MDF Verses Water Resistant MDF | Woodworking
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Rob Cosman compares MDF against Water Resistant MDF for woodworking applications
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I first started using water resistant MDF in 2011. The color is green, easy to recognize. I placed a small chunk in a bird bath over night and the next day it was darker green but had not swollen, or changed size, or deteriorated. Good for flat slab Euro style kitchen cabinet door and drawer fronts. Paint in the usual manner of painting MDF.
Thanks for sharing
Coincidentally, the water resistant version here in the UK is also green (as are water resistant flooring sheets).
I would be interested in changes in strength, both compressive and tensile. It would be nice to know if there is a change in the ability of a screw to hold after it is water soaked.
Where can I purchase this Trupan material?
I contacted the manufacturer, and they told me to talk to their distributors.
The companies on their list do not respond to emails.
If anyone knows where to purchase it in the Miami area, please post that info.
Hi Rob, a while ago I suggested using trickoya mdf on your cosman bench. It's compleatly waterproof but expensive. The manufacturer even recommend it for outdoor projects.
We buried a section for about a year under ground and when we dug it up it was wet and dirty but didn't swell in dementions.
Well I use a ton of birds-eye maple and I can tell you it is definitely not waterproof and it moves with changes in humidity like all wood, except torrified wood
Hi, I didn't mention maple, I was referring to trickoya.
I understand maple, even birds eye isn't waterproof like any other species of natural wood
Love your channel Rob. You are very talented and give a novice woodworker a challenge. However, I really wanted to applaud your for promoting the purple heart project. Not a phrase i was familiar with before this, but I understand it's purpose. great work. Support our troops.
Thanks Rob and team.
Thanks for watching
30 years ago I saw some of these products (MDF and Particle) at the trade shows sitting in Aquariums, definitely a specialty product that you won’t find in the big box store but great when you need it and can find it.
Thanks for the comment
What was the name brand of the dark water resistant MDF? Did you get yours from a supplier in Canada or USA? Great video and test on how these MDF products react with water. Thanks for sharing! Take care👍🏻
I do wish you'd tested a treated MDF (regular MDF with a latex primer and a wood sealant on top)..., but Thanks
Maybe another video
A well done test!
Good info!!! As you pointed out, we use MDF for it's dimensional stability and it's very flat surface. From my perspective, the light colored water-resistant MDF (Armorite) is just a fail. Yes, better than regular, but still fails in both the things we want from MDF! The darker (Trupan) on the other hand, did a pretty good job. Of course, they do market this stuff as water-resistant ("applications with high humidity and incidental moisture content"), so your test was a bit of a torture test for it...and yet the Trupan seemed to hold up well!
Thanks for this! Now I wonder where I can find this stuff!!!
You should be able to look it up on the internet, and I understand there a lot of other manufacturers now
I wish this stuff was available locally.
We use a lot of Medex , moisture resistant from Roseburg . It is a much more refined product than Trupan , which makes it incredibly heavy compared to Trupan .
That is a pretty tough test for water resistance. I'd use either of the two WR mdf if I could get them here in the states
I know its available in the U.S. but probably not in the big box stores. Need to go to specialty wood sellers
Plywood Company of Fort Worth is where I get Medex but they also sell the Armorlite.
Rob, would you please do a video on how to sharpen gouges?
Great test.Thanks
Thanks for watching
Nice test
I built Rob's MDF bench here in the UK using water resistant MDF, as it was on offer at a price near enough the same as standard stuff.
The bench was thoroughly soaked in Danish oil too, as the garage I use as a workshop is definitely a little damp in winter.
I've had no issues at all.
ETA Could you repeat the test using MDF treated with Danish oil?
That would give an idea of how much protection it has against moisture.
Yes a lot of folks have asked that so we will put it on the to do list
Appreciate the video...good information! Thank you.
Thanks for watching
Time 1:59
Light Color = Armorite Exterior MDF by Roseburg
Dark Color = Trupan Moisture Resistant MDF by Arauco
Really interesting. Thanks. I wonder what happens if you let them sit for 2min in water not 24hours. In my experience regular MDF would be likely destroyed but I’d bet the others wouldn’t even change. Water resistant not proof.
well I can tell you with regular unfinished MDF if I get it wet for two minutes it will swell up. With regular MDF I have to always trim the edges before using as juts sitting around the shop the edges absorb moisture from the air and swell
There is another type called 'Tricoya' mdf. I have used it for external use as a garage/workshop door. It has been rated for external decorative panels.
However, it is expensive.
Thanks for sharing. I suspect there is other water resistant MDF out the too
This was interesting.
The European market gets far higher quality sheet goods then us mugs on this side of the pond, I know as I'm from the UK. As a result and as an architect, I always call out for MDO/HDO. You get the same stability. Both are used for outdoor signage plus you get the smooth painting surface.
The dark one looks just like the regular mdf when I have put a couple coats of osmo on it. I trimmed one after the fact and had a rubbery strip about a 1/16 thick I could of edge banded plywood with. I made two mini shooting boards and did laqure on one and osm on the other. It is plesently weird how it reacts to osmo.
Right on
Thanks for watching
I hate the stuff, but the water resistant one gives me a glimmer of hope. Rob you should try a Burn / Fire test. That MDF burns faster than a credit card in the wife's handbag.
Is the dust from the water resistant MDF worse than the from the regular MDF? I actually don't mind the dust from MDF that much. I mean, I don't like breathing dust, but it doesn't make me sneeze my head off, like western red cedar, for instance. Will it take regular wood glue? Or is it so much plastic you need to use something special?
Love the Content. Can you please advise the source for these here in Canada? Thanks
Well we get ours locally in Fredericton, but thats why I included the manufacturers name so you can look them up and get the closets distributor to you.
Respectfully, isn't submersing the samples for 24 hours testing "water proof" vs. "water resistant"? Nonetheless, great video - insightful!
I once worked in the same complex as a sign writer. He was persuaded to use waterproof mdf for shopfront signs, despite primer, 3 coats of undercoat and 3 coats of gloss on all faces . every sign failed.
They blew out sometimes in the middle of the sign well away from any fastenings. Total disaster.
I'm curious how those would compare with Valchromat, which is a water resistant MDF from Europe.
If we had any of that stuff we could test it
Great content as always. Can the regular MDF be sealed and with what would you recommend?
Yes you can put a finish on it but you cannot “seal out” moisture. Unless you encased it in epoxy, moisture will penetrate any oil or water based finish. The absorption rate is slower than a non finished surface but moisture will get in
Very interesting. A few thoughts. I watch builders wrap mdf sheathing a few days after rain. I wonder what they are trapping. It looked like the water had migrated nearly all the way across your non-wp sample. Did your mdf samples change in surface smoothness after they dried?
It would have been interesting if he tested penetration of the water. He could have used tinted water and cut a cross section. Maybe another day.
I tried to address that in the video. To my hand the water resistant MDF faces still felt "normal"
Where can you purchase the water resistant MDF in Canada
Yes. We do. We by it our our local distributor in Frederickton NB
I once tested some samples of genuinely waterproof MDF, from a local builders merchant. I cut them in half to obviate cheating and left them in a water tank outside for the winter. It was summer by the time I remembered it ! I got the samples out, dried them roughly and put a 3/8” drill bit through them, dry drillings, marvellous ! Phoned merchants, wonderful ! where can I get this stuff ? Answer; very sorry sir, they’ve gone out of business !! I think this was an experimental product from Sundeala in Sunbury on Thames. But no use now, gone ! Rats !!
I wonder how they're treating their MDF to make it water resistant?
No clue
It would be interesting to see how strength is compromised after introducing moisture to both.
Yes it would. Maybe another video
Did your barber retire?
Covid clowns (Govt) put her out of business!
Uh, what's the brand? Can't you say?
There are even better brands that are rated for outdoor use. Tricoya is one and I think Medite is another.
Yeah, it's crazy that he didn't state the brand names. Makes the video almost pointless.
"Versus"
Thanks for watching
No wait 😅
Thanks fir commenting
I haven't watched Rob for some time.
Where is he?
And who's that hippie?
Wrong experiment. you left the two other in water longer while drying up and measuring the first one :)
That was pretty painful to watch.
Seems like "water resistant MDF" has a ways to go before it is ready for prime time.
When I eventually build a larger workbench I'll top it with MDF. I rang a supplier here in Australia. Three types: non water resistant, water resistant, water proof. The price for water resistant was $80 a sheet. The price for water proof was $750 for same size sheet. So, it's decided! I'll be waxing the top of the water resistant sheet.
Alternatively, you could get the regular, and soak it with several coats of shellac.
Yo, I think both options ^ are going to be pretty damned slick. I'd just buy the cheap stuff, leave it unfinished and consider it a sacrificial top. Wax or shellac won't really do much for protection (you're gonna beat the hell out of the thing) and you'll end up with a skating rink of a top.
Extira by Jeld-Wen is, in my experience, a waterproof panel. I worked for a distributor that sold this to custom garage door manufacturers, sign makers, and cabinet makers for use in outdoor kitchens. I tested samples by fully immersing them in water and then leaving this water and the sample outside, in the winter, to freeze solid. No swelling or distortion occurred. I also used this to make five piece raised panel exterior shutters for my own home. Machines cleanly and finishes decently with oil based primer and acrylic top coat.
That’s what I use for outdoor products.
Astonishing. That was a worst-case scenario. As you know, Water Resistant could easily mean you can spill a liquid on it and wipe it up. But soaking it in water overnight is a real test. I agree, it’s well worth the extra cost. I wonder if it wears as well.
We have been using it for a few months and so far so good
😂 wish it was only 20% more. Not in the uk it’s about 900% more. 18mm is around £35 where as the tricyoya is £364. 🤦♂️🤦♂️ffs
This video is not too useful unless the source information of the better Water Resistant MDF is listed.
What source info??? We just dunked MDF in water to see if water resistant MDF holds up better than regular MDF. Our test is the source info!
Mr. Cosman is just too busy it seems. He does not get that you are simply asking about the manufacturer. Other viewers give the answer above.
Thanks, I read some other comments and it looks like Extira by Jeld-Wen may be a good product.@@rmm9676
Such a simple test...but so informative...I´ll even give mdf a second chance after seeing your video, Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
A little epoxy goes a long way. While I don't see that material showing up at my local lunberyard.
Anyone know where this can be purchased?
Ummmm what was brand #2 called?
Interesting and useful analysis but I think there could have been a comment or two about what can or cannot be done to make regular mdf water repellent or, if there is no such thing, then a statement of this fact. For example, is there any spray-on product that might be effective? Of course, I can look into this easily on Google and RUclips…. Nice video!
Excellent point. I’ve heard some people use polyurethane or shellac as two possibilities. I’m sure either would be a ,AJ or improvement for water resistance but what they’d do for mdf as a working surface (very slick) is another question. Cheers.
Used it for years
i like yo hair!
How would you laminate them together to make a bench top for the Cosman bench? I would think that wood glue or any other PVA would never adhere to the faces.
Glues very well.
*versus
😮
In the UK we have a product called Medite Tricoya Extreme that is excellent, if a bit pricey. The manufacturer guarantees it for 50 years if used outdoors above ground, 25 years below ground.
And its MDF?
@@RobCosmanWoodworking yes, the stuff is insane, far beyond water resistant mdf. Though it’s around £200 a sheet or more in uk, where good quality moisture resistant is around 1/3 the price. Very much a get what you pay for….
What brands are available and how and where can I get them?
I use MDF a lot and I always hit it with a few coats of polyurethane and it seems to hold up. But I haven’t seen the water resistance brand in Australia I will be checking around to see if we carry it over here. As always thanks for sharing this one Rob it’s great to know it’s out there.
You can get it from DMK Forest Products in Brisbane and Gold Coast. Not sure if that is helpful to you.
Also their website only lists 16 and 18mm but you can get 12mm also. Not sure about other thicknesses.
@@TheLindsay720 thanks mate much appreciated
Here in Aus I prefer the WR MDF when making shaker style cabinet doors on the CNC…….it doesn’t fur up as much as the regular MDF making it easier and quicker to prepare for painting, saving time and effort
Really interesting video, Rob. I noticed a difference in your two shooting boards - the larger one has a foundation that is darker than the smaller shooting board. Is the larger shooting board made more recently with some of the Trupan, or does it have a finish (oil, wax, etc.)? As always, thank you for the education.
I skipped through most of the measuring, thinking I would get to the chart at the end showing results of all the tedium. Boy was I surprised!
Love your channel otherwise :)
Thanks Rob - given the exorbitant increases in price of plywood, im going to attempt to make some shop cabinets with MDF - it is significantly cheaper and in my garage shop will not come in contact with any water so i think it is a good choice. I love mdf for sleds as well .. the dust is a bit of a drawback but i use a good respirator and keep it on for at least 15 mins after i cut any mdf to let the dust settle and open the garage door
Not readily available in the US, depending on where you live. Maybe in 5-10 years?
Extira is another brand of exterior rated MDF. I've heard good things about it.
Awesome
Thank you guys
Yes, find “oot” for us. 😜
Thanks for commenting
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Sorry, I was just cutting up. It was a very interesting video about a new material I’m interested in. And it’s not like I didn’t see the maple leaf on your clothes. 😊
There are several brands. Made a store sign from Medex 30 years ago. Still solid sound good shape.
Made vacuum molds from it.
Machines very well. Noticeably stiffer. Main problem was difficulty getting it.
For a lot of applications, it would replace Baltic birch.
Haven’t worked with newer products like being used for outdoor house trim.
Great comment. Thanks for sharing
I see Europeans using a black water resistant mdf for work surfaces. Wish it was available here. Looking for an outdoor (covered porch) table top for a spoilboard, might the Trupan hold up?
Yes I think it would work, but I have not tested it
I did a similar test as I was making cabinet doors for a bathroom. The first set of doors swelled because of the humidity of a shower. My local plywood dealer recommended Armorite and I was shocked and how much better it held up compared to regular MDF.
Thanks for sharing your real world experience
Great little bit of info very interesting would definitely be worth the extra cost IMHO. Think you missed the last/final step/test which to me would have been hitting it with a mallet on the sword edge to see if it crumbled or stayed together.
The other test I would have liked to see is elongation - the wet end did expand in the thickness dimension, and might have expanded in the length (or width) dimension also but that was not measured.
I’m in England and have used a product called tricoya but it’s pretty expensive 👍
Is it Water resistant MDF too?
No tricya is 100 % waterproof.
It's very expensive.
We buried a piece under ground for about a year. Dug it up and apart from being dirty and wet it's dementions were perfect.
I suggested to you a while ago to try it on the Cosman work bench
Do these waterproof types have PFAs or other concerning chemicals in them?
No clue
Rob, which MDF do you use on your workbench? It appears to be darker like the one tested above.
We now use the darker water resistant MDF (Trupan)
Would have been interesting to see how it cut after being soaked vs a new piece
Sorry we didn't do that but we were thinking a project getting wet after you built it so there would be no need to re-cut it
How can I get your tools in England. I don't see any on amazon
We don’t sell on Amazon. You can order directly from us or our UK distributor, Classic Hand tools
Greetings from the BIG SKY. I used MDF for the chair seat in a chair I made because of the stability of the material. I sure hope it doesn't get wet.
Yes you dont want that
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I guess I'm ok with it, but my heirs I hope don't get this chair wet or they'll learn about MDF.
OMG! I haven't watched one of your videos in quite a while. What happened to your head? Cut your hair ya dang hippie! 🤗
Thanks for that video Rob - currently working on a project that had exterior grade MDF panels specified as part of an exterior adornment. My colleagues and I had our suspicions on whether it could handle the local environment, so we lobbied for a change in materials. The materials were changed, thankfully I'm thinking now!
Rob. Love your channel I learned a lot from watching your work great job keep it up. I work making signs the water resistant MDF is a great product. They also have the MDO, which is similar to plywood also water resistant. We use it for signs on billboards projects. Very stable product