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My son just turned 19, he’s a month away from taking his final for private pilot license. I’ve been sharing your videos and we discuss your content. I have no pilot experience. But your content is good for me in becoming more aware of how important character development for pilots(and all of life).
Ya Know what it sounds like to me was Robert was starting to suffer from Dementia / Oldtimers fade what ever you want to call it; It was his plane and he continued to make basic and serious mistakes. When you see this in others you HAVE TO take the Keys away. Living with people that are starting to go downhill you sometime don't catch this soon enough because its a slow process. I'm turning 66 next month and my pilot pals and I have a pact to pull the plug on our friends early, The impact on the families is awful..
I wondered the same thing: That he may have been experiencing some diminished mental capacity as the mistakes were very basic and inconsistent with his experience.
There are things you cam do to help the brain and guard against decline. Good diet with onega-3, finding mental challenges, good sleep and exercise. Cuz when ur demented you wont lwt ppl take the keys. My dad had said the dame thing, still drove after losing his license
Drive + hotel, or take the damn bus.. Husband, he had no business being in the plane, with a brand new pilot and an old man, maybe of unsound competence.. He left at least 1 child without parents!! Raw as..
I put away my headset and log book many years ago because I was getting up in age and I sometimes made errors on the ground. So, I decided that as much as I liked flying, I liked living more. All it takes is one foolish decision, and you become a statistic. R.I.P. to those that perished.
@@lyingcat9022 This is true, however, I flew solo most of the time. For me, there was a real understanding in my psyche that said, now that you are up, the only person that can bring you down safely, is you. One of the few activities that a person can do that each and every time, they have their life in their hands, alone.
11:35 “Poor communication is a sign that you’re losing situational awareness.” - so true. I’m not a pilot, but experienced this in radio communications in the military, both for myself and listening to others. Once you get stressed, exhausted, insecure you start making simple mistakes like mixing up coordinates or call signs. This is a sign that you need to take a deep breath and calm down, and maybe ask for assistance.
I would make call outs in games to my friends and they would just not hear me. I wonder if the brain just ignores your ears when your eyes get to much input?
@@fajile5109 a lot to do with it being 73 years old his hearing was probably going. He was spending more time on trying to understand what he was hearing, then flying the plane. In 1979 my polite license were pulled due to hearing loss in my left ear now both at 65. I still fly but with a license polite next to me.
You got that military mental illness thing going poor communication is a sign that you are not functioning well for the military. Situational awareness is not dependent on communication military function is dependent on communication. Hoover's a great example of this. He's always taking a cheap shot at the national transportation safety board as if they have anything in common with his hobby. I hear him say I guess I guess I guess all the time and then he says the national transportation safety board is too slow and its investigation because they function on conclusions from the evidence gathered instead of a guess to sell views on RUclips.
Flew with an old corporate pilot who died of old age in his nineties. He got there by saying: That's the plan or intent when referencing a company flight. Some of the company people did not like his "lack of commitment" to a trip". If pushed too hard, he would say "Delta is ready when you are". Even up to the time of takeoff and during the flight, he would not commit to a time schedule or destination. It was: That is where and when we intend to go subject to conditions.
Things can change quickly when your flying. Always best to keep re-thinking all the factors and select the best outcome for the situation at that time. No fog banks for me, either in a plane or driving a vehicle.
I'm not a pilot, but I like to watch your videos. The core of the lessons you give through them is suitable for many situations in life. Thanks for the video.
Years ago as a young student pilot I too got myself into a situation like this. On a solo cross country I found myself way too high on base leg because of the pattern the controller had me fly. I decided to slip the plane to lose altitude and flying an unstable approach. After the first bounce I remembered my instructor telling me days before to always fly the plane so I applied power and lowered the nose to gain airspeed. I made the flight back home and my instructor and I talked about what happened to cause the issue and it started with the unstable approach. That flight scared me but it also taught me a valuable lesson that I still use today. Always fly the plane.
Great post! I posted above that I don't have power experience but I did fly sailplanes in the 80's. Initially, I flew the club's easy to land 1-26 with maybe a 22 to 1 glide ratio and solid landing brakes/spoilers. I eventually bought a Std Libelle with a 40 to 1 glide ratio, and propensity to float from ground lift and no flaps. Since you couldn't be short, you had to approach with plenty of speed and altitude and slipping was in your arsenal.
@DrDeuteron an unstable approach is when you are not at the proper speed, centerline, altitude, course or aircraft configuration that you should be at any specific distance from the runway.
I had two instructors, the one that signed me off for my cross country solo had always taught me, if you bounce, no matter how small, go around. They were both at the airport when I returned. I bounced and went around. The airplane could land in 200ft, the runway was one mile long. The instructor that signed me off said great go around, the other asked why i didn't just land on the 5000ft of runway after the bounce. I said because if I bounce I go around and try again not try to recover a flawed approach ans landing.
@@DrDeuteron speed (horizontal and vertical) and trajectory, especialy on final. I never hesitate to do a go around when I'm not stabilized on short final or something goes wrong during the flare.
As it should. Private flights account for nearly all crashes, with a dozen a day worldwide. This type of stuff wouldn't be tolerated in commercial flight. You're more likely to die in an auto accident than flying every day commercial.
This like all the briefs are tough to hear. I am glad to be able to hear and review these conversations. Being able to recognize your limits and arming yourself with other peoples experience to draw upon is top tier
Not even that - her husband was at the back, why was it important for her to be the one texting? her husband could have been the one texting and updating her friends etc. I dont understand why she was obssessed on her being the one to text
@@fimmyk Hard to say, but as she respected her Dad as a pilot and had got her license to partly please him, she was clearly deferring to him. At the same time he was sounding like he might be losing his mental acuity. Tragic.
A LOT of people have no business trying to become pilots. I am one of them. My dad was a WWII Helldiver pilot and DFC recipient. I did not inherit his ability nor his desire to be a pilot. I admire great pilots and I have an interest in aviation however I do not particularly enjoy flying even as a passenger. Hoover’s commentary is the best on RUclips in my opinion.
Agree 100%. I took flying lessons many years ago when my children were still very young. I realized after a few lessons that I just wasn't detail oriented enough to continue. I quit and let others do my flying for me.
@JDCUSA I disagree with you. The only thing against you being a pilot is that you have no desire as you don’t enjoy flying. Recognising this attribute makes you suitable to be one. The level of ability required to be a pilot is very low, even for commercial flying. I was a pretty average pilot and all I ever did is fly in such a way that I didn’t spill my tea. Most of flying is nothing to do with the actual process of pulling levers, twiddling knobs and pressing buttons. It’s all about putting your brain ahead of the aircraft and keeping well away from the corners in the sky.
Hoover. I wonder how many pilots lives you’re saving with these videos? It’s like a weekly training exercise and gathering of knowledge. Keep up the amazing work. Best wishes from Scotland 🏴
Probably not as many as you hope. Most of these debriefs are about situations that pilots should have known better. Chiefly, if you are vfr and you see bad weather ahead, then turn back. But no. They always fly right into it.
Im a student pilot myself, after watching this i could just see the get-there-itis issues, and while she did seem more competent she had alot more to learn before flying somewhere with a deadline. The way my instructor explained it to me is “if you arent sure if weather will get better the day before, and your not IFR rated, dont risk it because while you may think you can divert with enough fuel, go around clouds, your going to be thinking of your appointment and thatll put you in danger” To me (from the position of hindsight and as a studdnt) if i had to keep telling my dad the runway heading 3 times and he was losing track of where the runway was, i personally would have taken over. Again this is easy to say not being in the situation and only hearing about it but its still a huge tragedy
“Taking over” is easy to say as an outside observer. She was a new pilot with not much more experience than you have now. She was also flying a new type of airplane for her. This airplane was also both high performance, as well as complex, both of which require endorsements, which it seems she did not have. It’s not a matter of her taking over command of the airplane, but that she should not have been flying it in the first place. He was flying from the right seat, which no matter how much experience you have in an airplane takes some time to get comfortable with. Add to that distractions in the cockpit and flying to an unfamiliar place without updated weather. He should have flown from the left seat, she should have sought proper instruction in the plane before taking the controls, and both should have minimized distractions.
Yeah, I've put off travel for weather just driving, I can't imagine ignoring weather when you're a new pilot and not even IFR rated. Just zero reason to risk it, whether you care about your life or money, or both, you're risking too much.
Lots of things going on in this one. They probably had her in the left seat to get more experience. Not a bad idea, but much, much more wisely done on flights with no deadline and flights in familiar areas. Also, with a new airport, my protocol is to fly over it a thousand feet above the landing pattern to get a good view of the airport and then swing around to enter the pattern. As for flying with a family member that is a pilot and senior to you and has more experience, adds another dynamic. Once during a night landing with my father piloting, I had to almost yell to him several times that he was “high and hot” on final for him to finally abort. I think he was tired after a long day flying and just wanted to land ASAP and get home. As a new pilot, have the mind set of being prepared to identify these things that can distract you from flying the plane the safest way possible.
These videos are a great way to exercise your own decision making skills. I found myself actually talking to my iPad, “Hand the phone to your husband” “quit asking your dad and focus” “ GO AROUND!” Truth is it’s a lot easier to see these patterns when you’re sitting on the couch and not actually in the situation. I’m so sorry for the loss of these lives
Another major contributing factor was the fact that her dad was too old. Her dad was getting flustered and confused even with the simple things that come naturally to a pilot, and that resulted in them being killed. It's something that's so tragically obvious, but nobody wants to admit.
Especially in this case. She had to tell him the runway like 5 times in a row. That seems like he was actually way beyond the point where he should be flying. It is one thing if he misses it the first or second time but that many times is too much, his age and cognitive decline were majority factor here. She absolutely should have been on the controls, they would have had a much better chance.
I think you're flustered! Are you old enough to be flustered? Maybe it wasn't his age, probably was his race. So this antique dinosaur, was mansplaining? The problem was caused by his age not his race not his gender isn't there something left disability maybe?
Absolutely right. There's nothing wrong with getting old, but there is something wrong with them flying a plane. ATC has to retire at 55, because it's proven beyond that age, more and more mistakes happened.
@Oxnaf there's a difficulty here with you unfortunately their this man is an individual citizen of the United States so we don't just count off his age on his right to participate in things that he has earned. Your comment about the air traffic controller is just like every other kind of oppressive right-wing hate monger. What's your case for limiting the race and gender and age of people who are allowed to fly airplanes? It's probably just as ugly as the other argument you made and that's okay you got to live with you. Are there any disabled people allowed to be air traffic controllers? There seems to be an awful lot of people who reflect the Sun a great deal more than others in the air traffic controller game. So you need somebody who reflects a lot of light to fly an airplane because that's what kind of person is an air traffic controller? Of course we have you here a developmentally disabled person with the right to come on here. You do realize air traffic controllers are employees and they have rules about who they can fire that are inherently different than the rules about who can get a license to do something as a citizen?
@@Oxnaf Absolutely. Nothing wrong with aging but you have to recognise how it's affecting you. I gave up flying years ago and I have to admit that mental calcs like crosswind allowance, off-track etc. that I used to do in a heartbeat, I have to work at now. OMGosh, she was trying so hard to live up to her Dad but in the end that deference killed them all. Made me really sad.
You are doing the aviation industry a great service with this channel. I am no pilot (20 hours) But it would seem flying aircraft safely is all about preparation, being ahead of the aircraft and each segment of flight. Great Job Dude!
At the risk of pointing out the blatantly obvious, a pilot's mental energy should be focused solely on flying the plane safely. Worrying about meet ups at the airport while you're still in the air is extremely irresponsible.
It is not irresponsible: it is human. I’m a professional pilot: sometimes you need a lot of self discipline to keep you, while flying, “away” from your life
This story reminds me of when I was 18 yrs old and taking a long drive from Modesto, CA to the Point Loma Naval Base in San Diego, CA with 4 of my friends and my retired truck driver grandfather. Then in his 80s, he loved to drive my 1968 VW 19-window bus as it reminded him of driving a truck, and on that trip, he got it in his head that he would drive my friends and I the entire way. It was a quick turnaround, 9 hours each way, starting the on Friday around noon and last 5 hours of drive home was a nightmare. It was a dark HWY (5 - CA) it was storming, my grandfather was exhausted and having problems just keeping in his lane due to the high winds. Even finding the off-ramps to stop for gas was challenging for him. And then he started falling asleep every 15 minutes, freaking out my friends. They'd yell for me to drive, to which my grandfather would argue, "I'm fine! I've been driving since before you kids were born!" Had it been anyone else I would've forced them to stop, pulling the emergency brake and turning off the engine myself. But it was my grandfather......In this case I ended up waiting and demanding the keys from him while we were stopped at a gas station. He didn't speak to me for months, not even at Thanksgiving and Christmas that year, but we got home in one piece. I know this wasn't flying but the _family dynamic_ is the same. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, but it wasn't fair to endanger my friend's lives to spare his feelings. I can't imagine having the same situation happen while flying. Ugh.
I'd be willing to bet he was on medications. He was probably a good pilot and that's why she trusted him, not realizing he'd taken his medications that morning. It's not politically correct to say seniors taking medications shouldn't be driving or flying, but they shouldn't. I know from experience, I work with them, he sounded confused just like my clients get.
I am not nor ever have been a pilot. As a wilderness guide I am very interested in the root causes of accidents and how to avoid them. Your debriefs continue to be amazing and fundamental analyses of what went wrong. Hubris, power dynamics, who's in charge, get there-itis are really hard to avoid! Thanks for the excellent, sensitive and humble content.
I got into a PIO as a student pilot on my first cross country, trying to land at the first airport. I had no idea what was happening, or why. Luckily my instinct was to get back into the air. I powered up, bounced one time in the desert parallel to the runway and got airborne. Pure luck I didn't damage the airplane or worse. This was before the internet. Before Hoover and others, teaching us things like this. I am guessing you have already saved some lives doing these videos. Thank you for doing these.
I was young just out of school working my first job for a company owned by a pilot. We would fly everywhere for business. I recall on many occasions coming close to treetops and low clouds just before landing and the relief on my bosses face whenever we landed safely. I was too young and naive to understand the danger but decades later I realize that these sort of accidents don't happen on the first risky attempt. Instead, there were probably 10 other questionable flights that were barely survived that probably influenced the tragedy of a fatal flight.
Before the internet and RUclips videoes there were books like "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche, or magazines like "Flying" with articles such as "I Learned About Flying From That," and articles and books by one of the editors, Richard Collins. Those three sources helped me understand a lot of things my instructors weren't getting through to me on, or I was too dense to understand.
I've been flying for 22 years as a private pilot. So many people I talk to never practice go-arounds. For many years I flew with my daughter. She has her ATP as well as being a CFI. Whenever we flew, even though I have more years flying and am her Dad, I always deferred to her decision making. If she said "Dad, go-around", we did. Neither of us ever said, "No, I got this".
Excellent and very edifying. Thank you, Hoover! My wife and I are not pilots, but love aircraft, and visit our local private airport 15 minutes from us several times a week, just to watch the student pilots. Your videos are life lessons.
Yep, it appears that most of her communication with her father was in a tentative manner, not as it should have been with her as PIC. And his unspoken attitude of, "Well she's just my little girl; surely I should be the one to get us down safely." instead of being such a hard head and letting his daughter fly the plane! I cannot imagine the heartbreak of her friends that she was texting. Absolutely no doubt that they would have been totally understanding of any necessary change in plans. They certainly would have rather had her with them later, and alive!
I really appreciate this channel. I'm not a pilot...yet. I have been a lifelong aviation enthusiast, and at 61, I hope to start flight training soon. However, I want to be the safest pilot possible or not at all. What I find most interesting is the hours the old guy had yet how susceptible we all can be to little mistakes that can be ones undoing.
I like the swiss cheese model diagram. I am 62 and when i was a vfr pilot in the 90's i was aware of the "cone model" for aviation accidents. When you begin planning a flight you basically enter the wide part of the cone where you have the option to make many flight decisions, but if you begin making poor decisions the cone narrows as your decision making becomes limited due to previous bad decisions, and if you continue making poor decisions you enter the narrowest part of the cone that ends in a point when all of your options are exhausted and you crash. Honestly, when i was a pilot i thought i was a pretty good pilot, but actually i should be dead from a few different scenarios during my time as pilot. Some are born pilots, i am not one of them and i would never be a pilot again. I love Hoover's videos however and never miss one
This one was hard to get through, but so important to show us how this could have happened, thank you Hoover for all of your hard work for more great information on your debriefs.
Thanks Hoover. There were many situational awareness and management issues we can learn from this. We are military and have trained for when the tactical situation becomes fluid, but the school solution is to demand normalcy and stabilization. It is hard to determine how to best help less experienced pilots. It is easier to evaluate comfort and currency and competence for IMC hand flying. There are so many variables where pitch, yaw, and roll are not limited and ATC is not there and airspeed, altitude, and procedural track are not set in stone and protected. Flying physically is so much easier than driving or operating equipment, but the fluidity of the tactical situation is so much greater. I know altitude is time and safety, but I lived low in small airplanes my entire career. Low altitude orientation VFR is zoom reserve airspeed except for a slow approach and stay in contact with the earth. Too high and too fast to make either a runway or a survivable field just doesn't compute for me.
Wow! That was one subject matter expert addressing another with the greatest economy of precise terminology. It showcases, a) the degree of technical complexity that attaches to competently flying, and b) Hoover’s ability to translate that technical complexity into understandable explanations for the layman.
Thank you again Hoover for your analysis. Though each story is someone's profound tragedy, they deliver incredibly useful information for future pilots. We can never prevent tragedy as that's seems to be the nature of reality, we can however take notice of what structures lead to accidents and learn from it to limit future risk as well as possible. Any current and aspiring pilot would do well to think about these accidents, reflect about how they relate to their own flying and literally take care.
Now i wanna know what is ao disorienting about it. Are the cockpits that asymmetrical? With no lanes or traffic rules idk what it would be really. Is it just muscle memory?
@@jhoughjr1 flying relies so much on sight picture , landings and takeoffs feel very different the other side. Plus now your throttle hand is the left hand. Imagine a car where you get in the opposite side you are used to but ALSO the brake and throttle pedals are reversed so you have to learn to accelerate with your left foot and brake with your right. Takes practice
@@jhoughjr1 It is a lot of muscle memory. How much your hand moves when you get pushed by with wind.... and so forth. In the left... you fly with your left hand, and throttle/prop/mix with your right. in the right seat, it's reversed. so your "Feel" goes away. Also... when landing, and fighting a little cross wind... you get a feel of what is "Straight". In the right seat, that "Feel" isn't the same. And finally... yes... the cockpit is asymmetric in a small aircraft. So you are now searching for the info you need, and your flight instruments are at an angle, and may not read the same. My first few landings from the right was BAD.
@@aaronbrown6266the father said, “let me have it," meaning land the plane. They both knew he was PIC at that point. Hours clearly were irrelevant considering his fatal landing. I agree it was overall cluster of both pilots. In boat handling, I made the mistake of agreeing to give my helm to the older male, more experienced friend when he announced he wanted it for docking in weather. He didn’t ask or confer, he told me, just like this dad. I later realized I was the better prepared and should have said no but as a female that option was never modeled for me and never crossed my mind. Now I know better. All women need to learn this. It’s still way too common.
These are incredibly well done an informative . I have been a frequent passenger on the same plane. Watching these debriefs makes me realize how easily things can wrong . I’m not sure I would fly general aviation again
Absolutely fantastic debrief, as for usual. I’m consistently astounded that the NTSB doesn’t protocolize CRM factors into their reports. Hoover has a laser pointer aimed at what is fundamentally missing. Well done, sir.
This is a tragic and heartbreaking story. I will never fly in a private plan again due to the horrific, life threatening, experience of flying as a passenger through hail, thunder and lightening and a six-seater plane that was falling apart.
It look to me the old man didn't fly his airplane very often. This is the same pattern with many older Bonanza owners. They had many hours on lower performance Cessna and such and when they got older, they could afford to own Bonanza. Yet they rarely practice flying their birds. At my field, there are a lot of fast Bonanza, Mooney, and Cirrus. Yet, you don't often see them flying, or even flying in the pattern. When they fly, they enter the pattern very fast, turning base leg fast and somehow made it to landing. On the descend from cruise, they chop the power on the downwind instead of slowing down to pattern speed before getting into the pattern, they got behind because the airplanes were still too fast to land.
I’ve learned from watching your videos and other videos like yours, that the worse thing to do as a pilot, is making your schedule of events, the priority. Instead of flying yourself and your passengers safely to the destination. Another death, proving the statistics correctly.
"steep authority gradient" in the cockpit. Adding that to my vocabulary. Thank you, Hoover, for another excellent debrief. IMHO (I am not a pilot), the cause of the accident was not the steep angle of attack and stall, but everything that led up to and caused that final fatal factor. Including the steep authority gradient. And, I will never understand why pilots schedule or time events on the assumption that the flight will proceed as smoothly as a drive in the car to the corner drugstore.
On certain levels yeah, but I think the bigger factor was the power dynamic in the cockpit. Neither pilot was behaving as PIC. She was deferring to her father, even though she was in the left seat. He was clearly having some sort of cognitive issues happening and shouldn't have been flying. He was making several poor decisions and she was not forcefully pushing back on them even though she clearly knew they were not good decisions. This combined with the distractions of texting her friend, are the swiss cheese holes that led to the crash.
@@rijlqanturis625yeah, it's a classic case where he's supposed to be the more experienced pilot so she isn't taking charge when he's incapacitated and unable to properly manage the flight. Her being distracted while flying is bad but the other factor is what directly caused the crash.
Sad but also avoidable. Zero pre-flight plan and were just "winging it" as they went including landing speeds. I don't have a single minute of power time but did fly sailplanes in my earlier days and a pre-flight was a must. I still remember comments from one of the World's most famous glider pilots about a Std Austria glider with a V-shape tail that showed up at the club. He said it was an accident waiting to happen. And that particular glider crashed months later.
Better to arrive late than dead. I don't get why she was so worried about her friends meeting them at the airport. It was only 40 minutes, they could have waited to land and then tell them to pick them up. 3 dead and an orphaned baby because of impatience. Its crazy!
Tragic. Learned a new term, 'steep authority gradient'...yeah we often arent at our best when family watching. Maybe insist on a written checklist/plan when distractions possible. Food for thought. Thx !
If you are not an investigative journalist you are something very much like it my friend. These videos are so thoroughly done and researched. You could literally call yourself a journalist
I feel like this entire incident could have been avoided by briefing the flight, briefing the weather and briefing responsibilities. I have no idea why GA pilots never seem to do this... It costs nothing to go into a flight with a plan, a backup and an understanding of what you're getting into. On an aside; my personal minimum for GA x-country is 2 days on either end. If I can't leave 2 days early or arrive 2 days late, then I don't go! This prevents me from talking myself into making a bad decision. I also verbally brief each flight from block to block, even if I am the only one in the aircraft. I leave nothing to chance.
I'm a fairly new pilot with my own video channel. On my flights, I keep hand written notes on frequencies, runways, etc. I also do extensive weather briefings before each flight. I never would have taken off for this flight with such low ceilings. Also, once in the pattern, airspeeds are critical. Any bouncing on landing should immediately result in a go around. Incredible shame that these people died.
I'm no pilot but have had high risk jobs ...and survived. If I were you I'd binge watch this channel and the Blancolirio channel by Juan Browne which are both relevant to small aircraft. Any idiot can crash a airworthy airplane?
I’m a pilot and I say it depends on the bounce. If it’s a small bounce it can be corrected without PIO and the plane landed safely. If it’s a big one then yes, go around.
One red flag for me is that the father always flew an unusually high airspeed in the pattern and on final. I fly a TR182 and for my aircraft I'm always higher than usual on final because with full flaps my aircraft will do a really steep descent--but I fly at 60-65kn on final. If I'm too fast it's going to float further down the runway. I'd gotten checked out years ago in a 1959 Model 35 V tailed Bonanza. I only had several hours in it and didn't end up renting because I didn't realize that the flight school would not let anyone file IFR in that aircraft due to insurance stipulations. What I distinctly remember of this model (and some other aircraft like Mooney) is that they are so aerodynamically clean that you've got to nail the speed numbers or you'll float down the runway. They appeared to be in VFR conditions, way too high and way too fast. I suspect he drove it down resulting in severe porpoising. The V tail makes it way worse if sudden elevator changes are made as happened here. I remember that this aircraft had a high accident rate and was known as the "doctor killer". When I searched though, apparently most of the failures were inflight breakup due to pilots exceeding max airspeed. That wasn't the case here. I believe that the father's habit of coming in too fast on final contributed to his confidence that he could land safely. They were too high, too fast and should never have attempted to land with such an unstable approach. They could just have overflown the runway and re-entered the pattern for a second attempt at pattern altitude and proper airspeed. While they did initiate a go around, that was after several bounces and possibly one or more was severe enough to have had a prop strike, thereby limiting aircraft performance in the go around which ultimately resulted in a stall. It also could have simply been a lack of attention to airspeed during the climbout after initiating the go around. It appears that the father was disoriented for some reason. Maybe he was distracted with something else on his mind, or maybe it was health related. The reason for that we'll never know. God bless these people. It's all just a damned shame.
So, fly the plane safely 1st, then once you arrive safely, figure out the "plans" after touch down. Your best laid plans don't matter if you are dead... Sad, but cautionary tale.
Nope. Just shows that old adage that PERFECT practice makes perfect. You can do something wrong thousands of times and still get yourself offed in a stupid way. This guy had a combination of incompetence and ego and maybe cognitive decline.
I remember this one. The shitty thing is that Right outside of the valley Napa sets in is typically clear and there's three airports within 30 minutes drive it's just unfortunate
The dynamics of a family member in the cockpit can really be difficult. Pilot in command is an ethos that needs to be honored and maintained. my heart is broken as the father of two daughters hearing this story. It seemed like pilot in command/father/daughter was moving back-and-forth throughout the flight. That bonanza is an awful lot of plane for a less than 100 hour pilot. Obviously, he even struggled with not knowing the limits of that plane.
You know what we need, Hoover? A video for non-pilots about things to know/ what questions to ask before even stepping onto a private plane. How do I know I’m with a skilled pilot? What questions do I ask him/her to discern if they are a capable pilot?
First non-pilot thoughts: . That poor baby 😢 . That poor friend who upon hearing the news was probably yelling into the sky, I wouldn't have been mad! why did you keep going? You would be alive. . Family dynamics remain, no matter how old we get. . HOOVER: All of the things you could tell and yet NTSB didn't catch them. They must never look at social media or ownership records🤷🏻♀️. The fact that you caught the steering column / keying mic combination, and they didn't shows me if I were ever in a crash, I would want you to do the investigation. Thank you Hoover for all you do. I've been watching you from the beginning 👍🏼
Caving while scuba diving! I'll never understand (willingly) entering a situation with little to no options for an alive outcome. There are pilots that can fly me in a small plane, and caves to explore with a level of safety. As Dirty Harry said "A man's got to know his limitations".
Very informative debrief. I remember this accident. I have a home in Angwin and have flown once from that airport. If you know the area at all, you know that there is a zero percent chance that KAPC and KSTS are good proxies for the WX in Angwin. It’s a completely different microclimate as they observed when they arrived. Interesting point is that for all of the failures in weather planning, ride coordination, etc., get-there-itis wasn’t the cause of this tragedy. It was the Macho hazardous attitude. There was simply no need to land on the first attempt. In fact, given he was so high when he identified the field, from the get-go he could have planned for a low approach (committing to the fact that you are not gonna land on first pass even if everything looks OK) in order to smoothly get down to TPA and orient himself to the runway. He could then decide if he wanted to make another lap and land. Any mountain flying course stresses this option. I’ll also note that this pilot flew a high performance, complex airplane, had 2200 hours and never got an instrument rating. Maybe he thought he didn’t really need it.
@ I wondered that too. Evidently the data card in the GoPro camera must have recovered and readable. That plus ATC tape for some of the radio comms. That’s my guess.
Angwin is tricky on a good day.. and looking at weather at sonoma is no help as you noted Angwin is normally above the marine layer . the other alternative airport when you have Marine layers in that neck of the woods is Lampson 30 miles north.. No Marine layer there.. And the Pope valley aiport even though private is usually clear as well.. going to Napa ( spent most of my life there and learned to fly there.. ) Just wait till the afternoon marine layer is gone etc etc.. High and hot should have been a go around without even trying to land on that shorter tricker runway.
I haven't set foot on a plane since 2013 and will never fly again. Prior to that it has been my favorite thing to do with millions of miles of air travel including flying lessons for me and my kids. Then my son became an ATC-S, military first, then FAA. I hope I never need a medevac either. I'm happy to be a spectator at the air shows and visit all the hangars/ museums every chance I get (many road trips!) 😊 Much gratitude for all US military aviators!!! Y'all are a special breed! 💪🇺🇸 much respect
The dad probably only flew on severe nice days. She cornered him into a stressful situation he's never been in by repeatedly telling him important people were waiting on his decision in questionable weather. She made very sure to constantly remind him of her time constraints. He was so stressed he had no clue where he was spacially. He wanted to be on the ground so badly, he didn't care what speed and configuration he was. Just didn't care.
from what i've learned from watching alot of these type of videos. the pre flight plan is the most crucial step! the fact they choose to fly in areas that did not have good weather while lacking the proper equipment it was the catalyst and all the small errors started cascading into big problems like the classic swiss cheese model. i had knots as soon as she asked her dad what the landing speed was, if this was suppose to be a teachable moment he should have told her to look at the reference manual to get a baseline not give his own "fast and loose" approach he's been doing. also this is why i would never get on a "casual, fun ride" with a new pilot, just imagine you're chilling up there and they are over here going "how am i suppose to land again?"
I wonder if anyone investigated Robert's mental condition. For someone with his level of experience he seemed terribly unfocused, forgetful and/or confused. If Shauna would have remained the pilot the entire time this sad tragedy may well not have happened. Robert should have remained in a support role and never taken the controls. Hoover, thanks again for another in-depth debrief that is far more valuable than the NTSB report. Details like this better explain how and why these accidents happen, and i truly believe that your debriefs are saving lives.
Sad ending to a lovely couple and father. It’s always tough for kids, no matter how old will look to parents for support and advice. My own daughter likes flying and if and when she takes lessons it will not be with me. RIP and thank you Hoover for a well prepared, presented and emotionally sensitive video.
My dad was airline pilot. He never showed any wish for me to become pilot too, although i loved planes from early age as opposed to my brother who couldn't be more indifferent.
Wanted to be a pilot since I was a little more than a toddler. I think it was the image of the profession that attracted me and not the technology and skills. Eventually I at 19 years old I signed up to a PPL course, all paid for by the Bank of Mom and Dad. Well cut a long story short it didn't take me long to realise that I was never going to be pilot material. Reason? I was scared of heights!! Anyway, I studied hard and tried to put in as many solo hours as I could until I passed the theory tests and the practical. Then at the princely amount of 94 flying hours, I stepped out of the aircraft and gave up the dream because with every passing hour, I knew that one day I would kill either myself or someone else.
NTSB needs to correct obvious errors in the report (flight time) and release all documents to investigations. The more withholdings/gaps in the report, the less credible the results. Their reports have become increasing useless to illuminate the chain of contributing factors from which we can learn. Thanks for digging deeper.
I have friends that from the minute they get out of bed to the time they go to sleep at night they wont let the cell phone off their hands for one minute, they go to the bathroom with the cell in their pant´s pocket, seat down to eat and the damm cell is next to the glass of water. This makes me sick, sorry. This lady (God bless her) is still "learning the ropes " of flying but wont let the cell go and texting to her friends. Driving a car and texting is dangerous, imagine a plane !!!
Well, that was depressing. Some 73-year olds are not all 73-year olds. He can't even remain clear on how to key the mike and he's the pilot in command. Oooh boy.
Unfortunately, when you get to your 70s your situational awareness is not as sharp as years earlier. Looking at him, I can see he's not in great shape and this I'm afraid can reflect neurologically. A shame that the daughter didn't feel she could be more strident, but it's her husband that I feel really sorry for, as he had no opportunity to take charge of the situation. At best he pointed out where the airfield was when clearly the two pilots were having situational awareness difficulties. The daughters' texting and arrival concerns clearly impacted her focus. When I did my PPL(H) some 20+ years ago here in the UK, it was drummed in to me never to have my phone switched on and when I subsequently passed and flew solo, I never ever used my phone until I'd exited the aircraft.
I just dont understand the NTSB 's inabilitie to do a complete and thorough investigation as if as long as they're good then the investigation is done? Poor little baby now an orphan.
So when she said she wanted to get more experience before flying with family that’s EXACTLY what she needed. Dad seemed to have lost some ability it’s immediately clear she needed to take control back over for the landing but I can imagine why she didn’t speak up more. So sad, rip to all.
Okay. I'm a 160 hour pilot. Things I wouldn't consider doing. 1. Flying a six seat, six cylinder, high performance airplane, 2. long distance, 3. in crappy weather, 4. with family members. All are WAY too scary for me. The problem is that I might have thought it okay to do if I was a 50 hour pilot. She was WAY in over her head. The more I fly the scarier it gets. I'm working on mastering the C150. And don't bark that it was the CFI's responsibility to warn her. He probably did but she was a grown-up. Her Dad's airplane? To him, this trip would be NBD so that's probably what sucked her in to this black hole. She trusted him and didn't know the danger.
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As an English medic and heli pilot I always tell people "better to be late in THIS world than EARLY in the next"
Good one, don't mind if I use it myself.
fyi there's no 'next'.
@@papagen00… Someday you will be certain of this statement, one way or another
Some sound advice, no matter what you're doing.
❤❤❤
My son just turned 19, he’s a month away from taking his final for private pilot license. I’ve been sharing your videos and we discuss your content. I have no pilot experience. But your content is good for me in becoming more aware of how important character development for pilots(and all of life).
Ya Know what it sounds like to me was Robert was starting to suffer from Dementia / Oldtimers fade what ever you want to call it; It was his plane and he continued to make basic and serious mistakes.
When you see this in others you HAVE TO take the Keys away.
Living with people that are starting to go downhill you sometime don't catch this soon enough because its a slow process.
I'm turning 66 next month and my pilot pals and I have a pact to pull the plug on our friends early, The impact on the families is awful..
I wondered the same thing: That he may have been experiencing some diminished mental capacity as the mistakes were very basic and inconsistent with his experience.
I was thinking the same thing, sounds like some dementia issues.
Yep. 73 is too old to take ppls lives into your hands.
There are things you cam do to help the brain and guard against decline.
Good diet with onega-3, finding mental challenges, good sleep and exercise.
Cuz when ur demented you wont lwt ppl take the keys.
My dad had said the dame thing, still drove after losing his license
Drive + hotel, or take the damn bus.. Husband, he had no business being in the plane, with a brand new pilot and an old man, maybe of unsound competence.. He left at least 1 child without parents!! Raw as..
I put away my headset and log book many years ago because I was getting up in age and I sometimes made errors on the ground. So, I decided that as much as I liked flying, I liked living more. All it takes is one foolish decision, and you become a statistic. R.I.P. to those that perished.
And no reason why you can’t go up with an experienced CFI to be PIC and still get your hands on the controls :)
And you can always go flying with somebody else it's not like you have to stop. Just find somebody else to be pilot in command.
@@lyingcat9022 This is true, however, I flew solo most of the time. For me, there was a real understanding in my psyche that said, now that you are up, the only person that can bring you down safely, is you. One of the few activities that a person can do that each and every time, they have their life in their hands, alone.
Yep. It’s better to be on the ground wishing you were flying.
@@brianmcg321 then flying, wishing you were on the ground. 😉
11:35 “Poor communication is a sign that you’re losing situational awareness.” - so true. I’m not a pilot, but experienced this in radio communications in the military, both for myself and listening to others. Once you get stressed, exhausted, insecure you start making simple mistakes like mixing up coordinates or call signs. This is a sign that you need to take a deep breath and calm down, and maybe ask for assistance.
Good point and why someone could call in their own coordinates for an artillery or air strike....which has happened. Humans are a fallible lot.
I would make call outs in games to my friends and they would just not hear me. I wonder if the brain just ignores your ears when your eyes get to much input?
Very true what you say ..
Death by Ego.. . it's very common in aviation...
@@fajile5109 a lot to do with it being 73 years old his hearing was probably going. He was spending more time on trying to understand what he was hearing, then flying the plane. In 1979 my polite license were pulled due to hearing loss in my left ear now both at 65. I still fly but with a license polite next to me.
You got that military mental illness thing going poor communication is a sign that you are not functioning well for the military. Situational awareness is not dependent on communication military function is dependent on communication. Hoover's a great example of this. He's always taking a cheap shot at the national transportation safety board as if they have anything in common with his hobby. I hear him say I guess I guess I guess all the time and then he says the national transportation safety board is too slow and its investigation because they function on conclusions from the evidence gathered instead of a guess to sell views on RUclips.
Flew with an old corporate pilot who died of old age in his nineties. He got there by saying: That's the plan or intent when referencing a company flight. Some of the company people did not like his "lack of commitment" to a trip". If pushed too hard, he would say "Delta is ready when you are". Even up to the time of takeoff and during the flight, he would not commit to a time schedule or destination. It was: That is where and when we intend to go subject to conditions.
Sounds like he was always the most intelligent person in the room. Rest in peace old boy.
well he was committed to the truth, and after watching Hoover's content--I think that may be the number on rule of flying.
Things can change quickly when your flying.
Always best to keep re-thinking all the factors and select the best outcome for the situation at that time.
No fog banks for me, either in a plane or driving a vehicle.
His retort was FABULOUS!!! SO MUCH RESPECT for that man's insight (read, "common sense/street smarts")
Damn died flying into his 90’s as a corporate pilot, respect.
I'm not a pilot, but I like to watch your videos. The core of the lessons you give through them is suitable for many situations in life. Thanks for the video.
Agree, there are valuable lessons even if your vehicle of choice is a bicycle :)
Same here. Really enjoy these
Same
Yes! The quiet reassuring voice in my head …
Years ago as a young student pilot I too got myself into a situation like this. On a solo cross country I found myself way too high on base leg because of the pattern the controller had me fly. I decided to slip the plane to lose altitude and flying an unstable approach. After the first bounce I remembered my instructor telling me days before to always fly the plane so I applied power and lowered the nose to gain airspeed. I made the flight back home and my instructor and I talked about what happened to cause the issue and it started with the unstable approach. That flight scared me but it also taught me a valuable lesson that I still use today. Always fly the plane.
Great post! I posted above that I don't have power experience but I did fly sailplanes in the 80's. Initially, I flew the club's easy to land 1-26 with maybe a 22 to 1 glide ratio and solid landing brakes/spoilers. I eventually bought a Std Libelle with a 40 to 1 glide ratio, and propensity to float from ground lift and no flaps. Since you couldn't be short, you had to approach with plenty of speed and altitude and slipping was in your arsenal.
what is "an unstable approach"? (Duh, I know it's an approach....but is "unstable" a standard modifier? If so why? If not, what is the instability?
@DrDeuteron an unstable approach is when you are not at the proper speed, centerline, altitude, course or aircraft configuration that you should be at any specific distance from the runway.
I had two instructors, the one that signed me off for my cross country solo had always taught me, if you bounce, no matter how small, go around. They were both at the airport when I returned. I bounced and went around. The airplane could land in 200ft, the runway was one mile long. The instructor that signed me off said great go around, the other asked why i didn't just land on the 5000ft of runway after the bounce. I said because if I bounce I go around and try again not try to recover a flawed approach ans landing.
@@DrDeuteron speed (horizontal and vertical) and trajectory, especialy on final. I never hesitate to do a go around when I'm not stabilized on short final or something goes wrong during the flare.
Man these debriefs make me want to avoid flying private especially with friends
Especially not with a female pilot, lmao.
As it should. Private flights account for nearly all crashes, with a dozen a day worldwide. This type of stuff wouldn't be tolerated in commercial flight. You're more likely to die in an auto accident than flying every day commercial.
I see it differently, these people were unprepared for flying, it is very unforgiving.
I trust myself and my plane only.
I totally drive differently now! --- and I don't other people driving me
This like all the briefs are tough to hear. I am glad to be able to hear and review these conversations. Being able to recognize your limits and arming yourself with other peoples experience to draw upon is top tier
I hate it when people text and drive but texting and flying is crazy.
Not even that - her husband was at the back, why was it important for her to be the one texting? her husband could have been the one texting and updating her friends etc. I dont understand why she was obssessed on her being the one to text
@@fimmyk Hard to say, but as she respected her Dad as a pilot and had got her license to partly please him, she was clearly deferring to him. At the same time he was sounding like he might be losing his mental acuity. Tragic.
It is an addiction.
@@davebox588I’m 73 , my reaction and thought process is not at all what it was even 10 years ago . Got to accept it and take things a bit slower
Especially for PIC who was aware of the risk of distractions, mind boggling.
A LOT of people have no business trying to become pilots. I am one of them. My dad was a WWII Helldiver pilot and DFC recipient. I did not inherit his ability nor his desire to be a pilot. I admire great pilots and I have an interest in aviation however I do not particularly enjoy flying even as a passenger. Hoover’s commentary is the best on RUclips in my opinion.
Agree 100%. I took flying lessons many years ago when my children were still very young. I realized after a few lessons that I just wasn't detail oriented enough to continue. I quit and let others do my flying for me.
Me either. My father was a pilot and learned how to fly in the Air Force. He wanted me to get my license. But I said no way.
Never... So agree 👍
@JDCUSA I disagree with you. The only thing against you being a pilot is that you have no desire as you don’t enjoy flying. Recognising this attribute makes you suitable to be one. The level of ability required to be a pilot is very low, even for commercial flying. I was a pretty average pilot and all I ever did is fly in such a way that I didn’t spill my tea. Most of flying is nothing to do with the actual process of pulling levers, twiddling knobs and pressing buttons. It’s all about putting your brain ahead of the aircraft and keeping well away from the corners in the sky.
Yea unfortunately some people have the passion but not the brains or spine for it
Thank you, Hoover. You’re so valuable in the aviation community.
Hoover. I wonder how many pilots lives you’re saving with these videos? It’s like a weekly training exercise and gathering of knowledge. Keep up the amazing work. Best wishes from Scotland 🏴
Probably not as many as you hope. Most of these debriefs are about situations that pilots should have known better. Chiefly, if you are vfr and you see bad weather ahead, then turn back. But no. They always fly right into it.
This one was tough. But I am glad you did it. I hope others learn from your videos.
Agree. But everyone of these is tough. I believe that the point is to save lives. But a young woman lost is certainly tragic.
@@roderickcampbell2105WTH!? A mid 30s female is more important than two other men why?! 🤔
@@roderickcampbell2105 A child who will never know his/her parents or grandfather
Hope can I get the airplane on my user name?
@@Just.A.T-Rexwhat do you mean?
Im a student pilot myself, after watching this i could just see the get-there-itis issues, and while she did seem more competent she had alot more to learn before flying somewhere with a deadline.
The way my instructor explained it to me is “if you arent sure if weather will get better the day before, and your not IFR rated, dont risk it because while you may think you can divert with enough fuel, go around clouds, your going to be thinking of your appointment and thatll put you in danger”
To me (from the position of hindsight and as a studdnt) if i had to keep telling my dad the runway heading 3 times and he was losing track of where the runway was, i personally would have taken over. Again this is easy to say not being in the situation and only hearing about it but its still a huge tragedy
“Taking over” is easy to say as an outside observer. She was a new pilot with not much more experience than you have now. She was also flying a new type of airplane for her. This airplane was also both high performance, as well as complex, both of which require endorsements, which it seems she did not have. It’s not a matter of her taking over command of the airplane, but that she should not have been flying it in the first place.
He was flying from the right seat, which no matter how much experience you have in an airplane takes some time to get comfortable with. Add to that distractions in the cockpit and flying to an unfamiliar place without updated weather.
He should have flown from the left seat, she should have sought proper instruction in the plane before taking the controls, and both should have minimized distractions.
Were i to fly id focus on IFR but im used to managing numbers
Yeah, I've put off travel for weather just driving, I can't imagine ignoring weather when you're a new pilot and not even IFR rated. Just zero reason to risk it, whether you care about your life or money, or both, you're risking too much.
doing instruction was also dangerous
Lots of things going on in this one. They probably had her in the left seat to get more experience. Not a bad idea, but much, much more wisely done on flights with no deadline and flights in familiar areas. Also, with a new airport, my protocol is to fly over it a thousand feet above the landing pattern to get a good view of the airport and then swing around to enter the pattern. As for flying with a family member that is a pilot and senior to you and has more experience, adds another dynamic. Once during a night landing with my father piloting, I had to almost yell to him several times that he was “high and hot” on final for him to finally abort. I think he was tired after a long day flying and just wanted to land ASAP and get home.
As a new pilot, have the mind set of being prepared to identify these things that can distract you from flying the plane the safest way possible.
These videos are a great way to exercise your own decision making skills. I found myself actually talking to my iPad, “Hand the phone to your husband” “quit asking your dad and focus” “ GO AROUND!”
Truth is it’s a lot easier to see these patterns when you’re sitting on the couch and not actually in the situation. I’m so sorry for the loss of these lives
Another major contributing factor was the fact that her dad was too old. Her dad was getting flustered and confused even with the simple things that come naturally to a pilot, and that resulted in them being killed. It's something that's so tragically obvious, but nobody wants to admit.
Especially in this case. She had to tell him the runway like 5 times in a row. That seems like he was actually way beyond the point where he should be flying. It is one thing if he misses it the first or second time but that many times is too much, his age and cognitive decline were majority factor here. She absolutely should have been on the controls, they would have had a much better chance.
I think you're flustered! Are you old enough to be flustered? Maybe it wasn't his age, probably was his race. So this antique dinosaur, was mansplaining? The problem was caused by his age not his race not his gender isn't there something left disability maybe?
Absolutely right. There's nothing wrong with getting old, but there is something wrong with them flying a plane. ATC has to retire at 55, because it's proven beyond that age, more and more mistakes happened.
@Oxnaf there's a difficulty here with you unfortunately their this man is an individual citizen of the United States so we don't just count off his age on his right to participate in things that he has earned. Your comment about the air traffic controller is just like every other kind of oppressive right-wing hate monger. What's your case for limiting the race and gender and age of people who are allowed to fly airplanes? It's probably just as ugly as the other argument you made and that's okay you got to live with you. Are there any disabled people allowed to be air traffic controllers? There seems to be an awful lot of people who reflect the Sun a great deal more than others in the air traffic controller game. So you need somebody who reflects a lot of light to fly an airplane because that's what kind of person is an air traffic controller? Of course we have you here a developmentally disabled person with the right to come on here. You do realize air traffic controllers are employees and they have rules about who they can fire that are inherently different than the rules about who can get a license to do something as a citizen?
@@Oxnaf Absolutely. Nothing wrong with aging but you have to recognise how it's affecting you. I gave up flying years ago and I have to admit that mental calcs like crosswind allowance, off-track etc. that I used to do in a heartbeat, I have to work at now. OMGosh, she was trying so hard to live up to her Dad but in the end that deference killed them all. Made me really sad.
You are doing the aviation industry a great service with this channel. I am no pilot (20 hours) But it would seem flying aircraft safely is all about preparation, being ahead of the aircraft and each segment of flight. Great Job Dude!
At the risk of pointing out the blatantly obvious, a pilot's mental energy should be focused solely on flying the plane safely. Worrying about meet ups at the airport while you're still in the air is extremely irresponsible.
A very human mistake though, in an environment as you say you need to be completely focused on the flight and conditions.
Monday morning quarterback much!?
It is not irresponsible: it is human. I’m a professional pilot: sometimes you need a lot of self discipline to keep you, while flying, “away” from your life
Women can do anything
If distractions in a car can lead to a crash its obvious that those distractions need to be more so ignored in a plane.
This story reminds me of when I was 18 yrs old and taking a long drive from Modesto, CA to the Point Loma Naval Base in San Diego, CA with 4 of my friends and my retired truck driver grandfather. Then in his 80s, he loved to drive my 1968 VW 19-window bus as it reminded him of driving a truck, and on that trip, he got it in his head that he would drive my friends and I the entire way. It was a quick turnaround, 9 hours each way, starting the on Friday around noon and last 5 hours of drive home was a nightmare. It was a dark HWY (5 - CA) it was storming, my grandfather was exhausted and having problems just keeping in his lane due to the high winds. Even finding the off-ramps to stop for gas was challenging for him. And then he started falling asleep every 15 minutes, freaking out my friends. They'd yell for me to drive, to which my grandfather would argue, "I'm fine! I've been driving since before you kids were born!" Had it been anyone else I would've forced them to stop, pulling the emergency brake and turning off the engine myself. But it was my grandfather......In this case I ended up waiting and demanding the keys from him while we were stopped at a gas station. He didn't speak to me for months, not even at Thanksgiving and Christmas that year, but we got home in one piece.
I know this wasn't flying but the _family dynamic_ is the same. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, but it wasn't fair to endanger my friend's lives to spare his feelings. I can't imagine having the same situation happen while flying. Ugh.
Sounds like daddy shouldn't have been flying.
he was impatient as she was likely annoying him over her friends schedule
I'd be willing to bet he was on medications. He was probably a good pilot and that's why she trusted him, not realizing he'd taken his medications that morning. It's not politically correct to say seniors taking medications shouldn't be driving or flying, but they shouldn't. I know from experience, I work with them, he sounded confused just like my clients get.
That's what I came here to say‼️ Why oh why didn't Shauna retain control of the plane‼️😭😭😭
Yeah he sounded like he had dementia wtf
Once again, Grim Reaper, your name is Ego
Absolutely ..
1 million %
Inability to say...
"I need help".
1 bounce you're below average talent...
4 bounces... you're clueless
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I am not nor ever have been a pilot. As a wilderness guide I am very interested in the root causes of accidents and how to avoid them. Your debriefs continue to be amazing and fundamental analyses of what went wrong. Hubris, power dynamics, who's in charge, get there-itis are really hard to avoid! Thanks for the excellent, sensitive and humble content.
I got into a PIO as a student pilot on my first cross country, trying to land at the first airport. I had no idea what was happening, or why. Luckily my instinct was to get back into the air. I powered up, bounced one time in the desert parallel to the runway and got airborne. Pure luck I didn't damage the airplane or worse. This was before the internet. Before Hoover and others, teaching us things like this. I am guessing you have already saved some lives doing these videos. Thank you for doing these.
I was young just out of school working my first job for a company owned by a pilot. We would fly everywhere for business. I recall on many occasions coming close to treetops and low clouds just before landing and the relief on my bosses face whenever we landed safely.
I was too young and naive to understand the danger but decades later I realize that these sort of accidents don't happen on the first risky attempt. Instead, there were probably 10 other questionable flights that were barely survived that probably influenced the tragedy of a fatal flight.
@@wjatube Great comment! There is often a pattern of behavior that relates to an incident!
Before the internet and RUclips videoes there were books like "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche, or magazines like "Flying" with articles such as "I Learned About Flying From That," and articles and books by one of the editors, Richard Collins. Those three sources helped me understand a lot of things my instructors weren't getting through to me on, or I was too dense to understand.
Fly the bloody aircraft forget the phone, Jesus it is so infuriating how people think flying is some kind of game
You get that the phone user wasn't the one who crashed the plane, right?
Her father took over the landing. That got them all killed.
Same with driving how many idiots are on the road texting
She wasn't flying when the crashed.
The husband should have said "Shove over you two, I'LL fly the damned plane."
I've been flying for 22 years as a private pilot. So many people I talk to never practice go-arounds. For many years I flew with my daughter. She has her ATP as well as being a CFI. Whenever we flew, even though I have more years flying and am her Dad, I always deferred to her decision making. If she said "Dad, go-around", we did. Neither of us ever said, "No, I got this".
Excellent and very edifying. Thank you, Hoover! My wife and I are not pilots, but love aircraft, and visit our local private airport 15 minutes from us several times a week, just to watch the student pilots. Your videos are life lessons.
Unfortunate outcome, detailed debriefing, Thank you 👍🏻
Dad had some age related cognitive issues(?), family dynamic of daughter deferring to dad, PLUS many distractions! Very sad.
Yep, it appears that most of her communication with her father was in a tentative manner, not as it should have been with her as PIC. And his unspoken attitude of, "Well she's just my little girl; surely I should be the one to get us down safely." instead of being such a hard head and letting his daughter fly the plane!
I cannot imagine the heartbreak of her friends that she was texting. Absolutely no doubt that they would have been totally understanding of any necessary change in plans. They certainly would have rather had her with them later, and alive!
I am impressed that you are able to put out a new video every week and still do your day job.
it's a good service and side income
No texting while driving and don't ever think of this while flying, especially an approach plus unclear weather conditions.
Don’t text but it’s okay to pull up an approach plate and stare at that?
I really appreciate this channel. I'm not a pilot...yet. I have been a lifelong aviation enthusiast, and at 61, I hope to start flight training soon. However, I want to be the safest pilot possible or not at all.
What I find most interesting is the hours the old guy had yet how susceptible we all can be to little mistakes that can be ones undoing.
From the sound of it.. a simple and straight forward decision to go around even before touching the runway!
I like the swiss cheese model diagram. I am 62 and when i was a vfr pilot in the 90's i was aware of the "cone model" for aviation accidents. When you begin planning a flight you basically enter the wide part of the cone where you have the option to make many flight decisions, but if you begin making poor decisions the cone narrows as your decision making becomes limited due to previous bad decisions, and if you continue making poor decisions you enter the narrowest part of the cone that ends in a point when all of your options are exhausted and you crash. Honestly, when i was a pilot i thought i was a pretty good pilot, but actually i should be dead from a few different scenarios during my time as pilot. Some are born pilots, i am not one of them and i would never be a pilot again. I love Hoover's videos however and never miss one
It's not a swiss cheese model when no one involved is competent or risk aware. It's the russian roulette model. Only by chance you'd survive.
That's the reason you're still alive ..
Humility..
I like swiss cheese 🧀
This one was hard to get through, but so important to show us how this could have happened, thank you Hoover for all of your hard work for more great information on your debriefs.
Thanks Hoover. There were many situational awareness and management issues we can learn from this. We are military and have trained for when the tactical situation becomes fluid, but the school solution is to demand normalcy and stabilization. It is hard to determine how to best help less experienced pilots. It is easier to evaluate comfort and currency and competence for IMC hand flying. There are so many variables where pitch, yaw, and roll are not limited and ATC is not there and airspeed, altitude, and procedural track are not set in stone and protected. Flying physically is so much easier than driving or operating equipment, but the fluidity of the tactical situation is so much greater.
I know altitude is time and safety, but I lived low in small airplanes my entire career. Low altitude orientation VFR is zoom reserve airspeed except for a slow approach and stay in contact with the earth. Too high and too fast to make either a runway or a survivable field just doesn't compute for me.
Wow! That was one subject matter expert addressing another with the greatest economy of precise terminology. It showcases, a) the degree of technical complexity that attaches to competently flying, and b) Hoover’s ability to translate that technical complexity into understandable explanations for the layman.
Thank you again Hoover for your analysis.
Though each story is someone's profound tragedy, they deliver incredibly useful information for future pilots. We can never prevent tragedy as that's seems to be the nature of reality, we can however take notice of what structures lead to accidents and learn from it to limit future risk as well as possible. Any current and aspiring pilot would do well to think about these accidents, reflect about how they relate to their own flying and literally take care.
I'm working on my CFI right now. Flying from the right is A LOT more different than people realize.
Unless you do it all the time, it's not a good idea. I'm as comfortable in the right seat as the left, but it took time and practice.
Now i wanna know what is ao disorienting about it.
Are the cockpits that asymmetrical?
With no lanes or traffic rules idk what it would be really.
Is it just muscle memory?
@@jhoughjr1 flying relies so much on sight picture , landings and takeoffs feel very different the other side. Plus now your throttle hand is the left hand.
Imagine a car where you get in the opposite side you are used to but ALSO the brake and throttle pedals are reversed so you have to learn to accelerate with your left foot and brake with your right. Takes practice
@@jhoughjr1 It is a lot of muscle memory. How much your hand moves when you get pushed by with wind.... and so forth. In the left... you fly with your left hand, and throttle/prop/mix with your right. in the right seat, it's reversed. so your "Feel" goes away. Also... when landing, and fighting a little cross wind... you get a feel of what is "Straight". In the right seat, that "Feel" isn't the same. And finally... yes... the cockpit is asymmetric in a small aircraft. So you are now searching for the info you need, and your flight instruments are at an angle, and may not read the same. My first few landings from the right was BAD.
What a cluster of both pilots.
Her dad had over 2200 hours. How is that "low"? This was poor CRM and unclear definition of who is PIC.
Daddy daughter teams seem dangerous. Many end up dying together
You missed the word f👀k ....
@@aaronbrown6266the father said, “let me have it," meaning land the plane. They both knew he was PIC at that point. Hours clearly were irrelevant considering his fatal landing. I agree it was overall cluster of both pilots. In boat handling, I made the mistake of agreeing to give my helm to the older male, more experienced friend when he announced he wanted it for docking in weather. He didn’t ask or confer, he told me, just like this dad. I later realized I was the better prepared and should have said no but as a female that option was never modeled for me and never crossed my mind. Now I know better. All women need to learn this. It’s still way too common.
Zero hours in this plane
Thank you for the video. Hope it saves others from making similar mistakes but this was very hard to swallow.
This happens more often than we think. It’s not a bus on the road. You cannot just figure it out. Experience and judgement… not much here.
These are incredibly well done an informative . I have been a frequent passenger on the same plane. Watching these debriefs makes me realize how easily things can wrong . I’m not sure I would fly general aviation again
Absolutely fantastic debrief, as for usual.
I’m consistently astounded that the NTSB doesn’t protocolize CRM factors into their reports.
Hoover has a laser pointer aimed at what is fundamentally missing. Well done, sir.
This is a tragic and heartbreaking story. I will never fly in a private plan again due to the horrific, life threatening, experience of flying as a passenger through hail, thunder and lightening and a six-seater plane that was falling apart.
It look to me the old man didn't fly his airplane very often. This is the same pattern with many older Bonanza owners. They had many hours on lower performance Cessna and such and when they got older, they could afford to own Bonanza. Yet they rarely practice flying their birds. At my field, there are a lot of fast Bonanza, Mooney, and Cirrus. Yet, you don't often see them flying, or even flying in the pattern. When they fly, they enter the pattern very fast, turning base leg fast and somehow made it to landing. On the descend from cruise, they chop the power on the downwind instead of slowing down to pattern speed before getting into the pattern, they got behind because the airplanes were still too fast to land.
Boomers gonna boomer.
I’ve learned from watching your videos and other videos like yours, that the worse thing to do as a pilot, is making your schedule of events, the priority. Instead of flying yourself and your passengers safely to the destination. Another death, proving the statistics correctly.
That’s where the saying “got time to spare? Go by air” comes from
We see this on the roads too. People drive incredibly too fast for conditions.
"steep authority gradient" in the cockpit. Adding that to my vocabulary. Thank you, Hoover, for another excellent debrief. IMHO (I am not a pilot), the cause of the accident was not the steep angle of attack and stall, but everything that led up to and caused that final fatal factor. Including the steep authority gradient. And, I will never understand why pilots schedule or time events on the assumption that the flight will proceed as smoothly as a drive in the car to the corner drugstore.
Thank you Hoover!!! I always learn something when you do these Debriefs...
And it’s not about flying- it’s life lessons
She treated flying a plane like driving a car. Ridiculous. More concerned with her friends than staying alive
Id say something that may
Violate community guidelines.
But i thnk i dont need to
On certain levels yeah, but I think the bigger factor was the power dynamic in the cockpit. Neither pilot was behaving as PIC. She was deferring to her father, even though she was in the left seat. He was clearly having some sort of cognitive issues happening and shouldn't have been flying. He was making several poor decisions and she was not forcefully pushing back on them even though she clearly knew they were not good decisions. This combined with the distractions of texting her friend, are the swiss cheese holes that led to the crash.
The swiss cheese model doesn't apply when everyone involved is fundamentally setting themselves up for failure
@@rijlqanturis625yeah, it's a classic case where he's supposed to be the more experienced pilot so she isn't taking charge when he's incapacitated and unable to properly manage the flight. Her being distracted while flying is bad but the other factor is what directly caused the crash.
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x oh gawd if we could only make it through one debrief without reference to a swiss cheese model . . .
Sad but also avoidable. Zero pre-flight plan and were just "winging it" as they went including landing speeds. I don't have a single minute of power time but did fly sailplanes in my earlier days and a pre-flight was a must. I still remember comments from one of the World's most famous glider pilots about a Std Austria glider with a V-shape tail that showed up at the club. He said it was an accident waiting to happen. And that particular glider crashed months later.
Why do I always get that sinking feeling when I see a toothy grin framed by sunglasses and headphones? Tragedy lurks.
Better to arrive late than dead. I don't get why she was so worried about her friends meeting them at the airport. It was only 40 minutes, they could have waited to land and then tell them to pick them up. 3 dead and an orphaned baby because of impatience. Its crazy!
I have always thought this about JFK Jr. He could have waited until morning.
@@juliedepaolo9971 And most of the other small plane crashes.
Another example of someone in way over their head. If flying without her father that family would still be alive today.
Yeah it seems ahe made the right calls just not with authority and assettiveness.
Something hard worh parent child
Tragic. Learned a new term, 'steep authority gradient'...yeah we often arent at our best when family watching. Maybe insist on a written checklist/plan when distractions possible. Food for thought. Thx !
Good morning Hoover. Always look forward to your Sunday morning debriefs 💙🙏
If you are not an investigative journalist you are something very much like it my friend. These videos are so thoroughly done and researched. You could literally call yourself a journalist
I feel like this entire incident could have been avoided by briefing the flight, briefing the weather and briefing responsibilities. I have no idea why GA pilots never seem to do this... It costs nothing to go into a flight with a plan, a backup and an understanding of what you're getting into.
On an aside; my personal minimum for GA x-country is 2 days on either end. If I can't leave 2 days early or arrive 2 days late, then I don't go! This prevents me from talking myself into making a bad decision. I also verbally brief each flight from block to block, even if I am the only one in the aircraft. I leave nothing to chance.
OMG! A new mother! 🤔🤔🤔🙄🙄🙄My brother-in -law quit scuba driving when he became a parent ! I am very thankful he did that!
Lifestyle was more important than life.
And they filmed the whole thing...
Tragic. “Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has come.” ~ Tussman’s Law.
I'm a fairly new pilot with my own video channel. On my flights, I keep hand written notes on frequencies, runways, etc. I also do extensive weather briefings before each flight. I never would have taken off for this flight with such low ceilings. Also, once in the pattern, airspeeds are critical. Any bouncing on landing should immediately result in a go around. Incredible shame that these people died.
I'm no pilot but have had high risk jobs ...and survived. If I were you I'd binge watch this channel and the Blancolirio channel by Juan Browne which are both relevant to small aircraft. Any idiot can crash a airworthy airplane?
I’m a pilot and I say it depends on the bounce. If it’s a small bounce it can be corrected without PIO and the plane landed safely. If it’s a big one then yes, go around.
What the hell that father really messed things up, poor little baby I hope he has a happy life😢
One red flag for me is that the father always flew an unusually high airspeed in the pattern and on final. I fly a TR182 and for my aircraft I'm always higher than usual on final because with full flaps my aircraft will do a really steep descent--but I fly at 60-65kn on final. If I'm too fast it's going to float further down the runway.
I'd gotten checked out years ago in a 1959 Model 35 V tailed Bonanza. I only had several hours in it and didn't end up renting because I didn't realize that the flight school would not let anyone file IFR in that aircraft due to insurance stipulations. What I distinctly remember of this model (and some other aircraft like Mooney) is that they are so aerodynamically clean that you've got to nail the speed numbers or you'll float down the runway. They appeared to be in VFR conditions, way too high and way too fast. I suspect he drove it down resulting in severe porpoising. The V tail makes it way worse if sudden elevator changes are made as happened here.
I remember that this aircraft had a high accident rate and was known as the "doctor killer". When I searched though, apparently most of the failures were inflight breakup due to pilots exceeding max airspeed. That wasn't the case here. I believe that the father's habit of coming in too fast on final contributed to his confidence that he could land safely. They were too high, too fast and should never have attempted to land with such an unstable approach. They could just have overflown the runway and re-entered the pattern for a second attempt at pattern altitude and proper airspeed. While they did initiate a go around, that was after several bounces and possibly one or more was severe enough to have had a prop strike, thereby limiting aircraft performance in the go around which ultimately resulted in a stall. It also could have simply been a lack of attention to airspeed during the climbout after initiating the go around.
It appears that the father was disoriented for some reason. Maybe he was distracted with something else on his mind, or maybe it was health related. The reason for that we'll never know. God bless these people. It's all just a damned shame.
So, fly the plane safely 1st, then once you arrive safely, figure out the "plans" after touch down. Your best laid plans don't matter if you are dead... Sad, but cautionary tale.
For somebody with 2000 hrs, Robert wasn't much of a pilot
Nope. Just shows that old adage that PERFECT practice makes perfect. You can do something wrong thousands of times and still get yourself offed in a stupid way. This guy had a combination of incompetence and ego and maybe cognitive decline.
I remember this one. The shitty thing is that Right outside of the valley Napa sets in is typically clear and there's three airports within 30 minutes drive it's just unfortunate
The dynamics of a family member in the cockpit can really be difficult. Pilot in command is an ethos that needs to be honored and maintained. my heart is broken as the father of two daughters hearing this story. It seemed like pilot in command/father/daughter was moving back-and-forth throughout the flight.
That bonanza is an awful lot of plane for a less than 100 hour pilot. Obviously, he even struggled with not knowing the limits of that plane.
You know what we need, Hoover? A video for non-pilots about things to know/ what questions to ask before even stepping onto a private plane. How do I know I’m with a skilled pilot? What questions do I ask him/her to discern if they are a capable pilot?
Good morning, Hoover. Thanks for another helpful vid.
First non-pilot thoughts:
. That poor baby 😢
. That poor friend who upon hearing the news was probably yelling into the sky, I wouldn't have been mad! why did you keep going? You would be alive.
. Family dynamics remain, no matter how old we get.
. HOOVER: All of the things you could tell and yet NTSB didn't catch them. They must never look at social media or ownership records🤷🏻♀️.
The fact that you caught the steering column / keying mic combination, and they didn't shows me if I were ever in a crash, I would want you to do the investigation.
Thank you Hoover for all you do. I've been watching you from the beginning 👍🏼
Hoover is definitely the guy u want flying u. Or 74 crew. Both inspire confidence
I asked my congressman to look into NTSB thoroughness
I’ll get in a small plane right after I go caving… i.e. never.
Caving while scuba diving! I'll never understand (willingly) entering a situation with little to no options for an alive outcome. There are pilots that can fly me in a small plane, and caves to explore with a level of safety. As Dirty Harry said "A man's got to know his limitations".
This is such a tragic one, really felt for the infant
Very informative debrief. I remember this accident. I have a home in Angwin and have flown once from that airport. If you know the area at all, you know that there is a zero percent chance that KAPC and KSTS are good proxies for the WX in Angwin. It’s a completely different microclimate as they observed when they arrived. Interesting point is that for all of the failures in weather planning, ride coordination, etc., get-there-itis wasn’t the cause of this tragedy. It was the Macho hazardous attitude. There was simply no need to land on the first attempt. In fact, given he was so high when he identified the field, from the get-go he could have planned for a low approach (committing to the fact that you are not gonna land on first pass even if everything looks OK) in order to smoothly get down to TPA and orient himself to the runway. He could then decide if he wanted to make another lap and land. Any mountain flying course stresses this option. I’ll also note that this pilot flew a high performance, complex airplane, had 2200 hours and never got an instrument rating. Maybe he thought he didn’t really need it.
Question: how do they know about all that conversation inside the cabin?
@ I wondered that too. Evidently the data card in the GoPro camera must have recovered and readable. That plus ATC tape for some of the radio comms. That’s my guess.
Angwin is tricky on a good day.. and looking at weather at sonoma is no help as you noted Angwin is normally above the marine layer . the other alternative airport when you have Marine layers in that neck of the woods is Lampson 30 miles north.. No Marine layer there.. And the Pope valley aiport even though private is usually clear as well.. going to Napa ( spent most of my life there and learned to fly there.. ) Just wait till the afternoon marine layer is gone etc etc.. High and hot should have been a go around without even trying to land on that shorter tricker runway.
This one is incredibly tragic. I just want to cry.
sad sad sad, Dad was confused for a long while before killing everybody, daughter was TOO respectful, and now an orphan was born.
Sounds like dad should have sold his plane about 8 years earlier when he was 65.
I haven't set foot on a plane since 2013 and will never fly again. Prior to that it has been my favorite thing to do with millions of miles of air travel including flying lessons for me and my kids. Then my son became an ATC-S, military first, then FAA. I hope I never need a medevac either. I'm happy to be a spectator at the air shows and visit all the hangars/ museums every chance I get (many road trips!) 😊 Much gratitude for all US military aviators!!! Y'all are a special breed! 💪🇺🇸 much respect
The dad probably only flew on severe nice days. She cornered him into a stressful situation he's never been in by repeatedly telling him important people were waiting on his decision in questionable weather. She made very sure to constantly remind him of her time constraints. He was so stressed he had no clue where he was spacially. He wanted to be on the ground so badly, he didn't care what speed and configuration he was. Just didn't care.
Being easily distracted ran in the family?
from what i've learned from watching alot of these type of videos. the pre flight plan is the most crucial step! the fact they choose to fly in areas that did not have good weather while lacking the proper equipment it was the catalyst and all the small errors started cascading into big problems like the classic swiss cheese model. i had knots as soon as she asked her dad what the landing speed was, if this was suppose to be a teachable moment he should have told her to look at the reference manual to get a baseline not give his own "fast and loose" approach he's been doing. also this is why i would never get on a "casual, fun ride" with a new pilot, just imagine you're chilling up there and they are over here going "how am i suppose to land again?"
This is extremely sad, listening to this, It sounded like the daughter was more of a seasoned pilot than the father.
Love your new set. I am not a pilot but enjoy your show and the way you lay everything out.
So many opportunities to avoid this tragedy. They kept poking their own holes in the Swiss cheese.
I wonder if anyone investigated Robert's mental condition. For someone with his level of experience he seemed terribly unfocused, forgetful and/or confused. If Shauna would have remained the pilot the entire time this sad tragedy may well not have happened. Robert should have remained in a support role and never taken the controls.
Hoover, thanks again for another in-depth debrief that is far more valuable than the NTSB report. Details like this better explain how and why these accidents happen, and i truly believe that your debriefs are saving lives.
@@mikelomax9957 : That's what I was thinking.. Dementia, Alzheimer's, double dose of pain pills?
Something wasn't right with him.
Sad ending to a lovely couple and father. It’s always tough for kids, no matter how old will look to parents for support and advice. My own daughter likes flying and if and when she takes lessons it will not be with me. RIP and thank you Hoover for a well prepared, presented and emotionally sensitive video.
Another great video from Hoover.
Good god. Father, daughter, and husband all gone in a preventable accident. God give their family the strength to move forward.
The family is gone and god didn't help them not crash
Probably a therapist to help the family move forward
Amen.
There is no god only fact and superstition. Believe it
Not believing god doesn’t make you smart
My dad was airline pilot. He never showed any wish for me to become pilot too, although i loved planes from early age as opposed to my brother who couldn't be more indifferent.
So scary and terrifying the horror.
@@canlib 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
Wanted to be a pilot since I was a little more than a toddler. I think it was the image of the profession that attracted me and not the technology and skills. Eventually I at 19 years old I signed up to a PPL course, all paid for by the Bank of Mom and Dad. Well cut a long story short it didn't take me long to realise that I was never going to be pilot material. Reason? I was scared of heights!! Anyway, I studied hard and tried to put in as many solo hours as I could until I passed the theory tests and the practical. Then at the princely amount of 94 flying hours, I stepped out of the aircraft and gave up the dream because with every passing hour, I knew that one day I would kill either myself or someone else.
NTSB needs to correct obvious errors in the report (flight time) and release all documents to investigations. The more withholdings/gaps in the report, the less credible the results. Their reports have become increasing useless to illuminate the chain of contributing factors from which we can learn. Thanks for digging deeper.
Not really relevant to the crash, but his S/N allowed extending gear up to 177 MPH indicated.
Sounds very much like Shawna was some one hadn't heard no enough.
I have friends that from the minute they get out of bed to the time they go to sleep at night they wont let the cell phone off their hands for one minute, they go to the bathroom with the cell in their pant´s pocket, seat down to eat and the damm cell is next to the glass of water. This makes me sick, sorry.
This lady (God bless her) is still "learning the ropes " of flying but wont let the cell go and texting to her friends.
Driving a car and texting is dangerous, imagine a plane !!!
Well, that was depressing. Some 73-year olds are not all 73-year olds. He can't even remain clear on how to key the mike and he's the pilot in command. Oooh boy.
Unfortunately, when you get to your 70s your situational awareness is not as sharp as years earlier. Looking at him, I can see he's not in great shape and this I'm afraid can reflect neurologically. A shame that the daughter didn't feel she could be more strident, but it's her husband that I feel really sorry for, as he had no opportunity to take charge of the situation. At best he pointed out where the airfield was when clearly the two pilots were having situational awareness difficulties. The daughters' texting and arrival concerns clearly impacted her focus. When I did my PPL(H) some 20+ years ago here in the UK, it was drummed in to me never to have my phone switched on and when I subsequently passed and flew solo, I never ever used my phone until I'd exited the aircraft.
I just dont understand the
NTSB 's inabilitie to do a complete and thorough investigation as if as long as they're good then the investigation is done?
Poor little baby now an orphan.
They don't deal in feelings and relationships
Pesky taxpayers demanding they actually do work 😮 They have c0caine and h00kers to get back too at the hotel.
So when she said she wanted to get more experience before flying with family that’s EXACTLY what she needed. Dad seemed to have lost some ability it’s immediately clear she needed to take control back over for the landing but I can imagine why she didn’t speak up more. So sad, rip to all.
Thanks!
Okay. I'm a 160 hour pilot. Things I wouldn't consider doing. 1. Flying a six seat, six cylinder, high performance airplane, 2. long distance, 3. in crappy weather, 4. with family members. All are WAY too scary for me. The problem is that I might have thought it okay to do if I was a 50 hour pilot. She was WAY in over her head. The more I fly the scarier it gets. I'm working on mastering the C150. And don't bark that it was the CFI's responsibility to warn her. He probably did but she was a grown-up.
Her Dad's airplane? To him, this trip would be NBD so that's probably what sucked her in to this black hole. She trusted him and didn't know the danger.