I think this channel has saved me about $800 over the last 3 months. You have guided nearly every purchase and for the first time in ages, I’m actually happy with my setup and the amount of $ I had to sacrifice to get it. Thanks a million! You are PCMR heroes.
Lol, same here! I just found out I do not need to upgrade my 3600 for my 4k monitor and if I do, I will not have to upgrade my b450 tomahawk. Keep up the good work!
oreoeatsoreos gigabyte X570 aorus elite pro WiFi, ryzen 5 3600, ASUS Tuf 3080 OC (I’m one of the lucky few), Viotek VFT27DB 1440p 144hz TN monitor, 32gb or 3600mhz g-skill trident ram, WD black 1tb ssd, 8 input output Focusrite Scarlett audio interface...I think that’s all that I’ve set up recently. I almost bought a sub-par 3080 with Apple Pay on Newegg, and I almost went with a 4K monitor that would’ve cost me a fortune and wouldn’t have actually suited my needs. For my very specific needs and budget the review of the viotek monitor surprised me and I couldn’t be happier with its performance (I got it for $245 which didn’t hurt).
Lol re-reading it it seems odd to mention Apple Pay and Newegg but I mention it anytime I mention my 3080 because it is the only way you can have a chance or getting one sans bots.
Sticking with my B450 Tomahawk. It was a great buy when I built my system and proving to have been an even better now. When I dropped that R5 2600 into it I never expected I'd be able to replace it with a 5000 series down the road. Your reviews were a major factor in me choosing the B450 Tomahawk, so thank you!
Board itself is good, but onboard audio is totally garbage especially mic input sound like from inside pipe from behind thick wall. Thats why i used that mobo in other computer and bought B450 gaming carbon AC 2 yrs ago.
@@danielstormy3660 I'm glad that I've seen someone else complain about the audio on these boards. I went from a 10 year old Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5R up to the B450 Tomahawk Max, where the downgrade in audio all around really took me back. Had to go purchase an external DAC and headphone amp!
@@Inimigo85 If you not planning buy 5000 series cpu then not, but Tomahawk B550 can be nice upgrade, onboard audio is much better too+ 2,5Gbit lan network onboard, also much stronger VRM for cpu, for future upgrades its better imo.
I must say, you make by far the most detailed, and easy to watch (without annoying nonsense) reviews on youtube. I also like watching jayz and linus etc, but if I want the fastest and most detailed non biased information about my upcoming purchase, it is your channel. Thank you so much. Keep up the good work.
I went from casual Linus and Jay video to never watching them again and just sticking to HW Unboxed and Gamers Nexus. After so many videos, I find Jay & Linus childish and out of touch.
@@592Johno I was thinking about the same. Im just buying a new PC and looking for a mobo/cpu to last 4 years to 6 years . The thing is, I will buy a 3070 and I need 1 PCIe 4.0 so I gotta go with b550m
Yeah same. The whole selling point was not needing new boards to upgrade the cpu but loads go out and buy a new one regardless. Tbh I don't know if I'll even upgrade the 2600x until it starts flagging in games and that seems a long way off atm.
I upgraded my B450 Tomahawk MAX to a B550 Asrock Extreme4, but that was because I cheaped out back in January due to budget constraints and the Tomahawk wasn't doing what I needed it to do. The extra m.2 slot, front panel USB-C, and ARGB support are all features I now can take advantage of. The latter being the most important because as everyone knows, RGB lighting boosts your TTK in Animal Crossing by 75%+
I can’t stress this enough you guys don’t deserve anything under 5 million. You guys deserve so many more subs. You guys make some of the best and most detailed videos that have saved people so much money. Keep up the good work don’t let fame get to your head
I know this is a 2 year old vid but I have some info. I bought a r5 5500 chip and did the bios upgrades on the b450 ds3h motherboard to support it. The difference in performance was awesome. I ran a cinebench 23 stability check on the board with a r3 2200g chip and got a reading of 4200 points. I upgraded the bios and installed the r5 5500 chip. Everything was the same on the board and system. I got a cinebench score of 10,000 points with the new chip and perfectly stable. I am more than satisfied with my upgrade.
@@pauljoseph3081 I agree with that conclusion. But. the 3060 is a PCIe4 device and you may have a slight performance hit going with a PCIe3 board, maybe a couple of FPS. It won't be much.
@@MatthewNoPants1atoll i got it feb 2020 113€ for r3600 .Yes its good perform and build quality mobo. I probably will not upgrade to 5000 bcuz in my case r3600 is more then enough for what i doing.
are you going to stay with the same board even upgrading GPU? I just wonder, I have x470 with Ryzen 2700x paired with 5700xt, going to upgrade either GPU or CPU, I want to see review before how 3200mhz RAM works with the new Ryzen. Or upgrade both and skit Xbox one series X hahah
@@yosefm170 I'm currently running an RX570 - Has served me well for almost 2 years. I just got a 1440p/144Hz monitor and RX570 does a decent job at medium/low. It seems like the 1700 mostly won't be bottlenecking a 3080 at 1440p ultra.
@@calvinrohanraj8511 no way I have the same set up. Rx570 and just upgraded my monitor to 1440p/144hz, am going for the same upgrade path. Next upgrade is gpu. I’m running a 2600 CPU
@@yosefm170 3200 MHz Ram is absolutely no problem since 3rd Gen Ryzen, see the Videos from Gamers Nexus "RAM for Ryzen". I've just bought the cheapest 3600 MHz CL17 16GB Kit I've got for my Ryzen 5 3600 Build, Patriot Viper 4 Blackout, they run perfectly fine @3600 MHz CL16 19 19 39 on my MSI B450 Tomahawk. 😉
@@WiTRoOner Wow. I had the option of buying the 2600 or the 1700 - Went for the 1700 solely because I thought that I would do some engineering simulations - Yet to do anything demanding enough.... 3070 and 3080 are quite good, until BIG NAVI and the SUPER series come at least........
On the same boat as you. Been with Ryzen since launch. Currently running a GTX 1080 for 1080p 144 Hz gaming. Will be upgrading to RTX 3080 (or AMD equivalent) to do 1440p 144 Hz gaming.
I just plugged a 5600 into my son's MSI Carbon B450 Gaming AC board after we updated to the latest BIOS, and it works perfectly. Lots of life left in the B450. You can easily get 10 years out of these current systems now.
Going to wait till dec or Jan and get a b550 with ryzen 5800 and 3080 for my first build. Been saving up for this since july. Also going to get on their patreon too!! 3080 might change to a amd gpu depending on what we see in a few weeks.
@@JCerris ikr jeez, my first build was an i3-4150 with a r9 270x. That build then upgraded to an i5-4460 with an rx 580 and it's still going hard. Playing whatever I throw at it, although I have to compromise graphics a bit now. Extremely happy with that first build :)
Dang, my first build was right at the beginning of 2020 and it was a ryzen 5 2600 with an rtx 2060 (not sure why I went with the 2060 in hindsight, might of been everything I heard about AMD drivers)
hello there Steve and Tim, in a previous video about B550 boards, you said that you would be doing an investigation piece on ITX boards. I was wondering if the video is still in the works and will be coming soon. Love your content
@@Whambow yeah I love buildzoid and his ramblings but his is only on theoretical analysis of board components and assumed performance as he doesn't have the resources to buy more than 3-4 boards to actually test.
My 2 cents: i am personally biased towards MSI. The hardware is usually good, the bioses are very good with all required features and not many bugs. They are usually first to release the bios updates and don't randomly drop the support(looking at you asus). Asrock have clunky bios and poor support, and i have a curse which makes me break any pc i touch that has a gigabyte board in it so just stearing clear off them. ;) I'd get the msi itx but i'd have to drill a hole in the io backplate to be able to connect the clear cmos jumper with a screwdriver or instead of drilling I'd wire a case button to it as msi placed it in the dumbest place ever. I'd look at Asus as my second choice.
The mobo options are rough out here for us m-ATX owners. Was thinking to maybe sink the cost of switching to an ATX case when I upgrade mobo & CPU together next year. But B550M Mortar looks like it has everything I want, might just go with that.
@@CujohRamirez At this point I'm also debating just waiting for the DDR5 boards since that's coming mid next year. I don't want to be stuck on DDR4 if it's obsolete soon, but I don't actually know how long it will take for DDR5 to be very good. For all we know the timings might be so shit on DDR5 that it isn't even better than DDR4. It might take years for the upgrade to be worth it.
Your 3600/3090 test showed how much more important the gpu is nowadays. I can't see upgrading the 3600 for years, and when I do, it'll be for a 5000 series when they are at their cheapest
@@Dee0426 what did you choose? I really want to upgrade from my 3600, but i want to change even the mobo and the ram (now i have a B450 MSI PRO CARBON - G.skill 3000mhz (16gb)), i dont know what to do
@@ilTubodiEliGabri3600mhz16cl, 5700x or 5800x3d basically for upgrades depending on your budget. Higher cores only for productivity, but not gaming. B550 tomahawk is a good mobo. I would upgrade the cpu and then see if you really need the rest. Upgrading the ram is pretty cheap and go for 2x16gb. Not smaller modules. 16+ gb is the norm for pc gaming already.
Just upgraded my daughter's PC from Ryzen 3 3000 series to Ryzen 9 5950x. Yep, Bios upgrade did the trick! It is a Gigabyte B450 motherboard. QFlash took about 6 minutes to run.
I already decided to wait for the BIOS update on my x470 because there are other advantages to this: 1. Of course, no additional costs, 2. Hardware bugs get ironed out at the beginning(like the broken Random Number Generator on Zen 2), 3. BIOS bugs get ironed out in the first months, 4. Software/OS bugs get fixed in the first months, 5. Processors get cheaper after ~2 months, usually.
That was exactly my question and a very full answer, thank you. Gigabyte B450M Gaming and R7 2700. A 3000 series CPU upgrade was not compelling, looking at 5000 series upgrade, sticking with the B450M. I might want a better than stock cooler for more than 8 cores but it seems the Mobo will be fine.
I just wanna share i have b450 mobo and I bought ryzen 7 5800x and rx6800xt so in the first place what i did is update my mobo bios that can support amd 5000 series,then restart it,surprise my ryzen 5 2600 still work even after update in the same mobo,now i install my ryzen 7 5800x and rx6800xt it work it even enable or it support smart access memory im really surprises everthing work good 🤙👌✌️ My achievements here is to get 200 + fps in warzone and it did...b450 mobo is still rocking untill now a days long live b450 thanks to to amd too😎
I bought a msi b550 pro Vdh wifi based on Steve's recommendation. It's a cracking good board with most of the features of the b450 tomahawk max and pcie 4.0 support in addition. Great value too , since I got it for the same price as the tomahawk costs in my country. Cheers!
I can't agree it's a great value, more like Tomahawk is overpriced. Not sure if Mortar Max is available in your country, but for the most part it's a better and cheaper Tomahawk. And for the 6 core processor any of those boards is a huge overkill, instead you could get a 70$ board and it would work perfectly. I don't get why everyone recommends buying Tomahawk, really. Unless you can clearly say to yourself why you need B550 board, or you are certain about upgrading to 5900X at some point in the future, there is virtually no reason to get such a high end motherboard.
You absolute legend(s)! I don't know if you saw my comment but I asked this question only a few days ago on a Q&A thread you put up and this basically answers it! I'd be interested to see how the 400 and 500 series VRMs fair with the new Zen 3 chips when they're up and running, I'd look forwards to seeing that video. Cheers again, keep up the great work!
Revisiting to say thanks! this video that saved my wallet for unnecessary upgrade, still have my B450 from a 2700X > 5700X and now 5800X3D paired with a 4070.
Even having to discuss this makes me feel like Intel has a point (to a degree) by making CPU-Motherboard compatibility clear-cut and understandable. As an enthusiast, I highly value what AMD is offering in terms of support and compatibility. But as a regular person wanting to build a PC, I'd absolutely hate having to study which chipset comes with which features and which CPU support, after which bios upgrades (what are those even). Also, PCIe 4.0 requires not only CPU support, but also better trace layouts to support double the frequency without interference or data loss. Some motherboards could show unstable PCIe behavior if the tracing isn't up to scratch. It is like 2,5G Ethernet over Cat5e - possible, many cables will do that without problem, but some won't, thus no official support.
Got my MSI B450m Mortar Max bios all updated ready to go for an upgrade to a 5600 from a 1600af. Still have my 1600af still running for the time being. I bought a 5600 online and a new cooler, just waiting for them to arrive in the mail. So excited!
Hey, how did it go? I was happy with ease of 5600x upgrade but I started with an X570 at a B550 price. I have a heap of SSD/HDD so liked extra connectivity.
@@RobBCactive I Installed the 5600 into the motherboard and installed the new cooler and it was issue free and ran great. I mostly just play games,watch movies and browse the internet though so unsure how it preforms with CPU intensive tasks. I found while playing Halo Infinite it was a smoother experience with the 5600 and my RX 5700. I was getting performance dips randomly in the Campaign while using my 1600af. Horizon Zero Dawn I got a major fps uplift and a much smoother playing experience. So b450 owners wont be disappointed if they plan to upgrade to the 5000 series and keep using what they already have. A Ryzen 5 5600, a decent x2 8 gig 3200mhz/3600mhz kit of ram and a last gen or a latest graphics card that has PCIe 3 backwards compatibility is very much do able for gaming. SSD speed doesn't really matter with playing games. Games run fine off Sata and Nvme gen 3. In the end though I got the building bug and ended up upgrading to a 1tb m.2 ssd gen 3 nvme, a ram kit to a higher frequency 3600mhz, a new atx case and upgraded my motherboard to a atx x570s. I managed to find one on sale which was cheaper than the B550. B550 boards at the time were similar price to some X570 offerings. Of course I guess the extra bandwidth for more drives is beneficial if you go X570.
I upgraded from the AM3 to the AM4 platform, went with a MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max, Ryzen 5 5600G, and 16GB DDR4 memory. had to upgrade the Bios to support the processor, after which I upgraded the Bios to the latest release. with the AM5 platform coming out this year, I'm glad I did the upgrade. AMD is going over to a LGA socket and DDR5 memory.... the PGA platform is on its last leg.... now with the AMD platforms AM2,3,and 4 supporting Windows 10 there are tons of older systems that will work just fine for years to come. computers don't die anymore... they just get reused....
And your comment save me! I already have a B450M Steel Legend with 3600X and that’s the answer we want to know! Thanks! Our MOBOS will get the job for 5000! I’m so happy.
Thanks to all these concise reviewers I went all out with a Gigabyte X570 Master. Although a Pro would suffice for 16 core. I chose it for thunderbolt headers though as there is other suitable boards also. Assuming its rev 1.1 and it actually has the header !
My new R9 5900x which I have boughtas new few weeks ago, is placed in a Rog B450 F gaming along wiht 32 gig and Radeon 7800xt, bought yesterday. Starfield 62-65 fps all max, Withcer 3 with RT ultra between 62 and 78 fps. CPU utilization around 25%. in Withcer and under 20% in Starfield.
I am in exactly this position, have a B450 MSI Tomahawk. All the misinformation I certainly appreciate you and your crew verifying this from AMD directly, I am eyeing the 5900X myself and I have been running a Ryzen 7 2700X for almost 2.5 years.
would someone please finally unbox Harvard?! on topic: still with B450 here and not planning to switch yet. my R5 2600 is still absolutely capable and I might change once the 5600X will drop in price
My friend is going to upgrade from an R5 1600 to 5600/X. I was originally planning to find him a good B550 motherboard, but since he won't be utilizing PCIE 4.0 or higher than 1 Gbit LAN, I might just go with a B450 board instead. Saving upwards of $50 here is considerable for us.
Don't see much point upgrading from 1600 to 5600X, to be honest. Unless you are jumping to 5800X, the difference probably won't be immediately noticeable.
@@Derael the performance per watt improvement was already large enough from the 1600 to 3600. Unless you have a really budget gpu, the difference will most likely be quite big with the 5600x (of course, wait for third-party benchmarks)
@@colbeh Well, on the contrary, if you are playing at 1440p resolution, 1600 shouldn't bottleneck most GPUs, unless it's better than 2080 Ti. And even if it will bottleneck them, the difference won't be to the point when one is unplayable and the other is great, you will still be able to play any game at medium-high, just at lower FPS. I mean, if you have the money to buy both 500$+ GPU and a 300$+ processor, go for it, but don't be surprised if the performance difference won't be groundbreaking. This is reasonable for a new PC, but as an upgrade, it doesn't make much sense to me. But well, I finished Witcher 3 on a 10 years old PC with Radeon 5850 GPU without any issues, so it might be just me who doesn't get that rush to upgrade every 2-3 years. I did notice the difference after upgrading to 2600, but that was a huge generation leap, I'm not sure anything below 50% uplift is worth it, and I'm not quite sure that 5600 will provide 50% more FPS than 1600 at higher resolution.
@@lurkxz5426 for PCI 3 with 16x there is no known issue... the main issue is the Pci 3 8x or any prior Gen with only 8x or less prominent with the 4060 and the AMDs entry level GPU that also runs on PCIe4 x8...
Not that most people should care, but there's one thing you missed: You CAN get b550 boards that split the 16x 4.0 slot into 2 x8 slots. I just got the vision d, which does exactly that. It doesn't make dual GPUs super viable by any means, but it better than an x4 3.0 or 2.0 link for your second device. Especially since we have seen the 10900k (which has the equivalent of 4.0 x8 bandwidth) pushing the 3090 to the limits already, that means you can run a GPU in that top spot at x8, and another high speed device below at x8 as well and not worry. That's not a hugely important use case, but information is good.
@@RUclipsTookMyNickname.WhyNot yeah I'm sure. I didn't find the description ambiguous but I'm also fairly used to reading mobo specs. Not all b550 boards do this, for sure. This is a fairly high end quasi-workstation board, so they paid to ensure signal integrity was good enough, and for the PCIe switches necessary to split the lanes up as needed. But it is 2 4.0 x8 connections, not one 4.0 and one 3.0.
@@xXDESTINYMBXx just ordered it, but I can update this with testing if desired. Planning to stick a 5950x in there. Only gripe I have spec-wise is the lack of >1gbps ethernet (tho as someone who uses Linux and bsd I do appreciate the Intel NICs for better compatibility)
@@xXDESTINYMBXx sure, I'll do that. Btw that's a feature called NIC teaming but it's in software, so latency is a thing, and for me not worth it. I'd probably just have 1 spare or if I am running a VM I can have 1 connection for the VM and one for the host
I agree with what others have said about how valuable this channel is when making informed purchasing decisions. If I'm looking to invest in new PC hardware, this is THE channel I watch FIRST... and then as a refresher, just before I pull the trigger and open my wallet. Absolutely indispensable.
I'd love to stick with my MSI B450 Tomahawk (non-max) but i remember reading that the bios update for Ryzen 3000 was so unstable and broken on this particular board that it kept me from upgrading to an R5 3600 (currently running a R5 2600). So fingers crossed it won't be the same fiasco this time... Really want that 5600x next year.
@METhOdhowtoKilLnoObS asrock boards do have a thermal limit. The older ones didn't. Modern vrms can run at up to 100-120c, which Isn't good by any means, but they will probably die before they burn. If the vrm exceeds a certain thermal threshold It will just shut down, unless you disabled over-temp protection in which case you have the smallest brain in your city for sure.
this video made me choose B450 last week. i had a B350 with 1800x . i upgraded everything except the cpu . and got a B450 board ; because i got a better board (on discount) the cpu clocks higher and the ram is stable on higher speed . and i'm ready for ryzen 5000. pci-e 4 is something i don't need. because i saved on that part of the pc . i got a 3070ti. built it in a lian li lancool 2 mesh and mounted 10 fans . 2 on the dark rock 4 cpu cooler . and 8 corsair rgb strips . cable managed like a semi pro build .
I bought myself X570 aorus master a week ago and im waiting for 5900X to get my hands on, but i gotta make sure that its working just fine. So my question is, when i want to use that new zen 3 cpu on my mobo, can i actually like use usb to inject some sorta new bios into it so when i put my cpu its going to run fine? Just asking cuz im not a pc wizard
@@liquidsunshine697 Blazing fast, only thing that Taxes it is Microsoft Flight Sim at 1440 Ultra. The CPU runs fine with a noctua nh-u12s, Auto overclocks to 4.7ghz in its AMD software and the GPU Auto overclocks to 2.4ghz I'm sure. I do however have a Corsair RM850x powering it all. It Genuinely runs like a dream.
@@CharlySayz wow nice! I'm going from 2700x to 5600x paired with 5700xt. I just got the Noctua nh-u12s se I'm stoked. I have b450 and seems only difference is 2.5gbs port and PCIe 4.0 which isn't needed at all. Glad your setup works well!
@@liquidsunshine697 Yeh, nearly upgraded my board as well then realised its pointless for what I need it for. Not like I'm aiming to do big bios overclocks or stress anything lol. It will def be quite a few years before I next upgrade :)
last year i've upgraded from i4770k to ryzen 7 3700x. Out of researching for each component nothing took me longer to find MOBO that I wont have to complain about - extremely exhausting research for couple days as wanted to have value and features that I would use - didnt want to buy things that are expensive and fancy. Bough b450 tomahawk max and running 5800x on it today :) no issues with the mobo so far and its been well over a year.
i dont even know why im watching this video, i own a X570 Board, so this is basically irrelevant info for me, still worth watching tho, just a nice video lol
There are plans for decompressing textures and other resources directly on graphics cards, so PCIe 4.0 might be useful for some future GPUs. Some people aren't planning on upgrading their CPUs/GPUs every two years, so that still might come in handy for them.
PCIe4 requires actual changes in the motherboard design. It's not just CPU that enables it. Some B450 mobos might be designed so that it enables support for PCIe4 but not all.
for anyone wondering: i can't recommend to upgrade to a 5900x on a b450 platform (msi tomahawk to be specific). only way to get the system stable is to set your ram to max 2133.
In Perth’s **PLE Computers** , the B450 MSI Tomahawk is AUD$209 and the B550 Aorus pro AC is only AUD$259. That’s a steal for the B550 right? The B550 is only AUD$50 more
I don't think that's a steal, since Tomahawk is usually overpriced. Check if B450 Mortar Max or B450 A-Pro is available in your country, they are basically the same as Tomahawk, but cheaper. And unless you are going to upgrade to 12+ core CPU, there is no reason to buy such an expesnive board, 60-80 USD board such as B450M Pro-VDH Max will work perfectly well in your PC. Another decent options are Gigabyte DS3H and S2H (if I remember models correctly).
My B450 Asus Strix gaming-F also had PCIe 4.0 support early on (in fact it was enabled by default) And it was a disaster! The 5700XT wouldn't work properly at all. once i turned it from auto to PCIe 3.0 the card works perfectly fine (and basically haven't had any problems since). There is clearly a bit more to PCIe 4.0 support then just that it comes from the CPU. the traces also need to be sufficient quality to allow for the higher frequencies usesd or something like that.
My only concern with my B450 and 3600 is that I might miss out on some performance when/if I upgrade to Big Navi. I guess it's probably not worth upgrading everything just for a little more gpu performance, but we'll see.
thanks, I have just built a b450 max + r3900x (stock fan) + gtx1060 6g (overclocked) build for 4k video editing, it works a charm and i no longer use proxies and can edit on full resolution no problem. I have not built a pc for 10 years and have been out of the loop so did not know that a 550 boards would have been more future proof, but what the hell, by the time I upgrade the 550 chipset will be old news anyways. My rig cost around £700 to build and i'm over the moon with performance.
Come on Steve... That PCI-E 4.0 comment wasnt accurate. I'm a subscriber to the channel for a year now, and I have great respect for your content. Yes PCI-E Xgen is enabled by the CPU but the board has to fulfill and meet certain standards (for traces and EMI) to run PCI-E4.0 that many B450 dont.
I upgraded to B550 for WiFi6. Didn't plan on upgrading the CPU, but while I had it disassembled I kept convincing myself to buy more and more parts. First a PCIe 4.0 NVME and then a 5900X. Then I was like well my case sucks so I might as well buy one of those too. Upside is I now had most of the parts to build that NAS I've been wanting for so long. So I bought a power supply, a dual port NIC, a RX550, and now I guess I'm on the hunt for a bunch of huge hard drives to throw in an UnRAID box.
@@om95kboy The b550 and x570 are the same generation of boards with the same socket. They will be supported for the same amount of time. Support duration is not something that matters here.
Thank you so much for this video. Cleared up my mind about upgrading. I'll stick to what I have and wait for the Jan 2021 bios, and then get a nice new shiny Zen 3 cpu
I was doing an upgrade with Ryzen 5000-series in mind and had no plan to replace it in next 2-3 years, so I went for Aorus B550 Pro AC and took R3 3100 for temporary usage until 5500/5600 comes to the local shops and OC the snot out of it. I had H81 board with 4690 in it before that.
Ryzens oc is memory overclocking includojg subtimings. Buy a good kit of memory (crucial ballistix) if you actually want performance gains rather than a waste of power and more heat output.
@@gftyuibm avoid newest BIOS. I went from F1 to F10 and started to have OC stability issues and if there was no load on GPU, the whole computer stuttered after every 15-20s or so. downgraded to F2 version and all is golden. temps are fine, my R3 3100 (which is low-end, but fits fine for time being) is happy at 4.4GHz.
@@aliancemd if it goes to or past the advertised turbo clock, it's already great. in my case, 3.9 advertised, runs 4.4. lots of luck included with the silicon lottery, as I had back in the days i5 2500k that was lapped and was 24/7 nicely at 5.1GHz. good old times
Most B450 have only one M2 NVMe conector, and most B550 have 2 x M2 NVMe, one suported by CPU ( PCIe 4 for ryzen 5xxx non G - 5600G and 5700G only PCIe 3) and one by chipset ( PCIe 3). This is a big diference if you want a second M2 SSD (without using some odd adaptor from PCIe slot).
I can't be bothered keep upgrading the pc every year its just a waste of money plus we all haven't got the money to upgrade all the time I have a 2700x and x470-f motherboard and a 590 sapphire GPU and 32 gig of ddr4 3000 memory and I won't be upgrading anytime soon with how much all that cost me a year ago I just game and mess about with VMs which bearly get powered up I have no slow downs it is soild performance
The 2700x is still a great CPU of course, but the IPC is much lower than Zen 2 and that's going to hurt it in gaming because of the Zen 2 cores in the new consoles. I'll keep using my 3600x this year, and will upgrade to a 5800 when those start being sold used or go on special on black friday in a year or two
If you already have a B450 board, no need to upgrade unless you really need other features. If you're building from scratch, go for a B550 board unless the CPU you're buying isn't supported (Ryzen 1000, 2000, APUs). That's my opinion about this.
Good information, thank you Hardware Unboxed! I am curious though as to why discussions of 400-series boards invariably involve the B450, with almost nothing about X470 boards. A comparison of X470 vs. B550 might be useful (not so much B570 because of cost!).
It's still always better to aim for the future, rather than just go with the cheapest. for Mobo it's always better to spend the money needed for it than to cheap out.
I have and always will have its place to "future-proof" If you expect you PC to last many years, going with cheap parts that is already a few years when you buy it is not the best choice. Sure a 10900k/5950x with a 3090 will loose alot more value than something like a 5600x/3070 setup that is still likely to be "mid tier" in a few years
@@urlond9371 One thing is to cheap out, another one is value, another one is the best of the best, another one is to pay for features you won't use because they have no use, even with a 3090.
@@ssu7653 I think you are missing the point. If you go for a 10900k/5950x with a 3090, as you said, it's not because you care about "future-proofing", it's because you want the best of the best, period. Next year, you'll sell the 3090, and buy the 4100. Like the same way people were panic-selling their 2080ti to get a 3080.
@@amaurytoloza1511 Bouth yes and no, if you want the best system in 5 years that is never the one thats already mid/lower tier today :P There ARE people that do or have done this in the past, not saying its a smart choice but it happens. Same with the people buying a "barely good enough" PC today expecting it to last 10 years, stupid choice.
I spent so far $800 to get ready for the RTX 30: R5 3600, x570 Tomahawk WiFi, 32 GB Trident 3600, 1TB Intel Mv.2 SDD, couple of old SSDs, 850W BeQuiet! Power Zone in an old Cosmos II ultra tower case. Zen3 is planned only for fall 2021.
Are you trying to tell me that I will have to upgrade from X370 to something more capable? But I am a gamer man... All I need is to keep up with graphics cards!
Love the spatulas on the shelf. Very subtle addition to that 3000 series card. Glad you're following nvidia's guidance and properly storing your card by spatulas.
Got the same (B350) - bought it with the Ryzen 5 1600, soon after ryzen launched. I will probably upgrade to 3600 or 3700x after 5000 launch, those zen 2 processor should be even cheapper :)
@@SimonMedia666 they wont lol the new cpus are priced at +300$. Thats higher then the 3700x which is around 270-280$ so unless the 5600x goes down to ~270$ the zen 2 processors wont get cheaper coz theres no concurrent in this price range
PCI-E 4.0 support requires PCI-E connections and traces on the motherboard that are more robust and up to spec for the signal-to-noise requirements of PCI-E 4.0 and whatnot, and many users of 400-series chipset boards with the PCI-E 4.0-supporting BIOS started complaining about instability issues after they updated to that BIOS which auto-enabled it, so they later removed that support altogether in later BIOS revisions.
probably because for "mainstream", it's plenty. If you're actually NEEDING more lanes, you're not really in "mainstream" any more, you're an "enthusiast". Time to go ThreadRipper ;)
@@burnsyd17 I've been buying enthusiast for ever, but come on, Threadripper has 88 now, and x299 has 44. 40 on mainstream would be nice. Also, I have threadripper computer, an x299 gaming system, an x99 gaming system, three x79 machines, and an old x58 too. A few x370 machines too. I still think 40 pcie lanes should be mainstream by now.
The problem is, they will only be shipping out BIOS versions on B450 starting from January 2021. So if you want to upgrade, you have to wait at least until then...
Just purchased the Asus ROG Strix B550-F motherboard. The USD price was reduced to $174.99, from $189.99. Newegg has an instant $10 off coupon, and Asus is offering an additional $25 mail in rebate if purchased before November 30th, from either Newegg, or Microcenter.
Look at it this way: The A520 boards will support Zen 3 just fine, and they are barely upgraded A320s. If the board partners would permit, it would actually not be impossible for 300 series boards to support Zen 3.
I think this channel has saved me about $800 over the last 3 months. You have guided nearly every purchase and for the first time in ages, I’m actually happy with my setup and the amount of $ I had to sacrifice to get it. Thanks a million! You are PCMR heroes.
Indeed!
Lol, same here! I just found out I do not need to upgrade my 3600 for my 4k monitor and if I do, I will not have to upgrade my b450 tomahawk. Keep up the good work!
specs?
oreoeatsoreos gigabyte X570 aorus elite pro WiFi, ryzen 5 3600, ASUS Tuf 3080 OC (I’m one of the lucky few), Viotek VFT27DB 1440p 144hz TN monitor, 32gb or 3600mhz g-skill trident ram, WD black 1tb ssd, 8 input output Focusrite Scarlett audio interface...I think that’s all that I’ve set up recently.
I almost bought a sub-par 3080 with Apple Pay on Newegg, and I almost went with a 4K monitor that would’ve cost me a fortune and wouldn’t have actually suited my needs. For my very specific needs and budget the review of the viotek monitor surprised me and I couldn’t be happier with its performance (I got it for $245 which didn’t hurt).
Lol re-reading it it seems odd to mention Apple Pay and Newegg but I mention it anytime I mention my 3080 because it is the only way you can have a chance or getting one sans bots.
8:20 for B450 owners
Thanks
jajaja thank you
0:21 there he also said it
thanks!
Thanks for the TLDR. :)
Sticking with my B450 Tomahawk. It was a great buy when I built my system and proving to have been an even better now. When I dropped that R5 2600 into it I never expected I'd be able to replace it with a 5000 series down the road. Your reviews were a major factor in me choosing the B450 Tomahawk, so thank you!
Board itself is good, but onboard audio is totally garbage especially mic input sound like from inside pipe from behind thick wall. Thats why i used that mobo in other computer and bought B450 gaming carbon AC 2 yrs ago.
@@danielstormy3660 I'm glad that I've seen someone else complain about the audio on these boards. I went from a 10 year old Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5R up to the B450 Tomahawk Max, where the downgrade in audio all around really took me back. Had to go purchase an external DAC and headphone amp!
@@danielstormy3660 have the same board and a 2600x, will it be worth it upgrade to 5000 series?
@@Inimigo85 If you not planning buy 5000 series cpu then not, but Tomahawk B550 can be nice upgrade, onboard audio is much better too+ 2,5Gbit lan network onboard, also much stronger VRM for cpu, for future upgrades its better imo.
@@LewisHamiltonMSPR 892 chip is trash but these Realtek 1200,1220 are ok, mic input is no problem.
I must say, you make by far the most detailed, and easy to watch (without annoying nonsense) reviews on youtube. I also like watching jayz and linus etc, but if I want the fastest and most detailed non biased information about my upcoming purchase, it is your channel. Thank you so much. Keep up the good work.
Facts.
Agreed!
Precisely this! No nonsense and clear info that is easy to digest
I went from casual Linus and Jay video to never watching them again and just sticking to HW Unboxed and Gamers Nexus. After so many videos, I find Jay & Linus childish and out of touch.
@@easley421 A lot of us have also been through that transition
I'm defo sticking to my B450 board
Right? B450 & 3600. Looking forward to a 3080 or 6900 and I don't see the point of upgrading again until DDR5 is out and affordable.
Lmao I just bought b450 steel legend and r5 3600. I don't need the latest
@@592Johno I was thinking about the same. Im just buying a new PC and looking for a mobo/cpu to last 4 years to 6 years . The thing is, I will buy a 3070 and I need 1 PCIe 4.0 so I gotta go with b550m
@@floki6548 you dont need a PCIe 4.0 slot, it works on a PCIe 3 slot with practically no performance difference
Yeah same.
The whole selling point was not needing new boards to upgrade the cpu but loads go out and buy a new one regardless.
Tbh I don't know if I'll even upgrade the 2600x until it starts flagging in games and that seems a long way off atm.
I upgraded my B450 Tomahawk MAX to a B550 Asrock Extreme4, but that was because I cheaped out back in January due to budget constraints and the Tomahawk wasn't doing what I needed it to do. The extra m.2 slot, front panel USB-C, and ARGB support are all features I now can take advantage of. The latter being the most important because as everyone knows, RGB lighting boosts your TTK in Animal Crossing by 75%+
best thing about those chipsets is that they both start with Beef.
Beef or fifty
@@JamesLivas Beef I’ve fifty
Where's the beef!!!!
Yummy 😋
I just had beef for dinner
I can’t stress this enough you guys don’t deserve anything under 5 million. You guys deserve so many more subs. You guys make some of the best and most detailed videos that have saved people so much money. Keep up the good work don’t let fame get to your head
I can confirm after recently upgrading my B450 ASUS tuf gaming+ motherboard with a BIOS UPDATE, MY RYZEN5700x works flawlessly.
I know this is a 2 year old vid but I have some info. I bought a r5 5500 chip and did the bios upgrades on the b450 ds3h motherboard to support it. The difference in performance was awesome. I ran a cinebench 23 stability check on the board with a r3 2200g chip and got a reading of 4200 points. I upgraded the bios and installed the r5 5500 chip. Everything was the same on the board and system. I got a cinebench score of 10,000 points with the new chip and perfectly stable. I am more than satisfied with my upgrade.
Thanks, I was torn between b450 v b550 😅
the b450 board is PCIe3 the b550 is PCIe4 with a r5 5600 chip.
@@cerescop But I guess B450 suits my RTX 3060 well than B550, I mean cost wise
@@pauljoseph3081 I agree with that conclusion. But. the 3060 is a PCIe4 device and you may have a slight performance hit going with a PCIe3 board, maybe a couple of FPS. It won't be much.
@@cerescopyou wont notice the difference
Yes, in any case. I switched from the R5 2600x on a B450 Tomahawk Max to the R5 5600x. It works perfectly. Highly recommended 👍
I'm doing the same but coming from 3600x on a b450 tomahawk max. Got a good deal on the 5600x and I will just sell my 3600x.
@@TheForgetfulzee will definitely bring more performance but for me the jump was of course much bigger
I have 3600 and tomahawk max , wanna go for 5900x, will it be okay with a good cooler?
@@eatyourcarbs With the latest BIOS update the 5900x works absolutely perfect on the tomahawk
@@Pseudo_Placebo yay great news man. Thank you.
awesome news so i can keep my B450 Tomahawak, love this board!
Tell me about it haha
B450 Max baaaaaby. Such a good decision
@@MatthewNoPants1atoll i got it feb 2020 113€ for r3600 .Yes its good perform and build quality mobo.
I probably will not upgrade to 5000 bcuz in my case r3600 is more then enough for what i doing.
We will probably need an upgrade to pcie 4.0 due to rtx io, or maybe not, i dont know, but they dont talk about it in this video
@@ruganrugan6510 yeah but i will not be using pcie 4.0 :)
I was convinced to hold my B450 due to your roundup on the SSD speeds. Next upgrade: GPU (3080/Super or AMD equivalent).....
are you going to stay with the same board even upgrading GPU? I just wonder, I have x470 with Ryzen 2700x paired with 5700xt, going to upgrade either GPU or CPU, I want to see review before how 3200mhz RAM works with the new Ryzen. Or upgrade both and skit Xbox one series X hahah
@@yosefm170 I'm currently running an RX570 - Has served me well for almost 2 years. I just got a 1440p/144Hz monitor and RX570 does a decent job at medium/low. It seems like the 1700 mostly won't be bottlenecking a 3080 at 1440p ultra.
@@calvinrohanraj8511 no way I have the same set up. Rx570 and just upgraded my monitor to 1440p/144hz, am going for the same upgrade path. Next upgrade is gpu. I’m running a 2600 CPU
@@yosefm170 3200 MHz Ram is absolutely no problem since 3rd Gen Ryzen, see the Videos from Gamers Nexus "RAM for Ryzen".
I've just bought the cheapest 3600 MHz CL17 16GB Kit I've got for my Ryzen 5 3600 Build, Patriot Viper 4 Blackout, they run perfectly fine @3600 MHz CL16 19 19 39 on my MSI B450 Tomahawk. 😉
@@WiTRoOner Wow. I had the option of buying the 2600 or the 1700 - Went for the 1700 solely because I thought that I would do some engineering simulations - Yet to do anything demanding enough.... 3070 and 3080 are quite good, until BIG NAVI and the SUPER series come at least........
Really informative! Happy to know that I can stick to my B450 Tomahawk even if I decide to upgrade to 5000 series
B350 on R5 3600, I will need to sit out the next round
Just wait for ddr5 platforms.
@@karama300video I 100% agree I sit on i7 2600k + ddr3 1600 for 1080p is enough
Same here !
Ye, can wait for DDR5.
On the same boat as you. Been with Ryzen since launch.
Currently running a GTX 1080 for 1080p 144 Hz gaming.
Will be upgrading to RTX 3080 (or AMD equivalent) to do 1440p 144 Hz gaming.
Best pc channel on RUclips. Def will be holding onto my B450.
But they dont talk about rtx io in this video, mmmm
good for you, mate
I just plugged a 5600 into my son's MSI Carbon B450 Gaming AC board after we updated to the latest BIOS, and it works perfectly. Lots of life left in the B450. You can easily get 10 years out of these current systems now.
Going to wait till dec or Jan and get a b550 with ryzen 5800 and 3080 for my first build. Been saving up for this since july. Also going to get on their patreon too!!
3080 might change to a amd gpu depending on what we see in a few weeks.
That's quite the first build
@@JCerris ikr jeez, my first build was an i3-4150 with a r9 270x. That build then upgraded to an i5-4460 with an rx 580 and it's still going hard. Playing whatever I throw at it, although I have to compromise graphics a bit now. Extremely happy with that first build :)
😂
Dang, my first build was right at the beginning of 2020 and it was a ryzen 5 2600 with an rtx 2060 (not sure why I went with the 2060 in hindsight, might of been everything I heard about AMD drivers)
@@Blubididar they did suck at the time
hello there Steve and Tim, in a previous video about B550 boards, you said that you would be doing an investigation piece on ITX boards. I was wondering if the video is still in the works and will be coming soon. Love your content
We have all the boards, it will probably come after the Ryzen 5000 reviews are out of the way.
@@Hardwareunboxed Thanks for the update
Seconding this! Buildzoid analysis of B550 itx is too focused on OC for most users, and Optimum Tech's review was disappointingly flat.
@@Whambow yeah I love buildzoid and his ramblings but his is only on theoretical analysis of board components and assumed performance as he doesn't have the resources to buy more than 3-4 boards to actually test.
My 2 cents: i am personally biased towards MSI. The hardware is usually good, the bioses are very good with all required features and not many bugs. They are usually first to release the bios updates and don't randomly drop the support(looking at you asus). Asrock have clunky bios and poor support, and i have a curse which makes me break any pc i touch that has a gigabyte board in it so just stearing clear off them. ;) I'd get the msi itx but i'd have to drill a hole in the io backplate to be able to connect the clear cmos jumper with a screwdriver or instead of drilling I'd wire a case button to it as msi placed it in the dumbest place ever. I'd look at Asus as my second choice.
The mobo options are rough out here for us m-ATX owners.
Was thinking to maybe sink the cost of switching to an ATX case when I upgrade mobo & CPU together next year.
But B550M Mortar looks like it has everything I want, might just go with that.
i have the MSI B550M Mortar and it's really good and have a high potential for upgrades. so i would say it's worth it
@@CujohRamirez At this point I'm also debating just waiting for the DDR5 boards since that's coming mid next year.
I don't want to be stuck on DDR4 if it's obsolete soon, but I don't actually know how long it will take for DDR5 to be very good.
For all we know the timings might be so shit on DDR5 that it isn't even better than DDR4. It might take years for the upgrade to be worth it.
Your 3600/3090 test showed how much more important the gpu is nowadays.
I can't see upgrading the 3600 for years, and when I do, it'll be for a 5000 series when they are at their cheapest
That’s exactly what I did.
@@Dee0426 what did you choose? I really want to upgrade from my 3600, but i want to change even the mobo and the ram (now i have a B450 MSI PRO CARBON - G.skill 3000mhz (16gb)), i dont know what to do
@@ilTubodiEliGabri3600mhz16cl, 5700x or 5800x3d basically for upgrades depending on your budget. Higher cores only for productivity, but not gaming. B550 tomahawk is a good mobo.
I would upgrade the cpu and then see if you really need the rest. Upgrading the ram is pretty cheap and go for 2x16gb. Not smaller modules. 16+ gb is the norm for pc gaming already.
Just upgraded my daughter's PC from Ryzen 3 3000 series to Ryzen 9 5950x. Yep, Bios upgrade did the trick! It is a Gigabyte B450 motherboard. QFlash took about 6 minutes to run.
That 5% difference in PCIE4 is not worth upgrading IMO. Still have b450 with 5600g + rx6600 (PCIE3) - still rockin
I already decided to wait for the BIOS update on my x470 because there are other advantages to this: 1. Of course, no additional costs, 2. Hardware bugs get ironed out at the beginning(like the broken Random Number Generator on Zen 2), 3. BIOS bugs get ironed out in the first months, 4. Software/OS bugs get fixed in the first months, 5. Processors get cheaper after ~2 months, usually.
I'm waiting for the 5600 non X version and RDNA 2 to be readily available first quarter of 2021. Hopefully, the b450i can handle all of that.
Whereas I have to see multiple videos to clear one confusion, your one video dissolves multiple confusions. Just thanking you is way less.
That was exactly my question and a very full answer, thank you. Gigabyte B450M Gaming and R7 2700. A 3000 series CPU upgrade was not compelling, looking at 5000 series upgrade, sticking with the B450M. I might want a better than stock cooler for more than 8 cores but it seems the Mobo will be fine.
I just wanna share i have b450 mobo and I bought ryzen 7 5800x and rx6800xt so in the first place what i did is update my mobo bios that can support amd 5000 series,then restart it,surprise my ryzen 5 2600 still work even after update in the same mobo,now i install my ryzen 7 5800x and rx6800xt it work it even enable or it support smart access memory im really surprises everthing work good 🤙👌✌️
My achievements here is to get 200 + fps in warzone and it did...b450 mobo is still rocking untill now a days long live b450 thanks to to amd too😎
I bought a msi b550 pro Vdh wifi based on Steve's recommendation.
It's a cracking good board with most of the features of the b450 tomahawk max and pcie 4.0 support in addition.
Great value too , since I got it for the same price as the tomahawk costs in my country.
Cheers!
I can't agree it's a great value, more like Tomahawk is overpriced. Not sure if Mortar Max is available in your country, but for the most part it's a better and cheaper Tomahawk. And for the 6 core processor any of those boards is a huge overkill, instead you could get a 70$ board and it would work perfectly.
I don't get why everyone recommends buying Tomahawk, really.
Unless you can clearly say to yourself why you need B550 board, or you are certain about upgrading to 5900X at some point in the future, there is virtually no reason to get such a high end motherboard.
You absolute legend(s)! I don't know if you saw my comment but I asked this question only a few days ago on a Q&A thread you put up and this basically answers it! I'd be interested to see how the 400 and 500 series VRMs fair with the new Zen 3 chips when they're up and running, I'd look forwards to seeing that video. Cheers again, keep up the great work!
Cute of you to assume i can afford to upgrade
Don't know why anyone would put a 5000 series on a B450 to lose performance. If they can afford a 5000 series CPU they can afford a B550 Tomahawk.
This is why I love this channel. Exactly what I needed to know presented in a clear and enjoyable format. You guys have an excellent channel.
Revisiting to say thanks! this video that saved my wallet for unnecessary upgrade, still have my B450 from a 2700X > 5700X and now 5800X3D paired with a 4070.
Let's hope, for my sake and lots of other people's, that the non-Max variant of B450 Tomahawk will get the bios update in January 2021.
Of course they wills silly manfools
@@The_Man_In_Red Silence, wretched pagan! It cometh if Master Builder shall desireth so!!!
As soon as lowering settings stops working for 1080p, my current emergency budget build includes Asus Prime B450M-A II, Ryzen 5 5500, and RX 6650XT.
Even having to discuss this makes me feel like Intel has a point (to a degree) by making CPU-Motherboard compatibility clear-cut and understandable. As an enthusiast, I highly value what AMD is offering in terms of support and compatibility. But as a regular person wanting to build a PC, I'd absolutely hate having to study which chipset comes with which features and which CPU support, after which bios upgrades (what are those even).
Also, PCIe 4.0 requires not only CPU support, but also better trace layouts to support double the frequency without interference or data loss. Some motherboards could show unstable PCIe behavior if the tracing isn't up to scratch. It is like 2,5G Ethernet over Cat5e - possible, many cables will do that without problem, but some won't, thus no official support.
Got my MSI B450m Mortar Max bios all updated ready to go for an upgrade to a 5600 from a 1600af. Still have my 1600af still running for the time being. I bought a 5600 online and a new cooler, just waiting for them to arrive in the mail. So excited!
Hey, how did it go? I was happy with ease of 5600x upgrade but I started with an X570 at a B550 price.
I have a heap of SSD/HDD so liked extra connectivity.
@@RobBCactive I Installed the 5600 into the motherboard and installed the new cooler and it was issue free and ran great. I mostly just play games,watch movies and browse the internet though so unsure how it preforms with CPU intensive tasks. I found while playing Halo Infinite it was a smoother experience with the 5600 and my RX 5700. I was getting performance dips randomly in the Campaign while using my 1600af. Horizon Zero Dawn I got a major fps uplift and a much smoother playing experience. So b450 owners wont be disappointed if they plan to upgrade to the 5000 series and keep using what they already have. A Ryzen 5 5600, a decent x2 8 gig 3200mhz/3600mhz kit of ram and a last gen or a latest graphics card that has PCIe 3 backwards compatibility is very much do able for gaming. SSD speed doesn't really matter with playing games. Games run fine off Sata and Nvme gen 3.
In the end though I got the building bug and ended up upgrading to a 1tb m.2 ssd gen 3 nvme, a ram kit to a higher frequency 3600mhz, a new atx case and upgraded my motherboard to a atx x570s. I managed to find one on sale which was cheaper than the B550. B550 boards at the time were similar price to some X570 offerings.
Of course I guess the extra bandwidth for more drives is beneficial if you go X570.
This answered everything I wanted to know, thanks man!
I upgraded from the AM3 to the AM4 platform, went with a MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max, Ryzen 5 5600G, and 16GB DDR4 memory. had to upgrade the Bios to support the processor, after which I upgraded the Bios to the latest release. with the AM5 platform coming out this year, I'm glad I did the upgrade. AMD is going over to a LGA socket and DDR5 memory.... the PGA platform is on its last leg.... now with the AMD platforms AM2,3,and 4 supporting Windows 10 there are tons of older systems that will work just fine for years to come. computers don't die anymore... they just get reused....
so my b450m steel legend still get the job done for 5000 series :D thank you
And your comment save me! I already have a B450M Steel Legend with 3600X and that’s the answer we want to know!
Thanks! Our MOBOS will get the job for 5000! I’m so happy.
Same here steel legend i go for 5000 wit my b450 steel legend 👍
@@lunatsuki3913 Yeye Im glad my B450 Steel legend support ryzen 5000
Just upgraded to a 5800X. Very excited to see how it runs on my ASRock B450M Pro4
Thanks to all these concise reviewers I went all out with a Gigabyte X570 Master. Although a Pro would suffice for 16 core. I chose it for thunderbolt headers though as there is other suitable boards also. Assuming its rev 1.1 and it actually has the header !
My new R9 5900x which I have boughtas new few weeks ago, is placed in a Rog B450 F gaming along wiht 32 gig and Radeon 7800xt, bought yesterday. Starfield 62-65 fps all max, Withcer 3 with RT ultra between 62 and 78 fps. CPU utilization around 25%. in Withcer and under 20% in Starfield.
I'm running with a X470 board so i'm probably good for awhile.
Same here...but AMD isn't releasing bios support for it until January.
I am in exactly this position, have a B450 MSI Tomahawk. All the misinformation I certainly appreciate you and your crew verifying this from AMD directly, I am eyeing the 5900X myself and I have been running a Ryzen 7 2700X for almost 2.5 years.
would someone please finally unbox Harvard?!
on topic: still with B450 here and not planning to switch yet. my R5 2600 is still absolutely capable and I might change once the 5600X will drop in price
5600 leaked for early 2021, at around 220 USD
What a great video, 12mins of relevant content and no rambling. i found out exactly what I needed to know, thanks!
My friend is going to upgrade from an R5 1600 to 5600/X. I was originally planning to find him a good B550 motherboard, but since he won't be utilizing PCIE 4.0 or higher than 1 Gbit LAN, I might just go with a B450 board instead. Saving upwards of $50 here is considerable for us.
And what about future proff? They dont talk about rtx io in this video
Don't see much point upgrading from 1600 to 5600X, to be honest. Unless you are jumping to 5800X, the difference probably won't be immediately noticeable.
@@Derael the performance per watt improvement was already large enough from the 1600 to 3600. Unless you have a really budget gpu, the difference will most likely be quite big with the 5600x (of course, wait for third-party benchmarks)
@@colbeh Well, on the contrary, if you are playing at 1440p resolution, 1600 shouldn't bottleneck most GPUs, unless it's better than 2080 Ti. And even if it will bottleneck them, the difference won't be to the point when one is unplayable and the other is great, you will still be able to play any game at medium-high, just at lower FPS.
I mean, if you have the money to buy both 500$+ GPU and a 300$+ processor, go for it, but don't be surprised if the performance difference won't be groundbreaking.
This is reasonable for a new PC, but as an upgrade, it doesn't make much sense to me.
But well, I finished Witcher 3 on a 10 years old PC with Radeon 5850 GPU without any issues, so it might be just me who doesn't get that rush to upgrade every 2-3 years.
I did notice the difference after upgrading to 2600, but that was a huge generation leap, I'm not sure anything below 50% uplift is worth it, and I'm not quite sure that 5600 will provide 50% more FPS than 1600 at higher resolution.
Just buy a 3700x or 3900x on black friday
Still using my B450M, upgraded from Ryzen 5 3600 and GTX 970 to 5900X and RX 6600 XT.
Games are starting to not utilise it that much anymore,A lot of new games perform better on pcie gen 4 and some games stutter on pcie gen 3
@@lurkxz5426 for PCI 3 with 16x there is no known issue... the main issue is the Pci 3 8x or any prior Gen with only 8x or less prominent with the 4060 and the AMDs entry level GPU that also runs on PCIe4 x8...
Not that most people should care, but there's one thing you missed:
You CAN get b550 boards that split the 16x 4.0 slot into 2 x8 slots. I just got the vision d, which does exactly that. It doesn't make dual GPUs super viable by any means, but it better than an x4 3.0 or 2.0 link for your second device.
Especially since we have seen the 10900k (which has the equivalent of 4.0 x8 bandwidth) pushing the 3090 to the limits already, that means you can run a GPU in that top spot at x8, and another high speed device below at x8 as well and not worry.
That's not a hugely important use case, but information is good.
@@RUclipsTookMyNickname.WhyNot yeah I'm sure. I didn't find the description ambiguous but I'm also fairly used to reading mobo specs.
Not all b550 boards do this, for sure. This is a fairly high end quasi-workstation board, so they paid to ensure signal integrity was good enough, and for the PCIe switches necessary to split the lanes up as needed.
But it is 2 4.0 x8 connections, not one 4.0 and one 3.0.
@@tarfeef_4268 do you have the vision d, how do you like it?
@@xXDESTINYMBXx just ordered it, but I can update this with testing if desired. Planning to stick a 5950x in there. Only gripe I have spec-wise is the lack of >1gbps ethernet (tho as someone who uses Linux and bsd I do appreciate the Intel NICs for better compatibility)
@@tarfeef_4268 yes please provide an update.
I think you can connect the two lan ports to get 2gbps somehow, but I might have misunderstood that.
@@xXDESTINYMBXx sure, I'll do that.
Btw that's a feature called NIC teaming but it's in software, so latency is a thing, and for me not worth it. I'd probably just have 1 spare or if I am running a VM I can have 1 connection for the VM and one for the host
I agree with what others have said about how valuable this channel is when making informed purchasing decisions.
If I'm looking to invest in new PC hardware, this is THE channel I watch FIRST... and then as a refresher, just before I pull the trigger and open my wallet. Absolutely indispensable.
I'd love to stick with my MSI B450 Tomahawk (non-max) but i remember reading that the bios update for Ryzen 3000 was so unstable and broken on this particular board that it kept me from upgrading to an R5 3600 (currently running a R5 2600). So fingers crossed it won't be the same fiasco this time... Really want that 5600x next year.
My 3600 works fine on my B450 Tomahawk
Perfect timing! I'm a B450 owner and I was curious about this. Thanks for the informative video
there is that one guy with a skinny b450 and a 3900x upgrading to the 5950x
Imagine that guys pc catches fire
@@mackenziebullied4900 why would it?
@@danielcraft15 cause an 80 dollar b450 board ain't gonna have a good enough vrm for a 16 core only the better b450s can do that
@METhOdhowtoKilLnoObS asrock boards do have a thermal limit. The older ones didn't. Modern vrms can run at up to 100-120c, which Isn't good by any means, but they will probably die before they burn. If the vrm exceeds a certain thermal threshold It will just shut down, unless you disabled over-temp protection in which case you have the smallest brain in your city for sure.
@fx 1988 3600 is a super efficient chip especially if you put like 1.24ish v vcore itl draw like 60 watts
this video made me choose B450 last week. i had a B350 with 1800x . i upgraded everything except the cpu . and got a B450 board ; because i got a better board (on discount) the cpu clocks higher and the ram is stable on higher speed . and i'm ready for ryzen 5000. pci-e 4 is something i don't need. because i saved on that part of the pc . i got a 3070ti. built it in a lian li lancool 2 mesh and mounted 10 fans . 2 on the dark rock 4 cpu cooler . and 8 corsair rgb strips . cable managed like a semi pro build .
I bought myself X570 aorus master a week ago and im waiting for 5900X to get my hands on, but i gotta make sure that its working just fine.
So my question is, when i want to use that new zen 3 cpu on my mobo, can i actually like use usb to inject some sorta new bios into it so when i put my cpu its going to run fine? Just asking cuz im not a pc wizard
I'm running an old ASUS B450F Gaming, updated the Bios and happily running with a Ryzen 9 5900X, Asus 6800XT and got 18040 in 3D Mark. Happy Chappy :)
How's gaming performance
@@liquidsunshine697 Blazing fast, only thing that Taxes it is Microsoft Flight Sim at 1440 Ultra. The CPU runs fine with a noctua nh-u12s, Auto overclocks to 4.7ghz in its AMD software and the GPU Auto overclocks to 2.4ghz I'm sure. I do however have a Corsair RM850x powering it all. It Genuinely runs like a dream.
@@CharlySayz wow nice! I'm going from 2700x to 5600x paired with 5700xt. I just got the Noctua nh-u12s se I'm stoked. I have b450 and seems only difference is 2.5gbs port and PCIe 4.0 which isn't needed at all. Glad your setup works well!
@@liquidsunshine697 Yeh, nearly upgraded my board as well then realised its pointless for what I need it for. Not like I'm aiming to do big bios overclocks or stress anything lol. It will def be quite a few years before I next upgrade :)
@@CharlySayz yes! I might upgrade to Zen 4 a year after release. If I can help myself :D
Did Jensen lend you all those spatulas? Or was it the other way around?
last year i've upgraded from i4770k to ryzen 7 3700x. Out of researching for each component nothing took me longer to find MOBO that I wont have to complain about - extremely exhausting research for couple days as wanted to have value and features that I would use - didnt want to buy things that are expensive and fancy. Bough b450 tomahawk max and running 5800x on it today :) no issues with the mobo so far and its been well over a year.
i dont even know why im watching this video, i own a X570 Board, so this is basically irrelevant info for me, still worth watching tho, just a nice video lol
Same, but their videos are always worth the time.
May I ask you which CPU and GPU you are using with that motherboard?
I got a ryzen 5900 on a b450 running good
There are plans for decompressing textures and other resources directly on graphics cards, so PCIe 4.0 might be useful for some future GPUs.
Some people aren't planning on upgrading their CPUs/GPUs every two years, so that still might come in handy for them.
I plan to keep my x570 next 6 to 8 years. So yeah... Definitely worth in long range!
PCIe4 requires actual changes in the motherboard design. It's not just CPU that enables it. Some B450 mobos might be designed so that it enables support for PCIe4 but not all.
Beef Eye Fifty is probably the better choice from what I personally understand.
for anyone wondering: i can't recommend to upgrade to a 5900x on a b450 platform (msi tomahawk to be specific). only way to get the system stable is to set your ram to max 2133.
Wow, good to know!!
In Perth’s **PLE Computers** , the B450 MSI Tomahawk is AUD$209 and the B550 Aorus pro AC is only AUD$259. That’s a steal for the B550 right? The B550 is only AUD$50 more
the B550 Aorus pro AC no doubt is clearly the better choice and also a better board hands down, I would know, I have both :D
@@MrNova39X weird flex but ok
I don't think that's a steal, since Tomahawk is usually overpriced. Check if B450 Mortar Max or B450 A-Pro is available in your country, they are basically the same as Tomahawk, but cheaper.
And unless you are going to upgrade to 12+ core CPU, there is no reason to buy such an expesnive board, 60-80 USD board such as B450M Pro-VDH Max will work perfectly well in your PC. Another decent options are Gigabyte DS3H and S2H (if I remember models correctly).
@@Keplxr what do you mean?
My B450 Asus Strix gaming-F also had PCIe 4.0 support early on (in fact it was enabled by default) And it was a disaster!
The 5700XT wouldn't work properly at all. once i turned it from auto to PCIe 3.0 the card works perfectly fine (and basically haven't had any problems since).
There is clearly a bit more to PCIe 4.0 support then just that it comes from the CPU. the traces also need to be sufficient quality to allow for the higher frequencies usesd or something like that.
Going to hold onto my X470 until some generations pass by. We need to see more than marginal gains from modern chipset features before I'm convinced.
Honestly the B550-A PRO is a great value for money, This budget beast could even give pricier boards a run for its money
My only concern with my B450 and 3600 is that I might miss out on some performance when/if I upgrade to Big Navi. I guess it's probably not worth upgrading everything just for a little more gpu performance, but we'll see.
thanks, I have just built a b450 max + r3900x (stock fan) + gtx1060 6g (overclocked) build for 4k video editing, it works a charm and i no longer use proxies and can edit on full resolution no problem. I have not built a pc for 10 years and have been out of the loop so did not know that a 550 boards would have been more future proof, but what the hell, by the time I upgrade the 550 chipset will be old news anyways. My rig cost around £700 to build and i'm over the moon with performance.
Come on Steve... That PCI-E 4.0 comment wasnt accurate. I'm a subscriber to the channel for a year now, and I have great respect for your content. Yes PCI-E Xgen is enabled by the CPU but the board has to fulfill and meet certain standards (for traces and EMI) to run PCI-E4.0 that many B450 dont.
I upgraded to B550 for WiFi6. Didn't plan on upgrading the CPU, but while I had it disassembled I kept convincing myself to buy more and more parts.
First a PCIe 4.0 NVME and then a 5900X.
Then I was like well my case sucks so I might as well buy one of those too.
Upside is I now had most of the parts to build that NAS I've been wanting for so long. So I bought a power supply, a dual port NIC, a RX550, and now I guess I'm on the hunt for a bunch of huge hard drives to throw in an UnRAID box.
Feel robbed now, after buying my Aorus Elite X570 with 1GbE LAN at beginning of this year, as the cheaper Aorus Elite B550 comes with 2.5GbE LAN..
its been over 9 months now so
Don't feel robbed. The x570 Chipset itself is better. You have a board that will be supported longer than the b550 chipset. Considering its higher end
The biggest robbery IMO is that most B550 boards have front USB-C support, while most X570 boards don’t.
@@om95kboy The b550 and x570 are the same generation of boards with the same socket. They will be supported for the same amount of time. Support duration is not something that matters here.
At least you have more PCIe4.0 (if it matters) and a front 10Gbps USB-C header.
Thank you so much for this video. Cleared up my mind about upgrading. I'll stick to what I have and wait for the Jan 2021 bios, and then get a nice new shiny Zen 3 cpu
I was doing an upgrade with Ryzen 5000-series in mind and had no plan to replace it in next 2-3 years, so I went for Aorus B550 Pro AC and took R3 3100 for temporary usage until 5500/5600 comes to the local shops and OC the snot out of it. I had H81 board with 4690 in it before that.
You cannot “OC the snot out of” Ryzen though.
@@gftyuibm have the same board, 0 issues, all works, one of the most solid boards I ever had
Ryzens oc is memory overclocking includojg subtimings. Buy a good kit of memory (crucial ballistix) if you actually want performance gains rather than a waste of power and more heat output.
@@gftyuibm avoid newest BIOS. I went from F1 to F10 and started to have OC stability issues and if there was no load on GPU, the whole computer stuttered after every 15-20s or so. downgraded to F2 version and all is golden. temps are fine, my R3 3100 (which is low-end, but fits fine for time being) is happy at 4.4GHz.
@@aliancemd if it goes to or past the advertised turbo clock, it's already great. in my case, 3.9 advertised, runs 4.4. lots of luck included with the silicon lottery, as I had back in the days i5 2500k that was lapped and was 24/7 nicely at 5.1GHz. good old times
Most B450 have only one M2 NVMe conector, and most B550 have 2 x M2 NVMe, one suported by CPU ( PCIe 4 for ryzen 5xxx non G - 5600G and 5700G only PCIe 3) and one by chipset ( PCIe 3). This is a big diference if you want a second M2 SSD (without using some odd adaptor from PCIe slot).
I can't be bothered keep upgrading the pc every year its just a waste of money plus we all haven't got the money to upgrade all the time I have a 2700x and x470-f motherboard and a 590 sapphire GPU and 32 gig of ddr4 3000 memory and I won't be upgrading anytime soon with how much all that cost me a year ago I just game and mess about with VMs which bearly get powered up I have no slow downs it is soild performance
The 2700x is still a great CPU of course, but the IPC is much lower than Zen 2 and that's going to hurt it in gaming because of the Zen 2 cores in the new consoles.
I'll keep using my 3600x this year, and will upgrade to a 5800 when those start being sold used or go on special on black friday in a year or two
If you already have a B450 board, no need to upgrade unless you really need other features.
If you're building from scratch, go for a B550 board unless the CPU you're buying isn't supported (Ryzen 1000, 2000, APUs).
That's my opinion about this.
Good information, thank you Hardware Unboxed!
I am curious though as to why discussions of 400-series boards invariably involve the B450, with almost nothing about X470 boards. A comparison of X470 vs. B550 might be useful (not so much B570 because of cost!).
Bought a B550 simply because I liked the layout of the IO over all B450 boards.
funny, did the same thing for the exact same reason :)
6:13 "future-proofing" in tech has always been silly.
It's still always better to aim for the future, rather than just go with the cheapest. for Mobo it's always better to spend the money needed for it than to cheap out.
I have and always will have its place to "future-proof"
If you expect you PC to last many years, going with cheap parts that is already a few years when you buy it is not the best choice.
Sure a 10900k/5950x with a 3090 will loose alot more value than something like a 5600x/3070 setup that is still likely to be "mid tier" in a few years
@@urlond9371 One thing is to cheap out, another one is value, another one is the best of the best, another one is to pay for features you won't use because they have no use, even with a 3090.
@@ssu7653 I think you are missing the point. If you go for a 10900k/5950x with a 3090, as you said, it's not because you care about "future-proofing", it's because you want the best of the best, period. Next year, you'll sell the 3090, and buy the 4100. Like the same way people were panic-selling their 2080ti to get a 3080.
@@amaurytoloza1511 Bouth yes and no, if you want the best system in 5 years that is never the one thats already mid/lower tier today :P
There ARE people that do or have done this in the past, not saying its a smart choice but it happens.
Same with the people buying a "barely good enough" PC today expecting it to last 10 years, stupid choice.
I spent so far $800 to get ready for the RTX 30:
R5 3600, x570 Tomahawk WiFi, 32 GB Trident 3600, 1TB Intel Mv.2 SDD, couple of old SSDs, 850W BeQuiet! Power Zone in an old Cosmos II ultra tower case.
Zen3 is planned only for fall 2021.
Are you trying to tell me that I will have to upgrade from X370 to something more capable? But I am a gamer man... All I need is to keep up with graphics cards!
Love the spatulas on the shelf. Very subtle addition to that 3000 series card. Glad you're following nvidia's guidance and properly storing your card by spatulas.
When i was new to the channel
Me : always forgotten the channel name
My mind with youtube captions : "harvard unboxed"
Harvard on Box sounds like the name of a neighborhood in London 😂
I have the Fatal1ty B450 Gaming K4 from Asrock, next stop for me is AM5. No point in investing more in the MOBO and CPU for now.
Stuck with my B350 motherboard 😢
Got the same (B350) - bought it with the Ryzen 5 1600, soon after ryzen launched. I will probably upgrade to 3600 or 3700x after 5000 launch, those zen 2 processor should be even cheapper :)
@@SimonMedia666 thats a smart move, unfortunate now the 3600 went back up to 200 dollar price but hopefully it will go back down after zen 3 launch
@@SimonMedia666 they wont lol the new cpus are priced at +300$. Thats higher then the 3700x which is around 270-280$ so unless the 5600x goes down to ~270$ the zen 2 processors wont get cheaper coz theres no concurrent in this price range
@@zeronin4696 we will see. Maybe I will buy some used one...
Can just get yourself a good B450 board for 60-70$ worst case scenario. Or pay a bit more and grab Mortar Max, it's perfect.
PCI-E 4.0 support requires PCI-E connections and traces on the motherboard that are more robust and up to spec for the signal-to-noise requirements of PCI-E 4.0 and whatnot, and many users of 400-series chipset boards with the PCI-E 4.0-supporting BIOS started complaining about instability issues after they updated to that BIOS which auto-enabled it, so they later removed that support altogether in later BIOS revisions.
What about build quality and VRM quality on B550 vs B450? I could deduce that B550 are much more reliable than B450.
Picked up a B450 after getting the 5 5600g as a gift and its been working like a charm
10:17
Is the upcoming Summer in Australia *wArM* enough?
You mean WOOOOM
Your channel and Moore's Law is Dead are my two go-to channels for hardware. Another great video. Thanks for all the info.
More pcie lanes for mainstream!!! Been like 15 years and they still think 20-24 pcie lanes is enough.... Wtf intel & amd...
probably because for "mainstream", it's plenty. If you're actually NEEDING more lanes, you're not really in "mainstream" any more, you're an "enthusiast". Time to go ThreadRipper ;)
@@burnsyd17 I've been buying enthusiast for ever, but come on, Threadripper has 88 now, and x299 has 44. 40 on mainstream would be nice. Also, I have threadripper computer, an x299 gaming system, an x99 gaming system, three x79 machines, and an old x58 too. A few x370 machines too. I still think 40 pcie lanes should be mainstream by now.
@@LordMustangGT93 I'm not disagreeing, could be nice. fingers crossed for AM5...
The problem is, they will only be shipping out BIOS versions on B450 starting from January 2021. So if you want to upgrade, you have to wait at least until then...
Didn't they say boost algorithms between the boards are different, or was that marketing bs a while back that they forgot about
nothing a firmware update shouldnt be able to fix, are they going to is the question though.
Just purchased the Asus ROG Strix B550-F motherboard. The USD price was reduced to $174.99, from $189.99. Newegg has an instant $10 off coupon, and Asus is offering an additional $25 mail in rebate if purchased before November 30th, from either Newegg, or Microcenter.
I am still sitting on a b350 with a ryzen 7 2700x
X370 and R5 1600 OCed here
b350 and 3600x @4.3
@@miguelmorrobel4751 B450m and 3700x @4.3
a320 and r5 1400 :(
@@NikosApla do you use that for gaming?
Look at it this way: The A520 boards will support Zen 3 just fine, and they are barely upgraded A320s. If the board partners would permit, it would actually not be impossible for 300 series boards to support Zen 3.