I totally agree with GoT being number 1! even though it is much more new-player friendly (despite the number of rules) and battle-focused (especially if you use mechanics like tides of battle that implement chance in the game. So you lose the chess aspect of Diplomacy. Also, I'm amazed you mentioned Republic of rome (that I know under Res Publica) it's a game I haven't played in year and is tons of fun!
@@LegendaryTactics Sometimes the original is always the best, but the again there are so many great tabletop games out there to play, and have fun with.
Cosmic Encounter is my favorite from this list. I have also seen many Diplomacy players excel at hidden role games such as Secret Hitler, Two Rooms and a Boom, One Night Werewolf, and Blood on the Clocktower. I also see some similarities in Coup and even Poker.
Sounds like you have great taste in games. I hadn't thought of those social deduction games. Probably skills that work in FTF games apply well in those. Thanks for taking time add your thoughts.
One highly thematic game that I think does The Stab/betrayal as a mechanic well is Nemesis. Everyone has two objectives: a Personal one (usually not bad for anyone else) and a Corporate one (always bad for at least one other player). At some point in the game, players are forced to choose only one of them as their End Game objective to determine whether they win or not. It makes it feel very organic and gives it a lot of buildup!
There is a physical board game called Swords and Sails that I recently found. It uses the simultaneous orders as well as wargaming concepts in a simplified way and I think it is incredible.
Instead of GoT which is an absolutely horrible slog that overstays its welcome at the table, Warrior knights would take the cake for me. It is phenomenal. Your diplomatic options are a bit deeper than diplomacy as not only you have alliances and betrayal, you can literally send a player to china. and he might die in a horrible expedition gone wrong. Truly outstanding design. Also, GoT is a lot like TI4 minus the everything that makes TI4 a good game. imho that is ^^ Great list though.,
Britannia can have a fir amount of inter-player negotiation as each player tries to maximize their nations goals. I would daresay there is far more negotiation in Britannia than in Axis and Allies
Love this list - so many games to play and so little time. Any thoughts on a game that plays like Diplomacy online in which each player makes one turn during an allotted period of time?
I haven't had a chance to dive too deeply into it yet, but an early candidate for one that might fit that description is Supremacy 1914. It's a real-time strategy game.
You forgot "Empires in Arms". Back in the late 80s , that was the natural "upgrade" from Diplomacy for my group. It had all the diplomacy, but in contrast to Diplomacy you had actual armies to put weight behind your arguments and not just a few tokens.
@@LegendaryTactics Well ... I'm probably not the right one to ask, since I'll happily play evergreen games. I guess that depends on your individual perception of what doesn't hold op. I mean ... some would say that an 80-100h long game per definition doesn't hold up. But I gladly play even longer games. That said ... Rumor has it that ADG has gotten the rights back and that a 3rd edition is in the pipeline from the original designer. EiA have provided some of the most epic game experiences I've had.
Oh ... and btw ... I've been playing Empires in Arms regularly for a year now. As the British. Just last monday I managed to get Nelson captured to much smirking from the French player.
Game of Thrones is technically the "most" like Diplomacy. It's very clearly inspired by the same. But I feel like all the changes they made, to make the game original, are worse. They added in so many little features, many involving randomness, that really didn't make the game better. I like how sleek and simple Diplomacy was, but it had that chess-like element because there was no randomness (aside from which country you play as). The nice thing is that it takes less time to finish the game, and you can play with different numbers of players. But still. If I'm in the mood for a game like Game of Thrones, I'd rather play Diplomacy.
There's a game called Baghdad, which I'm told is similar to Dune, in which shifting alliances are made over a map, in this case, the city of Baghdad during the US occupation. I bought it some time ago but haven't a group to play it with. My old gaming group preferred rpg games. Personally, I think diplomacy-like games also have an rpg element in that you decide what kind of powerbroker you're going to be. I would be remiss not to mention an oldie almost as old as the original Diplomacy--Origins of WW II. It's about the political wrangling between major western countries up to the breakout of WW II. I remember playing it in high school and having lots of fun. Someone made a version that covers the far east in the same time frame, 1930s, and yet another version was made on the Origins of WW I, though I never played either. I wish someone would update the graphics and gameplay of Origins of WW II for today's gamers. It's fairly simple but could use new mechanics, maybe cards instead of chucking dice, for example. Similar games on diplomatic development leading to WW II tend to be fiddly with a lot of rules that make your eyes glaze over.
Thanks for this video! I am very much interested in a Diplomacy-alike which runs under 90 minutes and has less rules overhead than Dune. I want to try Battle for Rokugan, but I believe there's little in the way of formal alliances in that game. It's all persuasion through bluffing.
This is a fascinating list, and I agree with most of the suggestions, but I must take issue with A Game of Thrones, which fails the test of greatness in three important ways: 1) AGOT may use Diplomacy's secret orders system, but there the resemblance ends. In Diplomacy, players *must* negotiate. In AGOT, there is no need to. 2) The design fails to evoke the endlessly complex world of Westeros. We are still waiting for a game design that truly taps into GRRM's dark and wonderful world (and it may be impossible). Maybe Ed Beach can recycle his HIS design to fit Westeros. 3) Random events in AGOT have a profound effect on the game. Can you imagine in Dune, Here I Stand, or Diplomacy not being able to levy troops, fight, or move? Yet these things happen routinely in AGOT.
You're absolutely right about the decreased importance of negotiations. Whereas I argue that Diplomacy is 50% press, AGOT is more like 5%. You make some very good points. In a way, the randomness of events makes AGOT more accessible to casual gamers whereas Diplomacy requires a lot more direct skill and tactical acumen. It sounds like you know AGOT quite well and your points are well taken.
@@LegendaryTactics I've played AGOT half a dozen times (with some expansions), seeking the game that everyone else loves. But the randomness and lack of negotiation just puts me off. And with the amazing games on offer today? Where Diplomacy still shines, AGOT seems buried by better designs.
I totally agree with GoT being number 1! even though it is much more new-player friendly (despite the number of rules) and battle-focused (especially if you use mechanics like tides of battle that implement chance in the game. So you lose the chess aspect of Diplomacy. Also, I'm amazed you mentioned Republic of rome (that I know under Res Publica) it's a game I haven't played in year and is tons of fun!
That's one that I don't think too many people have played. The map for GoT is certainly a lot more aesthetically appealing than Diplomacy's map.
RoR with toga, wine and senaten speeches! "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"!
I use to play diplomacy board game back in the early 80's. Thank You Legendary. Liked, and Shared.
No problem. Maybe it's time to try it again!
@@LegendaryTactics Sometimes the original is always the best, but the again there are so many great tabletop games out there to play, and have fun with.
Cosmic Encounter is my favorite from this list. I have also seen many Diplomacy players excel at hidden role games such as Secret Hitler, Two Rooms and a Boom, One Night Werewolf, and Blood on the Clocktower. I also see some similarities in Coup and even Poker.
Sounds like you have great taste in games. I hadn't thought of those social deduction games. Probably skills that work in FTF games apply well in those. Thanks for taking time add your thoughts.
One highly thematic game that I think does The Stab/betrayal as a mechanic well is Nemesis. Everyone has two objectives: a Personal one (usually not bad for anyone else) and a Corporate one (always bad for at least one other player). At some point in the game, players are forced to choose only one of them as their End Game objective to determine whether they win or not. It makes it feel very organic and gives it a lot of buildup!
I really need to play that game. This isn't the first time someone has suggested I play it.
There is a physical board game called Swords and Sails that I recently found. It uses the simultaneous orders as well as wargaming concepts in a simplified way and I think it is incredible.
Nice name. Love the reference. Sounds like a cool game, and like I'll need to try it. I appreciate you suggesting it.
Instead of GoT which is an absolutely horrible slog that overstays its welcome at the table, Warrior knights would take the cake for me. It is phenomenal. Your diplomatic options are a bit deeper than diplomacy as not only you have alliances and betrayal, you can literally send a player to china. and he might die in a horrible expedition gone wrong. Truly outstanding design. Also, GoT is a lot like TI4 minus the everything that makes TI4 a good game. imho that is ^^ Great list though.,
Britannia can have a fir amount of inter-player negotiation as each player tries to maximize their nations goals. I would daresay there is far more negotiation in Britannia than in Axis and Allies
Sounds like fun. Another classic game!
Empires in Arms is a lot like diplomacy set during the Napoleonic Wars, only with far more complex combat
Gotta love Avalon Hill games. We're developing a top 10 list of best Avalon Hill games in the next few weeks. Thanks for your suggestions.
@@LegendaryTactics Empires in Arms and Republic of Rome sure does deserve a spot on a top-10 AH games.
... as does a few other evergreen wargames.
That just went on the to do list. Thank you.
Empire in Arms was just recommended for our Avalon Hill video too. The synchronicity of those comments must mean something!
Love this list - so many games to play and so little time.
Any thoughts on a game that plays like Diplomacy online in which each player makes one turn during an allotted period of time?
I haven't had a chance to dive too deeply into it yet, but an early candidate for one that might fit that description is Supremacy 1914. It's a real-time strategy game.
You forgot "Empires in Arms".
Back in the late 80s , that was the natural "upgrade" from Diplomacy for my group. It had all the diplomacy, but in contrast to Diplomacy you had actual armies to put weight behind your arguments and not just a few tokens.
Good call. Do the game mechanics still hold up today?
@@LegendaryTactics
Well ... I'm probably not the right one to ask, since I'll happily play evergreen games.
I guess that depends on your individual perception of what doesn't hold op.
I mean ... some would say that an 80-100h long game per definition doesn't hold up. But I gladly play even longer games.
That said ... Rumor has it that ADG has gotten the rights back and that a 3rd edition is in the pipeline from the original designer.
EiA have provided some of the most epic game experiences I've had.
Oh ... and btw ... I've been playing Empires in Arms regularly for a year now. As the British.
Just last monday I managed to get Nelson captured to much smirking from the French player.
Not a board game, but Conspiracy is a great mobile app implementation for Diplomacy. It's very cool.
I've heard great things about it.
Great video. Love most all of these titles but you missed Warzone! The best Diplomacy style game you never heard of.
It's true, I haven't heard of it. Until now. Thanks.
Game of Thrones is technically the "most" like Diplomacy. It's very clearly inspired by the same. But I feel like all the changes they made, to make the game original, are worse. They added in so many little features, many involving randomness, that really didn't make the game better. I like how sleek and simple Diplomacy was, but it had that chess-like element because there was no randomness (aside from which country you play as). The nice thing is that it takes less time to finish the game, and you can play with different numbers of players. But still. If I'm in the mood for a game like Game of Thrones, I'd rather play Diplomacy.
In terms of all the elements of the game, it's definitely a close cousin with a fancy outfit on.
There's a game called Baghdad, which I'm told is similar to Dune, in which shifting alliances are made over a map, in this case, the city of Baghdad during the US occupation. I bought it some time ago but haven't a group to play it with. My old gaming group preferred rpg games. Personally, I think diplomacy-like games also have an rpg element in that you decide what kind of powerbroker you're going to be.
I would be remiss not to mention an oldie almost as old as the original Diplomacy--Origins of WW II. It's about the political wrangling between major western countries up to the breakout of WW II. I remember playing it in high school and having lots of fun. Someone made a version that covers the far east in the same time frame, 1930s, and yet another version was made on the Origins of WW I, though I never played either. I wish someone would update the graphics and gameplay of Origins of WW II for today's gamers. It's fairly simple but could use new mechanics, maybe cards instead of chucking dice, for example. Similar games on diplomatic development leading to WW II tend to be fiddly with a lot of rules that make your eyes glaze over.
Sounds like a keeper.
What software do you use for all the digital implementations of the games?
Tabletop Simulato. Here's how you access the gamesr: ruclips.net/video/C2X6vhmHwq8/видео.html&ab_channel=LegendaryTactics
I would actually argue that Game of Thrones is a derivative of Dune, but regardless, these are cool games, some of which I must check out.
Thanks for this video! I am very much interested in a Diplomacy-alike which runs under 90 minutes and has less rules overhead than Dune. I want to try Battle for Rokugan, but I believe there's little in the way of formal alliances in that game. It's all persuasion through bluffing.
I'm a real fan of bluffing games. Not sure why they appeal so much, but they do. I'll check that one out. Thanks for suggesting it.
Would love to join a game of GoT the board game online of you guys are hosting one in the future
same!
That could be a lot of fun. Have you got much experience at it?
@@LegendaryTactics yes I've played my fair share!
This is a fascinating list, and I agree with most of the suggestions, but I must take issue with A Game of Thrones, which fails the test of greatness in three important ways:
1) AGOT may use Diplomacy's secret orders system, but there the resemblance ends. In Diplomacy, players *must* negotiate. In AGOT, there is no need to.
2) The design fails to evoke the endlessly complex world of Westeros. We are still waiting for a game design that truly taps into GRRM's dark and wonderful world (and it may be impossible). Maybe Ed Beach can recycle his HIS design to fit Westeros.
3) Random events in AGOT have a profound effect on the game. Can you imagine in Dune, Here I Stand, or Diplomacy not being able to levy troops, fight, or move? Yet these things happen routinely in AGOT.
You're absolutely right about the decreased importance of negotiations. Whereas I argue that Diplomacy is 50% press, AGOT is more like 5%. You make some very good points. In a way, the randomness of events makes AGOT more accessible to casual gamers whereas Diplomacy requires a lot more direct skill and tactical acumen. It sounds like you know AGOT quite well and your points are well taken.
@@LegendaryTactics I've played AGOT half a dozen times (with some expansions), seeking the game that everyone else loves. But the randomness and lack of negotiation just puts me off. And with the amazing games on offer today? Where Diplomacy still shines, AGOT seems buried by better designs.
@@nathanielmerchant3286 Here here
Grpgnard here: Kremlin and RoR.
Nice! So enjoy the hardcore negotiation games, eh?
No love for The Kings Dilemma, huh?
I enjoyed The Kings Dilemma. The three other players I was with did not enjoy it as much haha.
Do you know if it was inspired by Diplomacy at all? I haven't had the chance to play it yet.
Canadian accent detected.
Thanks eh!
DUNE!!!