The Federation, through being largely an Earth-centric organization, is traumatized by the horrors of the Eugenics wars, and this damage colors every interaction Starfleet has for centuries to come. This is internally pretty consistent so far as I figure. Their argument against genetic modification isn't rational, and it's never framed as such.
@@sanhcman666 I could imagine that some of them silently agree, enough that it really doesn't receive substantial challenge. Trek lore only shows a few examples of successful genetic modification on scale, and most of those are adversary regimes. (Dominion, Gorn, Kzinti/Ferasan) and wildly dangerous and unsuccessful much of the time (Klingon) Many minor races likely accept this fact as simply a minor price of Federation membership and don't really seriously question it, even if they disagree.
It might not be actively framed as such, but there’s certainly a rational argument to be made against genetic modification. It’s the same as performance enhancing drugs in sports. It triggers a rat race which quickly devolves into ever more modifications while at the same time taking away what it means to be human, or Vulcan, or any other sentient for that matter. And it’s fiendishly difficult to prevent some elite (in practice Starfleet officers) from getting preferential treatment in this regard. Since genetic modification is usually inheritable you almost immediately create a ruling caste while the rabble is unaltered. Federation ideals are all about the betterment of one’s self, but with the guarantee that everyone has equal opportunity purely based on innate talent. Genetic modification cheats this system and does not create a better world. And let’s not forget there’s no complete ban on genetic modification. It’s fairly commonly used for treatment of diseases and malformations. I remember that Miral Torres was treated for a malformed spine this way. Anyway, if you want to read more on the subject I can highly recommend Trekonomics from Manu Saadia. It’s mainly about economics of Star Trek, but it also touches on the subject of genetic modification and the Federation’s ban on it.
Honestly, it always came off as the people doing the modification being idiots. Like they screwed up horribly with making overly-aggressive, strong, and ambitious geniuses, but instead of fixing the flaw they said "This is fine." then let everyone suffer the consequences again and again.
Overall I loved watching this series, brings a vibe of "true star trek" as Roddenberry thought it up, but with a modern twist. Only the episode with the singing (space rhapsody?) wasn't for me, although I could appreciate it... Great Video, would love some more thoughts on SNW.
I can see where you are coming from, but I thought the episode order for 7-8-9 was so well done with incoming transport been in my nightmares now but surrounded by fun + the episode new is was stupid and went with it without the oh it's a dream or not real stuff other shows do, Deff Buffy vibes so maybe the nostalgia made me love it, or the Kpop klingons 😂😂😂
This episode also has a really great coda in the Lower Decks crossover episode. No spoilers, but it's mentioned by Boimler and Mariner that, in their time, Una is literally the face of Starfleet, the person on recruitment posters. Her entire career, she was scared she didn't deserve to be in Starfleet, but the verdict of the future is that she's one of the all-time best that ever was. Her reaction to finding that out is subtle (if you haven't been following her arc you might miss it) but extremely powerful.
but Number One is terran she is Illiyran and that's kind of the problem I have with this concept as a whole. While a good court room drama is goes more with the DS9 episode based off if Bashir when tjat suddenly became a problem.
13:16 Not a lawyer myself, but generally from what I have heard from my lawyer friends you don't want to put the defendant on the stand, almost always. There are just too many things you can say or do wrong, and for this case be as open and shut as it is. You could easily compound the offense or implicate others in what happened.
Caveat: you don't put them on the stand *if they're guilty and you're arguing an affirmative defense/justification strategy... if they're innocent you almost always want to put them on the stand
@@genlando327plays2 In this case Una is guilty, at least in a technical sense. I don't really get how they missed this when making the video - it's literally in the episode that someone suggests Una take the stand to better appeal to be the panel and Una's lawyer demonstrates how in just a few questions she could be forced to implicate herself and others for additional charges.
TV? Is that some streaming service? Traditional broadcast has its advantages that could had served new Trek well, such as making sure it targeted a general audience, less serialized (Discovery and Picard) to allow viewers who had missed an episode to pick up. And more episodes (with perhaps less quality) per season. However the streaming design I think is still trying to be perfected, finding the right balance for that medium. In TOS a lot of the Shatnering wasn't because they were bad actors, but we're use to Theater acting, for an audience in a large room, with questionable accustics. So... The long speech with... A pause. Was necessary, while TV was a new acting dynamic. Streaming over broadcast also creates new and different dynamics. Which I felt they didn't quite get with Discovery and Picard, where they basically made a 5 hour movie a season. While SNW is getting the balance between individual plots per episode and giving an arch for the season. DS9 was actually ahead of its time, as it is wonderfully streamable.
@@toddfraser3353 Well, it restricts its audience -- I do believe there are a lot more people who would be interested in new trek than are willing to subscribe to paramount+. There are so many streaming services these days each of which tends to have 1 or 2 things I would be interested in. I'd rather have one place with 10.
If you'd watched SNW from the beginning (even without the ties to Discovery) more of the episode would have made more sense - so I hope at some point you do go back and watch. As for the validity or sensibility of the arguments - the prosecution was attempting to destroy the defense's case by opening with a witness (Admiral April) who made his decisions with regards to Una solely based on the law. The defense forced April's hand by showing the hypocrisy of April's decision making and Starfleet's on inconsistent application of its highest laws. The tribunal had to throw it out. First round to the defense.
@@LoreReloadedI am not a fan of Disco (too many lore/canon issues for me), nor the first two seasons of Picard. However, I really like SNW. Sure, there are some episodes that are lacking, but that is to be expected, and I didn't find any to be terrible. There may or may not (I'll let you decide) be an homage to WH40K in one episode. Overall, I am quite pleased with this series and I am looking forward to your takes on it.
SNW and Lower Decks really make me believe trek is on the mend. Heck, even discovery season 4 finally felt like a trek story. A very poorly told one but it was certainly trying. With Disco and Picard wrapping up, I think if SNW and LD are allowed to be examples of what works, Trek is heading back into a good age.
The power of this episode tends to be......amplified with the context of the previous episodes. And I agree with how well DSC era writers write Vulcans
Honestly after watching all the new trek I love it all . Even if there are inconsistencies between the series. Enterprise brings up DNA modification in a few episodes. Other species have done it right
Not sure why people mix them up, you don't go around saying that you're the parent of your dad, or the aunt of his sister. The only family designation that's not binomial is cousin.
The Vulcan lawyer (I can't remember his name) was just as insufferable, maybe even more so, as Sisko's Vulcan nemisis from his academy days (Take Me Out to the Holosuite). I couldn't stand his smugness. I was quite delighted when he got outsmarted by Una's lawyer. I still have no idea what Batel was doing on JAG duty (other than as a plot device), but whatever.
Doesn't Phlox have something to say about how other races (including other eventual Federation members) handle genetic modifications and are 'mature enough to use them responsibility' during the Augments-arc in Enterprise?
He mentions that several races he knows of (including his own) use "minor modifications" for medical purposes. It seems (I'm just trying to hash this together so it's not sacred by any means) at the time of Enterprise Humanity had banned genetic modification entirely. By the time of TNG there are confirmed cases of genetic modification in utero to correct health issues with the foetus. So, presumably, some time between Flox mentioning it and TNG (possibly with the formation of the Federation) "Genetic modification" took on a more specific meaning with regards to prejudice and it is only enhancements/deviation from the baseline, not medical corrections, that are frowned upon. Which does make sense on several fronts. Firstly, the Eugenics Wars weren't caused by Doctors using GM to correct things like a malformed spine. They were caused by people being enhanced, so it makes sense that any caution/fear/prejudice would remain far longer regarding enhancements. Secondly, this is the natural evolution of something becoming acceptable in a society after being considered unacceptable - it becomes accepted in stages, one small step at a time. Kind of like how many societies have, over the last century or so, gone from hunting down and castrating/executing gay men to "don't ask, don't tell", then "We won't ask but I guess you don't have to hide it any more either", to "Okay, I suppose you can have legal partner rights but Marriage? That's a straight people thing. No." and, most recently, "I must introduce my gay friends so they can get married and I can go to a gay wedding!"
The appeal to the sense of law and rules is certainly more Measure of a Man than Drumhead, but the case as a whole lines up a lot more with The Drumhead.
....When you're working the loading dock, out in the field building...You're getting YOUR hands dirty, you're sweating from the labor and dealing with things the CEO has no idea of what You really do. "We build houses for customers" says the CEO and board. People who probably have never done the kind of work you and your crew have been doing for years. They see papers that the people in accounting or some other very white collar level of the corporation. Some bureaucrat writes up employee rules and safety manuals that have No Idea of Real Life. They see that YOU were late with this or that..and 'By God, they want to know why you can't do a simple job..and No Excuses!" Employees don't leave companies, they leave bad management...the Marquis left the corporation and 'For Some Reason'...they don't know Why. The federation was trying to 'Keep the Peace' with the Cardassians..by they didn't care for or want any other colony in the area but Theirs. The Federation refused to see the conflict from the Marquis' POV. Its easy to be content and pissed off at others who aren't on the Upper levels of Paradise and as Eddington was saying 'Who leaves paradise?"
This is something I do have to admit I hate in regards to Trek because in books which are beta cannon but where written by people with alpha cannon knowledge namely the book Vulcan's Glory by D.C. Fontana Number One's origins were always that she came from a race that genetically modified its people in fact her being called Number One wasn't a term of endearment like we see Captain Picard calling Commander Rider his number one. Una was called Number One because she was the very best of her line if you will someone's idea of a peefect being. The reason this is a problem is because D.C. Fontana was apart of Trek creation from the beginning and while Eugenics Wars are talked about in TOS it's not brought up as a problem in Star Fleet until DS9 decades after the fact. And the big problem is Strange New Worlds is set before The Original Series so why it is it a problem in DS9 and bigger question why is it a problem in SNW when in TOS is wasn't a problem. For me this is why later Trek and New Trek I have problems with from a continuity stand point, it isn't perfect but it does show the writers at times might read up on Trek but they don't quite understand certain parts.
The problem with legalizing genetic modification is that it creates a class system: homo superior with their greater strength and intelligence and whatever, and homo sapiens with whatever nature provided. It's a pretty inevitable outcome, one that most species that can make genetic modifications probably went through at some point. So, most species probably wete willing enough to agree to ban the practice, as long as exceptions were made for correcting genetic defects (as was done with Miral Torres).
Bruh... Geneticist here. No, that isn't exactly how this all works. The entire genome is super complex and there almost always unforeseen complications to anything that you modify. To TL/DR *Most* of what we can do could be done in nature given a long enough time frame with selective breeding. The world has been around for billions of years. The most profound changes you can do usually are super detrimental. That is why those mutations are not common currently in our population today. For example: In making the person the strongest they can their connective tissue gives out at the age 25. Now they are in a wheel chair at best. Or you make them super smart but (which is problematic to begin with because what do we mean when we say smart? More neurons? More dendrites? all of these kinds of modifications could easily lead to fatal neurological problems... or a weak immune system. or their liver fails before puberty.) As for genetic modification always being bad and make super advanced super humans.... What one could do, if a couple, or so people wanted to have a kid together, and wanted to edit the genome. Get 16 eggs and 16 sperm, look at the genomes of all of them. Edit all 32 into the "best" possible combinations and come out with 8 individual zygotes to implant. If both parents had brown eyes none of the fetuses would have blue eyes for instance. However, every combination you make *could* have naturally arisen. But statically you are getting each kid would be a one in a several hundred billion. As for *genetic defects*... um what you have outlined what do you consider a genetic defect? I understand where one side is with Miral Torres. How do you feel about Julian Bashir?
Worf's argument in a nutshell. Now consider this. Andorians handle cold better than humans. Vulcans are stronger and smarter than humans, as well as superior hearing. Why are there genes allowed into Starfleet if someone with gene modification bringing them on par with these beings cannot? How can inter-species breeding be permitted when it will result in something superior than a base line human? And they do gene tweaking to remove defects before birth. Is that not a permanent genetic alteration? My family is very prone to heart disease. Before I am born I got treated for that. Now I am an augment according to Federation law. (No I was not treated it is on my mind due to the defibrillator vest I am wearing.)
@@Giganfan2k1 Bruh - you're not a geneticist. Don't pretend otherwise. You spouted basic high school level gene theory that is largely correct, but not accurate. An actual geneticist would know the difference.
@@willdavis3802 What is a codon? Central dogma? 3 prime to 4 prime? What the structure in the mitochondria that doubles the amount of ATP produced by the Krebs cycle?
@@Giganfan2k1 An amino acid sequence set, DNA->RNA->Protein, chemical orientation for nucleic acid strings, and at least in part, the cytosyl in most organisms.
They dont understand Sedition. Sedition is any Act causing government, law, constitution, sovereign to be held in hatred and contempt. That means every act including government, law, constitution, sovereign requires consensus or government, law, constitution, sovereign be held in hatred and contempt.
As someone who didn't like Discovery and didn't like Picard Season 1 or 2, the fact that Strange New Worlds was created by the same people as those other two is shocking. It's such a great series. I never watch OG trek, it's just kinda hokey to me.
The federation has always sucked in understanding the individual and how there's no one shoe size fits all solutions in this case is genetic engineering and the terrans fear of it and the same goes for capitalism or free market enterprise which the Terrans and the Federation abandoned but the Ferengi embraced and perfected to the point that they didn't suffer devastating world wars.
I think one thing you don’t take into account regarding Una being gene modded is that her parents themselves were gene modded as well which means whatever gene mods they had she inherited those gene mods so she was screwed before birth in that alone. So it really is just her being Illyrian that’s the issue essentially
I feel a better issue to bring up with Genetic Engineering would be the fallibility of the one doing it. Banning it or regulating it extremely due to the risks of creating a class system of engineered and un engineered people, the chance this could lead to a society where people's genetics are designed for them to be placed in a preset destiny (like adding more subservient genes to make another person for grunt work), The fact that the engineers could make a mistake or ignore the good of a genetic makeup, the dark implications this has with old school Eugenics and seeing some groups as inferior, and the risk this could lead to a loss of genetic diversity. There are loads of ways to make the Federation fear of genetic engineering seem to have a point without bringing up the god of evolution or only the EUgencis wars.
This was the WORST episode of SNW and one of the worst episodes in ST history. This episode promotes the modern black victim mentality, white men = bad/dumb, something something slavery something something, makes Pike’s girlfriend look like an unhinged psychopath, and lastly is just a BAD COURTROOM DRAMA EPISODE.
The black lady who cites the oppression of blacks and gays in Earth's history is the hero while the Vulcan who argues "facts not feelings" is the villain. Yeah, this is just more woke BS.
Putting someone on trial for the choices others made and for the crime of being alive is itself so morally fucking disgusting that any "utopia" built upon such tenets as fundamental founding law ought to be abolished. Violently. Full stop. That said, most trials in the US do not involve the defendant being called to the stand. Without expert training, it's far too easy for a cross examination to trip up the defendant the same way the police do-to make them say something that implies or suggests guilt, even when the defendant is innocent, and especially if they are guilty of something. And the fact is, we are all guilty of something. All it takes is clever questioning to root out what that is-and it's even easier if you lie about something. Probably any lawyer, and especially a criminal lawyer will tell you the same thing: You have the right to remain silent. Exercise it. If there is something for you to say, they'll tell you what it is and when to say it. Otherwise Keep Your Damned Mouth Shut. Failing to do that just makes their job a lot harder.
I personally hate what the law has become. It stopped being a system of justice a long time ago and instead became a system of “how good is your lawyer? Because if they’re really good, you can get away with absolutely any crime”. A truly broken system.
i like SNW much more than DISCO, but whats become apparent to me, is that my ideal StarTrek crew would be all strict logic Vulcans and Robots with minimal emotions being involved in plots 🤪
I have a guess at the sedition charge. Reporting it is required by the state and her Captain didn't report it. Now, an average citizen may not have a requirement but he is a Captain in a totally-not-a-military military organization and that would be a different animal. Rather than a citizen not reporting a crime, you have a Captain defying a standing order. All because she inspired it. I am not a legal expert so I don't know that I am correct in my assessment and, even assuming I am right, I don't agree with the idea considering she never actually asked him to do so but it is all I can come up with.
Not the same. Her ancestor, Khan, was a pure augment but it is highly inferred her ancestors, post Khan were base-line human, thus I imagine most of the augment genetic enhancements were diluted in the subsequent generations.
You will learn this by watching the first season of strange new worlds, but the way they find out about her modification is because she told them herself, because she didn't want to live in hiding anymore.
We do have an example of a species getting it right. We know from Phlox in Enterprise that the Denobulans are actively using gene-engineering. "On my world, we used genetic engineering to solve all diseases, but it seems humanity was not ready for such power, but maybe one day it will be.", don't know if it is exactly what he said, would have to re-watch the episode, but that's what I found and it fits to what I remember. Anyhow, the Denobulans are also known to have used biological weapons etc. against one of their "former" enemies, though they turned to a peaceful existence during ENT. Still, we have with them proof that there is a species out there, one that also has a violent and even potentially genocidal history, which uses gene engineering without turning evil. An interesting point here is, that we don't see Denobulans later in the timeline (Yeah, ENT was filmed after most of the series that it would pre-date in the timeline, but that is beside the point for the moment). Which could mean that Denobulans may actually be exempt from Starfleet and this could actually be the reason for why they are. Ironically, they wouldn't be allowed in Starfleed medical as well, only in exchange programs. It could also mean that they didn't join the Federation, though as they have close ties with Vulcan and there's no major reason for them to not grow ties with Earth, this would be strange. They would have, in the long run, joined the Federation at some point. Or they didn't because they see the regulation Starfleet has on genetic modification as false and likely as discriminating. So, all in all, Denobulans are well known for using gene-engineering. And they at least have ties with the Federation and could be considered at least affiliated, though it is more likely that at some point they have become a member world. - The "God-appeal" Kinda funny actually, but they don't make an appeal to "God". They said "playing god", which is something inherently different. There's no specification to which god or if they refer to any specific god at all. The appeal is about the idea of using a power recklessly. "Playing god" is a phrase referring to the arbitrary use of power which should be used, if used at all, with extreme care. It is not a reference to any specific god at all. A reference to a specific god also wouldn't make sense in the context of Star Trek. But the overall reference to the reckless use of power of which the consquences cannot be predicted as "playing god" is not the admission of any gods existence. This though is an understandable confusion. Especially for our US-citizens and other citizens of countries with an extreme christian focus the idea that always this specific god is meant is normal. But this phrase is actually not specific at all. It's merely about the idea of god-like powers not being used recklessly.
One of things I just realized is the Una is SNW equivalent of Tasha Yar from Star Trek: TNG. Temperament wise they are quite similar and had traumatic experiences, though Una's was not as bad but still awful in comparison. Plus as strong, almost fanatical zeal of devotion to Federation and Starfleet.
I would not say it blew Tng or Ds9 out the water. It took elements of some of those show's best episodes and expanded them. I would agree it is a great episode and is on par with TNG and Ds9. Respect you opinion on it also. It was a great episode loved it. I would say TNG had episodes of gentic soldiers that showed other race's had some issues also. But in the Timeline u could not argue i guess. Like i said it was a great episode, but it was clunky at times. But it was strange new worlds best episode. Love the video.
No. My dude, this is no “Drumhead”. I don’t want to get too into it, but I’ll address one thing. You talk about how the character in this episode had a major impact on the lives of others, and how Simon Tarsus (not sure of the spelling of his names) did not. That’s a big part of the point of drumhead. Simon was a face in the crowd. He wasn’t even part of the main cast. He was a nobody. The point being, that rights and “guarantees” (as Picard puts it) apply to everyone. It doesn’t matter how “insignificant” they may be. He was the little guy. In both cases, it was about the characters dna, and their careers threatened because of that, and their lies. I just wanted to point that out for no particular reason. In Drumhead, I’ll point out the conflict between main characters, and it was heated. Botha sides of the argument seemed genuine and relatable. Relatable as in, you can see it in society today and in the nineties with the labeling of certain people as enemies. The same can be said about this SNW episode, but I feel like TNG simply did it better. The acting and writing was far better in drumhead. That’s not a knock on Strange New Worlds. The bar is just too high. I like SNW, and I liked this episode, but Drumhead it is not.
I would like to ask you about your beginning statement about Una being on the stand. I don't know if I agree with you since, typically, in modern-day trials, you don't call the defendant on the stand. Their too much risk of incrimination and yes, pleading the 5th, while it shouldn't can suggest a notion of guilt to the Jury. Maybe Federation trails are different but it is a common practice among the American Justice system.
I enjoy SNW, but this episode was boarder line unwatchable for me. I had to force myself to finish it. From a legal standpoint it was nonsensical as well. That said there were some pretty bad TOS, and TNG episodes too. I think this is one of the, if not the worst offerings from SNW, BUT, it was still light years better then the worst of other Trek renditions. Overall, the show has been a lot of fun to watch, just not this particular episode.
only problem is... the regulation(!) that is quoted here makes no sense in or better said, doesnt apply to, this case. Its a regulation to how to perform the duties of a captain in a certain situation. The situation is if someone asks for asylum. But you can't ask for asylum in Starfleet as SF is not a state or governemt. You also cant go to a US-Navy base, ask for asylum and the next day you are a sailor. Yes the soldier/sailors can grant you safety and passage, but asylum you have to request by the sate. And Im sure the Federation wouldn't even hesitate long and grant it... but starting a career at Starfleet is a complete different arena to play. And still there may be specific regulations that qualify or disqualify you from service. If a genetic modification, when you had no choice to make them, is one of them may be up to discussion and find out, maybe even for any individual case and maybe there are still ways left open to qualify yourself.
I don't agree with your point that there should've been a moment to frame crewman Tarses ina good light. To me, him being a relatively disposable nobody was a big part of the conciet. In fact Satie was problematic because of how easily she weaponize her quasi-celebrity status and reputation.
I believe the writers did the opening on purpose. They make it clear that there is a bad history between Una and Defense council if I recall correctly. She made it clear she was taking the case to make a broader point about Federations policy on Augmentation.
I have a questions, the Denobulans at this time are a part of the federation right? In Star Trek Enterprise Dr. Phlox says that his people have been using genetic engineering positively for centuries (i.e. before the federation was even founded). So what's going on their, did they have to give up something that was probably a major part of their culture? were they given an exception status? If they were given an exception why wouldn't other species be given exceptions as well?
They probably would have exceptions, but I think in the case with humans here they were engineering people to ridiculously augment their abilities, and they want to have it be like where they ban drugs in sports because otherwise it sets off a race to the bottom where everyone who wants to win records would have to do tons of drugs and die young.
"Although Denobulans were present for or involved with the formation of both the Coalition of Planets and its successor, the United Federation of Planets, no concrete confirmation was given as to whether the Denobulans as a whole ended up joining the Coalition or the Federation." From the Memory Alpha page on Denobulans.
While this is a good episode, albeit leaning far to hard on "Modern Day" issues, it's ultimately pointless, as we know in DS9 with Bashir, that genetic engineering is still outlawed and those that been the recipient of such are still criminalized.
Ana court house Drama relies on the problem that real legal proceedings are boring. So you have to appeal to either a jury or have a case that isnt clear cut, both arent the case here. The comparison to the drumhead case is lukewarm (i dont think the episode wouldve been better if the guy was made more "real") and the jabs at directive one vs a law is also laughable I wasnt intrigued by this vid to watch the series (i generally dont subscribe to "oh yeah its stupid but it gets better",flaws can be overlooked but i dont agree with it being just a flaw)
I cannot give a solid analysis and rating of this episode as my issues with Disco era Trek bounce around in my head too much for me to be sure I'm giving it a fair shake. But I can honestly say that AT WORST, this episode was a decent effort to try and retread The Drumhead in line with modern views. When The Drumhead was made, it was explicitly targeting people who try to find traitors in common people. This was topical at the time due to gays in the military, whom many believed were security risks(which was likely the best example of a self-fulfilling prophecy in the entire history of the USA) and therefore traitors, and a lot of persecution happened if ones was even SUSPECTED of being gay. It got to the point of being one step short of full-blown McCarthyism(which was also being targeted in The Drumhead). Nowadays the issues of persecution are less over concerns of security risks and more about basic human rights/dignity so making a new version of The Drumhead reflecting that was a smart move on the writers' part and they clearly put a lot of effort into it. Everyone's opinion on how well the results were are going to vary greatly.
One of the ways I square the circle of Disco-era is to ignore what the writers say about it being Prime-Universe. I let Discovery exist in it's own universe separate from the Prime and JJ-Verse. It means almost all of the continuity issues go away. Pacing and story issues you might have are less easy to hand-wave sadly.
@@deaks25 The problem with that notion is that despite some areas that are still... weird, they've too concretely connected DiscoTrek to the prime timeline. Most obviously removing the Spore Drive from the pre-Kirk continuity in a way that would leave Starfleet thinking it would not be worth pursuing further, but also in smaller areas like Pike getting a glimpse at his future and choosing not to take the action that will prevent. Its not just the writers say-so that it's prime timeline at this point. Personally I just take the view that there's no real clean way to do anything and just hope for the best stories overall. SNW has probably been the best new Trek in this regard, but its still got a fair few of the DiscoTrek issues.
I started to feel uncomfortable with the lawyer, but I love how they made her having her own political agenda. It gave Pike a very specific goal to remind her to be a lawyer, not a politician. Change of the law doesn't happen in the courtroom. It is why the defense lawyer's opening is so weak, because it is using notoriety to make a political point, not actually giving a defense of her client. It is unique and a very Human thing we see in people. Genius.
@@theredscourge Literally how SCOTUS operates. Citizens United, Roe v Wade, Bank of the United States v. Deveaux, Quock Walker v. Jennison... All of these basically made law.
@LoreReloaded #LoreReloaded the prosecutor’s senseless arguments make more sense when you realize that she wants to lose. She is intentionally pulling as many punches as possible and her boss eventually realizes it. He then takes over. Her reaction shows that she fears that he’ll derail her efforts. Also, the fact that she may have (in the view of the fed) persuaded people to violate a federation law by knowingly concealing her status…a law that when violated could lead to the end of the federation, makes sedition make as much sense as it usually does when a state accuses a citizen of it these days. I think that move was written to reflect that irl reality.
So, I generally agree with the analysis of the arguments and the episode overall. However, the presenter's legal analysis is lacking to the point of being dead wrong. The most glaring example is when he said that putting a defendant on the stand is one of the best ways to not get convicted. This is absolutely backward and wrong. Putting a defendant on the stand is usually a desperation move because there are no other options. This is because the prosecution will make it a point to destroy the defendant on the stand. One other thing I disagree with is the disdain for the opening arguments. Opening arguments are just that, opening salvos. Shots across the bow if you will. They don't have to be fully supported or make complete sense. In this case, I think there are two options for the defenses arguments strategically. The first is that the argument challenging the law as unjust was a red herring to get the argument on the record and distract the prosecution. It also serves the defense attorney's personal motivations, as discussed in the episode, which makes it all the more believable. However, the attorney is very smart and knows how weak this argument is. So, she has this strategy that she can only reveal once the conditions have been established. The flaw in this theory is that it presupposes the attorney has knowledge of the entire circumstances of Una's arrest. There is good evidence to the contrary in the episode. The second possibility is that, from a legal perspective, the unjust law argument was the best argument she had until putting Una on the stand. At that point, the attorney realized that Una had already met all of the conditions for asylum, and she shifted arguments. The only thing presupposed by this theory is that the attorney has a very deep and thorough knowledge of her chosen law field. There is also evidence in the episode that Una is less than forthcoming with her attorney about how she was found out.
I'm not talkin about religion here per se but it is not a genetic difference that makes you homosexual having those tendencies does not mean your predetermined to be that way being a homosexual is a choice you choose to be 1 or not to be 1 there is nothing in our DNA that predisposes someone to be or not to be homosexual this is been proven for more than 2000 years going all the way back to the first century that people have chosen to be homosexual and others have chosen not to be a homosexual they totally stopped the practice because it no longer fits who they are
The law is stupide ! How the produse of genetic modified scientifique expérience have to be traid in justice and not juste the scientifique in question is juste not meck sanse !
Loved this season the way between the lowerdecks crossover and the musical there is the best war episode of treck I have ever seen with the dark side shown so clearly "incoming transport" now sends shivers down my spine yet the next episode made my laugh and spirt my drink all over me when the klingon Kpop came on I thought I would be safe to drink I was so wrong 😂 please can we have 7+ seasons of this
@@davidlaurahay no it's real, I thought it was a meme too. CBS Paramount, or more accurately the learning disabled adults that are generously called "writers" in Hollywood anymore really do despise classic IP that much. Part of me thinks it has to be hatred for the reality that they will never be Roddenberry's equal, as I refuse to believe any "grown adult" of averaging intelligence can mistake the difference between Worf singing classic Klingon opera, the crew of a ship singing a battle song as they set out (like the norse Klingons are partially based on) and the sheer death cringe that is "boy band" musical dance routines complete with weapons as props. I should laugh, but after watching nerd culture desecrated time and again by these hacks finger painting with their own feces it makes me want to publicly tar and feather someone. I was waiting for the part where they were drugged, space gassed, or where Rick Sanchez popped out of a portal looking for some radiological isotope. IT NEVER HAPPENED!
Gave me a lot to think about and give that job to the truly deep divers of trek like your self but as a fan of court room dramas this episode,DS9 rules of engagement and the menagerie is where treks shows the promise of the Federation
I wouldn't say that the law regarding asylum of persecuted peoples is entirely made up for this episode. We see multiple times where Starfleet captains have granted asylum to individuals, or at least attempted to do so, even if it would place their ship in peril. Heck, Janeway went so far as to grant Quinn asylum from the Q Continuum, even when the point of contention with the Q Continuum was his expressed desire to make the choice to end himself. We might not have had the text of the law yet, but it was a well-established hill that Starfleet captains were willing to stand and die upon.
One captain that repeatedly fucked her crew like she paid for it made that stand on a hill to die on. That's not Starfleet, that's an extremely shitty Captain that has no business in the chair.
Did you watch the same episode as me all those questions at the beginning that you thought was stupid came into play in the last part this was a master chess game i beg you watch it again everything clicks into place in the end I thought that was whole point of this episode as in all ST incarnations they have mentioned the genetics way and that genetically modified species were treated as vermin I had always wondered how is it that the federation can put this infringement in place and not learn from earths own mistakes to me this showed that the federation has flaws too and Gene Roddenberry would have never signed off on this episode i thought this was superbly written every dought i had before this episode about the federations flaws and stubbornness to even listen and the twist at the end bravo
Didnt enterprise state denobulans perfected genetic alterations and it was standard for them. If true phlox was altered and in starfleet no issue. It also stated it was for earth humans only. So how is this whole trial possible?
I think throughout the show history, almost everything has been done at one point, to do anything new without alienating or angering the fans would be impossible. Look at the musical, it is the only musical(to my knowledge) in 56 plus years and some people were absolutely furious. The only things the writers could have their shit approved would be trying desperately to promote recent trends and appease all of the sexual minorities. Regarding SNW, at least they're making each episode interesting unlike Discovery.
It is a Courts Martial, if the Starfleet JAG is anything like modern day's courts martial they are not law professionals, just career-climber officers with (sometimes) a law degree and self serving motivations. The defendant had to hire her own lawyer, because she was offered an useless subordinate officer, that answered to the accusation...
I totally agree that this court scene is amazing I think the emotional impact is what makes it better than a measure of a man, and is way better than drum head
The Federation, through being largely an Earth-centric organization, is traumatized by the horrors of the Eugenics wars, and this damage colors every interaction Starfleet has for centuries to come.
This is internally pretty consistent so far as I figure.
Their argument against genetic modification isn't rational, and it's never framed as such.
What it bothers me is that none of other federation members object this stupid law.
@@sanhcman666 I could imagine that some of them silently agree, enough that it really doesn't receive substantial challenge. Trek lore only shows a few examples of successful genetic modification on scale, and most of those are adversary regimes. (Dominion, Gorn, Kzinti/Ferasan) and wildly dangerous and unsuccessful much of the time (Klingon) Many minor races likely accept this fact as simply a minor price of Federation membership and don't really seriously question it, even if they disagree.
It might not be actively framed as such, but there’s certainly a rational argument to be made against genetic modification. It’s the same as performance enhancing drugs in sports. It triggers a rat race which quickly devolves into ever more modifications while at the same time taking away what it means to be human, or Vulcan, or any other sentient for that matter. And it’s fiendishly difficult to prevent some elite (in practice Starfleet officers) from getting preferential treatment in this regard. Since genetic modification is usually inheritable you almost immediately create a ruling caste while the rabble is unaltered. Federation ideals are all about the betterment of one’s self, but with the guarantee that everyone has equal opportunity purely based on innate talent. Genetic modification cheats this system and does not create a better world. And let’s not forget there’s no complete ban on genetic modification. It’s fairly commonly used for treatment of diseases and malformations. I remember that Miral Torres was treated for a malformed spine this way. Anyway, if you want to read more on the subject I can highly recommend Trekonomics from Manu Saadia. It’s mainly about economics of Star Trek, but it also touches on the subject of genetic modification and the Federation’s ban on it.
Honestly, it always came off as the people doing the modification being idiots. Like they screwed up horribly with making overly-aggressive, strong, and ambitious geniuses, but instead of fixing the flaw they said "This is fine." then let everyone suffer the consequences again and again.
Excellent Point.
Overall I loved watching this series, brings a vibe of "true star trek" as Roddenberry thought it up, but with a modern twist. Only the episode with the singing (space rhapsody?) wasn't for me, although I could appreciate it... Great Video, would love some more thoughts on SNW.
I can see where you are coming from, but I thought the episode order for 7-8-9 was so well done with incoming transport been in my nightmares now but surrounded by fun + the episode new is was stupid and went with it without the oh it's a dream or not real stuff other shows do, Deff Buffy vibes so maybe the nostalgia made me love it, or the Kpop klingons 😂😂😂
This episode also has a really great coda in the Lower Decks crossover episode. No spoilers, but it's mentioned by Boimler and Mariner that, in their time, Una is literally the face of Starfleet, the person on recruitment posters. Her entire career, she was scared she didn't deserve to be in Starfleet, but the verdict of the future is that she's one of the all-time best that ever was. Her reaction to finding that out is subtle (if you haven't been following her arc you might miss it) but extremely powerful.
Spock is genetically engineered, all mixed species characters are genetically engineered. It's in canon.
I think they draw the line at genetically engineered for the specific purpose of superhuman enhancement though.
but Number One is terran she is Illiyran and that's kind of the problem I have with this concept as a whole. While a good court room drama is goes more with the DS9 episode based off if Bashir when tjat suddenly became a problem.
More reflection on Strange New Worlds please! This is my favorite New Trek series by far!
13:16 Not a lawyer myself, but generally from what I have heard from my lawyer friends you don't want to put the defendant on the stand, almost always. There are just too many things you can say or do wrong, and for this case be as open and shut as it is. You could easily compound the offense or implicate others in what happened.
Caveat: you don't put them on the stand *if they're guilty and you're arguing an affirmative defense/justification strategy... if they're innocent you almost always want to put them on the stand
@@genlando327plays2 In this case Una is guilty, at least in a technical sense. I don't really get how they missed this when making the video - it's literally in the episode that someone suggests Una take the stand to better appeal to be the panel and Una's lawyer demonstrates how in just a few questions she could be forced to implicate herself and others for additional charges.
That was my issue with it too Humans couldn't handle it so there is no chance anyone else could
It is a shame that Star Trek doesn't show up on TV. There is something lost when it is a subscriber service.
Good news for you then It will be aired on CBS because the strike is still ongoing
TV? Is that some streaming service? Traditional broadcast has its advantages that could had served new Trek well, such as making sure it targeted a general audience, less serialized (Discovery and Picard) to allow viewers who had missed an episode to pick up. And more episodes (with perhaps less quality) per season. However the streaming design I think is still trying to be perfected, finding the right balance for that medium. In TOS a lot of the Shatnering wasn't because they were bad actors, but we're use to Theater acting, for an audience in a large room, with questionable accustics. So... The long speech with... A pause. Was necessary, while TV was a new acting dynamic. Streaming over broadcast also creates new and different dynamics. Which I felt they didn't quite get with Discovery and Picard, where they basically made a 5 hour movie a season. While SNW is getting the balance between individual plots per episode and giving an arch for the season. DS9 was actually ahead of its time, as it is wonderfully streamable.
@@toddfraser3353 Well, it restricts its audience -- I do believe there are a lot more people who would be interested in new trek than are willing to subscribe to paramount+. There are so many streaming services these days each of which tends to have 1 or 2 things I would be interested in. I'd rather have one place with 10.
There's a sci-fi channel in certain countries on satellite TV that have the rights to broadcast this show I think
Strange New Worlds is coming to CBS fairly soon.
Nice to see that the old adage about blind squirrels still holds up.
Una DID live under rough conditions.
If you'd watched SNW from the beginning (even without the ties to Discovery) more of the episode would have made more sense - so I hope at some point you do go back and watch. As for the validity or sensibility of the arguments - the prosecution was attempting to destroy the defense's case by opening with a witness (Admiral April) who made his decisions with regards to Una solely based on the law. The defense forced April's hand by showing the hypocrisy of April's decision making and Starfleet's on inconsistent application of its highest laws. The tribunal had to throw it out. First round to the defense.
I’m going to watch the whole series and have more videos
@@LoreReloadedI am not a fan of Disco (too many lore/canon issues for me), nor the first two seasons of Picard. However, I really like SNW. Sure, there are some episodes that are lacking, but that is to be expected, and I didn't find any to be terrible. There may or may not (I'll let you decide) be an homage to WH40K in one episode. Overall, I am quite pleased with this series and I am looking forward to your takes on it.
SNW and Lower Decks really make me believe trek is on the mend. Heck, even discovery season 4 finally felt like a trek story. A very poorly told one but it was certainly trying. With Disco and Picard wrapping up, I think if SNW and LD are allowed to be examples of what works, Trek is heading back into a good age.
The power of this episode tends to be......amplified with the context of the previous episodes. And I agree with how well DSC era writers write Vulcans
Honestly after watching all the new trek I love it all . Even if there are inconsistencies between the series. Enterprise brings up DNA modification in a few episodes. Other species have done it right
Descendant of Kahn, not ancestor
Not sure why people mix them up, you don't go around saying that you're the parent of your dad, or the aunt of his sister. The only family designation that's not binomial is cousin.
Ep was a good reminder why it's easy to hate Vulcans. Great when on your side. Screwed it not
The Vulcan lawyer (I can't remember his name) was just as insufferable, maybe even more so, as Sisko's Vulcan nemisis from his academy days (Take Me Out to the Holosuite). I couldn't stand his smugness. I was quite delighted when he got outsmarted by Una's lawyer.
I still have no idea what Batel was doing on JAG duty (other than as a plot device), but whatever.
Doesn't Phlox have something to say about how other races (including other eventual Federation members) handle genetic modifications and are 'mature enough to use them responsibility' during the Augments-arc in Enterprise?
He mentions that several races he knows of (including his own) use "minor modifications" for medical purposes. It seems (I'm just trying to hash this together so it's not sacred by any means) at the time of Enterprise Humanity had banned genetic modification entirely. By the time of TNG there are confirmed cases of genetic modification in utero to correct health issues with the foetus. So, presumably, some time between Flox mentioning it and TNG (possibly with the formation of the Federation) "Genetic modification" took on a more specific meaning with regards to prejudice and it is only enhancements/deviation from the baseline, not medical corrections, that are frowned upon.
Which does make sense on several fronts. Firstly, the Eugenics Wars weren't caused by Doctors using GM to correct things like a malformed spine. They were caused by people being enhanced, so it makes sense that any caution/fear/prejudice would remain far longer regarding enhancements.
Secondly, this is the natural evolution of something becoming acceptable in a society after being considered unacceptable - it becomes accepted in stages, one small step at a time. Kind of like how many societies have, over the last century or so, gone from hunting down and castrating/executing gay men to "don't ask, don't tell", then "We won't ask but I guess you don't have to hide it any more either", to "Okay, I suppose you can have legal partner rights but Marriage? That's a straight people thing. No." and, most recently, "I must introduce my gay friends so they can get married and I can go to a gay wedding!"
I'd also like to think there were elements of Measure of a Man sprinkled throughout the episode
The appeal to the sense of law and rules is certainly more Measure of a Man than Drumhead, but the case as a whole lines up a lot more with The Drumhead.
@@FormulaFox especially with that Vulcan Admiral threatening to go after Pike
....When you're working the loading dock, out in the field building...You're getting YOUR hands dirty, you're sweating from the labor and dealing with things the CEO has no idea of what You really do.
"We build houses for customers" says the CEO and board. People who probably have never done the kind of work you and your crew have been doing for years.
They see papers that the people in accounting or some other very white collar level of the corporation. Some bureaucrat writes up employee rules and safety manuals that have No Idea of Real Life.
They see that YOU were late with this or that..and 'By God, they want to know why you can't do a simple job..and No Excuses!"
Employees don't leave companies, they leave bad management...the Marquis left the corporation and 'For Some Reason'...they don't know Why.
The federation was trying to 'Keep the Peace' with the Cardassians..by they didn't care for or want any other colony in the area but Theirs. The Federation refused to see the conflict from the Marquis' POV.
Its easy to be content and pissed off at others who aren't on the Upper levels of Paradise and as Eddington was saying 'Who leaves paradise?"
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NGL, finding out she reported herself was a perfect gut punch.
This is something I do have to admit I hate in regards to Trek because in books which are beta cannon but where written by people with alpha cannon knowledge namely the book Vulcan's Glory by D.C. Fontana Number One's origins were always that she came from a race that genetically modified its people in fact her being called Number One wasn't a term of endearment like we see Captain Picard calling Commander Rider his number one. Una was called Number One because she was the very best of her line if you will someone's idea of a peefect being. The reason this is a problem is because D.C. Fontana was apart of Trek creation from the beginning and while Eugenics Wars are talked about in TOS it's not brought up as a problem in Star Fleet until DS9 decades after the fact. And the big problem is Strange New Worlds is set before The Original Series so why it is it a problem in DS9 and bigger question why is it a problem in SNW when in TOS is wasn't a problem. For me this is why later Trek and New Trek I have problems with from a continuity stand point, it isn't perfect but it does show the writers at times might read up on Trek but they don't quite understand certain parts.
The problem with legalizing genetic modification is that it creates a class system: homo superior with their greater strength and intelligence and whatever, and homo sapiens with whatever nature provided. It's a pretty inevitable outcome, one that most species that can make genetic modifications probably went through at some point. So, most species probably wete willing enough to agree to ban the practice, as long as exceptions were made for correcting genetic defects (as was done with Miral Torres).
Bruh... Geneticist here.
No, that isn't exactly how this all works. The entire genome is super complex and there almost always unforeseen complications to anything that you modify.
To TL/DR
*Most* of what we can do could be done in nature given a long enough time frame with selective breeding. The world has been around for billions of years.
The most profound changes you can do usually are super detrimental. That is why those mutations are not common currently in our population today.
For example: In making the person the strongest they can their connective tissue gives out at the age 25. Now they are in a wheel chair at best. Or you make them super smart but (which is problematic to begin with because what do we mean when we say smart? More neurons? More dendrites? all of these kinds of modifications could easily lead to fatal neurological problems... or a weak immune system. or their liver fails before puberty.)
As for genetic modification always being bad and make super advanced super humans....
What one could do, if a couple, or so people wanted to have a kid together, and wanted to edit the genome. Get 16 eggs and 16 sperm, look at the genomes of all of them. Edit all 32 into the "best" possible combinations and come out with 8 individual zygotes to implant.
If both parents had brown eyes none of the fetuses would have blue eyes for instance.
However, every combination you make *could* have naturally arisen. But statically you are getting each kid would be a one in a several hundred billion.
As for *genetic defects*... um what you have outlined what do you consider a genetic defect? I understand where one side is with Miral Torres.
How do you feel about Julian Bashir?
Worf's argument in a nutshell.
Now consider this. Andorians handle cold better than humans. Vulcans are stronger and smarter than humans, as well as superior hearing. Why are there genes allowed into Starfleet if someone with gene modification bringing them on par with these beings cannot?
How can inter-species breeding be permitted when it will result in something superior than a base line human?
And they do gene tweaking to remove defects before birth. Is that not a permanent genetic alteration? My family is very prone to heart disease. Before I am born I got treated for that. Now I am an augment according to Federation law. (No I was not treated it is on my mind due to the defibrillator vest I am wearing.)
@@Giganfan2k1 Bruh - you're not a geneticist. Don't pretend otherwise. You spouted basic high school level gene theory that is largely correct, but not accurate. An actual geneticist would know the difference.
@@willdavis3802 What is a codon?
Central dogma?
3 prime to 4 prime?
What the structure in the mitochondria that doubles the amount of ATP produced by the Krebs cycle?
@@Giganfan2k1 An amino acid sequence set, DNA->RNA->Protein, chemical orientation for nucleic acid strings, and at least in part, the cytosyl in most organisms.
They dont understand Sedition.
Sedition is any Act causing government, law, constitution, sovereign to be held in hatred and contempt. That means every act including government, law, constitution, sovereign requires consensus or government, law, constitution, sovereign be held in hatred and contempt.
Nailed it in one. :) Well said, and please... watch more SNW. It's SOOOOOO GOOOOOOD.
As someone who didn't like Discovery and didn't like Picard Season 1 or 2, the fact that Strange New Worlds was created by the same people as those other two is shocking. It's such a great series. I never watch OG trek, it's just kinda hokey to me.
The federation has always sucked in understanding the individual and how there's no one shoe size fits all solutions in this case is genetic engineering and the terrans fear of it and the same goes for capitalism or free market enterprise which the Terrans and the Federation abandoned but the Ferengi embraced and perfected to the point that they didn't suffer devastating world wars.
I think one thing you don’t take into account regarding Una being gene modded is that her parents themselves were gene modded as well which means whatever gene mods they had she inherited those gene mods so she was screwed before birth in that alone. So it really is just her being Illyrian that’s the issue essentially
What's the background music?
The defense committed a procedural infraction when she continued questioning after an objection had been registered.
I feel a better issue to bring up with Genetic Engineering would be the fallibility of the one doing it. Banning it or regulating it extremely due to the risks of creating a class system of engineered and un engineered people, the chance this could lead to a society where people's genetics are designed for them to be placed in a preset destiny (like adding more subservient genes to make another person for grunt work), The fact that the engineers could make a mistake or ignore the good of a genetic makeup, the dark implications this has with old school Eugenics and seeing some groups as inferior, and the risk this could lead to a loss of genetic diversity.
There are loads of ways to make the Federation fear of genetic engineering seem to have a point without bringing up the god of evolution or only the EUgencis wars.
Watch the musical episode next.
Not bad, the whole season was great. Can’t wait for season 3
we need more k-pop klingons
So much cringe
@@jameslauder3984thats the fun
Those TOS style ribbons/medals on the old bald alien are fantastic.
Ad astra per aspera.
To the stars through adversity.
This was the WORST episode of SNW and one of the worst episodes in ST history. This episode promotes the modern black victim mentality, white men = bad/dumb, something something slavery something something, makes Pike’s girlfriend look like an unhinged psychopath, and lastly is just a BAD COURTROOM DRAMA EPISODE.
The black lady who cites the oppression of blacks and gays in Earth's history is the hero while the Vulcan who argues "facts not feelings" is the villain. Yeah, this is just more woke BS.
@@williamsonknox6318 seriously the worst episode of Star Trek I’ve ever seen
Putting someone on trial for the choices others made and for the crime of being alive is itself so morally fucking disgusting that any "utopia" built upon such tenets as fundamental founding law ought to be abolished. Violently. Full stop.
That said, most trials in the US do not involve the defendant being called to the stand. Without expert training, it's far too easy for a cross examination to trip up the defendant the same way the police do-to make them say something that implies or suggests guilt, even when the defendant is innocent, and especially if they are guilty of something. And the fact is, we are all guilty of something. All it takes is clever questioning to root out what that is-and it's even easier if you lie about something.
Probably any lawyer, and especially a criminal lawyer will tell you the same thing: You have the right to remain silent. Exercise it. If there is something for you to say, they'll tell you what it is and when to say it. Otherwise Keep Your Damned Mouth Shut. Failing to do that just makes their job a lot harder.
It’s a glaring hypocrisy for sure
I personally hate what the law has become. It stopped being a system of justice a long time ago and instead became a system of “how good is your lawyer? Because if they’re really good, you can get away with absolutely any crime”.
A truly broken system.
KURTZMAN DREK ISN'T CANON
i like SNW much more than DISCO, but whats become apparent to me, is that my ideal StarTrek crew would be all strict logic Vulcans and Robots with minimal emotions being involved in plots 🤪
We need a nearly all Vulcan crew on one star ship that would be hilarious.
PS the lower decks episode where you get to see the Vulcan Crew... Chiefs kiss. 7 seasons please.
I have a guess at the sedition charge. Reporting it is required by the state and her Captain didn't report it. Now, an average citizen may not have a requirement but he is a Captain in a totally-not-a-military military organization and that would be a different animal. Rather than a citizen not reporting a crime, you have a Captain defying a standing order. All because she inspired it. I am not a legal expert so I don't know that I am correct in my assessment and, even assuming I am right, I don't agree with the idea considering she never actually asked him to do so but it is all I can come up with.
Wouldn't La'an also be an augment, since her progenitors had genetically modified genes?
Not the same. Her ancestor, Khan, was a pure augment but it is highly inferred her ancestors, post Khan were base-line human, thus I imagine most of the augment genetic enhancements were diluted in the subsequent generations.
@@baltham0 I suppose you're right. La'an could have sprung from Khan's un-augmented sister or brother for all we know.
SNW is easily one of the better StarTreks in a long time.
That's why it is losing money. Good job!
@@davidlaurahayit's losing money because Paramount+ has no noteworthy exclusives besides Star Trek and Yellowstone
The defence say would you be alive is a bad take ..... If she wasn't there someone else would of saved them
You will learn this by watching the first season of strange new worlds, but the way they find out about her modification is because she told them herself, because she didn't want to live in hiding anymore.
We do have an example of a species getting it right. We know from Phlox in Enterprise that the Denobulans are actively using gene-engineering. "On my world, we used genetic engineering to solve all diseases, but it seems humanity was not ready for such power, but maybe one day it will be.", don't know if it is exactly what he said, would have to re-watch the episode, but that's what I found and it fits to what I remember.
Anyhow, the Denobulans are also known to have used biological weapons etc. against one of their "former" enemies, though they turned to a peaceful existence during ENT. Still, we have with them proof that there is a species out there, one that also has a violent and even potentially genocidal history, which uses gene engineering without turning evil.
An interesting point here is, that we don't see Denobulans later in the timeline (Yeah, ENT was filmed after most of the series that it would pre-date in the timeline, but that is beside the point for the moment). Which could mean that Denobulans may actually be exempt from Starfleet and this could actually be the reason for why they are.
Ironically, they wouldn't be allowed in Starfleed medical as well, only in exchange programs. It could also mean that they didn't join the Federation, though as they have close ties with Vulcan and there's no major reason for them to not grow ties with Earth, this would be strange. They would have, in the long run, joined the Federation at some point. Or they didn't because they see the regulation Starfleet has on genetic modification as false and likely as discriminating.
So, all in all, Denobulans are well known for using gene-engineering. And they at least have ties with the Federation and could be considered at least affiliated, though it is more likely that at some point they have become a member world.
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The "God-appeal"
Kinda funny actually, but they don't make an appeal to "God". They said "playing god", which is something inherently different. There's no specification to which god or if they refer to any specific god at all.
The appeal is about the idea of using a power recklessly. "Playing god" is a phrase referring to the arbitrary use of power which should be used, if used at all, with extreme care. It is not a reference to any specific god at all. A reference to a specific god also wouldn't make sense in the context of Star Trek. But the overall reference to the reckless use of power of which the consquences cannot be predicted as "playing god" is not the admission of any gods existence.
This though is an understandable confusion. Especially for our US-citizens and other citizens of countries with an extreme christian focus the idea that always this specific god is meant is normal. But this phrase is actually not specific at all. It's merely about the idea of god-like powers not being used recklessly.
One of things I just realized is the Una is SNW equivalent of Tasha Yar from Star Trek: TNG. Temperament wise they are quite similar and had traumatic experiences, though Una's was not as bad but still awful in comparison. Plus as strong, almost fanatical zeal of devotion to Federation and Starfleet.
And then you have Bashir, who clearly didn't get the message that eas resolved a century before his birth and modification.
"What would God need with a starship?" - I see what you did there.
I would not say it blew Tng or Ds9 out the water. It took elements of some of those show's best episodes and expanded them. I would agree it is a great episode and is on par with TNG and Ds9. Respect you opinion on it also. It was a great episode loved it. I would say TNG had episodes of gentic soldiers that showed other race's had some issues also. But in the Timeline u could not argue i guess. Like i said it was a great episode, but it was clunky at times. But it was strange new worlds best episode. Love the video.
seeing your title and knowing you, this is likely parody. Plz don't. Find another outlet.
No. My dude, this is no “Drumhead”.
I don’t want to get too into it, but I’ll address one thing.
You talk about how the character in this episode had a major impact on the lives of others, and how Simon Tarsus (not sure of the spelling of his names) did not.
That’s a big part of the point of drumhead. Simon was a face in the crowd. He wasn’t even part of the main cast. He was a nobody.
The point being, that rights and “guarantees” (as Picard puts it) apply to everyone. It doesn’t matter how “insignificant” they may be. He was the little guy.
In both cases, it was about the characters dna, and their careers threatened because of that, and their lies. I just wanted to point that out for no particular reason.
In Drumhead, I’ll point out the conflict between main characters, and it was heated. Botha sides of the argument seemed genuine and relatable.
Relatable as in, you can see it in society today and in the nineties with the labeling of certain people as enemies.
The same can be said about this SNW episode, but I feel like TNG simply did it better.
The acting and writing was far better in drumhead. That’s not a knock on Strange New Worlds. The bar is just too high.
I like SNW, and I liked this episode, but Drumhead it is not.
I would like to ask you about your beginning statement about Una being on the stand. I don't know if I agree with you since, typically, in modern-day trials, you don't call the defendant on the stand. Their too much risk of incrimination and yes, pleading the 5th, while it shouldn't can suggest a notion of guilt to the Jury. Maybe Federation trails are different but it is a common practice among the American Justice system.
I enjoy SNW, but this episode was boarder line unwatchable for me. I had to force myself to finish it. From a legal standpoint it was nonsensical as well. That said there were some pretty bad TOS, and TNG episodes too. I think this is one of the, if not the worst offerings from SNW, BUT, it was still light years better then the worst of other Trek renditions. Overall, the show has been a lot of fun to watch, just not this particular episode.
only problem is... the regulation(!) that is quoted here makes no sense in or better said, doesnt apply to, this case. Its a regulation to how to perform the duties of a captain in a certain situation. The situation is if someone asks for asylum. But you can't ask for asylum in Starfleet as SF is not a state or governemt. You also cant go to a US-Navy base, ask for asylum and the next day you are a sailor. Yes the soldier/sailors can grant you safety and passage, but asylum you have to request by the sate. And Im sure the Federation wouldn't even hesitate long and grant it... but starting a career at Starfleet is a complete different arena to play.
And still there may be specific regulations that qualify or disqualify you from service. If a genetic modification, when you had no choice to make them, is one of them may be up to discussion and find out, maybe even for any individual case and maybe there are still ways left open to qualify yourself.
I don't agree with your point that there should've been a moment to frame crewman Tarses ina good light.
To me, him being a relatively disposable nobody was a big part of the conciet.
In fact Satie was problematic because of how easily she weaponize her quasi-celebrity status and reputation.
I believe the writers did the opening on purpose. They make it clear that there is a bad history between Una and Defense council if I recall correctly. She made it clear she was taking the case to make a broader point about Federations policy on Augmentation.
I have a questions, the Denobulans at this time are a part of the federation right? In Star Trek Enterprise Dr. Phlox says that his people have been using genetic engineering positively for centuries (i.e. before the federation was even founded). So what's going on their, did they have to give up something that was probably a major part of their culture? were they given an exception status? If they were given an exception why wouldn't other species be given exceptions as well?
They probably would have exceptions, but I think in the case with humans here they were engineering people to ridiculously augment their abilities, and they want to have it be like where they ban drugs in sports because otherwise it sets off a race to the bottom where everyone who wants to win records would have to do tons of drugs and die young.
"Although Denobulans were present for or involved with the formation of both the Coalition of Planets and its successor, the United Federation of Planets, no concrete confirmation was given as to whether the Denobulans as a whole ended up joining the Coalition or the Federation."
From the Memory Alpha page on Denobulans.
While this is a good episode, albeit leaning far to hard on "Modern Day" issues, it's ultimately pointless, as we know in DS9 with Bashir, that genetic engineering is still outlawed and those that been the recipient of such are still criminalized.
Ana court house Drama relies on the problem that real legal proceedings are boring.
So you have to appeal to either a jury or have a case that isnt clear cut, both arent the case here.
The comparison to the drumhead case is lukewarm (i dont think the episode wouldve been better if the guy was made more "real") and the jabs at directive one vs a law is also laughable
I wasnt intrigued by this vid to watch the series (i generally dont subscribe to "oh yeah its stupid but it gets better",flaws can be overlooked but i dont agree with it being just a flaw)
I cannot give a solid analysis and rating of this episode as my issues with Disco era Trek bounce around in my head too much for me to be sure I'm giving it a fair shake. But I can honestly say that AT WORST, this episode was a decent effort to try and retread The Drumhead in line with modern views.
When The Drumhead was made, it was explicitly targeting people who try to find traitors in common people. This was topical at the time due to gays in the military, whom many believed were security risks(which was likely the best example of a self-fulfilling prophecy in the entire history of the USA) and therefore traitors, and a lot of persecution happened if ones was even SUSPECTED of being gay. It got to the point of being one step short of full-blown McCarthyism(which was also being targeted in The Drumhead). Nowadays the issues of persecution are less over concerns of security risks and more about basic human rights/dignity so making a new version of The Drumhead reflecting that was a smart move on the writers' part and they clearly put a lot of effort into it.
Everyone's opinion on how well the results were are going to vary greatly.
One of the ways I square the circle of Disco-era is to ignore what the writers say about it being Prime-Universe. I let Discovery exist in it's own universe separate from the Prime and JJ-Verse. It means almost all of the continuity issues go away. Pacing and story issues you might have are less easy to hand-wave sadly.
@@deaks25 The problem with that notion is that despite some areas that are still... weird, they've too concretely connected DiscoTrek to the prime timeline. Most obviously removing the Spore Drive from the pre-Kirk continuity in a way that would leave Starfleet thinking it would not be worth pursuing further, but also in smaller areas like Pike getting a glimpse at his future and choosing not to take the action that will prevent. Its not just the writers say-so that it's prime timeline at this point.
Personally I just take the view that there's no real clean way to do anything and just hope for the best stories overall. SNW has probably been the best new Trek in this regard, but its still got a fair few of the DiscoTrek issues.
I started to feel uncomfortable with the lawyer, but I love how they made her having her own political agenda. It gave Pike a very specific goal to remind her to be a lawyer, not a politician. Change of the law doesn't happen in the courtroom. It is why the defense lawyer's opening is so weak, because it is using notoriety to make a political point, not actually giving a defense of her client. It is unique and a very Human thing we see in people. Genius.
Change of the law can happen sometimes in court via legal precedent, but that aside, excellent points.
@@theredscourge Literally how SCOTUS operates. Citizens United, Roe v Wade, Bank of the United States v. Deveaux, Quock Walker v. Jennison... All of these basically made law.
@LoreReloaded #LoreReloaded the prosecutor’s senseless arguments make more sense when you realize that she wants to lose. She is intentionally pulling as many punches as possible and her boss eventually realizes it. He then takes over. Her reaction shows that she fears that he’ll derail her efforts.
Also, the fact that she may have (in the view of the fed) persuaded people to violate a federation law by knowingly concealing her status…a law that when violated could lead to the end of the federation, makes sedition make as much sense as it usually does when a state accuses a citizen of it these days. I think that move was written to reflect that irl reality.
So, I generally agree with the analysis of the arguments and the episode overall. However, the presenter's legal analysis is lacking to the point of being dead wrong. The most glaring example is when he said that putting a defendant on the stand is one of the best ways to not get convicted. This is absolutely backward and wrong. Putting a defendant on the stand is usually a desperation move because there are no other options. This is because the prosecution will make it a point to destroy the defendant on the stand.
One other thing I disagree with is the disdain for the opening arguments. Opening arguments are just that, opening salvos. Shots across the bow if you will. They don't have to be fully supported or make complete sense.
In this case, I think there are two options for the defenses arguments strategically. The first is that the argument challenging the law as unjust was a red herring to get the argument on the record and distract the prosecution. It also serves the defense attorney's personal motivations, as discussed in the episode, which makes it all the more believable. However, the attorney is very smart and knows how weak this argument is. So, she has this strategy that she can only reveal once the conditions have been established. The flaw in this theory is that it presupposes the attorney has knowledge of the entire circumstances of Una's arrest. There is good evidence to the contrary in the episode.
The second possibility is that, from a legal perspective, the unjust law argument was the best argument she had until putting Una on the stand. At that point, the attorney realized that Una had already met all of the conditions for asylum, and she shifted arguments. The only thing presupposed by this theory is that the attorney has a very deep and thorough knowledge of her chosen law field. There is also evidence in the episode that Una is less than forthcoming with her attorney about how she was found out.
I couldn't be bothered to watch SNW. Here is what I think about it.
SMFH
Man, that cartoon was the best of Trek. Giant Spock would tread on this court. Literally step on it, look at his giant space boot, uh oh.
I'm not talkin about religion here per se but it is not a genetic difference that makes you homosexual having those tendencies does not mean your predetermined to be that way being a homosexual is a choice you choose to be 1 or not to be 1 there is nothing in our DNA that predisposes someone to be or not to be homosexual this is been proven for more than 2000 years going all the way back to the first century that people have chosen to be homosexual and others have chosen not to be a homosexual they totally stopped the practice because it no longer fits who they are
Yeah, when she said god I was like which one(s)? That alone really made me have to turn on my SOB.
The sedition charges were unwarranted.
The law is stupide ! How the produse of genetic modified scientifique expérience have to be traid in justice and not juste the scientifique in question is juste not meck sanse !
I always wondered why When Pike got promoted out of the captain's seat of the enterprise, why he tossed the keys to Kirk not Una
The Sedition charges are probably for having the crew and captain lie to cover for her. She is inciting a breakdown.
I just wish they would have kept Aprels queens British accent
wait till you see the k-pop klingons, for god sake we need more k-pop klingons
You have got to be KIDDING!!
nope i am NOT!!!
@@davidlaurahay I knew it was a musical ep before watching... didnt know if I would like it... THEN k-pop klingons... now I want more
Loved this season the way between the lowerdecks crossover and the musical there is the best war episode of treck I have ever seen with the dark side shown so clearly "incoming transport" now sends shivers down my spine yet the next episode made my laugh and spirt my drink all over me when the klingon Kpop came on I thought I would be safe to drink I was so wrong 😂 please can we have 7+ seasons of this
@@davidlaurahay no it's real, I thought it was a meme too. CBS Paramount, or more accurately the learning disabled adults that are generously called "writers" in Hollywood anymore really do despise classic IP that much. Part of me thinks it has to be hatred for the reality that they will never be Roddenberry's equal, as I refuse to believe any "grown adult" of averaging intelligence can mistake the difference between Worf singing classic Klingon opera, the crew of a ship singing a battle song as they set out (like the norse Klingons are partially based on) and the sheer death cringe that is "boy band" musical dance routines complete with weapons as props. I should laugh, but after watching nerd culture desecrated time and again by these hacks finger painting with their own feces it makes me want to publicly tar and feather someone. I was waiting for the part where they were drugged, space gassed, or where Rick Sanchez popped out of a portal looking for some radiological isotope. IT NEVER HAPPENED!
They rip-off Gundam: Unicorn and thought no one would notice.
its cultural and a survival thing. their culture is to adapt themselves to life on other planets and not to terraform and adapt the planets.
La'an is a descendant of Khan, not an ancestor. Her time travel did not create a grandfather paradox.
This series out of all new Trek is the only good series, I would go so far as to say season for season it is better than TNG.
Then Strange New Worlds went on and did a episode with Klingon boy band.
Yep, the whole Federation's law on genetics is BS.
Gave me a lot to think about and give that job to the truly deep divers of trek like your self but as a fan of court room dramas this episode,DS9 rules of engagement and the menagerie is where treks shows the promise of the Federation
Denobulans were ok with genetic manipulation
Really Lore.....you haven't watched? Welcome back
Lore's never watched any episode of Star Trek ever, Lore just read's the synopsis and 2 or 3 clips from each episode.
It might be better then Drumhead, but it's not better than Measure of a Man.
shocked there are any good new trek. This is very first season tng
the federations ban on augments is borne from human fear and nothing else
I wouldn't say that the law regarding asylum of persecuted peoples is entirely made up for this episode. We see multiple times where Starfleet captains have granted asylum to individuals, or at least attempted to do so, even if it would place their ship in peril. Heck, Janeway went so far as to grant Quinn asylum from the Q Continuum, even when the point of contention with the Q Continuum was his expressed desire to make the choice to end himself. We might not have had the text of the law yet, but it was a well-established hill that Starfleet captains were willing to stand and die upon.
One captain that repeatedly fucked her crew like she paid for it made that stand on a hill to die on. That's not Starfleet, that's an extremely shitty Captain that has no business in the chair.
Does this imply that free speech is not a thing in the federation?
hot damn, ya it dose combine everything.
Did you watch the same episode as me all those questions at the beginning that you thought was stupid came into play in the last part this was a master chess game i beg you watch it again everything clicks into place in the end
I thought that was whole point of this episode as in all ST incarnations they have mentioned the genetics way and that genetically modified species were treated as vermin I had always wondered how is it that the federation can put this infringement in place and not learn from earths own mistakes to me this showed that the federation has flaws too and Gene Roddenberry would have never signed off on this episode
i thought this was superbly written every dought i had before this episode about the federations flaws and stubbornness to even listen and the twist at the end bravo
Did you literally watch the video I made? I said they come in at the end but explain why they are stupid in the moment
Didnt enterprise state denobulans perfected genetic alterations and it was standard for them. If true phlox was altered and in starfleet no issue. It also stated it was for earth humans only. So how is this whole trial possible?
Phlox was part of an officer exchange program, he wasn’t technically Starfleet.
But this trial probably shouldn’t have happened.
Is this the first time that you addressed the new trek?
Nobody is born gay. SNW series two was worse than series one. No two ways about it.
Actually, both seasons/series of SNW are great despite a couple of flaws. No show is perfect.
I get it, the current writers were weaksauce, this isn't Measure of a Man or Drumhead. Still seems fine.
Did you… even watch it
I think throughout the show history, almost everything has been done at one point, to do anything new without alienating or angering the fans would be impossible. Look at the musical, it is the only musical(to my knowledge) in 56 plus years and some people were absolutely furious.
The only things the writers could have their shit approved would be trying desperately to promote recent trends and appease all of the sexual minorities. Regarding SNW, at least they're making each episode interesting unlike Discovery.
Did it have actual judge and lawyers from star Fleet JAG or just random admirals and captains not qualified for the jobs?
It is a Courts Martial, if the Starfleet JAG is anything like modern day's courts martial they are not law professionals, just career-climber officers with (sometimes) a law degree and self serving motivations.
The defendant had to hire her own lawyer, because she was offered an useless subordinate officer, that answered to the accusation...
@@carloshenriquezimmer7543 few what I've heard after first seeing is they do have a JAG. as any military should.
drumhead never really impressed me
I want to see Mud (Remastered)
I quite enjoyed SNW
Great video
Watch that crossover one. 😂
Watch episode 3
I totally agree that this court scene is amazing I think the emotional impact is what makes it better than a measure of a man, and is way better than drum head
Tng did this better
This would be a fun debate. It would be 3 on 3 but the participants don’t get to pick the said they want and have 1 hour to get ready.
It's about time to bring the Master Chief, Sierra 117, to the franchise and make humanities' enemies pay for what they have done!😠