Marvel's ECHO is Bad (Explored)
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- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2024
- Back in 2023, the overlords at Marvel realized they might have messed up. The return of Disney CEO Bob Iger signalled a change in the wind, with a much-needed slowdown on the horizon. As a result, their 2024 calendar looked surprisingly light, with "Echo" and "Deadpool 3" as the only things the company would be releasing.
With all its episodes dumped onto Disney in one go, "Echo" emerged as a show that marked the dawn of the Marvel Spotlight era, a promise to bring more grounded, character-driven stories - their attempt to pivot from its 16-year legacy of intertwined, complex narratives to something a bit more... digestible for the casual viewer. But, "Echo" quickly strays from its pledged path. In less than thirty minutes, the show dives headfirst into familiar territory, with Maya Lopez and Daredevil thrown into an unremarkable brawl, and a cameo by Jeremy Renner's Hawkeye, highlighting they knew it couldn’t stand on its own legs.
The action is sub-par, the writers confuse arrogance with stoicism, characters lack defined arcs, clear motivations, and seem to float in a narrative limbo. And they’ve butchered not only the character of Maya from the comics, but also Wilson Fisk from the Daredevil Netflix series. Worst of all, the show is boring and hard to get through.
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#echo #kingpin #daredevil #vincentdonofrio
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Развлечения
The actor for Fisk sounds so sad that one of his best roles was reduced to this piece of shit
They really ruined him :(
Kingpin went from a menace to a circus clown
To the people who are still sane, do you believe that bad media is a sign that we are becoming a dystopia or that there are more conservatives/irresponsible writers than libertarian/responsible writers
Here’s a quick and simple test to that will help you discover if your a conservative or a libertarian: how do you feel when someone says, With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
@@uria3679conservative writers? Are you kidding me? All those shitty series and movies are wrote, filmed and acted by liberals.
@@uria3679 Get off the internet and the world will instantly be a better place.
The main problem with 'Echo' is that she is NOT a superhero; she's a murderous, unrepentant villain but treated as a hero. IT's the same as they've done in WandaVision. Wanda(I still love her) held an entire town hostage and mentally tortured them for who knows how long - and the "good guys" let her get away with it.
Today I learned: Marvel Universe has flying aircraft carriers, aliens and shit, but no safety glass for cars.
Oh it's worse than "Let her get away with it" when the authorities try to intervene the leader is portrayed as the bad guy, because he's a middle aged white guy.
If by "good guys" you mean literally only Vision then yeah. But she went into hiding for years loo
@@TheGililgiDr strange called her freeing the people she effectively enslaved as a sacrifice
Well Wanda being morally ambiguous isn't inaccurate from the comics lmfao.
@@Adontheimperfectionist Morally ambiguous is not "mentally enslaving a town".
That line in Rise of Skywalker still kills me and you can see the stress on Oscar’s face when he had to deliver that line
What line? There are many lines to do, read, or write. 🤣
@@KermitOfWarI guess it's the “Somehow Palpatine returned”
There's a line? I never watched the star wars after the idk the first new one
Somehow that old creep showed back up my dudes ... Poe Damron
To the people who are still sane, do you believe that bad media is a sign that we are becoming a dystopia or that there are more conservatives/irresponsible writers than libertarian/responsible writers
Here’s a quick and simple test to that will help you discover if your a conservative or a libertarian: how do you feel when someone says, With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
Man poor denafrio from an intimidating, no nonsense scary character to a joke. What an insult for such a great performance
So true. I just finished rewatching daredevil and whenever Fisk was on screen I was always on the edge of my seat even though I knew what was going to happen.
Like he cares ,he is only in it for the paycheck!
@@andy-floriplay-time7366 That's bs. He's talked a lot about how much he loves the character. It's the same with Charlie Cox. Don't bring the actor down.
I seriously can’t believe somebody actually wrote in the script “queen pin“
Made me puke in my mouth a little since it shows zero understanding of the term. just wanted to overthrow the patriarchy for points.
Remember when Kingpin would actually be dedicated enough to learn new languages just to keep his empire intact when managing fellow crime bosses? I do.
Also, fantastic video!!!
My respect for you has skyrocketed even more with how you've critiqued this show with class!
Sadly, Donofrio's butchering of Mandarin was difficult to watch. Kudos to him for trying though.
The director just straight up changed her power set?? Wow, Marvel really hires any moron with decent track record these days.
James Gunn be like
@@ChocolateEffigy Gunn has proven himself to be a great filmmaker, and writer. Changing enough, but not everything to make it work.
@@proto245 Gunn hate is forced.
I love how Bob Iger gets away with everything wrong with Disney completely scot free by everyone
Gotta love how in most cases FCE will try to have sympathy, and say “oh it’s flawed” or “it’s a failure” but still tried to say it tried
The title here is “it’s bad”. You’ve gotta love that
Honestly the thing that made me most upset is how they try and present Echo as a product of her life but in flash backs you can clearly see she’s a psycho since she was born, shooting a bird and lying, kicking a beaten man because he was slightly rude to her because she NEVER bothers to inform or learn to read lips but insists if YOU learn to show you care, she’s constantly endangering her family and making them do crimes how is anyone supposed to like her
What drives me insane is how they could've turned this around by keeping her as a villain, and by the end she should've strangled her connection with her heritage, and family, but now she has now the resources, and drive to go after Fisk's crown to become the newest queen of crime. But that would imply going against their clearly established objective to be an inclusive representation of her Native American origins rather than tell a compelling, grounded story about a woman that simply is too driven by her own ambitions to find peace.
If they wanted to redeem her, they should've established first, why should we take note of Echo. That's how fucking Loki worked.
This is exactly how I felt. I spent the whole time genuinely confused whether we were actually supposed to be rooting for Maya. Everything you listed voices how I felt better than I could, but yes, this is exactly what I felt.
women flock to genuinely horrible characters. it's one of the things that allow them to first justify and later normalize absolutely abhorrent behavior. think of concepts like the "ick," basically the concept of just disliking something but so socially warped that women actually believe its normal to abandon a guy after a year relationship because he doesnt like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or something equally as silly. this is just another way for the damaged sad women that work at these companies to push propaganda to encourage women to continue being awful to men and even other women.
Kingpin in daredevil was such a strong/disturbing character. It's such a shame to see that pretty much wasted
I think the writers copied Rise of Skywalker where Rey is "all of the Jedi", Palp is "all of the Sith" when they both fight. Here, Maya's power when she beat Kingpin is like "I'm all of my ancestors".
It is stupid they didn't stick to the comics.
We need a meme of Wilson Fisk smashing igers head in an suv door
"YOU EMBARASSED ME!!!"
I agree with you completely. I expected something more like the punisher, a violent but incredibly grounded story that completely humanizes the character on a bunch of levels. I got nothing I wanted, it felt like secret invasion in so many ways. It feels like they lied to us.. the best quote"I'd describe myself as a big fan" what a great way to convincingly say that lady, that was painful
In movies and tv series there has always been the concept of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd act! The problem with todays movies and serialized shows is that they over extend the 1st act, minimize the impact of the 2nd act and reduce the 3rd act to: Look how great our heroes are, no one can stop them! That's why people feel so disconnected and bored! Add the cameos and bad writing and you have a recipe for disaster!
To the people who are still sane, do you believe that bad media is a sign that we are becoming a dystopia or that there are more conservatives/irresponsible writers than libertarian/responsible writers
Here’s a quick and simple test to that will help you discover if your a conservative or a libertarian: how do you feel when someone says, With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
@@uria3679some bad media (you don't like) is definitely not the sign of the incoming dystopic world order.
@@uria3679 Can you add the definitions for conservative and libertarian that you're connecting to irresponsible and responsible? And please add what are you basing those conclusions on?
@@Trabunkleno, they can't, lmao
@@uria3679 you’re absolutely a troll. There’s no way a sane person believes that Hollywood and Disney are too conservative. lol.
"Hastily sketched outline" is Disney's MO. There's a few outliers, but they're the exceptions to the rule.
The Sequel trilogy is proof of that in any case. I wonder how many more there are that we may never know.
I feel nothing but sympathy for Vincent he deserves better
Maya when she onscreen: 😠
bruh 😂
I didn’t wana say it but her 😠 actually pisses me off
I will translate for poor Vincent "they assassinated my character"
I’m glad they didn’t kill off Fisk at least. I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed how she endangered everyone around her and was very short sighted to see the least
This is literally the only channel on youtube that understood Maya couldn't hear the interpreter get shot, everybody else thinks she just purposefully ignored it. At least criticize based on whats actually happening yknow
Thank you
0:11 man he can't even attempt to spin it positively. Too sad man
Right he doesn't regularly shit in series. However this deserves it in tens
Ah yes that tends to happen when the RUclipsr disingenuously takes a clip of an interview heavily out of situ to present a narrative.
@@TheAesir7160 there were multiple clips but moving on
@@TheAesir7160 out of respect for this channel I won't argue with you
@@TheAesir7160it sounds like he knows its bad lol
They did it with Moon Knight, They did It With Echo & I have no doubts they will do it with DD
*Disney hates so much Street Level grounded Heroes & refuses to write them in that way*
That's why they keep adding so awful powers the characters didn't have in the comics
I can't wait until DD says, I now have all the powers of all the Daredevils before me. I am all of the Daredevils.
I’m a member of the Choctaw nation of Oklahoma. I was more than disappointed in this show. There was so much missed opportunity of world building and heritage explanation in the Native American perspective. Most of all the female lead is just bad. That smug look of hers is really off putting
Maya can technically beat Thanos now. All he has to do is get over the loss of his family and planet.
The grandma also can 😂
If Maya had been there, Thanos never would've been able to snap. She would've channeled her vast "woman powers..?" and she'd beat him.
Eric Cartman: CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!!
I really enjoy your takes because while I knew this wa trash from other channels (nerdrotic, Midnight's Edge, and the like) your reviews try to atay unbiased even when your contempt for the product shows in your tone of voice.
Why are those channels still on here anyway despite there almost blatant racism?
@@michaelknox3715 Why are you still on this Earth despite your obviously blatant meaninglessness?
@@michaelknox3715it’s called a joke, and they do it to filter outrage babies like yourself…
Hard to claim isms when they’ve regularly had a diverse panel of guests, and have praised well-written stories about people of color, women, etc.
@@michaelknox3715 Please actually elaborate, what racism?
@@michaelknox3715Stop using that word when you don’t understand how to use it, nor know what it means. You’re part of the problem of western society right now.
Thank you for the coverage
Any time!
When representation is the only thing you care about you get crappy product. Its such a shame
Adore this channel
Such quality & time & research (I've rewatched your Hellboy vids so many times)
&
Kinda unrelated thing but those lazy ai read shorts where they summarize the events in films & comics used to be a guilty pleasure of mine but you!
You make good stuff
I don't feel guilty, It's just a pleasure!
I went in knowing nothing about this character, and I liked it. My only concern is Maya's plot armor.
How did she not get killed by gunfire?
Want to fix the MCU disney shows? Hire Drew Goddard to come back as a show runner. Disney needs to adopt proper quality and management control that you see in other networks.
That may definitely help. There seems to be a lack of focus. I seen it elsewhere there seems to be so much first act build up, not enough act 2 and a rushed 3 Rd that is heavy on action. Titans on Max was the same until the last season.
That Hans Gruber bit at the end had me in stitches 😂
It sucks because she is my favorite female superhero and the message in David Mack's story Echo: Vision Quest was profoundly powerful and changed me for the better in some ways. I wish they just stuck to her original power which is like Taskmaster, and went all avant-garde and did the Vision Quest storyline.
'It's like Marvel's Infinity War didn't just wipe out half the universe, but also all of their competent writers...'
OUCH.
When FIlmComicsExplained comes out with a critique on a show like this, you know things are bad at Disney.
It seems a common theme that Disney directors/writers just don't respect or outright don't care about any source material of the subject of a movie/tv show they are making.
I think one of the biggest problems with this show and Marvel, in general, is that they keep trying to make shows and movies about characters that no one really liked in the first place. I love comics and I had never even heard of Echo until the Hawkeye series. Same thing with Kamala Khan and that other lady from The Marvels that I never bothered to learn the name of.
of course they do. in 2020 and onward the entire world is apparently female and men's only role in society and media is either to get their asses kicked by women or to take a backseat to a bunch of female characters. it doesnt matter how little interest people have in the shows, its all about glorifying women! women women women !!1!
I was so disappointed that the episodes were not longer. Also, where was that badass from Hawkeye? I expected to see more of how she became who she is and her extended family. By the way, Bravo to the child actress playing her in flashbacks.
And yes, you could tell there were re-shoots based on the fullness of her face in several scenes.
Wym fullness of her face?
@eden20111 When doing action roles, it is normal to be leaner and on a certain exercise and diet regimen due to long work hours. When called back a couple months into post production for re-shoots it shows if body weight is up or down 15 to 20 lbs. Especially in the face. Just normal.
@@eden20111 She was pregnant. She just had the baby in October.
5:35 I got really pissed off when you said that 😂
But, we don't want digestible, we want super heroes. I like The Marvels, laughed and snorted right out loud more than once. But Echo, I don't see anything to like. She made her bed when she hooked up with Fisk for years, doing his dirty work. Now she has to lie in it. There is nothing likeable about her.
Can I have Daredevil back? Hawkeye? Wanda? Let's have some fun.
This is why you can’t eat at everybody’s house😂
@filmcomicsexplained I appreciate every review of series and most of all you being critical when it’s needed.
The pacing of the show was also ruined by how repetitive the scenes with sign language played out. The hearing characters would sign so slowly while translating their sentences out loud deadpan. It made both the spoken dialog and the ASL slow and unnatural, over and over. Compare that to the episode of The Last of Us with ASL. The showrunners for Echo should have either embraced Maya's lip reading skills from the comics or hired a better ASL tutor on set.
To quote WaterWorld: “it looks like shit”
The lead has the charisma of a rock. Her acting is just RBF. No one asked for this character to have her own show
Hi Film, I knew it would. Thanks for the validation😉
Kingpin vs. punishment was pretty dope.
I'm just hoping that when upcoming shows delve into the upcoming Mayor Fisk arc, that they start to repair the damage this show caused. If they go with giving Kingpin access to the Purple Man's powers, they can easily bring back a proper, chilling character.
Bro this man is like one of the best and most underrated RUclipsrs. He actually doesn’t even base ideology he just simply states how the film failed to convey what it was trying to do
My main problem with echo is that they really just made their own original character and slapped. It already established character's name on it. They changed her back story for the most part. They changed who she really is at the core of herself from the comics. This is not maya Lopez echo I mean for fuck's sake her original powers were like taskmaster. She could repeat fighting styles and moves that she's seen. That's why her name was echo
You know
I might just be okay with them having had a new daredevil and kingpin and leaving the Netflix ones as a separate thing if it meant not having them in this
Makes me wonder how they will screw up punisher
Vincent was trying so hard to say it without saying it lmao
Love your breakdowns, man.
You nailed it here.
I just want to know if she's going to be the new Pheonix on screen or in the movies. That's all I wanna know.
Hey we just got the rights to Fantastic Four, the X-Men, and Daredevil. We hear you and we know what you want. Here’s Echo!!!
The only question I have is why didn’t they give maya a bionic leg like the one winter soldier has?
cos the show is about reflecting our real world instead of the mcu they wanna hammer in the disability , just as how they try to show falcon is broke cos he is black and racism, Something that makes no sense in the MCU itself
Because she’s never been to Wakanda, never been a Soviet Soldier, and is a low level henchwoman for Fisk. He’s not going to put that kind of money into her.
@@wyldewoodcellarswinery Misty Knight is a regular cop and they gave her a robot arm, Kingpin is in the same continuity as her, you telling me that Kingpin who's a Multi-Millionaire can't get a leg?
@@maylabrown4584exactly lol
@@maylabrown4584 Misty got that arm as a gift from danny rand since it was created by his company.
Let’s pray that someone in charge sees some of your videos and they hire you to consult, maybe then we could stories worthy of all the original work put into these characters and stories. The actors could have something exciting to work with.
don't kid yourself the women who made this garbage aren't the type of women who know how to take criticism. they'd never watch videos that aren't overwhelmingly positive about their work
Remember brutal heartless kingpin?
I memba :(
All I heard when Vincent was speaking is "I had to do the best with what I could with a shit script."
I watched Echo extremely late, but I appreciate that this video is objective and professional; it took way to long to find a review video that didn't make crude and offensive jokes.
It's a shame what happened with this show - I was hoping for it to be good. Marvel was trying to do way too much and even just watching the first episode, I found myself wishing that they chose to first show her activities within the Kingpin's ranks with this season and then potentially redeem her over a very long period of time, ideally using one or two subsequent seasons to do so. There was a lot they could have done to explore aspects of Echo's character, but I fear we'll never see what could have been
2:40
They way you said that line tells me you aren't aware. Half of them did leave. I tried looking it up but I do remember reading somewhere that they left because they couldn't compete with Thanos.
God. Leaving Netflix has been TERRIBLE for the Daredevil characters! Like, I was all about waiting for the next phase for the Daredevil series, seeing how it will intertwine with Marvel but GD, I am so over this bs. It's so so unfortunate, cos The Daredevil saga was the only thing I was looking forward to in the next phase
The only good thing, we may get out of this is, Mayor Fisk.
I keep forgetting how Vincent's voice sounds irl.
Can't find where but I read that Echo don't use ASL but version created by show runners.
Poor vincent😢
What about the Blackfoot straight up?
They were also called black feet.
We straight up Gave Lewis and Clark the rights to rights to travel through our lands.
And then they fucked us over in the end
It sucks the Kingpin and daredevil being reduced to comedic version of themselves basically a relative unknown over two legacy characters lol
Netflix needs to definitely get their shows back! 💯 Disney might get desperate enough to let them rent them back in exchange for checks in the mail like before. By the way, Disney can keep that Echo trash.
🎶 Hello darkness my old friend 🎶
Even Filmsandcomics explained couldn't hold back
Welcome to the era of the heroine's journey. We've replaced the struggle of a hero growing and overcoming adversity with petulant and entitled people that come across more as bullies because they always seem to be stuck fighting people much weaker than them and are solely focused on themselves. Gone are improvement and growth and compassion and heroism.
She defeated Fisk with the power of love …. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I had no desire to even watch the series before watching this.
Echo was fine in essence, it just had absolutely horrible structuring and overall planning.
I'm almost 100% sure that you will have the same thoughts on Echo that I did. Most the events weren't necessarily bad, forgoing sporadic events that feel unrelated and disjointed in the first episode recap, random flashback including Daredevil to pop the audience, Native American legends that feel no correlation to Echo's current situation, random misplaced family drama that was supposed to be a mirror of Fisk and what he's taken from Maya only to feel like a disservice to the story because it was rushed. Maya developing a cluster of powers that were hinted to but weren't explained, Fisk surviving a gunshot to the GOD DAMN HEAD and Fisk once again losing in the MCU.
Wilson Fisk is now a clear member of the Kang Dynasty, continuing to take Ls that serve as a detriment for his threat level.
Each negative part that I've mentioned about the show, I actually LOVED! Echo in particular gaining powers that Echo between her ancestors is actually beautiful. What ruined this show is that it was so underdeveloped and rushed to the point it felt like the showrunners just gathered EVERY positive aspect of 2 or 3 planned seasons and told their editors to smoosh together something that tells something resembling a coherent story.
Echo just needed more time to develop and stew, I loved learning about her family and it kept me intrigued until they jumped the shark and felt like Maya went through an entire character Arc within the scene cut.
And I am Native American, so the current Native American love and representation that Marvel has given us is AMAZING! I just wish they had done Echo properly and given the show the time it deserved.
People have survived shots to the head; it’s not common, but it happens. It just depends on where.
It's part of the reason that suicides by guns don't have a perfect mortality rate. Even shotguns can fail, which is pretty horrifying.
Overall it's not too big of a leap in a world with crazy tech, like nanotechnology.
@@Dokkoboexactly. And this is the same Wilson Fisk that survived numerous arrows to his body and being hit by a car. If I'm not mistaken, him surviving the gunshot was straight from the comics. This all still presents him as a menacing presence in the MCU
Look at The Ancient Enemy from The Phantoms.
A series about a deaf protagonist, made by a company deaf to the concerns about the direction they're moving to an audience that is tired of hearing the stories they tell.
They nurfed king pin. 😂
First to comment. I am going to keep asking. Pls do a video on Grave Encounters.
Never mind that. My bad
Its on the list Samuel
Thank you. I’m sorry I keep asking over and over again
@@filmcomicsexplained sorry I keep asking over and over again thank you
Who knew a f -art could make an echo
So where was she in daredevil or punisher?
This reminda me of the saying:
"A camel is actually a horse when it's made by a committee"
man they even made your explanation to the show confusing god damn
"It's not about the money, it's about sending the message."
Why do they always show Tribal American men with long hair and clean shaven? I'm sure they're probably like that among some tribal communities but they're definitely not all like that.
I went to the Rose Bud Indian Reservation in South Dakota and the men their cut their hair short and many had facial hair too.
Another well written video from one of RUclips’s most bangin OG’s! It’d be sick if you covered the spirit world from the last airbender, like Ko, Tui and La
The mother of faces, Iroh, wan shi tong.
Echo's comic powers don't sufficiently differentiate her from Taskmaster, so I wouldn't want to go with that, either. And if you are going to do more authentic Choctaw representation, it totally makes sense to make the powers bridge to that.
There's definitely a lot to dislike about the writing - this really feels like writing by committee - and it left me going "okay, but why do I care about Echo?". I was just left disinterested.
I agree on what they were trying to do, they just failed to do it well.
They did exactly what they set out to do. Push the narrative. Nothing more, nothing less.
Who'd have thought that The Big Bang Theory's Mayim Bialik would be such a kick-ass action hero? Once I spotted the similarity, I couldn't NOT see it.
Yeah we don't have to see this character ever again.
When you get asked a question and you die inside.
I enjoyed the show and I do not agree with the narrative being described here. However, to each their own; I'm sure there's something out there you'll enjoy
Poor donofrio
From kubrick to crap
This show is so pathetic it’s heavily reliant on cameos from better characters just to have some semblance of legitimacy
What fucking cameos? Oh… the singular one at the very beginning, how unforgivable!
@@TheAesir7160facts. As I understand it, Kingpin is central to Maya's story in the comics. That's not a cameo, that's a 'supporting role'. And seeing Charlie Cox's Daredevil, even if just for a few minutes, is just a bonus in what is meant to be a proper intro of Maya and Fisk into the MCU
You mean Echo is...BAD...bad...bad...bad
Yooo We outside!
Not to mention the main actress switches between thin and fat every other scene so you can tell which scenes were reshoots
Something about marvels fight scenes seems off now.. empty. You know how props are lighter than their real world counterparts? Like a hammer used in a fight scene is rubber and weighs about a pound so if someone got hit it wouldnt kill them. Its up to the actor swinging and the actor getting hit to sell the weight of the hammer, it should look heavier than it really is for the actor because we know how much a hammer should weigh. It looks really silly when people throw boulders like theyre made of styrofoam, even if they are made of styrofoam, it takes the magic away.
Im not awesome at explaining thing but I hope this makes sense: Marvel fight scenes all feel like theyre throwing styrofoam at times. Like they forgot to pretend the hammer weighs more than a pound. And im noticing.
I have to service the story, I have to do my best to make the story work.
Last thing you want to hear from your actors
My girlfriend was watching this TV show on Netflix. I had no desire to watch this thing, it just doesn't sit right with me.
Do the Sandman comic series.
Love the video Can you do Department of Mysteries and Azkaban from Harry Potter
Ive yet to feel like this channel has had a bad take
Spot on time after time