🎹Kawai K-800 Upright Piano Review & Demo - Kawai K Series🎹
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Piano Background - 0:58
Piano Sound - 3:35
Piano Action - 14:20
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Introduction:
In this piano review video, Stu Harrison of Merriam Pianos guides takes an in-depth look at Kawai’s K800 Upright Grand Piano. It’s the ultimate vertical piano from Japan by many accounts, bringing to bear Kawai’s full engineering and manufacturing prowess in a single model
It features Sostenuto, Agraffes, premium solid spruce soundboard (tapered), Millennium III Action, Royal George Felt Hammers w/ Mahogany cores, oversized music desk, heavy-duty solid brass casters, and much more.
Thanks for stopping by to watch the video, we hope you enjoy!
The Sound:
The tone of the Kawai K800 is colourful, warm, and dynamic. It has a huge volume range, and a widely varied tonal palette throughout that range. The bass is big, subtly brassy, and sustaining. The instrument has virtually no ‘meow’ in the mid-range; by that I mean that it’s bloom is extremely short and almost undetectable - it reaches its full projection almost instantly and then sustains with remarkable evenness throughout the range of the instrument.
The action feels fluid and grand-like, and double-hits and missed notes are non-existent. A testament to both excellent factory prep as well as good geometry on the action.
The sound is bolstered by duplex scaling - both front and rear - on the entire upper half of the piano. The front duplexing is provided by the capo bars themselves, where the rear is unbraided. This allows for plenty of textural harmonics and really helps to simulate a treble normally only achieved on a grand model.
Action:
The K800 uses the Carbon-Fibre reinforced Millennium III action, an action which has received near universal acclaim as one of the best actions on the piano market today, regardless of price point. Although I tend not to be a fan of super tall cap-stand designs in larger uprights, Kawai somehow manages to achieve a level of control and responsiveness that I would normally expect out of a 48-50”, without giving up the dynamic response one expects from a 53”.
The keys are solid, the travel distance is neither deep nor shallow, and the repetition speed is consistent or better than other premium 52 and 53” uprights.
Other Features:
Outside of the top capo bars which provide the duplex scaling, the mid and bass ranges of the piano use Agraffes to control distortion, false beating, and tuning stability.
The piano is also equipped with sostenuto, a nice addition to higher-level classical players. The normal middle pedal function of muting is relegated to a lever under the left gable and is easily reachable and equally easy to use.
Conclusions:
The piano certainly delivers lots of sound, with a responsive action, and plenty of colour. Missing from the K800 is a sense of intimacy that I enjoy on some of my most favorite upright pianos...but in speaking with many pianists, I’m in the minority on this - the closer to a grand experience they can get on an upright, the better. And in this regard, the K800 comes the closest in terms of touch and overal tonal response than I’ve witnessed from any upright outside of the Steingraeber or C. Bechstein top-end uprights. Mind you, now we’re tripling the price over the k800.
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Видеоклипы
The only detailed review of Kawai K-800 on youtube!
You have the most in-depth and understandable piano reviews on RUclips. You also play great thank you
We appreciate that, and glad you found it useful!
Very helpful. Thank you
great review ! fantastic upright !
Thanks so much! I agree with the sentiment. It is one of the closest things you will find to a grand piano experience in an upright form. :)
I wish you would tour the piano visually, showing all sides and moving parts, like covers, stands, etc...
That piano sounds amazing!
This video makes me want to trade in my ‘92 CX-2D for a near new K800. Such an obsession and a nice to have…
I have been going back and forth between your videos on the K800, and Hoffman T122. I listen to the Hoffman and I say "Yes, I really like that treble", then I listen to the K800 and say "but I really like that K800 sound as well.". I haven't played either so I know that would be the ultimate deciding factor.
I have to say that I grew up thinking that any baby grand, regardless of quality would sound better than an upright. This comes from only hearing the cheap uprights in the elementary school music rooms and such. I have a Yamaha GH1 from the mid 1980s that I grew up practicing on that my parents bought used and then gave me when I bought my first house. Buying a new piano isn't high on the list, but after hearing the K800 and T122, I may consider an upright if there ever comes a time to replace the Yamaha.
Thanks, Stu for all of the great videos! Would love the see a side by side comparison of the K800 and T122 or even the 128 🙂
I second this, Stu. Appreciate it if you'd compare the T122 with the K800
Very nice, very informative. I am looking for a good piano at around 20K$CAD but loving classical and romantic music so much I feel like this Kawai and the Yamaha YUS5 for instance have maybe too bright of a tone for that type of music? What do you think and what smaller European competitors would you recommend?
Lovely piano, with big sound and some interesting features for an upright.
As always Stu comments are great. Something I would like is to have is a view of the interior of the piano, showing the duple scale, how the dostenuto works, This applies not only to this piano review, I mean the lack of viewing the guts of the pianos that you review
Thanks for tuning in and writing in with your suggestions! Some internal shots of the piano would certainly be quite interesting and help vividly display some of the inner workings that are often discussed. I will pass the suggestion on to our production team! Thanks again and all the best! :)
I'm curious how the Millennium III action compares to the C. Bechstein actions, specifically the Academy series silver. I have a K5 with the Millennium III now, and think it's beautiful. I'm thinking of moving to the A124. Any thoughts??
Great and interesting review. As it sounds in this recording, treble seems to be somehow over-emphasized on the K 800. The K 300 and K 500 appear to sound more balanced - just about perfect, perhaps hitting the sweet spot of this design. Looking forward to listen to these live at our local Kawai dealer.
I played the K500 and the dealer said the only difference was the casing design. I also played the K400 and the top was fine. The bass was terrible, but that is a size issue.
thanks for this sir
You're very welcome! :)
Nice. All K-800 come with sostenuto pedal as default?
Damn I want one
The K800 is nothing short of amazing! :)
As always a great review, I was expecting that Stu would Shaw the duplex scale, the back and the Millenium III action, hammers etc, may be next time, may be I am getting to technical, anyway, very interesting, thank you.
Thanks for tuning in! It would be quite interesting to do a video that shows the inner workings of all of the instruments. Thanks for the idea! We will do our best to tackle that. :)
Thank you! At last a piano shop which mics its pianos properly. Why oh why do so many piano shops put pianos on RUclips recorded on an iPhone or worse? Bizarre. Nice playing btw. Jazzy!
I agree ! many reviews are beyond horribly recorded !
That duplex scaling is really interesting. Is it the same concept basically as on the guzheng? Where a larger part of the string opposite the bridge sympathetically resonates with the plucked side?
Nice comparison :) Some duplex can even be tuned / adjusted !
It is really hard to get an idea of tone because the prepping that the technians will do for you can change that competely. You can get the Kawai with this bright sound or I played one that sounded much like a German Romantic piano just because of the prepping.
That is certainly the case with virtually all piano models. At the end of the day, a given design and consortion of materials will yield a specific range of musical potential on multiple fronts (i.e. tonal profile, dynamic capability, lightness/heaviness of touch, etc.). But, as you've pointed out, it is up to a skilled technician and the preferences of the player as to where the piano falls on the spectrum of each of those elements, which is achieved through prepping the instrument.
I love it. I live in an environment where the climate changes hour by hour from one extreme to another. This definitely goes on my wish list.
Love your videos, very helpful! I’m looking for a new upright piano for my children. Picking between Kawai K800 and Yamaha YUS5. Which one is better? Which one should I get?
Follow.I am thinking to get a piano for my children as well but it really hard to make decision in between k800 and yus 5.Any suggestion please.
Swee li chek In the end I got the K800, because the price is cheaper than YUS5. Don’t worry about seeking advice from this RUclips Channel, they never reply, not helpful at all. Just enjoy the video and maybe seek advice from your local piano store. Just give you a price point, I got my K800 for $15,500 Australian dollar. (Including delivery, and two tuning). I hope this is helpful for you.
badboy116 Hi ,thank you so much for your suggestions it was really help .I make my mind now.
@@sweelichek2220 My suggestion is always the same. Find 3 different examples of the same piano and spend a lot of time playing them. really, don't listen to the dealers. Make up your own mind. The reason to find 3 different examples is 1) each piano will sound different than the same model/brand 2) each piano will be prepared different and how a piano is prepared makes a huge impact on how it sounds 3) pianos sound different in different rooms and different parts of a room. Whatever you buy, buy the floor model, not one coming out of a box. And know that when you get it home, it'll sound different than in the room where you bought it.
How does this large upright differ from k300 interns of mid and highs . I’ve heard bigger uprights can sound thin Or muffled in that regard ?
From what I've played they aren't muddy or muffled in sound, even in the very low bass. In-fact there's a crazy amount of separation in the bass notes, especially when the sound is so thick/rich, they don't blur together, it's very clear.
This or Yamaha SU7?
Hi Stu, thanks for your wonderful review on the K800. Since Merriam Music have both Kawai K series (particularly K500 and K800) and W.Hoffmann V and T series (particularly V131 and T128). I would like to get an unbiased thoughts from you on which upright piano to get. As you have mentioned, K800 is right at the top of the Japanese (at least Kawai) upright piano, how is this compare to the Bechstein built W.Hoffmann V131 and T128. E.g. action, tone, sound. Would be great if you can provide the your thoughts given the insights you have. Thank you very much.
I am considering the Kawai and W. Hoffmann T 128 as well. Both are great pianos.
The Hoffmann P series, which is not much more expensive than the T series, would be the best option by far. The P126 is likely one the best upright pianos you can get at this price range. The Kawai sounds louder but the Hoffman P is more refined and has a better action. Above this you would need to upgrade to a German made uprights with Renner action at a higher price point. But you need to try them to yourself.
@@ampac Thanks for the advice, we ended up with T128 as the piano shop doesn't stock P series. We waited 4 months for T128 due to COVID-19 limited shipment. Very happy with the W.Hoffmann, no regret and we really like the action and bell tone.
Yamaha P-515 vs RD-2000 vs MP11SE please! =)
Claude P. what style do you play more?
What's the name of the lovely tune you start playing at 11:24? LOVE Kawais, by the way!
I think he quoted something from 'darn that dream'
@@chibuezengoziThanks for the suggestion! I listened to a few versions of "Darn That Dream" on RUclips, but I don't hear that melodic line in them. If you think of anything else it might be, let me know!
can you inform us the condensor michrophone you use to capture this K800 sound? thanks
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I believe it may have been a stereo pair of Rode NT5 microphones, but I can't say for certain as I was not present for this shoot.
I have a K300. Had a technician at home to do a bit of serious intonation and regulation job with it. It‘s fine, but I would like to habe some „bigger“ instrument. Now i‘m thinking between the K800 or maybe a GL-10. But hard for me to find the space for the grand. Is the GL-10 better than the K800?
K800 or a GL-40. GL-10 is just not worth it as a musical instrument for me.
K800 spanks GL10s and 20s all day everyday
@@donkgated8074 what do you mean exactly?
@@chihirom8316 I was referring to the sound, presumably. But having now tried and played on a GL-10, I take my original statement back. For its size, it's alright - and you get the benefit of a grand piano action which for me is always preferable to an upright.
Hi, just bought the K800. I fiited it with ATX4 (which is activated by the middle pedal) but the sostenuto pedal is no longer working. How do I get it to work?
Congrats on your K800 ATX4! I am not entirely sure to be honest. We have never retrofitted an ATX4 system on a K800, so I am not sure how an installer/tech would navigate that particular obstacle.
Thanks for yet another comprehensive review. I'm considering purchasing the K500 based on your wonderful video review and now wonder if the K500 has a sostenuto pedal like the K800 -- or does the middle pedal just act as a muting pedal? I'm also wondering if you are going to add the Kawai Aures line of hybrids in your stores? As I recently downsized from a house to a condo, I'm trying to decide whether to buy an upright like the K500 or K800, or hybrid in the Aures line like the K500 Aures, or a digital piano like the new Kawai CA79-99 models, or a high-end hybrid like the Novus10. And, whatever I end up with, I hope to someday develop my pianistic skills so I can play nearly half as well as Stu...
According to the brochure, the K-800 is the only one in the K-series line with the sostenuto pedal.
kawaius.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/K-Series-Brochure.pdf
I’m not sure what your budget is but I checked the price on both. 24,895 for the k800 and 15,795 for the k500. They both seem like great pianos. Decisions decisions lol. Kawai sure doesn’t make it easy to decide!
@@jacobsaylor8088 I was able to negotiate brand new Kawai K500 at two dealers for 9 grand and a new m K800 for 12 grand in one particular dealer . Have to know how to negotiate
@@gustavopaulette3496 where did you negotiate at?! Lol I will buy from them instantly
When I tried the K500 it had a mute rather than the sustinuto pedal. The K800 has the sus
Tomorrow i''ll buy a 2nd hand Piaggero np11 (3200Turkish Liras = 150$), but i explore this premiums 😀
Very nice! Enjoy your NP11! :)
Oh my god the bass...
I’m going to swap my 1980 Yam U3X for one of these. Hopefully last me 30+ years!
Dear all, will it be too loud for a small room? My U1 is extremely loud =p
It is significantly louder than a U1. But you can make a small room sound great for uprights this big or mid-sized grand pianos. Just be aware that your problem is the room, not the piano...
5:41
Thanks for tuning in! :)
How does K800 compare to GX3 in sounds? (Though I know this is not a fair comparison since GX3 is a grand and has almost double price than K800.) If I want to pursue a better sound, is such upgrade so prominent that worth the money?
I would love it if @merriammusic did these types of comparisons as well. What is (in their opinion) the grand equivalent in terms of tone, build, and feel, to the K800, or W.Hoffmann T122/8, C. Bechstein A124, etc and what is the price difference between that upright and comparable grand. What do you give up by going with the upright over the grand?
Plus I just enjoy hearing two different pianos and picking out the sound differences
I would say that the GL30 ist the equivalent of the K500. Double the Price but not double as good 😉. I chose the K500 due to size
Royal George felt is not included in the Asian model.
U meant those shipped for sale in Asia region will not have the Royal George felt?
@@nstarbaby Yes
Thanks! That explains why I'm not reading any reference to this Royal George felt in Australian K800s.
Please close the lid while do the review.
No
The sound is quite amazing, rich and colourful. Though I cannot quite imagine playing classical music on this instrument. I think Kawai (and to some extent Yamaha) are best suited for pop/rock, cocktail music, and jazz. I find German pianos more versatile and particularly apt for classical and romantic music. There is a certain sharpness to the upper treble that is absent from German pianos. Whilst the rich and colourful sound of the Kawai sounds beautiful, I also find it a bit mushy lacking clarity. I'm not sure if I would find it very satisfying on a long term basis. At this price point, I would probably still prefer a (smaller) Seiler, Sauter, Schimmel or August Förster which are all in a similar price category.
Tonal preference is a matter of personal preference and subjectivity of course. With that said, the K800 is a spectacular piano with a wide tonal and dynamic range, which makes it a fantastic choice for classical playing in my opinion. However, it is a very personal matter of course. :)
@@MerriamPianos Exactly! And for playing pop/rock and jazz, a German piano might not even be the best choice. To me, particularly the Yamaha is quite evocative of so many pop songs where Yamaha instruments were probably used for recording. So there is a good argument for Yamaha or Kawai if you want to replicate that well-known sound. I know of quite some fairly successful if not famous musicians that have a Kawai or Yamaha grand at home as a practicing instrument. In any event, these are very well crafted instruments. Why not make a comparison with, e.g. a Schimmel, to work out the tonal differences?
If you play music with complicated harmonies, you might enjoy this as a comfortable practice instrument. Sounds great when playing Scriabin, Messiaen, and operatic piano reductions. Perhaps a precise piano would record quite well, but for everyday use, any 16th century to contemporary music sounds fine on the K-800. We have to remember that 200+ year old pianofortes still sound great to many people, even with their limitations, so it’s up to the artist to make instruments sing well enough.
The sound is not very good too bright like a Yamaha . I think the K80E is much better....
I wonder whether muting 1/3 or 2/3 of the duplex scale string sections with felt would improve that at all. I agree it's very bright. German pianos have historically not used duplex scale, or at least haven't emphasized those characteristics. Bösendorfer for instance does have an extra pressure bar on the non-sounding section of the treble strings so that they can sympathetically resonate, but they don't tune the lengths of that section to string harmonics as in a true duplex scale.
People keep trying to talk me into a steinway or a yamaha. Steinways sound too bright for me. Yamahas are stable but kinda basic sounding. Kawai... is just right.
You are mistaken. If you say bright then Bechstein and Seiler comes to mind. Plus, Steinway is in a different league to a Kawai or Yamaha. Look at Petrof
@@hastensavoir7782 Steinway is and isn't in a different league than Yamaha or Kawai. The Shigeru Kawais are in the same league as Steinways. The CF Yamahas are in the same league as Steinway. When Steinway designs lower priced pianos, called Boston and Essex, they have Kawai make Bostons and Pearl River make Essex pianos. You can find Boston and Essex in Steinway showrooms. So, they all play in the same markets.
It's not that simple. Brightness can be easily adjusted by a competent technician - hammer voicing to begin with.
Have you tried the new Bosendorfer VC series? I think you will like it!
@@donkgated8074 voicing has limits. For example, the usual brightness of a Yamaha is mostly a result of its scale design (more string tension than other manufacturers), the type of string wire and the hard hammer felt. A technician can soften the hammers to some extent but will never be able to fully change the bright tonality . So, if you don’t like the tone of a piano that is properly regulated then you should not expect a technician to completely change its nature. You will be in for a major disappointment
@@ampac
Really? I thought the opposite - Yamahas have lower string tension than manufacturers like Kawai.
Yes, voicing has limits (e.g. if the hammers are worn, the quality of hammers etc). Otherwise I'm not sure what kind of piano technicians you deal with. Over 10 years ago my technician transformed my utterly mediocre Alex Steinbach with twangy/harsh metallic tone in a matter of 10-15 minutes. To this day the tone of that piano (onsold to a student) is much more acceptable - much mellower. No, it doesn't sound like a Bechstein Concert 8. Yes, it's much more enjoyable to play.