending time for this!
great vid ,had the issue of air getting into the system ,was the pump, I came to the same as you 3 gasket is correct spacing, I also found in my tank was a layer of black mold , you get alot of this in diesel on boats, keep up the good work
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I found HATZ motors have the same problem. I soon learnt to rotate the crank with a finger on the manual stroke for the lift pump to get max lift, otherwise you would be there all day getting blisters priming the engine after a service. Cheers.
I added an inline filter to my 109" 2A 2.25 diesel, also did the same for my Nuffield tractor. Had no starting issues with it in -25C. Fitted it before the liftpump, but i replaced it every year in september/october so i got a clean filter before the winter started.
Very interesting Mike. Now we can conclude that aftermarket pumps are good(ish), all we need to do is to prolong their life is use a 3 gasket setup. Nice, very nice. Thanks again for the experiment and results. tata
I use inline filter > electric fuel pump > lift pump > filter > injection pump Works really well I left the lift pump in just for back up and the fact I was waiting on a blanking plate , in-line filters are cheap enough when bought in packs of 10 or so
Hi Mike, When I fitted the VM 2.5 to my RRC I set the lift pump to suck the diesel through the main filter, this worked fine and I never had to clean the small filter on the pump worked well for 280,000 miles, when I fitted the 300 tdi I plumbed it the same as the disco it came from, very soon I had problems with the small filter blocking up so I plumbed it like I had the VM and no more problems ( I will get around to cleaning the tank one day ) I am going to fit the extra gaskets so I can prime the filter by hand when I change it, Keep on making land rovers better mike.
interesting after gogin through pumps over a few years i pt the spacer on my edc disoce and it runs great but has a weird check engine flicker at 2000rpm might be the low volume issue. once ive don this years welding ill try it with the spacer removed or just make a new 1mm spacer
200TDI was factory fitted with one 1mm gasket, I recently replaced the original lift pump at 450,000 km and it was still serviceable after 30 years of operation running on filtered fuel, serviced sedimentor and diesel fuel conditioner.
Awesome video and massive help - do you put gaskets on dry or add gasket goo between them ? And filter before pump is a good idea ( what size is the inlet pipe on a 3000tdi ? To get right size filter ?? Thank you again 👍👍👍👍
Hello Mike, first happy birthday to Deborah, second, thanks for thé exhaustive démonstration for thé lift pump, third my position about it : i have delphi pump + 1 mm gasket and no spacer, so maximum volume of fuel displaced from tank, and maximum work for thé pump, more than needed ? So if i put 2 more gasket, less job for thé pump, enougth for thé engine, and i keep thé pump longer in good condition. What i don t understand is that with spacer added, far less job for thé pump but if it provide enougth fuel to thé engine, this configuration should help to keep thé pump longer, isn t it ? Adding to this i have rrc with prefilter(decanteur) close to thé tank.
The thick 5mm space plus gaskets allowed the manual lift to work in almost any position, but as you saw - no volume using the lever on the camshaft when the cam was turned, as it was too far out 3 mm had a similar pressure/volume effect to the 1 mm BUT no stress on the pump
2 days well spent Mike. I will remove my spacer and go to 3 gaskets as a trial. My pump has some mods (not by me) and when you turn the screw down to remove smoke it hardly moves from standstill. Seems like low fuel pressure. Many thanks.
Has anyone fitted an inline filter in the diesel pipe before the lift pump, on the in side feeding the lift pump help / or cause problems ? Thinking a Mann wk 42/1 ?
Land Rover fitted a plastic strainer on the pickup pipe of the petrol engines, but not on the diesels - in cold climates diesel gets a bit thick and needs all the flow it can get
@@BritannicaRestorations Thank you for reply ~ I'll try an inline filter, we don't get too chilly here in Swansea, UK ( wish we got snow, we never get snow ! ) ....
I once fitted an immobilizing solenoid to my 200Tdi fuel line Worked fine in summer - come winter it would start, but would stall after a few kms - diesel was too thick for the orifice
@@BritannicaRestorations I’m hoping our winters are not too cold for that too happen we only have a few odd days of freezing / hard frost and that’s it …. We specialise in rain ! I’m just hoping it doesn’t tax the pump and lower the pressure as it’s only around the 4psi as it is ….part of me is saying just fit an electric pump
A sedimenter wouldn't filter? I had a glass water trap that I could drain on my BJ60, but I guess it wasn't for sédiment. Our IH Farmall Cub had a glass sedimenter .
hi mike great vid, would the sweet spot be where the lift pump arm just touches at the back of the cam giveing you more of the hand pump ability positioning and max volume, i think that mite be 4 or 5mm? 1mm no lift pump, max volume, 3mm half lift pump, good volume, 7mm all lift pump low volume, hows the raccons doing? also we can get krown in the uk 400ml cans with the inverter cap, all the best,,
The real deal showing us how to do it! Cheers! Would adding a total of 3mm of spacers to a 200tdi have similar results? Not so sure if the crank is the same on a 200tdi.
What would be interesting to see would be a partially dismantled pump to see how far the diaphragm is extended. For best performance and longevity you'd want it to extend and retract equally from its mid point, I'd be interested to see what spacer thickness would be required for that. It's entirely possible that this is the way it's set up out of the factory, and that by using 3 gaskets you're under extending the diaphragm (but not enough to lose any stroke on the pump and therefore volume like you do with the 5mm spacer) which is why the lever works better, but may also be stressing the diaphragm more. An alternative fix for slow leaks in the valves would be to fit a non return valve after the fuel filter. You'd extend the useful life of the pump as a slow leak in the valves isn't likely to cause any issues while running, but you wouldn't be adding any significant restriction that might affect cold starts
@@BritannicaRestorations its really sad that something like that gets left out for (I guess )economical reasons just because someone calculated that it should hold long enough to be the concern of who ever bought it and not the manufacturer.... thanks for your videos and the answer Mike!
Mike is the cam leaver one piece or is it two pieces in older pumps it was a rocker arm and link and would allow pump to idle when pressure and fuel delivery was delivered and would cut in again when neaded
These pumps are feeding on demand. The demand is depending on what's to be injected into the engine. Only the injection pump needs to be feed by low pressure. The failure of these pumps is the diaphagmar.
Great infomation. 3 gaskets from now on. One thing I wonder. How much pressure does the bosch pump need? Is it when the engine is running it's able to pull enough diesel itself? Just wonder if the spacer is more to disable the lift pump from the cam. So you manually prime then it's there just to stop the fuel flowing back to the tank. If your reguarlly using your car then would it work just fine like that...
is this issue on the 200TDi too? I've never replaced a lift pump in 20yrs and I think it was the original on the engine, so that's 260k miles. I need to go see if it has a spacer (it's a 92 model year)
Take that squeeze bottle back and tell them the print came off in soapy water. Then you have a dollar to spend on Deborah's birthday, that should be more than enough.
Again, good going with your tests. My D1 has the lift pump between the fuel filter and the injector pump. Are Defenders different? Conclusion, buy a Delphi with extra gaskets and the one supplied the Delphi is thinner than 1 mm, at least where I live. You know parts suppliers won't like you, because less pumps to sell.
It’s in between in terms of spacing in the engine bay they are in between but not the way the fuel lines are wired up , defender and disco 300tdis are the exact same engine wise , the only real difference is the air box location.
Great work Mike, I found out the hard way not to use the spacer but would you, (or anyone else), be able to confirm that the three gasket set up would be optimum for a 200tdi?
The 200tdi uses the same lift pump as the 19j and some of the 2.5na's, I'm told if you buy one of them they come with a spacer which you use on the 19j but not the 200 as the 200 has a thicker mount. Can't confirm that though. A 300 pump might fit on a 200 but I'd assume the ideal spacing would be different since the engine is totally different
@@TheTomco11 I should of checked before posting, the 200 lift pump has a different part number - I'd assumed they would be the same. The 200 does have a thicker mounting plate so doesn't need the spacer - a mistake I made when I first changed the pump, I was just wondering if Mike's 3 gasket advice might also work for a 200.
Hi Mike I just fitted a new pump to my 200tdi it came with 5mm spacer and two gaskets. The one i took off had one gaskets. Question is the gap from block to cam the same from 200tdi to 300tdi? As after this video I think it’s worth taking it off and fitting three gaskets.
Thank you Mike. I have had 6 mm total spacer and have had fuel supply problems for 12 months. Reduced spacer to 3mm and no more problems. Thanks mate.
Glad it helped
Thanks Mike.
These explanation are very very important to me as Iam the mechanic of my 300 tdi defender.
Keeps the old girl running!
Thanks for doing all these experiments and explanation videos, Im currently playing around with a leaky/back flowing overnight lift pump and these videos are a great reference tool.
If it is back flowing, then the valves inside have gone - you cannot fix them - new pump
@@BritannicaRestorations Ordered, job for the weekend.
Thanks for sorting this out for us Mike, you are a Land Rover Ninja. I will be removing that spacer from the Disco as soon as I can get some gaskets.
Glad to help- 3 gaskets will be the optimal space for pump life and flow
That was a great experiment John noakes.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video lots of information very good thanks Danny
Glad it was helpful!
Well Mike, you've covered that subject very well, good job.
Lots of work and effort gone into this. Thank you, very useful info.
Glad it was helpful!
I guess 1-3mm spacer is ok. But 1mm will destroy earlier than 3mm. Indecisive person like me, put 2mm( 2 gaskets) . Still better carry spare pump(s) for long trip?
Understood now. Thank for spending time for this!
great vid ,had the issue of air getting into the system ,was the pump, I came to the same as you 3 gasket is correct spacing, I also found in my tank was a layer of black mold , you get alot of this in diesel on boats, keep up the good work
Thanks for your work Mike. Well worth spending an afternoon messing with fuel pumps. Great results that will help us set these engines up.
Glad to help
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I found HATZ motors have the same problem. I soon learnt to rotate the crank with a finger on the manual stroke for the lift pump to get max lift, otherwise you would be there all day getting blisters priming the engine after a service. Cheers.
Glad it helped
I added an inline filter to my 109" 2A 2.25 diesel, also did the same for my Nuffield tractor. Had no starting issues with it in -25C. Fitted it before the liftpump, but i replaced it every year in september/october so i got a clean filter before the winter started.
Very interesting Mike.
Now we can conclude that aftermarket pumps are good(ish), all we need to do is to prolong their life is use a 3 gasket setup.
Nice, very nice.
Thanks again for the experiment and results.
tata
Absolutely
I use
inline filter > electric fuel pump > lift pump > filter > injection pump
Works really well I left the lift pump in just for back up and the fact I was waiting on a blanking plate , in-line filters are cheap enough when bought in packs of 10 or so
Great video King Mike it makes me to go check what do I have on my project engine.
Cheers King Mike. 🥃
Right on
Hi Mike, When I fitted the VM 2.5 to my RRC I set the lift pump to suck the diesel through the main filter, this worked fine and I never had to clean the small filter on the pump worked well for 280,000 miles, when I fitted the 300 tdi I plumbed it the same as the disco it came from, very soon I had problems with the small filter blocking up so I plumbed it like I had the VM and no more problems ( I will get around to cleaning the tank one day ) I am going to fit the extra gaskets so I can prime the filter by hand when I change it, Keep on making land rovers better mike.
very useful, I know what I'm doing tomorrow now ha!
Have fun!
interesting after gogin through pumps over a few years i pt the spacer on my edc disoce and it runs great but has a weird check engine flicker at 2000rpm might be the low volume issue. once ive don this years welding ill try it with the spacer removed or just make a new 1mm spacer
Excellent video Mike, I will check my 200tdi pump şet up to see what I have
This is only applicable to 300Tdi
Thanks for the updat
200TDI was factory fitted with one 1mm gasket, I recently replaced the original lift pump at 450,000 km and it was still serviceable after 30 years of operation running on filtered fuel, serviced sedimentor and diesel fuel conditioner.
Thank you
You're welcome
It’d be very useful to know if all brands have the same dimensions for the operating arm and sweep distance.
Noted
Would this explain why that overweight defender was running lean?
Awesome video and massive help - do you put gaskets on dry or add gasket goo between them ? And filter before pump is a good idea ( what size is the inlet pipe on a 3000tdi ? To get right size filter ?? Thank you again 👍👍👍👍
Yes, I use Hylomar blue - I seem to recall the inlet to the pump is 10mm outside diameter - or maybe 8mm?
@@BritannicaRestorations thank you for reply & help - really appreciated. 1 week into defender ownership and discovered the joys of lift fuel pumps !!
More to come!!
Hello Mike, first happy birthday to Deborah, second, thanks for thé exhaustive démonstration for thé lift pump, third my position about it : i have delphi pump + 1 mm gasket and no spacer, so maximum volume of fuel displaced from tank, and maximum work for thé pump, more than needed ? So if i put 2 more gasket, less job for thé pump, enougth for thé engine, and i keep thé pump longer in good condition. What i don t understand is that with spacer added, far less job for thé pump but if it provide enougth fuel to thé engine, this configuration should help to keep thé pump longer, isn t it ?
Adding to this i have rrc with prefilter(decanteur) close to thé tank.
The thick 5mm space plus gaskets allowed the manual lift to work in almost any position, but as you saw - no volume using the lever on the camshaft when the cam was turned, as it was too far out
3 mm had a similar pressure/volume effect to the 1 mm BUT no stress on the pump
2 days well spent Mike. I will remove my spacer and go to 3 gaskets as a trial.
My pump has some mods (not by me) and when you turn the screw down to remove smoke it hardly moves from standstill. Seems like low fuel pressure.
Many thanks.
Witch screw to réduction smoke ? I have big cloud when starting thé engine, with heater plug New.
@@vincea1401 They always give out a cloud of smoke on start up, no matter what setting.
@BritannicaRestorations which make lift pump Do you recommend
Delphi
Has anyone fitted an inline filter in the diesel pipe before the lift pump, on the in side feeding the lift pump help / or cause problems ? Thinking a Mann wk 42/1 ?
Land Rover fitted a plastic strainer on the pickup pipe of the petrol engines, but not on the diesels - in cold climates diesel gets a bit thick and needs all the flow it can get
@@BritannicaRestorations Thank you for reply ~ I'll try an inline filter, we don't get too chilly here in Swansea, UK ( wish we got snow, we never get snow ! ) ....
I once fitted an immobilizing solenoid to my 200Tdi fuel line
Worked fine in summer - come winter it would start, but would stall after a few kms - diesel was too thick for the orifice
@@BritannicaRestorations I’m hoping our winters are not too cold for that too happen we only have a few odd days of freezing / hard frost and that’s it …. We specialise in rain !
I’m just hoping it doesn’t tax the pump and lower the pressure as it’s only around the 4psi as it is ….part of me is saying just fit an electric pump
Another mint video, much appreciated.
No problem 👍
A sedimenter wouldn't filter? I had a glass water trap that I could drain on my BJ60, but I guess it wasn't for sédiment. Our IH Farmall Cub had a glass sedimenter .
sedimenter is mainly for water separation
hi mike great vid, would the sweet spot be where the lift pump arm just touches at the back of the cam giveing you more of the hand pump ability positioning and max volume, i think that mite be 4 or 5mm? 1mm no lift pump, max volume, 3mm half lift pump, good volume, 7mm all lift pump low volume, hows the raccons doing? also we can get krown in the uk 400ml cans with the inverter cap, all the best,,
No Raccoons this year!
The real deal showing us how to do it! Cheers!
Would adding a total of 3mm of spacers to a 200tdi have similar results? Not so sure if the crank is the same on a 200tdi.
No - this only applies to 300tdi
Excellent vid, does the vac pump have the same issue?
What would be interesting to see would be a partially dismantled pump to see how far the diaphragm is extended. For best performance and longevity you'd want it to extend and retract equally from its mid point, I'd be interested to see what spacer thickness would be required for that. It's entirely possible that this is the way it's set up out of the factory, and that by using 3 gaskets you're under extending the diaphragm (but not enough to lose any stroke on the pump and therefore volume like you do with the 5mm spacer) which is why the lever works better, but may also be stressing the diaphragm more.
An alternative fix for slow leaks in the valves would be to fit a non return valve after the fuel filter. You'd extend the useful life of the pump as a slow leak in the valves isn't likely to cause any issues while running, but you wouldn't be adding any significant restriction that might affect cold starts
Does anybody know if the spacer Was there on a 200tdi? Or is the block just different so the problem is not existing?
When you get a 200 Tdi lift pump, it comes as a kit with the spacer as the blocks are different
rimmerbros.com/Item--i-STC1190
@@BritannicaRestorations its really sad that something like that gets left out for (I guess )economical reasons just because someone calculated that it should hold long enough to be the concern of who ever bought it and not the manufacturer.... thanks for your videos and the answer Mike!
Mike is the cam leaver one piece or is it two pieces in older pumps it was a rocker arm and link and would allow pump to idle when pressure and fuel delivery was delivered and would cut in again when neaded
one piece
These pumps are feeding on demand. The demand is depending on what's to be injected into the engine. Only the injection pump needs to be feed by low pressure. The failure of these pumps is the diaphagmar.
Great infomation. 3 gaskets from now on.
One thing I wonder. How much pressure does the bosch pump need? Is it when the engine is running it's able to pull enough diesel itself?
Just wonder if the spacer is more to disable the lift pump from the cam. So you manually prime then it's there just to stop the fuel flowing back to the tank. If your reguarlly using your car then would it work just fine like that...
It needs no pressure really I think the fuel pump only supplies somthing like 4psi max from what I’ve read
is this issue on the 200TDi too? I've never replaced a lift pump in 20yrs and I think it was the original on the engine, so that's 260k miles. I need to go see if it has a spacer (it's a 92 model year)
300Tdi only
@@BritannicaRestorations cheers Mike
Could we see a 3mm gasket hitting the online shop?
Take that squeeze bottle back and tell them the print came off in soapy water. Then you have a dollar to spend on Deborah's birthday, that should be more than enough.
Again, good going with your tests.
My D1 has the lift pump between the fuel filter and the injector pump. Are Defenders different?
Conclusion, buy a Delphi with extra gaskets and the one supplied the Delphi is thinner than 1 mm, at least where I live.
You know parts suppliers won't like you, because less pumps to sell.
It’s in between in terms of spacing in the engine bay they are in between but not the way the fuel lines are wired up , defender and disco 300tdis are the exact same engine wise , the only real difference is the air box location.
Great work Mike, I found out the hard way not to use the spacer but would you, (or anyone else), be able to confirm that the three gasket set up would be optimum for a 200tdi?
The 200tdi uses the same lift pump as the 19j and some of the 2.5na's, I'm told if you buy one of them they come with a spacer which you use on the 19j but not the 200 as the 200 has a thicker mount. Can't confirm that though. A 300 pump might fit on a 200 but I'd assume the ideal spacing would be different since the engine is totally different
@@TheTomco11 I should of checked before posting, the 200 lift pump has a different part number - I'd assumed they would be the same. The 200 does have a thicker mounting plate so doesn't need the spacer - a mistake I made when I first changed the pump, I was just wondering if Mike's 3 gasket advice might also work for a 200.
This is only applicable to 300Tdi
Hi Mike
I just fitted a new pump to my 200tdi it came with 5mm spacer and two gaskets. The one i took off had one gaskets. Question is the gap from block to cam the same from 200tdi to 300tdi? As after this video I think it’s worth taking it off and fitting three gaskets.
This is only applicable to 300Tdi
I'd be mopping the diesel up at £8.98 a gallon
Wow! That is expensive!
*cough “arse”
😁
Am i first boys?
You can be anything you like now, so we will say you’re the First!😀😀